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Support for moves to toughen cannabis law
A BOURNEMOUTH MP has backed a decision to toughen the cannabis laws after witnessing first-hand the "tragic effects" of the drug.
Following Home Secretary Jacqui Smith's announcement that the drug must be upgraded from Class C to Class B, Sir John Butterfill told the Daily Echo: "I am absolutely convinced that cannabis use leads to mental illness.
"I know of two families where young people have ended up in mental institutions as a result of taking cannabis.
"It is absolutely tragic for them and their families; all their lives have been ruined. Some experts say cannabis is not addictive but I have seen the terrible damage it can do. I would back any moves which will prevent other families having to suffer the same heartache."
The Bournemouth West MP spoke out after the Home Secretary defied the government's own experts and annouced that laws on cannabis would be toughened up.
The move came despite the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs (ACMD) concluding that the health dangers from cannabis did not justify its inclusion in the higher category.
A report from the group said scientific evidence pointed to a "probable, but weak, casual link between psychotic illness, including schizophrenia and cannabis use".
But Dr Nigel Cowley, a Bournemouth councillor and GP at the Denmark Road medical centre, said he saw a number of patients who have become acutely psychotic through prolonged cannabis use.
"We need to send as strong a message as we can to say this is a dangerous drug that needs to be controlled," he said. "There's a perception that cannabis does very little harm but it is particularly dangerous to young, growing minds."
And West Moors GP and local British Medical Association representative Dr Tom McKinstry said: "I would certainly back this move; I'm convinced that cannabis is a mind-altering drug.
"I do quite a lot of mental health work and there is no doubt that cannabis is a major trigger for mental illness. Frequently people have to be sectioned under the Mental Health Act.
"I see the effects of cannabis on a daily basis and think it was a mistake to downgrade it in the first place."
Bournemouth East MP Tobias Ellwood said he also welcomed the reclassification.
"We are in favour of that but what we are not in favour of is the dithering associated with the government's position on drugs. It's forever changing and sends out a dangerous message."
7:00pm Wednesday 7th May 2008
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CommentPosted by: Back Of The Net, Boscombe on 7:44pm Wed 7 May 08
Our drug laws have failed for over 50 years, so the best thing to do would be:
The same!
You can't move in casualty on a Friday or Saturday night from people who've injured themselves laughing too much or choked on chocolate hobnobs.
Now, which tabloid bandwagon to jump on next?
Our drug laws have failed for over 50 years, so the best thing to do would be:
The same!
You can't move in casualty on a Friday or Saturday night from people who've injured themselves laughing too much or choked on chocolate hobnobs.
Now, which tabloid bandwagon to jump on next?
Posted by: Mike Pickering, Bournemouth on 7:59pm Wed 7 May 08
So, despite gathering together a crack team of experts on the subject of drug harm and the law - people that have between them hundreds of years at the very leading edge of their field - the best minds in the country, someone with more power than judgement has ignored this and gone ahead and decided that they are wrong.
In what other arena would such behavior be tolerated ?
Did NASA Senior Management or even the politicians of the day, as they prepared the Saturn V rocket and Apolla crafts to take people to the moon and back gather together the leading minds in aeronautical and astronautical engineering, get them to draw up plans, build machinery, design equipment, make endless seemingly magical caluclations - then - look at it all, and go 'nah - we think it should have a big round bit here, and maybe some extra wheels..'.
No.
They understood that those people were indeed 'experts', and that they held the knowledge necessary to get things done.
Where the hell will this end ??
Professor Sir Michael Rawlins is the Chairman of the ACMD and is an Honorary Professor at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, University of London, and Emeritus Professor at the University of Newcastle upon Tyne.
However his 30 years of research and study into the subject PALES into insignificance when faced with the intellectual and academic genius of a local MP, or councillor.
How could we be so wrong as to put our faith in the wisdom of experts ?
Heck - next time we need a new bridge built, and economy revitalising, cancer curing, world poverty ending or peace on earth for eternity with hope and properity for all - forget years of useless studying, the endless dialog, the sacrifice and the brilliance that we've come to rely on - just phone up a local councillor and ask him what to think. Who knows - he may have spoken to someone who knows something about it, and hey presto - problem solved.
I guess all those oity professors and that will be lining up at the benefits office pretty soon then, eh ?
So, despite gathering together a crack team of experts on the subject of drug harm and the law - people that have between them hundreds of years at the very leading edge of their field - the best minds in the country, someone with more power than judgement has ignored this and gone ahead and decided that they are wrong.
In what other arena would such behavior be tolerated ?
Did NASA Senior Management or even the politicians of the day, as they prepared the Saturn V rocket and Apolla crafts to take people to the moon and back gather together the leading minds in aeronautical and astronautical engineering, get them to draw up plans, build machinery, design equipment, make endless seemingly magical caluclations - then - look at it all, and go 'nah - we think it should have a big round bit here, and maybe some extra wheels..'.
No.
They understood that those people were indeed 'experts', and that they held the knowledge necessary to get things done.
Where the hell will this end ??
Professor Sir Michael Rawlins is the Chairman of the ACMD and is an Honorary Professor at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, University of London, and Emeritus Professor at the University of Newcastle upon Tyne.
However his 30 years of research and study into the subject PALES into insignificance when faced with the intellectual and academic genius of a local MP, or councillor.
How could we be so wrong as to put our faith in the wisdom of experts ?
Heck - next time we need a new bridge built, and economy revitalising, cancer curing, world poverty ending or peace on earth for eternity with hope and properity for all - forget years of useless studying, the endless dialog, the sacrifice and the brilliance that we've come to rely on - just phone up a local councillor and ask him what to think. Who knows - he may have spoken to someone who knows something about it, and hey presto - problem solved.
I guess all those oity professors and that will be lining up at the benefits office pretty soon then, eh ?
Posted by: PokesdownMark, Pokesdown on 9:40pm Wed 7 May 08
Seems the whole classification system is pretty poor anyway... http://news.bbc.co.u
k/1/hi/health/647405
3.stm
which is a shame because it directs how we fight the illegal drug trade. Which I guess explains why we are doing so badly in that.
Seems the whole classification system is pretty poor anyway... http://news.bbc.co.u
k/1/hi/health/647405
3.stm
which is a shame because it directs how we fight the illegal drug trade. Which I guess explains why we are doing so badly in that.
Posted by: Mike Pickering, Bournemouth on 10:01pm Wed 7 May 08
..what rubbish, Mark - the body set up to examine the drug classifications consists of "a team led by Professor David Nutt, from the University of Bristol, and Professor Colin Blakemore, chief executive of the Medical Research Council."
Pfft...more experts, with their elitist 'research' and 'latest ideas based on evidence and thorough understanding'.
We should discount their findings immediately and base our legislation on what the Sun says, or if we're feeling really responsible maybe phone the town hall and see what they've come up with.
..what rubbish, Mark - the body set up to examine the drug classifications consists of "a team led by Professor David Nutt, from the University of Bristol, and Professor Colin Blakemore, chief executive of the Medical Research Council."
Pfft...more experts, with their elitist 'research' and 'latest ideas based on evidence and thorough understanding'.
We should discount their findings immediately and base our legislation on what the Sun says, or if we're feeling really responsible maybe phone the town hall and see what they've come up with.
Posted by: scorpio3, dorset on 11:08pm Wed 7 May 08
We dont need experts or MPS to tell us about the harm cannabis does to our children, just look into their blood shot eyes, listen to them coughing ,see their lack of enthusiasm for life.They look like zombies.At last the goverment is in touch with our youth.Now all they have to do is reclassify acohol,upgrade it to A. ZOMBIES OR VIOLENT THUGS which do we prefer...
We dont need experts or MPS to tell us about the harm cannabis does to our children, just look into their blood shot eyes, listen to them coughing ,see their lack of enthusiasm for life.They look like zombies.At last the goverment is in touch with our youth.Now all they have to do is reclassify acohol,upgrade it to A. ZOMBIES OR VIOLENT THUGS which do we prefer...
Posted by: Mike Pickering, Bournemouth on 3:56am Thu 8 May 08
Children should never have access to alcohol, cannabis or any other drugs unless for medical requirements as issued by a state-approval medical professional. An expert, if you will.
Grown adults, who are responsible for themselves and others, who assemble and elect representatives of and for them, do so with a reasonable expectation that when an issue arises upon which action and legislation is required, that those best in the position to offer the facts and make expert recommendations about it do NOT have their advice ignored for the sake of politics and public relations ESPECIALLY when that matter is in regard to a public health issue.
It's very simple - MPs and politicians work FOR us, on OUR behalf, and we expect them to make decisions based on the best available advice, testimony or evidence, and clearly that has not happened in this case.
I sincerely hope that the other recommendations of the ACMD (of which classification was no.3) are heeded, as they present the only reasonable path forward through this complex and hopelessly politicised issue, which I as a non-cannabis smoking parent demand to see taken responsibly for the sake of mine, and everybody else's children.
Children should never have access to alcohol, cannabis or any other drugs unless for medical requirements as issued by a state-approval medical professional. An expert, if you will.
Grown adults, who are responsible for themselves and others, who assemble and elect representatives of and for them, do so with a reasonable expectation that when an issue arises upon which action and legislation is required, that those best in the position to offer the facts and make expert recommendations about it do NOT have their advice ignored for the sake of politics and public relations ESPECIALLY when that matter is in regard to a public health issue.
It's very simple - MPs and politicians work FOR us, on OUR behalf, and we expect them to make decisions based on the best available advice, testimony or evidence, and clearly that has not happened in this case.
I sincerely hope that the other recommendations of the ACMD (of which classification was no.3) are heeded, as they present the only reasonable path forward through this complex and hopelessly politicised issue, which I as a non-cannabis smoking parent demand to see taken responsibly for the sake of mine, and everybody else's children.
Posted by: HAL101, Bournemouth on 11:23am Thu 8 May 08
Mike Pickering, Bournemouth on 7:59pm Wed 7 May 08
I read with interest your defence of the [italic]medical establishment's right to decide on the use of cannabis[/italic] and it's use in society (which I fully agree with) but you did not clearly define what that view is, and it would be interesting to know.
It is probable that the 'someone with more power than judgement' is [italic]taking into consideration commercial interests[/italic] such as the tobacco ‘industry’, which, I believe, [italic]contributes considerably to various political power groups[/italic] . Cannabis is a competitor to tobacco and could very easily wipe it out. As people can grow their own cannabis, there is [italic]no money to be made from it by the commercial interests.[/italic]
[bold]Drugs - Restrictions by Law[/bold]
There is a commonly held long term belief that drugs and alcohol are [italic]a major cause of mental ill health[/italic] , anti-social behaviour and crime, and hence [italic]regulation by law will solve the problem[/italic] . Especially for alcohol.
But consider this if you will. These drugs are taken to alleviate powerful forces in a person that they are unable to control. i.e. stress. A [italic]happy, healthy, and motivated person does not need or take drugs[/italic] . Perhaps it is these powerful forces that are the root cause of the mental illness and crimes.
Thus I make the point that drugs (so easy to blame it on this) are not the cause, but an ‘effect’ - of the same cause that results in the effect of ill health and crime. Or to put it more clearly....
[italic]Unrecognised causes = effects of drug taking + mental ill health + anti-social behaviour + crime + etc etc.[/italic]
I would suggest that some of the causes are unregulated reproduction with little or no attempt to ensure a good parent or worth while place in society for every child, a lack of education in parenting, a lack of suitable male role models for boys and too often an unsuitable role model for girls, appalling media guidance and examples, such as music, violent films and computer games. etc. etc.
But the cause with the most impact, I believe, is the [italic]lack of suitable worthwhile and rewarding livelihoods and livings (jobs[/italic] ). Young people who watch the lives of the adults around them [italic]are not likely to want to follow their example[/italic] , whether it is of unremitting poverty in a minimum wage job, or a high stress heart and mind bursting high flying career.
Looking around me today, the advice I give to young people is - forget the education, career, love and marriage, and a family, and eventual ill health or early death. The only thing worth going for is......
FINANCIAL INDEPENDANCE OF WORK.
Until you have this you are not free, but a form of serf, and a serf’s life is not worth the living.
This, I believe, is the cause with the most impact, and it is why so many go for the DSS ticket out of the workplace, [bold]via drugs[/bold] , crime (especially random assaults and murder) obesity, (and other health problems) [bold]mental problems[/bold] , and for a woman - dare I write this? - pregnancy (DSS meal ticket and home) or marriage to a rich man.
To just pass laws to control the use of drugs is to [italic]ignore the root causes of the use[/italic] , and the problem will continue, as it always has in the past.
Mike Pickering, Bournemouth on 7:59pm Wed 7 May 08
I read with interest your defence of the
medical establishment's right to decide on the use of cannabis and it's use in society (which I fully agree with) but you did not clearly define what that view is, and it would be interesting to know.
It is probable that the 'someone with more power than judgement' is
taking into consideration commercial interests such as the tobacco ‘industry’, which, I believe,
contributes considerably to various political power groups . Cannabis is a competitor to tobacco and could very easily wipe it out. As people can grow their own cannabis, there is
no money to be made from it by the commercial interests.
Drugs - Restrictions by Law
There is a commonly held long term belief that drugs and alcohol are
a major cause of mental ill health , anti-social behaviour and crime, and hence
regulation by law will solve the problem . Especially for alcohol.
But consider this if you will. These drugs are taken to alleviate powerful forces in a person that they are unable to control. i.e. stress. A
happy, healthy, and motivated person does not need or take drugs . Perhaps it is these powerful forces that are the root cause of the mental illness and crimes.
Thus I make the point that drugs (so easy to blame it on this) are not the cause, but an ‘effect’ - of the same cause that results in the effect of ill health and crime. Or to put it more clearly....
Unrecognised causes = effects of drug taking + mental ill health + anti-social behaviour + crime + etc etc.
I would suggest that some of the causes are unregulated reproduction with little or no attempt to ensure a good parent or worth while place in society for every child, a lack of education in parenting, a lack of suitable male role models for boys and too often an unsuitable role model for girls, appalling media guidance and examples, such as music, violent films and computer games. etc. etc.
But the cause with the most impact, I believe, is the
lack of suitable worthwhile and rewarding livelihoods and livings (jobs ). Young people who watch the lives of the adults around them
are not likely to want to follow their example , whether it is of unremitting poverty in a minimum wage job, or a high stress heart and mind bursting high flying career.
Looking around me today, the advice I give to young people is - forget the education, career, love and marriage, and a family, and eventual ill health or early death. The only thing worth going for is......
FINANCIAL INDEPENDANCE OF WORK.
Until you have this you are not free, but a form of serf, and a serf’s life is not worth the living.
This, I believe, is the cause with the most impact, and it is why so many go for the DSS ticket out of the workplace,
via drugs , crime (especially random assaults and murder) obesity, (and other health problems)
mental problems , and for a woman - dare I write this? - pregnancy (DSS meal ticket and home) or marriage to a rich man.
To just pass laws to control the use of drugs is to
ignore the root causes of the use , and the problem will continue, as it always has in the past.
Posted by: Mark, Bournemouth on 11:39am Thu 8 May 08
[quote][bold]Mike Pickering[/bold] wrote:
So, despite gathering together a crack team of experts on the subject of drug harm and the law - people that have between them hundreds of years at the very leading edge of their field - the best minds in the country, someone with more power than judgement has ignored this and gone ahead and decided that they are wrong. In what other arena would such behavior be tolerated ? Did NASA Senior Management or even the politicians of the day, as they prepared the Saturn V rocket and Apolla crafts to take people to the moon and back gather together the leading minds in aeronautical and astronautical engineering, get them to draw up plans, build machinery, design equipment, make endless seemingly magical caluclations - then - look at it all, and go 'nah - we think it should have a big round bit here, and maybe some extra wheels..'. No. They understood that those people were indeed 'experts', and that they held the knowledge necessary to get things done. Where the hell will this end ?? Professor Sir Michael Rawlins is the Chairman of the ACMD and is an Honorary Professor at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, University of London, and Emeritus Professor at the University of Newcastle upon Tyne. However his 30 years of research and study into the subject PALES into insignificance when faced with the intellectual and academic genius of a local MP, or councillor. How could we be so wrong as to put our faith in the wisdom of experts ? Heck - next time we need a new bridge built, and economy revitalising, cancer curing, world poverty ending or peace on earth for eternity with hope and properity for all - forget years of useless studying, the endless dialog, the sacrifice and the brilliance that we've come to rely on - just phone up a local councillor and ask him what to think. Who knows - he may have spoken to someone who knows something about it, and hey presto - problem solved. I guess all those oity professors and that will be lining up at the benefits office pretty soon then, eh ? [/quote] Fair comment, but to take this further eminent groups of scientists are now bribed into finding the result their government paymasters want to hear - Think Global (not actually) Warming - taxes, taxes, taxes.
As for the drugs issue as long as the media continue to be free publicity machines for the likes of Whinehouse and Docherty what hope for the average kid who regards them both as heros.
In respect of NASA, did we really go the Moon in the sixties or was it cold war propoganda (spin today) ?
Mike Pickering wrote:
So, despite gathering together a crack team of experts on the subject of drug harm and the law - people that have between them hundreds of years at the very leading edge of their field - the best minds in the country, someone with more power than judgement has ignored this and gone ahead and decided that they are wrong. In what other arena would such behavior be tolerated ? Did NASA Senior Management or even the politicians of the day, as they prepared the Saturn V rocket and Apolla crafts to take people to the moon and back gather together the leading minds in aeronautical and astronautical engineering, get them to draw up plans, build machinery, design equipment, make endless seemingly magical caluclations - then - look at it all, and go 'nah - we think it should have a big round bit here, and maybe some extra wheels..'. No. They understood that those people were indeed 'experts', and that they held the knowledge necessary to get things done. Where the hell will this end ?? Professor Sir Michael Rawlins is the Chairman of the ACMD and is an Honorary Professor at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, University of London, and Emeritus Professor at the University of Newcastle upon Tyne. However his 30 years of research and study into the subject PALES into insignificance when faced with the intellectual and academic genius of a local MP, or councillor. How could we be so wrong as to put our faith in the wisdom of experts ? Heck - next time we need a new bridge built, and economy revitalising, cancer curing, world poverty ending or peace on earth for eternity with hope and properity for all - forget years of useless studying, the endless dialog, the sacrifice and the brilliance that we've come to rely on - just phone up a local councillor and ask him what to think. Who knows - he may have spoken to someone who knows something about it, and hey presto - problem solved. I guess all those oity professors and that will be lining up at the benefits office pretty soon then, eh ?
Fair comment, but to take this further eminent groups of scientists are now bribed into finding the result their government paymasters want to hear - Think Global (not actually) Warming - taxes, taxes, taxes.
As for the drugs issue as long as the media continue to be free publicity machines for the likes of Whinehouse and Docherty what hope for the average kid who regards them both as heros.
In respect of NASA, did we really go the Moon in the sixties or was it cold war propoganda (spin today) ?
Posted by: Tru Bella on 12:11pm Thu 8 May 08
Keep smoking the funnyfags, you lot on here will soon be on the moon, by the sounds of it your nearly there.
Keep smoking the funnyfags, you lot on here will soon be on the moon, by the sounds of it your nearly there.
Posted by: Carl Barron, Dorset on 2:38pm Thu 8 May 08
We must consider the facts that certain forms of Cannabis are more harmful than others such as Skunk, etc.
There are many in our society [bold]who are disabled due mainly to pain.[/bold] Are we to [bold]disallow[/bold] these people a better quality of life because of [bold]narrow minds[/bold] on this subject, or are we going to reject thier needs?
Certain types of Cannabis should I believe be allowed on prescription only, whilst close monitoring of the patients progress whilst using [bold]prescribed Cannabis.[/bold]
Other Countries such as Canada, and Spain, are allowing treatments using [bold]Sativex a Cannabis extract[/bold] . Many other countries faced with the problem of many disabled not being able to fulfil thier active role in the Jobs Market being reliant upon the State. Are thinking of allowing Sativex to be used. Unlike the [bold]Backward Retarded UK Establishment[/bold] .
There needs to be a strong differential in Law, between those who use Cannabis for pleasure, and those who use Cannabis to relieve pain.
The bottom line is that UK Gov seek as always, to criminalise the public by changing the Laws.
We must consider the facts that certain forms of Cannabis are more harmful than others such as Skunk, etc.
There are many in our society
who are disabled due mainly to pain. Are we to
disallow these people a better quality of life because of
narrow minds on this subject, or are we going to reject thier needs?
Certain types of Cannabis should I believe be allowed on prescription only, whilst close monitoring of the patients progress whilst using
prescribed Cannabis.
Other Countries such as Canada, and Spain, are allowing treatments using
Sativex a Cannabis extract . Many other countries faced with the problem of many disabled not being able to fulfil thier active role in the Jobs Market being reliant upon the State. Are thinking of allowing Sativex to be used. Unlike the
Backward Retarded UK Establishment .
There needs to be a strong differential in Law, between those who use Cannabis for pleasure, and those who use Cannabis to relieve pain.
The bottom line is that UK Gov seek as always, to criminalise the public by changing the Laws.
Posted by: Mike Pickering, Bournemouth on 4:46pm Thu 8 May 08
Let's not forget that cannabis is in fact illegal for political reasons, the misuse of drugs act 1971 was bought in to be in line with the US laws which were drawn up by lobbyists of the paper industry who saw hemp as a dangerous rival to their product.
Add to this the hangover from the Puritan times that saw a singular pursuit of pleasure as immoral (the 'cannabis for pleasure' the Carl Barron notes), and cannabis use is seen as somehow 'wrong'.
It is not 'wrong', in fact it is perverse to say it is wrong to ingest some of a natural plant for the pleasant effects.
Far greater profits can be made for large private organisations whilst cannabis is illegal that if it were legal, and whilst there is indeed some interplay between those parties and the governing powers, little will change, and 14 year old kids will still be wandering round the chocolate biscuit aisles at Tescos with pink eyes.
Let's not forget that cannabis is in fact illegal for political reasons, the misuse of drugs act 1971 was bought in to be in line with the US laws which were drawn up by lobbyists of the paper industry who saw hemp as a dangerous rival to their product.
Add to this the hangover from the Puritan times that saw a singular pursuit of pleasure as immoral (the 'cannabis for pleasure' the Carl Barron notes), and cannabis use is seen as somehow 'wrong'.
It is not 'wrong', in fact it is perverse to say it is wrong to ingest some of a natural plant for the pleasant effects.
Far greater profits can be made for large private organisations whilst cannabis is illegal that if it were legal, and whilst there is indeed some interplay between those parties and the governing powers, little will change, and 14 year old kids will still be wandering round the chocolate biscuit aisles at Tescos with pink eyes.
Posted by: davey, bournemouth on 6:43pm Thu 8 May 08
I Beleive canabis to be product that is only harmful when abused, just like alcohol, sugar, pain killers and many other house hold items.
I neither approve of it being illegal nor condone using it, its one of those things that should be left to the individual and less money should be wasted on trying to stop people using it and used to treat the odd bad occurances and providing more things to do in the community so kids have something to do and dont have that first bored night where they try it and the hobby begins....
I Beleive canabis to be product that is only harmful when abused, just like alcohol, sugar, pain killers and many other house hold items.
I neither approve of it being illegal nor condone using it, its one of those things that should be left to the individual and less money should be wasted on trying to stop people using it and used to treat the odd bad occurances and providing more things to do in the community so kids have something to do and dont have that first bored night where they try it and the hobby begins....
Posted by: lamarinacf, Alicante/Bournemouth on 7:59pm Thu 8 May 08
[quote][bold]davey[/bold] wrote:
I Beleive canabis to be product that is only harmful when abused, just like alcohol, sugar, pain killers and many other house hold items.
I neither approve of it being illegal nor condone using it, its one of those things that should be left to the individual and less money should be wasted on trying to stop people using it and used to treat the odd bad occurances and providing more things to do in the community so kids have something to do and dont have that first bored night where they try it and the hobby begins....[/quote] Exactly my point in fact half the stuff you mentioned is far more worse but because it is not in a class people don't judge it from that and actually have no idea about it because it's all legal.
As mentioned, yes I use it myself but hardly at all and does no harm to me and the first time I used it was not until 18/19 not hanging around the streets at 14yrs old drinking Stella and smoking pot causing problems to innocent people. We simply sat at home had a few drinks had a smoke and watched tv or listen to music so what is the problem?
People need to wake up and smell the coffee and the real problems that go on in this country and stop being so hypercritical when they don't have a clue.
davey wrote:
I Beleive canabis to be product that is only harmful when abused, just like alcohol, sugar, pain killers and many other house hold items.
I neither approve of it being illegal nor condone using it, its one of those things that should be left to the individual and less money should be wasted on trying to stop people using it and used to treat the odd bad occurances and providing more things to do in the community so kids have something to do and dont have that first bored night where they try it and the hobby begins....
Exactly my point in fact half the stuff you mentioned is far more worse but because it is not in a class people don't judge it from that and actually have no idea about it because it's all legal.
As mentioned, yes I use it myself but hardly at all and does no harm to me and the first time I used it was not until 18/19 not hanging around the streets at 14yrs old drinking Stella and smoking pot causing problems to innocent people. We simply sat at home had a few drinks had a smoke and watched tv or listen to music so what is the problem?
People need to wake up and smell the coffee and the real problems that go on in this country and stop being so hypercritical when they don't have a clue.
Posted by: Fiona Dougherty-Price, Bournemouth on 9:05pm Thu 8 May 08
I totally agree with the MP's
Cannabis is a very dangerous drug-its a wolf in sheeps clothing
Im glad its been re classified but its a pity the police and the courts arent likely to change their attitude to offenders
Incidentally I find it amusing when people continually state
''the war on drugs is lost''
In that case
the war on rape is being lost as is the war on drunk driving
and medicine is losing the war against death...
I totally agree with the MP's
Cannabis is a very dangerous drug-its a wolf in sheeps clothing
Im glad its been re classified but its a pity the police and the courts arent likely to change their attitude to offenders
Incidentally I find it amusing when people continually state
''the war on drugs is lost''
In that case
the war on rape is being lost as is the war on drunk driving
and medicine is losing the war against death...
Posted by: Phil, Poole on 8:38am Fri 9 May 08
[quote]I totally agree with the MP's
Cannabis is a very dangerous drug-its a wolf in sheeps clothing[/quote]
As mentioned, this was a crack team of experts that decided cannabis should stay in class C. But somehow you know better?
Why have a war on cannabis at all? As with alcohol, a few people abuse it, most don't - but I don't see you calling for alcohol to be banned. I wonder why.
I think the police would prefer more restrictions on alchohol to help curb the appalling aggressive behaviour it causes on our streets - or are the trouble-makers, in fact, all cannabis louts?
I totally agree with the MP's
Cannabis is a very dangerous drug-its a wolf in sheeps clothing
As mentioned, this was a crack team of experts that decided cannabis should stay in class C. But somehow you know better?
Why have a war on cannabis at all? As with alcohol, a few people abuse it, most don't - but I don't see you calling for alcohol to be banned. I wonder why.
I think the police would prefer more restrictions on alchohol to help curb the appalling aggressive behaviour it causes on our streets - or are the trouble-makers, in fact, all cannabis louts?
Posted by: Mike Pickering, Bournemouth on 4:17pm Fri 9 May 08
I too would welcome greater restrictions on alcohol availability and sales - no alcoholic drink, beit a bottle of alcopop, a can of off-brand special brew, or a miniature bottle of vodka, should be less that 2 quid.
I would be far happier with my child using cannabis thank drinking. Especially outside the home.
However - I do not have this choice to make, politicians have made it for me, apparantly doing to bidding of people that confuse a flowering plant with wolves and sheep. And clothing.
I too would welcome greater restrictions on alcohol availability and sales - no alcoholic drink, beit a bottle of alcopop, a can of off-brand special brew, or a miniature bottle of vodka, should be less that 2 quid.
I would be far happier with my child using cannabis thank drinking. Especially outside the home.
However - I do not have this choice to make, politicians have made it for me, apparantly doing to bidding of people that confuse a flowering plant with wolves and sheep. And clothing.
Posted by: Fiona Dougherty-Price, Bournemouth on 9:22pm Fri 9 May 08
I find it quite frightening that you would condone your son/daughters use of cannabis-obviously you have no experience of or know young people who have had a cannabis induced psychosis
I think most people are aware that if alcohol was introduced today it would not be legal(it would likely be class A or class B drug)
Unfortunately we are stuck with it
Drug taking is a lazy persons way of pursuing happiness [and the shortcut most often turns out to be a dead end]
Our society loses nothing by not being (legally) permitted to smoke cannabis
I find it quite frightening that you would condone your son/daughters use of cannabis-obviously you have no experience of or know young people who have had a cannabis induced psychosis
I think most people are aware that if alcohol was introduced today it would not be legal(it would likely be class A or class B drug)
Unfortunately we are stuck with it
Drug taking is a lazy persons way of pursuing happiness
Our society loses nothing by not being (legally) permitted to smoke cannabis
Posted by: lamarinacf, Alicante/Bournemouth on 9:50pm Fri 9 May 08
[quote][bold]Fiona Dougherty-Price[/bold] wrote:
I find it quite frightening that you would condone your son/daughters use of cannabis-obviously you have no experience of or know young people who have had a cannabis induced psychosis
I think most people are aware that if alcohol was introduced today it would not be legal(it would likely be class A or class B drug)
Unfortunately we are stuck with it
Drug taking is a lazy persons way of pursuing happiness [and the shortcut most often turns out to be a dead end]
Our society loses nothing by not being (legally) permitted to smoke cannabis
[/quote] You really have no **** clue what you are talking about, **** honestly
[bold]Drug taking is a lazy persons way of pursuing happiness[/bold]
That really says everything doesn't it. Go talk to people about it and find out for yourself not what you think.
As said a million times, It's the people that abuse it like alcohol and even aspirin so what they must be made illegal now? Everything has it's ups and down and people who abuse it are the ones that suffer, illegal or legal. Either way it wont stop anything but tax payers money which a lot don't seem to understand.
Fiona Dougherty-Price wrote:
I find it quite frightening that you would condone your son/daughters use of cannabis-obviously you have no experience of or know young people who have had a cannabis induced psychosis
I think most people are aware that if alcohol was introduced today it would not be legal(it would likely be class A or class B drug)
Unfortunately we are stuck with it
Drug taking is a lazy persons way of pursuing happiness
Our society loses nothing by not being (legally) permitted to smoke cannabis
You really have no **** clue what you are talking about, **** honestly
Drug taking is a lazy persons way of pursuing happiness
That really says everything doesn't it. Go talk to people about it and find out for yourself not what you think.
As said a million times, It's the people that abuse it like alcohol and even aspirin so what they must be made illegal now? Everything has it's ups and down and people who abuse it are the ones that suffer, illegal or legal. Either way it wont stop anything but tax payers money which a lot don't seem to understand.
Posted by: Mike Pickering, Bournemouth on 4:01am Sat 10 May 08
Cannabis psychosis is a condition that can be brought on by chronic use of high-thc-containing cannabis in people who are predisposed to psychosis, and it is indeed a very unpleasant state of affairs for everyone involved. The link between cannabis and mental conditions such as this is, as the expert committee concluded (through their years of training and research), is 'probable, but weak'.
That means that although in those cases in which the 'cannabis psychosis' had presented - it was probable that the drug use was a primary factory, use of the drug itself, without the user's predisposition to the condition - would NOT cause this condition to occur.
However - if a young adult were to chug down a bottle of Tesco's vodka and collapse in a park, inhaling their own vomit and dying in their sleep depends on no other precondition than the fact that they have a stomach and lungs.
Noone is proposing that alcohol should be banned on the basis that everyday in this country several people drink to excess and die by misadventure - we take a personally responsible attitude to it and in a grown-up manner moderate our drinking, do not drink until we pass out and inhale our stomach contents or collapse and bleed to death.
Believe it or not, Fiona, the vast majority of cannabis users practise this restraint too...the average user will not stuff 2ounces of genetically altered skunk into a pipe and huff the whole lot at once, day in day out until their legs don't work and they are crippled with paranoia - but some do, and it is those people - who the vast majority of cannabis users see as ABUSING the drug, who make headlines in The Sun, and it appears now, dictate Governmental policy, and reinforce the 'opinion' of local MPs - eager to appear 'tough on drugs', whatever they think that means.
I'm afraid, Fiona - and any local MPs or councillors that are reading, that the problems associated with drug use and abuse in our society are far more complex and important than ignoring expert opinion and 35 years of failed policy can solve.
And no, I would not condone my child's use of any drug because like all parents, I do not want my child to come into contact with anything risky - it's hard enough watching them try to learn a 2-wheeled bike..
Cannabis psychosis is a condition that can be brought on by chronic use of high-thc-containing cannabis in people who are predisposed to psychosis, and it is indeed a very unpleasant state of affairs for everyone involved. The link between cannabis and mental conditions such as this is, as the expert committee concluded (through their years of training and research), is 'probable, but weak'.
That means that although in those cases in which the 'cannabis psychosis' had presented - it was probable that the drug use was a primary factory, use of the drug itself, without the user's predisposition to the condition - would NOT cause this condition to occur.
However - if a young adult were to chug down a bottle of Tesco's vodka and collapse in a park, inhaling their own vomit and dying in their sleep depends on no other precondition than the fact that they have a stomach and lungs.
Noone is proposing that alcohol should be banned on the basis that everyday in this country several people drink to excess and die by misadventure - we take a personally responsible attitude to it and in a grown-up manner moderate our drinking, do not drink until we pass out and inhale our stomach contents or collapse and bleed to death.
Believe it or not, Fiona, the vast majority of cannabis users practise this restraint too...the average user will not stuff 2ounces of genetically altered skunk into a pipe and huff the whole lot at once, day in day out until their legs don't work and they are crippled with paranoia - but some do, and it is those people - who the vast majority of cannabis users see as ABUSING the drug, who make headlines in The Sun, and it appears now, dictate Governmental policy, and reinforce the 'opinion' of local MPs - eager to appear 'tough on drugs', whatever they think that means.
I'm afraid, Fiona - and any local MPs or councillors that are reading, that the problems associated with drug use and abuse in our society are far more complex and important than ignoring expert opinion and 35 years of failed policy can solve.
And no, I would not condone my child's use of any drug because like all parents, I do not want my child to come into contact with anything risky - it's hard enough watching them try to learn a 2-wheeled bike..
Posted by: Fiona Dougherty-Price, Bournemouth on 9:42am Sat 10 May 08
I know two people who developed severe mental illness due to smoking cannabis
and also several people with severe mental illness who are addicted to cannabis (which worsens their symptoms)
Its a dangerous drug
I know two people who developed severe mental illness due to smoking cannabis
and also several people with severe mental illness who are addicted to cannabis (which worsens their symptoms)
Its a dangerous drug
Posted by: Phil, Poole on 3:18pm Sat 10 May 08
[quote][bold]Fiona Dougherty-Price[/bold] wrote:
I know two people who developed severe mental illness due to smoking cannabis
and also several people with severe mental illness who are addicted to cannabis (which worsens their symptoms)
Its a dangerous drug
[/quote] The [bold]expert[/bold] panel concluded that "to prevent one case of schizophrenia in men aged 20 to 24, about 5,000 men would have to be prevented from ever smoking cannabis".
But you still reckon know better, don't you? Perhaps it's your sickening holier-than-thou attitude that's driving your friends mad?
Fiona Dougherty-Price wrote:
I know two people who developed severe mental illness due to smoking cannabis
and also several people with severe mental illness who are addicted to cannabis (which worsens their symptoms)
Its a dangerous drug
The
expert panel concluded that "to prevent one case of schizophrenia in men aged 20 to 24, about 5,000 men would have to be prevented from ever smoking cannabis".
But you still reckon know better, don't you? Perhaps it's your sickening holier-than-thou attitude that's driving your friends mad?
Posted by: Fiona Dougherty-Price, Bournemouth on 3:29pm Sat 10 May 08
The expert panel concluded that "to prevent one case of schizophrenia in men aged 20 to 24, about 5,000 men would have to be prevented from ever smoking cannabis".
But you still reckon know better, don't you? Perhaps it's your sickening holier-than-thou attitude that's driving your friends mad?
There have been many other 'expert panels' giving their varied opinions on cannabis over the last few years
There are very real health risks associated with cannabis and it harms vulnerable people
Drugs are a mugs game
The expert panel concluded that "to prevent one case of schizophrenia in men aged 20 to 24, about 5,000 men would have to be prevented from ever smoking cannabis".
But you still reckon know better, don't you? Perhaps it's your sickening holier-than-thou attitude that's driving your friends mad?
There have been many other 'expert panels' giving their varied opinions on cannabis over the last few years
There are very real health risks associated with cannabis and it harms vulnerable people
Drugs are a mugs game
Posted by: Fiona Dougherty-Price, Bournemouth on 3:47pm Sat 10 May 08
[quote][bold]Phil[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Fiona Dougherty-Price[/bold] wrote:
I know two people who developed severe mental illness due to smoking cannabis
and also several people with severe mental illness who are addicted to cannabis (which worsens their symptoms)
Its a dangerous drug
[/quote] The [bold]expert[/bold] panel concluded that "to prevent one case of schizophrenia in men aged 20 to 24, about 5,000 men would have to be prevented from ever smoking cannabis".
But you still reckon know better, don't you? Perhaps it's your sickening holier-than-thou attitude that's driving your friends mad?[/quote] ''But you still reckon know better, don't you? Perhaps it's your sickening holier-than-thou attitude that's driving your friends mad?''
____________________
_____
Cheap shot
Phil wrote:
Fiona Dougherty-Price wrote:
I know two people who developed severe mental illness due to smoking cannabis
and also several people with severe mental illness who are addicted to cannabis (which worsens their symptoms)
Its a dangerous drug
The expert panel concluded that "to prevent one case of schizophrenia in men aged 20 to 24, about 5,000 men would have to be prevented from ever smoking cannabis".
But you still reckon know better, don't you? Perhaps it's your sickening holier-than-thou attitude that's driving your friends mad?
''But you still reckon know better, don't you? Perhaps it's your sickening holier-than-thou attitude that's driving your friends mad?''
____________________
_____
Cheap shot
Posted by: Surf8, boscombe on 7:33pm Thu 5 Jun 08
Regarding the failed war on drugs, I was wondering if anyone wanted to continue the debate or has this problem gone away all of a sudden. The illegal drugs trade is guestimated at 320 billion pound stirling per annum. Its the second largest international market in the world, second only to the arms trade, 600 billion stirling per annum. Drugs and guns rule the globle ecconomy. In my mind both industries are absoultly in the hands of killers and criminals. Something has to break, then the human spirit of tolerance and forgivness, love and peace, everyone equal and all that christian muslem moral high ground I will leave to the self rightious amoungst us. Lets limit the damage and introduce,ASAP, humain tolerant drugs polices, free us from these archain unworkable drugs laws, lets spend taxs on other more pressing issues like mental health facilities fit for the 21st century.
Regarding the failed war on drugs, I was wondering if anyone wanted to continue the debate or has this problem gone away all of a sudden. The illegal drugs trade is guestimated at 320 billion pound stirling per annum. Its the second largest international market in the world, second only to the arms trade, 600 billion stirling per annum. Drugs and guns rule the globle ecconomy. In my mind both industries are absoultly in the hands of killers and criminals. Something has to break, then the human spirit of tolerance and forgivness, love and peace, everyone equal and all that christian muslem moral high ground I will leave to the self rightious amoungst us. Lets limit the damage and introduce,ASAP, humain tolerant drugs polices, free us from these archain unworkable drugs laws, lets spend taxs on other more pressing issues like mental health facilities fit for the 21st century.
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