New firm to address council over Bournemouth’s Winter Gardens

PLANNING BID: The Winter Gardens

PLANNING BID: An artist’s impression of the previous proposals for the Winter Gardens which were refused last year

Planning chairman Cllr David Kelsey

First published in News
Last updated
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NEW proposals for Bournemouth’s Winter Gardens site will be unveiled to councillors tomorrow.

Representatives from developer Inland Homes will appear before the council’s planning board to make a 10-minute presentation before they submit a new planning application.

It is understood they want to see if there are any changes that could be made to the previous Winter Gardens planning application that would ease the council’s concerns.

The previous application, submitted by APB Park and Anthony P Bond, sought permission for a £150million hotel, apartment and leisure complex.

It was thrown out by the planning board in June last year.

This is now the subject of a planning appeal, which is due to be heard on June 24.

Inland Homes is based in Buckinghamshire and specialises in brownfield developments.

It describes itself as a “dynamic developer of urban regeneration projects around southern England”.

The company’s planning agent is Gregory Gray, of Gregory Gray Associates Chartered Town Planning Consultants, in Fleet, Hampshire.

The main Winter Gardens site, which is currently used as a car park, is owned by Bournemouth council. The Bournemouth Development Company, a partnership between the council and developer Morgan Sindall, has already said it may seek to submit its own plans for the prime town centre site.

Those plans are expected to be put forward during this financial year.

In its business plan, the site is earmarked for a mix of leisure, cultural, entertainment and residential uses, along with a 400-space public car park.

Planning chairman Cllr David Kelsey said: “All I know is that they want to come in and do a presentation to say what they’re going to be bringing to the board later on in the year. I think all they want to do is come in and tell us that they plan to make some changes to the plans that were refused.”

Comments (16)

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7:36am Tue 22 Apr 14

Gastines3 says...

It would make a series for TV. The saga of The Winter Gardens ,how many years?
It would be interesting to know the increase in building costs while the numerous schemes have been turned down by our 'Leaders'
It would make a series for TV. The saga of The Winter Gardens ,how many years? It would be interesting to know the increase in building costs while the numerous schemes have been turned down by our 'Leaders' Gastines3
  • Score: 8

7:52am Tue 22 Apr 14

billy bumble says...

Gastines3 wrote:
It would make a series for TV. The saga of The Winter Gardens ,how many years?
It would be interesting to know the increase in building costs while the numerous schemes have been turned down by our 'Leaders'
Well there is a clue in the report as to why they have all been turned down
[quote][p][bold]Gastines3[/bold] wrote: It would make a series for TV. The saga of The Winter Gardens ,how many years? It would be interesting to know the increase in building costs while the numerous schemes have been turned down by our 'Leaders'[/p][/quote]Well there is a clue in the report as to why they have all been turned down billy bumble
  • Score: 6

8:06am Tue 22 Apr 14

Gastines3 says...

Billy Bumble.I presume the clue is"Owned by the Council plus the words 'Morgan Sindall'.Perhaps they are working out the best deal for the local Council Tax payer as in Leybourne House?
Billy Bumble.I presume the clue is"Owned by the Council plus the words 'Morgan Sindall'.Perhaps they are working out the best deal for the local Council Tax payer as in Leybourne House? Gastines3
  • Score: 5

8:46am Tue 22 Apr 14

susi.m says...

The Winter Gardens carpark is often full or pretty much full during Xmas period, busy Saturdays and summer periods. Where does the council propose that all these people, which are crucial to the shops in the town and the sea front etc, park in the future?
The Winter Gardens carpark is often full or pretty much full during Xmas period, busy Saturdays and summer periods. Where does the council propose that all these people, which are crucial to the shops in the town and the sea front etc, park in the future? susi.m
  • Score: 0

9:06am Tue 22 Apr 14

TheDistrict says...

susi.m wrote:
The Winter Gardens carpark is often full or pretty much full during Xmas period, busy Saturdays and summer periods. Where does the council propose that all these people, which are crucial to the shops in the town and the sea front etc, park in the future?
In the proposed planning, 400+ car park................
......there has to be a car park whoever plan wins.
[quote][p][bold]susi.m[/bold] wrote: The Winter Gardens carpark is often full or pretty much full during Xmas period, busy Saturdays and summer periods. Where does the council propose that all these people, which are crucial to the shops in the town and the sea front etc, park in the future?[/p][/quote]In the proposed planning, 400+ car park................ ......there has to be a car park whoever plan wins. TheDistrict
  • Score: 13

10:29am Tue 22 Apr 14

speedy231278 says...

Clearly the site is being targeted as yet another one for the Bournemouth Building Company, whose board consists of Bournemouth Council members and Morgan Sindall directors. Odd then, that Morgan Sindall always get the building contracts and it's always on car parks....
Clearly the site is being targeted as yet another one for the Bournemouth Building Company, whose board consists of Bournemouth Council members and Morgan Sindall directors. Odd then, that Morgan Sindall always get the building contracts and it's always on car parks.... speedy231278
  • Score: 15

12:10pm Tue 22 Apr 14

muscliffman says...

Gastines3 wrote:
It would make a series for TV. The saga of The Winter Gardens ,how many years?
It would be interesting to know the increase in building costs while the numerous schemes have been turned down by our 'Leaders'
Perhaps best to look across Exeter Road from this site to answer your question - thirty-seven years and still waiting!

However we should probably all look far more closely at the rather too cosy relationships which seem to have evolved between some Bournemouth Council members/officers and certain private developers, it all seems a little 'unhealthy', to put it mildly.
[quote][p][bold]Gastines3[/bold] wrote: It would make a series for TV. The saga of The Winter Gardens ,how many years? It would be interesting to know the increase in building costs while the numerous schemes have been turned down by our 'Leaders'[/p][/quote]Perhaps best to look across Exeter Road from this site to answer your question - thirty-seven years and still waiting! However we should probably all look far more closely at the rather too cosy relationships which seem to have evolved between some Bournemouth Council members/officers and certain private developers, it all seems a little 'unhealthy', to put it mildly. muscliffman
  • Score: 10

12:21pm Tue 22 Apr 14

BmthNewshound says...

The fact that The Bournemouth Development Company is only thinking of submitting its own plans shows what a complete what a complete shambles Beesleys town centre vision really is - there is no vision just a desire to line the pockets of property developers.
.
Originally the plan was to replace the Winter Gardens with a new arts centre, that idea was scapped, next the site was earmarked for a much needed all weather visitor attraction, that has been scrapped. Now it seems destined to become more flats which will mostly be second homes and buy-to-lets because local people will not be able to afford them.
.
So far Beesley's town centre vision has resulted in hundreds of new student flats, a multi-storey car park in a part of town where one is not needed, a block of flats at Leyton Mount, which the Council had to fund because no private developer was interested. We have two cinema/restaurant plans which appear to be going no where. The plans for Richmond Hill car park appear to have been shelved.
.
Its time to tear up Beesley's vision, scrap The Bournemouth Development Company and start with a clean sheet of paper and come up with a realistic regeneration programme which benefits local residents and businesses and secures the town future. Bournemouth has the potential to be a successful and vibrant town but not if it continues to pursue Beesleys flawed vision.
The fact that The Bournemouth Development Company is only thinking of submitting its own plans shows what a complete what a complete shambles Beesleys town centre vision really is - there is no vision just a desire to line the pockets of property developers. . Originally the plan was to replace the Winter Gardens with a new arts centre, that idea was scapped, next the site was earmarked for a much needed all weather visitor attraction, that has been scrapped. Now it seems destined to become more flats which will mostly be second homes and buy-to-lets because local people will not be able to afford them. . So far Beesley's town centre vision has resulted in hundreds of new student flats, a multi-storey car park in a part of town where one is not needed, a block of flats at Leyton Mount, which the Council had to fund because no private developer was interested. We have two cinema/restaurant plans which appear to be going no where. The plans for Richmond Hill car park appear to have been shelved. . Its time to tear up Beesley's vision, scrap The Bournemouth Development Company and start with a clean sheet of paper and come up with a realistic regeneration programme which benefits local residents and businesses and secures the town future. Bournemouth has the potential to be a successful and vibrant town but not if it continues to pursue Beesleys flawed vision. BmthNewshound
  • Score: 11

12:56pm Tue 22 Apr 14

BIGTONE says...

The magic phrase....."affordab
le homes included".....will unlock all the doors.
The magic phrase....."affordab le homes included".....will unlock all the doors. BIGTONE
  • Score: 5

12:56pm Tue 22 Apr 14

Bob49 says...

The bottom line is that the real money spinner is residential development ie cram in as many second homes as possible - and the only really large (and elatively cheap) sites are publically owned car parks. The further problem with this behaviour is that these schemes require some kind of cover story. Ice rink, cinemas, the new Sandbanks etc usually fool the not too bright.

However whilst there are certainly questions to be asked about publically owned assets being handed over to developers, there should also be concerns that the town, through these schems, is also being stripped of the facilities it needs.

A town that cannot even host it's own world reknown orchestra says much about the priorities of it's council .... and to some extent, it's residents. With it's extensive accomodation the town should be a mecca for music and artistic events, not competing to out slum down market resorts. If they have tacky, Bournemouth can be tackier so it would seem.

Sadly as long as we have a council made up of developers there is as much chance of the town moving towards excellence and re-positioning itself as a quality resort as a zoo surviving when it's being run and staffed by vultures and hyenas.
The bottom line is that the real money spinner is residential development ie cram in as many second homes as possible - and the only really large (and elatively cheap) sites are publically owned car parks. The further problem with this behaviour is that these schemes require some kind of cover story. Ice rink, cinemas, the new Sandbanks etc usually fool the not too bright. However whilst there are certainly questions to be asked about publically owned assets being handed over to developers, there should also be concerns that the town, through these schems, is also being stripped of the facilities it needs. A town that cannot even host it's own world reknown orchestra says much about the priorities of it's council .... and to some extent, it's residents. With it's extensive accomodation the town should be a mecca for music and artistic events, not competing to out slum down market resorts. If they have tacky, Bournemouth can be tackier so it would seem. Sadly as long as we have a council made up of developers there is as much chance of the town moving towards excellence and re-positioning itself as a quality resort as a zoo surviving when it's being run and staffed by vultures and hyenas. Bob49
  • Score: 1

1:13pm Tue 22 Apr 14

retrogeoff says...

Helpful reporting by the Daily Echo. Ref the artist's impression it struck me that this is a bog standard design concept that can be found all over the planet. Sometimes termed 'the School of Florida nerd'. Madeira has some of this as does much of Spain and Bulgaria. Rather crass jumbled planning over the past 50 years has guaranteed the town has almost lost its Bournemouth look. I suggest that those involved in the process pick out the respected character buildings in the town and ask for plans which relate/connect to them. Try to build in some in some harmony. Winton (Wimborne Road) is probably the classic example in this region of how not to pick and mix alien architecture. Tatty solutions now abound in all our once charming towns. A huge cultural loss to the UK generally, and Hampshire/Dorset in particular. Something is seriously wrong within the building design and development profession and government appears to have given up on standards and the built environment. Of course we, the general public, are only too aware that the scene is populated by rogues.
Helpful reporting by the Daily Echo. Ref the artist's impression it struck me that this is a bog standard design concept that can be found all over the planet. Sometimes termed 'the School of Florida nerd'. Madeira has some of this as does much of Spain and Bulgaria. Rather crass jumbled planning over the past 50 years has guaranteed the town has almost lost its Bournemouth look. I suggest that those involved in the process pick out the respected character buildings in the town and ask for plans which relate/connect to them. Try to build in some in some harmony. Winton (Wimborne Road) is probably the classic example in this region of how not to pick and mix alien architecture. Tatty solutions now abound in all our once charming towns. A huge cultural loss to the UK generally, and Hampshire/Dorset in particular. Something is seriously wrong within the building design and development profession and government appears to have given up on standards and the built environment. Of course we, the general public, are only too aware that the scene is populated by rogues. retrogeoff
  • Score: 7

2:12pm Tue 22 Apr 14

guisselle says...

Where is the Adonis of design and culture? Is he to be found in Boscombe
or perhaps methinks Bournemouth University of Art and design, pray we need
a saviour of sorts! Come let us kneel down and worship at the Town Hall
of planning! Our youngsters deserve a thriving Bournemouth Town!
Where is the Adonis of design and culture? Is he to be found in Boscombe or perhaps methinks Bournemouth University of Art and design, pray we need a saviour of sorts! Come let us kneel down and worship at the Town Hall of planning! Our youngsters deserve a thriving Bournemouth Town! guisselle
  • Score: 4

5:07pm Tue 22 Apr 14

dekayedcherry says...

What is the criterion for Bournemouth Council Planning Chairman Cllr. David Kelsey and his Planning Committee when it comes down to the development of the old Winter Gardens site ??. What exactly ARE they looking for to fill this site that once contained the FINEST acoustic CONCERT HALL in the SOUTH OF ENGLAND which the Council disgracefully let go to rack and ruin rather than pay the cost of renovating on an ongoing basis for the site to be used as a CAR PARK !!!.
True the Council did erect the BIC presumably to replace it and to suck up to the Conservatives and other Political Parties with it's Conference Facilities but neither the BIC or The Pavilion Theatre are an adequate replacement. However in this age of "Reality TV and Simon Cowell generated "Entertainment Shows" it is hardly surprising that the need for a Concert Hall that could house a full Symphony Orchestra of the size of the BSO is perhaps diminishing, along with the demand for any kind of variety show that used to be the staple diet of seaside resorts from Blackpool to Bournemouth.
Do we need another Hotel in Bournemouth which is full of Hotels charging perhaps inflated prices as most are only 3 star with a few 4 star quality ??. True we do not have any Luxury 5 star International Hotels in Bournemouth, perhaps we should have and like large Supermarkets,get them to pay for any environmental redevelopments needed to accommodate them.
Also the more flats the Council get built of course brings in more Council Tax and if high end 2nd homes or high end let properties, more revenue for the Council or am I being a "tad" suspicious here ??.

Whatever the outcome it will all come down to that famous Geoffrey Chaucer quote " The love of money is the root of all evil"
What is the criterion for Bournemouth Council Planning Chairman Cllr. David Kelsey and his Planning Committee when it comes down to the development of the old Winter Gardens site ??. What exactly ARE they looking for to fill this site that once contained the FINEST acoustic CONCERT HALL in the SOUTH OF ENGLAND which the Council disgracefully let go to rack and ruin rather than pay the cost of renovating on an ongoing basis for the site to be used as a CAR PARK !!!. True the Council did erect the BIC presumably to replace it and to suck up to the Conservatives and other Political Parties with it's Conference Facilities but neither the BIC or The Pavilion Theatre are an adequate replacement. However in this age of "Reality TV and Simon Cowell generated "Entertainment Shows" it is hardly surprising that the need for a Concert Hall that could house a full Symphony Orchestra of the size of the BSO is perhaps diminishing, along with the demand for any kind of variety show that used to be the staple diet of seaside resorts from Blackpool to Bournemouth. Do we need another Hotel in Bournemouth which is full of Hotels charging perhaps inflated prices as most are only 3 star with a few 4 star quality ??. True we do not have any Luxury 5 star International Hotels in Bournemouth, perhaps we should have and like large Supermarkets,get them to pay for any environmental redevelopments needed to accommodate them. Also the more flats the Council get built of course brings in more Council Tax and if high end 2nd homes or high end let properties, more revenue for the Council or am I being a "tad" suspicious here ??. Whatever the outcome it will all come down to that famous Geoffrey Chaucer quote " The love of money is the root of all evil" dekayedcherry
  • Score: 2

5:31pm Tue 22 Apr 14

Bob49 says...

"we do not have any Luxury 5 star International Hotels in Bournemouth "

maybe we should ask why there is no such hotel in Bournemouth first

perhaps it could be S&D Leisure's tacky seafront 'attractions, or the shanty town style grubby Xmas market - likewise the hordes of semi naked, pi ssed up stag and hens using the roadside gutter as a toilet who have contributed to the reason why such a hotel is no longer viable, or needed in the town

Bournemouth - the new Blackpool ... without the class
"we do not have any Luxury 5 star International Hotels in Bournemouth " maybe we should ask why there is no such hotel in Bournemouth first perhaps it could be S&D Leisure's tacky seafront 'attractions, or the shanty town style grubby Xmas market - likewise the hordes of semi naked, pi ssed up stag and hens using the roadside gutter as a toilet who have contributed to the reason why such a hotel is no longer viable, or needed in the town Bournemouth - the new Blackpool ... without the class Bob49
  • Score: 7

8:11pm Tue 22 Apr 14

kalebmoledirt says...

Bournemouth is classic end of the line town.Not a bad place to collect your benefits.buy drugs and get away with it .you just hope they get someone with a pair to reverse the trend of the town from being a dumping ground for the dross that have almost taken over what was a prosperous pleasant town.
Bournemouth is classic end of the line town.Not a bad place to collect your benefits.buy drugs and get away with it .you just hope they get someone with a pair to reverse the trend of the town from being a dumping ground for the dross that have almost taken over what was a prosperous pleasant town. kalebmoledirt
  • Score: 3

8:30pm Tue 22 Apr 14

kalebmoledirt says...

retrogeoff wrote:
Helpful reporting by the Daily Echo. Ref the artist's impression it struck me that this is a bog standard design concept that can be found all over the planet. Sometimes termed 'the School of Florida nerd'. Madeira has some of this as does much of Spain and Bulgaria. Rather crass jumbled planning over the past 50 years has guaranteed the town has almost lost its Bournemouth look. I suggest that those involved in the process pick out the respected character buildings in the town and ask for plans which relate/connect to them. Try to build in some in some harmony. Winton (Wimborne Road) is probably the classic example in this region of how not to pick and mix alien architecture. Tatty solutions now abound in all our once charming towns. A huge cultural loss to the UK generally, and Hampshire/Dorset in particular. Something is seriously wrong within the building design and development profession and government appears to have given up on standards and the built environment. Of course we, the general public, are only too aware that the scene is populated by rogues.
How dare you suggest that rogues are involved in the dynamics of planning the return of Bouremouth to the once elegant town it once was.
Just read your posting .perhaps your right .
Go for election .I'll vote for us
[quote][p][bold]retrogeoff[/bold] wrote: Helpful reporting by the Daily Echo. Ref the artist's impression it struck me that this is a bog standard design concept that can be found all over the planet. Sometimes termed 'the School of Florida nerd'. Madeira has some of this as does much of Spain and Bulgaria. Rather crass jumbled planning over the past 50 years has guaranteed the town has almost lost its Bournemouth look. I suggest that those involved in the process pick out the respected character buildings in the town and ask for plans which relate/connect to them. Try to build in some in some harmony. Winton (Wimborne Road) is probably the classic example in this region of how not to pick and mix alien architecture. Tatty solutions now abound in all our once charming towns. A huge cultural loss to the UK generally, and Hampshire/Dorset in particular. Something is seriously wrong within the building design and development profession and government appears to have given up on standards and the built environment. Of course we, the general public, are only too aware that the scene is populated by rogues.[/p][/quote]How dare you suggest that rogues are involved in the dynamics of planning the return of Bouremouth to the once elegant town it once was. Just read your posting .perhaps your right . Go for election .I'll vote for us kalebmoledirt
  • Score: 2

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