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Let the people decide 'pay'
LET residents and voluntary workers help decide councillors' pay'.
That's the call from Bournemouth councillor Claire Smith ahead of tomorrow's vote on an increase of up to 36 per cent.
The Lib Dem group leader wants taxpayers, voluntary workers and public sector workers to help make decisions in future. The make-up of the three-man panel which recommended the rises will be reviewed tomorrow at a full council meeting.
The current members are: Neil Tointon, chief operating officer of Abbey Life in Holdenhurst Road; Prof Paul Curran, vice chancellor of Bournemouth University; and Barry Holt, general manager of ITW Finishing UK in Ringwood. None of them could be contacted yesterday.
Councillors will get up to a 17 per cent more, cabinet members more than 30 per cent.
Cllr Smith said: "The rise is unacceptable and we're questioning the true independence of the panel - they are mostly business people."
The panel was appointed four years ago. Bournemouth council contacted members of the partnership group Bournemouth 2026, and also selected businesses.
Government rules say the council can advertise for ordinary people to get on to the panel.
Council leader Stephen MacLoughlin said the panel was selected by council officers for their understanding of running large organisations. He added: "Their decision was sensible. I don't have any argument with it. I would welcome people from the community being members of the panel when it is constituted in future."
Labour leader Cllr Ben Grower said the panel decision was fair but he wanted the increases phased in over four years.
7:00pm Tuesday 19th February 2008
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CommentPosted by: PETE WOODLEY on 7:13pm Tue 19 Feb 08
Didnt prof paul curan have problems not long ago about his own salary ?.
Didnt prof paul curan have problems not long ago about his own salary ?.
Posted by: PETE WOODLEY on 7:14pm Tue 19 Feb 08
Didnt prof paul curan have problems not long ago about his own salary ?.
Didnt prof paul curan have problems not long ago about his own salary ?.
Posted by: Geoff, Kinson on 7:37pm Tue 19 Feb 08
Well said Councillor Smith !
Well said Councillor Smith !
Posted by: sdavies, Ferndown on 8:04pm Tue 19 Feb 08
Oh, how 'noble' of Cllr MacLaughin-All-The-W
ay-To-TheBank to offer a future panel composed of lay people. By then, him and full-time 'hotelier' Beesley (and all the other snouts-in-troughs brigade) will have had their massive pay rise. A bunch of greedy boars, just like Orwell put in in [italic]Animal Farm[/italic] .
Oh, how 'noble' of Cllr MacLaughin-All-The-W
ay-To-TheBank to offer a future panel composed of lay people. By then, him and full-time 'hotelier' Beesley (and all the other snouts-in-troughs brigade) will have had their massive pay rise. A bunch of greedy boars, just like Orwell put in in
Animal Farm .
Posted by: Chris, Ensbury Park on 8:14pm Tue 19 Feb 08
This reiterates the comments I have received from Councillors in response to two emails I sent to all. Admittedly not by all, but I can say that a good number have made it known that they are not for the rises. This is either at all, or to be phased in. There was one who responded by wanting more, but that was expected I suppose.
I am in agreement that members of the public, such as taxpayers, residents etc should be part of the committee, or make up the whole committee, however, I think the latter would not be permitted, because no doubt we would vote against any rises.
If the rises were phased in over 4 years this would still mean a rise for Cabinet Councillors of between 8 and 9% per year, again some 3 to 3.5% higher than the inflation rate.
I am sending in my question for the meeting. I hope to be at the meeting if I can get back from a previous appointed engagement tomorrow in Emsworth.
No to the rise in pay and allowances. Well said to Claire Smith.
This reiterates the comments I have received from Councillors in response to two emails I sent to all. Admittedly not by all, but I can say that a good number have made it known that they are not for the rises. This is either at all, or to be phased in. There was one who responded by wanting more, but that was expected I suppose.
I am in agreement that members of the public, such as taxpayers, residents etc should be part of the committee, or make up the whole committee, however, I think the latter would not be permitted, because no doubt we would vote against any rises.
If the rises were phased in over 4 years this would still mean a rise for Cabinet Councillors of between 8 and 9% per year, again some 3 to 3.5% higher than the inflation rate.
I am sending in my question for the meeting. I hope to be at the meeting if I can get back from a previous appointed engagement tomorrow in Emsworth.
No to the rise in pay and allowances. Well said to Claire Smith.
Posted by: alumchineboy, Alumchine on 8:17pm Tue 19 Feb 08
Well done Claire Smith, you have shown that your in it for the right reasons and not just to line your pockets. People dont have a problem with fair reward for expences and meals etc, but for some councillors to have £1500 a month plus is just unreasonable and show's no respect for the residents who are feeling things financially at the moment.
Well done Claire Smith, you have shown that your in it for the right reasons and not just to line your pockets. People dont have a problem with fair reward for expences and meals etc, but for some councillors to have £1500 a month plus is just unreasonable and show's no respect for the residents who are feeling things financially at the moment.
Posted by: fedupwithjobsworths, Moordown on 8:51pm Tue 19 Feb 08
Only Bournemouth Council Tax payers should be on the panel. It's our money, we alone should decide.
Only Bournemouth Council Tax payers should be on the panel. It's our money, we alone should decide.
Posted by: Tim M, usa on 9:55pm Tue 19 Feb 08
[quote][bold]fedupwithjobsworths[/bold] wrote:
Only Bournemouth Council Tax payers should be on the panel. It's our money, we alone should decide.[/quote] Good idea. Either that, or put the matter out there for the public vote next by-election.
fedupwithjobsworths wrote:
Only Bournemouth Council Tax payers should be on the panel. It's our money, we alone should decide.
Good idea. Either that, or put the matter out there for the public vote next by-election.
Posted by: ctessex, London on 12:28am Wed 20 Feb 08
Let the public decide the pay increases but tie it to polling day or to a register of those locals who actually got up off their backside and went out to vote.
Let the public decide the pay increases but tie it to polling day or to a register of those locals who actually got up off their backside and went out to vote.
Posted by: Jayteer, Bournemouth on 12:55am Wed 20 Feb 08
Professor Paul Curran?
Now we really are in trouble.
It wasnt so long ago, when his own university rebelled against him regarding cost cutting and restructuring: And now they putting him on the chair for an important meeting like this?
Expect council tax to go up,with the number of jobsworths doubled, while primary services and areas of urgent attention get swiftly overlooked.
We are all doomed.
Professor Paul Curran?
Now we really are in trouble.
It wasnt so long ago, when his own university rebelled against him regarding cost cutting and restructuring: And now they putting him on the chair for an important meeting like this?
Expect council tax to go up,with the number of jobsworths doubled, while primary services and areas of urgent attention get swiftly overlooked.
We are all doomed.
Posted by: John, Poole on 5:04am Wed 20 Feb 08
[quote]Their decision was sensible. I don't have any argument with it.[/quote] said Council Leader Stephen MacLoughlin.
I am sure only an idiot would argue against such massive pay rises for themselves.Hang on... could this mean that the Tory Councillors will be voting against these pay rises tonight?
Pigs might fly,after they have gorged their snouts in the trough!!
Their decision was sensible. I don't have any argument with it.
said Council Leader Stephen MacLoughlin.
I am sure only an idiot would argue against such massive pay rises for themselves.Hang on... could this mean that the Tory Councillors will be voting against these pay rises tonight?
Pigs might fly,after they have gorged their snouts in the trough!!
Posted by: DemonDiva, Kinson on 6:48am Wed 20 Feb 08
"The panel was appointed four years ago. Bournemouth council contacted members of the partnership group Bournemouth 2026, and also selected businesses."
So this panel that Claire Smith is now saying are wrong was appointed by the party that were in situ four years ago. Which party was that? Ah yes, the Lib Dems. Which party is Claire Smith the leader of? Ah yes, the Lib Dems! Why is she criticising a panel that her own party put into being when they were the ones holding the power! Obviously it suits the agenda.
And don't even start me on money grabbing Macloughlin. No idealism for the town from the Tory party. Just jobs for the boys, and lining their own pockets.
"The panel was appointed four years ago. Bournemouth council contacted members of the partnership group Bournemouth 2026, and also selected businesses."
So this panel that Claire Smith is now saying are wrong was appointed by the party that were in situ four years ago. Which party was that? Ah yes, the Lib Dems. Which party is Claire Smith the leader of? Ah yes, the Lib Dems! Why is she criticising a panel that her own party put into being when they were the ones holding the power! Obviously it suits the agenda.
And don't even start me on money grabbing Macloughlin. No idealism for the town from the Tory party. Just jobs for the boys, and lining their own pockets.
Posted by: DemonDiva, Kinson on 6:49am Wed 20 Feb 08
"The panel was appointed four years ago. Bournemouth council contacted members of the partnership group Bournemouth 2026, and also selected businesses."
So this panel that Claire Smith is now saying are wrong was appointed by the party that were in situ four years ago. Which party was that? Ah yes, the Lib Dems. Which party is Claire Smith the leader of? Ah yes, the Lib Dems! Why is she criticising a panel that her own party put into being when they were the ones holding the power! Obviously it suits the agenda.
And don't even start me on money grabbing Macloughlin. No idealism for the town from the Tory party. Just jobs for the boys, and lining their own pockets.
"The panel was appointed four years ago. Bournemouth council contacted members of the partnership group Bournemouth 2026, and also selected businesses."
So this panel that Claire Smith is now saying are wrong was appointed by the party that were in situ four years ago. Which party was that? Ah yes, the Lib Dems. Which party is Claire Smith the leader of? Ah yes, the Lib Dems! Why is she criticising a panel that her own party put into being when they were the ones holding the power! Obviously it suits the agenda.
And don't even start me on money grabbing Macloughlin. No idealism for the town from the Tory party. Just jobs for the boys, and lining their own pockets.
Posted by: Vernon Crepe, Littlehampton on 8:09am Wed 20 Feb 08
Neil Tointon, chief operating officer of Abbey Life ; Prof Paul Curran, vice chancellor of Bournemouth University; and Barry Holt, general manager of ITW Finishing UK in Ringwood. I wonder what they will get/got in return for their decision? All the Councils 'Panels' allways seem to give the decision the Council wants, makes you wonder if it is all a fix and used solely as spin.
I have never known a Council so distrusted and under suspision.
Neil Tointon, chief operating officer of Abbey Life ; Prof Paul Curran, vice chancellor of Bournemouth University; and Barry Holt, general manager of ITW Finishing UK in Ringwood. I wonder what they will get/got in return for their decision? All the Councils 'Panels' allways seem to give the decision the Council wants, makes you wonder if it is all a fix and used solely as spin.
I have never known a Council so distrusted and under suspision.
Posted by: Richard Mayes, Bournemouth on 9:04am Wed 20 Feb 08
I wouldn't hold my breath over this proposal. The spirit of Derek Conway is alive and kicking amongst our local (Conservative? ) councillors.[bold]bold[/bold]
I wouldn't hold my breath over this proposal. The spirit of Derek Conway is alive and kicking amongst our local (Conservative? ) councillors.
Posted by: Richard Mayes, Bournemouth on 9:07am Wed 20 Feb 08
I wouldn't hold my breath over this proposal. The spirit of Derek Conway is alive and kicking amongst our local (Conservative? ) councillors.[bold]bold[/bold]
I wouldn't hold my breath over this proposal. The spirit of Derek Conway is alive and kicking amongst our local (Conservative? ) councillors.
Posted by: Nigel Gillespie, Bournemouth on 9:32am Wed 20 Feb 08
When you stand as a councillor you first intentions is to represent the people in your area.It seems now that this is a money making exercise with little regard for the people who elected them.The whole system needs scrapping.Agreed,min
imal expenses but not a the level we are seeing.Perhaps the way forward is to have Neighbourhood Councils made up of local people having a direct effect and impact on their neighbourhoods.Then maybe we can see the back of some of these "freeloaders" who have no interest in you or i,just the expenses.Perhaps the Echo will once again ask to see the register of attendance of councillors under the freedom of information act.
When you stand as a councillor you first intentions is to represent the people in your area.It seems now that this is a money making exercise with little regard for the people who elected them.The whole system needs scrapping.Agreed,min
imal expenses but not a the level we are seeing.Perhaps the way forward is to have Neighbourhood Councils made up of local people having a direct effect and impact on their neighbourhoods.Then maybe we can see the back of some of these "freeloaders" who have no interest in you or i,just the expenses.Perhaps the Echo will once again ask to see the register of attendance of councillors under the freedom of information act.
Posted by: Chris, Ensbury Park on 10:56am Wed 20 Feb 08
From what I have read, I think you will find that Claire Smith and others are not against the select committee, but against the amount of money being offered for the increases.
Regardless of who is in the chair, those in power would in the majority probably go for the rises, and the oppositions would argue against it. Some do some do not.
In the replies I have been getting. A mix and match of both directions, but those against like Claire Smith have emphasised on the issues of nothing happening within the town, projects being cancelled, no plans for the town, etc. Yet the Tories want more money.
In conclusion I do agree that the Council Taxpayers should make up the committee who decides on what increases should be levied.
From what I have read, I think you will find that Claire Smith and others are not against the select committee, but against the amount of money being offered for the increases.
Regardless of who is in the chair, those in power would in the majority probably go for the rises, and the oppositions would argue against it. Some do some do not.
In the replies I have been getting. A mix and match of both directions, but those against like Claire Smith have emphasised on the issues of nothing happening within the town, projects being cancelled, no plans for the town, etc. Yet the Tories want more money.
In conclusion I do agree that the Council Taxpayers should make up the committee who decides on what increases should be levied.
Posted by: Ed, Bournemouth on 12:07pm Wed 20 Feb 08
[quote]The panel was appointed four years ago. Bournemouth council contacted members of the partnership group Bournemouth 2026, and also selected businesses.[/quote]
So why after four years have they decided that councillors are underpaid and need such a big increase.
Also can someone please explain why the general manager of a Ringwood based company has had a say in how our council members are paid? Last time I looked Ringwood wasn't even in the same county as Bournemouth.
The panel was appointed four years ago. Bournemouth council contacted members of the partnership group Bournemouth 2026, and also selected businesses.
So why after four years have they decided that councillors are underpaid and need such a big increase.
Also can someone please explain why the general manager of a Ringwood based company has had a say in how our council members are paid? Last time I looked Ringwood wasn't even in the same county as Bournemouth.
Posted by: KilgoreTrout, Bournemouth on 1:00pm Wed 20 Feb 08
So much sour grapes over the last few days! – who of the comment writers would not accept an “independent” award of 17 to 36% if offered to them. ?
At least we have control [if people DO get off their backsides and vote], of who is in council.
The wage bill of our councillors pale into insignificance compared to the running costs of the myriad unelected Quangos [Regional Assemblies et al], who by their dictat are turning England into one of the least democratic countries in Europe.
So much sour grapes over the last few days! – who of the comment writers would not accept an “independent” award of 17 to 36% if offered to them. ?
At least we have control , of who is in council.
The wage bill of our councillors pale into insignificance compared to the running costs of the myriad unelected Quangos , who by their dictat are turning England into one of the least democratic countries in Europe.
Posted by: Chris, Ensbury Park on 10:14pm Wed 20 Feb 08
There are 54 Councillors in Bournemouth covering some 18 wards. Is there a need for 3 Cllrs for each ward, could this not be cut down to 2 for each ward. This would be a good saving in itself. thats £150,000 going on the minimum pay/allowances a Councillor receives per year.
[italic][bold]By KilgoreTrout: who of the comment writers would not accept an “independent” award of 17 to 36% if offered to them.[/bold] [/italic]
What company would offer a rise of 17 - 36% in the first place if the business was in such turmoil. My first thought would be to keep the business up and running, and put the money into the same to get it up and running again.
There are 54 Councillors in Bournemouth covering some 18 wards. Is there a need for 3 Cllrs for each ward, could this not be cut down to 2 for each ward. This would be a good saving in itself. thats £150,000 going on the minimum pay/allowances a Councillor receives per year.
By KilgoreTrout: who of the comment writers would not accept an “independent” award of 17 to 36% if offered to them.
What company would offer a rise of 17 - 36% in the first place if the business was in such turmoil. My first thought would be to keep the business up and running, and put the money into the same to get it up and running again.
Posted by: omegaman, Bournemouth on 9:15pm Fri 22 Feb 08
[quote][bold]alumchineboy[/bold] wrote:
Well done Claire Smith, you have shown that your in it for the right reasons and not just to line your pockets. People dont have a problem with fair reward for expences and meals etc, but for some councillors to have £1500 a month plus is just unreasonable and show's no respect for the residents who are feeling things financially at the moment. [/quote] Seem to remember that in the last Lib-Dem Council the Smith family were entityled to two basic allowances, one cabinet member allownance and the leader's allownaces.Not bad when it it was all added up.
alumchineboy wrote:
Well done Claire Smith, you have shown that your in it for the right reasons and not just to line your pockets. People dont have a problem with fair reward for expences and meals etc, but for some councillors to have £1500 a month plus is just unreasonable and show's no respect for the residents who are feeling things financially at the moment.
Seem to remember that in the last Lib-Dem Council the Smith family were entityled to two basic allowances, one cabinet member allownance and the leader's allownaces.Not bad when it it was all added up.
Posted by: BOURNEMOUTHGUY, Bournemouth on 9:04pm Fri 28 Mar 08
Please don't make me laugh. Cllr Smith hasn't a clue whats going on in her area - re gipsy site etc. The Smith family were in receipt of FIVE - YES FIVE Allowances.
1 X Leader of Council
2 X Cabinet Members
2X Councillors Allowances.
If Councillors were paid by results thn they should be paying the people of Kinson !!! I see there is a by-election coming up by the way.
Please don't make me laugh. Cllr Smith hasn't a clue whats going on in her area - re gipsy site etc. The Smith family were in receipt of FIVE - YES FIVE Allowances.
1 X Leader of Council
2 X Cabinet Members
2X Councillors Allowances.
If Councillors were paid by results thn they should be paying the people of Kinson !!! I see there is a by-election coming up by the way.
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