Council chief says sorry for extra cost of Boscombe reef project cost (From Bournemouth Echo)
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Council chief says sorry for extra cost of Boscombe reef project cost
7:49am Thursday 12th February 2009 in
A TOP council officer faced a grilling over the Boscombe Surf Reef and Spa – and apologised for part of the overspend.
The cost has spiralled by a third to £11m and last night a special scrutiny panel reluctantly backed spending another £1.8m.
The meeting heard officers tried to save money by not carrying out a structural survey of the dilapidated Overstrand building.
When work began the building was in such a bad state another £678,000 was needed to get it into shape.
Head of leisure services Roger Brown, told Bournemouth councillors: “I accept responsibility and I apologise unreservedly for this element of the project.”
He also said: “Perhaps we did cut some corners to hit the time table and we came unstuck.”
Mr Brown also apologised because the £757,000 cost of fitting out 60 ‘Surf Pods’ was not in the original budget. Twenty one of them will be leased out and the money will pay for the spiralling costs.
However, Steve Kent chair of Boscombe traders association, said: “The capital receipts from those pods might have been used for further regeneration.”
Mr Brown also admitted the project management was “too light.”
The previous project manager reached retirement age in December and had been suffering poor health.
The man behind the building of Bournemouth Pier and the BIC, Geoff Turnbull, has been brought in to finish the job with “robust” management, and a new corporate reporting structure has now been put in place. Cllr Linda Price was ‘amazed’ this was not already happening and said: “In project management this is basic stuff.”
The meeting also heard the council has been contacting other companies in case New Zealand based Construction firm ASR do not return in the spring to finish the job, which will cost up to another £346,000. The panel’s recommendation will be put before the cabinet.
Cllr Michael Everingham said: “The word hindsight has been used a lot in this meeting. But isn’t that what officers are paid for, to analyse the facts and costs before a decision?”
A motion to suspend any further payments to ASR until the contract could be renegotiated was defeated after council leader Stephen MacLoughlin warned it could put the council in breach of contract.
Comments(51)
jobsworthbotch
says...
8:14am Thu 12 Feb 09
cal people holding the purse strings!
nigel24
says...
8:18am Thu 12 Feb 09
sad old git
says...
8:20am Thu 12 Feb 09
cooperman
says...
9:38am Thu 12 Feb 09
magicmonkey
says...
9:44am Thu 12 Feb 09
They KNOW ASR are not returning, or this would not even have been mentioned!
alumchineboy2
says...
9:58am Thu 12 Feb 09
Yet again another balls-up.
How many more times will they let down the people down they are representing. As for the council workers involved in this - how are they allowed to keep their jobs ? In any other world they would have been sacked.
MoordownMarc
says...
10:29am Thu 12 Feb 09
, I went back in time there to the days of accountability in public service.
I meant to write, start negotiating for a massive golden handshake at the first sign of any official criticism or disciplinary action, leave the post, and then try for constructive dismissal at a tribunal and even more public money. On top of that of course the pension pot containing our money will remain intact regardless.
On balance then it is probably cheaper to leave the Officer where he is and let him carry on 'screwing up'!
BottomE
says...
10:47am Thu 12 Feb 09
ski
says...
10:48am Thu 12 Feb 09
pete woodley
says...
11:05am Thu 12 Feb 09
cooperman wrote:Be careful,or pam donnelan,will find you.The buck should start at the top,and she is the top,as i give my name here i now expect recriminations,even now the town hall staff put the phone down on me,despite my right to be able to contact them for information,i handed in photos of contaminated tinned meat bought from asda's,i have stiil not heard from trading standards,and asdas couldnt care less.Try leaving a phone number and expect a call back,what a joke,unless you have councillor in front of your name,they do not want to know.Some of the staff cant even take down a phone number,its too much trouble.Its high time that the residents really got going and had a BIG say.Being in ill health and back to hospital next week,has slowed me down,but I am on the warpath.
there are people on this council who ought to be prosecuted.? it wont end at 1.8 million ,believe me ,what a bunch of idiots
John T
says...
11:41am Thu 12 Feb 09
ski wrote:Have you not been watching The News this week with regard to the former Chiefs at HBOS and RBS?
So if I rob a bank today and get caught I just have to sorry and thats alright then.Off I go with the cash,hey sounds good.
WillBrown
says...
12:55pm Thu 12 Feb 09
I know I could do a better job (so could my fish), but I need to know how to get into the right position to do so.
Can anyone tell me the correct steps to become a local MP and get some of these issues sorted?
There is no point moaning about how bad things are, if you are not prepared to do some hard work to get things changed.
Email me if you would like to help.
I am 28, so I will not be retiring soon…..
Regards.
Will Brown.
will@5050publishing.
co.uk
djd
says...
1:01pm Thu 12 Feb 09
It has been a right mess from start to finish and it's not even finished.
Interestingly the Council is looking for other companies just in case the reef builders do not return.
If the Council withholds payments it will be in breach of contract, yet what will happen if the company do not return.
susanh
says...
1:03pm Thu 12 Feb 09
pipistrollers
says...
1:23pm Thu 12 Feb 09
How many more millions of pounds is this going to cost US not the Council but US.
Brown needs to go - they all need to go.
That's why Screamin Lord Sutch, back in the 60's started the Sod 'Em All Party - he was so fed up with what was going on. I was a Minister in the Loony Party and to be truthful, the Loonies made more sense than our illustrious Conservative Council.
time nor Tide
says...
1:24pm Thu 12 Feb 09
when council's officers were in kiwi they otally avoided anyone who could advise them otherwise - NOW THEY ARE LOOKING ??????
ASR will be back and try to do their best to achieve a score of a completed reef just to be still in the game of having potentual relevance. Thats not in question -the entire idea of a surfing led revival is not a bad one either.
But what a costly experiment with so little past results to base its outcomes on. the contract needs to be sifted through with a fine tooth comb and if english law has any relevance in whats good information and not good information to act apon then justice will prevail.
what was that early estimate of 250k pounds - was that a "bait" or what ??
are we that stupid and lame to be taken in that way??
maybe we rushed into it because of the soft mutterings of "the town down the road is also interested " and we have to be quick as we then will miss out on being the "first reef in europe. "
or that our team found all the info given by ASR when they visited supported that a 70 to one payback was "sound information", even 40 to one was being achieved as they witnessed and ascertained. Oh but Cocoa beach council found thats all a big fib - its less than one third back over 30 years -the cost of getting ASR to maintain it is the killer as they require such work to keep the reef within design specifications.
too little homework has been and is being done by those that are paid to do it!
god help us as its seems he is only helping those that help themselves at the moment
best to believe the seller in all instances ???
noel1
says...
1:25pm Thu 12 Feb 09
WillBrown wrote:Try the Bournemouth Council web-site
OK, so we all agree that the current council is rubbish (putting it politely), so we need big changes.
I know I could do a better job (so could my fish), but I need to know how to get into the right position to do so.
Can anyone tell me the correct steps to become a local MP and get some of these issues sorted?
There is no point moaning about how bad things are, if you are not prepared to do some hard work to get things changed.
Email me if you would like to help.
I am 28, so I will not be retiring soon…..
Regards.
Will Brown.
will@5050publishing.
co.uk
http://www.bournemou
th.gov.uk/Council/El
ections_Voting/could
_u_stand_local_counc
illor.asp
Not hard to find if you were as clever as you think you are.
time nor Tide
says...
1:37pm Thu 12 Feb 09
If the Council withholds payments it will be in breach of contract, yet what will happen if the company do not return."
djd makes a very good point but the strategy I believe in contractual disputes is to allow the other party to be in breach first before ascerting ones total rights.
"a fine tooth comb " may be needed to git the vermin out of the seaweed here?
arendea
says...
1:45pm Thu 12 Feb 09
noel1 wrote:That was friendly and helpful until the last sentence ! I hope no-one goes out of their way to make unnecessary comments to you !
WillBrown wrote: OK, so we all agree that the current council is rubbish (putting it politely), so we need big changes. I know I could do a better job (so could my fish), but I need to know how to get into the right position to do so. Can anyone tell me the correct steps to become a local MP and get some of these issues sorted? There is no point moaning about how bad things are, if you are not prepared to do some hard work to get things changed. Email me if you would like to help. I am 28, so I will not be retiring soon….. Regards. Will Brown. will@5050publishing. co.ukTry the Bournemouth Council web-site http://www.bournemou th.gov.uk/Council/El ections_Voting/could _u_stand_local_counc illor.asp Not hard to find if you were as clever as you think you are.
People only learn when they are helped and given good guidance.. (maybe this is where the council keep going wrong. Full of know-it-alls that appear to be helpful b ut are actually twisting the knife in to make themselves look good)
One person shows a genuine interest and sarcastic comments follow. Nice.
Unfortunately Noel1 - while your intentions may be good, some commenters on here are so disillusioned and unhappy and just plain disgusted with the council that you may find they are not going to be particularly approachable or receptive to any potential concil worker right now lol !
On a story related note, it is good to see that the pressure that is being applied is now resulting in some small admittance and acceptance of responsibilty in this fiasco.
EdBmth
says...
1:52pm Thu 12 Feb 09
Yet Stephen MacLoughlin is advising that witholding further payments could put the council in breach of contract.
A few questions stem from this
(1) Was Councillor MacLoughlins statement based upon a full understanding of the contract that exists with ASR or are we continuing to pay ASR money because no one is quite sure and they think he might be right
(2)They are not doing any work at the moment so what on earth are we paying them for at the moment.
(3) There must be a reason for the fears that they might not return in the Spring. Does this mean that if the council continue to pay them as advised by Councillor MacLoughlin and then they don't return in the Spring the council is going to be even more out of pocket?
arendea
says...
1:53pm Thu 12 Feb 09
Lol - apologies for any confusion guys ! ;)
grimreaper
says...
1:55pm Thu 12 Feb 09
dc addict
says...
1:59pm Thu 12 Feb 09
Nothing new there. That's been going on since day 1.
Why do we people vote for them? Because most of us(including me) are too busy earning money to pay our council tax, to stop and consider the horrific disaster potential of their ineptitude and selfishness.
I'll bet their big meeting the other night contained precious little contrition. All they care about is restoring their "reputation" with us voters.
I apologise for my cynicism.
I hear there's a new vacancy at the Council. ####ed off rate-payers councilling and liason officer. £100,000 per annum.
Gastines
says...
2:02pm Thu 12 Feb 09
EdBmth
says...
2:07pm Thu 12 Feb 09
http://www.stuff.co.
nz/stuff/dailynews/4
839265a6002.html
Another ASR reef that is going over budget etc, ASR demanding more money etc. A few interesting lines in it though
"ASR took over as contractor from May last year with its own team, which has been working on the Bournemouth reef in Britain.
"This is more cost-effective and we have more control over when things are done. Contractor availability has been a problem in the past," Dr Mead said."
So could explain why they were so keen to leave Bournemouth. But the article then goes on to say
"It's possible we might end up having to wait until as late as April-May, but we hope not."
So does this mean that we might well not see them until the summer? The more you Google ASR the more stories you find that cause concern. There was no need for a fact finding trip to the other side of the world.. could all have been done -on-line
bea
says...
2:26pm Thu 12 Feb 09
pete woodley
says...
2:38pm Thu 12 Feb 09
WillBrown
says...
2:46pm Thu 12 Feb 09
I have requested an application pack and thought I would let people know the process.
Bournemouth is split into 18 wards, with 54 councillors.
They only hold a Bi Election if a place becomes available through resignation, retirement or death.
You then apply and if voted in, you would represent one of the 18 wards along other councillors.
There are no places available yet, so I will have to wait.
The next full council election is on the first Sunday in May 2011.
Thanks for everyone help, lets hope I can make a difference soon.
Will.
pete woodley
says...
2:51pm Thu 12 Feb 09
WillBrown wrote:Get in touch with cllr anne rey,she will help,and is a independent.
Thanks for your comments.
I have requested an application pack and thought I would let people know the process.
Bournemouth is split into 18 wards, with 54 councillors.
They only hold a Bi Election if a place becomes available through resignation, retirement or death.
You then apply and if voted in, you would represent one of the 18 wards along other councillors.
There are no places available yet, so I will have to wait.
The next full council election is on the first Sunday in May 2011.
Thanks for everyone help, lets hope I can make a difference soon.
Will.
WillBrown
says...
3:02pm Thu 12 Feb 09
I will do.
Regards.
bazbon
says...
3:32pm Thu 12 Feb 09
green & gold
says...
3:55pm Thu 12 Feb 09
alanhl
says...
4:01pm Thu 12 Feb 09
wondergeezer
says...
4:05pm Thu 12 Feb 09
WHO DO YOU REALLY THINK IS GOING TO PAY FOR THE SHORTFALL....little old tax-payers, just watch the community charge go up.
Emulated
says...
4:14pm Thu 12 Feb 09
djd
says...
4:15pm Thu 12 Feb 09
John T
says...
5:04pm Thu 12 Feb 09
djd wrote:Not for Gordon Brown it ain't!
Sorry used to be the hardest word, now it seems to be the easiest.
fedupwithjobsworths
says...
5:06pm Thu 12 Feb 09
jobsworthbotch wrote:Yes, and negative IQ Council Officers advising them - what a combination!
Usual problem...non-techni cal people holding the purse strings!
Chris...
says...
5:11pm Thu 12 Feb 09
Roger Brown, and as other have said, such as Cllr Dunlop should step down from their positions and tender their resignations over this fiasco. The whole matter of the reef has been a folly from the outset with not a care in how much money was used or spent. The lies that were being told that it would be alright as the money from the Sruf Pods, the Private Flats, and all the other infrastructure, in the words of Roger Brown and Co would counteract the spending. Now we not only have a well above the original billing figure, which now stands at £11m, but the Council deemed fit to add a further £1.8m to the project which will not get finished as originally announced.
It does not matter who one brings in to take over, Geoff Turnbull or whoever. This should have been done earlier, much earlier, specially knowing that someone on the team was not in a fit state to continue. Added to this, one only as to read about ASR, and you will be reluctant to believe that they will return in April or May to finish.
We cannot really blame previous Councils, because a new council takes over with different policies and ideas. If exisiting projects exist, then they should be set to the table by the new council and looked into to ensure that the project is proceeding down the right path. The fact that the Lib Dems might have forecast this project the majority of the cockup and all of the overspends have been in this Councils term.
My conern now is that the same people, or at least some of them are in charge of other projects in the conurbation. Having met some of them, I can see why the Boscombe Reef was destined to take this route. Will other projects take the same direction and cause more problems for the town.
So now we think to ourselves how is this £12.8m going to be paid back. Would anyone like to hazard a guess on how much our Council Tax will rise this year. 3-4% for the Council, 1.5% for Police, 1% for Fire Service. Could be more. Someone has to pay for our Councils faux pars.
pete woodley
says...
5:17pm Thu 12 Feb 09
Victormeldrew100
says...
5:22pm Thu 12 Feb 09
dark-toll
jobsworthbotch
says...
5:48pm Thu 12 Feb 09
fedupwithjobsworths wrote:Yep! All they needed to do was hire a rowing boat and chuck a few sand bags over the back! Did they check to see if the company actually exists I wonder...just needs them to go bust now!
jobsworthbotch wrote: Usual problem...non-techni cal people holding the purse strings!Yes, and negative IQ Council Officers advising them - what a combination!
gudmenrmist
says...
8:17pm Thu 12 Feb 09
Chris...
says...
8:45pm Thu 12 Feb 09
dbass
says...
12:07am Fri 13 Feb 09
Where is the accountability here ? As usual the extra funds will be provided by us the council tax payers.
Mr Brown also apologises because £757,000 to fit out 60 "surf pods" was not included in the budget, Oh dear !! how in Gods name do you just forget over three quarters of a million quid ? Need I go on ?
time nor Tide
says...
1:35am Fri 13 Feb 09
If the reef had been finished on time how many days have there been where its cost will have been shown to be worthwhile?
how many times have the surfing community been heard to say "oh if the reef had been finished there will have been perfect surfing days/nights so many times up to now -- like a reality check on what to expect.
So has any body heard that said at all?
remember what the reef is being built for ??
its should be obvious to all by now whether its a "yo-yo craze" of anticipation to sell real estate or if its a something of a real thing that will have ongoing sporting benefits.
I suspect by the lack of reports of "perfect conditions days and nights" that whether its finished or not is totally irrelevant - of course the real estate salespeople don't want that aired and will think it a bit of a betrayal of the cause to even mention it - but hasn't the "first reef" in Europe just been minor part of the game of consumer marketing for selling real estate - that's ok as it happens all the time and "caveat emptor" applies and the reef builders are builders of a certain "playground" offering all the bits of enticement to get someway to pay.
So is it a good site for a multimillion pound "playground" ?
Are those that are being enticed to "play" being treated with "sweets" or sustainable benefits?
So where's the surfing community in its assessment of the days in which the ocean could offer up its "sweets" this season of surfing opportunity?
cat gotcha tongues? or surf wax?
what are we to expect from all this emotional and finacial disruption.
One day of a few good waves a year i hope or it truly will be unworthwhile. Is that what the past months show ??
will the wave days double and the wave size go from knee-height to overhead? is that a statement from a "naughty man" offering sweets from his trenchcoat or is it a real thing upon which a town can build its reputation on??
So much weight on councils shoulders -have they been taken by sweets or have they been very astute?
so surfers how has the season been up to now? all sweet or otherwise??
arendea
says...
1:49pm Fri 13 Feb 09
Here is a little bit of support for them...
1. Surfers are generally not students - they cant afford the kit and generally need money to take part in it - like most sports or hobbies.
Not only that but surfers who take holidays to go surfing spend a lot of money funding a trip, the kit is one thing but accomodation is always top of any surf trip!
Bournemouth isnt well known for its campsites (as most surfers would do in Devon or Cornwall) but very well know for all its hotels and little B&Bs - these businesses will benefit - eventually!
What a ridiclous suggestion that ALL surfers dont have money !! Its the council with no money - take it out on them!
2. YES we have often commented on what a shame the darned thing isnt built yet on those days when the surf would be amazing - and YES it does happen more than once or twice a year.
I spent most of my leisure time at the beach with friends and family last year, a good deal of surfing folk amongst them and this was often the topic of discussion. It was always mentioned how disappointing it is that this whole thing started off positively and has gone downhill to such an extent.
Also - anyone that knows anythig about surfing and the weather will know that just cos its a sunny day doesnt meant that there will be no surf and just cos its a rainy, windy overcast etc day doesnt mean that the surf will be good.
I totally agree with the commenters in regards to the council and the embarrasing fiasco they have turned this into BUT PLEASE dont start taking this out on the people that WILL be making use of this facility - if this will ever be possible! These people did not force the issue, it was not their idea or suggestion to have a reef, they didnt petition for a local reef or have any hand in the chaos that has been caused by the COUNCIL !
dbass
says...
4:15pm Fri 13 Feb 09
threef.com in 2005
How much will the reef cost to build?
The design and construction cost of the surf reef is approximately £1.4 million. We are working with Wessex Surf Club on an application to Sport England for contributory funding.
So now it is up from the original £1.4 million to £11 million ??
time nor Tide
says...
12:20am Sun 15 Feb 09
You are correct about the uncertainty of delivery of the surf -especialy facing the english channel. let me think .... umm i wonder why?
incidently bournemouth is not the only place with that idea as below.
less surfing congestion then?
from the "times on line"
"More than £10m from the Indian government’s Tsunami Rehabilitation Programme has been allocated to areas that were not affected by the tsunami. Kerala Tourism has disguised the diversion of the funds as “coastal protection” in an attempt to quell local outrage, but the works consist almost entirely of extravagant construction projects designed to maximise the profit potential of the once sleepy resort of Kovalam.
One of these projects is the construction of an artificial surf reef that has been designed to increase the size of the waves hitting the coast. Local opposition groups claim that turning the bay into a playground for westerners will put 500 fishermen out of work and put fish breeding grounds at risk."
http://www.timesonli
ne.co.uk/tol/travel/
news/article4921034.
ece
arendea
says...
1:18pm Mon 16 Feb 09
There has been sufficient days of good surf to draw many local - ie within 50 miles - surfers, all year round actually.
There were also many days during the holiday seasons in 2008 that may have given some very good surfing had the reef been there! Surf good enough to draw surfers from all over the south and also surfers from north of our borders that may not have been prepared or able to travel any further south than Bournemouth also !
Are you a surfer Time nor Tide - you dont sound like one - maybe you should stick to whinging about the money screw ups which you appear to have more sound knowlege on.
time nor Tide
says...
12:02am Fri 20 Feb 09
A golf course was to be built and a levy on their rates approved by a golf course developer as the community representative.
The community was outraged when it found that all was being done in their name without out their knowledge,approval and the lot - developer, surf reef developer and any other shyster associated with it sent packing.
I wonder if council looked at that fiasco of attempted "by stealth" community rates surcharge gouging before they went to bed with this deal?
And of course I wish the surfers all the best that can happen, I just really hope that they have not been beguiled by the offers of "sweets" from under the trench coat as any adolescent male will react to a promise from his girlfriend - that is become so submissive and compliant even fight for her. So I do hope any surf “promise" of double the size for double the days of 5 on a pipeline score of 8 with knee height waves being transformed to miraculous overhead may have some percentage of it become reality.
Otherwise a well adjusted meaningful relationship with a partner would be a better choice for them to concentate on
Has any of the surf web sites got those pictures to show what you speak of Andréa?
Yes I agree about surfing and me and that is why I asked.
Surfing has many rights but to gouge from community funding especially in areas where there are more sustainable ways of providing facilities and basic human necessities is not the right of ANY special interest group regardless of their passion for their sport or recreation.
If it proves ones passion for a sport was manipulated by commercial interests then indeed the sportspeople themselves should be outraged - as it seems they have been in both Florida and New Zealand.
Not to say yet that is the case here but there seems to be
easy to see a pattern developing -the major difference being that the size of the promise has increased (with cherry picked promises) and the size of the budget has increased greatly.
Council -well unfortunately they were just as easy a mark as the surfers -do you know the three famous promises of the opportunist?
we will see and I now know be a little better prepared.
More Surf Reef stories
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- Boscombe surf reef: Marine firms claim ASR owes them £60,000
- Sub-contractor wins county court judgement against ASR
- Boat strike at surf reef is no longer ‘clear cut’
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- ASR to come back in 2012 to improve surf reef
- Handling of surf reef not been our 'finest hour'
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