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Paramedics told nearest back-up crew couldn't be called to help girl, 9 - because they were on a rest-break (From Bournemouth Echo)
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Paramedics told nearest back-up crew couldn't be called to help girl, 9 - because they were on a rest-break
8:20am Wednesday 14th October 2009
PARAMEDICS fighting to save a nine-year-old road accident victim were told rigid rest-break regulations meant the closest crew could not be called upon for back-up.
Lifesavers at a crash scene in Upton were told they would have to wait for a crew nearly 20 minutes away because paramedics in Poole still had a few minutes left on their break.
Ambulance staff treating little Bethany Dibbs then called Poole ambulance station directly. A second crew abandoned their break and raced to Sandy Lane, arriving just five minutes after their colleagues.
The incident has drawn criticism from paramedics to politicians of a system drawn up by NHS managers and agreed by union bosses.
A paramedic, who asked not be named, said: “It’s the way things are going. Things are happening just down the road and they are not sending the nearest crew.
“There is not one member of the ambulance service who would not go, but we have to be given two 30-minute meal breaks and we can’t be interrupted. It’s just a joke.”
But the South Western Ambulance Service Trust is standing by its decision. A spokesperson said the trust took its statutory health and safety duties for all staff very seriously.
“In line with national guidelines negotiated and agreed by Unison, which must be adhered to by all ambulance trusts nationally under the Agenda for Change scheme, it is important that all staff have dedicated 30 minute rest breaks, which cannot be interrupted.
“Absolutely no mistake was made in this case and regardless of whether or not a crew was on a rest-break, the trust is confident that the first crew on scene had adequate clinical skills to treat the patient and convey them quickly and safely to Poole General Hospital.”
Poole MP, Robert Syms, a member of the House of Commons select committee on health, slammed the system governing paramedics’ rest breaks for failing to use valuable people and vehicles to maximum effect.
“I don’t think it's beyond the wit of man for a crew that finishes their lunch break early to catch up a bit later. The nature of emergency work is that it's 90 per cent waiting and 10 per cent running around.
“The local crews would have been happy to do it,” said Mr Syms. “I think it says something about how rigid and unimaginative the unions and management have been. It seems to me a perfect example of a regulation that ought to be looked at again.”
Joanne Kaye-Smith, the regional manager for public services union, Unison, acknowledged a national agreement on rest breaks.
“However as professionals dealing with emergencies, we know that our members will always be willing to be flexible and to put patient safety first,” said Ms Kaye-Smith.
l Bethany has since staged a strong recovery from a fractured skull and has been released from the paediatric intensive care unit at Southa-mpton Hospital, where she was transferred from Poole.
Police are calling for witnesses to the collision, which happened at 5.15pm last Thursday at the junction of Sandy Lane and Blandford Road, and involved a red Toyota car.
Anyone with information, should call Dorset Police on 01202 222222.
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Your Say YourEcho
D999, Verwood says...
9:21am Wed 14 Oct 09
GB916, christchurch says...
9:32am Wed 14 Oct 09
Nickolai, Bournemouth says...
9:36am Wed 14 Oct 09
Pity that comes first, rather than treating a member of the public just down the road.
Classic management/union jobsworth, i'm alright , Jack mentality.
gordonfong, Southbourne says...
10:37am Wed 14 Oct 09
Health sector workers most likely feel a moral obligation themselves by choosing to work in that area but the wider audience seems to dictate a greater moral obligation onto them.
For some the luxury of an undisturbed break would be a godsend. Those that do uphold their moral obligation beyond the call put in so much time that is not seen nor accounted for.
People talk about being PC and jobsworth but I think this goes against the spirit of the people involved.
To change the system will take more that just a few extra people here and there, especially not to the levels of service that is demanded.
djd, bournemouth says...
11:07am Wed 14 Oct 09
Last week I read that the Health & Safety Executive would not prosecute police officers if they broke H & S rules in an emergency and whilst saving lives.
It seems that there has to be rules for every eventuality in life. Common sense has gone out the window.
Good of them, isn't it ????
djd, bournemouth says...
11:24am Wed 14 Oct 09
As always, it's the people whose needs are most urgent who suffer.
Perihelion, Bournemouth says...
12:45pm Wed 14 Oct 09
sorrowglance, southbourne says...
2:05pm Wed 14 Oct 09
s have slightly more "skills" to perform on trauma patients where technicians haven't,when crews get sent to cardiac arrests you'll sometimes see two crews attend as an extra pair of hands are always helpful,glad to know bethany is ok.
CoogarUK.com, Dorchester says...
3:08pm Wed 14 Oct 09
djd, bournemouth says...
3:25pm Wed 14 Oct 09
People are having a go at the system which has no 'give & take' in it.
rainbowkisses, Bournemouth says...
3:37pm Wed 14 Oct 09
gerbil112, Poole says...
5:06pm Wed 14 Oct 09
I believe that Mr Symes may be talking about the Fire Service or Coastguard when he makes such a sweeping statement. The Ambulance Service work/rest ratio is the exact opposite to this! I suggest that the Echo request incident statistics from all the Emergency Services and then ask Mr Symes to quantify his statement.
pd7, Dorset says...
5:28pm Wed 14 Oct 09
Bob49, Bournemouth says...
5:41pm Wed 14 Oct 09
No, an all too predictable bleat from the 'political correctness gone mad brigade'. Nothing can be spared from the witless squeaks of these characters. Maybe if a few got their heads out of the Daily Mail for a few minutes they might just grasp how the rest of the populace works. Try dealing with an insurance claim when it's found that some regulation has not been adhered to,. Try finding out how much has been paid out by tax payers in supposed 'negligence' claims - any wonder so many are forced to protect themselves. Sadly, as this thread proves, there are plenty on here who would have them bleed out more.
fedupwithjobsworths, Moordown says...
7:39pm Wed 14 Oct 09
rainbowkisses, Bournemouth says...
9:13pm Wed 14 Oct 09
Bob49 wrote:Wonder if you would be saying the same thing if a you were having a heart attack, with an ambulance crew sat outside you house on a break, to get told it will be 10/20 mins for an ambulance to reach you? I still don't understand how you speak for "the rest of the populace." Are you somebody important? To run other people down because they have a different attitude to you, says more about you then them.
"A prime example of the PC brigade"
No, an all too predictable bleat from the 'political correctness gone mad brigade'. Nothing can be spared from the witless squeaks of these characters. Maybe if a few got their heads out of the Daily Mail for a few minutes they might just grasp how the rest of the populace works. Try dealing with an insurance claim when it's found that some regulation has not been adhered to,. Try finding out how much has been paid out by tax payers in supposed 'negligence' claims - any wonder so many are forced to protect themselves. Sadly, as this thread proves, there are plenty on here who would have them bleed out more.
TotalEclipse, Hampshire says...
9:43pm Wed 14 Oct 09
The first point I'd like to make is every resident and visitor to Dorset is being served by the best ambulance service in the COUNTRY...something that the Echo negate to mention (because it wouldn't make for such great reading) and something that is proved by statistics. This is a service that works incredibly hard to maintain the standards and targets set by the powers that be, and works even harder to achieve the expectations of the public. Crews and staff are looked after, however there has to be a line drawn somewhere in order to do this and one of those lines is with regards to rest breaks. Most of the time the rest break policy works, however there are bound to be times when this particular policy clashes with the emergency at hand...life isn't perfect and unfortunately on this occasion the clash involved the response to a child.
In response to the comment about 'taking part of a break and finishing it later', that indeed is how breaks used to operate - however once a break was interrupted, not least did it cost the tax payer more money because crews would have to be paid for the interruption, but it also usually meant that later on in the day they would still not be available to respond at some point...how far do we have to take this? The rest break policy was bought in to put things back on an even keel and to give crews the necessary rest their jobs demand...and mainly because the old way of working WASN'T working.
H&S has to come first - can you picture the senario if a crew were denied their break to attend 'just one more job' and the driver of that vehicle had an accident of their own due to not having had the adequate rest needed to perform their duties to the optimum? Or a mistake was made giving incorrect drugs because of tiredness? Not something anyone would want to contemplate, which is why they HAVE to take breaks...regardless of the next emergency on it's way to them.
idjut, Christchurch says...
10:55pm Wed 14 Oct 09
chris124, bournemouth says...
7:32am Thu 15 Oct 09
gordonfong, Southbourne says...
10:32am Thu 15 Oct 09
I think it is ultimately down to us as people/society because of what we demand and what we are prepared to fund.
My wife regularly ends up doing shifts of 12 or more hours at the hospital due to her professional and moral obligation. Whilst at the supermarkets I hear people constantly complain about their breaks and the minutest of things, relatively to what other people have to deal with. Sh*t happens all the time at hospitals so there is always something that people could not walk away from, but sometimes they just have to.
We are very demanded people, but how far are we willing to fund the resourcing of these services and also how far are we prepared to really give the systems a good shakeout to remove the detritus that has built up over time?
We focussing on one particular facet with this news item but it is a wider issue that affects so many different areas.
I am bored of the PC, fat cats kind of arguments as it is too easy to make those and not go beyond.
TotalEclipse, Hampshire says...
9:27pm Thu 15 Oct 09
Chris124 - I'm not an idiot - there was also no need for you to be rude either. I was merely stating the way things are. Of course none of us would like it if it happened to our little ones and it goes without saying that we would want the fastest response possible whenever an emergency happens - I'm not disputing that at all.
The management and the unions have already made changes to an already dire situation and one of these changes happened to be the current rest break policy. It is imperative the crews get adequate rest...I certainly wasn't implying that the decision is the best one, just the best one that has been presented so far and therefore it has to be adhered to until an alternative solution is found. There is absolutely nothing gained from slagging off someone who is telling it like it is...that same person being the one who wants to keep patient care to an optimum and keep the crews safe at the same time.
mikeh2000, says...
3:41pm Mon 19 Oct 09
As we've been told; "You're entitled to a break, but it's up to you whether you have it."
Incidently the longest I've gone without a break was from 7 in the morning to 10 at night when I finished, and the only grub I had was a taek-away at 8 that night, which someone else brought in for me as I was stuck at a computer desperately trying to finish paperwork off so I could go home; it was my fault though for nicking a drug dealer!
MAKING A MEAL OF IT: Paramedics treating Bethany Dibbs were told the nearest crew needed for back-up couldn't have their break interrupted
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ben111, Ringwood says...
8:52am Wed 14 Oct 09