Dorset Police at 'tipping point' over savage cuts

First published in News

DORSET'S new Police and Crime Commissioner will be lobbying government to review budget cuts which he says has put the county at "tipping point".

The force has already made savings of £10 million and now has to make another £10 million before 2014/15.

It has been told it will have to find a further £3 million of savings and could be hit with even more cuts before 2018.

Speaking this morning Martyn Underhill said the force will now be looking to sell older police stations in the county, replacing them with police hubs and handing officers tablets so they can work out and about in the community.

He said: "These are dire times for Dorset and its residents. The potential of further cuts takes us to tipping point."

He will be writing to the Home Secretary and the Chancellor to inform them that further cuts in the coming years will "put public safety at risk".

See the Dorset Echo tomorrow for the full story.

Comments (22)

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11:36am Tue 18 Dec 12

cecilbdoomil says...

Have you stopped all equality and diversity training yet? No? if you have money for things like that then you obviously don't need it that badly? Anyway last times I have ever used them I realised that there isn't much point anyway. They are too crooked and biased.
Have you stopped all equality and diversity training yet? No? if you have money for things like that then you obviously don't need it that badly? Anyway last times I have ever used them I realised that there isn't much point anyway. They are too crooked and biased. cecilbdoomil
  • Score: 0

1:36pm Tue 18 Dec 12

cj07589 says...

Good point Cecil, if they removed the PC compliance & pandering to minorities crap and bothered to put boots on patrol it would surely help. Too many back office staff, pen pushers than bobbies on the beat actually solving crime and showing actual presence in our neighbourhoods. Not much point in reporting crime since so little effort is put into solving them.
Good point Cecil, if they removed the PC compliance & pandering to minorities crap and bothered to put boots on patrol it would surely help. Too many back office staff, pen pushers than bobbies on the beat actually solving crime and showing actual presence in our neighbourhoods. Not much point in reporting crime since so little effort is put into solving them. cj07589
  • Score: 0

2:10pm Tue 18 Dec 12

westendcat says...

Well said, Cecil and c. The police should stick with their core business, ie catching and preventing crime - all this nonsensical social engineering and being 'partners' and 'other agencies' is /has distracted the police from doing their real duties - or perhaps it's their excuse for not doing their real job properly.
The Police Commissioner is also a waste of time and adds more money to the police budget - if they are abolishing the old police authority, can they please set out in words of one syllable where the savings are being made. It seems to me it's just one bureaucratic layer being replaced by another - localism and you, the punter pays more.
Well said, Cecil and c. The police should stick with their core business, ie catching and preventing crime - all this nonsensical social engineering and being 'partners' and 'other agencies' is /has distracted the police from doing their real duties - or perhaps it's their excuse for not doing their real job properly. The Police Commissioner is also a waste of time and adds more money to the police budget - if they are abolishing the old police authority, can they please set out in words of one syllable where the savings are being made. It seems to me it's just one bureaucratic layer being replaced by another - localism and you, the punter pays more. westendcat
  • Score: 0

2:53pm Tue 18 Dec 12

212 dorset says...

cecilbdoomil wrote:
Have you stopped all equality and diversity training yet? No? if you have money for things like that then you obviously don't need it that badly? Anyway last times I have ever used them I realised that there isn't much point anyway. They are too crooked and biased.
Would you please support your statement with evidence please of crooked and biased by the Police.
[quote][p][bold]cecilbdoomil[/bold] wrote: Have you stopped all equality and diversity training yet? No? if you have money for things like that then you obviously don't need it that badly? Anyway last times I have ever used them I realised that there isn't much point anyway. They are too crooked and biased.[/p][/quote]Would you please support your statement with evidence please of crooked and biased by the Police. 212 dorset
  • Score: 0

4:30pm Tue 18 Dec 12

stench says...

5 comments, 5 commentors, 3 people...

hahahahaha, so funny!
5 comments, 5 commentors, 3 people... hahahahaha, so funny! stench
  • Score: 0

8:30pm Tue 18 Dec 12

RunRabbit says...

cecilbdoomil wrote:
Have you stopped all equality and diversity training yet? No? if you have money for things like that then you obviously don't need it that badly? Anyway last times I have ever used them I realised that there isn't much point anyway. They are too crooked and biased.
I'd have thought if anybody could benefit from training that discusses the potential pitfalls of a lack of respecting differences, particularly in diverse cultures, it would be the police service. Not that cutting this training alone is going to result in savings of 10 million pounds in one constabulary.
[quote][p][bold]cecilbdoomil[/bold] wrote: Have you stopped all equality and diversity training yet? No? if you have money for things like that then you obviously don't need it that badly? Anyway last times I have ever used them I realised that there isn't much point anyway. They are too crooked and biased.[/p][/quote]I'd have thought if anybody could benefit from training that discusses the potential pitfalls of a lack of respecting differences, particularly in diverse cultures, it would be the police service. Not that cutting this training alone is going to result in savings of 10 million pounds in one constabulary. RunRabbit
  • Score: 0

8:37pm Tue 18 Dec 12

RunRabbit says...

cj07589 wrote:
Good point Cecil, if they removed the PC compliance & pandering to minorities crap and bothered to put boots on patrol it would surely help. Too many back office staff, pen pushers than bobbies on the beat actually solving crime and showing actual presence in our neighbourhoods. Not much point in reporting crime since so little effort is put into solving them.
It is the pen-pushers that are in place to try to minimise the time required back at the station by the bobby on the beat. If you are calling for less paperwork, then I'd suggest that it is never likely to happen. Applying the law will always require a huge amount of evidence to confirm legislation has been adhered to; Legislation partly implemented to minimise the bias that a previous commentor refers to.
[quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: Good point Cecil, if they removed the PC compliance & pandering to minorities crap and bothered to put boots on patrol it would surely help. Too many back office staff, pen pushers than bobbies on the beat actually solving crime and showing actual presence in our neighbourhoods. Not much point in reporting crime since so little effort is put into solving them.[/p][/quote]It is the pen-pushers that are in place to try to minimise the time required back at the station by the bobby on the beat. If you are calling for less paperwork, then I'd suggest that it is never likely to happen. Applying the law will always require a huge amount of evidence to confirm legislation has been adhered to; Legislation partly implemented to minimise the bias that a previous commentor refers to. RunRabbit
  • Score: 0

9:10pm Tue 18 Dec 12

caz maz says...

"handing officers tablets so they can work out and about in the community. " LOL thats a good one, is that so they can be sold on EBay like the camaras and phones?
"handing officers tablets so they can work out and about in the community. " LOL thats a good one, is that so they can be sold on EBay like the camaras and phones? caz maz
  • Score: 0

9:26pm Tue 18 Dec 12

cj07589 says...

Completely disagree, my point exactly that there is far too much red-tape PC box ticking required for the stretched and finite resources available. If you live or work in a rural location youve go next to no chance youll get a quick response or follow up on a anti-social complaint let alone statisfactory enforcement. I gave up years ago when the realisation was reporting crime was more hassle than its worth. Sadly due to weak governance and even worse law making criminals in reality, have more rights than most not withstanding the madning abuse of the european human rights legisation which is another matter all together.
Completely disagree, my point exactly that there is far too much red-tape PC box ticking required for the stretched and finite resources available. If you live or work in a rural location youve go next to no chance youll get a quick response or follow up on a anti-social complaint let alone statisfactory enforcement. I gave up years ago when the realisation was reporting crime was more hassle than its worth. Sadly due to weak governance and even worse law making criminals in reality, have more rights than most not withstanding the madning abuse of the european human rights legisation which is another matter all together. cj07589
  • Score: 0

9:34pm Tue 18 Dec 12

cj07589 says...

RunRabbit wrote:
cj07589 wrote:
Good point Cecil, if they removed the PC compliance & pandering to minorities crap and bothered to put boots on patrol it would surely help. Too many back office staff, pen pushers than bobbies on the beat actually solving crime and showing actual presence in our neighbourhoods. Not much point in reporting crime since so little effort is put into solving them.
It is the pen-pushers that are in place to try to minimise the time required back at the station by the bobby on the beat. If you are calling for less paperwork, then I'd suggest that it is never likely to happen. Applying the law will always require a huge amount of evidence to confirm legislation has been adhered to; Legislation partly implemented to minimise the bias that a previous commentor refers to.
Completely disagree, my point exactly that there is far too much red-tape PC box ticking required for the stretched and finite resources available. If you live or work in a rural location youve go next to no chance youll get a quick response or follow up on a anti-social complaint let alone statisfactory enforcement. I gave up years ago when the realisation was that reporting crime in my neighbourhood was more hassle than it was worth. Sadly resultant of successive terms of poor liberal governance and law adjudication. Criminals today in reality have more rights than most not withstanding the crass abuse of the current european human rights legislation which is another matter all together. My hope is more police on the street becomes a focus rathe than form filling.
[quote][p][bold]RunRabbit[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: Good point Cecil, if they removed the PC compliance & pandering to minorities crap and bothered to put boots on patrol it would surely help. Too many back office staff, pen pushers than bobbies on the beat actually solving crime and showing actual presence in our neighbourhoods. Not much point in reporting crime since so little effort is put into solving them.[/p][/quote]It is the pen-pushers that are in place to try to minimise the time required back at the station by the bobby on the beat. If you are calling for less paperwork, then I'd suggest that it is never likely to happen. Applying the law will always require a huge amount of evidence to confirm legislation has been adhered to; Legislation partly implemented to minimise the bias that a previous commentor refers to.[/p][/quote]Completely disagree, my point exactly that there is far too much red-tape PC box ticking required for the stretched and finite resources available. If you live or work in a rural location youve go next to no chance youll get a quick response or follow up on a anti-social complaint let alone statisfactory enforcement. I gave up years ago when the realisation was that reporting crime in my neighbourhood was more hassle than it was worth. Sadly resultant of successive terms of poor liberal governance and law adjudication. Criminals today in reality have more rights than most not withstanding the crass abuse of the current european human rights legislation which is another matter all together. My hope is more police on the street becomes a focus rathe than form filling. cj07589
  • Score: 0

9:58pm Tue 18 Dec 12

RunRabbit says...

cj07589 wrote:
RunRabbit wrote:
cj07589 wrote: Good point Cecil, if they removed the PC compliance & pandering to minorities crap and bothered to put boots on patrol it would surely help. Too many back office staff, pen pushers than bobbies on the beat actually solving crime and showing actual presence in our neighbourhoods. Not much point in reporting crime since so little effort is put into solving them.
It is the pen-pushers that are in place to try to minimise the time required back at the station by the bobby on the beat. If you are calling for less paperwork, then I'd suggest that it is never likely to happen. Applying the law will always require a huge amount of evidence to confirm legislation has been adhered to; Legislation partly implemented to minimise the bias that a previous commentor refers to.
Completely disagree, my point exactly that there is far too much red-tape PC box ticking required for the stretched and finite resources available. If you live or work in a rural location youve go next to no chance youll get a quick response or follow up on a anti-social complaint let alone statisfactory enforcement. I gave up years ago when the realisation was that reporting crime in my neighbourhood was more hassle than it was worth. Sadly resultant of successive terms of poor liberal governance and law adjudication. Criminals today in reality have more rights than most not withstanding the crass abuse of the current european human rights legislation which is another matter all together. My hope is more police on the street becomes a focus rathe than form filling.
I see. I certainly agree I'd like to see more police on the street, however it can be realistically achieved.
[quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RunRabbit[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: Good point Cecil, if they removed the PC compliance & pandering to minorities crap and bothered to put boots on patrol it would surely help. Too many back office staff, pen pushers than bobbies on the beat actually solving crime and showing actual presence in our neighbourhoods. Not much point in reporting crime since so little effort is put into solving them.[/p][/quote]It is the pen-pushers that are in place to try to minimise the time required back at the station by the bobby on the beat. If you are calling for less paperwork, then I'd suggest that it is never likely to happen. Applying the law will always require a huge amount of evidence to confirm legislation has been adhered to; Legislation partly implemented to minimise the bias that a previous commentor refers to.[/p][/quote]Completely disagree, my point exactly that there is far too much red-tape PC box ticking required for the stretched and finite resources available. If you live or work in a rural location youve go next to no chance youll get a quick response or follow up on a anti-social complaint let alone statisfactory enforcement. I gave up years ago when the realisation was that reporting crime in my neighbourhood was more hassle than it was worth. Sadly resultant of successive terms of poor liberal governance and law adjudication. Criminals today in reality have more rights than most not withstanding the crass abuse of the current european human rights legislation which is another matter all together. My hope is more police on the street becomes a focus rathe than form filling.[/p][/quote]I see. I certainly agree I'd like to see more police on the street, however it can be realistically achieved. RunRabbit
  • Score: 0

10:34pm Tue 18 Dec 12

Leftrealist says...

Back office functions such as analysis help frontline staff prioritise efforts effectively and efficiently. That said, Dorset has seen crime reduce over the last 6 years which might suggest that we don't need as much frontline resource as we did 6 years ago. But it'll be a brave pcc to make that wash with his electorate, regardless if whether its the right thing to do
Back office functions such as analysis help frontline staff prioritise efforts effectively and efficiently. That said, Dorset has seen crime reduce over the last 6 years which might suggest that we don't need as much frontline resource as we did 6 years ago. But it'll be a brave pcc to make that wash with his electorate, regardless if whether its the right thing to do Leftrealist
  • Score: 0

10:39pm Tue 18 Dec 12

wurzelbasher says...

Maybe there's a chance here for the police to improve their image and stop leaning on motorists (and truck drivers) for an easy cop
Maybe there's a chance here for the police to improve their image and stop leaning on motorists (and truck drivers) for an easy cop wurzelbasher
  • Score: 0

11:21am Wed 19 Dec 12

cj07589 says...

Leftrealist wrote:
Back office functions such as analysis help frontline staff prioritise efforts effectively and efficiently. That said, Dorset has seen crime reduce over the last 6 years which might suggest that we don't need as much frontline resource as we did 6 years ago. But it'll be a brave pcc to make that wash with his electorate, regardless if whether its the right thing to do
This stat is based on reported crime only, it takes no account of people like me who have given up because they've been let down so frequently. Therefore read into it what you like but I am always suspicious of sweeping statistical statements because they are usually based on fiddled numbers to represent a completely different picture to the reality.
[quote][p][bold]Leftrealist[/bold] wrote: Back office functions such as analysis help frontline staff prioritise efforts effectively and efficiently. That said, Dorset has seen crime reduce over the last 6 years which might suggest that we don't need as much frontline resource as we did 6 years ago. But it'll be a brave pcc to make that wash with his electorate, regardless if whether its the right thing to do[/p][/quote]This stat is based on reported crime only, it takes no account of people like me who have given up because they've been let down so frequently. Therefore read into it what you like but I am always suspicious of sweeping statistical statements because they are usually based on fiddled numbers to represent a completely different picture to the reality. cj07589
  • Score: 0

11:27am Wed 19 Dec 12

cj07589 says...

wurzelbasher wrote:
Maybe there's a chance here for the police to improve their image and stop leaning on motorists (and truck drivers) for an easy cop
I won't hold my breathe as it is an easy win, easy fines and helps fudge the successful conviction ratio to sustain the statistical claims made.
Still doesn't stop the speed scamera van on the a37 from camouflaging itself into the hedgerow, silly old thought the high visibility markings were about proactive management making the roads safer.
[quote][p][bold]wurzelbasher[/bold] wrote: Maybe there's a chance here for the police to improve their image and stop leaning on motorists (and truck drivers) for an easy cop[/p][/quote]I won't hold my breathe as it is an easy win, easy fines and helps fudge the successful conviction ratio to sustain the statistical claims made. Still doesn't stop the speed scamera van on the a37 from camouflaging itself into the hedgerow, silly old thought the high visibility markings were about proactive management making the roads safer. cj07589
  • Score: 0

12:22pm Wed 19 Dec 12

Throckape says...

caz maz wrote:
"handing officers tablets so they can work out and about in the community. " LOL thats a good one, is that so they can be sold on EBay like the camaras and phones?
Prozac ?...
[quote][p][bold]caz maz[/bold] wrote: "handing officers tablets so they can work out and about in the community. " LOL thats a good one, is that so they can be sold on EBay like the camaras and phones?[/p][/quote]Prozac ?... Throckape
  • Score: 0

2:08pm Wed 19 Dec 12

212 dorset says...

Get police on the streets. No one cares who is in charge , as long as when the public call 999, the police attend and deal with the problem. It's not difficult or complicated. Get rid of all the pointless departments which are overstaffed and put them in a uniform on the street.
Get police on the streets. No one cares who is in charge , as long as when the public call 999, the police attend and deal with the problem. It's not difficult or complicated. Get rid of all the pointless departments which are overstaffed and put them in a uniform on the street. 212 dorset
  • Score: 0

6:43pm Wed 19 Dec 12

JamesYoung says...

cj07589 wrote:
Leftrealist wrote: Back office functions such as analysis help frontline staff prioritise efforts effectively and efficiently. That said, Dorset has seen crime reduce over the last 6 years which might suggest that we don't need as much frontline resource as we did 6 years ago. But it'll be a brave pcc to make that wash with his electorate, regardless if whether its the right thing to do
This stat is based on reported crime only, it takes no account of people like me who have given up because they've been let down so frequently. Therefore read into it what you like but I am always suspicious of sweeping statistical statements because they are usually based on fiddled numbers to represent a completely different picture to the reality.
It would be interesting to see the statistic for crime against property - this is probably the most reliable since if you want to make a house insurance claim you need a crime number. There is undoubtedly a lot of police work that is best done in an office rather than on the street.
I've never found the police to be biased or corrupt (apart from the traffic section who have their own special version of the Highway Code!) and their reluctance to attend crime is I suspect more to do with red tape.
[quote][p][bold]cj07589[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Leftrealist[/bold] wrote: Back office functions such as analysis help frontline staff prioritise efforts effectively and efficiently. That said, Dorset has seen crime reduce over the last 6 years which might suggest that we don't need as much frontline resource as we did 6 years ago. But it'll be a brave pcc to make that wash with his electorate, regardless if whether its the right thing to do[/p][/quote]This stat is based on reported crime only, it takes no account of people like me who have given up because they've been let down so frequently. Therefore read into it what you like but I am always suspicious of sweeping statistical statements because they are usually based on fiddled numbers to represent a completely different picture to the reality.[/p][/quote]It would be interesting to see the statistic for crime against property - this is probably the most reliable since if you want to make a house insurance claim you need a crime number. There is undoubtedly a lot of police work that is best done in an office rather than on the street. I've never found the police to be biased or corrupt (apart from the traffic section who have their own special version of the Highway Code!) and their reluctance to attend crime is I suspect more to do with red tape. JamesYoung
  • Score: 0

6:49pm Wed 19 Dec 12

JamesYoung says...

RunRabbit wrote:
cecilbdoomil wrote: Have you stopped all equality and diversity training yet? No? if you have money for things like that then you obviously don't need it that badly? Anyway last times I have ever used them I realised that there isn't much point anyway. They are too crooked and biased.
I'd have thought if anybody could benefit from training that discusses the potential pitfalls of a lack of respecting differences, particularly in diverse cultures, it would be the police service. Not that cutting this training alone is going to result in savings of 10 million pounds in one constabulary.
It's an interesting point you make but I do think Cecil is right. We are one people living in one country under one law. Is it not about time that people moving here respected this and not the other way around? Is it not their duty to learn and consider whether they can live with this before moving here? Before I get hit with the "R" word, consider the economic implications which affect everything from school design to hospital translation services. Instead, we **** foot around the issue and as a consequence certain groups (some sections of Islam, the traveller community) condemn their children to unfulfilled lives and their women to healthcare deprivation. These decisions have a social and economic cost to us all, including to those from the groups affected.
[quote][p][bold]RunRabbit[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cecilbdoomil[/bold] wrote: Have you stopped all equality and diversity training yet? No? if you have money for things like that then you obviously don't need it that badly? Anyway last times I have ever used them I realised that there isn't much point anyway. They are too crooked and biased.[/p][/quote]I'd have thought if anybody could benefit from training that discusses the potential pitfalls of a lack of respecting differences, particularly in diverse cultures, it would be the police service. Not that cutting this training alone is going to result in savings of 10 million pounds in one constabulary.[/p][/quote]It's an interesting point you make but I do think Cecil is right. We are one people living in one country under one law. Is it not about time that people moving here respected this and not the other way around? Is it not their duty to learn and consider whether they can live with this before moving here? Before I get hit with the "R" word, consider the economic implications which affect everything from school design to hospital translation services. Instead, we **** foot around the issue and as a consequence certain groups (some sections of Islam, the traveller community) condemn their children to unfulfilled lives and their women to healthcare deprivation. These decisions have a social and economic cost to us all, including to those from the groups affected. JamesYoung
  • Score: 0

6:57pm Wed 19 Dec 12

JamesYoung says...

JamesYoung wrote:
RunRabbit wrote:
cecilbdoomil wrote: Have you stopped all equality and diversity training yet? No? if you have money for things like that then you obviously don't need it that badly? Anyway last times I have ever used them I realised that there isn't much point anyway. They are too crooked and biased.
I'd have thought if anybody could benefit from training that discusses the potential pitfalls of a lack of respecting differences, particularly in diverse cultures, it would be the police service. Not that cutting this training alone is going to result in savings of 10 million pounds in one constabulary.
It's an interesting point you make but I do think Cecil is right. We are one people living in one country under one law. Is it not about time that people moving here respected this and not the other way around? Is it not their duty to learn and consider whether they can live with this before moving here? Before I get hit with the "R" word, consider the economic implications which affect everything from school design to hospital translation services. Instead, we **** foot around the issue and as a consequence certain groups (some sections of Islam, the traveller community) condemn their children to unfulfilled lives and their women to healthcare deprivation. These decisions have a social and economic cost to us all, including to those from the groups affected.
"P ussyfoot"
[quote][p][bold]JamesYoung[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RunRabbit[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]cecilbdoomil[/bold] wrote: Have you stopped all equality and diversity training yet? No? if you have money for things like that then you obviously don't need it that badly? Anyway last times I have ever used them I realised that there isn't much point anyway. They are too crooked and biased.[/p][/quote]I'd have thought if anybody could benefit from training that discusses the potential pitfalls of a lack of respecting differences, particularly in diverse cultures, it would be the police service. Not that cutting this training alone is going to result in savings of 10 million pounds in one constabulary.[/p][/quote]It's an interesting point you make but I do think Cecil is right. We are one people living in one country under one law. Is it not about time that people moving here respected this and not the other way around? Is it not their duty to learn and consider whether they can live with this before moving here? Before I get hit with the "R" word, consider the economic implications which affect everything from school design to hospital translation services. Instead, we **** foot around the issue and as a consequence certain groups (some sections of Islam, the traveller community) condemn their children to unfulfilled lives and their women to healthcare deprivation. These decisions have a social and economic cost to us all, including to those from the groups affected.[/p][/quote]"P ussyfoot" JamesYoung
  • Score: 0

9:27pm Sun 23 Dec 12

nystrom86 says...

Just wondered about the "new police" station on the Dorchester Road (now shut) which was built next door to the old one which is now demolished. Seems to me that they wasted a lot of money in the past building stuff they didn't need. Thinking back to old days I remember policeman driving Morris Minors now their driving the latest top model BMW- just to attend a routine enquiry.
Just wondered about the "new police" station on the Dorchester Road (now shut) which was built next door to the old one which is now demolished. Seems to me that they wasted a lot of money in the past building stuff they didn't need. Thinking back to old days I remember policeman driving Morris Minors now their driving the latest top model BMW- just to attend a routine enquiry. nystrom86
  • Score: 0

9:47pm Sun 23 Dec 12

JamesYoung says...

nystrom86 wrote:
Just wondered about the "new police" station on the Dorchester Road (now shut) which was built next door to the old one which is now demolished. Seems to me that they wasted a lot of money in the past building stuff they didn't need. Thinking back to old days I remember policeman driving Morris Minors now their driving the latest top model BMW- just to attend a routine enquiry.
To be fair, it's only the traffic and what I call the SWAT (the ones that dress in combat boots and dark clothes) that use the fast cars. I think the Ford Focus is probably the equivalent of the Morris Minor.
[quote][p][bold]nystrom86[/bold] wrote: Just wondered about the "new police" station on the Dorchester Road (now shut) which was built next door to the old one which is now demolished. Seems to me that they wasted a lot of money in the past building stuff they didn't need. Thinking back to old days I remember policeman driving Morris Minors now their driving the latest top model BMW- just to attend a routine enquiry.[/p][/quote]To be fair, it's only the traffic and what I call the SWAT (the ones that dress in combat boots and dark clothes) that use the fast cars. I think the Ford Focus is probably the equivalent of the Morris Minor. JamesYoung
  • Score: 0

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