Mouchel restructure is "good news" says Bournemouth council (From Bournemouth Echo)
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Mouchel restructure is "good news" says Bournemouth council
9:08am Wednesday 29th August 2012 in News By Steven Smith
Mouchel restructure is "good news" says Bournemouth council
BOURNEMOUTH council’s leader says its outsourcing partner’s restructure is “good news” – but opponents say employees should be brought back in-house.
As reported in the Daily Echo, shareholders in troubled Mouchel , which runs several of the authority’s departments, voted against restructure plans, which led to it appointing administrators on Saturday.
That was swiftly followed by a new company called MRBL Ltd, owned by the lenders of Mouchel Group plc and the group’s management, acquiring the businesses of Mouchel Group from the administrator, KPMG.
As reported, the move was Mouchel’s ‘alternative plan’ in the event that shareholders did not agree the restructure. It means shareholders will get nothing and shares were due to be cancelled yesterday.
Council leader Cllr John Beesley said: “Of course, we continue to manage, monitor and review the contract closely, to ensure that service targets are being met within the agreed contract price, so guaranteeing ongoing savings to the council.
“It essentially remains business as usual for our incremental partnership and our relationship with MRBL remains strong as they continue to deliver.”
There are still concerns over the stability of Mouchel and of the council’s “exit strategy” in its contract with the firm.
Cllr Anne Rey, leader of the Independent Group on the council, inset, said: “We were against it as opposition councillors and we were proved right. We wouldn’t be going into partnership with this company now on such a big scale.
“They had all the warnings and I think everything should come back in-house now and give the opportunity to the staff to say how they could do better. I think most of residents feel the same.”
Earlier this month Milton Keynes Council said it would be ending its contract with Mouchel.
Cllr Beesley said a contingency plan was still in place.
“Our utmost priority would be the uninterrupted provision of value for money services to the council and the residents of Bournemouth, and so, should it ever be necessary, the renegotiation of the contract, or even the insourcing of services and staff back to the Borough Council could take place,” he added.
Grant Rumbles, chief executive of Mouchel, said: “With a stable and supportive ownership structure and a balance sheet that is fit for purpose, Mouchel will be in a strong position to rebuild the business and start winning large contracts again.”
Comments(53)
Old Colonial
says...
9:24am Wed 29 Aug 12
Of course he does! He has the same business ethics as the new company he is so pleased to be in bed with. Directors who bring a company to its knees, shaft the Shareholders, yet retain their positions with even greater riches in store.
For Directors read Councillors, and for shareholders read Local Electorate.
jinglebell
says...
9:33am Wed 29 Aug 12
This is an opportunity for Mr. Beesley to be upfront and honest, and say, "We were wrong." If he ever dared to admit mistakes, we would all have the beginnings of some faith in our local Councillors.....as it stands, we can't believe a thing.
Anne Rey, as an Independent Councillor, seems to be the only one, who is willing to tell the truth publicly - does this mean that the only Councillors who will be honest and trust worthy are the Independents....seem
s to be?
uvox44
says...
9:36am Wed 29 Aug 12
jbland
says...
9:37am Wed 29 Aug 12
aerolover
says...
9:49am Wed 29 Aug 12
High Treason
says...
9:51am Wed 29 Aug 12
Adrian Fudge
says...
10:11am Wed 29 Aug 12
No scrutiny at all
Old Colonial
says...
10:12am Wed 29 Aug 12
jinglebell wrote:Anne Rey is Independent which means exactly what it says. She does not have to bow down to bullying tactics and tow the party line.
"Good news" is our "Leaders'" description....as the post above says, good news too is how he has described the surf reef, Imax, Winter Gardens, Pier Theatre, Shelley Theatre, the BCCA, the closing of Day Centres etc. etc......and so on and so on...
This is an opportunity for Mr. Beesley to be upfront and honest, and say, "We were wrong." If he ever dared to admit mistakes, we would all have the beginnings of some faith in our local Councillors.....as it stands, we can't believe a thing.
Anne Rey, as an Independent Councillor, seems to be the only one, who is willing to tell the truth publicly - does this mean that the only Councillors who will be honest and trust worthy are the Independents....seem
s to be?
BmthNewshound
says...
10:13am Wed 29 Aug 12
.
The banks have not done this out of kindness they’ve done it in the hope that they will be able to recover some of the remaining debt owned to them by the “old” Mouchel business. The first thing they will do is complete a thorough review of all of the businesses divisions and contracts and if they see an opportunity to sell off part of the business to get some of their money back or close part of the business they’ll do it.
.
All big outsourcing contracts have break clauses where, in simple terms, either side can decide to terminate or renegotiate the contract terms. What is certain is that at the first opportunity MRBL, under the instructions of their main shareholders, the banks, will find ways of screwing more money out of their clients or reduce the service to an absolute minimum, I fail to see how this can be good news for Bournemouth Council.
.
As with ASR, Mouchel realised that they were dealing with a bunch of incompetents at Bournemouth Council and took complete advantage. The Council failed to do its due diligence before allowing the Imax to be built, leaving the taxpayer to pick up the cost of that failed project, and the same will happen if the Nautilus development next to the Pavilion gets underway, Trevor Osborne Group will start the job but as with their project in Bath, someone else – probably the tax payer will have to complete it.
thevisitor
says...
10:18am Wed 29 Aug 12
jbland
says...
10:34am Wed 29 Aug 12
lostnfound
says...
10:42am Wed 29 Aug 12
wokboy60
says...
10:50am Wed 29 Aug 12
hrryseccombe
says...
10:59am Wed 29 Aug 12
Echo dec 2012 .......Ettore Bernardi, vice-chair of the Queens Park and Charminster forum, said residents had yet to be convinced the Mouchel deal was a good one.
“I think the main question residents have asked is if Mouchel can do it cheaper, and generate more jobs, and pay dividends, then what is the council doing wrong?” he said. “It just seems too good to be true and residents are highly sceptical. The council, you assume, will be there in perpetuity while companies come and go.
“A lot of questions have been asked about Mouchel’s financial stability and whether we should be putting such faith in them.”
Try this if you fancy some homework on the mouchel debackle http://bournemouth-l
ibdems.org.uk/en/art
icle/2012/591504/the
-mouchel-saga-update
d-complete-overview-
april-2010-may-2012
miniminime
says...
11:15am Wed 29 Aug 12
Adrian Fudge wrote:This is hardly an unbiased view as Mr Fudge is a local councillor!!!
Beyond everything else dont forget that the savings that this contract was suppossedly going to produce was REDUCED by over £100m over the 10years of the contract without explaining to anyone why this was
No scrutiny at all
MattGillett
says...
11:15am Wed 29 Aug 12
MRBL will only thrive if they make a large profit on thier existing contracts. They will only make a large profit on existing contracts if the counterparties negotiated incompetently and are paying too much. Nice admission Mr Beesley!!
Lord Spring
says...
11:19am Wed 29 Aug 12
High Treason
says...
11:21am Wed 29 Aug 12
wokboy60 wrote:The Echo would increase its income if the public thought the paper was on their side. At present if appears as if the chief exec at the council is also the editor of the Echo.
Well said BmthNewshound ! The standard of leadership and integrity at Bournemouth Council is way beyond just normal human error nowadays ! ....and jbland I am afraid that the Echo doesnt "do" investigative journalism any more and hasnt done for years , they just dont have the resources.Local newspapers are dying on their feet and when they are gone we all will have no idea what some councils get up to !
muscliffman
says...
11:30am Wed 29 Aug 12
Is Bournemouth Council's business continuing with the same Company and legal entity Mouchel PLC, that it signed the original - and to general public knowledge - only outsourcing contract.
Unless MRBL Ltd, the new Company quoted, acquired the shares of Mouchel - in order for Mouchel PLC itself to continue trading as such then Bournemouth can no longer be working with Mouchel PLC - as I understand it.
It is stated that Mouchel shares will today be cancelled, if so Mouchel PLC, will surely be in the first stages of dissolution rather than as stated, a restructure. It therefore cannot trade.
It seems to me that MRBL is a 'phoenix' Company that has acquired only the business activities of Mouchel PLC, as said from Mouchel's Administrators.
If so Bournemouth has no contract whatsoever with MRBL Ltd - unless a new contract has very quietly been signed, or small print anticipating this situation existed in the original.
So I have to ask, legally who exactly is dealing with all our public details in the Town Hall today, should they be in there at all?
A complete shambles again, the one thing Bournemouth Council is good at.
spryte67
says...
11:31am Wed 29 Aug 12
O'Reilly
says...
11:42am Wed 29 Aug 12
whataboutthat
says...
12:05pm Wed 29 Aug 12
Jbland above points out the Echo is a lickspittle and we must rely on external media, such as Private Eye and even the BBC to get anywhere near an understanding of this pointless and expensive privatising of Bournemouth's public services. The lack of savvy at the business end of the council's activities is quite astonishing, truly, truly astonishing. Resignations en masse are necessary.
hrryseccombe
says...
12:17pm Wed 29 Aug 12
Its chief executive quit last year after Mouchel said a statistical error and mounting risks to contracts would slash about 60% off its profits. Its interim chairman resigned four days after being appointed.
Ooo-err... hope they don't make a statistical error with the bournemouth council services, it could prove troublesome.
jbland
says...
12:24pm Wed 29 Aug 12
wokboy60 wrote:i obviously realise that local newspapers are failing but it is their own fault ,they take the lazy option ,they are too slow in reporting local issues especially on line and even the website is simply an advertising hoarding - the physical paper is a mere few pages of news for a lot of money and the news is just as vague as it can be ,if the paper fails its your own fault frankly
Well said BmthNewshound ! The standard of leadership and integrity at Bournemouth Council is way beyond just normal human error nowadays ! ....and jbland I am afraid that the Echo doesnt "do" investigative journalism any more and hasnt done for years , they just dont have the resources.Local newspapers are dying on their feet and when they are gone we all will have no idea what some councils get up to !
how many days did it take to get the website issues resolved over this last week and not a word from the editor about it ?
ekimnoslen
says...
1:09pm Wed 29 Aug 12
jinglebell wrote:You are probably right. Local government should be outside national politics as it was at one time.
"Good news" is our "Leaders'" description....as the post above says, good news too is how he has described the surf reef, Imax, Winter Gardens, Pier Theatre, Shelley Theatre, the BCCA, the closing of Day Centres etc. etc......and so on and so on...
This is an opportunity for Mr. Beesley to be upfront and honest, and say, "We were wrong." If he ever dared to admit mistakes, we would all have the beginnings of some faith in our local Councillors.....as it stands, we can't believe a thing.
Anne Rey, as an Independent Councillor, seems to be the only one, who is willing to tell the truth publicly - does this mean that the only Councillors who will be honest and trust worthy are the Independents....seem
s to be?
Freddie frog
says...
1:10pm Wed 29 Aug 12
Azphreal
says...
1:10pm Wed 29 Aug 12
Pablo23
says...
1:14pm Wed 29 Aug 12
http://www.construct
ionenquirer.com/?s=m
ouchel
Old Colonial
says...
1:16pm Wed 29 Aug 12
Freddie frog wrote:It's the system. As posted before, national party politics should play no part in local government. Those elected of whatever political pursuasion will always put the needs of the party first, whereas local issues need to be treated pragmatically. Each town/district requires an individual approach.
So are the Cllrs really to blame ....... or the people that keep voting the Tory's in? Word on the street is there could be a couple of by-elections soon, what's the betting that 2 Tory's get in again!
The Seasider
says...
1:18pm Wed 29 Aug 12
BBC Escapee
says...
1:45pm Wed 29 Aug 12
Lord Spring wrote:................and before this Refuse Collection and Street Sweeping were awarded to a private company, Drinkwater Sabey before being run by the council again!
Bournemouth outsourcing goes back to 1992 when they started with Eclipse just look at how many have come and gone since then, will they never learn the folly of their ways.
Council services are exactly that - SERVICES, yes they should be run efficiently and offer value for money at cost! but............they are traditionally run by the local council as a SERVICE not a profit making excercise!
Private companies exist to make a profit.
A good way of trying to make a profit out of a council contract apart from greater efficiency is by - adding extras/variations that the council have overlooked in drawing up the contract, offering less of a service, cutting staff and reducing the savings that you promised in order to appear the most favourable bidder for that contract.
A council may also underestimate the costs involved in contract supervision and administration especially when additions and variations to the contract start to be ramped up by the contractor!
Of course once a service has been outsourced and then brought back in-house there are substantial extra costs incurred in setting it all back up especially so if plant and machinery are involved that may have been previosly disposed of. (and of course experienced staff who have disappeared)
Any savings to the council tax payer are then swiftly diminished, lost, forgotten about and covered up!
A council has a responsibility and duty of care to its residents/council tax payers - something obviously didn't add up from the begining on this one, a private company can take on the exact same staff from the council to run the same service and not only make a profit but massive savings for the council! Were council management so inept that they couldn't do this themselves without even having to make a profit - just run a cost efficient service, if so there is a big question to be asked about the quality of Town Hall management and expertise! ........or was it just too good to be true!
There seems to be enough people asking these kind of questions now - so why no investigation, is it going to be another surf reef smoke screen?
What is going on at Bournemouth Borough Council and what is so desperately trying to be hidden and buried - it can't just boil down to mistakes and incompetence - Can It?
itsascoop
says...
1:49pm Wed 29 Aug 12
Contract Price
The annual contract price as at 1 April 2011 was £14,399,972.
As at 31 March 2012, the annual contract price was £17,490,928 plus milestone
payments made of £5,724,742, giving a total of £23,215,670.
hrryseccombe
says...
2:01pm Wed 29 Aug 12
muscliffman wrote:good question. Definately sounds like a phoenix company to me.
I would welcome clarification, and the views of others, on the main issue I see here.
Is Bournemouth Council's business continuing with the same Company and legal entity Mouchel PLC, that it signed the original - and to general public knowledge - only outsourcing contract.
Unless MRBL Ltd, the new Company quoted, acquired the shares of Mouchel - in order for Mouchel PLC itself to continue trading as such then Bournemouth can no longer be working with Mouchel PLC - as I understand it.
It is stated that Mouchel shares will today be cancelled, if so Mouchel PLC, will surely be in the first stages of dissolution rather than as stated, a restructure. It therefore cannot trade.
It seems to me that MRBL is a 'phoenix' Company that has acquired only the business activities of Mouchel PLC, as said from Mouchel's Administrators.
If so Bournemouth has no contract whatsoever with MRBL Ltd - unless a new contract has very quietly been signed, or small print anticipating this situation existed in the original.
So I have to ask, legally who exactly is dealing with all our public details in the Town Hall today, should they be in there at all?
A complete shambles again, the one thing Bournemouth Council is good at.
penhale
says...
2:08pm Wed 29 Aug 12
whataboutthat
says...
2:30pm Wed 29 Aug 12
penhale wrote:...because only the council and the slavish cat tray liner Echo would dare to mention 'good news' the council and Mouchel in a single headline. Positively Orwellian (war is peace, ministry of truth, etc.)
Could someone explain how the majority of people in Dorset see the pitfalls of Bournemouth council and Mouchel but all those involved in this fiasco seem to see the opposite, just thought I would ask.
seniorman
says...
2:55pm Wed 29 Aug 12
On another point; what has happened to the pension rights of those transferred to Mouchel. Are they still with local Government or will we the local tax payer have to pick up the mess when Mouchel make a hash of everything?
Local & National Government seem to have lost the way!!
Phixer
says...
3:13pm Wed 29 Aug 12
jbland wrote:There aren't any 'journalists', only 'jobseekers' and failed Summerbee students.
why has the Echo not gone for the throat and asked the questions ? if i were a journalist on this paper i would be on Beasleys case all day every day for answers ,its your duty to do that . responsible investigative reporting is nessessary to break the cycle of this councils incompetence - just get to the truth ??
Phixer
says...
3:16pm Wed 29 Aug 12
penhale wrote:Its called 'corruption'.
Could someone explain how the majority of people in Dorset see the pitfalls of Bournemouth council and Mouchel but all those involved in this fiasco seem to see the opposite, just thought I would ask.
georgina dean
says...
4:05pm Wed 29 Aug 12
Redgolfer00
says...
4:45pm Wed 29 Aug 12
seniorman wrote:Its ok when you have independant people to vote for but last time in my ward Springbourne and East Cliff there were none so all I could do to vote my disgust at that was to SPOIL my slip just to have it registered, its about time Downing Street got involved with this council as they leave a nasty smell in all they try to do !!!!!.
This just shows the competence of the ruling party. Some of us always vote Independant; at least our councellors alway speak up. Good job we have Anne & Ron to tell the truth.
On another point; what has happened to the pension rights of those transferred to Mouchel. Are they still with local Government or will we the local tax payer have to pick up the mess when Mouchel make a hash of everything?
Local & National Government seem to have lost the way!!
BIGTONE
says...
5:08pm Wed 29 Aug 12
Old Colonial
says...
5:57pm Wed 29 Aug 12
Redgolfer00 wrote:And what do you expect Downing Street to do? Who do you think is pulling the strings of these wannabe politician puppets at the BBC?
seniorman wrote:Its ok when you have independant people to vote for but last time in my ward Springbourne and East Cliff there were none so all I could do to vote my disgust at that was to SPOIL my slip just to have it registered, its about time Downing Street got involved with this council as they leave a nasty smell in all they try to do !!!!!.
This just shows the competence of the ruling party. Some of us always vote Independant; at least our councellors alway speak up. Good job we have Anne & Ron to tell the truth.
On another point; what has happened to the pension rights of those transferred to Mouchel. Are they still with local Government or will we the local tax payer have to pick up the mess when Mouchel make a hash of everything?
Local & National Government seem to have lost the way!!
ShuttleX
says...
6:27pm Wed 29 Aug 12
jbland wrote:The Echo does what it's told like any good puppet. They wouldn't know how to ask awkward questions of the Council. Bought and paid for comes to mind.
why has the Echo not gone for the throat and asked the questions ? if i were a journalist on this paper i would be on Beasleys case all day every day for answers ,its your duty to do that . responsible investigative reporting is nessessary to break the cycle of this councils incompetence - just get to the truth ??
addntox
says...
7:56pm Wed 29 Aug 12
TheDistrict
says...
8:47pm Wed 29 Aug 12
.
Here is my vote of no confidence.
MngsMnr
says...
10:25pm Wed 29 Aug 12
03679828 MOUCHEL BUSINESS SERVICES LIMITED
05887555 MOUCHEL FINANCE & TREASURY HOLDINGS LIMITED
05887689 MOUCHEL FINANCE LIMITED
00095369 MOUCHEL GROUP PLC
05887559 MOUCHEL HOLDINGS LIMITED
01686040 MOUCHEL LIMITED
02491619 MOUCHEL MANAGEMENT CONSULTING LIMITED
08177998 MRBL LIMITED
muscliffman
says...
11:44pm Wed 29 Aug 12
MngsMnr wrote:I have seen these details - hence my earlier queries about who is in our Town Hall.
Restructure - WHY? I'm looking at the accounts of all their related business and suggest BBC do the same. There again they probably wouldn't have a clue what they were looking at.
03679828 MOUCHEL BUSINESS SERVICES LIMITED
05887555 MOUCHEL FINANCE & TREASURY HOLDINGS LIMITED
05887689 MOUCHEL FINANCE LIMITED
00095369 MOUCHEL GROUP PLC
05887559 MOUCHEL HOLDINGS LIMITED
01686040 MOUCHEL LIMITED
02491619 MOUCHEL MANAGEMENT CONSULTING LIMITED
08177998 MRBL LIMITED
E.G. Were Bournemouth Council ever really signed up with Mouchel PLC? I suspect perhaps not, which may be why whoever it is are still in there.
The 'related' business concerned could be only indirectly affected by the Administration of the PLC and could be sold/continue to trade etc. In these circumstances it would indeed therefore not be Mouchel PLC in the Town Hall but a seperate legal entity - this is not exacty what we were told is it?
The Directors and shareholder details of these related Companies might be worth a look as well.
Interesting.........
.
EGHH
says...
6:38am Thu 30 Aug 12
Adrian Fudge
says...
9:31am Thu 30 Aug 12
miniminime wrote:I dont think that I have been a local Councillor for about 6 years
Adrian Fudge wrote: Beyond everything else dont forget that the savings that this contract was suppossedly going to produce was REDUCED by over £100m over the 10years of the contract without explaining to anyone why this was No scrutiny at allThis is hardly an unbiased view as Mr Fudge is a local councillor!!!
What I am quoting is fact not opinion
Lord Spring
says...
10:32am Thu 30 Aug 12
Adrian Fudge wrote:Can I remind you that have not been councillor for quite a while, incase you were uncertain.
miniminime wrote:I dont think that I have been a local Councillor for about 6 years
Adrian Fudge wrote: Beyond everything else dont forget that the savings that this contract was suppossedly going to produce was REDUCED by over £100m over the 10years of the contract without explaining to anyone why this was No scrutiny at allThis is hardly an unbiased view as Mr Fudge is a local councillor!!!
What I am quoting is fact not opinion
BBC Escapee
says...
11:55am Thu 30 Aug 12
http://www.guardian.
co.uk/public-leaders
-network/2012/aug/30
/mouchel-bankruptcy-
business-public-bodi
es?newsfeed=true
There is even a special mention for John Beesley!
Maybe the ball will start rolling if the national press sniff that there might be a story to bring out!
MattGillett
says...
11:14am Fri 31 Aug 12
muscliffman wrote:It depends on the contract, a contract can be transferable if it is 1) deemed to be an asset i.e Bournemouth Council are paying too much and 2) not excluded in the original terms of the contract 3) It is deemed a contract; based on lots of other court cases that have set a precedent i.e. something of value has changed hands etc.
I would welcome clarification, and the views of others, on the main issue I see here. Is Bournemouth Council's business continuing with the same Company and legal entity Mouchel PLC, that it signed the original - and to general public knowledge - only outsourcing contract. Unless MRBL Ltd, the new Company quoted, acquired the shares of Mouchel - in order for Mouchel PLC itself to continue trading as such then Bournemouth can no longer be working with Mouchel PLC - as I understand it. It is stated that Mouchel shares will today be cancelled, if so Mouchel PLC, will surely be in the first stages of dissolution rather than as stated, a restructure. It therefore cannot trade. It seems to me that MRBL is a 'phoenix' Company that has acquired only the business activities of Mouchel PLC, as said from Mouchel's Administrators. If so Bournemouth has no contract whatsoever with MRBL Ltd - unless a new contract has very quietly been signed, or small print anticipating this situation existed in the original. So I have to ask, legally who exactly is dealing with all our public details in the Town Hall today, should they be in there at all? A complete shambles again, the one thing Bournemouth Council is good at.
Technically if all of the above criteria fit then MRBL is not a pheonix company by continuing the contract.
It is in fact a legal requirement that the administrators gather together all these contractual assets and ensure that the creditors get maximum value out of them..
sea poole says...
9:15am Wed 29 Aug 12