AFC Bournemouth: Cherries hit by late strike at the Valley

Bournemouth Echo: BOSS: Eddie Howe BOSS: Eddie Howe

IT was billed as a fixture about one Frenchman.

The script seemed written that ex-Charlton favourite Yann Kermorgant would come back to haunt his former club at the Valley tonight, but in the event it was his fellow countryman that stole the show.

Centre-half Dorian Dervite, who became close friends with Kermorgant following the former’s arrival under Chris Powell in August 2012, proved the Addicks’ unlikely hero as he ended Cherries’ four-game unbeaten run in dramatic style.

Having already dealt with the threat of second-half substitute Kermorgant, Dervite strode forward to head Johnnie Jackson’s corner powerfully beyond Lee Camp in the second minute of added time.

It was a huge shot in the arm for the hosts, unbeaten in the three-game reign of new boss Jose Riga, but for the visitors it ended a run of four clean sheets and more importantly, dealt a further blow to their slender play-off hopes.

Cherries boss Eddie Howe made two changes to his starting line-up, with Ryan Fraser replacing Matt Ritchie on the right wing, while Marc Pugh came in for Mohamed Coulibaly on the opposite flank.

Kermorgant was named on the bench against the club he departed for a fee of £400,000 in January, while Ritchie was out of the squad altogether and there was no place for Brett Pitman.

Defender Elliott Ward - who last featured on February 1 - returned from a knee injury to take his place amongst the substitutes.

Pugh signalled Cherries’ positive intentions inside the opening 30 seconds when he let fly with a right-footed effort that zipped high and wide, before Steve Cook brought the first save out of Ben Hamer.

A training ground move so nearly paid off as Ian Harte’s low flag kick was neatly left by Harry Arter, only for the unmarked Lewis Grabban to blaze over following an untimely bobble.

It took the Addicks 25 minutes to force a meaningful effort at goal, with winger Danny Green’s crisp daisy-cutter being gathered at the second attempt by Camp.

That effort seemed to galvanise the hosts and nine minutes before the break, Dervite climbed high to nod wide of the left upright from skipper Jackson’s deep corner.

Cherries nearly fell behind in the 39th minute, as Green swung in a right-flank delivery that smacked off the outside of Camp’s near post.

Jon Obika, only signed on loan from Tottenham on Monday, was thrown on for the limping Callum Harriott four minutes before the break and immediately fired down the throat of Camp on the turn.

Following the restart, Charlton midfielder Diego Poyet contorted his body superbly to scoop a half-volley goalwards, but the ball skimmed the top of the net.

Kermorgant entered the fray soon after Cherries surpassed the seven-hour shutout mark and then Pugh got slightly too much elevation on an optimistic effort that cleared the crossbar.

Harte’s free kick from the corner of the box suffered the same fate, minutes before substitute Tokelo Rantie, a willing worker after coming on, tried his luck against Hamer.

Cousins was guilty of shanking horribly off-target when teed up by Obika and it seemed as if the game was destined to end 0-0 as Camp saved superbly from Simon Church one-on-one, before scooping up from Jackson on the rebound.

Adam Smith saw his first Cherries action after climbing off the bench, but after Poyet and Jackson both went close, Dervite nodded the winner.

The defender rose superbly to meet Jackson’s delivery and Camp was helpless to stop the downward effort.

Comments (43)

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10:42pm Tue 18 Mar 14

AFCPaul says...

Definitely need 4-4-2, but at least still in good position in league! :)
Definitely need 4-4-2, but at least still in good position in league! :) AFCPaul
  • Score: 8

10:48pm Tue 18 Mar 14

AFCBade says...

Disappointing tonight. We seemed to lose the initiative in the second half, with rather predictable play. Three points dropped tonight. We have had a great season but hopefully no one will talk about play offs again this season
Disappointing tonight. We seemed to lose the initiative in the second half, with rather predictable play. Three points dropped tonight. We have had a great season but hopefully no one will talk about play offs again this season AFCBade
  • Score: 14

11:56pm Tue 18 Mar 14

YafcbY says...

Disappointing performance tonight. Our passing, technique, tackling, is far superior to Charlton. However our movement was bland. Our forwards played with their backs to goal. And Charlton defended as a solid compressed unit. At all times we were denied any space to play through balls, but we just didn't help ourselves.

Still on the bright side we're still mid table!!!

On my way home on the tube I managed to insult many Chelsea supporters. Being the only Bournemouth London supporter, very loudly to my friend I mentioned how rare it was to see any Chelsea supporters in London. OOOOO bad idea.... turned out there was a 15 on the same carriage!!!
Disappointing performance tonight. Our passing, technique, tackling, is far superior to Charlton. However our movement was bland. Our forwards played with their backs to goal. And Charlton defended as a solid compressed unit. At all times we were denied any space to play through balls, but we just didn't help ourselves. Still on the bright side we're still mid table!!! On my way home on the tube I managed to insult many Chelsea supporters. Being the only Bournemouth London supporter, very loudly to my friend I mentioned how rare it was to see any Chelsea supporters in London. OOOOO bad idea.... turned out there was a 15 on the same carriage!!! YafcbY
  • Score: 9

12:30am Wed 19 Mar 14

RED LETTER DAY says...

ITS the same old problem, . . . we just can not find the back of the net. . . . INSTEAD of messing Pitman about we need to get him up to full fitness and stick him up front for the rest of the season. . . . He needs a proper run in the team until the end of this present campaign.
ITS the same old problem, . . . we just can not find the back of the net. . . . INSTEAD of messing Pitman about we need to get him up to full fitness and stick him up front for the rest of the season. . . . He needs a proper run in the team until the end of this present campaign. RED LETTER DAY
  • Score: 13

6:23am Wed 19 Mar 14

TedMacsCherryPants says...

Disappointing outcome, we seemed to lack a bit of fizz, was it because Ritchie was out or just tiredness?? Credit to Charlton they looked a reasonable team and mugged us at the end, I think 0-0 would have been a fair result. It's s tough run of fixtures during this period and we seem to be running out of steam, hope we can crank it back up for the next two games.

No away attendance figure on AFCB site so got it from CAFC site 13,537 (976 from Bournemouth).
UTCIAD
Disappointing outcome, we seemed to lack a bit of fizz, was it because Ritchie was out or just tiredness?? Credit to Charlton they looked a reasonable team and mugged us at the end, I think 0-0 would have been a fair result. It's s tough run of fixtures during this period and we seem to be running out of steam, hope we can crank it back up for the next two games. No away attendance figure on AFCB site so got it from CAFC site 13,537 (976 from Bournemouth). UTCIAD TedMacsCherryPants
  • Score: 6

7:59am Wed 19 Mar 14

djd says...

March is a tough month for the team with two games virtually very week. They should have got a result at Charlton last night...but that's football.
March is a tough month for the team with two games virtually very week. They should have got a result at Charlton last night...but that's football. djd
  • Score: 6

8:18am Wed 19 Mar 14

firstpastthepost says...

eddie howe the new tinkerman, is he the only one who thinks this formation is working, drop okane (the 5th defender) and play two up front
eddie howe the new tinkerman, is he the only one who thinks this formation is working, drop okane (the 5th defender) and play two up front firstpastthepost
  • Score: -10

8:20am Wed 19 Mar 14

rogthedodge123 says...

No need to worry about this result against a championship team who are are unlikely to go down,the team has had a good run and have ensured we will be playing championship football next season and as for play offs..... I believe you should always aim high as the closer we get to the top six will give us more belief next season.
No need to worry about this result against a championship team who are are unlikely to go down,the team has had a good run and have ensured we will be playing championship football next season and as for play offs..... I believe you should always aim high as the closer we get to the top six will give us more belief next season. rogthedodge123
  • Score: 13

8:35am Wed 19 Mar 14

abc100 says...

firstpastthepost wrote:
eddie howe the new tinkerman, is he the only one who thinks this formation is working, drop okane (the 5th defender) and play two up front
Drop Okane, you obviously don't watch us regularly, I agree about playing 2 up front in certain games but seriously would you drop okane, I think you will be in a very small minority that think that should happen
[quote][p][bold]firstpastthepost[/bold] wrote: eddie howe the new tinkerman, is he the only one who thinks this formation is working, drop okane (the 5th defender) and play two up front[/p][/quote]Drop Okane, you obviously don't watch us regularly, I agree about playing 2 up front in certain games but seriously would you drop okane, I think you will be in a very small minority that think that should happen abc100
  • Score: 19

8:53am Wed 19 Mar 14

STEADY EDDIE 1 for the road says...

If we only win one more game this month, please make sure it is against Dirty Leeds, that will more than compensate for small setbacks like last night.!!!
Had a bad feeling about the Charlton game, but a sickener to lose it so late on.
If we only win one more game this month, please make sure it is against Dirty Leeds, that will more than compensate for small setbacks like last night.!!! Had a bad feeling about the Charlton game, but a sickener to lose it so late on. STEADY EDDIE 1 for the road
  • Score: 14

8:59am Wed 19 Mar 14

big_afcb_fan says...

time to get tubbs back he is bangin them in for crawley, got to be worth a run out surely?
time to get tubbs back he is bangin them in for crawley, got to be worth a run out surely? big_afcb_fan
  • Score: -9

9:03am Wed 19 Mar 14

swanagecherrie says...

Don't you just love the championship no games are a given, We seemed to get a little tired after the 1st 30 minutes or was it after the good run we have been on we got a little complacent. Either way we are going to loose some games that we should on paper have won and vice versa. Unfortunately with the run of games we got this month we have to rotate the squad, on the good side I think we are already safe this season as I think 46 points are enough. Lets dust ourselves down and go again Saturday and lets have a real effort on Tuesday night that's one I really want to win. No real damage done still in 12th place and in a better position than we all thought we would be in at the start of the season.
Don't you just love the championship no games are a given, We seemed to get a little tired after the 1st 30 minutes or was it after the good run we have been on we got a little complacent. Either way we are going to loose some games that we should on paper have won and vice versa. Unfortunately with the run of games we got this month we have to rotate the squad, on the good side I think we are already safe this season as I think 46 points are enough. Lets dust ourselves down and go again Saturday and lets have a real effort on Tuesday night that's one I really want to win. No real damage done still in 12th place and in a better position than we all thought we would be in at the start of the season. swanagecherrie
  • Score: 14

9:13am Wed 19 Mar 14

the amazon returns again says...

abc100 wrote:
firstpastthepost wrote:
eddie howe the new tinkerman, is he the only one who thinks this formation is working, drop okane (the 5th defender) and play two up front
Drop Okane, you obviously don't watch us regularly, I agree about playing 2 up front in certain games but seriously would you drop okane, I think you will be in a very small minority that think that should happen
I watch us regularly (season ticket holder) and I agree with firstpastthepost, Howe is far too defensive, get a grip Eddie, you have to play 2 up front. The last time O'kane did not play we had 2 up front and won 5-0. Your call abc100
[quote][p][bold]abc100[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]firstpastthepost[/bold] wrote: eddie howe the new tinkerman, is he the only one who thinks this formation is working, drop okane (the 5th defender) and play two up front[/p][/quote]Drop Okane, you obviously don't watch us regularly, I agree about playing 2 up front in certain games but seriously would you drop okane, I think you will be in a very small minority that think that should happen[/p][/quote]I watch us regularly (season ticket holder) and I agree with firstpastthepost, Howe is far too defensive, get a grip Eddie, you have to play 2 up front. The last time O'kane did not play we had 2 up front and won 5-0. Your call abc100 the amazon returns again
  • Score: 3

9:26am Wed 19 Mar 14

a real supporter says...

firstpastthepost wrote:
eddie howe the new tinkerman, is he the only one who thinks this formation is working, drop okane (the 5th defender) and play two up front
O'Kane has consistently been the MOM and must be close to Player of the Season. Although I do agree with the Tinkerman comment for example Eddie stated on Monday when talking about Coulibaly "“He was out for a long time and I don’t think there is any substitute for playing games" and then the very next game he was an unused sub! With the league position as good as secured it would be a good time to start experimenting with formations for next season in particular the best forward pairing. Hope Charlton do stay up otherwise who would be our first game of the season?
[quote][p][bold]firstpastthepost[/bold] wrote: eddie howe the new tinkerman, is he the only one who thinks this formation is working, drop okane (the 5th defender) and play two up front[/p][/quote]O'Kane has consistently been the MOM and must be close to Player of the Season. Although I do agree with the Tinkerman comment for example Eddie stated on Monday when talking about Coulibaly "“He was out for a long time and I don’t think there is any substitute for playing games" and then the very next game he was an unused sub! With the league position as good as secured it would be a good time to start experimenting with formations for next season in particular the best forward pairing. Hope Charlton do stay up otherwise who would be our first game of the season? a real supporter
  • Score: 5

9:34am Wed 19 Mar 14

coops1965cherry says...

Obviously disappointed but hey, at this point of the season when teams are fighting for their lives funny things happen.

Great to see Camp steaming forward to try and nick a point, exciting stuff, adventurous, Hollywood almost.

Look at what the Yetties did at Wigan last night , so in comparison not the end of the world but maybe the end of the play off idea for us !

I sincerely hope that Charlton get out of trouble but not at our expense !
We have enough games to get over this and I am keeping the entire season in perspective, as I said strange results happen, Millwall getting a win at Derby, who saw that comIng ?

Panic not, Eddy will sort this out.

U T C I A D.
Obviously disappointed but hey, at this point of the season when teams are fighting for their lives funny things happen. Great to see Camp steaming forward to try and nick a point, exciting stuff, adventurous, Hollywood almost. Look at what the Yetties did at Wigan last night , so in comparison not the end of the world but maybe the end of the play off idea for us ! I sincerely hope that Charlton get out of trouble but not at our expense ! We have enough games to get over this and I am keeping the entire season in perspective, as I said strange results happen, Millwall getting a win at Derby, who saw that comIng ? Panic not, Eddy will sort this out. U T C I A D. coops1965cherry
  • Score: 5

9:42am Wed 19 Mar 14

Afcb-AJ says...

I have to agree O'kane is to deep he needs to drop surman who wont put a tackle in and lay o'kane level with arter, and have some one up top with grabs as he is burning out at a rapid rate ! wonder what happened to Ritchie ?
I have to agree O'kane is to deep he needs to drop surman who wont put a tackle in and lay o'kane level with arter, and have some one up top with grabs as he is burning out at a rapid rate ! wonder what happened to Ritchie ? Afcb-AJ
  • Score: 4

9:51am Wed 19 Mar 14

coops1965cherry says...

Afcb-AJ wrote:
I have to agree O'kane is to deep he needs to drop surman who wont put a tackle in and lay o'kane level with arter, and have some one up top with grabs as he is burning out at a rapid rate ! wonder what happened to Ritchie ?
Find it hard to disagree with that, O'kane is wasted that deep, he is much more effective further forward with Arter as a midfield pair and Surman as you say rarely inspires.

We need to get back to a solid 4-4-2 as you say Graban is going to be knackered before long he needs a strike partner up top just like Yan.

U T C I A D.
[quote][p][bold]Afcb-AJ[/bold] wrote: I have to agree O'kane is to deep he needs to drop surman who wont put a tackle in and lay o'kane level with arter, and have some one up top with grabs as he is burning out at a rapid rate ! wonder what happened to Ritchie ?[/p][/quote]Find it hard to disagree with that, O'kane is wasted that deep, he is much more effective further forward with Arter as a midfield pair and Surman as you say rarely inspires. We need to get back to a solid 4-4-2 as you say Graban is going to be knackered before long he needs a strike partner up top just like Yan. U T C I A D. coops1965cherry
  • Score: 4

9:52am Wed 19 Mar 14

afcb-mark says...

On the BBC website Eddie said "I think we defended OK, but we didn't look like scoring and that's a concern." Well Eddie that could possibly be solved by playing 2 up front! Very disappointed with last nights result and going there to park the bus as to speak. We moan about teams who come here and do that and apart from the Doncaster game we are doing exactly the same as those negative teams. I cannot understand why EH left it until the 59th and 70th minute to bring on two extra strikers, oh one actually because he took off our top goal scorer. 3 shots on target....very poor.
On the BBC website Eddie said "I think we defended OK, but we didn't look like scoring and that's a concern." Well Eddie that could possibly be solved by playing 2 up front! Very disappointed with last nights result and going there to park the bus as to speak. We moan about teams who come here and do that and apart from the Doncaster game we are doing exactly the same as those negative teams. I cannot understand why EH left it until the 59th and 70th minute to bring on two extra strikers, oh one actually because he took off our top goal scorer. 3 shots on target....very poor. afcb-mark
  • Score: 4

10:02am Wed 19 Mar 14

abc100 says...

the amazon returns again wrote:
abc100 wrote:
firstpastthepost wrote: eddie howe the new tinkerman, is he the only one who thinks this formation is working, drop okane (the 5th defender) and play two up front
Drop Okane, you obviously don't watch us regularly, I agree about playing 2 up front in certain games but seriously would you drop okane, I think you will be in a very small minority that think that should happen
I watch us regularly (season ticket holder) and I agree with firstpastthepost, Howe is far too defensive, get a grip Eddie, you have to play 2 up front. The last time O'kane did not play we had 2 up front and won 5-0. Your call abc100
My call, read my post again, I agree that we should play 2 up front especially at home, Doncaster were awful and whatever side we put out would of thumped them so to suggest that it was all down to okane not playing is naive, Yann was on fire that game, if anyone is to get dropped and I think he has played well after a dodgy start it would be Surman so that's my call,
[quote][p][bold]the amazon returns again[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]abc100[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]firstpastthepost[/bold] wrote: eddie howe the new tinkerman, is he the only one who thinks this formation is working, drop okane (the 5th defender) and play two up front[/p][/quote]Drop Okane, you obviously don't watch us regularly, I agree about playing 2 up front in certain games but seriously would you drop okane, I think you will be in a very small minority that think that should happen[/p][/quote]I watch us regularly (season ticket holder) and I agree with firstpastthepost, Howe is far too defensive, get a grip Eddie, you have to play 2 up front. The last time O'kane did not play we had 2 up front and won 5-0. Your call abc100[/p][/quote]My call, read my post again, I agree that we should play 2 up front especially at home, Doncaster were awful and whatever side we put out would of thumped them so to suggest that it was all down to okane not playing is naive, Yann was on fire that game, if anyone is to get dropped and I think he has played well after a dodgy start it would be Surman so that's my call, abc100
  • Score: 0

10:13am Wed 19 Mar 14

devon fan says...

the main thing we all want is to be still in the championship come the end of the season, with a few more points I am sure we will, but it cannot be disguised that this team has a problem scoring goals it is there for every one to see, but Ediie has never appeared to see it as aproblem, our little run of clean sheets would seem to have put keeping a clean sheet as a prioity, Yeovil may very well have a long road to survive but at least they are showing spirit and understand that to win matches you have to score goals, we have the players Eddie just use them in the right way
the main thing we all want is to be still in the championship come the end of the season, with a few more points I am sure we will, but it cannot be disguised that this team has a problem scoring goals it is there for every one to see, but Ediie has never appeared to see it as aproblem, our little run of clean sheets would seem to have put keeping a clean sheet as a prioity, Yeovil may very well have a long road to survive but at least they are showing spirit and understand that to win matches you have to score goals, we have the players Eddie just use them in the right way devon fan
  • Score: 8

10:14am Wed 19 Mar 14

STEADY EDDIE 1 for the road says...

Charlton should rename that stadium- THE VALLEY OF DOOM.
Not one of our favourite hunting grounds, it must be said. It's a bumpy ride in the championship aint it, but we love it anyway.!!
Charlton should rename that stadium- THE VALLEY OF DOOM. Not one of our favourite hunting grounds, it must be said. It's a bumpy ride in the championship aint it, but we love it anyway.!! STEADY EDDIE 1 for the road
  • Score: 6

10:26am Wed 19 Mar 14

mark.s says...

I went last night, it was lackluster and tired performance. the formation doesn't in itself make us defensive, 4-5-1 can be pretty attacking if the midfield play in a manor that gives the striker good support.

The wingers coming inside to help, a central midfielder pushing on and making runs beyond the striker - all good attacking practice to make a 4-5-1 successful in attack.

Unfortunately our midfield did NONE of that, and gave Grabban, and latterly Rantie and Kermorgant absolutely no help. With Charlton doing likewise sitting very deep and looking to contain, the game made for a dire spectacle.

Some fresh legs are required in the lineup, particularly midfield, that's all. No need for panic or doom mongering.

May I suggest Shaun MacDonald to replace either Arter or Surman. Also Grabban is knackered after playing that lone role mostly superbly all season. Let's see if Pitman is up to playing a lone role, and then when Yann is fully fit again he can support Pitman.
I went last night, it was lackluster and tired performance. the formation doesn't in itself make us defensive, 4-5-1 can be pretty attacking if the midfield play in a manor that gives the striker good support. The wingers coming inside to help, a central midfielder pushing on and making runs beyond the striker - all good attacking practice to make a 4-5-1 successful in attack. Unfortunately our midfield did NONE of that, and gave Grabban, and latterly Rantie and Kermorgant absolutely no help. With Charlton doing likewise sitting very deep and looking to contain, the game made for a dire spectacle. Some fresh legs are required in the lineup, particularly midfield, that's all. No need for panic or doom mongering. May I suggest Shaun MacDonald to replace either Arter or Surman. Also Grabban is knackered after playing that lone role mostly superbly all season. Let's see if Pitman is up to playing a lone role, and then when Yann is fully fit again he can support Pitman. mark.s
  • Score: 7

10:58am Wed 19 Mar 14

abc100 says...

I agree about the formation not being defensive, we play with 2 wingers not right midfielders, our full backs are encouraged to attack whenever possible, by playing a holding midfielder that is for the other 2 in midfield to get forward as much as possible and support the forward, we have no problems creating chances playing this formation but we obviously struggle to convert chances for the amount of chances we create, some people just see a 4-5-1 and instantly think that packing the midfield is defensive, they also think that as we play out from the back that we ain't getting it up there quick enough, it's Eddies way and he won't change, but we do have to score more goals!!!!
I agree about the formation not being defensive, we play with 2 wingers not right midfielders, our full backs are encouraged to attack whenever possible, by playing a holding midfielder that is for the other 2 in midfield to get forward as much as possible and support the forward, we have no problems creating chances playing this formation but we obviously struggle to convert chances for the amount of chances we create, some people just see a 4-5-1 and instantly think that packing the midfield is defensive, they also think that as we play out from the back that we ain't getting it up there quick enough, it's Eddies way and he won't change, but we do have to score more goals!!!! abc100
  • Score: 2

11:12am Wed 19 Mar 14

devon fan says...

abc100 wrote:
I agree about the formation not being defensive, we play with 2 wingers not right midfielders, our full backs are encouraged to attack whenever possible, by playing a holding midfielder that is for the other 2 in midfield to get forward as much as possible and support the forward, we have no problems creating chances playing this formation but we obviously struggle to convert chances for the amount of chances we create, some people just see a 4-5-1 and instantly think that packing the midfield is defensive, they also think that as we play out from the back that we ain't getting it up there quick enough, it's Eddies way and he won't change, but we do have to score more goals!!!!
I agree with what you say, it is a pity when we have so many players on the books with proven scoring records but with perhaps the exception of Lewis Grabban they are all failing, this does not make them bad players but appear to the victims of a system which nujllifys our scoring edge, you say this is Eddie way and he wont change, if he cannot spot the problem then maybe he is not the manager we all hope he will be
[quote][p][bold]abc100[/bold] wrote: I agree about the formation not being defensive, we play with 2 wingers not right midfielders, our full backs are encouraged to attack whenever possible, by playing a holding midfielder that is for the other 2 in midfield to get forward as much as possible and support the forward, we have no problems creating chances playing this formation but we obviously struggle to convert chances for the amount of chances we create, some people just see a 4-5-1 and instantly think that packing the midfield is defensive, they also think that as we play out from the back that we ain't getting it up there quick enough, it's Eddies way and he won't change, but we do have to score more goals!!!![/p][/quote]I agree with what you say, it is a pity when we have so many players on the books with proven scoring records but with perhaps the exception of Lewis Grabban they are all failing, this does not make them bad players but appear to the victims of a system which nujllifys our scoring edge, you say this is Eddie way and he wont change, if he cannot spot the problem then maybe he is not the manager we all hope he will be devon fan
  • Score: 1

11:16am Wed 19 Mar 14

smhinto says...

coops1965cherry wrote:
Afcb-AJ wrote: I have to agree O'kane is to deep he needs to drop surman who wont put a tackle in and lay o'kane level with arter, and have some one up top with grabs as he is burning out at a rapid rate ! wonder what happened to Ritchie ?
Find it hard to disagree with that, O'kane is wasted that deep, he is much more effective further forward with Arter as a midfield pair and Surman as you say rarely inspires. We need to get back to a solid 4-4-2 as you say Graban is going to be knackered before long he needs a strike partner up top just like Yan. U T C I A D.
Playing a 4-4-2 is dependant on how the opposition have set up (formation). We may need to change our formation and shape to counter-act the opposition on a game by game basis. On a scouting report the first thing one notes is the shape and formation of a side and any changes in formation when subs are made etc. This is important to a manager as he can factor this in with his team selection. I am sure that AFCB are no different.
.
For example, if the opposition in any given game have packed the midfield or play five in midfield then playing 4-4-2 against them would not be a good idea.

Fortunately we are now more flexible with Kermorgant up front as he gives us options of which we did'nt have before his arrival.

Regards
[quote][p][bold]coops1965cherry[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Afcb-AJ[/bold] wrote: I have to agree O'kane is to deep he needs to drop surman who wont put a tackle in and lay o'kane level with arter, and have some one up top with grabs as he is burning out at a rapid rate ! wonder what happened to Ritchie ?[/p][/quote]Find it hard to disagree with that, O'kane is wasted that deep, he is much more effective further forward with Arter as a midfield pair and Surman as you say rarely inspires. We need to get back to a solid 4-4-2 as you say Graban is going to be knackered before long he needs a strike partner up top just like Yan. U T C I A D.[/p][/quote]Playing a 4-4-2 is dependant on how the opposition have set up (formation). We may need to change our formation and shape to counter-act the opposition on a game by game basis. On a scouting report the first thing one notes is the shape and formation of a side and any changes in formation when subs are made etc. This is important to a manager as he can factor this in with his team selection. I am sure that AFCB are no different. . For example, if the opposition in any given game have packed the midfield or play five in midfield then playing 4-4-2 against them would not be a good idea. Fortunately we are now more flexible with Kermorgant up front as he gives us options of which we did'nt have before his arrival. Regards smhinto
  • Score: 0

11:37am Wed 19 Mar 14

dustbindanny says...

Does anyone who went last night agree that it all started going wrong ,when the substitutes started coming on, as apart from our poor finishing in front of goal (again) it was Cherries 9 shots and Charlton 4shots at that time and ended 11 to 10 in Charlton,s favour.?
Does anyone who went last night agree that it all started going wrong ,when the substitutes started coming on, as apart from our poor finishing in front of goal (again) it was Cherries 9 shots and Charlton 4shots at that time and ended 11 to 10 in Charlton,s favour.? dustbindanny
  • Score: 5

12:22pm Wed 19 Mar 14

talbotruss says...

Some good comments about our formation, style and players here so I thought I'd just add my observations.

It does seem obvious to me that while 4-5-1 has been quite a good formation for us in recent months, it does also restrict our scoring ability.
An earlier poster stated that you need the midfielders to get up and support the striker when playing this way and it's very true but unfortunately, as was pointed out, that doesn’t really happen.

I think O’Kane looks like he is energetic and naturally athletic enough to be a ‘box to box’ type player but Arter and Surman, while talented playmakers, don’t really get properly involved in helping Grabban out which is why we seem so short of goals in the 4-5-1 and it’s normally only ever Grabban who does score.

To underline the point, since the 4-4-2 goalfest against Doncaster, we’ve had four games of 4-5-1. These have yielded just two goals – both for Grabban – and both were due to goalkeeping errors. The penalty against Blackpool due to a rash charge from the keeper, then Paul Robinson being beaten at his near post from a long ranger at Blackburn.
We should have had the disallowed goal from Grabban (who else?) against Middlesbrough, but again, that was a keeper making a mistake.

It all shows that we just don’t create or score enough chances at the moment, and possibly never really will in a 4-5-1 unless we have some different central attacking players to make it work.
Surman has had a number of decent games for us but to play in his position and still not to have scored a goal all season really does make his presence in the team a little bit questionable.

Of course, now Kermorgant is back, hopefully we can do 4-4-2 again and things could turn out fine, but I think it is worth supporting the theory that 4-5-1 is promoting us avoiding defeat more than it is promoting us winning games.

One more question is why are we so insistent on playing the wingers on their ‘wrong’ wing? With Kermorgant in the team, it will make much more sense to play the left footed Ritchie on the left and any of Pugh/Coulibaly/Frase
r on the right so the wingers can play like wingers and get some proper crosses in with their correct foot. Just a thought!

Great season though. We’re not going up, we’re not going down. Let’s enjoy what’s left and see if we can improve even further for next season.
Some good comments about our formation, style and players here so I thought I'd just add my observations. It does seem obvious to me that while 4-5-1 has been quite a good formation for us in recent months, it does also restrict our scoring ability. An earlier poster stated that you need the midfielders to get up and support the striker when playing this way and it's very true but unfortunately, as was pointed out, that doesn’t really happen. I think O’Kane looks like he is energetic and naturally athletic enough to be a ‘box to box’ type player but Arter and Surman, while talented playmakers, don’t really get properly involved in helping Grabban out which is why we seem so short of goals in the 4-5-1 and it’s normally only ever Grabban who does score. To underline the point, since the 4-4-2 goalfest against Doncaster, we’ve had four games of 4-5-1. These have yielded just two goals – both for Grabban – and both were due to goalkeeping errors. The penalty against Blackpool due to a rash charge from the keeper, then Paul Robinson being beaten at his near post from a long ranger at Blackburn. We should have had the disallowed goal from Grabban (who else?) against Middlesbrough, but again, that was a keeper making a mistake. It all shows that we just don’t create or score enough chances at the moment, and possibly never really will in a 4-5-1 unless we have some different central attacking players to make it work. Surman has had a number of decent games for us but to play in his position and still not to have scored a goal all season really does make his presence in the team a little bit questionable. Of course, now Kermorgant is back, hopefully we can do 4-4-2 again and things could turn out fine, but I think it is worth supporting the theory that 4-5-1 is promoting us avoiding defeat more than it is promoting us winning games. One more question is why are we so insistent on playing the wingers on their ‘wrong’ wing? With Kermorgant in the team, it will make much more sense to play the left footed Ritchie on the left and any of Pugh/Coulibaly/Frase r on the right so the wingers can play like wingers and get some proper crosses in with their correct foot. Just a thought! Great season though. We’re not going up, we’re not going down. Let’s enjoy what’s left and see if we can improve even further for next season. talbotruss
  • Score: 7

12:39pm Wed 19 Mar 14

Rotterdam says...

Obviously we'd all like AFC to score more goals.

But I think some posters here are overdoing the defeatism

We are 12th in the table and 12 teams have scored more than us, so our strikers aren't underperforming compared to any other part of the team.

If you think it's only about scoring goals, look where QPR are and how many they've scored!
Obviously we'd all like AFC to score more goals. But I think some posters here are overdoing the defeatism We are 12th in the table and 12 teams have scored more than us, so our strikers aren't underperforming compared to any other part of the team. If you think it's only about scoring goals, look where QPR are and how many they've scored! Rotterdam
  • Score: 2

12:55pm Wed 19 Mar 14

smhinto says...

talbotruss wrote:
Some good comments about our formation, style and players here so I thought I'd just add my observations. It does seem obvious to me that while 4-5-1 has been quite a good formation for us in recent months, it does also restrict our scoring ability. An earlier poster stated that you need the midfielders to get up and support the striker when playing this way and it's very true but unfortunately, as was pointed out, that doesn’t really happen. I think O’Kane looks like he is energetic and naturally athletic enough to be a ‘box to box’ type player but Arter and Surman, while talented playmakers, don’t really get properly involved in helping Grabban out which is why we seem so short of goals in the 4-5-1 and it’s normally only ever Grabban who does score. To underline the point, since the 4-4-2 goalfest against Doncaster, we’ve had four games of 4-5-1. These have yielded just two goals – both for Grabban – and both were due to goalkeeping errors. The penalty against Blackpool due to a rash charge from the keeper, then Paul Robinson being beaten at his near post from a long ranger at Blackburn. We should have had the disallowed goal from Grabban (who else?) against Middlesbrough, but again, that was a keeper making a mistake. It all shows that we just don’t create or score enough chances at the moment, and possibly never really will in a 4-5-1 unless we have some different central attacking players to make it work. Surman has had a number of decent games for us but to play in his position and still not to have scored a goal all season really does make his presence in the team a little bit questionable. Of course, now Kermorgant is back, hopefully we can do 4-4-2 again and things could turn out fine, but I think it is worth supporting the theory that 4-5-1 is promoting us avoiding defeat more than it is promoting us winning games. One more question is why are we so insistent on playing the wingers on their ‘wrong’ wing? With Kermorgant in the team, it will make much more sense to play the left footed Ritchie on the left and any of Pugh/Coulibaly/Frase r on the right so the wingers can play like wingers and get some proper crosses in with their correct foot. Just a thought! Great season though. We’re not going up, we’re not going down. Let’s enjoy what’s left and see if we can improve even further for next season.
In answer to your question concerning the wide players. They are often switched around so that if one is playing on his unnatural side it will enable them to cut inside and make an angle for shooting.
.
It is a common tactic imposed to keep the opposition guessing and to press the oppositions full backs.
.
Regards
[quote][p][bold]talbotruss[/bold] wrote: Some good comments about our formation, style and players here so I thought I'd just add my observations. It does seem obvious to me that while 4-5-1 has been quite a good formation for us in recent months, it does also restrict our scoring ability. An earlier poster stated that you need the midfielders to get up and support the striker when playing this way and it's very true but unfortunately, as was pointed out, that doesn’t really happen. I think O’Kane looks like he is energetic and naturally athletic enough to be a ‘box to box’ type player but Arter and Surman, while talented playmakers, don’t really get properly involved in helping Grabban out which is why we seem so short of goals in the 4-5-1 and it’s normally only ever Grabban who does score. To underline the point, since the 4-4-2 goalfest against Doncaster, we’ve had four games of 4-5-1. These have yielded just two goals – both for Grabban – and both were due to goalkeeping errors. The penalty against Blackpool due to a rash charge from the keeper, then Paul Robinson being beaten at his near post from a long ranger at Blackburn. We should have had the disallowed goal from Grabban (who else?) against Middlesbrough, but again, that was a keeper making a mistake. It all shows that we just don’t create or score enough chances at the moment, and possibly never really will in a 4-5-1 unless we have some different central attacking players to make it work. Surman has had a number of decent games for us but to play in his position and still not to have scored a goal all season really does make his presence in the team a little bit questionable. Of course, now Kermorgant is back, hopefully we can do 4-4-2 again and things could turn out fine, but I think it is worth supporting the theory that 4-5-1 is promoting us avoiding defeat more than it is promoting us winning games. One more question is why are we so insistent on playing the wingers on their ‘wrong’ wing? With Kermorgant in the team, it will make much more sense to play the left footed Ritchie on the left and any of Pugh/Coulibaly/Frase r on the right so the wingers can play like wingers and get some proper crosses in with their correct foot. Just a thought! Great season though. We’re not going up, we’re not going down. Let’s enjoy what’s left and see if we can improve even further for next season.[/p][/quote]In answer to your question concerning the wide players. They are often switched around so that if one is playing on his unnatural side it will enable them to cut inside and make an angle for shooting. . It is a common tactic imposed to keep the opposition guessing and to press the oppositions full backs. . Regards smhinto
  • Score: -3

1:27pm Wed 19 Mar 14

abc100 says...

smhinto wrote:
talbotruss wrote:
Some good comments about our formation, style and players here so I thought I'd just add my observations. It does seem obvious to me that while 4-5-1 has been quite a good formation for us in recent months, it does also restrict our scoring ability. An earlier poster stated that you need the midfielders to get up and support the striker when playing this way and it's very true but unfortunately, as was pointed out, that doesn’t really happen. I think O’Kane looks like he is energetic and naturally athletic enough to be a ‘box to box’ type player but Arter and Surman, while talented playmakers, don’t really get properly involved in helping Grabban out which is why we seem so short of goals in the 4-5-1 and it’s normally only ever Grabban who does score. To underline the point, since the 4-4-2 goalfest against Doncaster, we’ve had four games of 4-5-1. These have yielded just two goals – both for Grabban – and both were due to goalkeeping errors. The penalty against Blackpool due to a rash charge from the keeper, then Paul Robinson being beaten at his near post from a long ranger at Blackburn. We should have had the disallowed goal from Grabban (who else?) against Middlesbrough, but again, that was a keeper making a mistake. It all shows that we just don’t create or score enough chances at the moment, and possibly never really will in a 4-5-1 unless we have some different central attacking players to make it work. Surman has had a number of decent games for us but to play in his position and still not to have scored a goal all season really does make his presence in the team a little bit questionable. Of course, now Kermorgant is back, hopefully we can do 4-4-2 again and things could turn out fine, but I think it is worth supporting the theory that 4-5-1 is promoting us avoiding defeat more than it is promoting us winning games. One more question is why are we so insistent on playing the wingers on their ‘wrong’ wing? With Kermorgant in the team, it will make much more sense to play the left footed Ritchie on the left and any of Pugh/Coulibaly/Frase r on the right so the wingers can play like wingers and get some proper crosses in with their correct foot. Just a thought! Great season though. We’re not going up, we’re not going down. Let’s enjoy what’s left and see if we can improve even further for next season.
In answer to your question concerning the wide players. They are often switched around so that if one is playing on his unnatural side it will enable them to cut inside and make an angle for shooting.
.
It is a common tactic imposed to keep the opposition guessing and to press the oppositions full backs.
.
Regards
Pugh is right footed but when we attack the North stand I don't ever seem to recall him playing on our right, I understand that Ritchie as a left footed player will play on the right as he is obviously a threat cutting in and shooting, Pugh hasn't really got that threat from the left and as he likes to beat the defender 3 times before he crosses it it does give the centre backs time to back in position, plus if Pugh is crossing from the left with his right foot it's always going straight towards the keeper with little pace on it, I will stop there cos I'm getting my left&right mixed up!!!!!
[quote][p][bold]smhinto[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]talbotruss[/bold] wrote: Some good comments about our formation, style and players here so I thought I'd just add my observations. It does seem obvious to me that while 4-5-1 has been quite a good formation for us in recent months, it does also restrict our scoring ability. An earlier poster stated that you need the midfielders to get up and support the striker when playing this way and it's very true but unfortunately, as was pointed out, that doesn’t really happen. I think O’Kane looks like he is energetic and naturally athletic enough to be a ‘box to box’ type player but Arter and Surman, while talented playmakers, don’t really get properly involved in helping Grabban out which is why we seem so short of goals in the 4-5-1 and it’s normally only ever Grabban who does score. To underline the point, since the 4-4-2 goalfest against Doncaster, we’ve had four games of 4-5-1. These have yielded just two goals – both for Grabban – and both were due to goalkeeping errors. The penalty against Blackpool due to a rash charge from the keeper, then Paul Robinson being beaten at his near post from a long ranger at Blackburn. We should have had the disallowed goal from Grabban (who else?) against Middlesbrough, but again, that was a keeper making a mistake. It all shows that we just don’t create or score enough chances at the moment, and possibly never really will in a 4-5-1 unless we have some different central attacking players to make it work. Surman has had a number of decent games for us but to play in his position and still not to have scored a goal all season really does make his presence in the team a little bit questionable. Of course, now Kermorgant is back, hopefully we can do 4-4-2 again and things could turn out fine, but I think it is worth supporting the theory that 4-5-1 is promoting us avoiding defeat more than it is promoting us winning games. One more question is why are we so insistent on playing the wingers on their ‘wrong’ wing? With Kermorgant in the team, it will make much more sense to play the left footed Ritchie on the left and any of Pugh/Coulibaly/Frase r on the right so the wingers can play like wingers and get some proper crosses in with their correct foot. Just a thought! Great season though. We’re not going up, we’re not going down. Let’s enjoy what’s left and see if we can improve even further for next season.[/p][/quote]In answer to your question concerning the wide players. They are often switched around so that if one is playing on his unnatural side it will enable them to cut inside and make an angle for shooting. . It is a common tactic imposed to keep the opposition guessing and to press the oppositions full backs. . Regards[/p][/quote]Pugh is right footed but when we attack the North stand I don't ever seem to recall him playing on our right, I understand that Ritchie as a left footed player will play on the right as he is obviously a threat cutting in and shooting, Pugh hasn't really got that threat from the left and as he likes to beat the defender 3 times before he crosses it it does give the centre backs time to back in position, plus if Pugh is crossing from the left with his right foot it's always going straight towards the keeper with little pace on it, I will stop there cos I'm getting my left&right mixed up!!!!! abc100
  • Score: -1

2:13pm Wed 19 Mar 14

talbotruss says...

abc100 wrote:
smhinto wrote:
talbotruss wrote: Some good comments about our formation, style and players here so I thought I'd just add my observations. It does seem obvious to me that while 4-5-1 has been quite a good formation for us in recent months, it does also restrict our scoring ability. An earlier poster stated that you need the midfielders to get up and support the striker when playing this way and it's very true but unfortunately, as was pointed out, that doesn’t really happen. I think O’Kane looks like he is energetic and naturally athletic enough to be a ‘box to box’ type player but Arter and Surman, while talented playmakers, don’t really get properly involved in helping Grabban out which is why we seem so short of goals in the 4-5-1 and it’s normally only ever Grabban who does score. To underline the point, since the 4-4-2 goalfest against Doncaster, we’ve had four games of 4-5-1. These have yielded just two goals – both for Grabban – and both were due to goalkeeping errors. The penalty against Blackpool due to a rash charge from the keeper, then Paul Robinson being beaten at his near post from a long ranger at Blackburn. We should have had the disallowed goal from Grabban (who else?) against Middlesbrough, but again, that was a keeper making a mistake. It all shows that we just don’t create or score enough chances at the moment, and possibly never really will in a 4-5-1 unless we have some different central attacking players to make it work. Surman has had a number of decent games for us but to play in his position and still not to have scored a goal all season really does make his presence in the team a little bit questionable. Of course, now Kermorgant is back, hopefully we can do 4-4-2 again and things could turn out fine, but I think it is worth supporting the theory that 4-5-1 is promoting us avoiding defeat more than it is promoting us winning games. One more question is why are we so insistent on playing the wingers on their ‘wrong’ wing? With Kermorgant in the team, it will make much more sense to play the left footed Ritchie on the left and any of Pugh/Coulibaly/Frase r on the right so the wingers can play like wingers and get some proper crosses in with their correct foot. Just a thought! Great season though. We’re not going up, we’re not going down. Let’s enjoy what’s left and see if we can improve even further for next season.
In answer to your question concerning the wide players. They are often switched around so that if one is playing on his unnatural side it will enable them to cut inside and make an angle for shooting. . It is a common tactic imposed to keep the opposition guessing and to press the oppositions full backs. . Regards
Pugh is right footed but when we attack the North stand I don't ever seem to recall him playing on our right, I understand that Ritchie as a left footed player will play on the right as he is obviously a threat cutting in and shooting, Pugh hasn't really got that threat from the left and as he likes to beat the defender 3 times before he crosses it it does give the centre backs time to back in position, plus if Pugh is crossing from the left with his right foot it's always going straight towards the keeper with little pace on it, I will stop there cos I'm getting my left&right mixed up!!!!!
To the point made about cutting in to shoot, OK I did know that but what I was trying to get at a bit more was why do we do it when it doesn’t really bring us many obvious goals from it?
Ritchie had a good flurry of goals when he first came back from injury but has not scored for a long time now; likewise Pugh and Fraser.

In contrast, in Kermorgant’s only start for the team, he scored three goals from crosses, all of which were supplied by players crossing the ball with their natural foot – Harte for the first goal and then Francis for the next two.
Shouldn’t that make it crystal clear that if the full backs can do this role then perhaps our wingers ought to be doing it too?

I know Howe swaps the wingers round occasionally but my point is that the default option should be that they play on their natural wing and then swap for a brief period in the game to mix it up – not the other way round.

I remember when Daniels was out for a while last season and Ritchie had to play at left back. In the game at MK Dons he put in a couple of superb crosses with pace from the left that we just never get to see any more because of this insistence on playing opposite wings.

It’s mainly only justified to play on your ‘wrong’ wing if you score or create a lot of goals by doing so, like Gareth Bale. Our guys don’t do that so we should try things the other way round…
[quote][p][bold]abc100[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]smhinto[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]talbotruss[/bold] wrote: Some good comments about our formation, style and players here so I thought I'd just add my observations. It does seem obvious to me that while 4-5-1 has been quite a good formation for us in recent months, it does also restrict our scoring ability. An earlier poster stated that you need the midfielders to get up and support the striker when playing this way and it's very true but unfortunately, as was pointed out, that doesn’t really happen. I think O’Kane looks like he is energetic and naturally athletic enough to be a ‘box to box’ type player but Arter and Surman, while talented playmakers, don’t really get properly involved in helping Grabban out which is why we seem so short of goals in the 4-5-1 and it’s normally only ever Grabban who does score. To underline the point, since the 4-4-2 goalfest against Doncaster, we’ve had four games of 4-5-1. These have yielded just two goals – both for Grabban – and both were due to goalkeeping errors. The penalty against Blackpool due to a rash charge from the keeper, then Paul Robinson being beaten at his near post from a long ranger at Blackburn. We should have had the disallowed goal from Grabban (who else?) against Middlesbrough, but again, that was a keeper making a mistake. It all shows that we just don’t create or score enough chances at the moment, and possibly never really will in a 4-5-1 unless we have some different central attacking players to make it work. Surman has had a number of decent games for us but to play in his position and still not to have scored a goal all season really does make his presence in the team a little bit questionable. Of course, now Kermorgant is back, hopefully we can do 4-4-2 again and things could turn out fine, but I think it is worth supporting the theory that 4-5-1 is promoting us avoiding defeat more than it is promoting us winning games. One more question is why are we so insistent on playing the wingers on their ‘wrong’ wing? With Kermorgant in the team, it will make much more sense to play the left footed Ritchie on the left and any of Pugh/Coulibaly/Frase r on the right so the wingers can play like wingers and get some proper crosses in with their correct foot. Just a thought! Great season though. We’re not going up, we’re not going down. Let’s enjoy what’s left and see if we can improve even further for next season.[/p][/quote]In answer to your question concerning the wide players. They are often switched around so that if one is playing on his unnatural side it will enable them to cut inside and make an angle for shooting. . It is a common tactic imposed to keep the opposition guessing and to press the oppositions full backs. . Regards[/p][/quote]Pugh is right footed but when we attack the North stand I don't ever seem to recall him playing on our right, I understand that Ritchie as a left footed player will play on the right as he is obviously a threat cutting in and shooting, Pugh hasn't really got that threat from the left and as he likes to beat the defender 3 times before he crosses it it does give the centre backs time to back in position, plus if Pugh is crossing from the left with his right foot it's always going straight towards the keeper with little pace on it, I will stop there cos I'm getting my left&right mixed up!!!!![/p][/quote]To the point made about cutting in to shoot, OK I did know that but what I was trying to get at a bit more was why do we do it when it doesn’t really bring us many obvious goals from it? Ritchie had a good flurry of goals when he first came back from injury but has not scored for a long time now; likewise Pugh and Fraser. In contrast, in Kermorgant’s only start for the team, he scored three goals from crosses, all of which were supplied by players crossing the ball with their natural foot – Harte for the first goal and then Francis for the next two. Shouldn’t that make it crystal clear that if the full backs can do this role then perhaps our wingers ought to be doing it too? I know Howe swaps the wingers round occasionally but my point is that the default option should be that they play on their natural wing and then swap for a brief period in the game to mix it up – not the other way round. I remember when Daniels was out for a while last season and Ritchie had to play at left back. In the game at MK Dons he put in a couple of superb crosses with pace from the left that we just never get to see any more because of this insistence on playing opposite wings. It’s mainly only justified to play on your ‘wrong’ wing if you score or create a lot of goals by doing so, like Gareth Bale. Our guys don’t do that so we should try things the other way round… talbotruss
  • Score: 5

2:25pm Wed 19 Mar 14

abc100 says...

talbotruss wrote:
abc100 wrote:
smhinto wrote:
talbotruss wrote: Some good comments about our formation, style and players here so I thought I'd just add my observations. It does seem obvious to me that while 4-5-1 has been quite a good formation for us in recent months, it does also restrict our scoring ability. An earlier poster stated that you need the midfielders to get up and support the striker when playing this way and it's very true but unfortunately, as was pointed out, that doesn’t really happen. I think O’Kane looks like he is energetic and naturally athletic enough to be a ‘box to box’ type player but Arter and Surman, while talented playmakers, don’t really get properly involved in helping Grabban out which is why we seem so short of goals in the 4-5-1 and it’s normally only ever Grabban who does score. To underline the point, since the 4-4-2 goalfest against Doncaster, we’ve had four games of 4-5-1. These have yielded just two goals – both for Grabban – and both were due to goalkeeping errors. The penalty against Blackpool due to a rash charge from the keeper, then Paul Robinson being beaten at his near post from a long ranger at Blackburn. We should have had the disallowed goal from Grabban (who else?) against Middlesbrough, but again, that was a keeper making a mistake. It all shows that we just don’t create or score enough chances at the moment, and possibly never really will in a 4-5-1 unless we have some different central attacking players to make it work. Surman has had a number of decent games for us but to play in his position and still not to have scored a goal all season really does make his presence in the team a little bit questionable. Of course, now Kermorgant is back, hopefully we can do 4-4-2 again and things could turn out fine, but I think it is worth supporting the theory that 4-5-1 is promoting us avoiding defeat more than it is promoting us winning games. One more question is why are we so insistent on playing the wingers on their ‘wrong’ wing? With Kermorgant in the team, it will make much more sense to play the left footed Ritchie on the left and any of Pugh/Coulibaly/Frase r on the right so the wingers can play like wingers and get some proper crosses in with their correct foot. Just a thought! Great season though. We’re not going up, we’re not going down. Let’s enjoy what’s left and see if we can improve even further for next season.
In answer to your question concerning the wide players. They are often switched around so that if one is playing on his unnatural side it will enable them to cut inside and make an angle for shooting. . It is a common tactic imposed to keep the opposition guessing and to press the oppositions full backs. . Regards
Pugh is right footed but when we attack the North stand I don't ever seem to recall him playing on our right, I understand that Ritchie as a left footed player will play on the right as he is obviously a threat cutting in and shooting, Pugh hasn't really got that threat from the left and as he likes to beat the defender 3 times before he crosses it it does give the centre backs time to back in position, plus if Pugh is crossing from the left with his right foot it's always going straight towards the keeper with little pace on it, I will stop there cos I'm getting my left&right mixed up!!!!!
To the point made about cutting in to shoot, OK I did know that but what I was trying to get at a bit more was why do we do it when it doesn’t really bring us many obvious goals from it? Ritchie had a good flurry of goals when he first came back from injury but has not scored for a long time now; likewise Pugh and Fraser. In contrast, in Kermorgant’s only start for the team, he scored three goals from crosses, all of which were supplied by players crossing the ball with their natural foot – Harte for the first goal and then Francis for the next two. Shouldn’t that make it crystal clear that if the full backs can do this role then perhaps our wingers ought to be doing it too? I know Howe swaps the wingers round occasionally but my point is that the default option should be that they play on their natural wing and then swap for a brief period in the game to mix it up – not the other way round. I remember when Daniels was out for a while last season and Ritchie had to play at left back. In the game at MK Dons he put in a couple of superb crosses with pace from the left that we just never get to see any more because of this insistence on playing opposite wings. It’s mainly only justified to play on your ‘wrong’ wing if you score or create a lot of goals by doing so, like Gareth Bale. Our guys don’t do that so we should try things the other way round…
I agree totally, as wingers the idea is to whip the ball in early or beat the full back and deliver a cross, not to beat the defender then head back on yourself to cross it, the early ball is usually the best and most dangerous one and the one the centre backs find hardest to defend, Pugh on the right for me and Ritchie on the left
[quote][p][bold]talbotruss[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]abc100[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]smhinto[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]talbotruss[/bold] wrote: Some good comments about our formation, style and players here so I thought I'd just add my observations. It does seem obvious to me that while 4-5-1 has been quite a good formation for us in recent months, it does also restrict our scoring ability. An earlier poster stated that you need the midfielders to get up and support the striker when playing this way and it's very true but unfortunately, as was pointed out, that doesn’t really happen. I think O’Kane looks like he is energetic and naturally athletic enough to be a ‘box to box’ type player but Arter and Surman, while talented playmakers, don’t really get properly involved in helping Grabban out which is why we seem so short of goals in the 4-5-1 and it’s normally only ever Grabban who does score. To underline the point, since the 4-4-2 goalfest against Doncaster, we’ve had four games of 4-5-1. These have yielded just two goals – both for Grabban – and both were due to goalkeeping errors. The penalty against Blackpool due to a rash charge from the keeper, then Paul Robinson being beaten at his near post from a long ranger at Blackburn. We should have had the disallowed goal from Grabban (who else?) against Middlesbrough, but again, that was a keeper making a mistake. It all shows that we just don’t create or score enough chances at the moment, and possibly never really will in a 4-5-1 unless we have some different central attacking players to make it work. Surman has had a number of decent games for us but to play in his position and still not to have scored a goal all season really does make his presence in the team a little bit questionable. Of course, now Kermorgant is back, hopefully we can do 4-4-2 again and things could turn out fine, but I think it is worth supporting the theory that 4-5-1 is promoting us avoiding defeat more than it is promoting us winning games. One more question is why are we so insistent on playing the wingers on their ‘wrong’ wing? With Kermorgant in the team, it will make much more sense to play the left footed Ritchie on the left and any of Pugh/Coulibaly/Frase r on the right so the wingers can play like wingers and get some proper crosses in with their correct foot. Just a thought! Great season though. We’re not going up, we’re not going down. Let’s enjoy what’s left and see if we can improve even further for next season.[/p][/quote]In answer to your question concerning the wide players. They are often switched around so that if one is playing on his unnatural side it will enable them to cut inside and make an angle for shooting. . It is a common tactic imposed to keep the opposition guessing and to press the oppositions full backs. . Regards[/p][/quote]Pugh is right footed but when we attack the North stand I don't ever seem to recall him playing on our right, I understand that Ritchie as a left footed player will play on the right as he is obviously a threat cutting in and shooting, Pugh hasn't really got that threat from the left and as he likes to beat the defender 3 times before he crosses it it does give the centre backs time to back in position, plus if Pugh is crossing from the left with his right foot it's always going straight towards the keeper with little pace on it, I will stop there cos I'm getting my left&right mixed up!!!!![/p][/quote]To the point made about cutting in to shoot, OK I did know that but what I was trying to get at a bit more was why do we do it when it doesn’t really bring us many obvious goals from it? Ritchie had a good flurry of goals when he first came back from injury but has not scored for a long time now; likewise Pugh and Fraser. In contrast, in Kermorgant’s only start for the team, he scored three goals from crosses, all of which were supplied by players crossing the ball with their natural foot – Harte for the first goal and then Francis for the next two. Shouldn’t that make it crystal clear that if the full backs can do this role then perhaps our wingers ought to be doing it too? I know Howe swaps the wingers round occasionally but my point is that the default option should be that they play on their natural wing and then swap for a brief period in the game to mix it up – not the other way round. I remember when Daniels was out for a while last season and Ritchie had to play at left back. In the game at MK Dons he put in a couple of superb crosses with pace from the left that we just never get to see any more because of this insistence on playing opposite wings. It’s mainly only justified to play on your ‘wrong’ wing if you score or create a lot of goals by doing so, like Gareth Bale. Our guys don’t do that so we should try things the other way round…[/p][/quote]I agree totally, as wingers the idea is to whip the ball in early or beat the full back and deliver a cross, not to beat the defender then head back on yourself to cross it, the early ball is usually the best and most dangerous one and the one the centre backs find hardest to defend, Pugh on the right for me and Ritchie on the left abc100
  • Score: -1

2:32pm Wed 19 Mar 14

talbotruss says...

abc100 wrote:
talbotruss wrote:
abc100 wrote:
smhinto wrote:
talbotruss wrote: Some good comments about our formation, style and players here so I thought I'd just add my observations. It does seem obvious to me that while 4-5-1 has been quite a good formation for us in recent months, it does also restrict our scoring ability. An earlier poster stated that you need the midfielders to get up and support the striker when playing this way and it's very true but unfortunately, as was pointed out, that doesn’t really happen. I think O’Kane looks like he is energetic and naturally athletic enough to be a ‘box to box’ type player but Arter and Surman, while talented playmakers, don’t really get properly involved in helping Grabban out which is why we seem so short of goals in the 4-5-1 and it’s normally only ever Grabban who does score. To underline the point, since the 4-4-2 goalfest against Doncaster, we’ve had four games of 4-5-1. These have yielded just two goals – both for Grabban – and both were due to goalkeeping errors. The penalty against Blackpool due to a rash charge from the keeper, then Paul Robinson being beaten at his near post from a long ranger at Blackburn. We should have had the disallowed goal from Grabban (who else?) against Middlesbrough, but again, that was a keeper making a mistake. It all shows that we just don’t create or score enough chances at the moment, and possibly never really will in a 4-5-1 unless we have some different central attacking players to make it work. Surman has had a number of decent games for us but to play in his position and still not to have scored a goal all season really does make his presence in the team a little bit questionable. Of course, now Kermorgant is back, hopefully we can do 4-4-2 again and things could turn out fine, but I think it is worth supporting the theory that 4-5-1 is promoting us avoiding defeat more than it is promoting us winning games. One more question is why are we so insistent on playing the wingers on their ‘wrong’ wing? With Kermorgant in the team, it will make much more sense to play the left footed Ritchie on the left and any of Pugh/Coulibaly/Frase r on the right so the wingers can play like wingers and get some proper crosses in with their correct foot. Just a thought! Great season though. We’re not going up, we’re not going down. Let’s enjoy what’s left and see if we can improve even further for next season.
In answer to your question concerning the wide players. They are often switched around so that if one is playing on his unnatural side it will enable them to cut inside and make an angle for shooting. . It is a common tactic imposed to keep the opposition guessing and to press the oppositions full backs. . Regards
Pugh is right footed but when we attack the North stand I don't ever seem to recall him playing on our right, I understand that Ritchie as a left footed player will play on the right as he is obviously a threat cutting in and shooting, Pugh hasn't really got that threat from the left and as he likes to beat the defender 3 times before he crosses it it does give the centre backs time to back in position, plus if Pugh is crossing from the left with his right foot it's always going straight towards the keeper with little pace on it, I will stop there cos I'm getting my left&right mixed up!!!!!
To the point made about cutting in to shoot, OK I did know that but what I was trying to get at a bit more was why do we do it when it doesn’t really bring us many obvious goals from it? Ritchie had a good flurry of goals when he first came back from injury but has not scored for a long time now; likewise Pugh and Fraser. In contrast, in Kermorgant’s only start for the team, he scored three goals from crosses, all of which were supplied by players crossing the ball with their natural foot – Harte for the first goal and then Francis for the next two. Shouldn’t that make it crystal clear that if the full backs can do this role then perhaps our wingers ought to be doing it too? I know Howe swaps the wingers round occasionally but my point is that the default option should be that they play on their natural wing and then swap for a brief period in the game to mix it up – not the other way round. I remember when Daniels was out for a while last season and Ritchie had to play at left back. In the game at MK Dons he put in a couple of superb crosses with pace from the left that we just never get to see any more because of this insistence on playing opposite wings. It’s mainly only justified to play on your ‘wrong’ wing if you score or create a lot of goals by doing so, like Gareth Bale. Our guys don’t do that so we should try things the other way round…
I agree totally, as wingers the idea is to whip the ball in early or beat the full back and deliver a cross, not to beat the defender then head back on yourself to cross it, the early ball is usually the best and most dangerous one and the one the centre backs find hardest to defend, Pugh on the right for me and Ritchie on the left
Let's hope Eddie's reading!
[quote][p][bold]abc100[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]talbotruss[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]abc100[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]smhinto[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]talbotruss[/bold] wrote: Some good comments about our formation, style and players here so I thought I'd just add my observations. It does seem obvious to me that while 4-5-1 has been quite a good formation for us in recent months, it does also restrict our scoring ability. An earlier poster stated that you need the midfielders to get up and support the striker when playing this way and it's very true but unfortunately, as was pointed out, that doesn’t really happen. I think O’Kane looks like he is energetic and naturally athletic enough to be a ‘box to box’ type player but Arter and Surman, while talented playmakers, don’t really get properly involved in helping Grabban out which is why we seem so short of goals in the 4-5-1 and it’s normally only ever Grabban who does score. To underline the point, since the 4-4-2 goalfest against Doncaster, we’ve had four games of 4-5-1. These have yielded just two goals – both for Grabban – and both were due to goalkeeping errors. The penalty against Blackpool due to a rash charge from the keeper, then Paul Robinson being beaten at his near post from a long ranger at Blackburn. We should have had the disallowed goal from Grabban (who else?) against Middlesbrough, but again, that was a keeper making a mistake. It all shows that we just don’t create or score enough chances at the moment, and possibly never really will in a 4-5-1 unless we have some different central attacking players to make it work. Surman has had a number of decent games for us but to play in his position and still not to have scored a goal all season really does make his presence in the team a little bit questionable. Of course, now Kermorgant is back, hopefully we can do 4-4-2 again and things could turn out fine, but I think it is worth supporting the theory that 4-5-1 is promoting us avoiding defeat more than it is promoting us winning games. One more question is why are we so insistent on playing the wingers on their ‘wrong’ wing? With Kermorgant in the team, it will make much more sense to play the left footed Ritchie on the left and any of Pugh/Coulibaly/Frase r on the right so the wingers can play like wingers and get some proper crosses in with their correct foot. Just a thought! Great season though. We’re not going up, we’re not going down. Let’s enjoy what’s left and see if we can improve even further for next season.[/p][/quote]In answer to your question concerning the wide players. They are often switched around so that if one is playing on his unnatural side it will enable them to cut inside and make an angle for shooting. . It is a common tactic imposed to keep the opposition guessing and to press the oppositions full backs. . Regards[/p][/quote]Pugh is right footed but when we attack the North stand I don't ever seem to recall him playing on our right, I understand that Ritchie as a left footed player will play on the right as he is obviously a threat cutting in and shooting, Pugh hasn't really got that threat from the left and as he likes to beat the defender 3 times before he crosses it it does give the centre backs time to back in position, plus if Pugh is crossing from the left with his right foot it's always going straight towards the keeper with little pace on it, I will stop there cos I'm getting my left&right mixed up!!!!![/p][/quote]To the point made about cutting in to shoot, OK I did know that but what I was trying to get at a bit more was why do we do it when it doesn’t really bring us many obvious goals from it? Ritchie had a good flurry of goals when he first came back from injury but has not scored for a long time now; likewise Pugh and Fraser. In contrast, in Kermorgant’s only start for the team, he scored three goals from crosses, all of which were supplied by players crossing the ball with their natural foot – Harte for the first goal and then Francis for the next two. Shouldn’t that make it crystal clear that if the full backs can do this role then perhaps our wingers ought to be doing it too? I know Howe swaps the wingers round occasionally but my point is that the default option should be that they play on their natural wing and then swap for a brief period in the game to mix it up – not the other way round. I remember when Daniels was out for a while last season and Ritchie had to play at left back. In the game at MK Dons he put in a couple of superb crosses with pace from the left that we just never get to see any more because of this insistence on playing opposite wings. It’s mainly only justified to play on your ‘wrong’ wing if you score or create a lot of goals by doing so, like Gareth Bale. Our guys don’t do that so we should try things the other way round…[/p][/quote]I agree totally, as wingers the idea is to whip the ball in early or beat the full back and deliver a cross, not to beat the defender then head back on yourself to cross it, the early ball is usually the best and most dangerous one and the one the centre backs find hardest to defend, Pugh on the right for me and Ritchie on the left[/p][/quote]Let's hope Eddie's reading! talbotruss
  • Score: 0

2:36pm Wed 19 Mar 14

Cherryfan says...

I wonder sometimes if our coaching is biased towards not losing as opposed to winning sometimes. Our management duo were both very proficient defenders in their day and the way the team is set up more often than not reflects a cautious approach. I wonder if Eddie could do with a different partner, one who had a attacking pedigree if the past might help us recognise earlier when our tactics should be adjusted? Just my thoughts, very happy where we are in the division but thinking about next year when we will want to make the next step up.
I wonder sometimes if our coaching is biased towards not losing as opposed to winning sometimes. Our management duo were both very proficient defenders in their day and the way the team is set up more often than not reflects a cautious approach. I wonder if Eddie could do with a different partner, one who had a attacking pedigree if the past might help us recognise earlier when our tactics should be adjusted? Just my thoughts, very happy where we are in the division but thinking about next year when we will want to make the next step up. Cherryfan
  • Score: 4

2:55pm Wed 19 Mar 14

coops1965cherry says...

My word this one has run further than it should but that is why we love our football and indeed our beloved Cherries.

After all is said and done it is just a defeat that we are all disappointed with but like I said keep it in perspective, Eddy is still experimenting and he is in a luxurious position because we are probably safe and cruising to a mid table position !

We are still a team in the making,learning and in Eddy's words " tinkering " along the way so there are going to be slip ups and hopefully we will learn from these. In Eddy we trust.

I STILL WANT 2 UP FRONT THOUGH :)

U T C I A D.
My word this one has run further than it should but that is why we love our football and indeed our beloved Cherries. After all is said and done it is just a defeat that we are all disappointed with but like I said keep it in perspective, Eddy is still experimenting and he is in a luxurious position because we are probably safe and cruising to a mid table position ! We are still a team in the making,learning and in Eddy's words " tinkering " along the way so there are going to be slip ups and hopefully we will learn from these. In Eddy we trust. I STILL WANT 2 UP FRONT THOUGH :) U T C I A D. coops1965cherry
  • Score: 3

3:28pm Wed 19 Mar 14

NM Exile says...

smhinto wrote:
coops1965cherry wrote:
Afcb-AJ wrote: I have to agree O'kane is to deep he needs to drop surman who wont put a tackle in and lay o'kane level with arter, and have some one up top with grabs as he is burning out at a rapid rate ! wonder what happened to Ritchie ?
Find it hard to disagree with that, O'kane is wasted that deep, he is much more effective further forward with Arter as a midfield pair and Surman as you say rarely inspires. We need to get back to a solid 4-4-2 as you say Graban is going to be knackered before long he needs a strike partner up top just like Yan. U T C I A D.
Playing a 4-4-2 is dependant on how the opposition have set up (formation). We may need to change our formation and shape to counter-act the opposition on a game by game basis. On a scouting report the first thing one notes is the shape and formation of a side and any changes in formation when subs are made etc. This is important to a manager as he can factor this in with his team selection. I am sure that AFCB are no different.
.
For example, if the opposition in any given game have packed the midfield or play five in midfield then playing 4-4-2 against them would not be a good idea.

Fortunately we are now more flexible with Kermorgant up front as he gives us options of which we did'nt have before his arrival.

Regards
Credit where credit’s due Smhinto... would go as far as to say that is your post of the season!
[quote][p][bold]smhinto[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]coops1965cherry[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Afcb-AJ[/bold] wrote: I have to agree O'kane is to deep he needs to drop surman who wont put a tackle in and lay o'kane level with arter, and have some one up top with grabs as he is burning out at a rapid rate ! wonder what happened to Ritchie ?[/p][/quote]Find it hard to disagree with that, O'kane is wasted that deep, he is much more effective further forward with Arter as a midfield pair and Surman as you say rarely inspires. We need to get back to a solid 4-4-2 as you say Graban is going to be knackered before long he needs a strike partner up top just like Yan. U T C I A D.[/p][/quote]Playing a 4-4-2 is dependant on how the opposition have set up (formation). We may need to change our formation and shape to counter-act the opposition on a game by game basis. On a scouting report the first thing one notes is the shape and formation of a side and any changes in formation when subs are made etc. This is important to a manager as he can factor this in with his team selection. I am sure that AFCB are no different. . For example, if the opposition in any given game have packed the midfield or play five in midfield then playing 4-4-2 against them would not be a good idea. Fortunately we are now more flexible with Kermorgant up front as he gives us options of which we did'nt have before his arrival. Regards[/p][/quote]Credit where credit’s due Smhinto... would go as far as to say that is your post of the season! NM Exile
  • Score: 3

4:23pm Wed 19 Mar 14

nonnogeppetto says...

Congratulations to one and all for the positive, thought provoking balanced and above all without name calling posted comments on here following the disappointing loss last night. It goes to show that when people put the mind to it there is no need to insult each other and share opinions
Congratulations to one and all for the positive, thought provoking balanced and above all without name calling posted comments on here following the disappointing loss last night. It goes to show that when people put the mind to it there is no need to insult each other and share opinions nonnogeppetto
  • Score: 1

4:24pm Wed 19 Mar 14

mossy 1 says...

talbotruss wrote:
abc100 wrote:
talbotruss wrote:
abc100 wrote:
smhinto wrote:
talbotruss wrote: Some good comments about our formation, style and players here so I thought I'd just add my observations. It does seem obvious to me that while 4-5-1 has been quite a good formation for us in recent months, it does also restrict our scoring ability. An earlier poster stated that you need the midfielders to get up and support the striker when playing this way and it's very true but unfortunately, as was pointed out, that doesn’t really happen. I think O’Kane looks like he is energetic and naturally athletic enough to be a ‘box to box’ type player but Arter and Surman, while talented playmakers, don’t really get properly involved in helping Grabban out which is why we seem so short of goals in the 4-5-1 and it’s normally only ever Grabban who does score. To underline the point, since the 4-4-2 goalfest against Doncaster, we’ve had four games of 4-5-1. These have yielded just two goals – both for Grabban – and both were due to goalkeeping errors. The penalty against Blackpool due to a rash charge from the keeper, then Paul Robinson being beaten at his near post from a long ranger at Blackburn. We should have had the disallowed goal from Grabban (who else?) against Middlesbrough, but again, that was a keeper making a mistake. It all shows that we just don’t create or score enough chances at the moment, and possibly never really will in a 4-5-1 unless we have some different central attacking players to make it work. Surman has had a number of decent games for us but to play in his position and still not to have scored a goal all season really does make his presence in the team a little bit questionable. Of course, now Kermorgant is back, hopefully we can do 4-4-2 again and things could turn out fine, but I think it is worth supporting the theory that 4-5-1 is promoting us avoiding defeat more than it is promoting us winning games. One more question is why are we so insistent on playing the wingers on their ‘wrong’ wing? With Kermorgant in the team, it will make much more sense to play the left footed Ritchie on the left and any of Pugh/Coulibaly/Frase r on the right so the wingers can play like wingers and get some proper crosses in with their correct foot. Just a thought! Great season though. We’re not going up, we’re not going down. Let’s enjoy what’s left and see if we can improve even further for next season.
In answer to your question concerning the wide players. They are often switched around so that if one is playing on his unnatural side it will enable them to cut inside and make an angle for shooting. . It is a common tactic imposed to keep the opposition guessing and to press the oppositions full backs. . Regards
Pugh is right footed but when we attack the North stand I don't ever seem to recall him playing on our right, I understand that Ritchie as a left footed player will play on the right as he is obviously a threat cutting in and shooting, Pugh hasn't really got that threat from the left and as he likes to beat the defender 3 times before he crosses it it does give the centre backs time to back in position, plus if Pugh is crossing from the left with his right foot it's always going straight towards the keeper with little pace on it, I will stop there cos I'm getting my left&right mixed up!!!!!
To the point made about cutting in to shoot, OK I did know that but what I was trying to get at a bit more was why do we do it when it doesn’t really bring us many obvious goals from it? Ritchie had a good flurry of goals when he first came back from injury but has not scored for a long time now; likewise Pugh and Fraser. In contrast, in Kermorgant’s only start for the team, he scored three goals from crosses, all of which were supplied by players crossing the ball with their natural foot – Harte for the first goal and then Francis for the next two. Shouldn’t that make it crystal clear that if the full backs can do this role then perhaps our wingers ought to be doing it too? I know Howe swaps the wingers round occasionally but my point is that the default option should be that they play on their natural wing and then swap for a brief period in the game to mix it up – not the other way round. I remember when Daniels was out for a while last season and Ritchie had to play at left back. In the game at MK Dons he put in a couple of superb crosses with pace from the left that we just never get to see any more because of this insistence on playing opposite wings. It’s mainly only justified to play on your ‘wrong’ wing if you score or create a lot of goals by doing so, like Gareth Bale. Our guys don’t do that so we should try things the other way round…
I agree totally, as wingers the idea is to whip the ball in early or beat the full back and deliver a cross, not to beat the defender then head back on yourself to cross it, the early ball is usually the best and most dangerous one and the one the centre backs find hardest to defend, Pugh on the right for me and Ritchie on the left
Let's hope Eddie's reading!
I seem to recall somewhere(I think Solent covered it after people questioned this tactic)that it is the players themselves that actually prefer to play this system.
[quote][p][bold]talbotruss[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]abc100[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]talbotruss[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]abc100[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]smhinto[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]talbotruss[/bold] wrote: Some good comments about our formation, style and players here so I thought I'd just add my observations. It does seem obvious to me that while 4-5-1 has been quite a good formation for us in recent months, it does also restrict our scoring ability. An earlier poster stated that you need the midfielders to get up and support the striker when playing this way and it's very true but unfortunately, as was pointed out, that doesn’t really happen. I think O’Kane looks like he is energetic and naturally athletic enough to be a ‘box to box’ type player but Arter and Surman, while talented playmakers, don’t really get properly involved in helping Grabban out which is why we seem so short of goals in the 4-5-1 and it’s normally only ever Grabban who does score. To underline the point, since the 4-4-2 goalfest against Doncaster, we’ve had four games of 4-5-1. These have yielded just two goals – both for Grabban – and both were due to goalkeeping errors. The penalty against Blackpool due to a rash charge from the keeper, then Paul Robinson being beaten at his near post from a long ranger at Blackburn. We should have had the disallowed goal from Grabban (who else?) against Middlesbrough, but again, that was a keeper making a mistake. It all shows that we just don’t create or score enough chances at the moment, and possibly never really will in a 4-5-1 unless we have some different central attacking players to make it work. Surman has had a number of decent games for us but to play in his position and still not to have scored a goal all season really does make his presence in the team a little bit questionable. Of course, now Kermorgant is back, hopefully we can do 4-4-2 again and things could turn out fine, but I think it is worth supporting the theory that 4-5-1 is promoting us avoiding defeat more than it is promoting us winning games. One more question is why are we so insistent on playing the wingers on their ‘wrong’ wing? With Kermorgant in the team, it will make much more sense to play the left footed Ritchie on the left and any of Pugh/Coulibaly/Frase r on the right so the wingers can play like wingers and get some proper crosses in with their correct foot. Just a thought! Great season though. We’re not going up, we’re not going down. Let’s enjoy what’s left and see if we can improve even further for next season.[/p][/quote]In answer to your question concerning the wide players. They are often switched around so that if one is playing on his unnatural side it will enable them to cut inside and make an angle for shooting. . It is a common tactic imposed to keep the opposition guessing and to press the oppositions full backs. . Regards[/p][/quote]Pugh is right footed but when we attack the North stand I don't ever seem to recall him playing on our right, I understand that Ritchie as a left footed player will play on the right as he is obviously a threat cutting in and shooting, Pugh hasn't really got that threat from the left and as he likes to beat the defender 3 times before he crosses it it does give the centre backs time to back in position, plus if Pugh is crossing from the left with his right foot it's always going straight towards the keeper with little pace on it, I will stop there cos I'm getting my left&right mixed up!!!!![/p][/quote]To the point made about cutting in to shoot, OK I did know that but what I was trying to get at a bit more was why do we do it when it doesn’t really bring us many obvious goals from it? Ritchie had a good flurry of goals when he first came back from injury but has not scored for a long time now; likewise Pugh and Fraser. In contrast, in Kermorgant’s only start for the team, he scored three goals from crosses, all of which were supplied by players crossing the ball with their natural foot – Harte for the first goal and then Francis for the next two. Shouldn’t that make it crystal clear that if the full backs can do this role then perhaps our wingers ought to be doing it too? I know Howe swaps the wingers round occasionally but my point is that the default option should be that they play on their natural wing and then swap for a brief period in the game to mix it up – not the other way round. I remember when Daniels was out for a while last season and Ritchie had to play at left back. In the game at MK Dons he put in a couple of superb crosses with pace from the left that we just never get to see any more because of this insistence on playing opposite wings. It’s mainly only justified to play on your ‘wrong’ wing if you score or create a lot of goals by doing so, like Gareth Bale. Our guys don’t do that so we should try things the other way round…[/p][/quote]I agree totally, as wingers the idea is to whip the ball in early or beat the full back and deliver a cross, not to beat the defender then head back on yourself to cross it, the early ball is usually the best and most dangerous one and the one the centre backs find hardest to defend, Pugh on the right for me and Ritchie on the left[/p][/quote]Let's hope Eddie's reading![/p][/quote]I seem to recall somewhere(I think Solent covered it after people questioned this tactic)that it is the players themselves that actually prefer to play this system. mossy 1
  • Score: 1

4:38pm Wed 19 Mar 14

golfer33 says...

We dont play 4-5-1, we play 4-1-4-1, problem is we have no one who can get in the box as Grabbans best work as our only forward is done running into spaces out wide. I would prefer to see Jann up front with TK and Grabban playing off him. The goals would fly in. But Howe likes safety first.
We dont play 4-5-1, we play 4-1-4-1, problem is we have no one who can get in the box as Grabbans best work as our only forward is done running into spaces out wide. I would prefer to see Jann up front with TK and Grabban playing off him. The goals would fly in. But Howe likes safety first. golfer33
  • Score: 2

6:14pm Wed 19 Mar 14

Rotterdam says...

golfer33 wrote:
We dont play 4-5-1, we play 4-1-4-1, problem is we have no one who can get in the box as Grabbans best work as our only forward is done running into spaces out wide. I would prefer to see Jann up front with TK and Grabban playing off him. The goals would fly in. But Howe likes safety first.
With three up front, they'd certainly fly in. What worries me is which end they'd fly in at!
[quote][p][bold]golfer33[/bold] wrote: We dont play 4-5-1, we play 4-1-4-1, problem is we have no one who can get in the box as Grabbans best work as our only forward is done running into spaces out wide. I would prefer to see Jann up front with TK and Grabban playing off him. The goals would fly in. But Howe likes safety first.[/p][/quote]With three up front, they'd certainly fly in. What worries me is which end they'd fly in at! Rotterdam
  • Score: 1

7:03pm Wed 19 Mar 14

golfer33 says...

Rotterdam wrote:
golfer33 wrote:
We dont play 4-5-1, we play 4-1-4-1, problem is we have no one who can get in the box as Grabbans best work as our only forward is done running into spaces out wide. I would prefer to see Jann up front with TK and Grabban playing off him. The goals would fly in. But Howe likes safety first.
With three up front, they'd certainly fly in. What worries me is which end they'd fly in at!
What a negative thing to say, we are safe and have nothing to lose. Our defence i better than you think. Its better than watching the boring matches we have been playing lately. I would drop Pugh and Surman to make a 4-3-3.
[quote][p][bold]Rotterdam[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]golfer33[/bold] wrote: We dont play 4-5-1, we play 4-1-4-1, problem is we have no one who can get in the box as Grabbans best work as our only forward is done running into spaces out wide. I would prefer to see Jann up front with TK and Grabban playing off him. The goals would fly in. But Howe likes safety first.[/p][/quote]With three up front, they'd certainly fly in. What worries me is which end they'd fly in at![/p][/quote]What a negative thing to say, we are safe and have nothing to lose. Our defence i better than you think. Its better than watching the boring matches we have been playing lately. I would drop Pugh and Surman to make a 4-3-3. golfer33
  • Score: 0

8:08pm Wed 19 Mar 14

gtd says...

Two wins with two strikers; then two games with no goals with one up front.
Why isn't the solution obvious to Eddie?
Two wins with two strikers; then two games with no goals with one up front. Why isn't the solution obvious to Eddie? gtd
  • Score: 3

7:33pm Thu 20 Mar 14

firstpastthepost says...

gtd wrote:
Two wins with two strikers; then two games with no goals with one up front.
Why isn't the solution obvious to Eddie?
too stubborn
[quote][p][bold]gtd[/bold] wrote: Two wins with two strikers; then two games with no goals with one up front. Why isn't the solution obvious to Eddie?[/p][/quote]too stubborn firstpastthepost
  • Score: -1

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