Dorset firefighters set to strike again on New Year's Eve

Bournemouth Echo: Dorset firefighters set to strike again on New Year's Eve Dorset firefighters set to strike again on New Year's Eve

FIREFIGHTERS in Dorset are set to walk out on strike again today and on Friday in their ongoing dispute over pension changes.

Crews will walk out from 6.30pm until 12.30am tonight and again between 6.30am and 8.30am on Friday.

Fire Brigades Union General Secretary, Matt Wrack, said: “Christmas is just an ordinary working time for firefighters, and our members have been on the front line dealing with storms, floods and other emergencies every day.

“None of us wanted these strikes, but firefighters on duty over the festive period don’t have much to celebrate this year as they are being priced out of their pensions and face the sack because the government’s can’t accept that 60 year old men and women can’t meet the same fitness standards as 20 year olds.

“We need to see genuine dialogue and real negotiations to resolve this dispute, so perhaps the prime minister would like to come along to visit firefighters on New Year’s Eve and hear directly why they are so angry?”

The union says most firefighters who take home approximately £1,650 a month already pay £320 or more a month into their pensions, and from April 2014 this would rise for the third year in a row to over £340 a month – £4,000 a year – with many facing a fourth consecutive rise of 2.2 per cent in 2015.

It also says that evidence suggests that at least two thirds of the current workforce could face either dismissal from the fire service or a reduction in their pensions of almost half because they are unable to maintain the fitness standards required by the fire service beyond the age of 55.

Karen Adams, Dorset FBU Secretary, said: “They have agreed to meet again early in the New Year. The point is to get back to the negotiating table. From our perspective we don’t want to go on strike and we hope something will come out of these talks.

“We’ve not met the Government since October but they did agree to meet us on Christmas Eve.

“We’re already going to concede a lot but what we cannot concede is that firefighters will have to work until they’re 60 and if they fail the fitness test they will be sacked.

“We’ve had fantastic support from the public.

“They can see that it’s about people protecting their livelihoods and we don’t think that the public wants a 60-year-old firefighter, I think people understand that.”

The union said that recent floods and storms highlighted the “valuable and wide-ranging” work that firefighters do – crews in Kent and Surrey returned to work during their Christmas strike.

Mr Wrack added: “The return of Kent and Surrey firefighters to work on Christmas Eve makes a mockery of claims made by a tiny minority of commentators that striking firefighters are ‘irresponsible’.

“Firefighters do not want to place the public at risk, and support on the picket lines suggests that the public understands that we cannot stand by and let this pension theft continue.

“It’s time the government came back with a realistic offer instead of the unworkable proposals they continue to peddle.”

Dorset Fire and Rescue Services will be providing a reduced emergency response service during the strike.

Darran Gunter, Chief Fire Officer, said: “While the industrial action is ongoing we will still be responding to 999 calls, but we are asking members of the public to take extra steps during the festive period, to reduce the risk of a fire breaking out in their home.

“At this time of year, the home can be full of fire hazards from decorations to cooking.

“The best advice we can give is for everyone to ensure they have a smoke alarm in their home and to check the battery is working at least once a week. Smoke detectors provide an early warning of a fire and can give occupants vital extra minutes to escape, especially at night. But a smoke alarm can only save your life if it is working and the battery is checked regularly.

“With family and friends visiting your home over the festive season too, it’s really important to ensure everyone knows how to escape in the event of a fire. Having an escape plan and making sure everyone staying in the house knows it might not be the most interesting topic of conversation this Christmas, but it could save lives.”

Hampshire Fire and Rescue Service have reminded residents to take extra care during their New Year's Eve celebrations tonight.

Assistant Chief Officer Bob Ratcliffe said: "We want everyone to have a fantastic New Year’s Eve but we also want the night to pass safely and for people to remember that there will be fewer firefighters and vehicles available to us during this strike period.”

He said: "We would reassure the public that if they call 999 during the strike hours, we will respond - but the response may have to come from further away and therefore may take a little longer to get there.

"To help all of us, please only consider picking up the phone in a genuine emergency so we can make full use of the resources available to us."

 

 

 

Comments (20)

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10:08am Tue 31 Dec 13

pete woodley says...

What goes around comes around.
What goes around comes around. pete woodley

10:19am Tue 31 Dec 13

Lord gungedin of Ferndown says...

Welcome to the real world.........hang on.......paid to go to sleep at night ....no not really, not yet!
Welcome to the real world.........hang on.......paid to go to sleep at night ....no not really, not yet! Lord gungedin of Ferndown

10:49am Tue 31 Dec 13

BackOfTheNet says...

I look forward to the days when someone in their early seventies has to run up a ladder or through a burning building to save someone...

Err, no I don't. Give them with the pension they have earned, perhaps by closing some of those clever tax loopholes used by large companies? That would pay for it a million times over.
I look forward to the days when someone in their early seventies has to run up a ladder or through a burning building to save someone... Err, no I don't. Give them with the pension they have earned, perhaps by closing some of those clever tax loopholes used by large companies? That would pay for it a million times over. BackOfTheNet

12:47pm Tue 31 Dec 13

kalebmoledirt says...

Is the£1650 paid after the pension contributions.?What is the return on the £350 ,have you thought negotiating lowering the fitness levels required?.are you saying that two thirds of the current work force are near or over 55? Hopefully this set a presidence for any one that is expected to occasionally do a bit of hard work And hopefully with the blessing of a doctor if over 55
Is the£1650 paid after the pension contributions.?What is the return on the £350 ,have you thought negotiating lowering the fitness levels required?.are you saying that two thirds of the current work force are near or over 55? Hopefully this set a presidence for any one that is expected to occasionally do a bit of hard work And hopefully with the blessing of a doctor if over 55 kalebmoledirt

12:53pm Tue 31 Dec 13

Not again !! says...

Lord gungedin of Ferndown wrote:
Welcome to the real world.........hang on.......paid to go to sleep at night ....no not really, not yet!
What point are you trying to make? Looking at your previous comments it would appear that you have something against the fire service. In fact you appear to have a problem with everyone and just spout off obscure comments. It would be good to hear exactly what your gripe is otherwise it's quite difficult to engage in any form of discussion.
Are you saying that you don't want firefighters on stations at night or is it that you don't want to pay them even if it is just a flat rate of pay?
You appear to have quite a lot to say, but at the same time know nothing about the service, even questioning at one point why a firefighter needs to be fit !
You come over as a bit of an angry man and produce comments with no substance.
[quote][p][bold]Lord gungedin of Ferndown[/bold] wrote: Welcome to the real world.........hang on.......paid to go to sleep at night ....no not really, not yet![/p][/quote]What point are you trying to make? Looking at your previous comments it would appear that you have something against the fire service. In fact you appear to have a problem with everyone and just spout off obscure comments. It would be good to hear exactly what your gripe is otherwise it's quite difficult to engage in any form of discussion. Are you saying that you don't want firefighters on stations at night or is it that you don't want to pay them even if it is just a flat rate of pay? You appear to have quite a lot to say, but at the same time know nothing about the service, even questioning at one point why a firefighter needs to be fit ! You come over as a bit of an angry man and produce comments with no substance. Not again !!

1:13pm Tue 31 Dec 13

Abc1970 says...

Will anybody notice them on strike again tonight, probably not. I'm afraid to say I'm not in agreement with the strike action, I think it is alienating the fire service more than helping. Everybody in this country is being penalised in one way or another from the acts of a few greedy bankers and politicians, firefighters are no different but you don't see everyone else going on strike a couple of times a week and the calling the echo to tell them. Perhaps the fire service could look at saving some money to pay for their demands, such as regional fire services rather then county fire services, surely this will save a load of cash on management and admin. As the service is becoming quieter and quieter on a yearly basis, perhaps they should expand their retained personnel and reduce the full time ones, they all have other full time jobs as well, so won't be missing out on any money. I agree that the work they do is challenging and must become more challenging with age, but they are not the only ones who do physically demanding jobs and many others will not even have the option to retire at 60.
Will anybody notice them on strike again tonight, probably not. I'm afraid to say I'm not in agreement with the strike action, I think it is alienating the fire service more than helping. Everybody in this country is being penalised in one way or another from the acts of a few greedy bankers and politicians, firefighters are no different but you don't see everyone else going on strike a couple of times a week and the calling the echo to tell them. Perhaps the fire service could look at saving some money to pay for their demands, such as regional fire services rather then county fire services, surely this will save a load of cash on management and admin. As the service is becoming quieter and quieter on a yearly basis, perhaps they should expand their retained personnel and reduce the full time ones, they all have other full time jobs as well, so won't be missing out on any money. I agree that the work they do is challenging and must become more challenging with age, but they are not the only ones who do physically demanding jobs and many others will not even have the option to retire at 60. Abc1970

1:20pm Tue 31 Dec 13

Not again !! says...

kalebmoledirt wrote:
Is the£1650 paid after the pension contributions.?What is the return on the £350 ,have you thought negotiating lowering the fitness levels required?.are you saying that two thirds of the current work force are near or over 55? Hopefully this set a presidence for any one that is expected to occasionally do a bit of hard work And hopefully with the blessing of a doctor if over 55
Have you been drinking ?
[quote][p][bold]kalebmoledirt[/bold] wrote: Is the£1650 paid after the pension contributions.?What is the return on the £350 ,have you thought negotiating lowering the fitness levels required?.are you saying that two thirds of the current work force are near or over 55? Hopefully this set a presidence for any one that is expected to occasionally do a bit of hard work And hopefully with the blessing of a doctor if over 55[/p][/quote]Have you been drinking ? Not again !!

1:32pm Tue 31 Dec 13

muscliffman says...

BackOfTheNet wrote:
I look forward to the days when someone in their early seventies has to run up a ladder or through a burning building to save someone...

Err, no I don't. Give them with the pension they have earned, perhaps by closing some of those clever tax loopholes used by large companies? That would pay for it a million times over.
Let's not be silly please! I don't think any reasonable people are expecting fire service personal to run up a ladder if they are no longer fit to do so, regardless of age. They are simply suggesting that publicly paid workers in the fire service remain in their employment until an age that is in line with general UK practice and mirrors the retirement expectations for most of us.

There must be vital roles these older slightly less agile fire service staff can fulfil where their experience and wisdom will be at least as valuable as any younger fit staff member's ability to run up a ladder. Retiring from any civilian public service on a full pension when only in your fifties is not today reasonable for so many reasons - and that does seems to be hardening popular opinion.
[quote][p][bold]BackOfTheNet[/bold] wrote: I look forward to the days when someone in their early seventies has to run up a ladder or through a burning building to save someone... Err, no I don't. Give them with the pension they have earned, perhaps by closing some of those clever tax loopholes used by large companies? That would pay for it a million times over.[/p][/quote]Let's not be silly please! I don't think any reasonable people are expecting fire service personal to run up a ladder if they are no longer fit to do so, regardless of age. They are simply suggesting that publicly paid workers in the fire service remain in their employment until an age that is in line with general UK practice and mirrors the retirement expectations for most of us. There must be vital roles these older slightly less agile fire service staff can fulfil where their experience and wisdom will be at least as valuable as any younger fit staff member's ability to run up a ladder. Retiring from any civilian public service on a full pension when only in your fifties is not today reasonable for so many reasons - and that does seems to be hardening popular opinion. muscliffman

2:03pm Tue 31 Dec 13

kalebmoledirt says...

Not again !! wrote:
kalebmoledirt wrote:
Is the£1650 paid after the pension contributions.?What is the return on the £350 ,have you thought negotiating lowering the fitness levels required?.are you saying that two thirds of the current work force are near or over 55? Hopefully this set a presidence for any one that is expected to occasionally do a bit of hard work And hopefully with the blessing of a doctor if over 55
Have you been drinking ?
Random unrelated remarks are not the basis for debate ,get a grown up to explain
[quote][p][bold]Not again !![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]kalebmoledirt[/bold] wrote: Is the£1650 paid after the pension contributions.?What is the return on the £350 ,have you thought negotiating lowering the fitness levels required?.are you saying that two thirds of the current work force are near or over 55? Hopefully this set a presidence for any one that is expected to occasionally do a bit of hard work And hopefully with the blessing of a doctor if over 55[/p][/quote]Have you been drinking ?[/p][/quote]Random unrelated remarks are not the basis for debate ,get a grown up to explain kalebmoledirt

2:56pm Tue 31 Dec 13

Not again !! says...

Abc1970 wrote:
Will anybody notice them on strike again tonight, probably not. I'm afraid to say I'm not in agreement with the strike action, I think it is alienating the fire service more than helping. Everybody in this country is being penalised in one way or another from the acts of a few greedy bankers and politicians, firefighters are no different but you don't see everyone else going on strike a couple of times a week and the calling the echo to tell them. Perhaps the fire service could look at saving some money to pay for their demands, such as regional fire services rather then county fire services, surely this will save a load of cash on management and admin. As the service is becoming quieter and quieter on a yearly basis, perhaps they should expand their retained personnel and reduce the full time ones, they all have other full time jobs as well, so won't be missing out on any money. I agree that the work they do is challenging and must become more challenging with age, but they are not the only ones who do physically demanding jobs and many others will not even have the option to retire at 60.
I notice you answer your own question regarding anybody noticing them on strike again and I'm afraid to say that you got the answer wrong. Quite funny really, bearing in mind it was your question !! At least you have put your point over in a way that I can at least follow which is more than I can say for most of the other comments so far.
The answer to your question 'will anybody notice', is unfortunately a resounding 'Yes'. This is a national strike and unfortunately someone, somewhere will notice. It most probably won't be you or even anyone you know, but someone, somewhere will be affected so please do not pretend that now, or at any time in the future we don't need a modern, fit fire service. It smacks of being selfish to think that 'I won't notice it, so it doesn't matter.'
Like you, most firefighters do not believe in or want to be out on strike. Who wants to start the year by having your wages cut but the FBU have been trying to get the Government to talk for years and there is nothing left to make them listen. If you think that being penalised due to the greed of bankers and politicians is fair and is the way forward, then we are singing from a different hymn sheet.
When you talk of making money savings I would have thought that this is slightly moving away from the matter of pensions and retirement ages. The fact remains that Dorset in particular is cut to the bone, under staffed and will soon be known as 'Witshire and Dorset Fire service.' This will result in many control room and backroom staff losing their jobs with very few savings with regard to management. The last Government wasted £500 million on regionalisation of control rooms before this incompetent government scrapped the idea. I'm not convinced that larger brigades provide a better service.
You say that the service is becoming quieter, but do not give your reasons as to why this is. You don't mention the home fire safety work carried out by full time crews, travelling to peoples homes, fitting free smoke detectors and giving fire safety advice. Maybe that's why things are getting quieter and your suggestion is to replace wholetimers with retained firefighters. Trust me if the Chief could have, he would have done so.
Not only are the retained cheaper, they do a full 2-3 hours training a week, they take much longer to attend fires ( not that you will be worried about this as it's not going to be you) and most week days they are not available. That means the fire engine sat on your retained station is useless. Fact !! They also do very little home fire safety work, if any.
If that's the modern fire service you want then 'you turkeys must keep voting for Christmas.' Whilst on the subject of 'reducing the full time ones' as you put it, my full time job is a firefighter, it is my only job. Should I wish to have a second job it has nothing to do with you or anyone else as long as I spend my 48 hours per tour on a fire station. If you want a second job working a night shift or maybe in a bar, go and do it. I really don't care and neither does anyone else.
At least you agree that the job is challenging, and to be fair some days are more challenging than others. What you need to bear in mind is that you need to be ready at all times. Nobody is trying to pretend that we are dragging people out of fires every day of the week, but it does happen and you do not want be be performing below par when that time comes. I am in my late 40's and beginning to find it difficult to keep up. Will I be able to do this at 60,, No chance, instead I will be dismissed on grounds of capability and wont get my massively reduced pension until the age of 68. A bit of a shocker when for the last 20 years I've been paying over £300 into a pension that meant I could retire at 55.
If you really are interested in why we are striking have a read of the Governments imposed deal which they have been unwilling to discuss over the last few years
www.gov.uk/governmen
t/publications/firef
ighters-pension-sche
me-heads-of-agreemen
t
If only we'd been on strike when the Olympics were on !!
[quote][p][bold]Abc1970[/bold] wrote: Will anybody notice them on strike again tonight, probably not. I'm afraid to say I'm not in agreement with the strike action, I think it is alienating the fire service more than helping. Everybody in this country is being penalised in one way or another from the acts of a few greedy bankers and politicians, firefighters are no different but you don't see everyone else going on strike a couple of times a week and the calling the echo to tell them. Perhaps the fire service could look at saving some money to pay for their demands, such as regional fire services rather then county fire services, surely this will save a load of cash on management and admin. As the service is becoming quieter and quieter on a yearly basis, perhaps they should expand their retained personnel and reduce the full time ones, they all have other full time jobs as well, so won't be missing out on any money. I agree that the work they do is challenging and must become more challenging with age, but they are not the only ones who do physically demanding jobs and many others will not even have the option to retire at 60.[/p][/quote]I notice you answer your own question regarding anybody noticing them on strike again and I'm afraid to say that you got the answer wrong. Quite funny really, bearing in mind it was your question !! At least you have put your point over in a way that I can at least follow which is more than I can say for most of the other comments so far. The answer to your question 'will anybody notice', is unfortunately a resounding 'Yes'. This is a national strike and unfortunately someone, somewhere will notice. It most probably won't be you or even anyone you know, but someone, somewhere will be affected so please do not pretend that now, or at any time in the future we don't need a modern, fit fire service. It smacks of being selfish to think that 'I won't notice it, so it doesn't matter.' Like you, most firefighters do not believe in or want to be out on strike. Who wants to start the year by having your wages cut but the FBU have been trying to get the Government to talk for years and there is nothing left to make them listen. If you think that being penalised due to the greed of bankers and politicians is fair and is the way forward, then we are singing from a different hymn sheet. When you talk of making money savings I would have thought that this is slightly moving away from the matter of pensions and retirement ages. The fact remains that Dorset in particular is cut to the bone, under staffed and will soon be known as 'Witshire and Dorset Fire service.' This will result in many control room and backroom staff losing their jobs with very few savings with regard to management. The last Government wasted £500 million on regionalisation of control rooms before this incompetent government scrapped the idea. I'm not convinced that larger brigades provide a better service. You say that the service is becoming quieter, but do not give your reasons as to why this is. You don't mention the home fire safety work carried out by full time crews, travelling to peoples homes, fitting free smoke detectors and giving fire safety advice. Maybe that's why things are getting quieter and your suggestion is to replace wholetimers with retained firefighters. Trust me if the Chief could have, he would have done so. Not only are the retained cheaper, they do a full 2-3 hours training a week, they take much longer to attend fires ( not that you will be worried about this as it's not going to be you) and most week days they are not available. That means the fire engine sat on your retained station is useless. Fact !! They also do very little home fire safety work, if any. If that's the modern fire service you want then 'you turkeys must keep voting for Christmas.' Whilst on the subject of 'reducing the full time ones' as you put it, my full time job is a firefighter, it is my only job. Should I wish to have a second job it has nothing to do with you or anyone else as long as I spend my 48 hours per tour on a fire station. If you want a second job working a night shift or maybe in a bar, go and do it. I really don't care and neither does anyone else. At least you agree that the job is challenging, and to be fair some days are more challenging than others. What you need to bear in mind is that you need to be ready at all times. Nobody is trying to pretend that we are dragging people out of fires every day of the week, but it does happen and you do not want be be performing below par when that time comes. I am in my late 40's and beginning to find it difficult to keep up. Will I be able to do this at 60,, No chance, instead I will be dismissed on grounds of capability and wont get my massively reduced pension until the age of 68. A bit of a shocker when for the last 20 years I've been paying over £300 into a pension that meant I could retire at 55. If you really are interested in why we are striking have a read of the Governments imposed deal which they have been unwilling to discuss over the last few years www.gov.uk/governmen t/publications/firef ighters-pension-sche me-heads-of-agreemen t If only we'd been on strike when the Olympics were on !! Not again !!

3:17pm Tue 31 Dec 13

skydriver says...

Not again !! wrote:
Abc1970 wrote:
Will anybody notice them on strike again tonight, probably not. I'm afraid to say I'm not in agreement with the strike action, I think it is alienating the fire service more than helping. Everybody in this country is being penalised in one way or another from the acts of a few greedy bankers and politicians, firefighters are no different but you don't see everyone else going on strike a couple of times a week and the calling the echo to tell them. Perhaps the fire service could look at saving some money to pay for their demands, such as regional fire services rather then county fire services, surely this will save a load of cash on management and admin. As the service is becoming quieter and quieter on a yearly basis, perhaps they should expand their retained personnel and reduce the full time ones, they all have other full time jobs as well, so won't be missing out on any money. I agree that the work they do is challenging and must become more challenging with age, but they are not the only ones who do physically demanding jobs and many others will not even have the option to retire at 60.
I notice you answer your own question regarding anybody noticing them on strike again and I'm afraid to say that you got the answer wrong. Quite funny really, bearing in mind it was your question !! At least you have put your point over in a way that I can at least follow which is more than I can say for most of the other comments so far.
The answer to your question 'will anybody notice', is unfortunately a resounding 'Yes'. This is a national strike and unfortunately someone, somewhere will notice. It most probably won't be you or even anyone you know, but someone, somewhere will be affected so please do not pretend that now, or at any time in the future we don't need a modern, fit fire service. It smacks of being selfish to think that 'I won't notice it, so it doesn't matter.'
Like you, most firefighters do not believe in or want to be out on strike. Who wants to start the year by having your wages cut but the FBU have been trying to get the Government to talk for years and there is nothing left to make them listen. If you think that being penalised due to the greed of bankers and politicians is fair and is the way forward, then we are singing from a different hymn sheet.
When you talk of making money savings I would have thought that this is slightly moving away from the matter of pensions and retirement ages. The fact remains that Dorset in particular is cut to the bone, under staffed and will soon be known as 'Witshire and Dorset Fire service.' This will result in many control room and backroom staff losing their jobs with very few savings with regard to management. The last Government wasted £500 million on regionalisation of control rooms before this incompetent government scrapped the idea. I'm not convinced that larger brigades provide a better service.
You say that the service is becoming quieter, but do not give your reasons as to why this is. You don't mention the home fire safety work carried out by full time crews, travelling to peoples homes, fitting free smoke detectors and giving fire safety advice. Maybe that's why things are getting quieter and your suggestion is to replace wholetimers with retained firefighters. Trust me if the Chief could have, he would have done so.
Not only are the retained cheaper, they do a full 2-3 hours training a week, they take much longer to attend fires ( not that you will be worried about this as it's not going to be you) and most week days they are not available. That means the fire engine sat on your retained station is useless. Fact !! They also do very little home fire safety work, if any.
If that's the modern fire service you want then 'you turkeys must keep voting for Christmas.' Whilst on the subject of 'reducing the full time ones' as you put it, my full time job is a firefighter, it is my only job. Should I wish to have a second job it has nothing to do with you or anyone else as long as I spend my 48 hours per tour on a fire station. If you want a second job working a night shift or maybe in a bar, go and do it. I really don't care and neither does anyone else.
At least you agree that the job is challenging, and to be fair some days are more challenging than others. What you need to bear in mind is that you need to be ready at all times. Nobody is trying to pretend that we are dragging people out of fires every day of the week, but it does happen and you do not want be be performing below par when that time comes. I am in my late 40's and beginning to find it difficult to keep up. Will I be able to do this at 60,, No chance, instead I will be dismissed on grounds of capability and wont get my massively reduced pension until the age of 68. A bit of a shocker when for the last 20 years I've been paying over £300 into a pension that meant I could retire at 55.
If you really are interested in why we are striking have a read of the Governments imposed deal which they have been unwilling to discuss over the last few years
www.gov.uk/governmen

t/publications/firef

ighters-pension-sche

me-heads-of-agreemen

t
If only we'd been on strike when the Olympics were on !!
Well written ,,good for you, I hope you get what your asking. I support you guys n girls. All these groaning people would not do you job for love or money. We all need you, keep fighting chaps. You have my support.
[quote][p][bold]Not again !![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Abc1970[/bold] wrote: Will anybody notice them on strike again tonight, probably not. I'm afraid to say I'm not in agreement with the strike action, I think it is alienating the fire service more than helping. Everybody in this country is being penalised in one way or another from the acts of a few greedy bankers and politicians, firefighters are no different but you don't see everyone else going on strike a couple of times a week and the calling the echo to tell them. Perhaps the fire service could look at saving some money to pay for their demands, such as regional fire services rather then county fire services, surely this will save a load of cash on management and admin. As the service is becoming quieter and quieter on a yearly basis, perhaps they should expand their retained personnel and reduce the full time ones, they all have other full time jobs as well, so won't be missing out on any money. I agree that the work they do is challenging and must become more challenging with age, but they are not the only ones who do physically demanding jobs and many others will not even have the option to retire at 60.[/p][/quote]I notice you answer your own question regarding anybody noticing them on strike again and I'm afraid to say that you got the answer wrong. Quite funny really, bearing in mind it was your question !! At least you have put your point over in a way that I can at least follow which is more than I can say for most of the other comments so far. The answer to your question 'will anybody notice', is unfortunately a resounding 'Yes'. This is a national strike and unfortunately someone, somewhere will notice. It most probably won't be you or even anyone you know, but someone, somewhere will be affected so please do not pretend that now, or at any time in the future we don't need a modern, fit fire service. It smacks of being selfish to think that 'I won't notice it, so it doesn't matter.' Like you, most firefighters do not believe in or want to be out on strike. Who wants to start the year by having your wages cut but the FBU have been trying to get the Government to talk for years and there is nothing left to make them listen. If you think that being penalised due to the greed of bankers and politicians is fair and is the way forward, then we are singing from a different hymn sheet. When you talk of making money savings I would have thought that this is slightly moving away from the matter of pensions and retirement ages. The fact remains that Dorset in particular is cut to the bone, under staffed and will soon be known as 'Witshire and Dorset Fire service.' This will result in many control room and backroom staff losing their jobs with very few savings with regard to management. The last Government wasted £500 million on regionalisation of control rooms before this incompetent government scrapped the idea. I'm not convinced that larger brigades provide a better service. You say that the service is becoming quieter, but do not give your reasons as to why this is. You don't mention the home fire safety work carried out by full time crews, travelling to peoples homes, fitting free smoke detectors and giving fire safety advice. Maybe that's why things are getting quieter and your suggestion is to replace wholetimers with retained firefighters. Trust me if the Chief could have, he would have done so. Not only are the retained cheaper, they do a full 2-3 hours training a week, they take much longer to attend fires ( not that you will be worried about this as it's not going to be you) and most week days they are not available. That means the fire engine sat on your retained station is useless. Fact !! They also do very little home fire safety work, if any. If that's the modern fire service you want then 'you turkeys must keep voting for Christmas.' Whilst on the subject of 'reducing the full time ones' as you put it, my full time job is a firefighter, it is my only job. Should I wish to have a second job it has nothing to do with you or anyone else as long as I spend my 48 hours per tour on a fire station. If you want a second job working a night shift or maybe in a bar, go and do it. I really don't care and neither does anyone else. At least you agree that the job is challenging, and to be fair some days are more challenging than others. What you need to bear in mind is that you need to be ready at all times. Nobody is trying to pretend that we are dragging people out of fires every day of the week, but it does happen and you do not want be be performing below par when that time comes. I am in my late 40's and beginning to find it difficult to keep up. Will I be able to do this at 60,, No chance, instead I will be dismissed on grounds of capability and wont get my massively reduced pension until the age of 68. A bit of a shocker when for the last 20 years I've been paying over £300 into a pension that meant I could retire at 55. If you really are interested in why we are striking have a read of the Governments imposed deal which they have been unwilling to discuss over the last few years www.gov.uk/governmen t/publications/firef ighters-pension-sche me-heads-of-agreemen t If only we'd been on strike when the Olympics were on !![/p][/quote]Well written ,,good for you, I hope you get what your asking. I support you guys n girls. All these groaning people would not do you job for love or money. We all need you, keep fighting chaps. You have my support. skydriver

3:25pm Tue 31 Dec 13

Not again !! says...

kalebmoledirt wrote:
Not again !! wrote:
kalebmoledirt wrote:
Is the£1650 paid after the pension contributions.?What is the return on the £350 ,have you thought negotiating lowering the fitness levels required?.are you saying that two thirds of the current work force are near or over 55? Hopefully this set a presidence for any one that is expected to occasionally do a bit of hard work And hopefully with the blessing of a doctor if over 55
Have you been drinking ?
Random unrelated remarks are not the basis for debate ,get a grown up to explain
Trust me, I am not the best with spelling and punctuation so please don't have a go at me for that, but I found your comment really difficult to understand.
It looks as though you had lots of angry ideas running around your head and you just bashed them into your keyboard without full stops, capital letters and it just doesn't make much sense.
I will however try and explain some of what you are asking.
Ok,,,,,,Is the £1650 paid after the pension contributions,,,,,,,
,the clue here is that it says 'firefighters take home £1650.' That's roughly £412.50 per week to pay all my bills, not that much really, but when you take into account that I'm hopefully getting a decent pension I'll live with it.
I'm not sure what you mean by the return on £350 ? that's what I pay to my pension each and every month. Did you read the article at all ?
With regard to negotiating lowering the fitness levels required,,, we tried this but they couldn't guarantee that they would only send us to little fires. In fact they said that some fires would be quite big and now and again they could be hot too and we might have to get close to them. For these reasons negotiations broke down !
Are you saying that two thirds of the workforce are near or over 55?,,,,,No, you really must try harder !
Really I have no idea what you are trying to say regarding precedence, sorry presidence, hard work, and blessings from doctors.
I think I was right in the first place by trying to ignore you, but you just reeled me in, you rotter !
Happy New Year and keep your chins up !
[quote][p][bold]kalebmoledirt[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Not again !![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]kalebmoledirt[/bold] wrote: Is the£1650 paid after the pension contributions.?What is the return on the £350 ,have you thought negotiating lowering the fitness levels required?.are you saying that two thirds of the current work force are near or over 55? Hopefully this set a presidence for any one that is expected to occasionally do a bit of hard work And hopefully with the blessing of a doctor if over 55[/p][/quote]Have you been drinking ?[/p][/quote]Random unrelated remarks are not the basis for debate ,get a grown up to explain[/p][/quote]Trust me, I am not the best with spelling and punctuation so please don't have a go at me for that, but I found your comment really difficult to understand. It looks as though you had lots of angry ideas running around your head and you just bashed them into your keyboard without full stops, capital letters and it just doesn't make much sense. I will however try and explain some of what you are asking. Ok,,,,,,Is the £1650 paid after the pension contributions,,,,,,, ,the clue here is that it says 'firefighters take home £1650.' That's roughly £412.50 per week to pay all my bills, not that much really, but when you take into account that I'm hopefully getting a decent pension I'll live with it. I'm not sure what you mean by the return on £350 ? that's what I pay to my pension each and every month. Did you read the article at all ? With regard to negotiating lowering the fitness levels required,,, we tried this but they couldn't guarantee that they would only send us to little fires. In fact they said that some fires would be quite big and now and again they could be hot too and we might have to get close to them. For these reasons negotiations broke down ! Are you saying that two thirds of the workforce are near or over 55?,,,,,No, you really must try harder ! Really I have no idea what you are trying to say regarding precedence, sorry presidence, hard work, and blessings from doctors. I think I was right in the first place by trying to ignore you, but you just reeled me in, you rotter ! Happy New Year and keep your chins up ! Not again !!

3:55pm Tue 31 Dec 13

ShuttleX says...

Once again I would like to say thank you to the Council workers who will be covering the Sheltered Housing Schemes. It might not seem it, but your presence there does reassure the residents.
Once again I would like to say thank you to the Council workers who will be covering the Sheltered Housing Schemes. It might not seem it, but your presence there does reassure the residents. ShuttleX

7:31pm Tue 31 Dec 13

kalebmoledirt says...

Not again !! wrote:
kalebmoledirt wrote:
Not again !! wrote:
kalebmoledirt wrote:
Is the£1650 paid after the pension contributions.?What is the return on the £350 ,have you thought negotiating lowering the fitness levels required?.are you saying that two thirds of the current work force are near or over 55? Hopefully this set a presidence for any one that is expected to occasionally do a bit of hard work And hopefully with the blessing of a doctor if over 55
Have you been drinking ?
Random unrelated remarks are not the basis for debate ,get a grown up to explain
Trust me, I am not the best with spelling and punctuation so please don't have a go at me for that, but I found your comment really difficult to understand.
It looks as though you had lots of angry ideas running around your head and you just bashed them into your keyboard without full stops, capital letters and it just doesn't make much sense.
I will however try and explain some of what you are asking.
Ok,,,,,,Is the £1650 paid after the pension contributions,,,,,,,

,the clue here is that it says 'firefighters take home £1650.' That's roughly £412.50 per week to pay all my bills, not that much really, but when you take into account that I'm hopefully getting a decent pension I'll live with it.
I'm not sure what you mean by the return on £350 ? that's what I pay to my pension each and every month. Did you read the article at all ?
With regard to negotiating lowering the fitness levels required,,, we tried this but they couldn't guarantee that they would only send us to little fires. In fact they said that some fires would be quite big and now and again they could be hot too and we might have to get close to them. For these reasons negotiations broke down !
Are you saying that two thirds of the workforce are near or over 55?,,,,,No, you really must try harder !
Really I have no idea what you are trying to say regarding precedence, sorry presidence, hard work, and blessings from doctors.
I think I was right in the first place by trying to ignore you, but you just reeled me in, you rotter !
Happy New Year and keep your chins up !
Really did not want to compromise you just wanted .some answers.Not your personal circumstances.I am retire and live in France so can only judge what I read in the papers.in quality papers it suggested that there is very little sympathy to the fire service. They are a long way down the list of dangerous jobs.Take a look at phycy nurses working on a forensic ward.or a 70 year old building worker .No need to guess who will enjoy the better retirement
[quote][p][bold]Not again !![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]kalebmoledirt[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Not again !![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]kalebmoledirt[/bold] wrote: Is the£1650 paid after the pension contributions.?What is the return on the £350 ,have you thought negotiating lowering the fitness levels required?.are you saying that two thirds of the current work force are near or over 55? Hopefully this set a presidence for any one that is expected to occasionally do a bit of hard work And hopefully with the blessing of a doctor if over 55[/p][/quote]Have you been drinking ?[/p][/quote]Random unrelated remarks are not the basis for debate ,get a grown up to explain[/p][/quote]Trust me, I am not the best with spelling and punctuation so please don't have a go at me for that, but I found your comment really difficult to understand. It looks as though you had lots of angry ideas running around your head and you just bashed them into your keyboard without full stops, capital letters and it just doesn't make much sense. I will however try and explain some of what you are asking. Ok,,,,,,Is the £1650 paid after the pension contributions,,,,,,, ,the clue here is that it says 'firefighters take home £1650.' That's roughly £412.50 per week to pay all my bills, not that much really, but when you take into account that I'm hopefully getting a decent pension I'll live with it. I'm not sure what you mean by the return on £350 ? that's what I pay to my pension each and every month. Did you read the article at all ? With regard to negotiating lowering the fitness levels required,,, we tried this but they couldn't guarantee that they would only send us to little fires. In fact they said that some fires would be quite big and now and again they could be hot too and we might have to get close to them. For these reasons negotiations broke down ! Are you saying that two thirds of the workforce are near or over 55?,,,,,No, you really must try harder ! Really I have no idea what you are trying to say regarding precedence, sorry presidence, hard work, and blessings from doctors. I think I was right in the first place by trying to ignore you, but you just reeled me in, you rotter ! Happy New Year and keep your chins up ![/p][/quote]Really did not want to compromise you just wanted .some answers.Not your personal circumstances.I am retire and live in France so can only judge what I read in the papers.in quality papers it suggested that there is very little sympathy to the fire service. They are a long way down the list of dangerous jobs.Take a look at phycy nurses working on a forensic ward.or a 70 year old building worker .No need to guess who will enjoy the better retirement kalebmoledirt

9:55am Wed 1 Jan 14

Peroni says...

Not again !! wrote:
Abc1970 wrote:
Will anybody notice them on strike again tonight, probably not. I'm afraid to say I'm not in agreement with the strike action, I think it is alienating the fire service more than helping. Everybody in this country is being penalised in one way or another from the acts of a few greedy bankers and politicians, firefighters are no different but you don't see everyone else going on strike a couple of times a week and the calling the echo to tell them. Perhaps the fire service could look at saving some money to pay for their demands, such as regional fire services rather then county fire services, surely this will save a load of cash on management and admin. As the service is becoming quieter and quieter on a yearly basis, perhaps they should expand their retained personnel and reduce the full time ones, they all have other full time jobs as well, so won't be missing out on any money. I agree that the work they do is challenging and must become more challenging with age, but they are not the only ones who do physically demanding jobs and many others will not even have the option to retire at 60.
I notice you answer your own question regarding anybody noticing them on strike again and I'm afraid to say that you got the answer wrong. Quite funny really, bearing in mind it was your question !! At least you have put your point over in a way that I can at least follow which is more than I can say for most of the other comments so far.
The answer to your question 'will anybody notice', is unfortunately a resounding 'Yes'. This is a national strike and unfortunately someone, somewhere will notice. It most probably won't be you or even anyone you know, but someone, somewhere will be affected so please do not pretend that now, or at any time in the future we don't need a modern, fit fire service. It smacks of being selfish to think that 'I won't notice it, so it doesn't matter.'
Like you, most firefighters do not believe in or want to be out on strike. Who wants to start the year by having your wages cut but the FBU have been trying to get the Government to talk for years and there is nothing left to make them listen. If you think that being penalised due to the greed of bankers and politicians is fair and is the way forward, then we are singing from a different hymn sheet.
When you talk of making money savings I would have thought that this is slightly moving away from the matter of pensions and retirement ages. The fact remains that Dorset in particular is cut to the bone, under staffed and will soon be known as 'Witshire and Dorset Fire service.' This will result in many control room and backroom staff losing their jobs with very few savings with regard to management. The last Government wasted £500 million on regionalisation of control rooms before this incompetent government scrapped the idea. I'm not convinced that larger brigades provide a better service.
You say that the service is becoming quieter, but do not give your reasons as to why this is. You don't mention the home fire safety work carried out by full time crews, travelling to peoples homes, fitting free smoke detectors and giving fire safety advice. Maybe that's why things are getting quieter and your suggestion is to replace wholetimers with retained firefighters. Trust me if the Chief could have, he would have done so.
Not only are the retained cheaper, they do a full 2-3 hours training a week, they take much longer to attend fires ( not that you will be worried about this as it's not going to be you) and most week days they are not available. That means the fire engine sat on your retained station is useless. Fact !! They also do very little home fire safety work, if any.
If that's the modern fire service you want then 'you turkeys must keep voting for Christmas.' Whilst on the subject of 'reducing the full time ones' as you put it, my full time job is a firefighter, it is my only job. Should I wish to have a second job it has nothing to do with you or anyone else as long as I spend my 48 hours per tour on a fire station. If you want a second job working a night shift or maybe in a bar, go and do it. I really don't care and neither does anyone else.
At least you agree that the job is challenging, and to be fair some days are more challenging than others. What you need to bear in mind is that you need to be ready at all times. Nobody is trying to pretend that we are dragging people out of fires every day of the week, but it does happen and you do not want be be performing below par when that time comes. I am in my late 40's and beginning to find it difficult to keep up. Will I be able to do this at 60,, No chance, instead I will be dismissed on grounds of capability and wont get my massively reduced pension until the age of 68. A bit of a shocker when for the last 20 years I've been paying over £300 into a pension that meant I could retire at 55.
If you really are interested in why we are striking have a read of the Governments imposed deal which they have been unwilling to discuss over the last few years
www.gov.uk/governmen

t/publications/firef

ighters-pension-sche

me-heads-of-agreemen

t
If only we'd been on strike when the Olympics were on !!
Interesting that you defend your right to have a second job !
Does that relate to the drivers as well, out here HGV drivers are not allowed to take up a second job !
You want tax payers to fund you while prob 70% of the time your not actually working ! Retire when your 55 ! And earn more income on the side .
Right oh !!!!
And hold the country to ransom by striking !!!
Shame you !!!!!
[quote][p][bold]Not again !![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Abc1970[/bold] wrote: Will anybody notice them on strike again tonight, probably not. I'm afraid to say I'm not in agreement with the strike action, I think it is alienating the fire service more than helping. Everybody in this country is being penalised in one way or another from the acts of a few greedy bankers and politicians, firefighters are no different but you don't see everyone else going on strike a couple of times a week and the calling the echo to tell them. Perhaps the fire service could look at saving some money to pay for their demands, such as regional fire services rather then county fire services, surely this will save a load of cash on management and admin. As the service is becoming quieter and quieter on a yearly basis, perhaps they should expand their retained personnel and reduce the full time ones, they all have other full time jobs as well, so won't be missing out on any money. I agree that the work they do is challenging and must become more challenging with age, but they are not the only ones who do physically demanding jobs and many others will not even have the option to retire at 60.[/p][/quote]I notice you answer your own question regarding anybody noticing them on strike again and I'm afraid to say that you got the answer wrong. Quite funny really, bearing in mind it was your question !! At least you have put your point over in a way that I can at least follow which is more than I can say for most of the other comments so far. The answer to your question 'will anybody notice', is unfortunately a resounding 'Yes'. This is a national strike and unfortunately someone, somewhere will notice. It most probably won't be you or even anyone you know, but someone, somewhere will be affected so please do not pretend that now, or at any time in the future we don't need a modern, fit fire service. It smacks of being selfish to think that 'I won't notice it, so it doesn't matter.' Like you, most firefighters do not believe in or want to be out on strike. Who wants to start the year by having your wages cut but the FBU have been trying to get the Government to talk for years and there is nothing left to make them listen. If you think that being penalised due to the greed of bankers and politicians is fair and is the way forward, then we are singing from a different hymn sheet. When you talk of making money savings I would have thought that this is slightly moving away from the matter of pensions and retirement ages. The fact remains that Dorset in particular is cut to the bone, under staffed and will soon be known as 'Witshire and Dorset Fire service.' This will result in many control room and backroom staff losing their jobs with very few savings with regard to management. The last Government wasted £500 million on regionalisation of control rooms before this incompetent government scrapped the idea. I'm not convinced that larger brigades provide a better service. You say that the service is becoming quieter, but do not give your reasons as to why this is. You don't mention the home fire safety work carried out by full time crews, travelling to peoples homes, fitting free smoke detectors and giving fire safety advice. Maybe that's why things are getting quieter and your suggestion is to replace wholetimers with retained firefighters. Trust me if the Chief could have, he would have done so. Not only are the retained cheaper, they do a full 2-3 hours training a week, they take much longer to attend fires ( not that you will be worried about this as it's not going to be you) and most week days they are not available. That means the fire engine sat on your retained station is useless. Fact !! They also do very little home fire safety work, if any. If that's the modern fire service you want then 'you turkeys must keep voting for Christmas.' Whilst on the subject of 'reducing the full time ones' as you put it, my full time job is a firefighter, it is my only job. Should I wish to have a second job it has nothing to do with you or anyone else as long as I spend my 48 hours per tour on a fire station. If you want a second job working a night shift or maybe in a bar, go and do it. I really don't care and neither does anyone else. At least you agree that the job is challenging, and to be fair some days are more challenging than others. What you need to bear in mind is that you need to be ready at all times. Nobody is trying to pretend that we are dragging people out of fires every day of the week, but it does happen and you do not want be be performing below par when that time comes. I am in my late 40's and beginning to find it difficult to keep up. Will I be able to do this at 60,, No chance, instead I will be dismissed on grounds of capability and wont get my massively reduced pension until the age of 68. A bit of a shocker when for the last 20 years I've been paying over £300 into a pension that meant I could retire at 55. If you really are interested in why we are striking have a read of the Governments imposed deal which they have been unwilling to discuss over the last few years www.gov.uk/governmen t/publications/firef ighters-pension-sche me-heads-of-agreemen t If only we'd been on strike when the Olympics were on !![/p][/quote]Interesting that you defend your right to have a second job ! Does that relate to the drivers as well, out here HGV drivers are not allowed to take up a second job ! You want tax payers to fund you while prob 70% of the time your not actually working ! Retire when your 55 ! And earn more income on the side . Right oh !!!! And hold the country to ransom by striking !!! Shame you !!!!! Peroni

12:07pm Wed 1 Jan 14

Not again !! says...

Peroni wrote:
Not again !! wrote:
Abc1970 wrote:
Will anybody notice them on strike again tonight, probably not. I'm afraid to say I'm not in agreement with the strike action, I think it is alienating the fire service more than helping. Everybody in this country is being penalised in one way or another from the acts of a few greedy bankers and politicians, firefighters are no different but you don't see everyone else going on strike a couple of times a week and the calling the echo to tell them. Perhaps the fire service could look at saving some money to pay for their demands, such as regional fire services rather then county fire services, surely this will save a load of cash on management and admin. As the service is becoming quieter and quieter on a yearly basis, perhaps they should expand their retained personnel and reduce the full time ones, they all have other full time jobs as well, so won't be missing out on any money. I agree that the work they do is challenging and must become more challenging with age, but they are not the only ones who do physically demanding jobs and many others will not even have the option to retire at 60.
I notice you answer your own question regarding anybody noticing them on strike again and I'm afraid to say that you got the answer wrong. Quite funny really, bearing in mind it was your question !! At least you have put your point over in a way that I can at least follow which is more than I can say for most of the other comments so far.
The answer to your question 'will anybody notice', is unfortunately a resounding 'Yes'. This is a national strike and unfortunately someone, somewhere will notice. It most probably won't be you or even anyone you know, but someone, somewhere will be affected so please do not pretend that now, or at any time in the future we don't need a modern, fit fire service. It smacks of being selfish to think that 'I won't notice it, so it doesn't matter.'
Like you, most firefighters do not believe in or want to be out on strike. Who wants to start the year by having your wages cut but the FBU have been trying to get the Government to talk for years and there is nothing left to make them listen. If you think that being penalised due to the greed of bankers and politicians is fair and is the way forward, then we are singing from a different hymn sheet.
When you talk of making money savings I would have thought that this is slightly moving away from the matter of pensions and retirement ages. The fact remains that Dorset in particular is cut to the bone, under staffed and will soon be known as 'Witshire and Dorset Fire service.' This will result in many control room and backroom staff losing their jobs with very few savings with regard to management. The last Government wasted £500 million on regionalisation of control rooms before this incompetent government scrapped the idea. I'm not convinced that larger brigades provide a better service.
You say that the service is becoming quieter, but do not give your reasons as to why this is. You don't mention the home fire safety work carried out by full time crews, travelling to peoples homes, fitting free smoke detectors and giving fire safety advice. Maybe that's why things are getting quieter and your suggestion is to replace wholetimers with retained firefighters. Trust me if the Chief could have, he would have done so.
Not only are the retained cheaper, they do a full 2-3 hours training a week, they take much longer to attend fires ( not that you will be worried about this as it's not going to be you) and most week days they are not available. That means the fire engine sat on your retained station is useless. Fact !! They also do very little home fire safety work, if any.
If that's the modern fire service you want then 'you turkeys must keep voting for Christmas.' Whilst on the subject of 'reducing the full time ones' as you put it, my full time job is a firefighter, it is my only job. Should I wish to have a second job it has nothing to do with you or anyone else as long as I spend my 48 hours per tour on a fire station. If you want a second job working a night shift or maybe in a bar, go and do it. I really don't care and neither does anyone else.
At least you agree that the job is challenging, and to be fair some days are more challenging than others. What you need to bear in mind is that you need to be ready at all times. Nobody is trying to pretend that we are dragging people out of fires every day of the week, but it does happen and you do not want be be performing below par when that time comes. I am in my late 40's and beginning to find it difficult to keep up. Will I be able to do this at 60,, No chance, instead I will be dismissed on grounds of capability and wont get my massively reduced pension until the age of 68. A bit of a shocker when for the last 20 years I've been paying over £300 into a pension that meant I could retire at 55.
If you really are interested in why we are striking have a read of the Governments imposed deal which they have been unwilling to discuss over the last few years
www.gov.uk/governmen


t/publications/firef


ighters-pension-sche


me-heads-of-agreemen


t
If only we'd been on strike when the Olympics were on !!
Interesting that you defend your right to have a second job !
Does that relate to the drivers as well, out here HGV drivers are not allowed to take up a second job !
You want tax payers to fund you while prob 70% of the time your not actually working ! Retire when your 55 ! And earn more income on the side .
Right oh !!!!
And hold the country to ransom by striking !!!
Shame you !!!!!
I don't really know about HGV drivers not being allowed to have second jobs and why would I. It would be fair to assume that this may be for safety reasons, I don't know, but if that's your choice of profession good luck to you. Don't have a go at me just because you're not happy with your lot !
It appears that you would only want to pay firefighters for the time that putting out fires or cutting lorry drivers out of their wagons. Dream on, it's a fluffy World you live in. I would not expect anyone to spend 48 hours on a station away from their loved ones and not be paid for it. I think you would find if you knew anything about the modern fire service that a lot of our time is spent proactively preventing incidents.
As for tax payers funding me, I am a tax payer and I have no problem with paying for public services of which the fire service is a tiny part.
When I joined the fire service it was on a very poor salary with the added carrot of a decent pension after 30 years service. Nobody said they were going to change it after paying in for 20 years or that it would be very likely that you would be dismissed on grounds of capability if your old knees or back won't hold out until 60 years of age.
Holding the country to ransom, you've got a cheek ! Find out what's really on offer for us before you start blubbing just because you're not happy with you're situation. It's grossly unfair and even a 'Yorkie' munching lorry driver should be able to see that.
[quote][p][bold]Peroni[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Not again !![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Abc1970[/bold] wrote: Will anybody notice them on strike again tonight, probably not. I'm afraid to say I'm not in agreement with the strike action, I think it is alienating the fire service more than helping. Everybody in this country is being penalised in one way or another from the acts of a few greedy bankers and politicians, firefighters are no different but you don't see everyone else going on strike a couple of times a week and the calling the echo to tell them. Perhaps the fire service could look at saving some money to pay for their demands, such as regional fire services rather then county fire services, surely this will save a load of cash on management and admin. As the service is becoming quieter and quieter on a yearly basis, perhaps they should expand their retained personnel and reduce the full time ones, they all have other full time jobs as well, so won't be missing out on any money. I agree that the work they do is challenging and must become more challenging with age, but they are not the only ones who do physically demanding jobs and many others will not even have the option to retire at 60.[/p][/quote]I notice you answer your own question regarding anybody noticing them on strike again and I'm afraid to say that you got the answer wrong. Quite funny really, bearing in mind it was your question !! At least you have put your point over in a way that I can at least follow which is more than I can say for most of the other comments so far. The answer to your question 'will anybody notice', is unfortunately a resounding 'Yes'. This is a national strike and unfortunately someone, somewhere will notice. It most probably won't be you or even anyone you know, but someone, somewhere will be affected so please do not pretend that now, or at any time in the future we don't need a modern, fit fire service. It smacks of being selfish to think that 'I won't notice it, so it doesn't matter.' Like you, most firefighters do not believe in or want to be out on strike. Who wants to start the year by having your wages cut but the FBU have been trying to get the Government to talk for years and there is nothing left to make them listen. If you think that being penalised due to the greed of bankers and politicians is fair and is the way forward, then we are singing from a different hymn sheet. When you talk of making money savings I would have thought that this is slightly moving away from the matter of pensions and retirement ages. The fact remains that Dorset in particular is cut to the bone, under staffed and will soon be known as 'Witshire and Dorset Fire service.' This will result in many control room and backroom staff losing their jobs with very few savings with regard to management. The last Government wasted £500 million on regionalisation of control rooms before this incompetent government scrapped the idea. I'm not convinced that larger brigades provide a better service. You say that the service is becoming quieter, but do not give your reasons as to why this is. You don't mention the home fire safety work carried out by full time crews, travelling to peoples homes, fitting free smoke detectors and giving fire safety advice. Maybe that's why things are getting quieter and your suggestion is to replace wholetimers with retained firefighters. Trust me if the Chief could have, he would have done so. Not only are the retained cheaper, they do a full 2-3 hours training a week, they take much longer to attend fires ( not that you will be worried about this as it's not going to be you) and most week days they are not available. That means the fire engine sat on your retained station is useless. Fact !! They also do very little home fire safety work, if any. If that's the modern fire service you want then 'you turkeys must keep voting for Christmas.' Whilst on the subject of 'reducing the full time ones' as you put it, my full time job is a firefighter, it is my only job. Should I wish to have a second job it has nothing to do with you or anyone else as long as I spend my 48 hours per tour on a fire station. If you want a second job working a night shift or maybe in a bar, go and do it. I really don't care and neither does anyone else. At least you agree that the job is challenging, and to be fair some days are more challenging than others. What you need to bear in mind is that you need to be ready at all times. Nobody is trying to pretend that we are dragging people out of fires every day of the week, but it does happen and you do not want be be performing below par when that time comes. I am in my late 40's and beginning to find it difficult to keep up. Will I be able to do this at 60,, No chance, instead I will be dismissed on grounds of capability and wont get my massively reduced pension until the age of 68. A bit of a shocker when for the last 20 years I've been paying over £300 into a pension that meant I could retire at 55. If you really are interested in why we are striking have a read of the Governments imposed deal which they have been unwilling to discuss over the last few years www.gov.uk/governmen t/publications/firef ighters-pension-sche me-heads-of-agreemen t If only we'd been on strike when the Olympics were on !![/p][/quote]Interesting that you defend your right to have a second job ! Does that relate to the drivers as well, out here HGV drivers are not allowed to take up a second job ! You want tax payers to fund you while prob 70% of the time your not actually working ! Retire when your 55 ! And earn more income on the side . Right oh !!!! And hold the country to ransom by striking !!! Shame you !!!!![/p][/quote]I don't really know about HGV drivers not being allowed to have second jobs and why would I. It would be fair to assume that this may be for safety reasons, I don't know, but if that's your choice of profession good luck to you. Don't have a go at me just because you're not happy with your lot ! It appears that you would only want to pay firefighters for the time that putting out fires or cutting lorry drivers out of their wagons. Dream on, it's a fluffy World you live in. I would not expect anyone to spend 48 hours on a station away from their loved ones and not be paid for it. I think you would find if you knew anything about the modern fire service that a lot of our time is spent proactively preventing incidents. As for tax payers funding me, I am a tax payer and I have no problem with paying for public services of which the fire service is a tiny part. When I joined the fire service it was on a very poor salary with the added carrot of a decent pension after 30 years service. Nobody said they were going to change it after paying in for 20 years or that it would be very likely that you would be dismissed on grounds of capability if your old knees or back won't hold out until 60 years of age. Holding the country to ransom, you've got a cheek ! Find out what's really on offer for us before you start blubbing just because you're not happy with you're situation. It's grossly unfair and even a 'Yorkie' munching lorry driver should be able to see that. Not again !!

1:57pm Wed 1 Jan 14

Peroni says...

Not again !! wrote:
Peroni wrote:
Not again !! wrote:
Abc1970 wrote:
Will anybody notice them on strike again tonight, probably not. I'm afraid to say I'm not in agreement with the strike action, I think it is alienating the fire service more than helping. Everybody in this country is being penalised in one way or another from the acts of a few greedy bankers and politicians, firefighters are no different but you don't see everyone else going on strike a couple of times a week and the calling the echo to tell them. Perhaps the fire service could look at saving some money to pay for their demands, such as regional fire services rather then county fire services, surely this will save a load of cash on management and admin. As the service is becoming quieter and quieter on a yearly basis, perhaps they should expand their retained personnel and reduce the full time ones, they all have other full time jobs as well, so won't be missing out on any money. I agree that the work they do is challenging and must become more challenging with age, but they are not the only ones who do physically demanding jobs and many others will not even have the option to retire at 60.
I notice you answer your own question regarding anybody noticing them on strike again and I'm afraid to say that you got the answer wrong. Quite funny really, bearing in mind it was your question !! At least you have put your point over in a way that I can at least follow which is more than I can say for most of the other comments so far.
The answer to your question 'will anybody notice', is unfortunately a resounding 'Yes'. This is a national strike and unfortunately someone, somewhere will notice. It most probably won't be you or even anyone you know, but someone, somewhere will be affected so please do not pretend that now, or at any time in the future we don't need a modern, fit fire service. It smacks of being selfish to think that 'I won't notice it, so it doesn't matter.'
Like you, most firefighters do not believe in or want to be out on strike. Who wants to start the year by having your wages cut but the FBU have been trying to get the Government to talk for years and there is nothing left to make them listen. If you think that being penalised due to the greed of bankers and politicians is fair and is the way forward, then we are singing from a different hymn sheet.
When you talk of making money savings I would have thought that this is slightly moving away from the matter of pensions and retirement ages. The fact remains that Dorset in particular is cut to the bone, under staffed and will soon be known as 'Witshire and Dorset Fire service.' This will result in many control room and backroom staff losing their jobs with very few savings with regard to management. The last Government wasted £500 million on regionalisation of control rooms before this incompetent government scrapped the idea. I'm not convinced that larger brigades provide a better service.
You say that the service is becoming quieter, but do not give your reasons as to why this is. You don't mention the home fire safety work carried out by full time crews, travelling to peoples homes, fitting free smoke detectors and giving fire safety advice. Maybe that's why things are getting quieter and your suggestion is to replace wholetimers with retained firefighters. Trust me if the Chief could have, he would have done so.
Not only are the retained cheaper, they do a full 2-3 hours training a week, they take much longer to attend fires ( not that you will be worried about this as it's not going to be you) and most week days they are not available. That means the fire engine sat on your retained station is useless. Fact !! They also do very little home fire safety work, if any.
If that's the modern fire service you want then 'you turkeys must keep voting for Christmas.' Whilst on the subject of 'reducing the full time ones' as you put it, my full time job is a firefighter, it is my only job. Should I wish to have a second job it has nothing to do with you or anyone else as long as I spend my 48 hours per tour on a fire station. If you want a second job working a night shift or maybe in a bar, go and do it. I really don't care and neither does anyone else.
At least you agree that the job is challenging, and to be fair some days are more challenging than others. What you need to bear in mind is that you need to be ready at all times. Nobody is trying to pretend that we are dragging people out of fires every day of the week, but it does happen and you do not want be be performing below par when that time comes. I am in my late 40's and beginning to find it difficult to keep up. Will I be able to do this at 60,, No chance, instead I will be dismissed on grounds of capability and wont get my massively reduced pension until the age of 68. A bit of a shocker when for the last 20 years I've been paying over £300 into a pension that meant I could retire at 55.
If you really are interested in why we are striking have a read of the Governments imposed deal which they have been unwilling to discuss over the last few years
www.gov.uk/governmen



t/publications/firef



ighters-pension-sche



me-heads-of-agreemen



t
If only we'd been on strike when the Olympics were on !!
Interesting that you defend your right to have a second job !
Does that relate to the drivers as well, out here HGV drivers are not allowed to take up a second job !
You want tax payers to fund you while prob 70% of the time your not actually working ! Retire when your 55 ! And earn more income on the side .
Right oh !!!!
And hold the country to ransom by striking !!!
Shame you !!!!!
I don't really know about HGV drivers not being allowed to have second jobs and why would I. It would be fair to assume that this may be for safety reasons, I don't know, but if that's your choice of profession good luck to you. Don't have a go at me just because you're not happy with your lot !
It appears that you would only want to pay firefighters for the time that putting out fires or cutting lorry drivers out of their wagons. Dream on, it's a fluffy World you live in. I would not expect anyone to spend 48 hours on a station away from their loved ones and not be paid for it. I think you would find if you knew anything about the modern fire service that a lot of our time is spent proactively preventing incidents.
As for tax payers funding me, I am a tax payer and I have no problem with paying for public services of which the fire service is a tiny part.
When I joined the fire service it was on a very poor salary with the added carrot of a decent pension after 30 years service. Nobody said they were going to change it after paying in for 20 years or that it would be very likely that you would be dismissed on grounds of capability if your old knees or back won't hold out until 60 years of age.
Holding the country to ransom, you've got a cheek ! Find out what's really on offer for us before you start blubbing just because you're not happy with you're situation. It's grossly unfair and even a 'Yorkie' munching lorry driver should be able to see that.
Iam not a driver ! Merely stating that they are not allowed to take second jobs under the tacho rules etc ,as it's health and safety ,( so you ignore that fact !), just saying that you lot want your cake and eat it .
And iam not saying that firefighters should not have respect in the job they do!
But like the rest of us ,if you can't do the job ,change jobs ........as we have to !
Don't expect the rest of the country to pay for your early retirement .
And yes I'll say it again .....you should be ashamed man ! To strike !
[quote][p][bold]Not again !![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Peroni[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Not again !![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Abc1970[/bold] wrote: Will anybody notice them on strike again tonight, probably not. I'm afraid to say I'm not in agreement with the strike action, I think it is alienating the fire service more than helping. Everybody in this country is being penalised in one way or another from the acts of a few greedy bankers and politicians, firefighters are no different but you don't see everyone else going on strike a couple of times a week and the calling the echo to tell them. Perhaps the fire service could look at saving some money to pay for their demands, such as regional fire services rather then county fire services, surely this will save a load of cash on management and admin. As the service is becoming quieter and quieter on a yearly basis, perhaps they should expand their retained personnel and reduce the full time ones, they all have other full time jobs as well, so won't be missing out on any money. I agree that the work they do is challenging and must become more challenging with age, but they are not the only ones who do physically demanding jobs and many others will not even have the option to retire at 60.[/p][/quote]I notice you answer your own question regarding anybody noticing them on strike again and I'm afraid to say that you got the answer wrong. Quite funny really, bearing in mind it was your question !! At least you have put your point over in a way that I can at least follow which is more than I can say for most of the other comments so far. The answer to your question 'will anybody notice', is unfortunately a resounding 'Yes'. This is a national strike and unfortunately someone, somewhere will notice. It most probably won't be you or even anyone you know, but someone, somewhere will be affected so please do not pretend that now, or at any time in the future we don't need a modern, fit fire service. It smacks of being selfish to think that 'I won't notice it, so it doesn't matter.' Like you, most firefighters do not believe in or want to be out on strike. Who wants to start the year by having your wages cut but the FBU have been trying to get the Government to talk for years and there is nothing left to make them listen. If you think that being penalised due to the greed of bankers and politicians is fair and is the way forward, then we are singing from a different hymn sheet. When you talk of making money savings I would have thought that this is slightly moving away from the matter of pensions and retirement ages. The fact remains that Dorset in particular is cut to the bone, under staffed and will soon be known as 'Witshire and Dorset Fire service.' This will result in many control room and backroom staff losing their jobs with very few savings with regard to management. The last Government wasted £500 million on regionalisation of control rooms before this incompetent government scrapped the idea. I'm not convinced that larger brigades provide a better service. You say that the service is becoming quieter, but do not give your reasons as to why this is. You don't mention the home fire safety work carried out by full time crews, travelling to peoples homes, fitting free smoke detectors and giving fire safety advice. Maybe that's why things are getting quieter and your suggestion is to replace wholetimers with retained firefighters. Trust me if the Chief could have, he would have done so. Not only are the retained cheaper, they do a full 2-3 hours training a week, they take much longer to attend fires ( not that you will be worried about this as it's not going to be you) and most week days they are not available. That means the fire engine sat on your retained station is useless. Fact !! They also do very little home fire safety work, if any. If that's the modern fire service you want then 'you turkeys must keep voting for Christmas.' Whilst on the subject of 'reducing the full time ones' as you put it, my full time job is a firefighter, it is my only job. Should I wish to have a second job it has nothing to do with you or anyone else as long as I spend my 48 hours per tour on a fire station. If you want a second job working a night shift or maybe in a bar, go and do it. I really don't care and neither does anyone else. At least you agree that the job is challenging, and to be fair some days are more challenging than others. What you need to bear in mind is that you need to be ready at all times. Nobody is trying to pretend that we are dragging people out of fires every day of the week, but it does happen and you do not want be be performing below par when that time comes. I am in my late 40's and beginning to find it difficult to keep up. Will I be able to do this at 60,, No chance, instead I will be dismissed on grounds of capability and wont get my massively reduced pension until the age of 68. A bit of a shocker when for the last 20 years I've been paying over £300 into a pension that meant I could retire at 55. If you really are interested in why we are striking have a read of the Governments imposed deal which they have been unwilling to discuss over the last few years www.gov.uk/governmen t/publications/firef ighters-pension-sche me-heads-of-agreemen t If only we'd been on strike when the Olympics were on !![/p][/quote]Interesting that you defend your right to have a second job ! Does that relate to the drivers as well, out here HGV drivers are not allowed to take up a second job ! You want tax payers to fund you while prob 70% of the time your not actually working ! Retire when your 55 ! And earn more income on the side . Right oh !!!! And hold the country to ransom by striking !!! Shame you !!!!![/p][/quote]I don't really know about HGV drivers not being allowed to have second jobs and why would I. It would be fair to assume that this may be for safety reasons, I don't know, but if that's your choice of profession good luck to you. Don't have a go at me just because you're not happy with your lot ! It appears that you would only want to pay firefighters for the time that putting out fires or cutting lorry drivers out of their wagons. Dream on, it's a fluffy World you live in. I would not expect anyone to spend 48 hours on a station away from their loved ones and not be paid for it. I think you would find if you knew anything about the modern fire service that a lot of our time is spent proactively preventing incidents. As for tax payers funding me, I am a tax payer and I have no problem with paying for public services of which the fire service is a tiny part. When I joined the fire service it was on a very poor salary with the added carrot of a decent pension after 30 years service. Nobody said they were going to change it after paying in for 20 years or that it would be very likely that you would be dismissed on grounds of capability if your old knees or back won't hold out until 60 years of age. Holding the country to ransom, you've got a cheek ! Find out what's really on offer for us before you start blubbing just because you're not happy with you're situation. It's grossly unfair and even a 'Yorkie' munching lorry driver should be able to see that.[/p][/quote]Iam not a driver ! Merely stating that they are not allowed to take second jobs under the tacho rules etc ,as it's health and safety ,( so you ignore that fact !), just saying that you lot want your cake and eat it . And iam not saying that firefighters should not have respect in the job they do! But like the rest of us ,if you can't do the job ,change jobs ........as we have to ! Don't expect the rest of the country to pay for your early retirement . And yes I'll say it again .....you should be ashamed man ! To strike ! Peroni

6:34pm Wed 1 Jan 14

Not again !! says...

Peroni wrote:
Not again !! wrote:
Peroni wrote:
Not again !! wrote:
Abc1970 wrote:
Will anybody notice them on strike again tonight, probably not. I'm afraid to say I'm not in agreement with the strike action, I think it is alienating the fire service more than helping. Everybody in this country is being penalised in one way or another from the acts of a few greedy bankers and politicians, firefighters are no different but you don't see everyone else going on strike a couple of times a week and the calling the echo to tell them. Perhaps the fire service could look at saving some money to pay for their demands, such as regional fire services rather then county fire services, surely this will save a load of cash on management and admin. As the service is becoming quieter and quieter on a yearly basis, perhaps they should expand their retained personnel and reduce the full time ones, they all have other full time jobs as well, so won't be missing out on any money. I agree that the work they do is challenging and must become more challenging with age, but they are not the only ones who do physically demanding jobs and many others will not even have the option to retire at 60.
I notice you answer your own question regarding anybody noticing them on strike again and I'm afraid to say that you got the answer wrong. Quite funny really, bearing in mind it was your question !! At least you have put your point over in a way that I can at least follow which is more than I can say for most of the other comments so far.
The answer to your question 'will anybody notice', is unfortunately a resounding 'Yes'. This is a national strike and unfortunately someone, somewhere will notice. It most probably won't be you or even anyone you know, but someone, somewhere will be affected so please do not pretend that now, or at any time in the future we don't need a modern, fit fire service. It smacks of being selfish to think that 'I won't notice it, so it doesn't matter.'
Like you, most firefighters do not believe in or want to be out on strike. Who wants to start the year by having your wages cut but the FBU have been trying to get the Government to talk for years and there is nothing left to make them listen. If you think that being penalised due to the greed of bankers and politicians is fair and is the way forward, then we are singing from a different hymn sheet.
When you talk of making money savings I would have thought that this is slightly moving away from the matter of pensions and retirement ages. The fact remains that Dorset in particular is cut to the bone, under staffed and will soon be known as 'Witshire and Dorset Fire service.' This will result in many control room and backroom staff losing their jobs with very few savings with regard to management. The last Government wasted £500 million on regionalisation of control rooms before this incompetent government scrapped the idea. I'm not convinced that larger brigades provide a better service.
You say that the service is becoming quieter, but do not give your reasons as to why this is. You don't mention the home fire safety work carried out by full time crews, travelling to peoples homes, fitting free smoke detectors and giving fire safety advice. Maybe that's why things are getting quieter and your suggestion is to replace wholetimers with retained firefighters. Trust me if the Chief could have, he would have done so.
Not only are the retained cheaper, they do a full 2-3 hours training a week, they take much longer to attend fires ( not that you will be worried about this as it's not going to be you) and most week days they are not available. That means the fire engine sat on your retained station is useless. Fact !! They also do very little home fire safety work, if any.
If that's the modern fire service you want then 'you turkeys must keep voting for Christmas.' Whilst on the subject of 'reducing the full time ones' as you put it, my full time job is a firefighter, it is my only job. Should I wish to have a second job it has nothing to do with you or anyone else as long as I spend my 48 hours per tour on a fire station. If you want a second job working a night shift or maybe in a bar, go and do it. I really don't care and neither does anyone else.
At least you agree that the job is challenging, and to be fair some days are more challenging than others. What you need to bear in mind is that you need to be ready at all times. Nobody is trying to pretend that we are dragging people out of fires every day of the week, but it does happen and you do not want be be performing below par when that time comes. I am in my late 40's and beginning to find it difficult to keep up. Will I be able to do this at 60,, No chance, instead I will be dismissed on grounds of capability and wont get my massively reduced pension until the age of 68. A bit of a shocker when for the last 20 years I've been paying over £300 into a pension that meant I could retire at 55.
If you really are interested in why we are striking have a read of the Governments imposed deal which they have been unwilling to discuss over the last few years
www.gov.uk/governmen




t/publications/firef




ighters-pension-sche




me-heads-of-agreemen




t
If only we'd been on strike when the Olympics were on !!
Interesting that you defend your right to have a second job !
Does that relate to the drivers as well, out here HGV drivers are not allowed to take up a second job !
You want tax payers to fund you while prob 70% of the time your not actually working ! Retire when your 55 ! And earn more income on the side .
Right oh !!!!
And hold the country to ransom by striking !!!
Shame you !!!!!
I don't really know about HGV drivers not being allowed to have second jobs and why would I. It would be fair to assume that this may be for safety reasons, I don't know, but if that's your choice of profession good luck to you. Don't have a go at me just because you're not happy with your lot !
It appears that you would only want to pay firefighters for the time that putting out fires or cutting lorry drivers out of their wagons. Dream on, it's a fluffy World you live in. I would not expect anyone to spend 48 hours on a station away from their loved ones and not be paid for it. I think you would find if you knew anything about the modern fire service that a lot of our time is spent proactively preventing incidents.
As for tax payers funding me, I am a tax payer and I have no problem with paying for public services of which the fire service is a tiny part.
When I joined the fire service it was on a very poor salary with the added carrot of a decent pension after 30 years service. Nobody said they were going to change it after paying in for 20 years or that it would be very likely that you would be dismissed on grounds of capability if your old knees or back won't hold out until 60 years of age.
Holding the country to ransom, you've got a cheek ! Find out what's really on offer for us before you start blubbing just because you're not happy with you're situation. It's grossly unfair and even a 'Yorkie' munching lorry driver should be able to see that.
Iam not a driver ! Merely stating that they are not allowed to take second jobs under the tacho rules etc ,as it's health and safety ,( so you ignore that fact !), just saying that you lot want your cake and eat it .
And iam not saying that firefighters should not have respect in the job they do!
But like the rest of us ,if you can't do the job ,change jobs ........as we have to !
Don't expect the rest of the country to pay for your early retirement .
And yes I'll say it again .....you should be ashamed man ! To strike !
So why mention lorry drivers when the vast majority of employees have the right to have second jobs. I'm not sure which fact you say I am ignoring to be honest !
The cake that I want to eat is the one I've been paying into for the last 20 years and amounts to £350 of my hard earned cash every month. I expect to get what was put on the table when I signed up, nothing more, nothing less.
I'm not sure why you are saying ' if you can't do the job, change jobs !! Once again. a bit cheeky, you don't know me. I've been doing this job for 20 years and helped hundreds of people and my efforts along with my colleagues have most certainly saved peoples lives, so don't be telling me to leave the job I love and care about. I do my job professionally and always have.
It has always been considered that 55 is an appropriate age for a firefighter to retire and that is why we pay more than most into our pension. Most firefighters would not be able to carry out firefighting duties safely beyond this point. Some might be able to, but most couldn't as the Governments own figures show, just a pity they don't take note of their own advisers.
I am afraid to disappoint you but I am NOT ashamed to strike. I am saddened by it, but it is just wrong to change pension plan three quarters of the way through. If we all had your attitude and spent all our time shouting 'I don't get that so why should they get it', then we would all join that race to the bottom and your public services would be no where near as good as they are. It would appear that you and many others have issues with the way that public sector pensions are put together using taxpayers money.
This has been the case for many years and was always offset against a lower public salary than in the private sector. If that's the case then fine change the system but don't do right in the middle or near the end of a persons long running pension scheme. The Government introduced a new pension scheme around 2006 but are now trying to change it again.
Once again, I would ask if you really are interested take a look at the ridiculous offer that this Government are trying to impose on us. it's on the Gov website. If you haven't read it then you really shouldn't be commenting on here as you don't know how severe an attack it is. Oh yeah, read it twice too, it would appear they didn't want you to understand how bad it really is first time round !
[quote][p][bold]Peroni[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Not again !![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Peroni[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Not again !![/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Abc1970[/bold] wrote: Will anybody notice them on strike again tonight, probably not. I'm afraid to say I'm not in agreement with the strike action, I think it is alienating the fire service more than helping. Everybody in this country is being penalised in one way or another from the acts of a few greedy bankers and politicians, firefighters are no different but you don't see everyone else going on strike a couple of times a week and the calling the echo to tell them. Perhaps the fire service could look at saving some money to pay for their demands, such as regional fire services rather then county fire services, surely this will save a load of cash on management and admin. As the service is becoming quieter and quieter on a yearly basis, perhaps they should expand their retained personnel and reduce the full time ones, they all have other full time jobs as well, so won't be missing out on any money. I agree that the work they do is challenging and must become more challenging with age, but they are not the only ones who do physically demanding jobs and many others will not even have the option to retire at 60.[/p][/quote]I notice you answer your own question regarding anybody noticing them on strike again and I'm afraid to say that you got the answer wrong. Quite funny really, bearing in mind it was your question !! At least you have put your point over in a way that I can at least follow which is more than I can say for most of the other comments so far. The answer to your question 'will anybody notice', is unfortunately a resounding 'Yes'. This is a national strike and unfortunately someone, somewhere will notice. It most probably won't be you or even anyone you know, but someone, somewhere will be affected so please do not pretend that now, or at any time in the future we don't need a modern, fit fire service. It smacks of being selfish to think that 'I won't notice it, so it doesn't matter.' Like you, most firefighters do not believe in or want to be out on strike. Who wants to start the year by having your wages cut but the FBU have been trying to get the Government to talk for years and there is nothing left to make them listen. If you think that being penalised due to the greed of bankers and politicians is fair and is the way forward, then we are singing from a different hymn sheet. When you talk of making money savings I would have thought that this is slightly moving away from the matter of pensions and retirement ages. The fact remains that Dorset in particular is cut to the bone, under staffed and will soon be known as 'Witshire and Dorset Fire service.' This will result in many control room and backroom staff losing their jobs with very few savings with regard to management. The last Government wasted £500 million on regionalisation of control rooms before this incompetent government scrapped the idea. I'm not convinced that larger brigades provide a better service. You say that the service is becoming quieter, but do not give your reasons as to why this is. You don't mention the home fire safety work carried out by full time crews, travelling to peoples homes, fitting free smoke detectors and giving fire safety advice. Maybe that's why things are getting quieter and your suggestion is to replace wholetimers with retained firefighters. Trust me if the Chief could have, he would have done so. Not only are the retained cheaper, they do a full 2-3 hours training a week, they take much longer to attend fires ( not that you will be worried about this as it's not going to be you) and most week days they are not available. That means the fire engine sat on your retained station is useless. Fact !! They also do very little home fire safety work, if any. If that's the modern fire service you want then 'you turkeys must keep voting for Christmas.' Whilst on the subject of 'reducing the full time ones' as you put it, my full time job is a firefighter, it is my only job. Should I wish to have a second job it has nothing to do with you or anyone else as long as I spend my 48 hours per tour on a fire station. If you want a second job working a night shift or maybe in a bar, go and do it. I really don't care and neither does anyone else. At least you agree that the job is challenging, and to be fair some days are more challenging than others. What you need to bear in mind is that you need to be ready at all times. Nobody is trying to pretend that we are dragging people out of fires every day of the week, but it does happen and you do not want be be performing below par when that time comes. I am in my late 40's and beginning to find it difficult to keep up. Will I be able to do this at 60,, No chance, instead I will be dismissed on grounds of capability and wont get my massively reduced pension until the age of 68. A bit of a shocker when for the last 20 years I've been paying over £300 into a pension that meant I could retire at 55. If you really are interested in why we are striking have a read of the Governments imposed deal which they have been unwilling to discuss over the last few years www.gov.uk/governmen t/publications/firef ighters-pension-sche me-heads-of-agreemen t If only we'd been on strike when the Olympics were on !![/p][/quote]Interesting that you defend your right to have a second job ! Does that relate to the drivers as well, out here HGV drivers are not allowed to take up a second job ! You want tax payers to fund you while prob 70% of the time your not actually working ! Retire when your 55 ! And earn more income on the side . Right oh !!!! And hold the country to ransom by striking !!! Shame you !!!!![/p][/quote]I don't really know about HGV drivers not being allowed to have second jobs and why would I. It would be fair to assume that this may be for safety reasons, I don't know, but if that's your choice of profession good luck to you. Don't have a go at me just because you're not happy with your lot ! It appears that you would only want to pay firefighters for the time that putting out fires or cutting lorry drivers out of their wagons. Dream on, it's a fluffy World you live in. I would not expect anyone to spend 48 hours on a station away from their loved ones and not be paid for it. I think you would find if you knew anything about the modern fire service that a lot of our time is spent proactively preventing incidents. As for tax payers funding me, I am a tax payer and I have no problem with paying for public services of which the fire service is a tiny part. When I joined the fire service it was on a very poor salary with the added carrot of a decent pension after 30 years service. Nobody said they were going to change it after paying in for 20 years or that it would be very likely that you would be dismissed on grounds of capability if your old knees or back won't hold out until 60 years of age. Holding the country to ransom, you've got a cheek ! Find out what's really on offer for us before you start blubbing just because you're not happy with you're situation. It's grossly unfair and even a 'Yorkie' munching lorry driver should be able to see that.[/p][/quote]Iam not a driver ! Merely stating that they are not allowed to take second jobs under the tacho rules etc ,as it's health and safety ,( so you ignore that fact !), just saying that you lot want your cake and eat it . And iam not saying that firefighters should not have respect in the job they do! But like the rest of us ,if you can't do the job ,change jobs ........as we have to ! Don't expect the rest of the country to pay for your early retirement . And yes I'll say it again .....you should be ashamed man ! To strike ![/p][/quote]So why mention lorry drivers when the vast majority of employees have the right to have second jobs. I'm not sure which fact you say I am ignoring to be honest ! The cake that I want to eat is the one I've been paying into for the last 20 years and amounts to £350 of my hard earned cash every month. I expect to get what was put on the table when I signed up, nothing more, nothing less. I'm not sure why you are saying ' if you can't do the job, change jobs !! Once again. a bit cheeky, you don't know me. I've been doing this job for 20 years and helped hundreds of people and my efforts along with my colleagues have most certainly saved peoples lives, so don't be telling me to leave the job I love and care about. I do my job professionally and always have. It has always been considered that 55 is an appropriate age for a firefighter to retire and that is why we pay more than most into our pension. Most firefighters would not be able to carry out firefighting duties safely beyond this point. Some might be able to, but most couldn't as the Governments own figures show, just a pity they don't take note of their own advisers. I am afraid to disappoint you but I am NOT ashamed to strike. I am saddened by it, but it is just wrong to change pension plan three quarters of the way through. If we all had your attitude and spent all our time shouting 'I don't get that so why should they get it', then we would all join that race to the bottom and your public services would be no where near as good as they are. It would appear that you and many others have issues with the way that public sector pensions are put together using taxpayers money. This has been the case for many years and was always offset against a lower public salary than in the private sector. If that's the case then fine change the system but don't do right in the middle or near the end of a persons long running pension scheme. The Government introduced a new pension scheme around 2006 but are now trying to change it again. Once again, I would ask if you really are interested take a look at the ridiculous offer that this Government are trying to impose on us. it's on the Gov website. If you haven't read it then you really shouldn't be commenting on here as you don't know how severe an attack it is. Oh yeah, read it twice too, it would appear they didn't want you to understand how bad it really is first time round ! Not again !!

6:47pm Wed 1 Jan 14

Peroni says...

Allso a 48hr week away from loved ones lol.
Some people ( and yes in the public sector) would love to cut down to those hours .
Allso a 48hr week away from loved ones lol. Some people ( and yes in the public sector) would love to cut down to those hours . Peroni

8:33pm Wed 1 Jan 14

Not again !! says...

Peroni wrote:
Allso a 48hr week away from loved ones lol.
Some people ( and yes in the public sector) would love to cut down to those hours .
Sorry, obviously not important to you then. Let me know when you've caught up and once you've updated yourself on whats really going on.
Happy reading.
[quote][p][bold]Peroni[/bold] wrote: Allso a 48hr week away from loved ones lol. Some people ( and yes in the public sector) would love to cut down to those hours .[/p][/quote]Sorry, obviously not important to you then. Let me know when you've caught up and once you've updated yourself on whats really going on. Happy reading. Not again !!

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