Switching off streetlights won't cause more crime - but councils won't tell you where it's happening for safety reasons

COUNCIL chiefs are refusing to tell residents which of their streets will be plunged into darkness after midnight as part of a money saving drive.

Poole and Dorset councils say they are acting on police advice in refusing to say which lampposts will be shut off.

Now Dorset’s police and crime commissioner has intervened, promising to monitor residents’ concerns.

Both Poole and Dorset councils are controversially planning to switch off some lights after midnight in a bid to save cash and “reduce the carbon footprint”.

The Daily Echo submitted a Freedom of Information request to Borough of Poole and was refused the information on the grounds that the “need to protect the location of these properties is greater than the public test of making this information available to you”.

Dorset County Council has also refused to reveal maps which could show “sensitive information” and says the information is exempt from Freedom of Information legislation. Both councils say they are acting on police advice.

Martyn Underhill, Dorset’s Police and Crime Commissioner, has waded into the debate, pledging to monitor public concern over Dorset’s lights.

“I can understand that the street lighting issue is a concern to some residents and I have spoken twice to Dorset County Council’s chief executive Debbie Ward about the issue,” said Mr Underhill. “It is important to realise that it isn’t technically a policing issue, but one that is the remit of the county council.”

However he said if it transpired road safety or personal safety was an issue, that was his remit.

“While I have received some letters from the public I have not received sufficient correspondence for me to intervene with the council,” he said, adding he had taken into account the council agreeing to turn lights back on after a police request.

He said he would be monitoring the issues over three months “to establish whether the safety of Dorset residents is affected by the street lights being turned off”.

In Poole, Creekmoor resident Gerry Bolland was so concerned over safety at the prospect of lights in Woodpecker Drive being extinguished, he and his neighbours lobbied Borough of Poole and were victorious – their lights will stay on.

Mr Bolland, a former Bournemouth Council parking enforcement manager, criticised the council for attempting to “have their cake and eat it”.

“Residents should be told in advance,” he said.

“If they are saying this doesn’t represent a risk and doesn’t impact on crime levels not having lights, what’s the reason for not telling the public?”

THE county council began turning off almost 4,100 lights after midnight in areas of West Moors, Corfe Mullen, Ferndown and West Parley in early December, where there are no significant road safety and crime concerns.

In Poole 251 roads are included in phase two of a trial and their street lights will begin to be converted in February.

“We are not prepared to divulge the road names of the streets involved,” said Julian McLaughlin, head of transportation service, Borough of Poole. 

“Our discussions with the police confirmed that, although the likelihood of increased crime was low, it would be prudent to not publish the road names to reduce the potential for additional fear of crime.”

In Colehill, lights will stay on around traffic-calming chicanes after opposition. Lib Dem county councillor Janet Dover had described the plans as “unacceptable” and it has now been decided to leave lights on in Middlehill Road where road-narrowing traffic calming measures are in place.

Cllr Dover, who leads the Lib Dem group on Dorset County Council, told the Daily Echo: “We eventually had a very frank discussion and they said they would keep them lit after all. This is great news as there were real fears someone could get either seriously injured or worse.”

She said the traffic calming zone were “confusing enough in the daylight” and it would be “crazy to have them unlit”.

Martyn Underhill has asked people with views on street lighting to submit their comments to him by email at pcc@dorset.pnn.police.uk, by calling 01202 223966 or by writing to Martyn Underhill, Police and Crime Commissioner for Dorset, Force HQ, Winfrith, Dorset DT2 8DZ.

A Freedom of Information expert has denounced the secrecy over the switch-off as “absolute nonsense”.

The Borough of Poole has cited Section 31 of the Freedom of Information Act in refusing to release information about which streets will have their lights switched off.

Section 31 creates an exemption from the act if releasing information would prejudice the prevention or detection of crime. But David Scott, a media law trainer and consultant, said Poole’s stance was “nonsense”.

“The exemption under the act was never intended to cover such trivial things as this,” he said.
“The public have a right to know where the lights are going to be switched off. This is no more than an attempt to hide behind a piece of legislation.”

Comments (68)

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9:02am Mon 18 Feb 13

speedy231278 says...

Got to offset the cost of buying back the IMAX somehow.....
Got to offset the cost of buying back the IMAX somehow..... speedy231278

9:06am Mon 18 Feb 13

BIGTONE says...

Reducing carbon footprint?
What a load of cobblers!
Reducing carbon footprint? What a load of cobblers! BIGTONE

9:12am Mon 18 Feb 13

Buddles says...

How utterly ludicrous.

This is will be like a curfew. Walking down a pitch black road is asking for trouble: potential for muggings and worse. People tripping over kerbs or colliding with "street furniture".

At least tell the residents so that they can keep a small pocket torch with them. Some roads with no street lighting are so inky dark that you cannot even see your hand in front of your face.

It will not save any money. I hope that anybody who is injured or attacked will sue the local council.
How utterly ludicrous. This is will be like a curfew. Walking down a pitch black road is asking for trouble: potential for muggings and worse. People tripping over kerbs or colliding with "street furniture". At least tell the residents so that they can keep a small pocket torch with them. Some roads with no street lighting are so inky dark that you cannot even see your hand in front of your face. It will not save any money. I hope that anybody who is injured or attacked will sue the local council. Buddles

9:13am Mon 18 Feb 13

live-and-let-live says...

most people wont notice the lights are off as very few are out after midnight.
most people wont notice the lights are off as very few are out after midnight. live-and-let-live

9:23am Mon 18 Feb 13

The Timelord says...

Residents being kept in the dark as to whether or not their street lighting is going to be turned off after midnight? Bet they didn't see that one coming.....
Residents being kept in the dark as to whether or not their street lighting is going to be turned off after midnight? Bet they didn't see that one coming..... The Timelord

9:51am Mon 18 Feb 13

Old Colonial says...

"..........although the likelihood of increased crime was low, it would be prudent to not publish the road names to reduce the potential for additional fear of crime.” So let's get this straight; it is more important to prevent "The fear of crime" than it is the crime itself.

Now all we have to do is put the whole population on 'happy pills' and we can disband the police force.
"..........although the likelihood of increased crime was low, it would be prudent to not publish the road names to reduce the potential for additional fear of crime.” So let's get this straight; it is more important to prevent "The fear of crime" than it is the crime itself. Now all we have to do is put the whole population on 'happy pills' and we can disband the police force. Old Colonial

9:57am Mon 18 Feb 13

lemonhead says...

live-and-let-live wrote:
most people wont notice the lights are off as very few are out after midnight.
Except for the many people who work late at night and have to go home after midnight,no one has mentioned when they turned the lights of in some roads and the alleyways in Somerford,there were several muggings,this has got nothing to do with carbon footprints,it all about making more money for the fat cats in the council,and stuff the safety of the residents.And they have the cheek to increase the council tax in Christchurch this year,maybe we can get a refund as the lights are off at night.
[quote][p][bold]live-and-let-live[/bold] wrote: most people wont notice the lights are off as very few are out after midnight.[/p][/quote]Except for the many people who work late at night and have to go home after midnight,no one has mentioned when they turned the lights of in some roads and the alleyways in Somerford,there were several muggings,this has got nothing to do with carbon footprints,it all about making more money for the fat cats in the council,and stuff the safety of the residents.And they have the cheek to increase the council tax in Christchurch this year,maybe we can get a refund as the lights are off at night. lemonhead

10:12am Mon 18 Feb 13

In Absentia says...

speedy231278 wrote:
Got to offset the cost of buying back the IMAX somehow.....
I didn't realise that the IMAX was in Poole. Has it moved over the weekend?
[quote][p][bold]speedy231278[/bold] wrote: Got to offset the cost of buying back the IMAX somehow.....[/p][/quote]I didn't realise that the IMAX was in Poole. Has it moved over the weekend? In Absentia

10:18am Mon 18 Feb 13

BBC Escapee says...

That's strange, I,m sure that I remember when this was done in Christchuch, Dorset County Council had maps on their website showing which roads would be switched off!

If they are now saying it was not safe to do that they would appear to be now opening up a culpability and liability issue.

These Councils really do need to start doing some joined up thinking!
That's strange, I,m sure that I remember when this was done in Christchuch, Dorset County Council had maps on their website showing which roads would be switched off! If they are now saying it was not safe to do that they would appear to be now opening up a culpability and liability issue. These Councils really do need to start doing some joined up thinking! BBC Escapee

10:26am Mon 18 Feb 13

simcal says...

The Timelord wrote:
Residents being kept in the dark as to whether or not their street lighting is going to be turned off after midnight? Bet they didn't see that one coming.....
Funniest comment today, but it's early yet!
[quote][p][bold]The Timelord[/bold] wrote: Residents being kept in the dark as to whether or not their street lighting is going to be turned off after midnight? Bet they didn't see that one coming.....[/p][/quote]Funniest comment today, but it's early yet! simcal

10:27am Mon 18 Feb 13

muscliffman says...

BIGTONE wrote:
Reducing carbon footprint?
What a load of cobblers!
Quite, 'carbon warming'', climate footprint', and 'global change', you just know when you hear this scam language stuff someone in public office is making excuses for the dodgy misuse of our taxes on something.

But in this case yet again, surely it boils down to exactly who is the Master and who is the Servant. We are supposed to be in charge, not them.

Next Council Tax review let's all refrain from telling them how many bedrooms or conservatories we have. On the grounds of security of course - and to help the environment by not wasting paper!
[quote][p][bold]BIGTONE[/bold] wrote: Reducing carbon footprint? What a load of cobblers![/p][/quote]Quite, 'carbon warming'', climate footprint', and 'global change', you just know when you hear this scam language stuff someone in public office is making excuses for the dodgy misuse of our taxes on something. But in this case yet again, surely it boils down to exactly who is the Master and who is the Servant. We are supposed to be in charge, not them. Next Council Tax review let's all refrain from telling them how many bedrooms or conservatories we have. On the grounds of security of course - and to help the environment by not wasting paper! muscliffman

10:41am Mon 18 Feb 13

Dorset_Born_n_Bread ! says...

Also points also to observe?

1) How will this affect and possibly increase the liabilty and insurance claims against the local authority for people falling/injuring themselves in badly maintained walkways and streets while poorly lit?

2) WHY is the local authority not looking into replacing its poor/inefficient lighting with new technology and cheaper LED lighting? Rather than pulling the plug and having knock on effects in safety/security and other factors.

Maybe there is enough gases flowing around the town hall to go back to gaslight instead?

http://www.trafficte
chnologytoday.com/ne
ws.php?NewsID=44740

:D
Also points also to observe? 1) How will this affect and possibly increase the liabilty and insurance claims against the local authority for people falling/injuring themselves in badly maintained walkways and streets while poorly lit? 2) WHY is the local authority not looking into replacing its poor/inefficient lighting with new technology and cheaper LED lighting? Rather than pulling the plug and having knock on effects in safety/security and other factors. Maybe there is enough gases flowing around the town hall to go back to gaslight instead? http://www.trafficte chnologytoday.com/ne ws.php?NewsID=44740 :D Dorset_Born_n_Bread !

10:46am Mon 18 Feb 13

Teddy 1 says...

I hope the echo challenge the refusal to release the information through the information commissioners office. The council may want to 'protect' properties but surely those impacted by this supposedly money saving plan have a right to know.

I would guess the police don't want people to know which lights are going off as it will impact 'fear of crime' statistics. If fear of crime goes up they will soon change their stance I would think.

Also, I wonder how the 30mph limits will be enforced if you are in a built up area but can't see lamp posts as the lights are all off? Serious point!

As an aside, I thought the lamps were being turned back on in some parts of Weymouth due to increased crime.
I hope the echo challenge the refusal to release the information through the information commissioners office. The council may want to 'protect' properties but surely those impacted by this supposedly money saving plan have a right to know. I would guess the police don't want people to know which lights are going off as it will impact 'fear of crime' statistics. If fear of crime goes up they will soon change their stance I would think. Also, I wonder how the 30mph limits will be enforced if you are in a built up area but can't see lamp posts as the lights are all off? Serious point! As an aside, I thought the lamps were being turned back on in some parts of Weymouth due to increased crime. Teddy 1

10:47am Mon 18 Feb 13

Dorset_Born_n_Bread ! says...

ps. I have a point.

My mother tripped and fell in a street in Poole on a hole in the pavement where the street light was broken. Diagnosed the next day as concussion, one week later she died from brain aneurysm.

Sad but true. We were told we had no grounds for claim against the local authority as the broken light was not reported to them after the incident.

HOW IN HELL does NO LIGHTS TO SAVE MONEY prevent this type of accident in the future?
ps. I have a point. My mother tripped and fell in a street in Poole on a hole in the pavement where the street light was broken. Diagnosed the next day as concussion, one week later she died from brain aneurysm. Sad but true. We were told we had no grounds for claim against the local authority as the broken light was not reported to them after the incident. HOW IN HELL does NO LIGHTS TO SAVE MONEY prevent this type of accident in the future? Dorset_Born_n_Bread !

10:49am Mon 18 Feb 13

rayc says...

I don't really understand the headline. "Switching off the streetlights won't cause more crime" - that's ok then, but what are the "safety reasons" for not disclosing the locations.
The Councils appear to be saying there are safety implications associated with turning them off - what are they?
Hiding behind the FIA section 31 is a joke and is just an attempt to ward of criticism.
I don't really understand the headline. "Switching off the streetlights won't cause more crime" - that's ok then, but what are the "safety reasons" for not disclosing the locations. The Councils appear to be saying there are safety implications associated with turning them off - what are they? Hiding behind the FIA section 31 is a joke and is just an attempt to ward of criticism. rayc

10:51am Mon 18 Feb 13

Mamma Troll says...

wont someone think of the lightbulbs!
wont someone think of the lightbulbs! Mamma Troll

11:08am Mon 18 Feb 13

John T says...

The Timelord wrote:
Residents being kept in the dark as to whether or not their street lighting is going to be turned off after midnight? Bet they didn't see that one coming.....
There's not mush room for comment on the turnip heads at Poole Council when we, the Council taxpayers are treated like mushrooms...kept in the dark and fed nothing but sh.t!
[quote][p][bold]The Timelord[/bold] wrote: Residents being kept in the dark as to whether or not their street lighting is going to be turned off after midnight? Bet they didn't see that one coming.....[/p][/quote]There's not mush room for comment on the turnip heads at Poole Council when we, the Council taxpayers are treated like mushrooms...kept in the dark and fed nothing but sh.t! John T

11:14am Mon 18 Feb 13

Rustynails says...

So, when it happens, after night 1, we can put the names of the streets whos lights have been turned off on here... Or can we !!!!!
So, when it happens, after night 1, we can put the names of the streets whos lights have been turned off on here... Or can we !!!!! Rustynails

11:16am Mon 18 Feb 13

Linguist says...

I still don't understand why they don't just double the size of area that they are turning the lights off, but only turning every other one off ?
I still don't understand why they don't just double the size of area that they are turning the lights off, but only turning every other one off ? Linguist

11:16am Mon 18 Feb 13

ldc says...

So Tory councils eventually can't afford their electric bill after Thatchers privatisation - does the penny drop - no - more privatisation more we are tories !!
So Tory councils eventually can't afford their electric bill after Thatchers privatisation - does the penny drop - no - more privatisation more we are tories !! ldc

11:17am Mon 18 Feb 13

gerbil112 says...

So, surely the criminals will just drive around until they encounter a residential street with no lights on. After a few drive throughs they'll soon get the idea which ones are turned off every night and pass the word around. It's not rocket science! Maybe this comment will be removed in case it puts an idea into a crims head, if they've not already thought of it...
So, surely the criminals will just drive around until they encounter a residential street with no lights on. After a few drive throughs they'll soon get the idea which ones are turned off every night and pass the word around. It's not rocket science! Maybe this comment will be removed in case it puts an idea into a crims head, if they've not already thought of it... gerbil112

11:57am Mon 18 Feb 13

live-and-let-live says...

19 comments before someone blamed MRS Thatcher.
19 comments before someone blamed MRS Thatcher. live-and-let-live

11:57am Mon 18 Feb 13

justsayithowitis says...

Linguist wrote:
I still don't understand why they don't just double the size of area that they are turning the lights off, but only turning every other one off ?
Requires someone to use their brain
[quote][p][bold]Linguist[/bold] wrote: I still don't understand why they don't just double the size of area that they are turning the lights off, but only turning every other one off ?[/p][/quote]Requires someone to use their brain justsayithowitis

12:04pm Mon 18 Feb 13

aerolover says...

I wonder how many councillor s street lights will be turn off. Perhaps we should start with theirs and see how crime doesn't go up then proceed with the scheme. If it does go up the we can say told you so and they will be the ones who have to suffer not us. Or is it one rule for the plebs and one for the elected representatives?
I wonder how many councillor s street lights will be turn off. Perhaps we should start with theirs and see how crime doesn't go up then proceed with the scheme. If it does go up the we can say told you so and they will be the ones who have to suffer not us. Or is it one rule for the plebs and one for the elected representatives? aerolover

12:12pm Mon 18 Feb 13

The Liberal says...

Surely it will have a greater bearing on public safety if people DON'T know which lights are being switched off so that they know to carry a torch? Stupid council.
Surely it will have a greater bearing on public safety if people DON'T know which lights are being switched off so that they know to carry a torch? Stupid council. The Liberal

12:13pm Mon 18 Feb 13

The Liberal says...

gerbil112 wrote:
So, surely the criminals will just drive around until they encounter a residential street with no lights on. After a few drive throughs they'll soon get the idea which ones are turned off every night and pass the word around. It's not rocket science! Maybe this comment will be removed in case it puts an idea into a crims head, if they've not already thought of it...
Shhh… you're endangering public safety! Free speech (and information) must be banned.
[quote][p][bold]gerbil112[/bold] wrote: So, surely the criminals will just drive around until they encounter a residential street with no lights on. After a few drive throughs they'll soon get the idea which ones are turned off every night and pass the word around. It's not rocket science! Maybe this comment will be removed in case it puts an idea into a crims head, if they've not already thought of it...[/p][/quote]Shhh… you're endangering public safety! Free speech (and information) must be banned. The Liberal

12:39pm Mon 18 Feb 13

jobsworthwatch says...

Turn the lights off at the town hall and send everyone home, THAT really would save some money!
Turn the lights off at the town hall and send everyone home, THAT really would save some money! jobsworthwatch

1:02pm Mon 18 Feb 13

John T says...

The Liberal wrote:
gerbil112 wrote:
So, surely the criminals will just drive around until they encounter a residential street with no lights on. After a few drive throughs they'll soon get the idea which ones are turned off every night and pass the word around. It's not rocket science! Maybe this comment will be removed in case it puts an idea into a crims head, if they've not already thought of it...
Shhh… you're endangering public safety! Free speech (and information) must be banned.
Careless Talk Costs Lives;
Careless Walk in the dark Costs Nothing...or so the Council think...until the compensation claims come in, that is..
[quote][p][bold]The Liberal[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]gerbil112[/bold] wrote: So, surely the criminals will just drive around until they encounter a residential street with no lights on. After a few drive throughs they'll soon get the idea which ones are turned off every night and pass the word around. It's not rocket science! Maybe this comment will be removed in case it puts an idea into a crims head, if they've not already thought of it...[/p][/quote]Shhh… you're endangering public safety! Free speech (and information) must be banned.[/p][/quote]Careless Talk Costs Lives; Careless Walk in the dark Costs Nothing...or so the Council think...until the compensation claims come in, that is.. John T

1:11pm Mon 18 Feb 13

corozin says...

I bet the Bournemouth Council Offices will continue to be lit up like Wembley Stadium on a match night.
I bet the Bournemouth Council Offices will continue to be lit up like Wembley Stadium on a match night. corozin

1:14pm Mon 18 Feb 13

BBC Escapee says...

jobsworthwatch wrote:
Turn the lights off at the town hall and send everyone home, THAT really would save some money!
Ha, the lights are on but nobody's been at home at Clown Hall for a long time!
[quote][p][bold]jobsworthwatch[/bold] wrote: Turn the lights off at the town hall and send everyone home, THAT really would save some money![/p][/quote]Ha, the lights are on but nobody's been at home at Clown Hall for a long time! BBC Escapee

1:16pm Mon 18 Feb 13

muscliffman says...

jobsworthwatch wrote:
Turn the lights off at the town hall and send everyone home, THAT really would save some money!
Nice try but no it would not, think it through.

These are public-sector workers, so they would simply remain on full pay and benefits - wherever you send them!
[quote][p][bold]jobsworthwatch[/bold] wrote: Turn the lights off at the town hall and send everyone home, THAT really would save some money![/p][/quote]Nice try but no it would not, think it through. These are public-sector workers, so they would simply remain on full pay and benefits - wherever you send them! muscliffman

1:46pm Mon 18 Feb 13

Rodney Trotter says...

justsayithowitis wrote:
Linguist wrote:
I still don't understand why they don't just double the size of area that they are turning the lights off, but only turning every other one off ?
Requires someone to use their brain
They do this in Spain and it was very well.
[quote][p][bold]justsayithowitis[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Linguist[/bold] wrote: I still don't understand why they don't just double the size of area that they are turning the lights off, but only turning every other one off ?[/p][/quote]Requires someone to use their brain[/p][/quote]They do this in Spain and it was very well. Rodney Trotter

3:00pm Mon 18 Feb 13

speedy231278 says...

Why not have sensitive lights? When an object of more than a certain size that has a heat signature is detected moving within a particular distance, the light comes on for say 30 secs. Of course, the cost of detectors would be more than the saving, but the council would still say they were saving money....
Why not have sensitive lights? When an object of more than a certain size that has a heat signature is detected moving within a particular distance, the light comes on for say 30 secs. Of course, the cost of detectors would be more than the saving, but the council would still say they were saving money.... speedy231278

3:08pm Mon 18 Feb 13

In Absentia says...

I can remember a time when the street lights were always switched off at around midnight or 1 am. Having them on for 24 hours per day is only something that's happened for about the last 25 years or so. Why not switch them off if there's no evidence that keeping them on reduces crime?

Personally, I'd prefer a bit less light pollution.
I can remember a time when the street lights were always switched off at around midnight or 1 am. Having them on for 24 hours per day is only something that's happened for about the last 25 years or so. Why not switch them off if there's no evidence that keeping them on reduces crime? Personally, I'd prefer a bit less light pollution. In Absentia

3:21pm Mon 18 Feb 13

Telscombe Cliffy says...

Dorset_Born_n_Bread ! wrote:
Also points also to observe?

1) How will this affect and possibly increase the liabilty and insurance claims against the local authority for people falling/injuring themselves in badly maintained walkways and streets while poorly lit?

2) WHY is the local authority not looking into replacing its poor/inefficient lighting with new technology and cheaper LED lighting? Rather than pulling the plug and having knock on effects in safety/security and other factors.

Maybe there is enough gases flowing around the town hall to go back to gaslight instead?

http://www.trafficte

chnologytoday.com/ne

ws.php?NewsID=44740

:D
I'm afraid carbon dioxide won't burn
[quote][p][bold]Dorset_Born_n_Bread ![/bold] wrote: Also points also to observe? 1) How will this affect and possibly increase the liabilty and insurance claims against the local authority for people falling/injuring themselves in badly maintained walkways and streets while poorly lit? 2) WHY is the local authority not looking into replacing its poor/inefficient lighting with new technology and cheaper LED lighting? Rather than pulling the plug and having knock on effects in safety/security and other factors. Maybe there is enough gases flowing around the town hall to go back to gaslight instead? http://www.trafficte chnologytoday.com/ne ws.php?NewsID=44740 :D[/p][/quote]I'm afraid carbon dioxide won't burn Telscombe Cliffy

3:34pm Mon 18 Feb 13

Dont drop litter says...

I grew up in the 70's in a small village. There were no street lights at all but we still managed to walk the dog in the evening without tripping over. Just get a torch. Cars have headlights too - assuming you have a bulb in them (not too many people seem able to do that).
I don't know what all the fuss is about. Turning off streetlights won't cause a rise in crime - it's the theiving scumbags that do that and not even CCTV is a deterent so i hardly think the streetlights make a difference..
I think turning off half the lights on the dual carriageway would be a good idea too.
I grew up in the 70's in a small village. There were no street lights at all but we still managed to walk the dog in the evening without tripping over. Just get a torch. Cars have headlights too - assuming you have a bulb in them (not too many people seem able to do that). I don't know what all the fuss is about. Turning off streetlights won't cause a rise in crime - it's the theiving scumbags that do that and not even CCTV is a deterent so i hardly think the streetlights make a difference.. I think turning off half the lights on the dual carriageway would be a good idea too. Dont drop litter

4:09pm Mon 18 Feb 13

O'Reilly says...

Heaven forfend....these people will be closing the Public Conveniencies next to save money. Oh hang on!!! They tried that some years ago....
Heaven forfend....these people will be closing the Public Conveniencies next to save money. Oh hang on!!! They tried that some years ago.... O'Reilly

4:18pm Mon 18 Feb 13

clamfather says...

I am currently awaiting replies to two emails sent to my county councillor, P. Finney, requesting information on the cost of changing the photo electric sensor on lamps turned off. Further information was also requested on the alternatives considered, ie LEDS which could save up to 90% in power usage. No acknowledgement or reply recieved to date. Perhaps we need to remind the 'Cabinet Member' of his responsibility to represent constituents and respect their legitimate requests particularly with an election due in May. Having lamps throughout the county with different sensors merely means more useless and needless record keeping. This freedom of information ruse is just an excuse contrived by cowards frightened that their incompetence will be exposed.
I am currently awaiting replies to two emails sent to my county councillor, P. Finney, requesting information on the cost of changing the photo electric sensor on lamps turned off. Further information was also requested on the alternatives considered, ie LEDS which could save up to 90% in power usage. No acknowledgement or reply recieved to date. Perhaps we need to remind the 'Cabinet Member' of his responsibility to represent constituents and respect their legitimate requests particularly with an election due in May. Having lamps throughout the county with different sensors merely means more useless and needless record keeping. This freedom of information ruse is just an excuse contrived by cowards frightened that their incompetence will be exposed. clamfather

4:32pm Mon 18 Feb 13

KLH says...

Regarding not naming where the lights are turned off to avoid crime, bet anything you like that any tealeafs living in those very streets will pass the word around - after they've had the best pickings!
Regarding not naming where the lights are turned off to avoid crime, bet anything you like that any tealeafs living in those very streets will pass the word around - after they've had the best pickings! KLH

4:32pm Mon 18 Feb 13

KLH says...

Regarding not naming where the lights are turned off to avoid crime, bet anything you like that any tealeafs living in those very streets will pass the word around - after they've had the best pickings!
Regarding not naming where the lights are turned off to avoid crime, bet anything you like that any tealeafs living in those very streets will pass the word around - after they've had the best pickings! KLH

4:40pm Mon 18 Feb 13

ShuttleX says...

clamfather wrote:
I am currently awaiting replies to two emails sent to my county councillor, P. Finney, requesting information on the cost of changing the photo electric sensor on lamps turned off. Further information was also requested on the alternatives considered, ie LEDS which could save up to 90% in power usage. No acknowledgement or reply recieved to date. Perhaps we need to remind the 'Cabinet Member' of his responsibility to represent constituents and respect their legitimate requests particularly with an election due in May. Having lamps throughout the county with different sensors merely means more useless and needless record keeping. This freedom of information ruse is just an excuse contrived by cowards frightened that their incompetence will be exposed.
You can either write to Mr Finney direct,

Mr Peter Finney
Holly Tree Cottage
Colehill Lane
Broomhill
Dorset BH21 7AR

Or make a formal complaint against him, That usually gets their attention.
[quote][p][bold]clamfather[/bold] wrote: I am currently awaiting replies to two emails sent to my county councillor, P. Finney, requesting information on the cost of changing the photo electric sensor on lamps turned off. Further information was also requested on the alternatives considered, ie LEDS which could save up to 90% in power usage. No acknowledgement or reply recieved to date. Perhaps we need to remind the 'Cabinet Member' of his responsibility to represent constituents and respect their legitimate requests particularly with an election due in May. Having lamps throughout the county with different sensors merely means more useless and needless record keeping. This freedom of information ruse is just an excuse contrived by cowards frightened that their incompetence will be exposed.[/p][/quote]You can either write to Mr Finney direct, Mr Peter Finney Holly Tree Cottage Colehill Lane Broomhill Dorset BH21 7AR Or make a formal complaint against him, That usually gets their attention. ShuttleX

5:42pm Mon 18 Feb 13

Phixer says...

aerolover wrote:
I wonder how many councillor s street lights will be turn off. Perhaps we should start with theirs and see how crime doesn't go up then proceed with the scheme. If it does go up the we can say told you so and they will be the ones who have to suffer not us. Or is it one rule for the plebs and one for the elected representatives?
The short answer is 'yes'. Who owns the street lights? You and I do. Who are the paymasters for those who 'wont tell'? You and I. Seems time for a change in payroll.
[quote][p][bold]aerolover[/bold] wrote: I wonder how many councillor s street lights will be turn off. Perhaps we should start with theirs and see how crime doesn't go up then proceed with the scheme. If it does go up the we can say told you so and they will be the ones who have to suffer not us. Or is it one rule for the plebs and one for the elected representatives?[/p][/quote]The short answer is 'yes'. Who owns the street lights? You and I do. Who are the paymasters for those who 'wont tell'? You and I. Seems time for a change in payroll. Phixer

7:22pm Mon 18 Feb 13

Nifty Nurse says...

The lights have been switched off in our road for about 5 weeks now-my only problem was that we were not told in advance so it was a bit of a surprise. It helps to know if you're going to need a torch to find your front door. However, there have been no problems - they don't have lights in the countryside but the residents there manage to get about and although a bit strange when you're suddenly plunged into darkness, it feels normal after just a short time. If we're going to be late home we'll leave a light on. Of course it remains to be seen if this has an impact on crime. However, I think it's important not to turn lights back on just because of 'those who shout the loudest' The case for keeping lights on in Middlehill Road in Colehill was quite clearly a safety issue but it should be the same rule for all.
The lights have been switched off in our road for about 5 weeks now-my only problem was that we were not told in advance so it was a bit of a surprise. It helps to know if you're going to need a torch to find your front door. However, there have been no problems - they don't have lights in the countryside but the residents there manage to get about and although a bit strange when you're suddenly plunged into darkness, it feels normal after just a short time. If we're going to be late home we'll leave a light on. Of course it remains to be seen if this has an impact on crime. However, I think it's important not to turn lights back on just because of 'those who shout the loudest' The case for keeping lights on in Middlehill Road in Colehill was quite clearly a safety issue but it should be the same rule for all. Nifty Nurse

8:45pm Mon 18 Feb 13

phonehome says...

Why do we need a map?

Wont the streets without lights be the dark ones?
Why do we need a map? Wont the streets without lights be the dark ones? phonehome

9:00pm Mon 18 Feb 13

scrumpyjack says...

lemonhead wrote:
live-and-let-live wrote:
most people wont notice the lights are off as very few are out after midnight.
Except for the many people who work late at night and have to go home after midnight,no one has mentioned when they turned the lights of in some roads and the alleyways in Somerford,there were several muggings,this has got nothing to do with carbon footprints,it all about making more money for the fat cats in the council,and stuff the safety of the residents.And they have the cheek to increase the council tax in Christchurch this year,maybe we can get a refund as the lights are off at night.
i love a rant against the council as much as the next man but 'its all about more money for the fat cats'?
[quote][p][bold]lemonhead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]live-and-let-live[/bold] wrote: most people wont notice the lights are off as very few are out after midnight.[/p][/quote]Except for the many people who work late at night and have to go home after midnight,no one has mentioned when they turned the lights of in some roads and the alleyways in Somerford,there were several muggings,this has got nothing to do with carbon footprints,it all about making more money for the fat cats in the council,and stuff the safety of the residents.And they have the cheek to increase the council tax in Christchurch this year,maybe we can get a refund as the lights are off at night.[/p][/quote]i love a rant against the council as much as the next man but 'its all about more money for the fat cats'? scrumpyjack

9:02pm Mon 18 Feb 13

Dibbles2 says...

phonehome wrote:
Why do we need a map?

Wont the streets without lights be the dark ones?
Thats what I thought !

I live on a road that has a double set of lights so switching one set off wont have an effect really. Come to think of it not actually sure why we have them anyway! Perhaps those are the areas they inten on targeting in which case it wouldnt harm to tell people surely? It might prompt a few people to get their car headlights fixed as it seems they are plenty on the road ike it!
[quote][p][bold]phonehome[/bold] wrote: Why do we need a map? Wont the streets without lights be the dark ones?[/p][/quote]Thats what I thought ! I live on a road that has a double set of lights so switching one set off wont have an effect really. Come to think of it not actually sure why we have them anyway! Perhaps those are the areas they inten on targeting in which case it wouldnt harm to tell people surely? It might prompt a few people to get their car headlights fixed as it seems they are plenty on the road ike it! Dibbles2

9:09pm Mon 18 Feb 13

Dibbles2 says...

KLH wrote:
Regarding not naming where the lights are turned off to avoid crime, bet anything you like that any tealeafs living in those very streets will pass the word around - after they've had the best pickings!
But surely its your reponsibility to ensure your home is secure and not the councils? Most cars have alarms and sat navs etc are stolen because they are left on display. This happens in any area and is more likely to happen under a street light because thats how the thief spots it in the first place. Chavs running round shining torches in cars are more likely to get caught.
[quote][p][bold]KLH[/bold] wrote: Regarding not naming where the lights are turned off to avoid crime, bet anything you like that any tealeafs living in those very streets will pass the word around - after they've had the best pickings![/p][/quote]But surely its your reponsibility to ensure your home is secure and not the councils? Most cars have alarms and sat navs etc are stolen because they are left on display. This happens in any area and is more likely to happen under a street light because thats how the thief spots it in the first place. Chavs running round shining torches in cars are more likely to get caught. Dibbles2

9:17pm Mon 18 Feb 13

Seabeam says...

It's all an evil conspiracy to make us buy torches.
It's all an evil conspiracy to make us buy torches. Seabeam

9:20pm Mon 18 Feb 13

GAHmusic says...

Brian Cox will be chuffed
Brian Cox will be chuffed GAHmusic

10:43pm Mon 18 Feb 13

miniminime says...

The Timelord wrote:
Residents being kept in the dark as to whether or not their street lighting is going to be turned off after midnight? Bet they didn't see that one coming.....
Residents in Poole were told when theirs were going off so not being kept in the dark!
[quote][p][bold]The Timelord[/bold] wrote: Residents being kept in the dark as to whether or not their street lighting is going to be turned off after midnight? Bet they didn't see that one coming.....[/p][/quote]Residents in Poole were told when theirs were going off so not being kept in the dark! miniminime

5:00am Tue 19 Feb 13

Nigel Blumenthal says...

I find it difficult to comprehend why these councils are being so irresponsible, and with our money. Local residents have an absolute right to know which streets will remain dark after nightfall, and the pathetic excuses given to the Echo's FOI request are just pure bureaucratic dog poo.

I suggest another FOI request, to find out how much the estimated savings of these dangerous actions will amount to, and how much does the average police and health service response to a knife attack in a dark street cost.
I find it difficult to comprehend why these councils are being so irresponsible, and with our money. Local residents have an absolute right to know which streets will remain dark after nightfall, and the pathetic excuses given to the Echo's FOI request are just pure bureaucratic dog poo. I suggest another FOI request, to find out how much the estimated savings of these dangerous actions will amount to, and how much does the average police and health service response to a knife attack in a dark street cost. Nigel Blumenthal

6:05am Tue 19 Feb 13

EGHH says...

I'm feed up with the local councils treating us Council Tax payers as cash cows. We pay for the ruddy lights and I want to know when my street will be shut off so I can withhold a portion of my CT as I'm not going to pay for a service I'm not getting. I suggest residents in the streets affected to do the same until the Councils realise who holds the purse strings.
I'm feed up with the local councils treating us Council Tax payers as cash cows. We pay for the ruddy lights and I want to know when my street will be shut off so I can withhold a portion of my CT as I'm not going to pay for a service I'm not getting. I suggest residents in the streets affected to do the same until the Councils realise who holds the purse strings. EGHH

9:42am Tue 19 Feb 13

Mikeyunibournemouth says...

In Absentia wrote:
speedy231278 wrote:
Got to offset the cost of buying back the IMAX somehow.....
I didn't realise that the IMAX was in Poole. Has it moved over the weekend?
They've dismantled it now and reassembled it on Poole quay... lol
[quote][p][bold]In Absentia[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]speedy231278[/bold] wrote: Got to offset the cost of buying back the IMAX somehow.....[/p][/quote]I didn't realise that the IMAX was in Poole. Has it moved over the weekend?[/p][/quote]They've dismantled it now and reassembled it on Poole quay... lol Mikeyunibournemouth

9:42am Tue 19 Feb 13

BIGTONE says...

EGHH wrote:
I'm feed up with the local councils treating us Council Tax payers as cash cows. We pay for the ruddy lights and I want to know when my street will be shut off so I can withhold a portion of my CT as I'm not going to pay for a service I'm not getting. I suggest residents in the streets affected to do the same until the Councils realise who holds the purse strings.
They don't give a **** for taxpayers. They are too full of themselves now.
Untouchable.


I would imagine the cost of installing time clocks into street columns will be substantial. They used to have but they were all removed for photo cells.It's ok if you have 6 or 10 columns loop fed but most small residential roads will have individual mains supply to the column increasing the cost of installation.

Local authorities will spend £100 to save £1. Its not their money.You all should know that by now
[quote][p][bold]EGHH[/bold] wrote: I'm feed up with the local councils treating us Council Tax payers as cash cows. We pay for the ruddy lights and I want to know when my street will be shut off so I can withhold a portion of my CT as I'm not going to pay for a service I'm not getting. I suggest residents in the streets affected to do the same until the Councils realise who holds the purse strings.[/p][/quote]They don't give a **** for taxpayers. They are too full of themselves now. Untouchable. I would imagine the cost of installing time clocks into street columns will be substantial. They used to have but they were all removed for photo cells.It's ok if you have 6 or 10 columns loop fed but most small residential roads will have individual mains supply to the column increasing the cost of installation. Local authorities will spend £100 to save £1. Its not their money.You all should know that by now BIGTONE

11:07am Tue 19 Feb 13

awsokend says...

It wont affect me I've been practicing
going out late at night with my eyes shut
and wearing a blindfold
with my head in a bucket.
It wont affect me I've been practicing going out late at night with my eyes shut and wearing a blindfold with my head in a bucket. awsokend

11:28am Tue 19 Feb 13

Bournesouthmouth Downpokes says...

Cue increase in sexual assaults.

Stepping in dog mess too.
Cue increase in sexual assaults. Stepping in dog mess too. Bournesouthmouth Downpokes

8:08pm Tue 19 Feb 13

TerreHaute says...

Bournesouthmouth Downpokes wrote:
Cue increase in sexual assaults.

Stepping in dog mess too.
I hate stepping in dog mess...
[quote][p][bold]Bournesouthmouth Downpokes[/bold] wrote: Cue increase in sexual assaults. Stepping in dog mess too.[/p][/quote]I hate stepping in dog mess... TerreHaute

8:31pm Tue 19 Feb 13

Black Pirate says...

Once again when they could save money at Fleetsbridge they chose not to and again at the Civic Centre when turning the traffic lights actually make the roads safer and traffic flow better. If you don't believe this go and look at the success they are having in London. It's the narrowed lanes that are causing tailbacks!

Leave the street lights for the poor pedestrians and cyclists alone. But hey its Poole and we all know from the recent report what our Highways dept think about pedestrians and cyclists!
Once again when they could save money at Fleetsbridge they chose not to and again at the Civic Centre when turning the traffic lights actually make the roads safer and traffic flow better. If you don't believe this go and look at the success they are having in London. It's the narrowed lanes that are causing tailbacks! Leave the street lights for the poor pedestrians and cyclists alone. But hey its Poole and we all know from the recent report what our Highways dept think about pedestrians and cyclists! Black Pirate

8:38pm Tue 19 Feb 13

jadair says...

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


Totally agree with the post above !

As a resident in one of the blackout roads i have now contacted the dorset police crime commissioner with lots of concerns regarding this ludicrous action !

Your all be pleased to know that a poole councillor that lives in the same road as me still enjoys a street light outside her house !!!

Angry does not come close !
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Totally agree with the post above ! As a resident in one of the blackout roads i have now contacted the dorset police crime commissioner with lots of concerns regarding this ludicrous action ! Your all be pleased to know that a poole councillor that lives in the same road as me still enjoys a street light outside her house !!! Angry does not come close ! jadair

12:09am Wed 20 Feb 13

deanmatthews1966 says...

Some of your comments on this matter were the best chuckle I've had all day.
Some of your comments on this matter were the best chuckle I've had all day. deanmatthews1966

8:13am Wed 20 Feb 13

awsokend says...

Your all be pleased to know that a Poole Councillor that lives in the same road as me still enjoys a street light outside her house !!! Angry does not come close !

sounds like jealousy get over it, its a sin.
ask your landlord to fit you a security light.
Your all be pleased to know that a Poole Councillor that lives in the same road as me still enjoys a street light outside her house !!! Angry does not come close ! sounds like jealousy get over it, its a sin. ask your landlord to fit you a security light. awsokend

8:27am Wed 20 Feb 13

awsokend says...

lighten up
lighten up awsokend

3:31pm Wed 20 Feb 13

Matthew_Y says...

Will insurance companies start increasing the premiums for households that are in areas where street lighting is turned of for much of the night?
Will insurance companies start increasing the premiums for households that are in areas where street lighting is turned of for much of the night? Matthew_Y

4:52pm Fri 22 Feb 13

MngsMnr says...

If turning off street lights doesn't lead to an increase in crime, why have the council/police now put posters on street lamps warning of car break-ins and thieves in the area?
If turning off street lights doesn't lead to an increase in crime, why have the council/police now put posters on street lamps warning of car break-ins and thieves in the area? MngsMnr

8:22pm Sat 23 Feb 13

randson112 says...

its a shame we in poole have councilors who live in the dark ages, replacing a few of them might help
its a shame we in poole have councilors who live in the dark ages, replacing a few of them might help randson112

4:28pm Sun 24 Feb 13

Dawdie says...

Maybe turn off a lot of lights along carriageways, cars can use their own lights? Also lose a lot of town lights, you don't need so many after 1am. A lot of houses already have sensor lights, and also better locks. Most people will be in bed, only thugs and the unfortunate homeless should be out in the night, but shops do stay open so workers are around. Nights are getting shorter, so it won't take long to be light again. Save money.. We ALL need to pull in the purse strings.. I've worked nights for over 27 years, Lights don't stop burglars!
Maybe turn off a lot of lights along carriageways, cars can use their own lights? Also lose a lot of town lights, you don't need so many after 1am. A lot of houses already have sensor lights, and also better locks. Most people will be in bed, only thugs and the unfortunate homeless should be out in the night, but shops do stay open so workers are around. Nights are getting shorter, so it won't take long to be light again. Save money.. We ALL need to pull in the purse strings.. I've worked nights for over 27 years, Lights don't stop burglars! Dawdie

12:58am Mon 25 Feb 13

leoniekenna says...

I think this is hillarious. New York and Las Vegas are lit up to the extreme, and their councils don't seem to have a problem.
Why don't Poole council just use energy saving bulbs?
Street lights are there for a reason. SAFETY! People can see where they are going, and cars can clearly see at night too. I've driven on pitch black roads, have had to use full beam and normally blinded someone unintentionally coming round a bend. What a nightmare. Turning off the lights will cause more accidents, higher crime, and possibly death. It's a shame the electric bills are so high otherwise i'd suggest everyone keep their house lights on to light the streets up, but why should residents do that? Poole council should be responsible and think of peoples safety. If i trip or have an accident on the road due to poor lighting, i will very much enjoy sueing the council and i hope others do too! Disgusting behaviour from the "council" who are meant to be providing a good service to it's residents. Epic Fail!
I think this is hillarious. New York and Las Vegas are lit up to the extreme, and their councils don't seem to have a problem. Why don't Poole council just use energy saving bulbs? Street lights are there for a reason. SAFETY! People can see where they are going, and cars can clearly see at night too. I've driven on pitch black roads, have had to use full beam and normally blinded someone unintentionally coming round a bend. What a nightmare. Turning off the lights will cause more accidents, higher crime, and possibly death. It's a shame the electric bills are so high otherwise i'd suggest everyone keep their house lights on to light the streets up, but why should residents do that? Poole council should be responsible and think of peoples safety. If i trip or have an accident on the road due to poor lighting, i will very much enjoy sueing the council and i hope others do too! Disgusting behaviour from the "council" who are meant to be providing a good service to it's residents. Epic Fail! leoniekenna

3:59pm Wed 6 Mar 13

concerned of ferndown says...

Four nights after our street lights were switched off, we had two cars set on fire in the same road on the same night. Also, according to police who attended another two cars in Ferndown were also set alight. Are resources being made available for extra police presence in our area due to lighting being switched off I wonder.
Four nights after our street lights were switched off, we had two cars set on fire in the same road on the same night. Also, according to police who attended another two cars in Ferndown were also set alight. Are resources being made available for extra police presence in our area due to lighting being switched off I wonder. concerned of ferndown

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