Bournemouth EchoThousands of Dorset workers join in public sector strikes (From Bournemouth Echo)

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Thousands of Dorset workers join in public sector strikes

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Latest

  • Teachers, firefighters, council workers and civil servants are among those taking part in today's public sector strike.
  • A number of schools are closed or partially open today across Bournemouth, Poole, Christchurch, East Dorset and Purbeck.
  • Many council services are set to be disrupted by the one-day walkout with trade unionists set to protest outside the Local Government Association conference in Bournemouth.
  • Bournemouth's council leader John Beesley had criticised the strike and said there would have to be more job losses if higher pay was approved nationally.
  • Refuse and recycling collections are suspended in Poole today and residents have been advised not to put their bins out
  • Firefighters are on strike until 7pm tonight

4:32pm

That's all our coverage for today. Thanks for taking part and giving your views in the strike.

You can read stories on the rally and Nick Clegg's reaction to the strikes below:

 

4:11pm

Thanks to all those of you who have taken part in our poll today.

47% of you support the strike and believe it to be the workers' right to take part in industrial action

3:30pm

We've heard from Borough of Poole about how many workers have been involved in the strike action today.

Carl Wilcox, Head of Human Resources, Borough of Poole, said: “We estimate that around 7% of staff took part in the planned industrial action today. Borough of Poole has worked hard to maintain its services and minimise impact on residents.

“Some services were disrupted however, with several schools partly or fully closed, and refuse and recycling collections suspended for the day. All other council services were able to operate as normal.”

3:03pm

3:02pm

2:55pm

Bournemouth council has posted the following update which includes details on how many staff have taken part in today's industrial action:

Today’s industrial action has had a low impact on Council services.

We have prioritised essential frontline services and put in place contingency arrangements to minimise disruption to residents.

In total 141 Council staff have taken industrial action which equates to 5.46% of the workforce.

2:34pm

We've been sent this picture of a group of people who have taken part in today's rally outside the BIC

Bournemouth Echo:

2:13pm

And here's the video footage we promised you earlier of the rally outside the BIC

1:51pm

Here are some pictures of the rally from a little earlier

Bournemouth Echo:

Bournemouth Echo:

Bournemouth Echo:

1:47pm

We're just uploading some video footage of workers and union officials taking part in a rally outside the BIC which we'll have online for you shortly.

1:16pm

1:13pm

12:51pm

12:43pm

12:43pm

12:39pm

Bournemouth council has put out the following information on refuse and recycling collections:

Some service disruption with 23% of the workforce taking industrial action. Residents should put out as normal all bins that are scheduled for collection today. Please put any uncollected bins out every week day (so, NOT Saturday or Sunday) until they have been emptied. Every effort will made to catch up all missed bins, whether refuse, food, recycling or green waste, within one week.

12:30pm

Dorset Fire & Rescue Service should have at least half of its fire appliances operating today, despite many of its firefighters going on strike.

Fire Chief Darran Gunter has assured members of the public 999 calls will be answered, but says priority will be given to calls where lives are in danger or someone needs to be rescued

He added: “If we respond to non-emergency calls than those most in need, could be at risk, so please only ring 999 if a fire engine is really needed.”

This is the fifteenth Fire Brigades Union strike since September.

Industrial action is planned today until 7pm.
 

12:21pm

Our reporter Mel is off to cover a rally which is due to take place shortly.

Union members are due to assemble by the pier and march up to the BIC where the Local Government Association conference is taking place. 

We'll have some updates for you from the scene. 

12:18pm

More schools are open than closed today across Bournemouth, Poole, Christchurch and East Dorset today.
 
You can see a full list here
 

12:02pm

11:59am Thu 10 Jul 14

lilac123 says

As a local self employed Toys & Puzzles shop owner, this year has seen me taking a pay cut. we are all feeling the pinch but striking and causing people to take day off to look after their children, or events organised having to be changed, is wrong. We would all like to live in a world that pay more money for less hours and gives us more when we retire but that is not the case. Surly no pay rise is better than people being laid off work. Those that strike get no support from me.

11:53am

11:49am

A Network Rail spokesman told our reporter Jim: “Whenever there have been fire strikes in the past one of the repercussions is that we cannot allow steam trains to run on the network.

“In the days when the railway was largely operated by steam, the trains kept all the trackside vegetation cut back because, basically, they kept setting fire to the stuff.

“Today most of our trains, on our much greener railway, are diesel or electric, and we have many trees trackside. Unfortunately, this means steam trains do pose a bit of a fire risk.

“Normally, to accommodate steam enthusiasts, it is manageable – but it does mean that if there is a fire strike we have to impose a safety ban.”

11:39am

We have some more information on the tweet we posted earlier about the effect the strike was having on a historic train excursion that was due to steam into Swanage station.

Surrey-based Steam Dreams, who operate the Cathedrals Express, were set to run a steam train from London Victoria to Swanage.

However, because Dorset firefighters from the Fire Brigades Union (FBU) are supporting the walkout, Network Rail ordered the company to replace the steam locomotives with two diesel engines as a safety precaution.

Steam Dreams confirmed they have been barred from operating a steam locomotive on the mainline while the fire strike is taking place.

 

11:15am

This comment has been posted by one of our site users below

10:56am Thu 10 Jul 14

Ziggy starburst says

Bla bla it's not fair, I don't get a pension. I'm in the real world. I can't afford to heat my home so why should they. I haven't had a holiday for 3 years and I heard that teachers have 40 holidays a year. I haven't got a fire engine, why should they have a fire engine. That's not fair. I'm happy to blindly join in the race to the bottom by relating everything to myself. There IS enough money to go round, it's just that it isn't being shared equally. It's all being passed upward to the rich right under your noses and YOURE supporting THAT instead of teachers, firemen etc. If you can't be bothered to support them (and each other) you deserve your zero hours contracts that you are either on now or will be in a few years time. You've only got yourselves to blame. I support anyone who is giving up a days pay for decent working conditions. It says something of the state of this country that there is a debate on a living wage. There shouldn't even be a debate. People should have enough money live on, especially when they are employed by billion £ tax dodging profit making corporations, who are the ones ripping the country apart. And no, I'm not a public sector striker before the daily mail brigade wade in.

11:01am

11:00am

Joanne Kaye, regional secretary for Unison, said many workers were relying on benefits to supplement their wages and would be better off working at Tesco’s.

She said: “We know that last year Bournemouth put £66m back into its reserves at a time when members have spent all their savings and are living on credit.”

She added that paying workers more would give them more disposable income and boost the local economy.

10:53am

Youth advisors Lorna Clark and Angie Craig, who support people with learning disabilities, said they were striking to raise awareness of staff in poorly paid positions.

Lorna said: “I work in schools and recognise that teaching assistants get paid particularly badly. I don’t know how on earth they live on it.

“But from our point of view, we haven’t had a pay rise for three years, followed by a one per cent rise. It is not easy for anyone.”

Angie added: “One per cent will mean absolutely nothing to people on very low wages. Take away inflation and it is a pay cut.”

10:50am

10:48am

10:45am

An interesting view from one of our commenters

10:34am Thu 10 Jul 14

Ragwin says

If the public sector workers can legally strike to not provide their time then I should be able to legally strike to not pay the council tax towards their wages.

10:43am

Labour group leader Cllr Ben Grower, a trade unionist for 40 years, is at the Town Hall supporting the staff walkout.

He said: “I believe everybody has the right to strike especially those who are being underpaid and whose pay and conditions have been eroded so much over the last few years.”

He said the blame lay with the Government and not with Bournemouth council and said: “What’s incredible is that Iain Duncan Smith has just wasted £600m on a computer system that doesn’t work for universal credit yet he can’t find money to pay local government workers. He is at the BIC for the Local Government Association conference today, if I get a chance I will ask him about that.”

10:42am

Dave Higgins, Bournemouth council’s Unison representative, is also outside the Town Hall.

He said: “We’ve been trying to sort this out across the negotiating table since 2010 and it just hasn’t worked.

“We’ve done everything in our powers and now members have said enough is enough and voted to take action.

“It’s not something we like doing because we care about the people we look after but it’s our only option if negotiations fail.”

10:40am

10:36am

10:35am

We're getting a lot of reaction from our followers on Twitter today. We'd love to hear your thoughts on the strike action. 

You can get involved by leaving a comment below or by tweeting @Bournemouthecho

If you strong agree or disagree with any of the tweets we've published so far then we'd love to hear your views!

10:33am

10:32am

Mike Cracknell, Unison regional organiser, is at the picket line outside the town hall.

He said: “The current offer (of 1 per cent) is woefully inadequate for our members to survive on.

“Many are having to resort to foodbanks to have to make ends meet. All we’re asking for is a fair day’s pay for a fair day’s work.

“We’ve had a lot of support from the public, many people passing by today have been hooting their horns.

“We hope it will make some difference but of course this is the start of a strategic campaign to secure a reasonable increase after year after year of pay freeze.”

10:26am

Borough of Poole have also said both lifting bridges are fully operational and services other than refuse and recycling are operating as normal.

10:23am

10:18am

There is currently around 20 council staff and union officials outside Bournemouth Town Hall.

Sandi Webb, an antisocial behaviour officer, said: “I’m here today because I want fair pay for all the public sector workers that have come out. We just want a decent salary.

“We’ve had an 18 per cent pay cut in the last four years and the cost of living is rising. Food and fuel bills have gone up, my mortgage has gone up but my salary hasn’t.

“I’m a single parent with three teenage children so I’m really feeling it. And I think a lot of council staff suffer silently.”

10:15am

Andy Geeves, of the GMB Union at Bournemouth council, said there was a picket line at the council’s Southcote Road depot from 4am.

He said the strike was well supported by refuse workers and only 10 out of 23 refuse lorries going out this morning.

He said some of these were under capacity with only one loader on board.

He said highways and street cleansing was also affected and the council had brought in agency staff to try and cover the rounds.

10:11am

Live in Poole? your refuse and recycling collections are suspended today. Borough of Poole have posted the following update on their website:

Refuse and recycling collections are suspended. Residents are advised not to put their bins out, and not to contact us to advise of missed bin collections.

We anticipate that garden waste collections will also be disrupted however we ask residents to place their green bins out for collection in the event services do operate. If your green bin is not emptied today, please report the missed collection tomorrow using the Report It page.

The council will collect additional refuse and recycling for those residents who miss a collection today with their next scheduled collection. Bagged refuse and recycling will be collected on this occasion only in addition to waste in black and blue bins.

10:04am

10:02am

The firefighters’ dispute has continued for months as the FBU says firefighters are facing the imposition of a pension that ignores the physical demands of the job they do.

Matt Wrack said: “Despite endless assurances they have done precisely nothing to address the threat to firefighters as their fitness declines in their 50s.

“Firefighting is a dangerous and physically demanding job which requires specific fitness standards.

“It is obvious to everyone that it is more and more difficult to meet those standards in your 50s compared to your 20s.

”Firefighters in that position face a stark choice of being sacked or losing half their pension.

“This is outrageous and all the claims that the government values our firefighters have been exposed as an utter lie.

“They need to wake up to the fact that we are not going away and we will be continuing our fight for pension justice.”

10:01am

Matt Wrack, FBU general secretary, said: “The FBU has wanted to settle our dispute for a long time, but the government at Westminster is simply not listening.

“We are therefore proud to take strike action alongside our colleagues in other unions on 10 July.

“The fact that this government has united so many workers to take strike action against them is a testament to the failure of their policies.

“They are destroying our public services and wrecking the lives of millions.

“If they won’t listen and won’t negotiate then this is the result — and they should face more of the same if necessary.”

 

10:00am

Firefighters in Dorset have joined hundreds of thousands of other public sector workers taking strike action today.

The long-running dispute over firefighters’ pensions has resulted in a further day of strikes at the same time as the walk out by local government workers, teachers and civil servants over a range of issues, including attacks on pay and pensions and workloads, says the Fire Brigades Union (FBU)

 

9:53am

9:41am

Live in Christchurch? Dorset For You issued the following advice to residents on their website:

Christchurch Borough Council will be operating as normal on Thursday 10 July and arrangements are being put in place to minimise disruption to services during the nation-wide industrial action. The council offices will be open as usual, however, people telephoning the council may experience longer waiting times than normal.

9:36am

9:35am

An update on what's happening in Poole:

A small picket greeted staff and visitors to Poole Civic Centre this morning, with one placard-bearing union member on each of the entrances to Borough of Poole’s offices.

9:32am

9:30am

We've had the following statement through from Joanne Kaye, UNISON South West Regional Secretary:

“All of our members who work in Local Government contribute to the quality of life for all our citizens, in towns, cities and villages. They clean the streets, empty the bins and make sure the street lights come on at dark. They care for the elderly in their own homes or in residential care.

“All of these jobs are done in a climate of vanishing resources. The plasters on the grazed knees are all too often brought in by the school secretary herself. The home carer, given 15 minutes to care for an elderly person, who knows they will be the sole face that person sees all day, stays longer, working for free because walking out on time is too hard.

"365 days a year, our members work in roles they love, but which often take a huge emotional demand. And in return, they are told they cost too much, their pay is frozen year on year and then a desultory 1% offer is made. In 2010 when the chancellor announced a public sector pay freeze, with £250 for those earning less than £21000, workers in Local Government were left out. School cleaners were told they were worth less than a government office cleaner, even though research shows overwhelmingly that money earned in wages is spent in local businesses and boosts the economy.

“Our members can no longer be placed in the intolerable position of struggling with basic bills, week in and week out. Every week UNISONs Welfare Charity makes hardship payments of £13,000 to struggling families, we are a wealthy country and this is a scandal.”

“Council workers have kept on going in the face of four years of draconian Government cuts to keep local services across the South West running. They care for our elderly and our vulnerable, keep our streets clean and educate and look after our children. They deserve better treatment than they have had at the hands of this Government.

“Taking strike action is never easy but our members are sending a clear message to the Government that they have had enough.  Low paid women make up the backbone of most local councils and they deserve to be paid a decent wage.

“The employers must get back into talks immediately to avoid a damaging dispute.”

9:21am

9:18am

9:08am

9:04am

8:54am

Have you had to make special arrangements today as your child's school is closed or partially open?

Demand for last-minute child care has more than doubled due to the teachers’ strike, it has been claimed.

Provider Emergency Childcare said it has seen a huge rise in inquiries and bookings.

Operations manager Andy Major said: “Working parents have been severely affected by the strike and while some employers will allow their staff time off, many employees simply need to be at work so they have no other option but to call us.”

8:45am

8:45am

Dorset Councils have posted the following information for residents on rubbish collections on their website:

Rubbish and recycling collections in Dorset will continue as usual, where possible. If Thursday is your collection day, please put your containers out for collection as normal. Efforts will be made to keep collections running, though if we do not collect your rubbish by the end of the day please leave it out until the end of Saturday 12 July, when we will carry out catch-up collections.
If you do not want to wait for a collection, you can take your waste to your local household recycling centre.

8:36am

We've had this comment sent through from a reader who wishes to remain anonymous:

Who will fight our corner. Council workers will go in strike to try and get a pay increase. I work for a sub contractor to the council working alongside council employees that are already earn more than me.

I get paid minimum wage and work in poor conditions. I don't even get sick pay. Some of my colleagues are working 7 days a week to earn enough to meet their basic needs. How do we get a pay increase without the support of the major unions without loosing our jobs.

We clean the streets rather than be unemployed but are forgotten and no one us fighting our corner. The council are aware if our conditions but continue to sub contract to the lowest bid without looking into the employers practice and treatment if workers. It's got to stop.  

8:34am

And here's a list of the schools that are partially open:

Bournemouth

  • Linwood School

Christchurch

  • Christchurch Infant School
  • Burton Primary School

Poole

  • Bearwood Primary and Nursery
  • Longfleet CE VC Primary School
  • Longspee Special School
  • Hamworthy Park Junior School
  • St Joseph’s RC VA Primary
  • Branksome Heath Junior
  • Turlin Moor Community School

East Dorset

  • Corfe Hills School, opens at 11am
  • Wimborne First School, only reception and year one classes closed
  • Queen Elizabeth School, year 9 and 10 not open but teaching for year 12 is going ahead

Purbeck

  • The Purbeck School, closed to Year 9 students but open to all other students

 

8:26am

A number of schools are closed or partially closed across Bournemouth, Poole and Christchurch today. Here's a list of closed schools:

Closed

Bournemouth

  • Bourne Academy
  • Elm Academy
  • Heathlands Primary School
  • Hill View Primary School
  • Kings Park Primary
  • Kingsleigh Primary School
  • Malmesbury Park Primary School
  • St Clement’s and St John’s
  • St Luke’s Primary
  • St Michael’s Primary
  • Pokesdown Community Primary
  • Winton Primary School

Christchurch

  • Christchurch Junior School
  • Mudeford Junior School.

Poole

  • Ad Astra Infant School
  • Montacute Special School
  • Oakdale Junior School
  • Winchelsea School

 

8:23am

Good morning. More than a million public sector workers across the UK are taking part in a one-day walkout today.

Throughout the day we'll be giving you coverage of what's happening both locally and nationally.

Comments (40)

Please log in to enable comment sorting

9:24am Thu 10 Jul 14

BarrHumbug says...

I think the 8:36am comment above pretty much says it all. I think the Echo need to read it first though before saying the person is supporting the strike?
I think the 8:36am comment above pretty much says it all. I think the Echo need to read it first though before saying the person is supporting the strike? BarrHumbug
  • Score: 1

10:34am Thu 10 Jul 14

Ragwin says...

If the public sector workers can legally strike to not provide their time then I should be able to legally strike to not pay the council tax towards their wages.
If the public sector workers can legally strike to not provide their time then I should be able to legally strike to not pay the council tax towards their wages. Ragwin
  • Score: 9

10:43am Thu 10 Jul 14

uvox44 says...

Strange how when bankers and directors pay is discussed the Govt always says they need to have huge rewards to get the top people ( and if the people that almost bankrupted us by reckless speculating , tacticly condoned by the Govt - Labour and Tory- are the "top" people God help us!),yet the people who do the really necessary and dirty work are told they need to work for a pittance to keep their jobs! And when they are forced to strike the same Govt then calls them irresponsible for affecting the public - so they should work for low wages out of a sense of civic responsibility but the "captains of industry" should be left to risk our money ( bank bail outs remember- come on people it wasn't that long ago!) and need to make huge profits else they'll (supposedly) go abroad ? The Capitalist ideology has it all sewn up! But the real sad trick they play is to turn worker against worker (self-employed against council, private against public ) whilst laughing all the way to the banks!
Strange how when bankers and directors pay is discussed the Govt always says they need to have huge rewards to get the top people ( and if the people that almost bankrupted us by reckless speculating , tacticly condoned by the Govt - Labour and Tory- are the "top" people God help us!),yet the people who do the really necessary and dirty work are told they need to work for a pittance to keep their jobs! And when they are forced to strike the same Govt then calls them irresponsible for affecting the public - so they should work for low wages out of a sense of civic responsibility but the "captains of industry" should be left to risk our money ( bank bail outs remember- come on people it wasn't that long ago!) and need to make huge profits else they'll (supposedly) go abroad ? The Capitalist ideology has it all sewn up! But the real sad trick they play is to turn worker against worker (self-employed against council, private against public ) whilst laughing all the way to the banks! uvox44
  • Score: 18

10:46am Thu 10 Jul 14

Bluestew says...

SOLIDARITY to ALL workers striking today for fairer wages and conditions and rights.

The working population now resigned to low wages, pay cuts and zero-hour contracts where their rights to overtime, sick pay, and job security are being annihilated by government and ideology. Where hikes in VAT , in work benefits and pensions are being attacked , the real wages of workers are being cut.

Shame on Beesley's stance.... but who'd expect the privatised greedy hand of this council to actually support the people... over their own system of asset stripping and pay hikes and bonuses.
SOLIDARITY to ALL workers striking today for fairer wages and conditions and rights. The working population now resigned to low wages, pay cuts and zero-hour contracts where their rights to overtime, sick pay, and job security are being annihilated by government and ideology. Where hikes in VAT , in work benefits and pensions are being attacked , the real wages of workers are being cut. Shame on Beesley's stance.... but who'd expect the privatised greedy hand of this council to actually support the people... over their own system of asset stripping and pay hikes and bonuses. Bluestew
  • Score: 8

10:56am Thu 10 Jul 14

Ziggy starburst says...

Bla bla it's not fair, I don't get a pension. I'm in the real world. I can't afford to heat my home so why should they. I haven't had a holiday for 3 years and I heard that teachers have 40 holidays a year. I haven't got a fire engine, why should they have a fire engine. That's not fair. I'm happy to blindly join in the race to the bottom by relating everything to myself. There IS enough money to go round, it's just that it isn't being shared equally. It's all being passed upward to the rich right under your noses and YOURE supporting THAT instead of teachers, firemen etc. If you can't be bothered to support them (and each other) you deserve your zero hours contracts that you are either on now or will be in a few years time. You've only got yourselves to blame. I support anyone who is giving up a days pay for decent working conditions. It says something of the state of this country that there is a debate on a living wage. There shouldn't even be a debate. People should have enough money live on, especially when they are employed by billion £ tax dodging profit making corporations, who are the ones ripping the country apart. And no, I'm not a public sector striker before the daily mail brigade wade in.
Bla bla it's not fair, I don't get a pension. I'm in the real world. I can't afford to heat my home so why should they. I haven't had a holiday for 3 years and I heard that teachers have 40 holidays a year. I haven't got a fire engine, why should they have a fire engine. That's not fair. I'm happy to blindly join in the race to the bottom by relating everything to myself. There IS enough money to go round, it's just that it isn't being shared equally. It's all being passed upward to the rich right under your noses and YOURE supporting THAT instead of teachers, firemen etc. If you can't be bothered to support them (and each other) you deserve your zero hours contracts that you are either on now or will be in a few years time. You've only got yourselves to blame. I support anyone who is giving up a days pay for decent working conditions. It says something of the state of this country that there is a debate on a living wage. There shouldn't even be a debate. People should have enough money live on, especially when they are employed by billion £ tax dodging profit making corporations, who are the ones ripping the country apart. And no, I'm not a public sector striker before the daily mail brigade wade in. Ziggy starburst
  • Score: 11

10:58am Thu 10 Jul 14

speedy231278 says...

"There is currently around 20 council staff and union officials outside Bournemouth Town Hall."

There ARE currently....

Honestly, did any Echo employees learn English?
"There is currently around 20 council staff and union officials outside Bournemouth Town Hall." There ARE currently.... Honestly, did any Echo employees learn English? speedy231278
  • Score: 11

11:00am Thu 10 Jul 14

speedy231278 says...

It is a shame that more workers weren't on strike. I was woken up at 4.45am today by two road sweepers!
It is a shame that more workers weren't on strike. I was woken up at 4.45am today by two road sweepers! speedy231278
  • Score: 11

11:19am Thu 10 Jul 14

uvox44 says...

totally agree Ziggy, even though i pressed a thumbs down by mistake! doh!
totally agree Ziggy, even though i pressed a thumbs down by mistake! doh! uvox44
  • Score: 1

11:28am Thu 10 Jul 14

boardsandphotos says...

Ziggy starburst wrote:
Bla bla it's not fair, I don't get a pension. I'm in the real world. I can't afford to heat my home so why should they. I haven't had a holiday for 3 years and I heard that teachers have 40 holidays a year. I haven't got a fire engine, why should they have a fire engine. That's not fair. I'm happy to blindly join in the race to the bottom by relating everything to myself. There IS enough money to go round, it's just that it isn't being shared equally. It's all being passed upward to the rich right under your noses and YOURE supporting THAT instead of teachers, firemen etc. If you can't be bothered to support them (and each other) you deserve your zero hours contracts that you are either on now or will be in a few years time. You've only got yourselves to blame. I support anyone who is giving up a days pay for decent working conditions. It says something of the state of this country that there is a debate on a living wage. There shouldn't even be a debate. People should have enough money live on, especially when they are employed by billion £ tax dodging profit making corporations, who are the ones ripping the country apart. And no, I'm not a public sector striker before the daily mail brigade wade in.
Great Comment, well said. Thumbs Up!
[quote][p][bold]Ziggy starburst[/bold] wrote: Bla bla it's not fair, I don't get a pension. I'm in the real world. I can't afford to heat my home so why should they. I haven't had a holiday for 3 years and I heard that teachers have 40 holidays a year. I haven't got a fire engine, why should they have a fire engine. That's not fair. I'm happy to blindly join in the race to the bottom by relating everything to myself. There IS enough money to go round, it's just that it isn't being shared equally. It's all being passed upward to the rich right under your noses and YOURE supporting THAT instead of teachers, firemen etc. If you can't be bothered to support them (and each other) you deserve your zero hours contracts that you are either on now or will be in a few years time. You've only got yourselves to blame. I support anyone who is giving up a days pay for decent working conditions. It says something of the state of this country that there is a debate on a living wage. There shouldn't even be a debate. People should have enough money live on, especially when they are employed by billion £ tax dodging profit making corporations, who are the ones ripping the country apart. And no, I'm not a public sector striker before the daily mail brigade wade in.[/p][/quote]Great Comment, well said. Thumbs Up! boardsandphotos
  • Score: 11

11:49am Thu 10 Jul 14

FreeLoader Culture says...

What a beautiful day for not bothering to turn up for work. Excellent choice of date by the Union Leaders. Would prefer a Friday next time please so I can make a nice long weekend.
What a beautiful day for not bothering to turn up for work. Excellent choice of date by the Union Leaders. Would prefer a Friday next time please so I can make a nice long weekend. FreeLoader Culture
  • Score: -7

11:59am Thu 10 Jul 14

lilac123 says...

As a local self employed Toys & Puzzles shop owner, this year has seen me taking a pay cut. we are all feeling the pinch but striking and causing people to take day off to look after their children, or events organised having to be changed, is wrong. We would all like to live in a world that pay more money for less hours and gives us more when we retire but that is not the case. Surly no pay rise is better than people being laid off work. Those that strike get no support from me.
As a local self employed Toys & Puzzles shop owner, this year has seen me taking a pay cut. we are all feeling the pinch but striking and causing people to take day off to look after their children, or events organised having to be changed, is wrong. We would all like to live in a world that pay more money for less hours and gives us more when we retire but that is not the case. Surly no pay rise is better than people being laid off work. Those that strike get no support from me. lilac123
  • Score: -1

12:06pm Thu 10 Jul 14

bmthlad says...

Did not these workers strike-ing know the pay and conditions when they took the jobs? Get back to work. What are the teachers after, more holidays???
Did not these workers strike-ing know the pay and conditions when they took the jobs? Get back to work. What are the teachers after, more holidays??? bmthlad
  • Score: -3

12:45pm Thu 10 Jul 14

boardsandphotos says...

bmthlad wrote:
Did not these workers strike-ing know the pay and conditions when they took the jobs? Get back to work. What are the teachers after, more holidays???
I think it's you who needs to go back to School, not the Teachers.
[quote][p][bold]bmthlad[/bold] wrote: Did not these workers strike-ing know the pay and conditions when they took the jobs? Get back to work. What are the teachers after, more holidays???[/p][/quote]I think it's you who needs to go back to School, not the Teachers. boardsandphotos
  • Score: -4

12:48pm Thu 10 Jul 14

bmthlad says...

boardsandphotos wrote:
bmthlad wrote:
Did not these workers strike-ing know the pay and conditions when they took the jobs? Get back to work. What are the teachers after, more holidays???
I think it's you who needs to go back to School, not the Teachers.
Really valuable contribution to the discussion. Well done
[quote][p][bold]boardsandphotos[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bmthlad[/bold] wrote: Did not these workers strike-ing know the pay and conditions when they took the jobs? Get back to work. What are the teachers after, more holidays???[/p][/quote]I think it's you who needs to go back to School, not the Teachers.[/p][/quote]Really valuable contribution to the discussion. Well done bmthlad
  • Score: 2

1:52pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Chris60 says...

Ziggy starburst wrote:
Bla bla it's not fair, I don't get a pension. I'm in the real world. I can't afford to heat my home so why should they. I haven't had a holiday for 3 years and I heard that teachers have 40 holidays a year. I haven't got a fire engine, why should they have a fire engine. That's not fair. I'm happy to blindly join in the race to the bottom by relating everything to myself. There IS enough money to go round, it's just that it isn't being shared equally. It's all being passed upward to the rich right under your noses and YOURE supporting THAT instead of teachers, firemen etc. If you can't be bothered to support them (and each other) you deserve your zero hours contracts that you are either on now or will be in a few years time. You've only got yourselves to blame. I support anyone who is giving up a days pay for decent working conditions. It says something of the state of this country that there is a debate on a living wage. There shouldn't even be a debate. People should have enough money live on, especially when they are employed by billion £ tax dodging profit making corporations, who are the ones ripping the country apart. And no, I'm not a public sector striker before the daily mail brigade wade in.
Absolutely spot on, the race to the bottom gathers pace...
[quote][p][bold]Ziggy starburst[/bold] wrote: Bla bla it's not fair, I don't get a pension. I'm in the real world. I can't afford to heat my home so why should they. I haven't had a holiday for 3 years and I heard that teachers have 40 holidays a year. I haven't got a fire engine, why should they have a fire engine. That's not fair. I'm happy to blindly join in the race to the bottom by relating everything to myself. There IS enough money to go round, it's just that it isn't being shared equally. It's all being passed upward to the rich right under your noses and YOURE supporting THAT instead of teachers, firemen etc. If you can't be bothered to support them (and each other) you deserve your zero hours contracts that you are either on now or will be in a few years time. You've only got yourselves to blame. I support anyone who is giving up a days pay for decent working conditions. It says something of the state of this country that there is a debate on a living wage. There shouldn't even be a debate. People should have enough money live on, especially when they are employed by billion £ tax dodging profit making corporations, who are the ones ripping the country apart. And no, I'm not a public sector striker before the daily mail brigade wade in.[/p][/quote]Absolutely spot on, the race to the bottom gathers pace... Chris60
  • Score: 10

1:58pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Chris60 says...

bmthlad wrote:
Did not these workers strike-ing know the pay and conditions when they took the jobs? Get back to work. What are the teachers after, more holidays???
Pay and conditions have changed/are changing (pay by freeze and pensions by reducing benefits). Yes, I know public service pensions are better than the vast majority of private sector ones (I work in the private sector) but that was what they were promised when they took the jobs and in any event, I don't subscribe to "If I can't have it neither should anybody else". I assume from your comment that your employer can do whatever they like with your pay and conditions and you'd smile as you licked their .....
[quote][p][bold]bmthlad[/bold] wrote: Did not these workers strike-ing know the pay and conditions when they took the jobs? Get back to work. What are the teachers after, more holidays???[/p][/quote]Pay and conditions have changed/are changing (pay by freeze and pensions by reducing benefits). Yes, I know public service pensions are better than the vast majority of private sector ones (I work in the private sector) but that was what they were promised when they took the jobs and in any event, I don't subscribe to "If I can't have it neither should anybody else". I assume from your comment that your employer can do whatever they like with your pay and conditions and you'd smile as you licked their ..... Chris60
  • Score: 6

2:13pm Thu 10 Jul 14

dorsetgills says...

Thank you teachers if you want a better pension go find it and pay and from your own wages like me and million others you do get paid £30,000 plus a year £10,000 more than I do and I never strike and moan about conditions blah, blah, blah just do your job
Thank you teachers if you want a better pension go find it and pay and from your own wages like me and million others you do get paid £30,000 plus a year £10,000 more than I do and I never strike and moan about conditions blah, blah, blah just do your job dorsetgills
  • Score: 5

2:24pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Baysider says...

dorsetgills wrote:
Thank you teachers if you want a better pension go find it and pay and from your own wages like me and million others you do get paid £30,000 plus a year £10,000 more than I do and I never strike and moan about conditions blah, blah, blah just do your job
Alternatively if you think it's such a cushy deal, spend several years of your life training to be a teacher and hop on board the gravy train...
[quote][p][bold]dorsetgills[/bold] wrote: Thank you teachers if you want a better pension go find it and pay and from your own wages like me and million others you do get paid £30,000 plus a year £10,000 more than I do and I never strike and moan about conditions blah, blah, blah just do your job[/p][/quote]Alternatively if you think it's such a cushy deal, spend several years of your life training to be a teacher and hop on board the gravy train... Baysider
  • Score: 3

2:31pm Thu 10 Jul 14

wilko2014 says...

Chris60 wrote:
bmthlad wrote:
Did not these workers strike-ing know the pay and conditions when they took the jobs? Get back to work. What are the teachers after, more holidays???
Pay and conditions have changed/are changing (pay by freeze and pensions by reducing benefits). Yes, I know public service pensions are better than the vast majority of private sector ones (I work in the private sector) but that was what they were promised when they took the jobs and in any event, I don't subscribe to "If I can't have it neither should anybody else". I assume from your comment that your employer can do whatever they like with your pay and conditions and you'd smile as you licked their .....
I can understand people protesting to keep their pay and benefits unchanged, particularly when they were better in the past. However, to refuse to acknowledge how our economy and people's life expectancies have changed and that older remuneration packages may not be affordable does nothing to change the finances of the situation.

Public sector pay is still on par with the private sector, if not slightly better, for comparative occupations. As for the benefits, and pensions in particular, there is an astonishing lack of awareness of the total value of those available to the public sector, even after the proposed changes come into effect. Purely as an example, a teacher retiring with, say, 20 years' service and a career average salary of £35,000 would be entitled to an annual pension of just over £12,000. This pension will increase with inflation every year and also be paid to their husband or wife if the pensioner dies first. A seemingly modest amount of income, perhaps, and quite average earnings figures, but this is where the reality check comes in. For a person who has had to save for their pension outside of a public sector scheme, they would need a pension fund in excess of £400,000 to get an equivalent income when they retire and the income won't be guaranteed, but dependent on what rates they can get at the time.
I'm not saying that public sector workers don't deserve good quality pensions as part of their remuneration packages - I don't know them, I don't know what jobs they do or how hard they work. The unions, however, never seem to actually quantify the value of benefits and pensions in particular. If they did, perhaps there would be some recognition that what the unions are calling for is way in excess of anything equivalent in the private sector and only fuels the 'us and them' arguments, but not necessarily in the way they intend.
[quote][p][bold]Chris60[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bmthlad[/bold] wrote: Did not these workers strike-ing know the pay and conditions when they took the jobs? Get back to work. What are the teachers after, more holidays???[/p][/quote]Pay and conditions have changed/are changing (pay by freeze and pensions by reducing benefits). Yes, I know public service pensions are better than the vast majority of private sector ones (I work in the private sector) but that was what they were promised when they took the jobs and in any event, I don't subscribe to "If I can't have it neither should anybody else". I assume from your comment that your employer can do whatever they like with your pay and conditions and you'd smile as you licked their .....[/p][/quote]I can understand people protesting to keep their pay and benefits unchanged, particularly when they were better in the past. However, to refuse to acknowledge how our economy and people's life expectancies have changed and that older remuneration packages may not be affordable does nothing to change the finances of the situation. Public sector pay is still on par with the private sector, if not slightly better, for comparative occupations. As for the benefits, and pensions in particular, there is an astonishing lack of awareness of the total value of those available to the public sector, even after the proposed changes come into effect. Purely as an example, a teacher retiring with, say, 20 years' service and a career average salary of £35,000 would be entitled to an annual pension of just over £12,000. This pension will increase with inflation every year and also be paid to their husband or wife if the pensioner dies first. A seemingly modest amount of income, perhaps, and quite average earnings figures, but this is where the reality check comes in. For a person who has had to save for their pension outside of a public sector scheme, they would need a pension fund in excess of £400,000 to get an equivalent income when they retire and the income won't be guaranteed, but dependent on what rates they can get at the time. I'm not saying that public sector workers don't deserve good quality pensions as part of their remuneration packages - I don't know them, I don't know what jobs they do or how hard they work. The unions, however, never seem to actually quantify the value of benefits and pensions in particular. If they did, perhaps there would be some recognition that what the unions are calling for is way in excess of anything equivalent in the private sector and only fuels the 'us and them' arguments, but not necessarily in the way they intend. wilko2014
  • Score: 8

2:37pm Thu 10 Jul 14

cmitchellmx says...

The government need to listen, they will be voted out at the next election as the decent people who work hard have been the ones most affected, yes we have jobs and we appreciate that, we also want a secure future, pay to able to live & a pension that is worth having, I pay £400 a month into mine and have been paying in for 14 years, they now want to change it and make me work ten more years, and sack me if I fail a medical post 50 years old is that fair?! What is the point to bother saving for retirement when they change the goalposts to bail out the greedy bankers?? Unless real change happens we will be a nation of "Jeremy Kyles" benefit street slackers too lazy to bother doing a days work, Where is the incentive to get off the special brew & fags and get a job? The Labour party need to grow a pair and jump on these issues they might actually be a viable alternative if they did! Protect the key workers, kick the lazy and bone idol and support those who really need it! Rant Over......for now!!
The government need to listen, they will be voted out at the next election as the decent people who work hard have been the ones most affected, yes we have jobs and we appreciate that, we also want a secure future, pay to able to live & a pension that is worth having, I pay £400 a month into mine and have been paying in for 14 years, they now want to change it and make me work ten more years, and sack me if I fail a medical post 50 years old is that fair?! What is the point to bother saving for retirement when they change the goalposts to bail out the greedy bankers?? Unless real change happens we will be a nation of "Jeremy Kyles" benefit street slackers too lazy to bother doing a days work, Where is the incentive to get off the special brew & fags and get a job? The Labour party need to grow a pair and jump on these issues they might actually be a viable alternative if they did! Protect the key workers, kick the lazy and bone idol and support those who really need it! Rant Over......for now!! cmitchellmx
  • Score: 5

3:02pm Thu 10 Jul 14

dorsetgills says...

Baysider wrote:
dorsetgills wrote:
Thank you teachers if you want a better pension go find it and pay and from your own wages like me and million others you do get paid £30,000 plus a year £10,000 more than I do and I never strike and moan about conditions blah, blah, blah just do your job
Alternatively if you think it's such a cushy deal, spend several years of your life training to be a teacher and hop on board the gravy train...
I've got family and friends that are teachers and never hear them moan one bit, only about the strikes.
You can big your part up all you like but the same happens to people in all sorts of jobs. I haven't had a pay rise in 4yrs due to economy but when it does come it will be great yet I'm not complaining about it!
[quote][p][bold]Baysider[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]dorsetgills[/bold] wrote: Thank you teachers if you want a better pension go find it and pay and from your own wages like me and million others you do get paid £30,000 plus a year £10,000 more than I do and I never strike and moan about conditions blah, blah, blah just do your job[/p][/quote]Alternatively if you think it's such a cushy deal, spend several years of your life training to be a teacher and hop on board the gravy train...[/p][/quote]I've got family and friends that are teachers and never hear them moan one bit, only about the strikes. You can big your part up all you like but the same happens to people in all sorts of jobs. I haven't had a pay rise in 4yrs due to economy but when it does come it will be great yet I'm not complaining about it! dorsetgills
  • Score: 6

3:22pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Chris60 says...

wilko2014 wrote:
Chris60 wrote:
bmthlad wrote:
Did not these workers strike-ing know the pay and conditions when they took the jobs? Get back to work. What are the teachers after, more holidays???
Pay and conditions have changed/are changing (pay by freeze and pensions by reducing benefits). Yes, I know public service pensions are better than the vast majority of private sector ones (I work in the private sector) but that was what they were promised when they took the jobs and in any event, I don't subscribe to "If I can't have it neither should anybody else". I assume from your comment that your employer can do whatever they like with your pay and conditions and you'd smile as you licked their .....
I can understand people protesting to keep their pay and benefits unchanged, particularly when they were better in the past. However, to refuse to acknowledge how our economy and people's life expectancies have changed and that older remuneration packages may not be affordable does nothing to change the finances of the situation.

Public sector pay is still on par with the private sector, if not slightly better, for comparative occupations. As for the benefits, and pensions in particular, there is an astonishing lack of awareness of the total value of those available to the public sector, even after the proposed changes come into effect. Purely as an example, a teacher retiring with, say, 20 years' service and a career average salary of £35,000 would be entitled to an annual pension of just over £12,000. This pension will increase with inflation every year and also be paid to their husband or wife if the pensioner dies first. A seemingly modest amount of income, perhaps, and quite average earnings figures, but this is where the reality check comes in. For a person who has had to save for their pension outside of a public sector scheme, they would need a pension fund in excess of £400,000 to get an equivalent income when they retire and the income won't be guaranteed, but dependent on what rates they can get at the time.
I'm not saying that public sector workers don't deserve good quality pensions as part of their remuneration packages - I don't know them, I don't know what jobs they do or how hard they work. The unions, however, never seem to actually quantify the value of benefits and pensions in particular. If they did, perhaps there would be some recognition that what the unions are calling for is way in excess of anything equivalent in the private sector and only fuels the 'us and them' arguments, but not necessarily in the way they intend.
I know the value of a defined benefit pension (I work in the industry and your figure is pretty much spot on for the cost of an inflation proofed pension). However, I don't believe the "cure" for our ills is to reduce everybody's pension (or pay) to the lowest level. Better to try and get everybody a decent pension than reduce the relatively few good ones. That may mean saving more, spending less and/or having less pay in return for a higher pension (which is what the public sector were told was the deal when they took their jobs) To fund public sector pensions it may even mean paying more tax (how unthinkable). Remember everybody who doesn't have a decent pension is potentially going to cost us all more in required support when they are retired. For those complaining public sector pay is so good the answer is simple; get a job there (there will be something that nearly every private sector worker could do in the public sector). Perhaps some would like to try the pay of somebody like my daughter who regularly gets a punch or her hair pulled and has to clean up things most of us would be horrified at and all for £13k a year but does the job because she feels it's worthwhile. Even then, she is lucky because she has a good degree and will not be doing that job for many years. Some people have that sort of job and pay for life. Finally, when moaning about the costs (£400,000?) of a public sector pension and that those losing some of this benefit have the temerity to go on strike, try flipping that around and asking how you'd feel if you were told what you'd get when you started a job and were then told that was going to reduce by up to £400,000.
[quote][p][bold]wilko2014[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Chris60[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bmthlad[/bold] wrote: Did not these workers strike-ing know the pay and conditions when they took the jobs? Get back to work. What are the teachers after, more holidays???[/p][/quote]Pay and conditions have changed/are changing (pay by freeze and pensions by reducing benefits). Yes, I know public service pensions are better than the vast majority of private sector ones (I work in the private sector) but that was what they were promised when they took the jobs and in any event, I don't subscribe to "If I can't have it neither should anybody else". I assume from your comment that your employer can do whatever they like with your pay and conditions and you'd smile as you licked their .....[/p][/quote]I can understand people protesting to keep their pay and benefits unchanged, particularly when they were better in the past. However, to refuse to acknowledge how our economy and people's life expectancies have changed and that older remuneration packages may not be affordable does nothing to change the finances of the situation. Public sector pay is still on par with the private sector, if not slightly better, for comparative occupations. As for the benefits, and pensions in particular, there is an astonishing lack of awareness of the total value of those available to the public sector, even after the proposed changes come into effect. Purely as an example, a teacher retiring with, say, 20 years' service and a career average salary of £35,000 would be entitled to an annual pension of just over £12,000. This pension will increase with inflation every year and also be paid to their husband or wife if the pensioner dies first. A seemingly modest amount of income, perhaps, and quite average earnings figures, but this is where the reality check comes in. For a person who has had to save for their pension outside of a public sector scheme, they would need a pension fund in excess of £400,000 to get an equivalent income when they retire and the income won't be guaranteed, but dependent on what rates they can get at the time. I'm not saying that public sector workers don't deserve good quality pensions as part of their remuneration packages - I don't know them, I don't know what jobs they do or how hard they work. The unions, however, never seem to actually quantify the value of benefits and pensions in particular. If they did, perhaps there would be some recognition that what the unions are calling for is way in excess of anything equivalent in the private sector and only fuels the 'us and them' arguments, but not necessarily in the way they intend.[/p][/quote]I know the value of a defined benefit pension (I work in the industry and your figure is pretty much spot on for the cost of an inflation proofed pension). However, I don't believe the "cure" for our ills is to reduce everybody's pension (or pay) to the lowest level. Better to try and get everybody a decent pension than reduce the relatively few good ones. That may mean saving more, spending less and/or having less pay in return for a higher pension (which is what the public sector were told was the deal when they took their jobs) To fund public sector pensions it may even mean paying more tax (how unthinkable). Remember everybody who doesn't have a decent pension is potentially going to cost us all more in required support when they are retired. For those complaining public sector pay is so good the answer is simple; get a job there (there will be something that nearly every private sector worker could do in the public sector). Perhaps some would like to try the pay of somebody like my daughter who regularly gets a punch or her hair pulled and has to clean up things most of us would be horrified at and all for £13k a year but does the job because she feels it's worthwhile. Even then, she is lucky because she has a good degree and will not be doing that job for many years. Some people have that sort of job and pay for life. Finally, when moaning about the costs (£400,000?) of a public sector pension and that those losing some of this benefit have the temerity to go on strike, try flipping that around and asking how you'd feel if you were told what you'd get when you started a job and were then told that was going to reduce by up to £400,000. Chris60
  • Score: 0

3:40pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Chris60 says...

wilko2014 wrote:
Chris60 wrote:
bmthlad wrote:
Did not these workers strike-ing know the pay and conditions when they took the jobs? Get back to work. What are the teachers after, more holidays???
Pay and conditions have changed/are changing (pay by freeze and pensions by reducing benefits). Yes, I know public service pensions are better than the vast majority of private sector ones (I work in the private sector) but that was what they were promised when they took the jobs and in any event, I don't subscribe to "If I can't have it neither should anybody else". I assume from your comment that your employer can do whatever they like with your pay and conditions and you'd smile as you licked their .....
I can understand people protesting to keep their pay and benefits unchanged, particularly when they were better in the past. However, to refuse to acknowledge how our economy and people's life expectancies have changed and that older remuneration packages may not be affordable does nothing to change the finances of the situation.

Public sector pay is still on par with the private sector, if not slightly better, for comparative occupations. As for the benefits, and pensions in particular, there is an astonishing lack of awareness of the total value of those available to the public sector, even after the proposed changes come into effect. Purely as an example, a teacher retiring with, say, 20 years' service and a career average salary of £35,000 would be entitled to an annual pension of just over £12,000. This pension will increase with inflation every year and also be paid to their husband or wife if the pensioner dies first. A seemingly modest amount of income, perhaps, and quite average earnings figures, but this is where the reality check comes in. For a person who has had to save for their pension outside of a public sector scheme, they would need a pension fund in excess of £400,000 to get an equivalent income when they retire and the income won't be guaranteed, but dependent on what rates they can get at the time.
I'm not saying that public sector workers don't deserve good quality pensions as part of their remuneration packages - I don't know them, I don't know what jobs they do or how hard they work. The unions, however, never seem to actually quantify the value of benefits and pensions in particular. If they did, perhaps there would be some recognition that what the unions are calling for is way in excess of anything equivalent in the private sector and only fuels the 'us and them' arguments, but not necessarily in the way they intend.
I know the value of a defined benefit pension (I work in the industry and your figure is pretty much spot on for the cost of an inflation proofed pension). However, I don't believe the "cure" for our ills is to reduce everybody's pension (or pay) to the lowest level. Better to try and get everybody a decent pension than reduce the relatively few good ones. That may mean saving more, spending less and/or having less pay in return for a higher pension (which is what the public sector were told was the deal when they took their jobs) To fund public sector pensions it may even mean paying more tax (how unthinkable). Remember everybody who doesn't have a decent pension is potentially going to cost us all more in required support when they are retired. For those complaining public sector pay is so good the answer is simple; get a job there (there will be something that nearly every private sector worker could do in the public sector). Perhaps some would like to try the pay of somebody like my daughter who regularly gets a punch or her hair pulled and has to clean up things most of us would be horrified at and all for £13k a year but does the job because she feels it's worthwhile. Even then, she is lucky because she has a good degree and will not be doing that job for many years. Some people have that sort of job and pay for life. Finally, when moaning about the costs (£400,000?) of a public sector pension and that those losing some of this benefit have the temerity to go on strike, try flipping that around and asking how you'd feel if you were told what you'd get when you started a job and were then told that was going to reduce by up to £400,000.
[quote][p][bold]wilko2014[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Chris60[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bmthlad[/bold] wrote: Did not these workers strike-ing know the pay and conditions when they took the jobs? Get back to work. What are the teachers after, more holidays???[/p][/quote]Pay and conditions have changed/are changing (pay by freeze and pensions by reducing benefits). Yes, I know public service pensions are better than the vast majority of private sector ones (I work in the private sector) but that was what they were promised when they took the jobs and in any event, I don't subscribe to "If I can't have it neither should anybody else". I assume from your comment that your employer can do whatever they like with your pay and conditions and you'd smile as you licked their .....[/p][/quote]I can understand people protesting to keep their pay and benefits unchanged, particularly when they were better in the past. However, to refuse to acknowledge how our economy and people's life expectancies have changed and that older remuneration packages may not be affordable does nothing to change the finances of the situation. Public sector pay is still on par with the private sector, if not slightly better, for comparative occupations. As for the benefits, and pensions in particular, there is an astonishing lack of awareness of the total value of those available to the public sector, even after the proposed changes come into effect. Purely as an example, a teacher retiring with, say, 20 years' service and a career average salary of £35,000 would be entitled to an annual pension of just over £12,000. This pension will increase with inflation every year and also be paid to their husband or wife if the pensioner dies first. A seemingly modest amount of income, perhaps, and quite average earnings figures, but this is where the reality check comes in. For a person who has had to save for their pension outside of a public sector scheme, they would need a pension fund in excess of £400,000 to get an equivalent income when they retire and the income won't be guaranteed, but dependent on what rates they can get at the time. I'm not saying that public sector workers don't deserve good quality pensions as part of their remuneration packages - I don't know them, I don't know what jobs they do or how hard they work. The unions, however, never seem to actually quantify the value of benefits and pensions in particular. If they did, perhaps there would be some recognition that what the unions are calling for is way in excess of anything equivalent in the private sector and only fuels the 'us and them' arguments, but not necessarily in the way they intend.[/p][/quote]I know the value of a defined benefit pension (I work in the industry and your figure is pretty much spot on for the cost of an inflation proofed pension). However, I don't believe the "cure" for our ills is to reduce everybody's pension (or pay) to the lowest level. Better to try and get everybody a decent pension than reduce the relatively few good ones. That may mean saving more, spending less and/or having less pay in return for a higher pension (which is what the public sector were told was the deal when they took their jobs) To fund public sector pensions it may even mean paying more tax (how unthinkable). Remember everybody who doesn't have a decent pension is potentially going to cost us all more in required support when they are retired. For those complaining public sector pay is so good the answer is simple; get a job there (there will be something that nearly every private sector worker could do in the public sector). Perhaps some would like to try the pay of somebody like my daughter who regularly gets a punch or her hair pulled and has to clean up things most of us would be horrified at and all for £13k a year but does the job because she feels it's worthwhile. Even then, she is lucky because she has a good degree and will not be doing that job for many years. Some people have that sort of job and pay for life. Finally, when moaning about the costs (£400,000?) of a public sector pension and that those losing some of this benefit have the temerity to go on strike, try flipping that around and asking how you'd feel if you were told what you'd get when you started a job and were then told that was going to reduce by up to £400,000. Chris60
  • Score: -7

3:42pm Thu 10 Jul 14

MikeGB says...

I do understand why some public sector workers are angry and I do support that in some circumstances they should be allowed to withdraw their labour to make a stand. However all the rhetoric about solidarity seems futile if the figures given by Bournemouth and Poole are correct between 5 and 7 % out on strike when arguably the action was voted for by a minority of Union members (with many others not in a union employed by the two councils) is simply showing what a waste of time this has been.
I do understand why some public sector workers are angry and I do support that in some circumstances they should be allowed to withdraw their labour to make a stand. However all the rhetoric about solidarity seems futile if the figures given by Bournemouth and Poole are correct between 5 and 7 % out on strike when arguably the action was voted for by a minority of Union members (with many others not in a union employed by the two councils) is simply showing what a waste of time this has been. MikeGB
  • Score: 7

3:43pm Thu 10 Jul 14

wilko2014 says...

I didn't complain about the cost public sector pensions at all, only about the seeming lack of awareness about how much these things cost, whether that be through a final salary scheme or a private pension, and an apparent avoidance by unions to declare the value of the total benefits package. Is it not true that people in the private sector who have diligently saved into their pensions over a working lifetime have also had the goalposts moved? I'm pretty certain that what they were told to expect 10 years ago and what they can expect now are radically different figures, even though they may have been saving exactly the same amount. The two situations don't seem so far apart then.
As it happens, I have fairly strong opinions that as a country as a whole we do not save enough towards our retirement, whether we are compelled to or make our own arrangements and one of the biggest reasons for this is a general lack of understanding of how much it costs to retire. This is a much longer discussion than the point I was trying to make, however, which is the lack of concise and accurate information that is put into the public area when strikes happen.
I didn't complain about the cost public sector pensions at all, only about the seeming lack of awareness about how much these things cost, whether that be through a final salary scheme or a private pension, and an apparent avoidance by unions to declare the value of the total benefits package. Is it not true that people in the private sector who have diligently saved into their pensions over a working lifetime have also had the goalposts moved? I'm pretty certain that what they were told to expect 10 years ago and what they can expect now are radically different figures, even though they may have been saving exactly the same amount. The two situations don't seem so far apart then. As it happens, I have fairly strong opinions that as a country as a whole we do not save enough towards our retirement, whether we are compelled to or make our own arrangements and one of the biggest reasons for this is a general lack of understanding of how much it costs to retire. This is a much longer discussion than the point I was trying to make, however, which is the lack of concise and accurate information that is put into the public area when strikes happen. wilko2014
  • Score: 0

4:14pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Chriswood says...

bmthlad wrote:
Did not these workers strike-ing know the pay and conditions when they took the jobs? Get back to work. What are the teachers after, more holidays???
I agree. And what about those firefighters whining about having to work until they're 60. They're in a cushy number and often have second jobs. They should lay off the chips and get fit.
[quote][p][bold]bmthlad[/bold] wrote: Did not these workers strike-ing know the pay and conditions when they took the jobs? Get back to work. What are the teachers after, more holidays???[/p][/quote]I agree. And what about those firefighters whining about having to work until they're 60. They're in a cushy number and often have second jobs. They should lay off the chips and get fit. Chriswood
  • Score: 0

4:29pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Baysider says...

dorsetgills wrote:
Baysider wrote:
dorsetgills wrote:
Thank you teachers if you want a better pension go find it and pay and from your own wages like me and million others you do get paid £30,000 plus a year £10,000 more than I do and I never strike and moan about conditions blah, blah, blah just do your job
Alternatively if you think it's such a cushy deal, spend several years of your life training to be a teacher and hop on board the gravy train...
I've got family and friends that are teachers and never hear them moan one bit, only about the strikes.
You can big your part up all you like but the same happens to people in all sorts of jobs. I haven't had a pay rise in 4yrs due to economy but when it does come it will be great yet I'm not complaining about it!
...you say...moaning about about the very same thing. I repeat then if it's such a great job why don't you do it?
[quote][p][bold]dorsetgills[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Baysider[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]dorsetgills[/bold] wrote: Thank you teachers if you want a better pension go find it and pay and from your own wages like me and million others you do get paid £30,000 plus a year £10,000 more than I do and I never strike and moan about conditions blah, blah, blah just do your job[/p][/quote]Alternatively if you think it's such a cushy deal, spend several years of your life training to be a teacher and hop on board the gravy train...[/p][/quote]I've got family and friends that are teachers and never hear them moan one bit, only about the strikes. You can big your part up all you like but the same happens to people in all sorts of jobs. I haven't had a pay rise in 4yrs due to economy but when it does come it will be great yet I'm not complaining about it![/p][/quote]...you say...moaning about about the very same thing. I repeat then if it's such a great job why don't you do it? Baysider
  • Score: 3

4:39pm Thu 10 Jul 14

rubberbandman5 says...

So we have an opinion poll that shows overwhelming support for strike action. The only problem is that most of us were not at home and able to take part in the poll. Lets have one now-say 6pm and see the smile slip from the faces of those who took part with unfair terms and conditions that favoured the trade union layabouts sitting at home greedily rubbing their grasping little hands together.
So we have an opinion poll that shows overwhelming support for strike action. The only problem is that most of us were not at home and able to take part in the poll. Lets have one now-say 6pm and see the smile slip from the faces of those who took part with unfair terms and conditions that favoured the trade union layabouts sitting at home greedily rubbing their grasping little hands together. rubberbandman5
  • Score: 4

4:52pm Thu 10 Jul 14

purpleflower57 says...

What about NHS staff? The vast majority of them didn't even get a 1% pay increase this year, the government denied them a pay increase. Imagine the uproar if NHS staff decided to strike
What about NHS staff? The vast majority of them didn't even get a 1% pay increase this year, the government denied them a pay increase. Imagine the uproar if NHS staff decided to strike purpleflower57
  • Score: 8

5:38pm Thu 10 Jul 14

cromwell9 says...

boardsandphotos wrote:
Ziggy starburst wrote:
Bla bla it's not fair, I don't get a pension. I'm in the real world. I can't afford to heat my home so why should they. I haven't had a holiday for 3 years and I heard that teachers have 40 holidays a year. I haven't got a fire engine, why should they have a fire engine. That's not fair. I'm happy to blindly join in the race to the bottom by relating everything to myself. There IS enough money to go round, it's just that it isn't being shared equally. It's all being passed upward to the rich right under your noses and YOURE supporting THAT instead of teachers, firemen etc. If you can't be bothered to support them (and each other) you deserve your zero hours contracts that you are either on now or will be in a few years time. You've only got yourselves to blame. I support anyone who is giving up a days pay for decent working conditions. It says something of the state of this country that there is a debate on a living wage. There shouldn't even be a debate. People should have enough money live on, especially when they are employed by billion £ tax dodging profit making corporations, who are the ones ripping the country apart. And no, I'm not a public sector striker before the daily mail brigade wade in.
Great Comment, well said. Thumbs Up!
You strike in the Private Secter mate,You will be shown the door.
Next day a Pole will take your job .and be happy to take less wages.
Thats what you get for Voting Lib Dem /Labour.The EU.
Unless you are a public secter worker.
Above average salery +
A fantastic sick pay scheme ,and a Pention that we in the private secter can only dream of,..
Having said that,.I have great respect for the emergency services,. The Firebrigade have a just cause for protest,.I cant see a 60 yr old man having the fitness etc to do the job.
Care workers also need a big increase in their salery.They do a fantastic job,
The rest of them have a good salary etc .So get back to work.
I know all you public secter workers vote Lib Dem /Labour.because you think they have your interests at heart,
Well think on this .Those two partys want to stay in the EU,.
That means YOUR JOB will be at great risk ,for any EU worker to apply and take.Think About it ,before you put your X next May.
[quote][p][bold]boardsandphotos[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ziggy starburst[/bold] wrote: Bla bla it's not fair, I don't get a pension. I'm in the real world. I can't afford to heat my home so why should they. I haven't had a holiday for 3 years and I heard that teachers have 40 holidays a year. I haven't got a fire engine, why should they have a fire engine. That's not fair. I'm happy to blindly join in the race to the bottom by relating everything to myself. There IS enough money to go round, it's just that it isn't being shared equally. It's all being passed upward to the rich right under your noses and YOURE supporting THAT instead of teachers, firemen etc. If you can't be bothered to support them (and each other) you deserve your zero hours contracts that you are either on now or will be in a few years time. You've only got yourselves to blame. I support anyone who is giving up a days pay for decent working conditions. It says something of the state of this country that there is a debate on a living wage. There shouldn't even be a debate. People should have enough money live on, especially when they are employed by billion £ tax dodging profit making corporations, who are the ones ripping the country apart. And no, I'm not a public sector striker before the daily mail brigade wade in.[/p][/quote]Great Comment, well said. Thumbs Up![/p][/quote]You strike in the Private Secter mate,You will be shown the door. Next day a Pole will take your job .and be happy to take less wages. Thats what you get for Voting Lib Dem /Labour.The EU. Unless you are a public secter worker. Above average salery + A fantastic sick pay scheme ,and a Pention that we in the private secter can only dream of,.. Having said that,.I have great respect for the emergency services,. The Firebrigade have a just cause for protest,.I cant see a 60 yr old man having the fitness etc to do the job. Care workers also need a big increase in their salery.They do a fantastic job, The rest of them have a good salary etc .So get back to work. I know all you public secter workers vote Lib Dem /Labour.because you think they have your interests at heart, Well think on this .Those two partys want to stay in the EU,. That means YOUR JOB will be at great risk ,for any EU worker to apply and take.Think About it ,before you put your X next May. cromwell9
  • Score: 4

5:44pm Thu 10 Jul 14

cromwell9 says...

Chris60 wrote:
bmthlad wrote:
Did not these workers strike-ing know the pay and conditions when they took the jobs? Get back to work. What are the teachers after, more holidays???
Pay and conditions have changed/are changing (pay by freeze and pensions by reducing benefits). Yes, I know public service pensions are better than the vast majority of private sector ones (I work in the private sector) but that was what they were promised when they took the jobs and in any event, I don't subscribe to "If I can't have it neither should anybody else". I assume from your comment that your employer can do whatever they like with your pay and conditions and you'd smile as you licked their .....
The problem is mate .The PRIVATE secter is paying for your gold plated pention .
For every £ 1 you put in .You take £4 out,
We have a gun to our heads.25% of all councli tax goes to your pention pot .
So shut up and be gratefull.before you loose it.
[quote][p][bold]Chris60[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bmthlad[/bold] wrote: Did not these workers strike-ing know the pay and conditions when they took the jobs? Get back to work. What are the teachers after, more holidays???[/p][/quote]Pay and conditions have changed/are changing (pay by freeze and pensions by reducing benefits). Yes, I know public service pensions are better than the vast majority of private sector ones (I work in the private sector) but that was what they were promised when they took the jobs and in any event, I don't subscribe to "If I can't have it neither should anybody else". I assume from your comment that your employer can do whatever they like with your pay and conditions and you'd smile as you licked their .....[/p][/quote]The problem is mate .The PRIVATE secter is paying for your gold plated pention . For every £ 1 you put in .You take £4 out, We have a gun to our heads.25% of all councli tax goes to your pention pot . So shut up and be gratefull.before you loose it. cromwell9
  • Score: 0

5:48pm Thu 10 Jul 14

cromwell9 says...

Chris60 wrote:
wilko2014 wrote:
Chris60 wrote:
bmthlad wrote:
Did not these workers strike-ing know the pay and conditions when they took the jobs? Get back to work. What are the teachers after, more holidays???
Pay and conditions have changed/are changing (pay by freeze and pensions by reducing benefits). Yes, I know public service pensions are better than the vast majority of private sector ones (I work in the private sector) but that was what they were promised when they took the jobs and in any event, I don't subscribe to "If I can't have it neither should anybody else". I assume from your comment that your employer can do whatever they like with your pay and conditions and you'd smile as you licked their .....
I can understand people protesting to keep their pay and benefits unchanged, particularly when they were better in the past. However, to refuse to acknowledge how our economy and people's life expectancies have changed and that older remuneration packages may not be affordable does nothing to change the finances of the situation.

Public sector pay is still on par with the private sector, if not slightly better, for comparative occupations. As for the benefits, and pensions in particular, there is an astonishing lack of awareness of the total value of those available to the public sector, even after the proposed changes come into effect. Purely as an example, a teacher retiring with, say, 20 years' service and a career average salary of £35,000 would be entitled to an annual pension of just over £12,000. This pension will increase with inflation every year and also be paid to their husband or wife if the pensioner dies first. A seemingly modest amount of income, perhaps, and quite average earnings figures, but this is where the reality check comes in. For a person who has had to save for their pension outside of a public sector scheme, they would need a pension fund in excess of £400,000 to get an equivalent income when they retire and the income won't be guaranteed, but dependent on what rates they can get at the time.
I'm not saying that public sector workers don't deserve good quality pensions as part of their remuneration packages - I don't know them, I don't know what jobs they do or how hard they work. The unions, however, never seem to actually quantify the value of benefits and pensions in particular. If they did, perhaps there would be some recognition that what the unions are calling for is way in excess of anything equivalent in the private sector and only fuels the 'us and them' arguments, but not necessarily in the way they intend.
I know the value of a defined benefit pension (I work in the industry and your figure is pretty much spot on for the cost of an inflation proofed pension). However, I don't believe the "cure" for our ills is to reduce everybody's pension (or pay) to the lowest level. Better to try and get everybody a decent pension than reduce the relatively few good ones. That may mean saving more, spending less and/or having less pay in return for a higher pension (which is what the public sector were told was the deal when they took their jobs) To fund public sector pensions it may even mean paying more tax (how unthinkable). Remember everybody who doesn't have a decent pension is potentially going to cost us all more in required support when they are retired. For those complaining public sector pay is so good the answer is simple; get a job there (there will be something that nearly every private sector worker could do in the public sector). Perhaps some would like to try the pay of somebody like my daughter who regularly gets a punch or her hair pulled and has to clean up things most of us would be horrified at and all for £13k a year but does the job because she feels it's worthwhile. Even then, she is lucky because she has a good degree and will not be doing that job for many years. Some people have that sort of job and pay for life. Finally, when moaning about the costs (£400,000?) of a public sector pension and that those losing some of this benefit have the temerity to go on strike, try flipping that around and asking how you'd feel if you were told what you'd get when you started a job and were then told that was going to reduce by up to £400,000.
I am crying my eyes out .
[quote][p][bold]Chris60[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]wilko2014[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Chris60[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]bmthlad[/bold] wrote: Did not these workers strike-ing know the pay and conditions when they took the jobs? Get back to work. What are the teachers after, more holidays???[/p][/quote]Pay and conditions have changed/are changing (pay by freeze and pensions by reducing benefits). Yes, I know public service pensions are better than the vast majority of private sector ones (I work in the private sector) but that was what they were promised when they took the jobs and in any event, I don't subscribe to "If I can't have it neither should anybody else". I assume from your comment that your employer can do whatever they like with your pay and conditions and you'd smile as you licked their .....[/p][/quote]I can understand people protesting to keep their pay and benefits unchanged, particularly when they were better in the past. However, to refuse to acknowledge how our economy and people's life expectancies have changed and that older remuneration packages may not be affordable does nothing to change the finances of the situation. Public sector pay is still on par with the private sector, if not slightly better, for comparative occupations. As for the benefits, and pensions in particular, there is an astonishing lack of awareness of the total value of those available to the public sector, even after the proposed changes come into effect. Purely as an example, a teacher retiring with, say, 20 years' service and a career average salary of £35,000 would be entitled to an annual pension of just over £12,000. This pension will increase with inflation every year and also be paid to their husband or wife if the pensioner dies first. A seemingly modest amount of income, perhaps, and quite average earnings figures, but this is where the reality check comes in. For a person who has had to save for their pension outside of a public sector scheme, they would need a pension fund in excess of £400,000 to get an equivalent income when they retire and the income won't be guaranteed, but dependent on what rates they can get at the time. I'm not saying that public sector workers don't deserve good quality pensions as part of their remuneration packages - I don't know them, I don't know what jobs they do or how hard they work. The unions, however, never seem to actually quantify the value of benefits and pensions in particular. If they did, perhaps there would be some recognition that what the unions are calling for is way in excess of anything equivalent in the private sector and only fuels the 'us and them' arguments, but not necessarily in the way they intend.[/p][/quote]I know the value of a defined benefit pension (I work in the industry and your figure is pretty much spot on for the cost of an inflation proofed pension). However, I don't believe the "cure" for our ills is to reduce everybody's pension (or pay) to the lowest level. Better to try and get everybody a decent pension than reduce the relatively few good ones. That may mean saving more, spending less and/or having less pay in return for a higher pension (which is what the public sector were told was the deal when they took their jobs) To fund public sector pensions it may even mean paying more tax (how unthinkable). Remember everybody who doesn't have a decent pension is potentially going to cost us all more in required support when they are retired. For those complaining public sector pay is so good the answer is simple; get a job there (there will be something that nearly every private sector worker could do in the public sector). Perhaps some would like to try the pay of somebody like my daughter who regularly gets a punch or her hair pulled and has to clean up things most of us would be horrified at and all for £13k a year but does the job because she feels it's worthwhile. Even then, she is lucky because she has a good degree and will not be doing that job for many years. Some people have that sort of job and pay for life. Finally, when moaning about the costs (£400,000?) of a public sector pension and that those losing some of this benefit have the temerity to go on strike, try flipping that around and asking how you'd feel if you were told what you'd get when you started a job and were then told that was going to reduce by up to £400,000.[/p][/quote]I am crying my eyes out . cromwell9
  • Score: -2

5:51pm Thu 10 Jul 14

cromwell9 says...

uvox44 wrote:
Strange how when bankers and directors pay is discussed the Govt always says they need to have huge rewards to get the top people ( and if the people that almost bankrupted us by reckless speculating , tacticly condoned by the Govt - Labour and Tory- are the "top" people God help us!),yet the people who do the really necessary and dirty work are told they need to work for a pittance to keep their jobs! And when they are forced to strike the same Govt then calls them irresponsible for affecting the public - so they should work for low wages out of a sense of civic responsibility but the "captains of industry" should be left to risk our money ( bank bail outs remember- come on people it wasn't that long ago!) and need to make huge profits else they'll (supposedly) go abroad ? The Capitalist ideology has it all sewn up! But the real sad trick they play is to turn worker against worker (self-employed against council, private against public ) whilst laughing all the way to the banks!
You Vote LIB DEM /LAbour Back in .You will be stuck in the EU ,with open door immigration.
That will mean in less than 25yrs .YOU will have to where a Hishap,or a Burker.
[quote][p][bold]uvox44[/bold] wrote: Strange how when bankers and directors pay is discussed the Govt always says they need to have huge rewards to get the top people ( and if the people that almost bankrupted us by reckless speculating , tacticly condoned by the Govt - Labour and Tory- are the "top" people God help us!),yet the people who do the really necessary and dirty work are told they need to work for a pittance to keep their jobs! And when they are forced to strike the same Govt then calls them irresponsible for affecting the public - so they should work for low wages out of a sense of civic responsibility but the "captains of industry" should be left to risk our money ( bank bail outs remember- come on people it wasn't that long ago!) and need to make huge profits else they'll (supposedly) go abroad ? The Capitalist ideology has it all sewn up! But the real sad trick they play is to turn worker against worker (self-employed against council, private against public ) whilst laughing all the way to the banks![/p][/quote]You Vote LIB DEM /LAbour Back in .You will be stuck in the EU ,with open door immigration. That will mean in less than 25yrs .YOU will have to where a Hishap,or a Burker. cromwell9
  • Score: 5

6:37pm Thu 10 Jul 14

dorsetgills says...

Baysider wrote:
dorsetgills wrote:
Baysider wrote:
dorsetgills wrote:
Thank you teachers if you want a better pension go find it and pay and from your own wages like me and million others you do get paid £30,000 plus a year £10,000 more than I do and I never strike and moan about conditions blah, blah, blah just do your job
Alternatively if you think it's such a cushy deal, spend several years of your life training to be a teacher and hop on board the gravy train...
I've got family and friends that are teachers and never hear them moan one bit, only about the strikes.
You can big your part up all you like but the same happens to people in all sorts of jobs. I haven't had a pay rise in 4yrs due to economy but when it does come it will be great yet I'm not complaining about it!
...you say...moaning about about the very same thing. I repeat then if it's such a great job why don't you do it?
Seeing as I already teach youngsters to play football several days a week plus giving up my Sunday for there matches !ALL FOR FREE!
Maybe I should rob the system then hold them to ransom
[quote][p][bold]Baysider[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]dorsetgills[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Baysider[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]dorsetgills[/bold] wrote: Thank you teachers if you want a better pension go find it and pay and from your own wages like me and million others you do get paid £30,000 plus a year £10,000 more than I do and I never strike and moan about conditions blah, blah, blah just do your job[/p][/quote]Alternatively if you think it's such a cushy deal, spend several years of your life training to be a teacher and hop on board the gravy train...[/p][/quote]I've got family and friends that are teachers and never hear them moan one bit, only about the strikes. You can big your part up all you like but the same happens to people in all sorts of jobs. I haven't had a pay rise in 4yrs due to economy but when it does come it will be great yet I'm not complaining about it![/p][/quote]...you say...moaning about about the very same thing. I repeat then if it's such a great job why don't you do it?[/p][/quote]Seeing as I already teach youngsters to play football several days a week plus giving up my Sunday for there matches !ALL FOR FREE! Maybe I should rob the system then hold them to ransom dorsetgills
  • Score: -5

6:55pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Turtlebay says...

They have jobs and aren't happy.

Here's an idea. If you don't like what is on offer, leave!
They have jobs and aren't happy. Here's an idea. If you don't like what is on offer, leave! Turtlebay
  • Score: -1

9:06pm Thu 10 Jul 14

scrumpyjack says...

BarrHumbug wrote:
I think the 8:36am comment above pretty much says it all. I think the Echo need to read it first though before saying the person is supporting the strike?
Spot on.
[quote][p][bold]BarrHumbug[/bold] wrote: I think the 8:36am comment above pretty much says it all. I think the Echo need to read it first though before saying the person is supporting the strike?[/p][/quote]Spot on. scrumpyjack
  • Score: -1

9:23pm Thu 10 Jul 14

Baysider says...

cromwell9 wrote:
uvox44 wrote:
Strange how when bankers and directors pay is discussed the Govt always says they need to have huge rewards to get the top people ( and if the people that almost bankrupted us by reckless speculating , tacticly condoned by the Govt - Labour and Tory- are the "top" people God help us!),yet the people who do the really necessary and dirty work are told they need to work for a pittance to keep their jobs! And when they are forced to strike the same Govt then calls them irresponsible for affecting the public - so they should work for low wages out of a sense of civic responsibility but the "captains of industry" should be left to risk our money ( bank bail outs remember- come on people it wasn't that long ago!) and need to make huge profits else they'll (supposedly) go abroad ? The Capitalist ideology has it all sewn up! But the real sad trick they play is to turn worker against worker (self-employed against council, private against public ) whilst laughing all the way to the banks!
You Vote LIB DEM /LAbour Back in .You will be stuck in the EU ,with open door immigration.
That will mean in less than 25yrs .YOU will have to where a Hishap,or a Burker.
Keep it up cromwell you are a fantastic advert for UKIP.
[quote][p][bold]cromwell9[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]uvox44[/bold] wrote: Strange how when bankers and directors pay is discussed the Govt always says they need to have huge rewards to get the top people ( and if the people that almost bankrupted us by reckless speculating , tacticly condoned by the Govt - Labour and Tory- are the "top" people God help us!),yet the people who do the really necessary and dirty work are told they need to work for a pittance to keep their jobs! And when they are forced to strike the same Govt then calls them irresponsible for affecting the public - so they should work for low wages out of a sense of civic responsibility but the "captains of industry" should be left to risk our money ( bank bail outs remember- come on people it wasn't that long ago!) and need to make huge profits else they'll (supposedly) go abroad ? The Capitalist ideology has it all sewn up! But the real sad trick they play is to turn worker against worker (self-employed against council, private against public ) whilst laughing all the way to the banks![/p][/quote]You Vote LIB DEM /LAbour Back in .You will be stuck in the EU ,with open door immigration. That will mean in less than 25yrs .YOU will have to where a Hishap,or a Burker.[/p][/quote]Keep it up cromwell you are a fantastic advert for UKIP. Baysider
  • Score: 7

10:03pm Thu 10 Jul 14

boardsandphotos says...

cromwell9 wrote:
boardsandphotos wrote:
Ziggy starburst wrote:
Bla bla it's not fair, I don't get a pension. I'm in the real world. I can't afford to heat my home so why should they. I haven't had a holiday for 3 years and I heard that teachers have 40 holidays a year. I haven't got a fire engine, why should they have a fire engine. That's not fair. I'm happy to blindly join in the race to the bottom by relating everything to myself. There IS enough money to go round, it's just that it isn't being shared equally. It's all being passed upward to the rich right under your noses and YOURE supporting THAT instead of teachers, firemen etc. If you can't be bothered to support them (and each other) you deserve your zero hours contracts that you are either on now or will be in a few years time. You've only got yourselves to blame. I support anyone who is giving up a days pay for decent working conditions. It says something of the state of this country that there is a debate on a living wage. There shouldn't even be a debate. People should have enough money live on, especially when they are employed by billion £ tax dodging profit making corporations, who are the ones ripping the country apart. And no, I'm not a public sector striker before the daily mail brigade wade in.
Great Comment, well said. Thumbs Up!
You strike in the Private Secter mate,You will be shown the door.
Next day a Pole will take your job .and be happy to take less wages.
Thats what you get for Voting Lib Dem /Labour.The EU.
Unless you are a public secter worker.
Above average salery +
A fantastic sick pay scheme ,and a Pention that we in the private secter can only dream of,..
Having said that,.I have great respect for the emergency services,. The Firebrigade have a just cause for protest,.I cant see a 60 yr old man having the fitness etc to do the job.
Care workers also need a big increase in their salery.They do a fantastic job,
The rest of them have a good salary etc .So get back to work.
I know all you public secter workers vote Lib Dem /Labour.because you think they have your interests at heart,
Well think on this .Those two partys want to stay in the EU,.
That means YOUR JOB will be at great risk ,for any EU worker to apply and take.Think About it ,before you put your X next May.
Well both Ziggy & I work in the Private Sector so I'm not sure who your comment is aimed at but it seems to me that too many people in the Private Sector would rather be the lowest common denominator and instead of doing something about their own conditions just choose to bash the public sector.

My job is not going to be given to a pole, or any of the other 30 or so nationalities I work with, even if I did decide to exercise my democratic right to strike. Additionally voting Labour or LibDem would probably make the recruitment aspects of my job rather difficult so that won't be happening either.
[quote][p][bold]cromwell9[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]boardsandphotos[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ziggy starburst[/bold] wrote: Bla bla it's not fair, I don't get a pension. I'm in the real world. I can't afford to heat my home so why should they. I haven't had a holiday for 3 years and I heard that teachers have 40 holidays a year. I haven't got a fire engine, why should they have a fire engine. That's not fair. I'm happy to blindly join in the race to the bottom by relating everything to myself. There IS enough money to go round, it's just that it isn't being shared equally. It's all being passed upward to the rich right under your noses and YOURE supporting THAT instead of teachers, firemen etc. If you can't be bothered to support them (and each other) you deserve your zero hours contracts that you are either on now or will be in a few years time. You've only got yourselves to blame. I support anyone who is giving up a days pay for decent working conditions. It says something of the state of this country that there is a debate on a living wage. There shouldn't even be a debate. People should have enough money live on, especially when they are employed by billion £ tax dodging profit making corporations, who are the ones ripping the country apart. And no, I'm not a public sector striker before the daily mail brigade wade in.[/p][/quote]Great Comment, well said. Thumbs Up![/p][/quote]You strike in the Private Secter mate,You will be shown the door. Next day a Pole will take your job .and be happy to take less wages. Thats what you get for Voting Lib Dem /Labour.The EU. Unless you are a public secter worker. Above average salery + A fantastic sick pay scheme ,and a Pention that we in the private secter can only dream of,.. Having said that,.I have great respect for the emergency services,. The Firebrigade have a just cause for protest,.I cant see a 60 yr old man having the fitness etc to do the job. Care workers also need a big increase in their salery.They do a fantastic job, The rest of them have a good salary etc .So get back to work. I know all you public secter workers vote Lib Dem /Labour.because you think they have your interests at heart, Well think on this .Those two partys want to stay in the EU,. That means YOUR JOB will be at great risk ,for any EU worker to apply and take.Think About it ,before you put your X next May.[/p][/quote]Well both Ziggy & I work in the Private Sector so I'm not sure who your comment is aimed at but it seems to me that too many people in the Private Sector would rather be the lowest common denominator and instead of doing something about their own conditions just choose to bash the public sector. My job is not going to be given to a pole, or any of the other 30 or so nationalities I work with, even if I did decide to exercise my democratic right to strike. Additionally voting Labour or LibDem would probably make the recruitment aspects of my job rather difficult so that won't be happening either. boardsandphotos
  • Score: 3

10:24am Fri 11 Jul 14

Marty Caine UKIP says...

So do all those who went out on strike actually feel like they achieved something yesterday? I am sure the unions will be overjoyed at fooling people to lose a days pay just so they can have the gratification of taking a pop at the government and I am sure the government are thinking so what.
So do all those who went out on strike actually feel like they achieved something yesterday? I am sure the unions will be overjoyed at fooling people to lose a days pay just so they can have the gratification of taking a pop at the government and I am sure the government are thinking so what. Marty Caine UKIP
  • Score: 0

10:42am Fri 11 Jul 14

spooki says...

I needed to use a library computer yesterday to print something out. Castlepoint was closed, Charminster was closed, yet Winton, Kinson and others were open. What's the point of that? Apart from stressing me out and having to trek over to Winton to print something. That hasn't made me any more sympathetic.
What if shop workers or bar/restaurant staff had a strike? What would people do then? I bet the people that were off yesterday weren't all standing around holding placards or signs, they were at shops or getting lunch.
I worked in the stockroom of a very popular shop and the pressure to get things done on time (impossible) were amazing yet we managed on a low hourly rate.
I needed to use a library computer yesterday to print something out. Castlepoint was closed, Charminster was closed, yet Winton, Kinson and others were open. What's the point of that? Apart from stressing me out and having to trek over to Winton to print something. That hasn't made me any more sympathetic. What if shop workers or bar/restaurant staff had a strike? What would people do then? I bet the people that were off yesterday weren't all standing around holding placards or signs, they were at shops or getting lunch. I worked in the stockroom of a very popular shop and the pressure to get things done on time (impossible) were amazing yet we managed on a low hourly rate. spooki
  • Score: 0
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