UPDATED: Poole council set to "dodge democracy" by raising council tax

Bournemouth Echo: Elaine Atkinson Elaine Atkinson

POOLE council is likely to put up its council tax by 1.95 per cent this year – incurring the wrath of cabinet minister Eric Pickles.

The communities secretary has hit out at councils which set rises just under two per cent – the figure that would force them to put the rise to a referendum - accusing them of "dodging democracy".

Mr Pickles said "those who put up their stealth tax by 1.99 per cent in a bid to avoid our two per cent referendum threshold need a reality check''.

But Borough of Poole leader Cllr Elaine Atkinson has joined other Conservative council leaders in rounding on the secretary.

Cllr Atkinson said the council had budgeted for an increase of 1.95 per cent.

She said the council was the fourth worst funded unitary authority in the country and received 44 per cent less in grants than the average unitary authority.

“We’ve got the lowest council tax in Dorset for a band D property. Even if we increase council tax, we would still be the lowest council tax for a band D property,” she said.

She said of Mr Pickles' comments: “It’s exasperating. I as leader of the council and leaders of other councils are making representations to Mr Pickles about his sweeping statements.

“Austerity is being delivered by local authorities, it isn’t being delivered from Whitehall, it’s being delivered in local towns and cities.”

The government has required councils who want to put up their share of the tax by more than two per cent to call a referendum. Mr Pickles says some are planning to put up the tax by 1.99 per cent, or increase the waste and transport elements which lawyers say may not be covered by the cap.

Bournemouth council is hoping to freeze its council tax when it sets the budget next month, its leader has said.

Cllr John Beesley told the Daily Echo: “I hope and expect Bournemouth's financial position will be good enough to resist any increase in council tax.”

The council has frozen its share of the tax bill for the last two years.

He stressed that the police and fire share of the bill would rise.

“It isn't the whole of the bill that's determined by the local council. The fire and police precepts are a part of the council tax bill,” he said.

“The police have already indicated they will be putting that up by close to the limit. The government have given Dorset Fire Authority permission to raise their precept by far more than the two per cent - something like eight per cent.

“Mr Pickles' own department have given them permission to do that.”

Cllr Beesley added: “Residents need to be aware that the government have cut our grant funding by near 30 per cent in the space of four years.

“Local government is a fine example of how to deal with an efficiency and transformation agenda without cutting services. The government would have a great deal to learn from the way that Bournemouth in particular has managed that process.”

Mr Pickles said of this year's bills that ''those who put up their stealth tax by 1.99 per cent in a bid to avoid our two per cent referendum threshold need a reality check''.

''We will take into consideration anybody cheating their taxpayers,'' he said. ''Anybody using loopholes will lose out next year.''

He went on: ''What residents really want is cuts to taxes not bin collections; potholes filled not pockets. Councils that put their people first will get the idea.”

Cllr Spencer Flower, cabinet member for resources at Dorset County Council, said the county was likely to freeze council tax.

“I think all the signs are that we will probably freeze it although I also think it’s up to members to make that judgement. I don’t think it’s helpful at all that Eric Pickles feels it’s appropriate to stick an oar in,” he said.

He said the two per cent rule was a clear boundary and Mr Pickles could not complain when councils set rises of 1.99 per cent.

“It’s only the rule he’s set. I don’t think it’s a loophole at all,” he said.

“All local government has been through the mill to help central government deal with the financial deficit.”

He said if this year’s budget was approved, the council would have saved around £60million a year from a budget of around £300m since the spending squeeze began. “In very proud of what we’ve managed achieve with a minimum impact on communities,” he added.

And he said East Dorset District Council, which he leads, had saved £2.25m against an expected £1.5m by working more closely with Christchurch.

“If central government had achieved as much as local government, we’d have made a bigger debt in the national deficit,” he added.

Dorset’s chief fire officer Darren Gunter said the rules allowed authorities who were in the bottom quartile for council tax to put up their bills by up to £5 a year. That would equate to an eight per cent rise.

He said a freeze in council tax would mean a cut to front-line services. The authority had been consulting the public and its recommendations on what to do about council tax would be made public on February 14.

He said the service had suffered a 14 per cent cut in government grant. “We haven’t put up council tax for the last two years,” he said.

Comments (45)

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11:58am Mon 28 Jan 13

rayc says...

Don't worry, Councils have always found ways to get that little bit more by using the powers given to them by Central Government.
The latest one for London Councils is Litter Fines. http://www.bbc.co.uk
/news/uk-england-lon
don-21200058
Don't worry, Councils have always found ways to get that little bit more by using the powers given to them by Central Government. The latest one for London Councils is Litter Fines. http://www.bbc.co.uk /news/uk-england-lon don-21200058 rayc

12:08pm Mon 28 Jan 13

muscliffman says...

Read this from Cllr Beesley again please.

“Local government is a fine example of how to deal with an efficiency and transformation agenda without cutting services. The government would have a great deal to learn from the way that Bournemouth in particular has managed that process.”

Priceless!

Someone call the nurse.
Read this from Cllr Beesley again please. “Local government is a fine example of how to deal with an efficiency and transformation agenda without cutting services. The government would have a great deal to learn from the way that Bournemouth in particular has managed that process.” Priceless! Someone call the nurse. muscliffman

12:23pm Mon 28 Jan 13

HRH of Boscombe says...

rayc wrote:
Don't worry, Councils have always found ways to get that little bit more by using the powers given to them by Central Government. The latest one for London Councils is Litter Fines. http://www.bbc.co.uk /news/uk-england-lon don-21200058
Have you seen the streets of Islington? Fair play to their Council.
[quote][p][bold]rayc[/bold] wrote: Don't worry, Councils have always found ways to get that little bit more by using the powers given to them by Central Government. The latest one for London Councils is Litter Fines. http://www.bbc.co.uk /news/uk-england-lon don-21200058[/p][/quote]Have you seen the streets of Islington? Fair play to their Council. HRH of Boscombe

12:26pm Mon 28 Jan 13

rayc says...

Cllr Spencer Flower said "East Dorset District Council, which he leads, had saved £2.25m against an expected £1.5m by working more closely with Christchurch".

Mr Pickles was quite right then, there was plenty of scope to save money in Local Government. The question has to be why were East Dorset District Council putting up Council Tax year on year when there was the potential to make savings?
Cllr Spencer Flower said "East Dorset District Council, which he leads, had saved £2.25m against an expected £1.5m by working more closely with Christchurch". Mr Pickles was quite right then, there was plenty of scope to save money in Local Government. The question has to be why were East Dorset District Council putting up Council Tax year on year when there was the potential to make savings? rayc

12:33pm Mon 28 Jan 13

rayc says...

HRH of Boscombe wrote:
rayc wrote:
Don't worry, Councils have always found ways to get that little bit more by using the powers given to them by Central Government. The latest one for London Councils is Litter Fines. http://www.bbc.co.uk /news/uk-england-lon don-21200058
Have you seen the streets of Islington? Fair play to their Council.
Fair enough.
The Magistrate's Association believes the situation is dangerous saying ""Private companies don't report to anybody, the public can't question it - there's very limited appeal provisions."

Still if you do nothing wrong you'll have nothing to worry about. Just don't drop a pen by accident or let your toddler drop a crisp.
[quote][p][bold]HRH of Boscombe[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]rayc[/bold] wrote: Don't worry, Councils have always found ways to get that little bit more by using the powers given to them by Central Government. The latest one for London Councils is Litter Fines. http://www.bbc.co.uk /news/uk-england-lon don-21200058[/p][/quote]Have you seen the streets of Islington? Fair play to their Council.[/p][/quote]Fair enough. The Magistrate's Association believes the situation is dangerous saying ""Private companies don't report to anybody, the public can't question it - there's very limited appeal provisions." Still if you do nothing wrong you'll have nothing to worry about. Just don't drop a pen by accident or let your toddler drop a crisp. rayc

12:51pm Mon 28 Jan 13

l'anglais says...

Council Tax payers contribute about 20% to the annual budgets of your local councils.

So when you next see your bin being emptied, say a big thank you to those high earners from the Home Counties.

Income Tax and VAT pay for 4/5ths of your local services.
Council Tax payers contribute about 20% to the annual budgets of your local councils. So when you next see your bin being emptied, say a big thank you to those high earners from the Home Counties. Income Tax and VAT pay for 4/5ths of your local services. l'anglais

12:53pm Mon 28 Jan 13

In Absentia says...

Eric Pickes is a total buffoon. If you set a target, the first thing people will do is look at the ways to get round them. It happens all the time in any big business or public body.

He should have set the threshold lower if he'd wanted lower increases in council tax bills. What did he really expect?
Eric Pickes is a total buffoon. If you set a target, the first thing people will do is look at the ways to get round them. It happens all the time in any big business or public body. He should have set the threshold lower if he'd wanted lower increases in council tax bills. What did he really expect? In Absentia

1:31pm Mon 28 Jan 13

muscliffman says...

rayc wrote:
Cllr Spencer Flower said "East Dorset District Council, which he leads, had saved £2.25m against an expected £1.5m by working more closely with Christchurch".

Mr Pickles was quite right then, there was plenty of scope to save money in Local Government. The question has to be why were East Dorset District Council putting up Council Tax year on year when there was the potential to make savings?
Because in classic public sector manner, particularly under Labour (bank rolled by public-sector Unions), they were able to help themselves to it for risk free fat-cat salaries and gold-plated pensions.

That is where so much of our tax is going I am afraid.
[quote][p][bold]rayc[/bold] wrote: Cllr Spencer Flower said "East Dorset District Council, which he leads, had saved £2.25m against an expected £1.5m by working more closely with Christchurch". Mr Pickles was quite right then, there was plenty of scope to save money in Local Government. The question has to be why were East Dorset District Council putting up Council Tax year on year when there was the potential to make savings?[/p][/quote]Because in classic public sector manner, particularly under Labour (bank rolled by public-sector Unions), they were able to help themselves to it for risk free fat-cat salaries and gold-plated pensions. That is where so much of our tax is going I am afraid. muscliffman

2:10pm Mon 28 Jan 13

BmthNewshound says...

muscliffman wrote:
Read this from Cllr Beesley again please.

“Local government is a fine example of how to deal with an efficiency and transformation agenda without cutting services. The government would have a great deal to learn from the way that Bournemouth in particular has managed that process.”

Priceless!

Someone call the nurse.
Cllr Beesley is completely deluded. He's bankrupting the town by using up the reserves to finance his warped view of efficiency and transformation. The £millions he's squandered is breathtaking.
.
Problem is people in the town don't care. Most can't be bothered to vote. One of the reasons the Council is so keen on allowing the building of retirement flats is that they know that a higher proportion of retired people vote and the ones with the money to move into these complexes will vote for Beelsey and his cronies.
.
Personally I think Poole is doing the right thing. 1.95% is a very modest increase but will prevent the need for a bigger increase in future years. Most people understand that services have to be paid for. Expecting Councils to have a referendum to increase council tax is ridiculous, they'd cost a fortune to organise and most people wouldn't bother to vote. Its a bit rich the government expecting councils to have a referendum before putting up taxes when the chancellor does it with no public consultation everytime he announces tax increase in the budget.
[quote][p][bold]muscliffman[/bold] wrote: Read this from Cllr Beesley again please. “Local government is a fine example of how to deal with an efficiency and transformation agenda without cutting services. The government would have a great deal to learn from the way that Bournemouth in particular has managed that process.” Priceless! Someone call the nurse.[/p][/quote]Cllr Beesley is completely deluded. He's bankrupting the town by using up the reserves to finance his warped view of efficiency and transformation. The £millions he's squandered is breathtaking. . Problem is people in the town don't care. Most can't be bothered to vote. One of the reasons the Council is so keen on allowing the building of retirement flats is that they know that a higher proportion of retired people vote and the ones with the money to move into these complexes will vote for Beelsey and his cronies. . Personally I think Poole is doing the right thing. 1.95% is a very modest increase but will prevent the need for a bigger increase in future years. Most people understand that services have to be paid for. Expecting Councils to have a referendum to increase council tax is ridiculous, they'd cost a fortune to organise and most people wouldn't bother to vote. Its a bit rich the government expecting councils to have a referendum before putting up taxes when the chancellor does it with no public consultation everytime he announces tax increase in the budget. BmthNewshound

2:22pm Mon 28 Jan 13

paul.p says...

Why is the Police precept going up if Dorset Police are making Officers redundant?

I still think the Fire Brigade precept should be connected with the House Insurance in some way.

The way things are going people will wonder what the heck they're paying out for...one day...if they can bothered.
Why is the Police precept going up if Dorset Police are making Officers redundant? I still think the Fire Brigade precept should be connected with the House Insurance in some way. The way things are going people will wonder what the heck they're paying out for...one day...if they can bothered. paul.p

2:36pm Mon 28 Jan 13

nobbjockie says...

Poole Council - gutless...they will be using the motorist as the financial sledgehammer as usual.......or will Cllr Dion, portfolio holder for everything in the borough and the whole wide world, be listening to the people.....not!
Poole Council - gutless...they will be using the motorist as the financial sledgehammer as usual.......or will Cllr Dion, portfolio holder for everything in the borough and the whole wide world, be listening to the people.....not! nobbjockie

2:44pm Mon 28 Jan 13

HRH of Boscombe says...

rayc wrote:
HRH of Boscombe wrote:
rayc wrote: Don't worry, Councils have always found ways to get that little bit more by using the powers given to them by Central Government. The latest one for London Councils is Litter Fines. http://www.bbc.co.uk /news/uk-england-lon don-21200058
Have you seen the streets of Islington? Fair play to their Council.
Fair enough. The Magistrate's Association believes the situation is dangerous saying ""Private companies don't report to anybody, the public can't question it - there's very limited appeal provisions." Still if you do nothing wrong you'll have nothing to worry about. Just don't drop a pen by accident or let your toddler drop a crisp.
On the same point though private companies have no way to enforce their fines even if they do find someone stupid enough to give them their details.
.
I would do it just to bait one of them to try. Unfortunately they know that too and will just pick easy targets.
[quote][p][bold]rayc[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]HRH of Boscombe[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]rayc[/bold] wrote: Don't worry, Councils have always found ways to get that little bit more by using the powers given to them by Central Government. The latest one for London Councils is Litter Fines. http://www.bbc.co.uk /news/uk-england-lon don-21200058[/p][/quote]Have you seen the streets of Islington? Fair play to their Council.[/p][/quote]Fair enough. The Magistrate's Association believes the situation is dangerous saying ""Private companies don't report to anybody, the public can't question it - there's very limited appeal provisions." Still if you do nothing wrong you'll have nothing to worry about. Just don't drop a pen by accident or let your toddler drop a crisp.[/p][/quote]On the same point though private companies have no way to enforce their fines even if they do find someone stupid enough to give them their details. . I would do it just to bait one of them to try. Unfortunately they know that too and will just pick easy targets. HRH of Boscombe

2:51pm Mon 28 Jan 13

HRH of Boscombe says...

'lowest council tax for a band D property'? Great most other towns don't have Sandbanks or Lilliput as a colossal cash cow though.
.
No mention of the income they provide the council which many other towns don't have.
'lowest council tax for a band D property'? Great most other towns don't have Sandbanks or Lilliput as a colossal cash cow though. . No mention of the income they provide the council which many other towns don't have. HRH of Boscombe

3:15pm Mon 28 Jan 13

cmci2012 says...

We all need to pull together and say NO! This has obviously come about because they are getting less funding from the Government so instead of cutting back like everyone else is doing they just pass it onto us and raise their prices. They said they wouldnt put up Council Tax but again they lied. You might not think 1.95 per cent is alot but it just puts more stress on people, but the main thing here is people are not given the choice! As soon as you buy or rent and move in somewhere there they are demanding money of say £130 - £150 a month without even discussing it with you. This is alot of money to have to find each month but they don't care, they do not ask if you can afford it, or even if you want their service. If I sent you a bill tomorrow saying you had to pay me £130 a month you'd tell me where to go! I cant afford a £45 a month phone contract so I dont have one, I cant afford to pay high heating costs so I dont use my storage heaters, I cant afford to drive my car everywhere so I dont. The point is these are my choices but I dont have that choice with Council Tax, I cant choose a lower tariff. And now its going up, ok 1.95 percent isn’t a big rise and to me its about £20 a year but I’d rather spend that £20 on a food shop of ESSENTIALS!!! Of course I know that we need some services but we should have a choice of what we pay for, I have no children so have no need for education, I should have a CHOICE! Last year Poole council spent around £12k on Olympic decorations (only for them to be stolen!), do people really think that this is an acceptable expenditure when for many people even paying their food or heating is a struggle. And as for the MP's last year Lib Dem MP for Mid Dorset and North Poole, Annette Brooke claimed £14,527.86 in expenses which included rent, mobile phone bills and TV licence! And now they have the nerve to put up our bills again and sneakily just under the 2 per cent so we have no say in it! Poole council need to do what the rest of us do and cut back! But no….greedy parasites is what they are, take from the people and line their own pockets!
We all need to pull together and say NO! This has obviously come about because they are getting less funding from the Government so instead of cutting back like everyone else is doing they just pass it onto us and raise their prices. They said they wouldnt put up Council Tax but again they lied. You might not think 1.95 per cent is alot but it just puts more stress on people, but the main thing here is people are not given the choice! As soon as you buy or rent and move in somewhere there they are demanding money of say £130 - £150 a month without even discussing it with you. This is alot of money to have to find each month but they don't care, they do not ask if you can afford it, or even if you want their service. If I sent you a bill tomorrow saying you had to pay me £130 a month you'd tell me where to go! I cant afford a £45 a month phone contract so I dont have one, I cant afford to pay high heating costs so I dont use my storage heaters, I cant afford to drive my car everywhere so I dont. The point is these are my choices but I dont have that choice with Council Tax, I cant choose a lower tariff. And now its going up, ok 1.95 percent isn’t a big rise and to me its about £20 a year but I’d rather spend that £20 on a food shop of ESSENTIALS!!! Of course I know that we need some services but we should have a choice of what we pay for, I have no children so have no need for education, I should have a CHOICE! Last year Poole council spent around £12k on Olympic decorations (only for them to be stolen!), do people really think that this is an acceptable expenditure when for many people even paying their food or heating is a struggle. And as for the MP's last year Lib Dem MP for Mid Dorset and North Poole, Annette Brooke claimed £14,527.86 in expenses which included rent, mobile phone bills and TV licence! And now they have the nerve to put up our bills again and sneakily just under the 2 per cent so we have no say in it! Poole council need to do what the rest of us do and cut back! But no….greedy parasites is what they are, take from the people and line their own pockets! cmci2012

3:16pm Mon 28 Jan 13

The Renegade Master says...

Typical greedy Council, shafting it's residents out of every penny they can, while the fat cat Council hierarchy get rich at our expense.
What new money making schemes do the powers that be have in store for us this year? Raise parking charges further? Paint more double yellow lines all over the place and buy a couple more parking cars? Encourage the local constabulary to forget catching criminals and concentrate their efforts on penalising the motorist for profit? Oh whoops, they've already done most of that. Oh well, I'm sure they'll think of something to keep their snouts in the trough.
Typical greedy Council, shafting it's residents out of every penny they can, while the fat cat Council hierarchy get rich at our expense. What new money making schemes do the powers that be have in store for us this year? Raise parking charges further? Paint more double yellow lines all over the place and buy a couple more parking cars? Encourage the local constabulary to forget catching criminals and concentrate their efforts on penalising the motorist for profit? Oh whoops, they've already done most of that. Oh well, I'm sure they'll think of something to keep their snouts in the trough. The Renegade Master

3:31pm Mon 28 Jan 13

djkent says...

this is terrible there are other councils that are worst funded east dorset is the worst funded in the country yet they can budget better the fatcats have wasted money all those people that are being squeezed because that women and the rest of the rich council lot can get more money how much are they on they dont mention that do they too busy claiming they are poor council even though they have sandbanks and branksome park lot on the highest tax band anyone in poole should protest if they are the only lot to see an increase
this is terrible there are other councils that are worst funded east dorset is the worst funded in the country yet they can budget better the fatcats have wasted money all those people that are being squeezed because that women and the rest of the rich council lot can get more money how much are they on they dont mention that do they too busy claiming they are poor council even though they have sandbanks and branksome park lot on the highest tax band anyone in poole should protest if they are the only lot to see an increase djkent

3:57pm Mon 28 Jan 13

BIGTONE says...

Here is another way of looking at this. Since Council tax was introduced from rateable value it has increased approx £50 each and every year. Would you allow that yearly increase if we still had rateable value to pay? I doubt it.
Another thing to bear in mind is apart from obvious rising costs of services etc. what have the Councils really achieved to make our lives better and easier now they are awash with our money?
Here is another way of looking at this. Since Council tax was introduced from rateable value it has increased approx £50 each and every year. Would you allow that yearly increase if we still had rateable value to pay? I doubt it. Another thing to bear in mind is apart from obvious rising costs of services etc. what have the Councils really achieved to make our lives better and easier now they are awash with our money? BIGTONE

4:40pm Mon 28 Jan 13

Hessenford says...

1.95% may not sound much but when wages are either not rising or only rising by 1%, gas and electric rises of around 10%, petrol and diesel around £1.39 per litre plus income tax and vat 1.95% is a hell of a lot.
This country is heading for a triple dip recession, is it any wonder when every one is taxed to death.
The more we are taxed the less we have to spend doesn't any idiot know this.
The united Kingdom will be in a sorry state for years as long as we have people running our local councils using us as a cash cow to pay for their luxury's.
1.95% may not sound much but when wages are either not rising or only rising by 1%, gas and electric rises of around 10%, petrol and diesel around £1.39 per litre plus income tax and vat 1.95% is a hell of a lot. This country is heading for a triple dip recession, is it any wonder when every one is taxed to death. The more we are taxed the less we have to spend doesn't any idiot know this. The united Kingdom will be in a sorry state for years as long as we have people running our local councils using us as a cash cow to pay for their luxury's. Hessenford

4:56pm Mon 28 Jan 13

apm1954 says...

come on cllr atkinson speak up for poole 44% lower funding than the average unitary , nothing has changed has it happy to be elected wont speak out against there party, think poole for a change not party politics.
come on cllr atkinson speak up for poole 44% lower funding than the average unitary , nothing has changed has it happy to be elected wont speak out against there party, think poole for a change not party politics. apm1954

5:04pm Mon 28 Jan 13

John T says...

Some may consider that a 1.95% increase in Council Tax may not amount to much, but it is on top of the equivalent of a 3% Council Tax increase to have green bins collected and in excess of 5% increase in parking charges, not to mention Poole Council's other increased 'stealth' taxes.
These Conservatives need reminding of their local Election mantra, i.e. 'Enough is Enough'.
Some may consider that a 1.95% increase in Council Tax may not amount to much, but it is on top of the equivalent of a 3% Council Tax increase to have green bins collected and in excess of 5% increase in parking charges, not to mention Poole Council's other increased 'stealth' taxes. These Conservatives need reminding of their local Election mantra, i.e. 'Enough is Enough'. John T

5:06pm Mon 28 Jan 13

rayc says...

HRH of Boscombe wrote:
rayc wrote:
HRH of Boscombe wrote:
rayc wrote: Don't worry, Councils have always found ways to get that little bit more by using the powers given to them by Central Government. The latest one for London Councils is Litter Fines. http://www.bbc.co.uk /news/uk-england-lon don-21200058
Have you seen the streets of Islington? Fair play to their Council.
Fair enough. The Magistrate's Association believes the situation is dangerous saying ""Private companies don't report to anybody, the public can't question it - there's very limited appeal provisions." Still if you do nothing wrong you'll have nothing to worry about. Just don't drop a pen by accident or let your toddler drop a crisp.
On the same point though private companies have no way to enforce their fines even if they do find someone stupid enough to give them their details.
.
I would do it just to bait one of them to try. Unfortunately they know that too and will just pick easy targets.
I think you will find that these companies are working on behalf of the Council and the council have the power to put you in front of a Magistrate if you do not pay the Penalty Charge. It is similar to refusing to pay a council issued parking ticket.
[quote][p][bold]HRH of Boscombe[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]rayc[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]HRH of Boscombe[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]rayc[/bold] wrote: Don't worry, Councils have always found ways to get that little bit more by using the powers given to them by Central Government. The latest one for London Councils is Litter Fines. http://www.bbc.co.uk /news/uk-england-lon don-21200058[/p][/quote]Have you seen the streets of Islington? Fair play to their Council.[/p][/quote]Fair enough. The Magistrate's Association believes the situation is dangerous saying ""Private companies don't report to anybody, the public can't question it - there's very limited appeal provisions." Still if you do nothing wrong you'll have nothing to worry about. Just don't drop a pen by accident or let your toddler drop a crisp.[/p][/quote]On the same point though private companies have no way to enforce their fines even if they do find someone stupid enough to give them their details. . I would do it just to bait one of them to try. Unfortunately they know that too and will just pick easy targets.[/p][/quote]I think you will find that these companies are working on behalf of the Council and the council have the power to put you in front of a Magistrate if you do not pay the Penalty Charge. It is similar to refusing to pay a council issued parking ticket. rayc

5:20pm Mon 28 Jan 13

John T says...

It looks as if Poole Conservatives are getting themselves into some right old Pickles!
Where did all our reserves go??
It looks as if Poole Conservatives are getting themselves into some right old Pickles! Where did all our reserves go?? John T

5:43pm Mon 28 Jan 13

s-pb2 says...

This seems sensible to me. The huge rising costs in social care, which is possibly the biggest expense to the council, and the record numbers of adults needing help as well even more vulnerable children in the system then ever before, means the money has to come from somewhere. If central government are contributing less and less then the burden of caring for the vulnerable in society has to fall on the local authorities, and some of those costs can run into the thousands to just care for 1 vulnerable adult or child every month. Councils are having to turn to more money making schemes to help cover these areas, e.g like mentioned before the fining of litter louts etc
This seems sensible to me. The huge rising costs in social care, which is possibly the biggest expense to the council, and the record numbers of adults needing help as well even more vulnerable children in the system then ever before, means the money has to come from somewhere. If central government are contributing less and less then the burden of caring for the vulnerable in society has to fall on the local authorities, and some of those costs can run into the thousands to just care for 1 vulnerable adult or child every month. Councils are having to turn to more money making schemes to help cover these areas, e.g like mentioned before the fining of litter louts etc s-pb2

6:22pm Mon 28 Jan 13

nobbjockie says...

apm1954 wrote:
come on cllr atkinson speak up for poole 44% lower funding than the average unitary , nothing has changed has it happy to be elected wont speak out against there party, think poole for a change not party politics.
As I said...gutless, all of them!
[quote][p][bold]apm1954[/bold] wrote: come on cllr atkinson speak up for poole 44% lower funding than the average unitary , nothing has changed has it happy to be elected wont speak out against there party, think poole for a change not party politics.[/p][/quote]As I said...gutless, all of them! nobbjockie

6:38pm Mon 28 Jan 13

Dr Strangelove says...

Two friends of mine live in Poole town. They have had their residence parking charge shoot up over the past couple of years. I think they're writing to Mr Pickles because its one of those stealth rises that he has talked about.
Two friends of mine live in Poole town. They have had their residence parking charge shoot up over the past couple of years. I think they're writing to Mr Pickles because its one of those stealth rises that he has talked about. Dr Strangelove

6:38pm Mon 28 Jan 13

guisselle says...

nobbjockie wrote:
apm1954 wrote:
come on cllr atkinson speak up for poole 44% lower funding than the average unitary , nothing has changed has it happy to be elected wont speak out against there party, think poole for a change not party politics.
As I said...gutless, all of them!
Disgraceful traitor we need a local
representative!
[quote][p][bold]nobbjockie[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]apm1954[/bold] wrote: come on cllr atkinson speak up for poole 44% lower funding than the average unitary , nothing has changed has it happy to be elected wont speak out against there party, think poole for a change not party politics.[/p][/quote]As I said...gutless, all of them![/p][/quote]Disgraceful traitor we need a local representative! guisselle

6:40pm Mon 28 Jan 13

DUCKFEEDER says...

if you aren't happy with the council, vote them out.
if you are happy with the council vote them in.
and if you can't be bothered to vote don't moan
if you aren't happy with the council, vote them out. if you are happy with the council vote them in. and if you can't be bothered to vote don't moan DUCKFEEDER

6:47pm Mon 28 Jan 13

davidhaz says...

hardly anyone votes at council elections. Its a joke. Voting should be mandatory in Britain. The reason its not is that there would have to be a "no confidence" option and the gov knows so many people would chose this causing complete political change and removing LibLabCon from power
hardly anyone votes at council elections. Its a joke. Voting should be mandatory in Britain. The reason its not is that there would have to be a "no confidence" option and the gov knows so many people would chose this causing complete political change and removing LibLabCon from power davidhaz

6:54pm Mon 28 Jan 13

Carolyn43 says...

DUCKFEEDER wrote:
if you aren't happy with the council, vote them out.
if you are happy with the council vote them in.
and if you can't be bothered to vote don't moan
Unfortunately a council can't be voted OUT. You can only vote FOR someone, not against them. They wouldn't dare allow that!
[quote][p][bold]DUCKFEEDER[/bold] wrote: if you aren't happy with the council, vote them out. if you are happy with the council vote them in. and if you can't be bothered to vote don't moan[/p][/quote]Unfortunately a council can't be voted OUT. You can only vote FOR someone, not against them. They wouldn't dare allow that! Carolyn43

7:17pm Mon 28 Jan 13

tramp_about_town says...

I think that all councils are amazing and the job they do is fantastic. They serve such deserving people and the public sector workers are also all really amazing. I think we should be looking at paying more tax so that these amazing people can all be recognised for their amazing work they do for all the deserving people that are unable to afford to pay in to the system. Wages need to be increased as well as pensions and also benefits. in fact everything needs to go up.....wages, pensions, benefits and tax....hazar hazar long live the amazing people. I feel so humbled to be surrounded by the amazing when all I can do is contribute.
I think that all councils are amazing and the job they do is fantastic. They serve such deserving people and the public sector workers are also all really amazing. I think we should be looking at paying more tax so that these amazing people can all be recognised for their amazing work they do for all the deserving people that are unable to afford to pay in to the system. Wages need to be increased as well as pensions and also benefits. in fact everything needs to go up.....wages, pensions, benefits and tax....hazar hazar long live the amazing people. I feel so humbled to be surrounded by the amazing when all I can do is contribute. tramp_about_town

8:03pm Mon 28 Jan 13

Hobad1 says...

tramp_about_town wrote:
I think that all councils are amazing and the job they do is fantastic. They serve such deserving people and the public sector workers are also all really amazing. I think we should be looking at paying more tax so that these amazing people can all be recognised for their amazing work they do for all the deserving people that are unable to afford to pay in to the system. Wages need to be increased as well as pensions and also benefits. in fact everything needs to go up.....wages, pensions, benefits and tax....hazar hazar long live the amazing people. I feel so humbled to be surrounded by the amazing when all I can do is contribute.
Lol. You're a funny guy :) Keep it up :)
[quote][p][bold]tramp_about_town[/bold] wrote: I think that all councils are amazing and the job they do is fantastic. They serve such deserving people and the public sector workers are also all really amazing. I think we should be looking at paying more tax so that these amazing people can all be recognised for their amazing work they do for all the deserving people that are unable to afford to pay in to the system. Wages need to be increased as well as pensions and also benefits. in fact everything needs to go up.....wages, pensions, benefits and tax....hazar hazar long live the amazing people. I feel so humbled to be surrounded by the amazing when all I can do is contribute.[/p][/quote]Lol. You're a funny guy :) Keep it up :) Hobad1

8:05pm Mon 28 Jan 13

Hobad1 says...

Could they not find a better picture of Elaine Atkinson ? She's like something from a 90's Arnie movie. I'm half expecting her head to fall off.
Could they not find a better picture of Elaine Atkinson ? She's like something from a 90's Arnie movie. I'm half expecting her head to fall off. Hobad1

8:58pm Mon 28 Jan 13

boscombewizard says...

Hmmm democracy Mr Pickles of the Conservative and Unionist Party of Great Britain. Whose party received votes from less than 25% of the electorate at the last election.

25%

Is that democracy?
Hmmm democracy Mr Pickles of the Conservative and Unionist Party of Great Britain. Whose party received votes from less than 25% of the electorate at the last election. 25% Is that democracy? boscombewizard

10:38pm Mon 28 Jan 13

nottingham says...

1.95% raise . Obviously Poole Council does not listen to the electorate. Most voters either face wage freezes, others a 1% freeze and pensioners savings rates at an all time low.

Something has to change its about time Christchurch, Bournemouth , Poole Councils were amalgamated to save back office costs and the savings go back to the Council tax payer i trust individuals to decide how to spend their money.

Councils always complain about so called "savage cuts" and yet can waste our money on surf reefs that do not work, IMAX Millions spent and still empty just to name two recent expensive white elephants .

No wonder there is such little faith in local democracy.
1.95% raise . Obviously Poole Council does not listen to the electorate. Most voters either face wage freezes, others a 1% freeze and pensioners savings rates at an all time low. Something has to change its about time Christchurch, Bournemouth , Poole Councils were amalgamated to save back office costs and the savings go back to the Council tax payer i trust individuals to decide how to spend their money. Councils always complain about so called "savage cuts" and yet can waste our money on surf reefs that do not work, IMAX Millions spent and still empty just to name two recent expensive white elephants . No wonder there is such little faith in local democracy. nottingham

10:56pm Mon 28 Jan 13

s-pb2 says...

tramp_about_town wrote:
I think that all councils are amazing and the job they do is fantastic. They serve such deserving people and the public sector workers are also all really amazing. I think we should be looking at paying more tax so that these amazing people can all be recognised for their amazing work they do for all the deserving people that are unable to afford to pay in to the system. Wages need to be increased as well as pensions and also benefits. in fact everything needs to go up.....wages, pensions, benefits and tax....hazar hazar long live the amazing people. I feel so humbled to be surrounded by the amazing when all I can do is contribute.
Its true there are some amazing dedicated people who work for the council. Those who look after our disabled and those with learning difficulties, others who help those with alzheimers, and those who look after the disabled children of drug addicts, those who bury our loved ones. You make a good point, these peoples efforts make such a difference to peoples lives.
[quote][p][bold]tramp_about_town[/bold] wrote: I think that all councils are amazing and the job they do is fantastic. They serve such deserving people and the public sector workers are also all really amazing. I think we should be looking at paying more tax so that these amazing people can all be recognised for their amazing work they do for all the deserving people that are unable to afford to pay in to the system. Wages need to be increased as well as pensions and also benefits. in fact everything needs to go up.....wages, pensions, benefits and tax....hazar hazar long live the amazing people. I feel so humbled to be surrounded by the amazing when all I can do is contribute.[/p][/quote]Its true there are some amazing dedicated people who work for the council. Those who look after our disabled and those with learning difficulties, others who help those with alzheimers, and those who look after the disabled children of drug addicts, those who bury our loved ones. You make a good point, these peoples efforts make such a difference to peoples lives. s-pb2

11:15pm Mon 28 Jan 13

dorsetred says...

All my live I have heard "they are all the same" that is the excuse for not voting, very valid it is too, but better would be to dis-qualify your ballot paper this has to be recorded and reported, if only the 80% of you nation wide that did not vote at the recent sham of democracy of the police nonsense had done just that all our corrupt politicians (and Wannabees) at every level,would pause for thought.
All my live I have heard "they are all the same" that is the excuse for not voting, very valid it is too, but better would be to dis-qualify your ballot paper this has to be recorded and reported, if only the 80% of you nation wide that did not vote at the recent sham of democracy of the police nonsense had done just that all our corrupt politicians (and Wannabees) at every level,would pause for thought. dorsetred

8:14am Tue 29 Jan 13

The Liberal says...

l'anglais wrote:
Council Tax payers contribute about 20% to the annual budgets of your local councils.

So when you next see your bin being emptied, say a big thank you to those high earners from the Home Counties.

Income Tax and VAT pay for 4/5ths of your local services.
So are you saying that no one in Dorset pays any income tax or VAT (nor any other taxes or duties paid to central government)?
 
With such a low government grant, it's more like Poole residents are subsidising those in other parts of the UK.
[quote][p][bold]l'anglais[/bold] wrote: Council Tax payers contribute about 20% to the annual budgets of your local councils. So when you next see your bin being emptied, say a big thank you to those high earners from the Home Counties. Income Tax and VAT pay for 4/5ths of your local services.[/p][/quote]So are you saying that no one in Dorset pays any income tax or VAT (nor any other taxes or duties paid to central government)?   With such a low government grant, it's more like Poole residents are subsidising those in other parts of the UK. The Liberal

8:15am Tue 29 Jan 13

The Liberal says...

dorsetred wrote:
All my live I have heard "they are all the same" that is the excuse for not voting, very valid it is too, but better would be to dis-qualify your ballot paper this has to be recorded and reported, if only the 80% of you nation wide that did not vote at the recent sham of democracy of the police nonsense had done just that all our corrupt politicians (and Wannabees) at every level,would pause for thought.
No, they'd just claim that those people failed to understand the voting system – as was the case with the PCC elections.
[quote][p][bold]dorsetred[/bold] wrote: All my live I have heard "they are all the same" that is the excuse for not voting, very valid it is too, but better would be to dis-qualify your ballot paper this has to be recorded and reported, if only the 80% of you nation wide that did not vote at the recent sham of democracy of the police nonsense had done just that all our corrupt politicians (and Wannabees) at every level,would pause for thought.[/p][/quote]No, they'd just claim that those people failed to understand the voting system – as was the case with the PCC elections. The Liberal

10:30am Tue 29 Jan 13

phonehome says...

All Poole Council had to do was to introduce 1.95% of efficiency into their budget and we wouldn't have to pay anymore than last year.

If they cannot find such a small saving then they need to make way for someone who can.

Householders have been making these sort of cuts for the last 5 years at least.
All Poole Council had to do was to introduce 1.95% of efficiency into their budget and we wouldn't have to pay anymore than last year. If they cannot find such a small saving then they need to make way for someone who can. Householders have been making these sort of cuts for the last 5 years at least. phonehome

10:41am Tue 29 Jan 13

harrythered says...

Simple question
Why do we need seperate Bournemouth, Poole, Christchurch, East Dorset, New Forest councils as wel as all the local town councils. The admin costs, building costs and duplication of services is absolutely crazy. E Dorset and Christchurch have save £2.5M by amalgamating some services - How much could we save by combining the whole lot?
Simple question Why do we need seperate Bournemouth, Poole, Christchurch, East Dorset, New Forest councils as wel as all the local town councils. The admin costs, building costs and duplication of services is absolutely crazy. E Dorset and Christchurch have save £2.5M by amalgamating some services - How much could we save by combining the whole lot? harrythered

11:47am Tue 29 Jan 13

HRH of Boscombe says...

rayc wrote:
HRH of Boscombe wrote:
rayc wrote:
HRH of Boscombe wrote:
rayc wrote: Don't worry, Councils have always found ways to get that little bit more by using the powers given to them by Central Government. The latest one for London Councils is Litter Fines. http://www.bbc.co.uk /news/uk-england-lon don-21200058
Have you seen the streets of Islington? Fair play to their Council.
Fair enough. The Magistrate's Association believes the situation is dangerous saying ""Private companies don't report to anybody, the public can't question it - there's very limited appeal provisions." Still if you do nothing wrong you'll have nothing to worry about. Just don't drop a pen by accident or let your toddler drop a crisp.
On the same point though private companies have no way to enforce their fines even if they do find someone stupid enough to give them their details. . I would do it just to bait one of them to try. Unfortunately they know that too and will just pick easy targets.
I think you will find that these companies are working on behalf of the Council and the council have the power to put you in front of a Magistrate if you do not pay the Penalty Charge. It is similar to refusing to pay a council issued parking ticket.
Unless they have a police man holding their hand they would be told to jog on quickly before they have a very bad day. Parking fines are easy because you have a number plate.
[quote][p][bold]rayc[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]HRH of Boscombe[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]rayc[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]HRH of Boscombe[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]rayc[/bold] wrote: Don't worry, Councils have always found ways to get that little bit more by using the powers given to them by Central Government. The latest one for London Councils is Litter Fines. http://www.bbc.co.uk /news/uk-england-lon don-21200058[/p][/quote]Have you seen the streets of Islington? Fair play to their Council.[/p][/quote]Fair enough. The Magistrate's Association believes the situation is dangerous saying ""Private companies don't report to anybody, the public can't question it - there's very limited appeal provisions." Still if you do nothing wrong you'll have nothing to worry about. Just don't drop a pen by accident or let your toddler drop a crisp.[/p][/quote]On the same point though private companies have no way to enforce their fines even if they do find someone stupid enough to give them their details. . I would do it just to bait one of them to try. Unfortunately they know that too and will just pick easy targets.[/p][/quote]I think you will find that these companies are working on behalf of the Council and the council have the power to put you in front of a Magistrate if you do not pay the Penalty Charge. It is similar to refusing to pay a council issued parking ticket.[/p][/quote]Unless they have a police man holding their hand they would be told to jog on quickly before they have a very bad day. Parking fines are easy because you have a number plate. HRH of Boscombe

12:22pm Tue 29 Jan 13

aboobica says...

If they did not waste so much money they would not need to raise the price and focus on doing job properly the first time around then they would not have to do it again.
If they did not waste so much money they would not need to raise the price and focus on doing job properly the first time around then they would not have to do it again. aboobica

12:54pm Tue 29 Jan 13

l'anglais says...

The Liberal wrote:
l'anglais wrote:
Council Tax payers contribute about 20% to the annual budgets of your local councils.

So when you next see your bin being emptied, say a big thank you to those high earners from the Home Counties.

Income Tax and VAT pay for 4/5ths of your local services.
So are you saying that no one in Dorset pays any income tax or VAT (nor any other taxes or duties paid to central government)?
 
With such a low government grant, it's more like Poole residents are subsidising those in other parts of the UK.
In that case, when you've pulled out of Europe in a few years time.
Why not pull out of the UK as well.
Dorset Independence Party!
or DIPPY
[quote][p][bold]The Liberal[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]l'anglais[/bold] wrote: Council Tax payers contribute about 20% to the annual budgets of your local councils. So when you next see your bin being emptied, say a big thank you to those high earners from the Home Counties. Income Tax and VAT pay for 4/5ths of your local services.[/p][/quote]So are you saying that no one in Dorset pays any income tax or VAT (nor any other taxes or duties paid to central government)?   With such a low government grant, it's more like Poole residents are subsidising those in other parts of the UK.[/p][/quote]In that case, when you've pulled out of Europe in a few years time. Why not pull out of the UK as well. Dorset Independence Party! or DIPPY l'anglais

4:18pm Tue 29 Jan 13

Martinesque says...

The Renegade Master wrote:
Typical greedy Council, shafting it's residents out of every penny they can, while the fat cat Council hierarchy get rich at our expense. What new money making schemes do the powers that be have in store for us this year? Raise parking charges further? Paint more double yellow lines all over the place and buy a couple more parking cars? Encourage the local constabulary to forget catching criminals and concentrate their efforts on penalising the motorist for profit? Oh whoops, they've already done most of that. Oh well, I'm sure they'll think of something to keep their snouts in the trough.
Get a ticket did you? You should've stayed under your bridge with all the other trolls, the parking car doesn't work underwater.
[quote][p][bold]The Renegade Master[/bold] wrote: Typical greedy Council, shafting it's residents out of every penny they can, while the fat cat Council hierarchy get rich at our expense. What new money making schemes do the powers that be have in store for us this year? Raise parking charges further? Paint more double yellow lines all over the place and buy a couple more parking cars? Encourage the local constabulary to forget catching criminals and concentrate their efforts on penalising the motorist for profit? Oh whoops, they've already done most of that. Oh well, I'm sure they'll think of something to keep their snouts in the trough.[/p][/quote]Get a ticket did you? You should've stayed under your bridge with all the other trolls, the parking car doesn't work underwater. Martinesque

6:26pm Tue 29 Jan 13

s-pb2 says...

phonehome wrote:
All Poole Council had to do was to introduce 1.95% of efficiency into their budget and we wouldn't have to pay anymore than last year.

If they cannot find such a small saving then they need to make way for someone who can.

Householders have been making these sort of cuts for the last 5 years at least.
They have been making cuts to frontline services all the while in order to be within budgets, but this time the costs of such services are far exceeding what Poole can afford. You cant cut it any less because then you start putting peoples lives at risk.
[quote][p][bold]phonehome[/bold] wrote: All Poole Council had to do was to introduce 1.95% of efficiency into their budget and we wouldn't have to pay anymore than last year. If they cannot find such a small saving then they need to make way for someone who can. Householders have been making these sort of cuts for the last 5 years at least.[/p][/quote]They have been making cuts to frontline services all the while in order to be within budgets, but this time the costs of such services are far exceeding what Poole can afford. You cant cut it any less because then you start putting peoples lives at risk. s-pb2

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