LiveThousands of Dorset workers join in public sector strikes

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Summary

  • Teachers, firefighters, council workers and civil servants are among those taking part in today's public sector strike.
  • A number of schools are closed or partially open today across Bournemouth, Poole, Christchurch, East Dorset and Purbeck.
  • Many council services are set to be disrupted by the one-day walkout with trade unionists set to protest outside the Local Government Association conference in Bournemouth.
  • Bournemouth's council leader John Beesley had criticised the strike and said there would have to be more job losses if higher pay was approved nationally.
  • Refuse and recycling collections are suspended in Poole today and residents have been advised not to put their bins out
  • Firefighters are on strike until 7pm tonight

Comments (40)

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9:24am Thu 10 Jul 14

BarrHumbug says...

I think the 8:36am comment above pretty much says it all. I think the Echo need to read it first though before saying the person is supporting the strike?
I think the 8:36am comment above pretty much says it all. I think the Echo need to read it first though before saying the person is supporting the strike? BarrHumbug
  • Score: 1

10:34am Thu 10 Jul 14

Ragwin says...

If the public sector workers can legally strike to not provide their time then I should be able to legally strike to not pay the council tax towards their wages.
If the public sector workers can legally strike to not provide their time then I should be able to legally strike to not pay the council tax towards their wages. Ragwin
  • Score: 9

10:43am Thu 10 Jul 14

uvox44 says...

Strange how when bankers and directors pay is discussed the Govt always says they need to have huge rewards to get the top people ( and if the people that almost bankrupted us by reckless speculating , tacticly condoned by the Govt - Labour and Tory- are the "top" people God help us!),yet the people who do the really necessary and dirty work are told they need to work for a pittance to keep their jobs! And when they are forced to strike the same Govt then calls them irresponsible for affecting the public - so they should work for low wages out of a sense of civic responsibility but the "captains of industry" should be left to risk our money ( bank bail outs remember- come on people it wasn't that long ago!) and need to make huge profits else they'll (supposedly) go abroad ? The Capitalist ideology has it all sewn up! But the real sad trick they play is to turn worker against worker (self-employed against council, private against public ) whilst laughing all the way to the banks!
Strange how when bankers and directors pay is discussed the Govt always says they need to have huge rewards to get the top people ( and if the people that almost bankrupted us by reckless speculating , tacticly condoned by the Govt - Labour and Tory- are the "top" people God help us!),yet the people who do the really necessary and dirty work are told they need to work for a pittance to keep their jobs! And when they are forced to strike the same Govt then calls them irresponsible for affecting the public - so they should work for low wages out of a sense of civic responsibility but the "captains of industry" should be left to risk our money ( bank bail outs remember- come on people it wasn't that long ago!) and need to make huge profits else they'll (supposedly) go abroad ? The Capitalist ideology has it all sewn up! But the real sad trick they play is to turn worker against worker (self-employed against council, private against public ) whilst laughing all the way to the banks! uvox44
  • Score: 18

10:46am Thu 10 Jul 14

Bluestew says...

SOLIDARITY to ALL workers striking today for fairer wages and conditions and rights.

The working population now resigned to low wages, pay cuts and zero-hour contracts where their rights to overtime, sick pay, and job security are being annihilated by government and ideology. Where hikes in VAT , in work benefits and pensions are being attacked , the real wages of workers are being cut.

Shame on Beesley's stance.... but who'd expect the privatised greedy hand of this council to actually support the people... over their own system of asset stripping and pay hikes and bonuses.
SOLIDARITY to ALL workers striking today for fairer wages and conditions and rights. The working population now resigned to low wages, pay cuts and zero-hour contracts where their rights to overtime, sick pay, and job security are being annihilated by government and ideology. Where hikes in VAT , in work benefits and pensions are being attacked , the real wages of workers are being cut. Shame on Beesley's stance.... but who'd expect the privatised greedy hand of this council to actually support the people... over their own system of asset stripping and pay hikes and bonuses. Bluestew
  • Score: 8

10:56am Thu 10 Jul 14

Ziggy starburst says...

Bla bla it's not fair, I don't get a pension. I'm in the real world. I can't afford to heat my home so why should they. I haven't had a holiday for 3 years and I heard that teachers have 40 holidays a year. I haven't got a fire engine, why should they have a fire engine. That's not fair. I'm happy to blindly join in the race to the bottom by relating everything to myself. There IS enough money to go round, it's just that it isn't being shared equally. It's all being passed upward to the rich right under your noses and YOURE supporting THAT instead of teachers, firemen etc. If you can't be bothered to support them (and each other) you deserve your zero hours contracts that you are either on now or will be in a few years time. You've only got yourselves to blame. I support anyone who is giving up a days pay for decent working conditions. It says something of the state of this country that there is a debate on a living wage. There shouldn't even be a debate. People should have enough money live on, especially when they are employed by billion £ tax dodging profit making corporations, who are the ones ripping the country apart. And no, I'm not a public sector striker before the daily mail brigade wade in.
Bla bla it's not fair, I don't get a pension. I'm in the real world. I can't afford to heat my home so why should they. I haven't had a holiday for 3 years and I heard that teachers have 40 holidays a year. I haven't got a fire engine, why should they have a fire engine. That's not fair. I'm happy to blindly join in the race to the bottom by relating everything to myself. There IS enough money to go round, it's just that it isn't being shared equally. It's all being passed upward to the rich right under your noses and YOURE supporting THAT instead of teachers, firemen etc. If you can't be bothered to support them (and each other) you deserve your zero hours contracts that you are either on now or will be in a few years time. You've only got yourselves to blame. I support anyone who is giving up a days pay for decent working conditions. It says something of the state of this country that there is a debate on a living wage. There shouldn't even be a debate. People should have enough money live on, especially when they are employed by billion £ tax dodging profit making corporations, who are the ones ripping the country apart. And no, I'm not a public sector striker before the daily mail brigade wade in. Ziggy starburst
  • Score: 11

10:58am Thu 10 Jul 14

speedy231278 says...

"There is currently around 20 council staff and union officials outside Bournemouth Town Hall."

There ARE currently....

Honestly, did any Echo employees learn English?
"There is currently around 20 council staff and union officials outside Bournemouth Town Hall." There ARE currently.... Honestly, did any Echo employees learn English? speedy231278
  • Score: 11

11:00am Thu 10 Jul 14

speedy231278 says...

It is a shame that more workers weren't on strike. I was woken up at 4.45am today by two road sweepers!
It is a shame that more workers weren't on strike. I was woken up at 4.45am today by two road sweepers! speedy231278
  • Score: 11

11:19am Thu 10 Jul 14

uvox44 says...

totally agree Ziggy, even though i pressed a thumbs down by mistake! doh!
totally agree Ziggy, even though i pressed a thumbs down by mistake! doh! uvox44
  • Score: 1

11:28am Thu 10 Jul 14

boardsandphotos says...

Ziggy starburst wrote:
Bla bla it's not fair, I don't get a pension. I'm in the real world. I can't afford to heat my home so why should they. I haven't had a holiday for 3 years and I heard that teachers have 40 holidays a year. I haven't got a fire engine, why should they have a fire engine. That's not fair. I'm happy to blindly join in the race to the bottom by relating everything to myself. There IS enough money to go round, it's just that it isn't being shared equally. It's all being passed upward to the rich right under your noses and YOURE supporting THAT instead of teachers, firemen etc. If you can't be bothered to support them (and each other) you deserve your zero hours contracts that you are either on now or will be in a few years time. You've only got yourselves to blame. I support anyone who is giving up a days pay for decent working conditions. It says something of the state of this country that there is a debate on a living wage. There shouldn't even be a debate. People should have enough money live on, especially when they are employed by billion £ tax dodging profit making corporations, who are the ones ripping the country apart. And no, I'm not a public sector striker before the daily mail brigade wade in.
Great Comment, well said. Thumbs Up!
[quote][p][bold]Ziggy starburst[/bold] wrote: Bla bla it's not fair, I don't get a pension. I'm in the real world. I can't afford to heat my home so why should they. I haven't had a holiday for 3 years and I heard that teachers have 40 holidays a year. I haven't got a fire engine, why should they have a fire engine. That's not fair. I'm happy to blindly join in the race to the bottom by relating everything to myself. There IS enough money to go round, it's just that it isn't being shared equally. It's all being passed upward to the rich right under your noses and YOURE supporting THAT instead of teachers, firemen etc. If you can't be bothered to support them (and each other) you deserve your zero hours contracts that you are either on now or will be in a few years time. You've only got yourselves to blame. I support anyone who is giving up a days pay for decent working conditions. It says something of the state of this country that there is a debate on a living wage. There shouldn't even be a debate. People should have enough money live on, especially when they are employed by billion £ tax dodging profit making corporations, who are the ones ripping the country apart. And no, I'm not a public sector striker before the daily mail brigade wade in.[/p][/quote]Great Comment, well said. Thumbs Up! boardsandphotos
  • Score: 11

11:49am Thu 10 Jul 14

FreeLoader Culture says...

What a beautiful day for not bothering to turn up for work. Excellent choice of date by the Union Leaders. Would prefer a Friday next time please so I can make a nice long weekend.
What a beautiful day for not bothering to turn up for work. Excellent choice of date by the Union Leaders. Would prefer a Friday next time please so I can make a nice long weekend. FreeLoader Culture
  • Score: -7

11:59am Thu 10 Jul 14

lilac123 says...

As a local self employed Toys & Puzzles shop owner, this year has seen me taking a pay cut. we are all feeling the pinch but striking and causing people to take day off to look after their children, or events organised having to be changed, is wrong. We would all like to live in a world that pay more money for less hours and gives us more when we retire but that is not the case. Surly no pay rise is better than people being laid off work. Those that strike get no support from me.
As a local self employed Toys & Puzzles shop owner, this year has seen me taking a pay cut. we are all feeling the pinch but striking and causing people to take day off to look after their children, or events organised having to be changed, is wrong. We would all like to live in a world that pay more money for less hours and gives us more when we retire but that is not the case. Surly no pay rise is better than people being laid off work. Those that strike get no support from me. lilac123
  • Score: -1

12:06pm Thu 10 Jul 14

bmthlad says...

Did not these workers strike-ing know the pay and conditions when they took the jobs? Get back to work. What are the teachers after, more holidays???
Did not these workers strike-ing know the pay and conditions when they took the jobs? Get back to work. What are the teachers after, more holidays??? bmthlad
  • Score: -3

12:45pm Thu 10 Jul 14

boardsandphotos says...

bmthlad wrote:
Did not these workers strike-ing know the pay and conditions when they took the jobs? Get back to work. What are the teachers after, more holidays???
I think it's you who needs to go back to School, not the Teachers.
[quote][p][bold]bmthlad[/bold] wrote: Did not these workers strike-ing know the pay and conditions when they took the jobs? Get back to work. What are the teachers after, more holidays???[/p][/quote]I think it's you who needs to go back to School, not the Teachers. boardsandphotos
  • Score: -4

12:48pm Thu 10 Jul 14

bmthlad says...

boardsandphotos wrote:
bmthlad wrote:
Did not these workers strike-ing know the pay and conditions when they took the jobs? Get back to work. What are the teachers after, more holidays???
I think it's you who needs to go back to School, not the Teachers.
Really valuable contribution to the discussion. Well done
[quote][p][bold]boardsandphotos[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bmthlad[/bold] wrote: Did not these workers strike-ing know the pay and conditions when they took the jobs? Get back to work. What are the teachers after, more holidays???[/p][/quote]I think it's you who needs to go back to School, not the Teachers.[/p][/quote]Really valuable contribution to the discussion. Well done bmthlad
  • Score: 2

1:52pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Chris60 says...

Ziggy starburst wrote:
Bla bla it's not fair, I don't get a pension. I'm in the real world. I can't afford to heat my home so why should they. I haven't had a holiday for 3 years and I heard that teachers have 40 holidays a year. I haven't got a fire engine, why should they have a fire engine. That's not fair. I'm happy to blindly join in the race to the bottom by relating everything to myself. There IS enough money to go round, it's just that it isn't being shared equally. It's all being passed upward to the rich right under your noses and YOURE supporting THAT instead of teachers, firemen etc. If you can't be bothered to support them (and each other) you deserve your zero hours contracts that you are either on now or will be in a few years time. You've only got yourselves to blame. I support anyone who is giving up a days pay for decent working conditions. It says something of the state of this country that there is a debate on a living wage. There shouldn't even be a debate. People should have enough money live on, especially when they are employed by billion £ tax dodging profit making corporations, who are the ones ripping the country apart. And no, I'm not a public sector striker before the daily mail brigade wade in.
Absolutely spot on, the race to the bottom gathers pace...
[quote][p][bold]Ziggy starburst[/bold] wrote: Bla bla it's not fair, I don't get a pension. I'm in the real world. I can't afford to heat my home so why should they. I haven't had a holiday for 3 years and I heard that teachers have 40 holidays a year. I haven't got a fire engine, why should they have a fire engine. That's not fair. I'm happy to blindly join in the race to the bottom by relating everything to myself. There IS enough money to go round, it's just that it isn't being shared equally. It's all being passed upward to the rich right under your noses and YOURE supporting THAT instead of teachers, firemen etc. If you can't be bothered to support them (and each other) you deserve your zero hours contracts that you are either on now or will be in a few years time. You've only got yourselves to blame. I support anyone who is giving up a days pay for decent working conditions. It says something of the state of this country that there is a debate on a living wage. There shouldn't even be a debate. People should have enough money live on, especially when they are employed by billion £ tax dodging profit making corporations, who are the ones ripping the country apart. And no, I'm not a public sector striker before the daily mail brigade wade in.[/p][/quote]Absolutely spot on, the race to the bottom gathers pace... Chris60
  • Score: 10

1:58pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Chris60 says...

bmthlad wrote:
Did not these workers strike-ing know the pay and conditions when they took the jobs? Get back to work. What are the teachers after, more holidays???
Pay and conditions have changed/are changing (pay by freeze and pensions by reducing benefits). Yes, I know public service pensions are better than the vast majority of private sector ones (I work in the private sector) but that was what they were promised when they took the jobs and in any event, I don't subscribe to "If I can't have it neither should anybody else". I assume from your comment that your employer can do whatever they like with your pay and conditions and you'd smile as you licked their .....
[quote][p][bold]bmthlad[/bold] wrote: Did not these workers strike-ing know the pay and conditions when they took the jobs? Get back to work. What are the teachers after, more holidays???[/p][/quote]Pay and conditions have changed/are changing (pay by freeze and pensions by reducing benefits). Yes, I know public service pensions are better than the vast majority of private sector ones (I work in the private sector) but that was what they were promised when they took the jobs and in any event, I don't subscribe to "If I can't have it neither should anybody else". I assume from your comment that your employer can do whatever they like with your pay and conditions and you'd smile as you licked their ..... Chris60
  • Score: 6

2:13pm Thu 10 Jul 14

dorsetgills says...

Thank you teachers if you want a better pension go find it and pay and from your own wages like me and million others you do get paid £30,000 plus a year £10,000 more than I do and I never strike and moan about conditions blah, blah, blah just do your job
Thank you teachers if you want a better pension go find it and pay and from your own wages like me and million others you do get paid £30,000 plus a year £10,000 more than I do and I never strike and moan about conditions blah, blah, blah just do your job dorsetgills
  • Score: 5

2:24pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Baysider says...

dorsetgills wrote:
Thank you teachers if you want a better pension go find it and pay and from your own wages like me and million others you do get paid £30,000 plus a year £10,000 more than I do and I never strike and moan about conditions blah, blah, blah just do your job
Alternatively if you think it's such a cushy deal, spend several years of your life training to be a teacher and hop on board the gravy train...
[quote][p][bold]dorsetgills[/bold] wrote: Thank you teachers if you want a better pension go find it and pay and from your own wages like me and million others you do get paid £30,000 plus a year £10,000 more than I do and I never strike and moan about conditions blah, blah, blah just do your job[/p][/quote]Alternatively if you think it's such a cushy deal, spend several years of your life training to be a teacher and hop on board the gravy train... Baysider
  • Score: 3

2:31pm Thu 10 Jul 14

wilko2014 says...

Chris60 wrote:
bmthlad wrote:
Did not these workers strike-ing know the pay and conditions when they took the jobs? Get back to work. What are the teachers after, more holidays???
Pay and conditions have changed/are changing (pay by freeze and pensions by reducing benefits). Yes, I know public service pensions are better than the vast majority of private sector ones (I work in the private sector) but that was what they were promised when they took the jobs and in any event, I don't subscribe to "If I can't have it neither should anybody else". I assume from your comment that your employer can do whatever they like with your pay and conditions and you'd smile as you licked their .....
I can understand people protesting to keep their pay and benefits unchanged, particularly when they were better in the past. However, to refuse to acknowledge how our economy and people's life expectancies have changed and that older remuneration packages may not be affordable does nothing to change the finances of the situation.

Public sector pay is still on par with the private sector, if not slightly better, for comparative occupations. As for the benefits, and pensions in particular, there is an astonishing lack of awareness of the total value of those available to the public sector, even after the proposed changes come into effect. Purely as an example, a teacher retiring with, say, 20 years' service and a career average salary of £35,000 would be entitled to an annual pension of just over £12,000. This pension will increase with inflation every year and also be paid to their husband or wife if the pensioner dies first. A seemingly modest amount of income, perhaps, and quite average earnings figures, but this is where the reality check comes in. For a person who has had to save for their pension outside of a public sector scheme, they would need a pension fund in excess of £400,000 to get an equivalent income when they retire and the income won't be guaranteed, but dependent on what rates they can get at the time.
I'm not saying that public sector workers don't deserve good quality pensions as part of their remuneration packages - I don't know them, I don't know what jobs they do or how hard they work. The unions, however, never seem to actually quantify the value of benefits and pensions in particular. If they did, perhaps there would be some recognition that what the unions are calling for is way in excess of anything equivalent in the private sector and only fuels the 'us and them' arguments, but not necessarily in the way they intend.
[quote][p][bold]Chris60[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bmthlad[/bold] wrote: Did not these workers strike-ing know the pay and conditions when they took the jobs? Get back to work. What are the teachers after, more holidays???[/p][/quote]Pay and conditions have changed/are changing (pay by freeze and pensions by reducing benefits). Yes, I know public service pensions are better than the vast majority of private sector ones (I work in the private sector) but that was what they were promised when they took the jobs and in any event, I don't subscribe to "If I can't have it neither should anybody else". I assume from your comment that your employer can do whatever they like with your pay and conditions and you'd smile as you licked their .....[/p][/quote]I can understand people protesting to keep their pay and benefits unchanged, particularly when they were better in the past. However, to refuse to acknowledge how our economy and people's life expectancies have changed and that older remuneration packages may not be affordable does nothing to change the finances of the situation. Public sector pay is still on par with the private sector, if not slightly better, for comparative occupations. As for the benefits, and pensions in particular, there is an astonishing lack of awareness of the total value of those available to the public sector, even after the proposed changes come into effect. Purely as an example, a teacher retiring with, say, 20 years' service and a career average salary of £35,000 would be entitled to an annual pension of just over £12,000. This pension will increase with inflation every year and also be paid to their husband or wife if the pensioner dies first. A seemingly modest amount of income, perhaps, and quite average earnings figures, but this is where the reality check comes in. For a person who has had to save for their pension outside of a public sector scheme, they would need a pension fund in excess of £400,000 to get an equivalent income when they retire and the income won't be guaranteed, but dependent on what rates they can get at the time. I'm not saying that public sector workers don't deserve good quality pensions as part of their remuneration packages - I don't know them, I don't know what jobs they do or how hard they work. The unions, however, never seem to actually quantify the value of benefits and pensions in particular. If they did, perhaps there would be some recognition that what the unions are calling for is way in excess of anything equivalent in the private sector and only fuels the 'us and them' arguments, but not necessarily in the way they intend. wilko2014
  • Score: 8

2:37pm Thu 10 Jul 14

cmitchellmx says...

The government need to listen, they will be voted out at the next election as the decent people who work hard have been the ones most affected, yes we have jobs and we appreciate that, we also want a secure future, pay to able to live & a pension that is worth having, I pay £400 a month into mine and have been paying in for 14 years, they now want to change it and make me work ten more years, and sack me if I fail a medical post 50 years old is that fair?! What is the point to bother saving for retirement when they change the goalposts to bail out the greedy bankers?? Unless real change happens we will be a nation of "Jeremy Kyles" benefit street slackers too lazy to bother doing a days work, Where is the incentive to get off the special brew & fags and get a job? The Labour party need to grow a pair and jump on these issues they might actually be a viable alternative if they did! Protect the key workers, kick the lazy and bone idol and support those who really need it! Rant Over......for now!!
The government need to listen, they will be voted out at the next election as the decent people who work hard have been the ones most affected, yes we have jobs and we appreciate that, we also want a secure future, pay to able to live & a pension that is worth having, I pay £400 a month into mine and have been paying in for 14 years, they now want to change it and make me work ten more years, and sack me if I fail a medical post 50 years old is that fair?! What is the point to bother saving for retirement when they change the goalposts to bail out the greedy bankers?? Unless real change happens we will be a nation of "Jeremy Kyles" benefit street slackers too lazy to bother doing a days work, Where is the incentive to get off the special brew & fags and get a job? The Labour party need to grow a pair and jump on these issues they might actually be a viable alternative if they did! Protect the key workers, kick the lazy and bone idol and support those who really need it! Rant Over......for now!! cmitchellmx
  • Score: 5

3:02pm Thu 10 Jul 14

dorsetgills says...

Baysider wrote:
dorsetgills wrote:
Thank you teachers if you want a better pension go find it and pay and from your own wages like me and million others you do get paid £30,000 plus a year £10,000 more than I do and I never strike and moan about conditions blah, blah, blah just do your job
Alternatively if you think it's such a cushy deal, spend several years of your life training to be a teacher and hop on board the gravy train...
I've got family and friends that are teachers and never hear them moan one bit, only about the strikes.
You can big your part up all you like but the same happens to people in all sorts of jobs. I haven't had a pay rise in 4yrs due to economy but when it does come it will be great yet I'm not complaining about it!
[quote][p][bold]Baysider[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]dorsetgills[/bold] wrote: Thank you teachers if you want a better pension go find it and pay and from your own wages like me and million others you do get paid £30,000 plus a year £10,000 more than I do and I never strike and moan about conditions blah, blah, blah just do your job[/p][/quote]Alternatively if you think it's such a cushy deal, spend several years of your life training to be a teacher and hop on board the gravy train...[/p][/quote]I've got family and friends that are teachers and never hear them moan one bit, only about the strikes. You can big your part up all you like but the same happens to people in all sorts of jobs. I haven't had a pay rise in 4yrs due to economy but when it does come it will be great yet I'm not complaining about it! dorsetgills
  • Score: 6

3:22pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Chris60 says...

wilko2014 wrote:
Chris60 wrote:
bmthlad wrote:
Did not these workers strike-ing know the pay and conditions when they took the jobs? Get back to work. What are the teachers after, more holidays???
Pay and conditions have changed/are changing (pay by freeze and pensions by reducing benefits). Yes, I know public service pensions are better than the vast majority of private sector ones (I work in the private sector) but that was what they were promised when they took the jobs and in any event, I don't subscribe to "If I can't have it neither should anybody else". I assume from your comment that your employer can do whatever they like with your pay and conditions and you'd smile as you licked their .....
I can understand people protesting to keep their pay and benefits unchanged, particularly when they were better in the past. However, to refuse to acknowledge how our economy and people's life expectancies have changed and that older remuneration packages may not be affordable does nothing to change the finances of the situation.

Public sector pay is still on par with the private sector, if not slightly better, for comparative occupations. As for the benefits, and pensions in particular, there is an astonishing lack of awareness of the total value of those available to the public sector, even after the proposed changes come into effect. Purely as an example, a teacher retiring with, say, 20 years' service and a career average salary of £35,000 would be entitled to an annual pension of just over £12,000. This pension will increase with inflation every year and also be paid to their husband or wife if the pensioner dies first. A seemingly modest amount of income, perhaps, and quite average earnings figures, but this is where the reality check comes in. For a person who has had to save for their pension outside of a public sector scheme, they would need a pension fund in excess of £400,000 to get an equivalent income when they retire and the income won't be guaranteed, but dependent on what rates they can get at the time.
I'm not saying that public sector workers don't deserve good quality pensions as part of their remuneration packages - I don't know them, I don't know what jobs they do or how hard they work. The unions, however, never seem to actually quantify the value of benefits and pensions in particular. If they did, perhaps there would be some recognition that what the unions are calling for is way in excess of anything equivalent in the private sector and only fuels the 'us and them' arguments, but not necessarily in the way they intend.
I know the value of a defined benefit pension (I work in the industry and your figure is pretty much spot on for the cost of an inflation proofed pension). However, I don't believe the "cure" for our ills is to reduce everybody's pension (or pay) to the lowest level. Better to try and get everybody a decent pension than reduce the relatively few good ones. That may mean saving more, spending less and/or having less pay in return for a higher pension (which is what the public sector were told was the deal when they took their jobs) To fund public sector pensions it may even mean paying more tax (how unthinkable). Remember everybody who doesn't have a decent pension is potentially going to cost us all more in required support when they are retired. For those complaining public sector pay is so good the answer is simple; get a job there (there will be something that nearly every private sector worker could do in the public sector). Perhaps some would like to try the pay of somebody like my daughter who regularly gets a punch or her hair pulled and has to clean up things most of us would be horrified at and all for £13k a year but does the job because she feels it's worthwhile. Even then, she is lucky because she has a good degree and will not be doing that job for many years. Some people have that sort of job and pay for life. Finally, when moaning about the costs (£400,000?) of a public sector pension and that those losing some of this benefit have the temerity to go on strike, try flipping that around and asking how you'd feel if you were told what you'd get when you started a job and were then told that was going to reduce by up to £400,000.
[quote][p][bold]wilko2014[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Chris60[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bmthlad[/bold] wrote: Did not these workers strike-ing know the pay and conditions when they took the jobs? Get back to work. What are the teachers after, more holidays???[/p][/quote]Pay and conditions have changed/are changing (pay by freeze and pensions by reducing benefits). Yes, I know public service pensions are better than the vast majority of private sector ones (I work in the private sector) but that was what they were promised when they took the jobs and in any event, I don't subscribe to "If I can't have it neither should anybody else". I assume from your comment that your employer can do whatever they like with your pay and conditions and you'd smile as you licked their .....[/p][/quote]I can understand people protesting to keep their pay and benefits unchanged, particularly when they were better in the past. However, to refuse to acknowledge how our economy and people's life expectancies have changed and that older remuneration packages may not be affordable does nothing to change the finances of the situation. Public sector pay is still on par with the private sector, if not slightly better, for comparative occupations. As for the benefits, and pensions in particular, there is an astonishing lack of awareness of the total value of those available to the public sector, even after the proposed changes come into effect. Purely as an example, a teacher retiring with, say, 20 years' service and a career average salary of £35,000 would be entitled to an annual pension of just over £12,000. This pension will increase with inflation every year and also be paid to their husband or wife if the pensioner dies first. A seemingly modest amount of income, perhaps, and quite average earnings figures, but this is where the reality check comes in. For a person who has had to save for their pension outside of a public sector scheme, they would need a pension fund in excess of £400,000 to get an equivalent income when they retire and the income won't be guaranteed, but dependent on what rates they can get at the time. I'm not saying that public sector workers don't deserve good quality pensions as part of their remuneration packages - I don't know them, I don't know what jobs they do or how hard they work. The unions, however, never seem to actually quantify the value of benefits and pensions in particular. If they did, perhaps there would be some recognition that what the unions are calling for is way in excess of anything equivalent in the private sector and only fuels the 'us and them' arguments, but not necessarily in the way they intend.[/p][/quote]I know the value of a defined benefit pension (I work in the industry and your figure is pretty much spot on for the cost of an inflation proofed pension). However, I don't believe the "cure" for our ills is to reduce everybody's pension (or pay) to the lowest level. Better to try and get everybody a decent pension than reduce the relatively few good ones. That may mean saving more, spending less and/or having less pay in return for a higher pension (which is what the public sector were told was the deal when they took their jobs) To fund public sector pensions it may even mean paying more tax (how unthinkable). Remember everybody who doesn't have a decent pension is potentially going to cost us all more in required support when they are retired. For those complaining public sector pay is so good the answer is simple; get a job there (there will be something that nearly every private sector worker could do in the public sector). Perhaps some would like to try the pay of somebody like my daughter who regularly gets a punch or her hair pulled and has to clean up things most of us would be horrified at and all for £13k a year but does the job because she feels it's worthwhile. Even then, she is lucky because she has a good degree and will not be doing that job for many years. Some people have that sort of job and pay for life. Finally, when moaning about the costs (£400,000?) of a public sector pension and that those losing some of this benefit have the temerity to go on strike, try flipping that around and asking how you'd feel if you were told what you'd get when you started a job and were then told that was going to reduce by up to £400,000. Chris60
  • Score: 0

3:40pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Chris60 says...

wilko2014 wrote:
Chris60 wrote:
bmthlad wrote:
Did not these workers strike-ing know the pay and conditions when they took the jobs? Get back to work. What are the teachers after, more holidays???
Pay and conditions have changed/are changing (pay by freeze and pensions by reducing benefits). Yes, I know public service pensions are better than the vast majority of private sector ones (I work in the private sector) but that was what they were promised when they took the jobs and in any event, I don't subscribe to "If I can't have it neither should anybody else". I assume from your comment that your employer can do whatever they like with your pay and conditions and you'd smile as you licked their .....
I can understand people protesting to keep their pay and benefits unchanged, particularly when they were better in the past. However, to refuse to acknowledge how our economy and people's life expectancies have changed and that older remuneration packages may not be affordable does nothing to change the finances of the situation.

Public sector pay is still on par with the private sector, if not slightly better, for comparative occupations. As for the benefits, and pensions in particular, there is an astonishing lack of awareness of the total value of those available to the public sector, even after the proposed changes come into effect. Purely as an example, a teacher retiring with, say, 20 years' service and a career average salary of £35,000 would be entitled to an annual pension of just over £12,000. This pension will increase with inflation every year and also be paid to their husband or wife if the pensioner dies first. A seemingly modest amount of income, perhaps, and quite average earnings figures, but this is where the reality check comes in. For a person who has had to save for their pension outside of a public sector scheme, they would need a pension fund in excess of £400,000 to get an equivalent income when they retire and the income won't be guaranteed, but dependent on what rates they can get at the time.
I'm not saying that public sector workers don't deserve good quality pensions as part of their remuneration packages - I don't know them, I don't know what jobs they do or how hard they work. The unions, however, never seem to actually quantify the value of benefits and pensions in particular. If they did, perhaps there would be some recognition that what the unions are calling for is way in excess of anything equivalent in the private sector and only fuels the 'us and them' arguments, but not necessarily in the way they intend.
I know the value of a defined benefit pension (I work in the industry and your figure is pretty much spot on for the cost of an inflation proofed pension). However, I don't believe the "cure" for our ills is to reduce everybody's pension (or pay) to the lowest level. Better to try and get everybody a decent pension than reduce the relatively few good ones. That may mean saving more, spending less and/or having less pay in return for a higher pension (which is what the public sector were told was the deal when they took their jobs) To fund public sector pensions it may even mean paying more tax (how unthinkable). Remember everybody who doesn't have a decent pension is potentially going to cost us all more in required support when they are retired. For those complaining public sector pay is so good the answer is simple; get a job there (there will be something that nearly every private sector worker could do in the public sector). Perhaps some would like to try the pay of somebody like my daughter who regularly gets a punch or her hair pulled and has to clean up things most of us would be horrified at and all for £13k a year but does the job because she feels it's worthwhile. Even then, she is lucky because she has a good degree and will not be doing that job for many years. Some people have that sort of job and pay for life. Finally, when moaning about the costs (£400,000?) of a public sector pension and that those losing some of this benefit have the temerity to go on strike, try flipping that around and asking how you'd feel if you were told what you'd get when you started a job and were then told that was going to reduce by up to £400,000.
[quote][p][bold]wilko2014[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Chris60[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bmthlad[/bold] wrote: Did not these workers strike-ing know the pay and conditions when they took the jobs? Get back to work. What are the teachers after, more holidays???[/p][/quote]Pay and conditions have changed/are changing (pay by freeze and pensions by reducing benefits). Yes, I know public service pensions are better than the vast majority of private sector ones (I work in the private sector) but that was what they were promised when they took the jobs and in any event, I don't subscribe to "If I can't have it neither should anybody else". I assume from your comment that your employer can do whatever they like with your pay and conditions and you'd smile as you licked their .....[/p][/quote]I can understand people protesting to keep their pay and benefits unchanged, particularly when they were better in the past. However, to refuse to acknowledge how our economy and people's life expectancies have changed and that older remuneration packages may not be affordable does nothing to change the finances of the situation. Public sector pay is still on par with the private sector, if not slightly better, for comparative occupations. As for the benefits, and pensions in particular, there is an astonishing lack of awareness of the total value of those available to the public sector, even after the proposed changes come into effect. Purely as an example, a teacher retiring with, say, 20 years' service and a career average salary of £35,000 would be entitled to an annual pension of just over £12,000. This pension will increase with inflation every year and also be paid to their husband or wife if the pensioner dies first. A seemingly modest amount of income, perhaps, and quite average earnings figures, but this is where the reality check comes in. For a person who has had to save for their pension outside of a public sector scheme, they would need a pension fund in excess of £400,000 to get an equivalent income when they retire and the income won't be guaranteed, but dependent on what rates they can get at the time. I'm not saying that public sector workers don't deserve good quality pensions as part of their remuneration packages - I don't know them, I don't know what jobs they do or how hard they work. The unions, however, never seem to actually quantify the value of benefits and pensions in particular. If they did, perhaps there would be some recognition that what the unions are calling for is way in excess of anything equivalent in the private sector and only fuels the 'us and them' arguments, but not necessarily in the way they intend.[/p][/quote]I know the value of a defined benefit pension (I work in the industry and your figure is pretty much spot on for the cost of an inflation proofed pension). However, I don't believe the "cure" for our ills is to reduce everybody's pension (or pay) to the lowest level. Better to try and get everybody a decent pension than reduce the relatively few good ones. That may mean saving more, spending less and/or having less pay in return for a higher pension (which is what the public sector were told was the deal when they took their jobs) To fund public sector pensions it may even mean paying more tax (how unthinkable). Remember everybody who doesn't have a decent pension is potentially going to cost us all more in required support when they are retired. For those complaining public sector pay is so good the answer is simple; get a job there (there will be something that nearly every private sector worker could do in the public sector). Perhaps some would like to try the pay of somebody like my daughter who regularly gets a punch or her hair pulled and has to clean up things most of us would be horrified at and all for £13k a year but does the job because she feels it's worthwhile. Even then, she is lucky because she has a good degree and will not be doing that job for many years. Some people have that sort of job and pay for life. Finally, when moaning about the costs (£400,000?) of a public sector pension and that those losing some of this benefit have the temerity to go on strike, try flipping that around and asking how you'd feel if you were told what you'd get when you started a job and were then told that was going to reduce by up to £400,000. Chris60
  • Score: -7

3:42pm Thu 10 Jul 14

MikeGB says...

I do understand why some public sector workers are angry and I do support that in some circumstances they should be allowed to withdraw their labour to make a stand. However all the rhetoric about solidarity seems futile if the figures given by Bournemouth and Poole are correct between 5 and 7 % out on strike when arguably the action was voted for by a minority of Union members (with many others not in a union employed by the two councils) is simply showing what a waste of time this has been.
I do understand why some public sector workers are angry and I do support that in some circumstances they should be allowed to withdraw their labour to make a stand. However all the rhetoric about solidarity seems futile if the figures given by Bournemouth and Poole are correct between 5 and 7 % out on strike when arguably the action was voted for by a minority of Union members (with many others not in a union employed by the two councils) is simply showing what a waste of time this has been. MikeGB
  • Score: 7

3:43pm Thu 10 Jul 14

wilko2014 says...

I didn't complain about the cost public sector pensions at all, only about the seeming lack of awareness about how much these things cost, whether that be through a final salary scheme or a private pension, and an apparent avoidance by unions to declare the value of the total benefits package. Is it not true that people in the private sector who have diligently saved into their pensions over a working lifetime have also had the goalposts moved? I'm pretty certain that what they were told to expect 10 years ago and what they can expect now are radically different figures, even though they may have been saving exactly the same amount. The two situations don't seem so far apart then.
As it happens, I have fairly strong opinions that as a country as a whole we do not save enough towards our retirement, whether we are compelled to or make our own arrangements and one of the biggest reasons for this is a general lack of understanding of how much it costs to retire. This is a much longer discussion than the point I was trying to make, however, which is the lack of concise and accurate information that is put into the public area when strikes happen.
I didn't complain about the cost public sector pensions at all, only about the seeming lack of awareness about how much these things cost, whether that be through a final salary scheme or a private pension, and an apparent avoidance by unions to declare the value of the total benefits package. Is it not true that people in the private sector who have diligently saved into their pensions over a working lifetime have also had the goalposts moved? I'm pretty certain that what they were told to expect 10 years ago and what they can expect now are radically different figures, even though they may have been saving exactly the same amount. The two situations don't seem so far apart then. As it happens, I have fairly strong opinions that as a country as a whole we do not save enough towards our retirement, whether we are compelled to or make our own arrangements and one of the biggest reasons for this is a general lack of understanding of how much it costs to retire. This is a much longer discussion than the point I was trying to make, however, which is the lack of concise and accurate information that is put into the public area when strikes happen. wilko2014
  • Score: 0

4:14pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Chriswood says...

bmthlad wrote:
Did not these workers strike-ing know the pay and conditions when they took the jobs? Get back to work. What are the teachers after, more holidays???
I agree. And what about those firefighters whining about having to work until they're 60. They're in a cushy number and often have second jobs. They should lay off the chips and get fit.
[quote][p][bold]bmthlad[/bold] wrote: Did not these workers strike-ing know the pay and conditions when they took the jobs? Get back to work. What are the teachers after, more holidays???[/p][/quote]I agree. And what about those firefighters whining about having to work until they're 60. They're in a cushy number and often have second jobs. They should lay off the chips and get fit. Chriswood
  • Score: 0

4:29pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Baysider says...

dorsetgills wrote:
Baysider wrote:
dorsetgills wrote:
Thank you teachers if you want a better pension go find it and pay and from your own wages like me and million others you do get paid £30,000 plus a year £10,000 more than I do and I never strike and moan about conditions blah, blah, blah just do your job
Alternatively if you think it's such a cushy deal, spend several years of your life training to be a teacher and hop on board the gravy train...
I've got family and friends that are teachers and never hear them moan one bit, only about the strikes.
You can big your part up all you like but the same happens to people in all sorts of jobs. I haven't had a pay rise in 4yrs due to economy but when it does come it will be great yet I'm not complaining about it!
...you say...moaning about about the very same thing. I repeat then if it's such a great job why don't you do it?
[quote][p][bold]dorsetgills[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Baysider[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]dorsetgills[/bold] wrote: Thank you teachers if you want a better pension go find it and pay and from your own wages like me and million others you do get paid £30,000 plus a year £10,000 more than I do and I never strike and moan about conditions blah, blah, blah just do your job[/p][/quote]Alternatively if you think it's such a cushy deal, spend several years of your life training to be a teacher and hop on board the gravy train...[/p][/quote]I've got family and friends that are teachers and never hear them moan one bit, only about the strikes. You can big your part up all you like but the same happens to people in all sorts of jobs. I haven't had a pay rise in 4yrs due to economy but when it does come it will be great yet I'm not complaining about it![/p][/quote]...you say...moaning about about the very same thing. I repeat then if it's such a great job why don't you do it? Baysider
  • Score: 3

4:39pm Thu 10 Jul 14

rubberbandman5 says...

So we have an opinion poll that shows overwhelming support for strike action. The only problem is that most of us were not at home and able to take part in the poll. Lets have one now-say 6pm and see the smile slip from the faces of those who took part with unfair terms and conditions that favoured the trade union layabouts sitting at home greedily rubbing their grasping little hands together.
So we have an opinion poll that shows overwhelming support for strike action. The only problem is that most of us were not at home and able to take part in the poll. Lets have one now-say 6pm and see the smile slip from the faces of those who took part with unfair terms and conditions that favoured the trade union layabouts sitting at home greedily rubbing their grasping little hands together. rubberbandman5
  • Score: 4

4:52pm Thu 10 Jul 14

purpleflower57 says...

What about NHS staff? The vast majority of them didn't even get a 1% pay increase this year, the government denied them a pay increase. Imagine the uproar if NHS staff decided to strike
What about NHS staff? The vast majority of them didn't even get a 1% pay increase this year, the government denied them a pay increase. Imagine the uproar if NHS staff decided to strike purpleflower57
  • Score: 8

5:38pm Thu 10 Jul 14

cromwell9 says...

boardsandphotos wrote:
Ziggy starburst wrote:
Bla bla it's not fair, I don't get a pension. I'm in the real world. I can't afford to heat my home so why should they. I haven't had a holiday for 3 years and I heard that teachers have 40 holidays a year. I haven't got a fire engine, why should they have a fire engine. That's not fair. I'm happy to blindly join in the race to the bottom by relating everything to myself. There IS enough money to go round, it's just that it isn't being shared equally. It's all being passed upward to the rich right under your noses and YOURE supporting THAT instead of teachers, firemen etc. If you can't be bothered to support them (and each other) you deserve your zero hours contracts that you are either on now or will be in a few years time. You've only got yourselves to blame. I support anyone who is giving up a days pay for decent working conditions. It says something of the state of this country that there is a debate on a living wage. There shouldn't even be a debate. People should have enough money live on, especially when they are employed by billion £ tax dodging profit making corporations, who are the ones ripping the country apart. And no, I'm not a public sector striker before the daily mail brigade wade in.
Great Comment, well said. Thumbs Up!
You strike in the Private Secter mate,You will be shown the door.
Next day a Pole will take your job .and be happy to take less wages.
Thats what you get for Voting Lib Dem /Labour.The EU.
Unless you are a public secter worker.
Above average salery +
A fantastic sick pay scheme ,and a Pention that we in the private secter can only dream of,..
Having said that,.I have great respect for the emergency services,. The Firebrigade have a just cause for protest,.I cant see a 60 yr old man having the fitness etc to do the job.
Care workers also need a big increase in their salery.They do a fantastic job,
The rest of them have a good salary etc .So get back to work.
I know all you public secter workers vote Lib Dem /Labour.because you think they have your interests at heart,
Well think on this .Those two partys want to stay in the EU,.
That means YOUR JOB will be at great risk ,for any EU worker to apply and take.Think About it ,before you put your X next May.
[quote][p][bold]boardsandphotos[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ziggy starburst[/bold] wrote: Bla bla it's not fair, I don't get a pension. I'm in the real world. I can't afford to heat my home so why should they. I haven't had a holiday for 3 years and I heard that teachers have 40 holidays a year. I haven't got a fire engine, why should they have a fire engine. That's not fair. I'm happy to blindly join in the race to the bottom by relating everything to myself. There IS enough money to go round, it's just that it isn't being shared equally. It's all being passed upward to the rich right under your noses and YOURE supporting THAT instead of teachers, firemen etc. If you can't be bothered to support them (and each other) you deserve your zero hours contracts that you are either on now or will be in a few years time. You've only got yourselves to blame. I support anyone who is giving up a days pay for decent working conditions. It says something of the state of this country that there is a debate on a living wage. There shouldn't even be a debate. People should have enough money live on, especially when they are employed by billion £ tax dodging profit making corporations, who are the ones ripping the country apart. And no, I'm not a public sector striker before the daily mail brigade wade in.[/p][/quote]Great Comment, well said. Thumbs Up![/p][/quote]You strike in the Private Secter mate,You will be shown the door. Next day a Pole will take your job .and be happy to take less wages. Thats what you get for Voting Lib Dem /Labour.The EU. Unless you are a public secter worker. Above average salery + A fantastic sick pay scheme ,and a Pention that we in the private secter can only dream of,.. Having said that,.I have great respect for the emergency services,. The Firebrigade have a just cause for protest,.I cant see a 60 yr old man having the fitness etc to do the job. Care workers also need a big increase in their salery.They do a fantastic job, The rest of them have a good salary etc .So get back to work. I know all you public secter workers vote Lib Dem /Labour.because you think they have your interests at heart, Well think on this .Those two partys want to stay in the EU,. That means YOUR JOB will be at great risk ,for any EU worker to apply and take.Think About it ,before you put your X next May. cromwell9
  • Score: 4

5:44pm Thu 10 Jul 14

cromwell9 says...

Chris60 wrote:
bmthlad wrote:
Did not these workers strike-ing know the pay and conditions when they took the jobs? Get back to work. What are the teachers after, more holidays???
Pay and conditions have changed/are changing (pay by freeze and pensions by reducing benefits). Yes, I know public service pensions are better than the vast majority of private sector ones (I work in the private sector) but that was what they were promised when they took the jobs and in any event, I don't subscribe to "If I can't have it neither should anybody else". I assume from your comment that your employer can do whatever they like with your pay and conditions and you'd smile as you licked their .....
The problem is mate .The PRIVATE secter is paying for your gold plated pention .
For every £ 1 you put in .You take £4 out,
We have a gun to our heads.25% of all councli tax goes to your pention pot .
So shut up and be gratefull.before you loose it.
[quote][p][bold]Chris60[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bmthlad[/bold] wrote: Did not these workers strike-ing know the pay and conditions when they took the jobs? Get back to work. What are the teachers after, more holidays???[/p][/quote]Pay and conditions have changed/are changing (pay by freeze and pensions by reducing benefits). Yes, I know public service pensions are better than the vast majority of private sector ones (I work in the private sector) but that was what they were promised when they took the jobs and in any event, I don't subscribe to "If I can't have it neither should anybody else". I assume from your comment that your employer can do whatever they like with your pay and conditions and you'd smile as you licked their .....[/p][/quote]The problem is mate .The PRIVATE secter is paying for your gold plated pention . For every £ 1 you put in .You take £4 out, We have a gun to our heads.25% of all councli tax goes to your pention pot . So shut up and be gratefull.before you loose it. cromwell9
  • Score: 0

5:48pm Thu 10 Jul 14

cromwell9 says...

Chris60 wrote:
wilko2014 wrote:
Chris60 wrote:
bmthlad wrote:
Did not these workers strike-ing know the pay and conditions when they took the jobs? Get back to work. What are the teachers after, more holidays???
Pay and conditions have changed/are changing (pay by freeze and pensions by reducing benefits). Yes, I know public service pensions are better than the vast majority of private sector ones (I work in the private sector) but that was what they were promised when they took the jobs and in any event, I don't subscribe to "If I can't have it neither should anybody else". I assume from your comment that your employer can do whatever they like with your pay and conditions and you'd smile as you licked their .....
I can understand people protesting to keep their pay and benefits unchanged, particularly when they were better in the past. However, to refuse to acknowledge how our economy and people's life expectancies have changed and that older remuneration packages may not be affordable does nothing to change the finances of the situation.

Public sector pay is still on par with the private sector, if not slightly better, for comparative occupations. As for the benefits, and pensions in particular, there is an astonishing lack of awareness of the total value of those available to the public sector, even after the proposed changes come into effect. Purely as an example, a teacher retiring with, say, 20 years' service and a career average salary of £35,000 would be entitled to an annual pension of just over £12,000. This pension will increase with inflation every year and also be paid to their husband or wife if the pensioner dies first. A seemingly modest amount of income, perhaps, and quite average earnings figures, but this is where the reality check comes in. For a person who has had to save for their pension outside of a public sector scheme, they would need a pension fund in excess of £400,000 to get an equivalent income when they retire and the income won't be guaranteed, but dependent on what rates they can get at the time.
I'm not saying that public sector workers don't deserve good quality pensions as part of their remuneration packages - I don't know them, I don't know what jobs they do or how hard they work. The unions, however, never seem to actually quantify the value of benefits and pensions in particular. If they did, perhaps there would be some recognition that what the unions are calling for is way in excess of anything equivalent in the private sector and only fuels the 'us and them' arguments, but not necessarily in the way they intend.
I know the value of a defined benefit pension (I work in the industry and your figure is pretty much spot on for the cost of an inflation proofed pension). However, I don't believe the "cure" for our ills is to reduce everybody's pension (or pay) to the lowest level. Better to try and get everybody a decent pension than reduce the relatively few good ones. That may mean saving more, spending less and/or having less pay in return for a higher pension (which is what the public sector were told was the deal when they took their jobs) To fund public sector pensions it may even mean paying more tax (how unthinkable). Remember everybody who doesn't have a decent pension is potentially going to cost us all more in required support when they are retired. For those complaining public sector pay is so good the answer is simple; get a job there (there will be something that nearly every private sector worker could do in the public sector). Perhaps some would like to try the pay of somebody like my daughter who regularly gets a punch or her hair pulled and has to clean up things most of us would be horrified at and all for £13k a year but does the job because she feels it's worthwhile. Even then, she is lucky because she has a good degree and will not be doing that job for many years. Some people have that sort of job and pay for life. Finally, when moaning about the costs (£400,000?) of a public sector pension and that those losing some of this benefit have the temerity to go on strike, try flipping that around and asking how you'd feel if you were told what you'd get when you started a job and were then told that was going to reduce by up to £400,000.
I am crying my eyes out .
[quote][p][bold]Chris60[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]wilko2014[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Chris60[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bmthlad[/bold] wrote: Did not these workers strike-ing know the pay and conditions when they took the jobs? Get back to work. What are the teachers after, more holidays???[/p][/quote]Pay and conditions have changed/are changing (pay by freeze and pensions by reducing benefits). Yes, I know public service pensions are better than the vast majority of private sector ones (I work in the private sector) but that was what they were promised when they took the jobs and in any event, I don't subscribe to "If I can't have it neither should anybody else". I assume from your comment that your employer can do whatever they like with your pay and conditions and you'd smile as you licked their .....[/p][/quote]I can understand people protesting to keep their pay and benefits unchanged, particularly when they were better in the past. However, to refuse to acknowledge how our economy and people's life expectancies have changed and that older remuneration packages may not be affordable does nothing to change the finances of the situation. Public sector pay is still on par with the private sector, if not slightly better, for comparative occupations. As for the benefits, and pensions in particular, there is an astonishing lack of awareness of the total value of those available to the public sector, even after the proposed changes come into effect. Purely as an example, a teacher retiring with, say, 20 years' service and a career average salary of £35,000 would be entitled to an annual pension of just over £12,000. This pension will increase with inflation every year and also be paid to their husband or wife if the pensioner dies first. A seemingly modest amount of income, perhaps, and quite average earnings figures, but this is where the reality check comes in. For a person who has had to save for their pension outside of a public sector scheme, they would need a pension fund in excess of £400,000 to get an equivalent income when they retire and the income won't be guaranteed, but dependent on what rates they can get at the time. I'm not saying that public sector workers don't deserve good quality pensions as part of their remuneration packages - I don't know them, I don't know what jobs they do or how hard they work. The unions, however, never seem to actually quantify the value of benefits and pensions in particular. If they did, perhaps there would be some recognition that what the unions are calling for is way in excess of anything equivalent in the private sector and only fuels the 'us and them' arguments, but not necessarily in the way they intend.[/p][/quote]I know the value of a defined benefit pension (I work in the industry and your figure is pretty much spot on for the cost of an inflation proofed pension). However, I don't believe the "cure" for our ills is to reduce everybody's pension (or pay) to the lowest level. Better to try and get everybody a decent pension than reduce the relatively few good ones. That may mean saving more, spending less and/or having less pay in return for a higher pension (which is what the public sector were told was the deal when they took their jobs) To fund public sector pensions it may even mean paying more tax (how unthinkable). Remember everybody who doesn't have a decent pension is potentially going to cost us all more in required support when they are retired. For those complaining public sector pay is so good the answer is simple; get a job there (there will be something that nearly every private sector worker could do in the public sector). Perhaps some would like to try the pay of somebody like my daughter who regularly gets a punch or her hair pulled and has to clean up things most of us would be horrified at and all for £13k a year but does the job because she feels it's worthwhile. Even then, she is lucky because she has a good degree and will not be doing that job for many years. Some people have that sort of job and pay for life. Finally, when moaning about the costs (£400,000?) of a public sector pension and that those losing some of this benefit have the temerity to go on strike, try flipping that around and asking how you'd feel if you were told what you'd get when you started a job and were then told that was going to reduce by up to £400,000.[/p][/quote]I am crying my eyes out . cromwell9
  • Score: -2

5:51pm Thu 10 Jul 14

cromwell9 says...

uvox44 wrote:
Strange how when bankers and directors pay is discussed the Govt always says they need to have huge rewards to get the top people ( and if the people that almost bankrupted us by reckless speculating , tacticly condoned by the Govt - Labour and Tory- are the "top" people God help us!),yet the people who do the really necessary and dirty work are told they need to work for a pittance to keep their jobs! And when they are forced to strike the same Govt then calls them irresponsible for affecting the public - so they should work for low wages out of a sense of civic responsibility but the "captains of industry" should be left to risk our money ( bank bail outs remember- come on people it wasn't that long ago!) and need to make huge profits else they'll (supposedly) go abroad ? The Capitalist ideology has it all sewn up! But the real sad trick they play is to turn worker against worker (self-employed against council, private against public ) whilst laughing all the way to the banks!
You Vote LIB DEM /LAbour Back in .You will be stuck in the EU ,with open door immigration.
That will mean in less than 25yrs .YOU will have to where a Hishap,or a Burker.
[quote][p][bold]uvox44[/bold] wrote: Strange how when bankers and directors pay is discussed the Govt always says they need to have huge rewards to get the top people ( and if the people that almost bankrupted us by reckless speculating , tacticly condoned by the Govt - Labour and Tory- are the "top" people God help us!),yet the people who do the really necessary and dirty work are told they need to work for a pittance to keep their jobs! And when they are forced to strike the same Govt then calls them irresponsible for affecting the public - so they should work for low wages out of a sense of civic responsibility but the "captains of industry" should be left to risk our money ( bank bail outs remember- come on people it wasn't that long ago!) and need to make huge profits else they'll (supposedly) go abroad ? The Capitalist ideology has it all sewn up! But the real sad trick they play is to turn worker against worker (self-employed against council, private against public ) whilst laughing all the way to the banks![/p][/quote]You Vote LIB DEM /LAbour Back in .You will be stuck in the EU ,with open door immigration. That will mean in less than 25yrs .YOU will have to where a Hishap,or a Burker. cromwell9
  • Score: 5

6:37pm Thu 10 Jul 14

dorsetgills says...

Baysider wrote:
dorsetgills wrote:
Baysider wrote:
dorsetgills wrote:
Thank you teachers if you want a better pension go find it and pay and from your own wages like me and million others you do get paid £30,000 plus a year £10,000 more than I do and I never strike and moan about conditions blah, blah, blah just do your job
Alternatively if you think it's such a cushy deal, spend several years of your life training to be a teacher and hop on board the gravy train...
I've got family and friends that are teachers and never hear them moan one bit, only about the strikes.
You can big your part up all you like but the same happens to people in all sorts of jobs. I haven't had a pay rise in 4yrs due to economy but when it does come it will be great yet I'm not complaining about it!
...you say...moaning about about the very same thing. I repeat then if it's such a great job why don't you do it?
Seeing as I already teach youngsters to play football several days a week plus giving up my Sunday for there matches !ALL FOR FREE!
Maybe I should rob the system then hold them to ransom
[quote][p][bold]Baysider[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]dorsetgills[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Baysider[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]dorsetgills[/bold] wrote: Thank you teachers if you want a better pension go find it and pay and from your own wages like me and million others you do get paid £30,000 plus a year £10,000 more than I do and I never strike and moan about conditions blah, blah, blah just do your job[/p][/quote]Alternatively if you think it's such a cushy deal, spend several years of your life training to be a teacher and hop on board the gravy train...[/p][/quote]I've got family and friends that are teachers and never hear them moan one bit, only about the strikes. You can big your part up all you like but the same happens to people in all sorts of jobs. I haven't had a pay rise in 4yrs due to economy but when it does come it will be great yet I'm not complaining about it![/p][/quote]...you say...moaning about about the very same thing. I repeat then if it's such a great job why don't you do it?[/p][/quote]Seeing as I already teach youngsters to play football several days a week plus giving up my Sunday for there matches !ALL FOR FREE! Maybe I should rob the system then hold them to ransom dorsetgills
  • Score: -5

6:55pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Turtlebay says...

They have jobs and aren't happy.

Here's an idea. If you don't like what is on offer, leave!
They have jobs and aren't happy. Here's an idea. If you don't like what is on offer, leave! Turtlebay
  • Score: -1

9:06pm Thu 10 Jul 14

scrumpyjack says...

BarrHumbug wrote:
I think the 8:36am comment above pretty much says it all. I think the Echo need to read it first though before saying the person is supporting the strike?
Spot on.
[quote][p][bold]BarrHumbug[/bold] wrote: I think the 8:36am comment above pretty much says it all. I think the Echo need to read it first though before saying the person is supporting the strike?[/p][/quote]Spot on. scrumpyjack
  • Score: -1

9:23pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Baysider says...

cromwell9 wrote:
uvox44 wrote:
Strange how when bankers and directors pay is discussed the Govt always says they need to have huge rewards to get the top people ( and if the people that almost bankrupted us by reckless speculating , tacticly condoned by the Govt - Labour and Tory- are the "top" people God help us!),yet the people who do the really necessary and dirty work are told they need to work for a pittance to keep their jobs! And when they are forced to strike the same Govt then calls them irresponsible for affecting the public - so they should work for low wages out of a sense of civic responsibility but the "captains of industry" should be left to risk our money ( bank bail outs remember- come on people it wasn't that long ago!) and need to make huge profits else they'll (supposedly) go abroad ? The Capitalist ideology has it all sewn up! But the real sad trick they play is to turn worker against worker (self-employed against council, private against public ) whilst laughing all the way to the banks!
You Vote LIB DEM /LAbour Back in .You will be stuck in the EU ,with open door immigration.
That will mean in less than 25yrs .YOU will have to where a Hishap,or a Burker.
Keep it up cromwell you are a fantastic advert for UKIP.
[quote][p][bold]cromwell9[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]uvox44[/bold] wrote: Strange how when bankers and directors pay is discussed the Govt always says they need to have huge rewards to get the top people ( and if the people that almost bankrupted us by reckless speculating , tacticly condoned by the Govt - Labour and Tory- are the "top" people God help us!),yet the people who do the really necessary and dirty work are told they need to work for a pittance to keep their jobs! And when they are forced to strike the same Govt then calls them irresponsible for affecting the public - so they should work for low wages out of a sense of civic responsibility but the "captains of industry" should be left to risk our money ( bank bail outs remember- come on people it wasn't that long ago!) and need to make huge profits else they'll (supposedly) go abroad ? The Capitalist ideology has it all sewn up! But the real sad trick they play is to turn worker against worker (self-employed against council, private against public ) whilst laughing all the way to the banks![/p][/quote]You Vote LIB DEM /LAbour Back in .You will be stuck in the EU ,with open door immigration. That will mean in less than 25yrs .YOU will have to where a Hishap,or a Burker.[/p][/quote]Keep it up cromwell you are a fantastic advert for UKIP. Baysider
  • Score: 7

10:03pm Thu 10 Jul 14

boardsandphotos says...

cromwell9 wrote:
boardsandphotos wrote:
Ziggy starburst wrote:
Bla bla it's not fair, I don't get a pension. I'm in the real world. I can't afford to heat my home so why should they. I haven't had a holiday for 3 years and I heard that teachers have 40 holidays a year. I haven't got a fire engine, why should they have a fire engine. That's not fair. I'm happy to blindly join in the race to the bottom by relating everything to myself. There IS enough money to go round, it's just that it isn't being shared equally. It's all being passed upward to the rich right under your noses and YOURE supporting THAT instead of teachers, firemen etc. If you can't be bothered to support them (and each other) you deserve your zero hours contracts that you are either on now or will be in a few years time. You've only got yourselves to blame. I support anyone who is giving up a days pay for decent working conditions. It says something of the state of this country that there is a debate on a living wage. There shouldn't even be a debate. People should have enough money live on, especially when they are employed by billion £ tax dodging profit making corporations, who are the ones ripping the country apart. And no, I'm not a public sector striker before the daily mail brigade wade in.
Great Comment, well said. Thumbs Up!
You strike in the Private Secter mate,You will be shown the door.
Next day a Pole will take your job .and be happy to take less wages.
Thats what you get for Voting Lib Dem /Labour.The EU.
Unless you are a public secter worker.
Above average salery +
A fantastic sick pay scheme ,and a Pention that we in the private secter can only dream of,..
Having said that,.I have great respect for the emergency services,. The Firebrigade have a just cause for protest,.I cant see a 60 yr old man having the fitness etc to do the job.
Care workers also need a big increase in their salery.They do a fantastic job,
The rest of them have a good salary etc .So get back to work.
I know all you public secter workers vote Lib Dem /Labour.because you think they have your interests at heart,
Well think on this .Those two partys want to stay in the EU,.
That means YOUR JOB will be at great risk ,for any EU worker to apply and take.Think About it ,before you put your X next May.
Well both Ziggy & I work in the Private Sector so I'm not sure who your comment is aimed at but it seems to me that too many people in the Private Sector would rather be the lowest common denominator and instead of doing something about their own conditions just choose to bash the public sector.

My job is not going to be given to a pole, or any of the other 30 or so nationalities I work with, even if I did decide to exercise my democratic right to strike. Additionally voting Labour or LibDem would probably make the recruitment aspects of my job rather difficult so that won't be happening either.
[quote][p][bold]cromwell9[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]boardsandphotos[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ziggy starburst[/bold] wrote: Bla bla it's not fair, I don't get a pension. I'm in the real world. I can't afford to heat my home so why should they. I haven't had a holiday for 3 years and I heard that teachers have 40 holidays a year. I haven't got a fire engine, why should they have a fire engine. That's not fair. I'm happy to blindly join in the race to the bottom by relating everything to myself. There IS enough money to go round, it's just that it isn't being shared equally. It's all being passed upward to the rich right under your noses and YOURE supporting THAT instead of teachers, firemen etc. If you can't be bothered to support them (and each other) you deserve your zero hours contracts that you are either on now or will be in a few years time. You've only got yourselves to blame. I support anyone who is giving up a days pay for decent working conditions. It says something of the state of this country that there is a debate on a living wage. There shouldn't even be a debate. People should have enough money live on, especially when they are employed by billion £ tax dodging profit making corporations, who are the ones ripping the country apart. And no, I'm not a public sector striker before the daily mail brigade wade in.[/p][/quote]Great Comment, well said. Thumbs Up![/p][/quote]You strike in the Private Secter mate,You will be shown the door. Next day a Pole will take your job .and be happy to take less wages. Thats what you get for Voting Lib Dem /Labour.The EU. Unless you are a public secter worker. Above average salery + A fantastic sick pay scheme ,and a Pention that we in the private secter can only dream of,.. Having said that,.I have great respect for the emergency services,. The Firebrigade have a just cause for protest,.I cant see a 60 yr old man having the fitness etc to do the job. Care workers also need a big increase in their salery.They do a fantastic job, The rest of them have a good salary etc .So get back to work. I know all you public secter workers vote Lib Dem /Labour.because you think they have your interests at heart, Well think on this .Those two partys want to stay in the EU,. That means YOUR JOB will be at great risk ,for any EU worker to apply and take.Think About it ,before you put your X next May.[/p][/quote]Well both Ziggy & I work in the Private Sector so I'm not sure who your comment is aimed at but it seems to me that too many people in the Private Sector would rather be the lowest common denominator and instead of doing something about their own conditions just choose to bash the public sector. My job is not going to be given to a pole, or any of the other 30 or so nationalities I work with, even if I did decide to exercise my democratic right to strike. Additionally voting Labour or LibDem would probably make the recruitment aspects of my job rather difficult so that won't be happening either. boardsandphotos
  • Score: 3

10:24am Fri 11 Jul 14

Marty Caine UKIP says...

So do all those who went out on strike actually feel like they achieved something yesterday? I am sure the unions will be overjoyed at fooling people to lose a days pay just so they can have the gratification of taking a pop at the government and I am sure the government are thinking so what.
So do all those who went out on strike actually feel like they achieved something yesterday? I am sure the unions will be overjoyed at fooling people to lose a days pay just so they can have the gratification of taking a pop at the government and I am sure the government are thinking so what. Marty Caine UKIP
  • Score: 0

10:42am Fri 11 Jul 14

spooki says...

I needed to use a library computer yesterday to print something out. Castlepoint was closed, Charminster was closed, yet Winton, Kinson and others were open. What's the point of that? Apart from stressing me out and having to trek over to Winton to print something. That hasn't made me any more sympathetic.
What if shop workers or bar/restaurant staff had a strike? What would people do then? I bet the people that were off yesterday weren't all standing around holding placards or signs, they were at shops or getting lunch.
I worked in the stockroom of a very popular shop and the pressure to get things done on time (impossible) were amazing yet we managed on a low hourly rate.
I needed to use a library computer yesterday to print something out. Castlepoint was closed, Charminster was closed, yet Winton, Kinson and others were open. What's the point of that? Apart from stressing me out and having to trek over to Winton to print something. That hasn't made me any more sympathetic. What if shop workers or bar/restaurant staff had a strike? What would people do then? I bet the people that were off yesterday weren't all standing around holding placards or signs, they were at shops or getting lunch. I worked in the stockroom of a very popular shop and the pressure to get things done on time (impossible) were amazing yet we managed on a low hourly rate. spooki
  • Score: 0

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