Councillor speaks out at Bournemouth council's motion over cyclists

Sienna Barnett with mum Bonnie

Sienna Barnett with mum Bonnie

First published in News by

A COUNCILLOR lambasted his colleagues for criticising cyclists yet never passing motions ‘when motorists are buried’.

Dave Smith, who rides his bike to the Town Hall, spoke out as his colleagues tried to pass a motion on Tuesday night after a four-year-old girl suffered a broken leg in collision with a cyclist.

Sienna Barnett from Southbourne was injured on the pavement near her family shop in November.

Cllr Smith said: “My heart goes out to the little girl that was injured. Please pass on my thoughts to her family.

“But can we get it into context?

“I suspect there are tens, if not hundreds of people killed on the roads in Dorset every year.

“I never hear anyone come to council when somebody is smashed up on the road, being buried. You don’t come forward with motions then.

“In fact, you get councillors saying keep the speed limit, ‘We want to go fast’.

“We want to be encouraging people to cycle.”

The motion, which was passed, supported police enforcement and urged the council to emphasise that riding on the pavement is illegal.

Cllr Anne Filer said cyclists are consistently ‘the biggest annoyance’ amongst residents’ public meetings in her East Cliff ward.

However, Cllr Dennis Gritt said: “A policeman said to me, ‘What if I have to say to a 12-year-old boy, get off the pavement and ride on roads like Kinson Road’ and then he has an accident’?

“Do you think he could live with that on his conscience?”

Cycling on pavements is illegal. However the Home Office has advised officers not to take action against vulnerable or responsible cyclists occasionally using the pavement to keep safe. Dorset Police said yesterday that 17 motorists had been killed up on Dorset’s roads up until November 4.

Comments (109)

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9:08am Sun 11 Dec 11

MandinVerwood says...

Get bylawes passed so that all bikes and completly banned from Bournemouth and the local areas - be it on the road, seafront, off-road or even children's bikes.
.
We don't want them - okay it will put people out of jobs, create more issues with travelling and congestion and make people unfitter - but at least I don't have to look at them - as it offends me!
.
What we need is to take Bournemouth back and make it like it was in the 50's - Great for old people. We don't want other people here - this should be for people to retire to - maybe a few younger people to look after us - but that's all!
Get bylawes passed so that all bikes and completly banned from Bournemouth and the local areas - be it on the road, seafront, off-road or even children's bikes. . We don't want them - okay it will put people out of jobs, create more issues with travelling and congestion and make people unfitter - but at least I don't have to look at them - as it offends me! . What we need is to take Bournemouth back and make it like it was in the 50's - Great for old people. We don't want other people here - this should be for people to retire to - maybe a few younger people to look after us - but that's all! MandinVerwood
  • Score: 0

9:36am Sun 11 Dec 11

High Treason says...

OK for children to ride on the pavements at a slow speed. The problem is adults also do it and speed along thinking pavements are for cyclists and not pedestrians.
OK for children to ride on the pavements at a slow speed. The problem is adults also do it and speed along thinking pavements are for cyclists and not pedestrians. High Treason
  • Score: 0

9:39am Sun 11 Dec 11

uvox44 says...

why not make cycling on pavements legal but with a 4mph speed limit? And to the inevitable replies about it not being enforced - well seems ok for a much heavier , more dangerous car on the road, how many people keep to 30 around town ? Even past schools and down narrow residential roads- the backstreets of winton are very narrow but do people, including those paragons of virtue mothers with young kids, slow down? Do they hell.
But let's ignore all that and instead demonise people who are actually using transport that is a lot less dangerous and produces NO pollution and can help free up the roads from gridlock- truely forward thinking don't you agree?
why not make cycling on pavements legal but with a 4mph speed limit? And to the inevitable replies about it not being enforced - well seems ok for a much heavier , more dangerous car on the road, how many people keep to 30 around town ? Even past schools and down narrow residential roads- the backstreets of winton are very narrow but do people, including those paragons of virtue mothers with young kids, slow down? Do they hell. But let's ignore all that and instead demonise people who are actually using transport that is a lot less dangerous and produces NO pollution and can help free up the roads from gridlock- truely forward thinking don't you agree? uvox44
  • Score: 0

9:42am Sun 11 Dec 11

Ash_69 says...

OMG!! - can't the lazy journo's at echo towers find some other stories - you have been flogging your anti-cyclist campaign for quite a while now. I think all the arguesments ahve been heard again and again and again and again..
I'm sure there are pressing stories out there.
btw - as there has been no mention to it on any other stories - I Hope the lady who was hit at a pedestrian crossing in Ringwood on Friday by a car and received two broken legs makes a good recovery!
OMG!! - can't the lazy journo's at echo towers find some other stories - you have been flogging your anti-cyclist campaign for quite a while now. I think all the arguesments ahve been heard again and again and again and again.. I'm sure there are pressing stories out there. btw - as there has been no mention to it on any other stories - I Hope the lady who was hit at a pedestrian crossing in Ringwood on Friday by a car and received two broken legs makes a good recovery! Ash_69
  • Score: 0

9:58am Sun 11 Dec 11

radical says...

I agree, lets get this in context, roads are packed with all manner of transport from motorcycles to juggernauts, the roads are used generally by vehicles with a fair lick of speed, millions of journeys a day are undertaken and the sheer amount of traffic means that there will be accidents.
Because of the dangerous nature of the road and traffic it carries any pedestrian with any sense would take great care when crossing from one side to the other to preserve their own safety, look left and right or better still wait till a driver stops or use a proper crossing, as long as we use sense we can stay safe crossing the road.
On the flip side the pavements were made for pedestrians to walk in safety, a dividing line between people and vehicles.
Pedestrians would look both ways before crossing the road to stay safe, does this now have to apply when exiting the gate from your home because some idiot now feels that he or she is above the law when riding a cycle on the pavement, do pedestrians now have a mirror screwed to their head when walking through a shopping precinct because of cyclists speeding erratically between shoppers, do we have to look both ways before coming out of a shop.
Painting a white line down a pavement to separate cyclists from pedestrians is complete lunacy, young children skip and wander about on the pavement and cyclists, like some motorists, feel like they are experienced enough to avoid these small individuals, but obviously their not.
even though they are not mechanically driven the time has come to have some real enforcement regarding cycling.
I don't agree with taxation on cycles but they should by law have some form of insurance and registration, we all insure our homes, gas boilers and god knows what else so why no insure a cycle which has the potential to cause serious injury and many pounds worth of damage.
Cycles, when on the road can reach speed up to the posted speed limit, on the pavement, if that's the way it's going, they should be restricted to 4mph, the same as a mobility scooter.
Pedestrians should feel safe on the pavement, children should feel safe on the pavement, the elderly should feel safe on the pavement other wise the pedestrian will start walking in the road to feel safer.
I agree, lets get this in context, roads are packed with all manner of transport from motorcycles to juggernauts, the roads are used generally by vehicles with a fair lick of speed, millions of journeys a day are undertaken and the sheer amount of traffic means that there will be accidents. Because of the dangerous nature of the road and traffic it carries any pedestrian with any sense would take great care when crossing from one side to the other to preserve their own safety, look left and right or better still wait till a driver stops or use a proper crossing, as long as we use sense we can stay safe crossing the road. On the flip side the pavements were made for pedestrians to walk in safety, a dividing line between people and vehicles. Pedestrians would look both ways before crossing the road to stay safe, does this now have to apply when exiting the gate from your home because some idiot now feels that he or she is above the law when riding a cycle on the pavement, do pedestrians now have a mirror screwed to their head when walking through a shopping precinct because of cyclists speeding erratically between shoppers, do we have to look both ways before coming out of a shop. Painting a white line down a pavement to separate cyclists from pedestrians is complete lunacy, young children skip and wander about on the pavement and cyclists, like some motorists, feel like they are experienced enough to avoid these small individuals, but obviously their not. even though they are not mechanically driven the time has come to have some real enforcement regarding cycling. I don't agree with taxation on cycles but they should by law have some form of insurance and registration, we all insure our homes, gas boilers and god knows what else so why no insure a cycle which has the potential to cause serious injury and many pounds worth of damage. Cycles, when on the road can reach speed up to the posted speed limit, on the pavement, if that's the way it's going, they should be restricted to 4mph, the same as a mobility scooter. Pedestrians should feel safe on the pavement, children should feel safe on the pavement, the elderly should feel safe on the pavement other wise the pedestrian will start walking in the road to feel safer. radical
  • Score: 0

10:05am Sun 11 Dec 11

eyeinthesky says...

Wow! The troll had a bad night's sleep!

If the council provided sufficient facilities for cyclists to be able to complete their journies safely on fit-for-purpose cycle lanes I dare say that there wouldn't be cyclists on the pavements. How many "cycle lanes" do we have that just "appear" as suddenly as they disappear on our roads? Call me cynical but it's as though the council are trying to bump up the figures in terms of overall mileage of cycle lanes in the town to meet some kind of government-set target and so any scrap of cycle lane they can provide will count....

as for Cllr Smith not knowing how many people are killed on the roads of Dorset.... If he (or any other elected member of our council) want to be taken seriously during a debate they should do their research properly. All it needed was a phone call to Dorset Police and they would have told him the exact numbers of cyclists who have been killed in any given period of time.

Cyclists come in varying ages and degrees of ability. It is not safe to arbitrarily chuck them all on the roads. This isn't a problem that the cyclists can solve on their own. It's going to require engineering on the part of the council, education and a change of attitude by vehicle drivers. Until that happens it is unfair to penalise cyclists unless it can be shown that they have broken the law in such a way that it puts themselves or any other person at risk of serious harm.
Wow! The troll had a bad night's sleep! If the council provided sufficient facilities for cyclists to be able to complete their journies safely on fit-for-purpose cycle lanes I dare say that there wouldn't be cyclists on the pavements. How many "cycle lanes" do we have that just "appear" as suddenly as they disappear on our roads? Call me cynical but it's as though the council are trying to bump up the figures in terms of overall mileage of cycle lanes in the town to meet some kind of government-set target and so any scrap of cycle lane they can provide will count.... as for Cllr Smith not knowing how many people are killed on the roads of Dorset.... If he (or any other elected member of our council) want to be taken seriously during a debate they should do their research properly. All it needed was a phone call to Dorset Police and they would have told him the exact numbers of cyclists who have been killed in any given period of time. Cyclists come in varying ages and degrees of ability. It is not safe to arbitrarily chuck them all on the roads. This isn't a problem that the cyclists can solve on their own. It's going to require engineering on the part of the council, education and a change of attitude by vehicle drivers. Until that happens it is unfair to penalise cyclists unless it can be shown that they have broken the law in such a way that it puts themselves or any other person at risk of serious harm. eyeinthesky
  • Score: 0

10:11am Sun 11 Dec 11

southbourne lover says...

Although I do not agree with any cyclist being on the pavement A small part of me has a little bit of sympathy for the cyclist who knocked over the little girl. If you have been to Southbourne lately you will know that the pavement is littered with tables, chairs and A boards etc. The shop in question has friut, flowers, christmas trees and plants outside. Coming down the hill anybody would be hard pressed to see a small child come out of the shop until they were in the middle of the pavement and the child would not be able to see anybody walking down let alone a cyclist. Going up the hill the plants on shelves obscure the view completely. If people find their shops are so small that they have to encroach on the pavement then they need to find new premises.
Although I do not agree with any cyclist being on the pavement A small part of me has a little bit of sympathy for the cyclist who knocked over the little girl. If you have been to Southbourne lately you will know that the pavement is littered with tables, chairs and A boards etc. The shop in question has friut, flowers, christmas trees and plants outside. Coming down the hill anybody would be hard pressed to see a small child come out of the shop until they were in the middle of the pavement and the child would not be able to see anybody walking down let alone a cyclist. Going up the hill the plants on shelves obscure the view completely. If people find their shops are so small that they have to encroach on the pavement then they need to find new premises. southbourne lover
  • Score: 0

10:35am Sun 11 Dec 11

radical says...

eyeinthesky wrote:
Wow! The troll had a bad night's sleep!

If the council provided sufficient facilities for cyclists to be able to complete their journies safely on fit-for-purpose cycle lanes I dare say that there wouldn't be cyclists on the pavements. How many "cycle lanes" do we have that just "appear" as suddenly as they disappear on our roads? Call me cynical but it's as though the council are trying to bump up the figures in terms of overall mileage of cycle lanes in the town to meet some kind of government-set target and so any scrap of cycle lane they can provide will count....

as for Cllr Smith not knowing how many people are killed on the roads of Dorset.... If he (or any other elected member of our council) want to be taken seriously during a debate they should do their research properly. All it needed was a phone call to Dorset Police and they would have told him the exact numbers of cyclists who have been killed in any given period of time.

Cyclists come in varying ages and degrees of ability. It is not safe to arbitrarily chuck them all on the roads. This isn't a problem that the cyclists can solve on their own. It's going to require engineering on the part of the council, education and a change of attitude by vehicle drivers. Until that happens it is unfair to penalise cyclists unless it can be shown that they have broken the law in such a way that it puts themselves or any other person at risk of serious harm.
the council already provide facilities for cyclists, it's called the road, the same way the council provide facilities for the safety of pedestrians, the pavement, why should council tax be used to give a selective few their own cycle track.
[quote][p][bold]eyeinthesky[/bold] wrote: Wow! The troll had a bad night's sleep! If the council provided sufficient facilities for cyclists to be able to complete their journies safely on fit-for-purpose cycle lanes I dare say that there wouldn't be cyclists on the pavements. How many "cycle lanes" do we have that just "appear" as suddenly as they disappear on our roads? Call me cynical but it's as though the council are trying to bump up the figures in terms of overall mileage of cycle lanes in the town to meet some kind of government-set target and so any scrap of cycle lane they can provide will count.... as for Cllr Smith not knowing how many people are killed on the roads of Dorset.... If he (or any other elected member of our council) want to be taken seriously during a debate they should do their research properly. All it needed was a phone call to Dorset Police and they would have told him the exact numbers of cyclists who have been killed in any given period of time. Cyclists come in varying ages and degrees of ability. It is not safe to arbitrarily chuck them all on the roads. This isn't a problem that the cyclists can solve on their own. It's going to require engineering on the part of the council, education and a change of attitude by vehicle drivers. Until that happens it is unfair to penalise cyclists unless it can be shown that they have broken the law in such a way that it puts themselves or any other person at risk of serious harm.[/p][/quote]the council already provide facilities for cyclists, it's called the road, the same way the council provide facilities for the safety of pedestrians, the pavement, why should council tax be used to give a selective few their own cycle track. radical
  • Score: 0

10:38am Sun 11 Dec 11

Rich_Enduro says...

well done to Dave Smith for speaking out. the idiot that hit the girl was a lout, not a cyclist.
nothing much is being said about the cyclist who it seems is fighting for his life after being hit by a car on Friday. my thoughts go out to him.

http://www.bournemou
thecho.co.uk/news/94
12493.UPDATED__Cycli
st_suffers_serious_i
njuries_in_Castle_La
ne_crash/?ref=mr
well done to Dave Smith for speaking out. the idiot that hit the girl was a lout, not a cyclist. nothing much is being said about the cyclist who it seems is fighting for his life after being hit by a car on Friday. my thoughts go out to him. http://www.bournemou thecho.co.uk/news/94 12493.UPDATED__Cycli st_suffers_serious_i njuries_in_Castle_La ne_crash/?ref=mr Rich_Enduro
  • Score: 0

10:52am Sun 11 Dec 11

pete woodley says...

Get off your bike smith and try using the pavement,lets see you dodging cyclists,and getting sent flying in Winton,like i was,and then punched when i complained.
Get off your bike smith and try using the pavement,lets see you dodging cyclists,and getting sent flying in Winton,like i was,and then punched when i complained. pete woodley
  • Score: 0

11:04am Sun 11 Dec 11

downfader says...

radical wrote:
eyeinthesky wrote:
Wow! The troll had a bad night's sleep!

If the council provided sufficient facilities for cyclists to be able to complete their journies safely on fit-for-purpose cycle lanes I dare say that there wouldn't be cyclists on the pavements. How many "cycle lanes" do we have that just "appear" as suddenly as they disappear on our roads? Call me cynical but it's as though the council are trying to bump up the figures in terms of overall mileage of cycle lanes in the town to meet some kind of government-set target and so any scrap of cycle lane they can provide will count....

as for Cllr Smith not knowing how many people are killed on the roads of Dorset.... If he (or any other elected member of our council) want to be taken seriously during a debate they should do their research properly. All it needed was a phone call to Dorset Police and they would have told him the exact numbers of cyclists who have been killed in any given period of time.

Cyclists come in varying ages and degrees of ability. It is not safe to arbitrarily chuck them all on the roads. This isn't a problem that the cyclists can solve on their own. It's going to require engineering on the part of the council, education and a change of attitude by vehicle drivers. Until that happens it is unfair to penalise cyclists unless it can be shown that they have broken the law in such a way that it puts themselves or any other person at risk of serious harm.
the council already provide facilities for cyclists, it's called the road, the same way the council provide facilities for the safety of pedestrians, the pavement, why should council tax be used to give a selective few their own cycle track.
Because all the studies abroad show it encourages noncyclists to take it up for utility and health purposes.

People feel safer, confident and able to ride at their own speed rather than trying to match the traffic flow speed.

The German, Danish and Netherlands standards have been shown to cost the taxpayer an average of £20 a person to set up, where as building a mile of motorway can cost 10 times plus that per person.

It will also have a MASSIVE impact on congestion when cyclists get decent routes they are shown to use them (Bristol to Bath railway path). The Oxford rapid bus route, also has a good cycle/shared path. The surrounding roads have had a recent ease in motor traffic where more have cycled as a result.
[quote][p][bold]radical[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]eyeinthesky[/bold] wrote: Wow! The troll had a bad night's sleep! If the council provided sufficient facilities for cyclists to be able to complete their journies safely on fit-for-purpose cycle lanes I dare say that there wouldn't be cyclists on the pavements. How many "cycle lanes" do we have that just "appear" as suddenly as they disappear on our roads? Call me cynical but it's as though the council are trying to bump up the figures in terms of overall mileage of cycle lanes in the town to meet some kind of government-set target and so any scrap of cycle lane they can provide will count.... as for Cllr Smith not knowing how many people are killed on the roads of Dorset.... If he (or any other elected member of our council) want to be taken seriously during a debate they should do their research properly. All it needed was a phone call to Dorset Police and they would have told him the exact numbers of cyclists who have been killed in any given period of time. Cyclists come in varying ages and degrees of ability. It is not safe to arbitrarily chuck them all on the roads. This isn't a problem that the cyclists can solve on their own. It's going to require engineering on the part of the council, education and a change of attitude by vehicle drivers. Until that happens it is unfair to penalise cyclists unless it can be shown that they have broken the law in such a way that it puts themselves or any other person at risk of serious harm.[/p][/quote]the council already provide facilities for cyclists, it's called the road, the same way the council provide facilities for the safety of pedestrians, the pavement, why should council tax be used to give a selective few their own cycle track.[/p][/quote]Because all the studies abroad show it encourages noncyclists to take it up for utility and health purposes. People feel safer, confident and able to ride at their own speed rather than trying to match the traffic flow speed. The German, Danish and Netherlands standards have been shown to cost the taxpayer an average of £20 a person to set up, where as building a mile of motorway can cost 10 times plus that per person. It will also have a MASSIVE impact on congestion when cyclists get decent routes they are shown to use them (Bristol to Bath railway path). The Oxford rapid bus route, also has a good cycle/shared path. The surrounding roads have had a recent ease in motor traffic where more have cycled as a result. downfader
  • Score: 0

11:06am Sun 11 Dec 11

Edwinton says...

nearly every other country in the world allows cyclists to use the pavement if they are careful and us a bell. Bournemouth and the UK are stuck in the past on so many levels
nearly every other country in the world allows cyclists to use the pavement if they are careful and us a bell. Bournemouth and the UK are stuck in the past on so many levels Edwinton
  • Score: 0

11:14am Sun 11 Dec 11

downfader says...

Edwinton wrote:
nearly every other country in the world allows cyclists to use the pavement if they are careful and us a bell. Bournemouth and the UK are stuck in the past on so many levels
Many of us cyclists DONT want to use the pavements. Many of us have felt we've been forced into corrospondence and campaign because of the state of the roads and its users.

And no, you're wrong. Banned in most States in the US, illegal in most of Germany (shared status routes excepted), illegal in Netherlands (you will be fined more than £30 for it iirc too), most countries actually put in place measures to make their road users feel safe (presumed liability, dedicated traffic free bike routes that work, removal of larger HGVs from traffic systems like Dublin, etc)
[quote][p][bold]Edwinton[/bold] wrote: nearly every other country in the world allows cyclists to use the pavement if they are careful and us a bell. Bournemouth and the UK are stuck in the past on so many levels[/p][/quote]Many of us cyclists DONT want to use the pavements. Many of us have felt we've been forced into corrospondence and campaign because of the state of the roads and its users. And no, you're wrong. Banned in most States in the US, illegal in most of Germany (shared status routes excepted), illegal in Netherlands (you will be fined more than £30 for it iirc too), most countries actually put in place measures to make their road users feel safe (presumed liability, dedicated traffic free bike routes that work, removal of larger HGVs from traffic systems like Dublin, etc) downfader
  • Score: 0

11:22am Sun 11 Dec 11

John T says...

It speaks volumes that Cllr Smith, Bournemouth Cabinet Member for Communities and Planning, should suspect there are 'hundreds of people killed on the roads in Dorset every year'.
I suggest you get on your bike, Cllr Smith, and go and look for a job!!
It speaks volumes that Cllr Smith, Bournemouth Cabinet Member for Communities and Planning, should suspect there are 'hundreds of people killed on the roads in Dorset every year'. I suggest you get on your bike, Cllr Smith, and go and look for a job!! John T
  • Score: 0

11:24am Sun 11 Dec 11

*Fiona* says...

Ash_69 wrote:
OMG!! - can't the lazy journo's at echo towers find some other stories - you have been flogging your anti-cyclist campaign for quite a while now. I think all the arguesments ahve been heard again and again and again and again..
I'm sure there are pressing stories out there.
btw - as there has been no mention to it on any other stories - I Hope the lady who was hit at a pedestrian crossing in Ringwood on Friday by a car and received two broken legs makes a good recovery!
The Echo editor is a cyclist.

The Echo didnt care less about sex establishments in the town centre it was reported as a big joke because the editor didnt find them offensive.

Also Ive posted on here and written a letter about patients being abused and dying at the NHS establishment Dorset Healthcare (yes I have evidence) and they didnt bother printing it also didnt leave the posts ppl put on the article about the retiring CEO at Dorset Healthcare that related to abusive/degrading comments about patients put into textbooks by the Head of Psychology and Medical Director.

If it was anything about bloody cyclists I suspect they wouldnt have been so nonchalant....
[quote][p][bold]Ash_69[/bold] wrote: OMG!! - can't the lazy journo's at echo towers find some other stories - you have been flogging your anti-cyclist campaign for quite a while now. I think all the arguesments ahve been heard again and again and again and again.. I'm sure there are pressing stories out there. btw - as there has been no mention to it on any other stories - I Hope the lady who was hit at a pedestrian crossing in Ringwood on Friday by a car and received two broken legs makes a good recovery![/p][/quote]The Echo editor is a cyclist. The Echo didnt care less about sex establishments in the town centre it was reported as a big joke because the editor didnt find them offensive. Also Ive posted on here and written a letter about patients being abused and dying at the NHS establishment Dorset Healthcare (yes I have evidence) and they didnt bother printing it also didnt leave the posts ppl put on the article about the retiring CEO at Dorset Healthcare that related to abusive/degrading comments about patients put into textbooks by the Head of Psychology and Medical Director. If it was anything about bloody cyclists I suspect they wouldnt have been so nonchalant.... *Fiona*
  • Score: 0

11:30am Sun 11 Dec 11

jobsworthwatch says...

Official national stats. indicate that cyclists are the most vulnerable road users and clearly the actions of our councillors suggest that they want to keep it that way!
If our councillors had checked the local stats, they would have seen that in recent years in the order of 20 cyclists have been killed on local roads by cars, not to mention those seriously injured. In the same period I think they would also have found that no pedestrians have been killed by cyclists on pavements.
Painting cycle tracks in the gutter on the towns main thoroughfares provides little or no safeguards to cyclists but moving the kerb where necessary and putting the track on the pavement would!
Most pavements are deserted, therefore making all pavements shared routes would save lives!
Official national stats. indicate that cyclists are the most vulnerable road users and clearly the actions of our councillors suggest that they want to keep it that way! If our councillors had checked the local stats, they would have seen that in recent years in the order of 20 cyclists have been killed on local roads by cars, not to mention those seriously injured. In the same period I think they would also have found that no pedestrians have been killed by cyclists on pavements. Painting cycle tracks in the gutter on the towns main thoroughfares provides little or no safeguards to cyclists but moving the kerb where necessary and putting the track on the pavement would! Most pavements are deserted, therefore making all pavements shared routes would save lives! jobsworthwatch
  • Score: 0

11:32am Sun 11 Dec 11

downfader says...

John T wrote:
It speaks volumes that Cllr Smith, Bournemouth Cabinet Member for Communities and Planning, should suspect there are 'hundreds of people killed on the roads in Dorset every year'.
I suggest you get on your bike, Cllr Smith, and go and look for a job!!
Er he's pretty close actually:

http://www.bbc.co.uk
/news/uk-15975564

Click on "Did you know" and then "localism" Over 90 people killed a year on a 10 year average.
[quote][p][bold]John T[/bold] wrote: It speaks volumes that Cllr Smith, Bournemouth Cabinet Member for Communities and Planning, should suspect there are 'hundreds of people killed on the roads in Dorset every year'. I suggest you get on your bike, Cllr Smith, and go and look for a job!![/p][/quote]Er he's pretty close actually: http://www.bbc.co.uk /news/uk-15975564 Click on "Did you know" and then "localism" Over 90 people killed a year on a 10 year average. downfader
  • Score: 0

11:33am Sun 11 Dec 11

downfader says...

I'll also add in this:

http://www.ctc.org.u
k/resources/Campaign
s/1110_Cyclists-beha
viour-and-law__4M__b
rf_rev_.pdf

Some facts and figures about cycling and its risks. Even noncyclists should read this imo.
I'll also add in this: http://www.ctc.org.u k/resources/Campaign s/1110_Cyclists-beha viour-and-law__4M__b rf_rev_.pdf Some facts and figures about cycling and its risks. Even noncyclists should read this imo. downfader
  • Score: 0

11:58am Sun 11 Dec 11

jobsworthwatch says...

downfader wrote:
I'll also add in this:

http://www.ctc.org.u

k/resources/Campaign

s/1110_Cyclists-beha

viour-and-law__4M__b

rf_rev_.pdf

Some facts and figures about cycling and its risks. Even noncyclists should read this imo.
Clearly the councillors didn't read it, especially Anne Filer before passing the motion.
[quote][p][bold]downfader[/bold] wrote: I'll also add in this: http://www.ctc.org.u k/resources/Campaign s/1110_Cyclists-beha viour-and-law__4M__b rf_rev_.pdf Some facts and figures about cycling and its risks. Even noncyclists should read this imo.[/p][/quote]Clearly the councillors didn't read it, especially Anne Filer before passing the motion. jobsworthwatch
  • Score: 0

12:02pm Sun 11 Dec 11

Phixer says...

MandinVerwood wrote:
Get bylawes passed so that all bikes and completly banned from Bournemouth and the local areas - be it on the road, seafront, off-road or even children's bikes.
.
We don't want them - okay it will put people out of jobs, create more issues with travelling and congestion and make people unfitter - but at least I don't have to look at them - as it offends me!
.
What we need is to take Bournemouth back and make it like it was in the 50's - Great for old people. We don't want other people here - this should be for people to retire to - maybe a few younger people to look after us - but that's all!
What an oxymoron !

Take B'mth back to the 50's but ban bikes? There were more cyclists than motorists then. I didn't feel unsafe cycling to school or elsewhere.
[quote][p][bold]MandinVerwood[/bold] wrote: Get bylawes passed so that all bikes and completly banned from Bournemouth and the local areas - be it on the road, seafront, off-road or even children's bikes. . We don't want them - okay it will put people out of jobs, create more issues with travelling and congestion and make people unfitter - but at least I don't have to look at them - as it offends me! . What we need is to take Bournemouth back and make it like it was in the 50's - Great for old people. We don't want other people here - this should be for people to retire to - maybe a few younger people to look after us - but that's all![/p][/quote]What an oxymoron [in more ways than one]! Take B'mth back to the 50's but ban bikes? There were more cyclists than motorists then. I didn't feel unsafe cycling to school or elsewhere. Phixer
  • Score: 0

12:06pm Sun 11 Dec 11

Phixer says...

downfader wrote:
radical wrote:
eyeinthesky wrote:
Wow! The troll had a bad night's sleep!

If the council provided sufficient facilities for cyclists to be able to complete their journies safely on fit-for-purpose cycle lanes I dare say that there wouldn't be cyclists on the pavements. How many "cycle lanes" do we have that just "appear" as suddenly as they disappear on our roads? Call me cynical but it's as though the council are trying to bump up the figures in terms of overall mileage of cycle lanes in the town to meet some kind of government-set target and so any scrap of cycle lane they can provide will count....

as for Cllr Smith not knowing how many people are killed on the roads of Dorset.... If he (or any other elected member of our council) want to be taken seriously during a debate they should do their research properly. All it needed was a phone call to Dorset Police and they would have told him the exact numbers of cyclists who have been killed in any given period of time.

Cyclists come in varying ages and degrees of ability. It is not safe to arbitrarily chuck them all on the roads. This isn't a problem that the cyclists can solve on their own. It's going to require engineering on the part of the council, education and a change of attitude by vehicle drivers. Until that happens it is unfair to penalise cyclists unless it can be shown that they have broken the law in such a way that it puts themselves or any other person at risk of serious harm.
the council already provide facilities for cyclists, it's called the road, the same way the council provide facilities for the safety of pedestrians, the pavement, why should council tax be used to give a selective few their own cycle track.
Because all the studies abroad show it encourages noncyclists to take it up for utility and health purposes.

People feel safer, confident and able to ride at their own speed rather than trying to match the traffic flow speed.

The German, Danish and Netherlands standards have been shown to cost the taxpayer an average of £20 a person to set up, where as building a mile of motorway can cost 10 times plus that per person.

It will also have a MASSIVE impact on congestion when cyclists get decent routes they are shown to use them (Bristol to Bath railway path). The Oxford rapid bus route, also has a good cycle/shared path. The surrounding roads have had a recent ease in motor traffic where more have cycled as a result.
"The German, Danish and Netherlands standards have been shown to cost the taxpayer an average of £20 a person to set up"


Yes, but at least they don't over-engineer the cycle routes, flood them with useless signs, or spend a lot of money on 20 yards of diverted cycle lanes.
[quote][p][bold]downfader[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]radical[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]eyeinthesky[/bold] wrote: Wow! The troll had a bad night's sleep! If the council provided sufficient facilities for cyclists to be able to complete their journies safely on fit-for-purpose cycle lanes I dare say that there wouldn't be cyclists on the pavements. How many "cycle lanes" do we have that just "appear" as suddenly as they disappear on our roads? Call me cynical but it's as though the council are trying to bump up the figures in terms of overall mileage of cycle lanes in the town to meet some kind of government-set target and so any scrap of cycle lane they can provide will count.... as for Cllr Smith not knowing how many people are killed on the roads of Dorset.... If he (or any other elected member of our council) want to be taken seriously during a debate they should do their research properly. All it needed was a phone call to Dorset Police and they would have told him the exact numbers of cyclists who have been killed in any given period of time. Cyclists come in varying ages and degrees of ability. It is not safe to arbitrarily chuck them all on the roads. This isn't a problem that the cyclists can solve on their own. It's going to require engineering on the part of the council, education and a change of attitude by vehicle drivers. Until that happens it is unfair to penalise cyclists unless it can be shown that they have broken the law in such a way that it puts themselves or any other person at risk of serious harm.[/p][/quote]the council already provide facilities for cyclists, it's called the road, the same way the council provide facilities for the safety of pedestrians, the pavement, why should council tax be used to give a selective few their own cycle track.[/p][/quote]Because all the studies abroad show it encourages noncyclists to take it up for utility and health purposes. People feel safer, confident and able to ride at their own speed rather than trying to match the traffic flow speed. The German, Danish and Netherlands standards have been shown to cost the taxpayer an average of £20 a person to set up, where as building a mile of motorway can cost 10 times plus that per person. It will also have a MASSIVE impact on congestion when cyclists get decent routes they are shown to use them (Bristol to Bath railway path). The Oxford rapid bus route, also has a good cycle/shared path. The surrounding roads have had a recent ease in motor traffic where more have cycled as a result.[/p][/quote]"The German, Danish and Netherlands standards have been shown to cost the taxpayer an average of £20 a person to set up" Yes, but at least they don't over-engineer the cycle routes, flood them with useless signs, or spend a lot of money on 20 yards of diverted cycle lanes. Phixer
  • Score: 0

12:16pm Sun 11 Dec 11

downfader says...

Phixer wrote:
downfader wrote:
radical wrote:
eyeinthesky wrote:
Wow! The troll had a bad night's sleep!

If the council provided sufficient facilities for cyclists to be able to complete their journies safely on fit-for-purpose cycle lanes I dare say that there wouldn't be cyclists on the pavements. How many "cycle lanes" do we have that just "appear" as suddenly as they disappear on our roads? Call me cynical but it's as though the council are trying to bump up the figures in terms of overall mileage of cycle lanes in the town to meet some kind of government-set target and so any scrap of cycle lane they can provide will count....

as for Cllr Smith not knowing how many people are killed on the roads of Dorset.... If he (or any other elected member of our council) want to be taken seriously during a debate they should do their research properly. All it needed was a phone call to Dorset Police and they would have told him the exact numbers of cyclists who have been killed in any given period of time.

Cyclists come in varying ages and degrees of ability. It is not safe to arbitrarily chuck them all on the roads. This isn't a problem that the cyclists can solve on their own. It's going to require engineering on the part of the council, education and a change of attitude by vehicle drivers. Until that happens it is unfair to penalise cyclists unless it can be shown that they have broken the law in such a way that it puts themselves or any other person at risk of serious harm.
the council already provide facilities for cyclists, it's called the road, the same way the council provide facilities for the safety of pedestrians, the pavement, why should council tax be used to give a selective few their own cycle track.
Because all the studies abroad show it encourages noncyclists to take it up for utility and health purposes.

People feel safer, confident and able to ride at their own speed rather than trying to match the traffic flow speed.

The German, Danish and Netherlands standards have been shown to cost the taxpayer an average of £20 a person to set up, where as building a mile of motorway can cost 10 times plus that per person.

It will also have a MASSIVE impact on congestion when cyclists get decent routes they are shown to use them (Bristol to Bath railway path). The Oxford rapid bus route, also has a good cycle/shared path. The surrounding roads have had a recent ease in motor traffic where more have cycled as a result.
"The German, Danish and Netherlands standards have been shown to cost the taxpayer an average of £20 a person to set up"


Yes, but at least they don't over-engineer the cycle routes, flood them with useless signs, or spend a lot of money on 20 yards of diverted cycle lanes.
True. We do have standards published by Westminster, however they're largely ignored.
[quote][p][bold]Phixer[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]downfader[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]radical[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]eyeinthesky[/bold] wrote: Wow! The troll had a bad night's sleep! If the council provided sufficient facilities for cyclists to be able to complete their journies safely on fit-for-purpose cycle lanes I dare say that there wouldn't be cyclists on the pavements. How many "cycle lanes" do we have that just "appear" as suddenly as they disappear on our roads? Call me cynical but it's as though the council are trying to bump up the figures in terms of overall mileage of cycle lanes in the town to meet some kind of government-set target and so any scrap of cycle lane they can provide will count.... as for Cllr Smith not knowing how many people are killed on the roads of Dorset.... If he (or any other elected member of our council) want to be taken seriously during a debate they should do their research properly. All it needed was a phone call to Dorset Police and they would have told him the exact numbers of cyclists who have been killed in any given period of time. Cyclists come in varying ages and degrees of ability. It is not safe to arbitrarily chuck them all on the roads. This isn't a problem that the cyclists can solve on their own. It's going to require engineering on the part of the council, education and a change of attitude by vehicle drivers. Until that happens it is unfair to penalise cyclists unless it can be shown that they have broken the law in such a way that it puts themselves or any other person at risk of serious harm.[/p][/quote]the council already provide facilities for cyclists, it's called the road, the same way the council provide facilities for the safety of pedestrians, the pavement, why should council tax be used to give a selective few their own cycle track.[/p][/quote]Because all the studies abroad show it encourages noncyclists to take it up for utility and health purposes. People feel safer, confident and able to ride at their own speed rather than trying to match the traffic flow speed. The German, Danish and Netherlands standards have been shown to cost the taxpayer an average of £20 a person to set up, where as building a mile of motorway can cost 10 times plus that per person. It will also have a MASSIVE impact on congestion when cyclists get decent routes they are shown to use them (Bristol to Bath railway path). The Oxford rapid bus route, also has a good cycle/shared path. The surrounding roads have had a recent ease in motor traffic where more have cycled as a result.[/p][/quote]"The German, Danish and Netherlands standards have been shown to cost the taxpayer an average of £20 a person to set up" Yes, but at least they don't over-engineer the cycle routes, flood them with useless signs, or spend a lot of money on 20 yards of diverted cycle lanes.[/p][/quote]True. We do have standards published by Westminster, however they're largely ignored. downfader
  • Score: 0

12:44pm Sun 11 Dec 11

Couchy125 says...

At 1am this morning I saw 2 cyclists ride down markam road winton the
Wrong way down the one way stretch. Then they turned into heron court road towards alma road. They came across the temp traffic lights on heron court road and decided to jump the red light. A car coming through the lights the other way had to slam his brakes on to stop a disaster. And all he got for his action was the two finger salute. Oh a d by the way both were dressed in dark clothing and yes you guessed it no LIGHTS. You were all very close to reading the headline. Two bike riders killed in winton...
At 1am this morning I saw 2 cyclists ride down markam road winton the Wrong way down the one way stretch. Then they turned into heron court road towards alma road. They came across the temp traffic lights on heron court road and decided to jump the red light. A car coming through the lights the other way had to slam his brakes on to stop a disaster. And all he got for his action was the two finger salute. Oh a d by the way both were dressed in dark clothing and yes you guessed it no LIGHTS. You were all very close to reading the headline. Two bike riders killed in winton... Couchy125
  • Score: 0

12:55pm Sun 11 Dec 11

Adrian XX says...

Before we get cyclists off the pavement, we need to get cars off the pavement. Look along most residential streets in Poole and you will find parked cars on the pavement. Parking on the pavement is illegal and it causes obstruction to wheelchair users and sometimes ordinary pedestrians. Given the prevalence of pavement parking, I guess that there are at least some injuries every year that happen at the point when people are driving on or off the pavement.
Before we get cyclists off the pavement, we need to get cars off the pavement. Look along most residential streets in Poole and you will find parked cars on the pavement. Parking on the pavement is illegal and it causes obstruction to wheelchair users and sometimes ordinary pedestrians. Given the prevalence of pavement parking, I guess that there are at least some injuries every year that happen at the point when people are driving on or off the pavement. Adrian XX
  • Score: 0

1:01pm Sun 11 Dec 11

H2o-hara says...

Why not create bicycle paths like the rest of Europe has since 1950's ?
Why not create bicycle paths like the rest of Europe has since 1950's ? H2o-hara
  • Score: 0

1:07pm Sun 11 Dec 11

pete woodley says...

Adrianxx,Parked cars on columbia rd,between hendford rd and draycott rd,some for sale, see for yourself Police and council do nothing.
Adrianxx,Parked cars on columbia rd,between hendford rd and draycott rd,some for sale, see for yourself Police and council do nothing. pete woodley
  • Score: 0

1:20pm Sun 11 Dec 11

saynomore says...

H2o-hara wrote:
Why not create bicycle paths like the rest of Europe has since 1950's ?
Because the arrogant sods dont use cycle lanes now,the road from Darbys corner to Gravel hill, and Ham Lane Longham are two prime examples,If there is a cycle lane provided and these arrogant cyclists use the road then they should be fined accordingly.
[quote][p][bold]H2o-hara[/bold] wrote: Why not create bicycle paths like the rest of Europe has since 1950's ?[/p][/quote]Because the arrogant sods dont use cycle lanes now,the road from Darbys corner to Gravel hill, and Ham Lane Longham are two prime examples,If there is a cycle lane provided and these arrogant cyclists use the road then they should be fined accordingly. saynomore
  • Score: 0

1:41pm Sun 11 Dec 11

jamesba says...

When are you guys hoping the Council will magically transform and make good decisions?

La la la la *fingers in ears*

WAKE. UP.
When are you guys hoping the Council will magically transform and make good decisions? La la la la *fingers in ears* WAKE. UP. jamesba
  • Score: 0

1:56pm Sun 11 Dec 11

oriteroom says...

The BBC recently published all road traffic deaths in England from 199-2010.

http://www.bbc.co.uk
/news/uk-15975720

Out of 49 deaths on roads in the Bournemouth area, 21, - yes 43%, were cyclists!! It's worse to cycle in Bournemouth than Manchester, Liverpool and many parts of London. The corridor from the Mountbatten Arms to Cemetery Juction (A3049/A347) scored the worst at 6.

Confirms my experience of the total lack of respect for cyclist on the road. If it's that many deaths then I dread to think of the odd broken limbs etc.
The BBC recently published all road traffic deaths in England from 199-2010. http://www.bbc.co.uk /news/uk-15975720 Out of 49 deaths on roads in the Bournemouth area, 21, - yes 43%, were cyclists!! It's worse to cycle in Bournemouth than Manchester, Liverpool and many parts of London. The corridor from the Mountbatten Arms to Cemetery Juction (A3049/A347) scored the worst at 6. Confirms my experience of the total lack of respect for cyclist on the road. If it's that many deaths then I dread to think of the odd broken limbs etc. oriteroom
  • Score: 0

2:08pm Sun 11 Dec 11

downfader says...

saynomore wrote:
H2o-hara wrote:
Why not create bicycle paths like the rest of Europe has since 1950's ?
Because the arrogant sods dont use cycle lanes now,the road from Darbys corner to Gravel hill, and Ham Lane Longham are two prime examples,If there is a cycle lane provided and these arrogant cyclists use the road then they should be fined accordingly.
And this just shows you haven't been paying attention to the debate - the off-road routes the UK currently have implemented do not work.

"Saynomore" more like "talkingnonsense"

For a route to have proper uptake (as I said earlier the Oxford and Bristol/Bath routes are excellent examples where this has happened) it needs to be:

-continuous
-good surfacing
-wide (to reduce conflict between other riders and pedestrians, and to allow faster riders to pass the slower)
-well signposted
-well lit
-good access points (eg dropped kerbs to get from the road into the facility)
-safe and secure (a high incidence of muggings and rapes have occured in places like Milton Keynes, Manchester off-road routes, etc)

We've only 2 real examples of this NEARLY being accomplished. All of this is in the Westminster standards that have been pubished but they're ignored by planners and officials, usually in favour of motoring.
[quote][p][bold]saynomore[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]H2o-hara[/bold] wrote: Why not create bicycle paths like the rest of Europe has since 1950's ?[/p][/quote]Because the arrogant sods dont use cycle lanes now,the road from Darbys corner to Gravel hill, and Ham Lane Longham are two prime examples,If there is a cycle lane provided and these arrogant cyclists use the road then they should be fined accordingly.[/p][/quote]And this just shows you haven't been paying attention to the debate - the off-road routes the UK currently have implemented do not work. "Saynomore" more like "talkingnonsense" For a route to have proper uptake (as I said earlier the Oxford and Bristol/Bath routes are excellent examples where this has happened) it needs to be: -continuous -good surfacing -wide (to reduce conflict between other riders and pedestrians, and to allow faster riders to pass the slower) -well signposted -well lit -good access points (eg dropped kerbs to get from the road into the facility) -safe and secure (a high incidence of muggings and rapes have occured in places like Milton Keynes, Manchester off-road routes, etc) We've only 2 real examples of this NEARLY being accomplished. All of this is in the Westminster standards that have been pubished but they're ignored by planners and officials, usually in favour of motoring. downfader
  • Score: 0

2:11pm Sun 11 Dec 11

saynomore says...

oriteroom wrote:
The BBC recently published all road traffic deaths in England from 199-2010.

http://www.bbc.co.uk

/news/uk-15975720

Out of 49 deaths on roads in the Bournemouth area, 21, - yes 43%, were cyclists!! It's worse to cycle in Bournemouth than Manchester, Liverpool and many parts of London. The corridor from the Mountbatten Arms to Cemetery Juction (A3049/A347) scored the worst at 6.

Confirms my experience of the total lack of respect for cyclist on the road. If it's that many deaths then I dread to think of the odd broken limbs etc.
When cyclists show respect for everyone else then you may have a case,examples Jumong red Lights,no lights on their cycles,no bells when tearing up behond pedestrians and the suicial trent of wearing all black clothing,it is as if they are trying to get killed.Out of your 43% how many deaths were the fault of the said cyclists,it is all very well coming up with percentages but they need to be put into context.It is my fear as a responsible motorist (and part time cyclist) that I could cause the death of some irresponsible cyclist acting stupidly.
[quote][p][bold]oriteroom[/bold] wrote: The BBC recently published all road traffic deaths in England from 199-2010. http://www.bbc.co.uk /news/uk-15975720 Out of 49 deaths on roads in the Bournemouth area, 21, - yes 43%, were cyclists!! It's worse to cycle in Bournemouth than Manchester, Liverpool and many parts of London. The corridor from the Mountbatten Arms to Cemetery Juction (A3049/A347) scored the worst at 6. Confirms my experience of the total lack of respect for cyclist on the road. If it's that many deaths then I dread to think of the odd broken limbs etc.[/p][/quote]When cyclists show respect for everyone else then you may have a case,examples Jumong red Lights,no lights on their cycles,no bells when tearing up behond pedestrians and the suicial trent of wearing all black clothing,it is as if they are trying to get killed.Out of your 43% how many deaths were the fault of the said cyclists,it is all very well coming up with percentages but they need to be put into context.It is my fear as a responsible motorist (and part time cyclist) that I could cause the death of some irresponsible cyclist acting stupidly. saynomore
  • Score: 0

2:16pm Sun 11 Dec 11

Couchy125 says...

pete woodley wrote:
Adrianxx,Parked cars on columbia rd,between hendford rd and draycott rd,some for sale, see for yourself Police and council do nothing.
And also pete all the cars parked on double yellow lines all evening outside the talbot rise club. The police turn a blind eye to that one.
[quote][p][bold]pete woodley[/bold] wrote: Adrianxx,Parked cars on columbia rd,between hendford rd and draycott rd,some for sale, see for yourself Police and council do nothing.[/p][/quote]And also pete all the cars parked on double yellow lines all evening outside the talbot rise club. The police turn a blind eye to that one. Couchy125
  • Score: 0

2:18pm Sun 11 Dec 11

downfader says...

saynomore wrote:
oriteroom wrote:
The BBC recently published all road traffic deaths in England from 199-2010.

http://www.bbc.co.uk


/news/uk-15975720

Out of 49 deaths on roads in the Bournemouth area, 21, - yes 43%, were cyclists!! It's worse to cycle in Bournemouth than Manchester, Liverpool and many parts of London. The corridor from the Mountbatten Arms to Cemetery Juction (A3049/A347) scored the worst at 6.

Confirms my experience of the total lack of respect for cyclist on the road. If it's that many deaths then I dread to think of the odd broken limbs etc.
When cyclists show respect for everyone else then you may have a case,examples Jumong red Lights,no lights on their cycles,no bells when tearing up behond pedestrians and the suicial trent of wearing all black clothing,it is as if they are trying to get killed.Out of your 43% how many deaths were the fault of the said cyclists,it is all very well coming up with percentages but they need to be put into context.It is my fear as a responsible motorist (and part time cyclist) that I could cause the death of some irresponsible cyclist acting stupidly.
Absolute rubbish. Those that die or are seriously injured are in the majority not law breakers. Read the CTC document I posted above: only 10% were fully to blame for their resulting injury or death.

Why should the majority be treated with disregard because of a few (and the same goes for motorists - those who kill dont bring a "bad reputation" upon all motorists, do they now).

From your earlier comment it is clear you dont actually understand what "irresponsible" is. You after all made assumptions and unwarranted complaint as to cyclepaths.
[quote][p][bold]saynomore[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]oriteroom[/bold] wrote: The BBC recently published all road traffic deaths in England from 199-2010. http://www.bbc.co.uk /news/uk-15975720 Out of 49 deaths on roads in the Bournemouth area, 21, - yes 43%, were cyclists!! It's worse to cycle in Bournemouth than Manchester, Liverpool and many parts of London. The corridor from the Mountbatten Arms to Cemetery Juction (A3049/A347) scored the worst at 6. Confirms my experience of the total lack of respect for cyclist on the road. If it's that many deaths then I dread to think of the odd broken limbs etc.[/p][/quote]When cyclists show respect for everyone else then you may have a case,examples Jumong red Lights,no lights on their cycles,no bells when tearing up behond pedestrians and the suicial trent of wearing all black clothing,it is as if they are trying to get killed.Out of your 43% how many deaths were the fault of the said cyclists,it is all very well coming up with percentages but they need to be put into context.It is my fear as a responsible motorist (and part time cyclist) that I could cause the death of some irresponsible cyclist acting stupidly.[/p][/quote]Absolute rubbish. Those that die or are seriously injured are in the majority not law breakers. Read the CTC document I posted above: only 10% were fully to blame for their resulting injury or death. Why should the majority be treated with disregard because of a few (and the same goes for motorists - those who kill dont bring a "bad reputation" upon all motorists, do they now). From your earlier comment it is clear you dont actually understand what "irresponsible" is. You after all made assumptions and unwarranted complaint as to cyclepaths. downfader
  • Score: 0

2:30pm Sun 11 Dec 11

Bmthbeach says...

Cyclists, like motorists, should be forced to take out insurance. They should also be asked to contribute to paying for an improvement to cycle lanes, which should be much improved. Most cyclists are very responsible but an increasing number either have no knowledge of the law or any intention of keep it if they do. If a cyclist is proven to have been responsible for causing an accident I am not sure, but suspect that the victim will have to sue or sing for redress.
Cyclists, like motorists, should be forced to take out insurance. They should also be asked to contribute to paying for an improvement to cycle lanes, which should be much improved. Most cyclists are very responsible but an increasing number either have no knowledge of the law or any intention of keep it if they do. If a cyclist is proven to have been responsible for causing an accident I am not sure, but suspect that the victim will have to sue or sing for redress. Bmthbeach
  • Score: 0

2:31pm Sun 11 Dec 11

cardomon says...

This motorists v cyclists argument puts the statement "two bald men fighting over a comb" into context.

As a town The standard of driving in Bournemouth is only equalled by the standard of cycling. Both are appalling. The problem being that when bad drivers meet bad cyclists there is only one side that is going to get hurt.

Compuslory annual driving tests after the age of 70 and police to confiscate bikes caught cycling on the pavement would be a start.
This motorists v cyclists argument puts the statement "two bald men fighting over a comb" into context. As a town The standard of driving in Bournemouth is only equalled by the standard of cycling. Both are appalling. The problem being that when bad drivers meet bad cyclists there is only one side that is going to get hurt. Compuslory annual driving tests after the age of 70 and police to confiscate bikes caught cycling on the pavement would be a start. cardomon
  • Score: 0

2:34pm Sun 11 Dec 11

pete woodley says...

Couchy125 wrote:
pete woodley wrote:
Adrianxx,Parked cars on columbia rd,between hendford rd and draycott rd,some for sale, see for yourself Police and council do nothing.
And also pete all the cars parked on double yellow lines all evening outside the talbot rise club. The police turn a blind eye to that one.
Sorry couchy125 i forgot them,its been going on for ages,but of course they are only drinking tea!.
[quote][p][bold]Couchy125[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pete woodley[/bold] wrote: Adrianxx,Parked cars on columbia rd,between hendford rd and draycott rd,some for sale, see for yourself Police and council do nothing.[/p][/quote]And also pete all the cars parked on double yellow lines all evening outside the talbot rise club. The police turn a blind eye to that one.[/p][/quote]Sorry couchy125 i forgot them,its been going on for ages,but of course they are only drinking tea!. pete woodley
  • Score: 0

2:46pm Sun 11 Dec 11

downfader says...

Bmthbeach wrote:
Cyclists, like motorists, should be forced to take out insurance. They should also be asked to contribute to paying for an improvement to cycle lanes, which should be much improved. Most cyclists are very responsible but an increasing number either have no knowledge of the law or any intention of keep it if they do. If a cyclist is proven to have been responsible for causing an accident I am not sure, but suspect that the victim will have to sue or sing for redress.
For any government to pass legislation on compulsary insurance they have to see proof that there is indeed a real risk from that section of society.

Show me real statistical evidence, not anecdotal of people moaning on the web, and you may have a case. As it is the CTC and many campaign groups have shown counter to your opinion.

It would be a waste of beaurocracy. (How ironic)

And contribute what, exactly? Some kind of tax? Are you really suggesting that council tax, income tax, VAT are not enough?

We need MORE people on bikes, not less. Adding more redtape will only deter more people.
[quote][p][bold]Bmthbeach[/bold] wrote: Cyclists, like motorists, should be forced to take out insurance. They should also be asked to contribute to paying for an improvement to cycle lanes, which should be much improved. Most cyclists are very responsible but an increasing number either have no knowledge of the law or any intention of keep it if they do. If a cyclist is proven to have been responsible for causing an accident I am not sure, but suspect that the victim will have to sue or sing for redress.[/p][/quote]For any government to pass legislation on compulsary insurance they have to see proof that there is indeed a real risk from that section of society. Show me real statistical evidence, not anecdotal of people moaning on the web, and you may have a case. As it is the CTC and many campaign groups have shown counter to your opinion. It would be a waste of beaurocracy. (How ironic) And contribute what, exactly? Some kind of tax? Are you really suggesting that council tax, income tax, VAT are not enough? We need MORE people on bikes, not less. Adding more redtape will only deter more people. downfader
  • Score: 0

3:33pm Sun 11 Dec 11

cyclejim says...

How many voters don't drive? How many voters don't cycle? Any council action against cyclists will always be more popular.
How many voters don't drive? How many voters don't cycle? Any council action against cyclists will always be more popular. cyclejim
  • Score: 0

3:50pm Sun 11 Dec 11

Gordon Cann says...

In April 1945 a group of fourteen year olds . myself included safely cycled from Blandford to the beach at Bournemouth which had just been reopened, We had a freedom present day youngsters are denied

Most medical evidence suggests we are sitting on a time bomb as life span increases and obesity and diabetic problems increase

Of course cycling should be encouraged and our roads be made safer but of course it wont happen. We have lost touch woth certain realities
In April 1945 a group of fourteen year olds . myself included safely cycled from Blandford to the beach at Bournemouth which had just been reopened, We had a freedom present day youngsters are denied Most medical evidence suggests we are sitting on a time bomb as life span increases and obesity and diabetic problems increase Of course cycling should be encouraged and our roads be made safer but of course it wont happen. We have lost touch woth certain realities Gordon Cann
  • Score: 0

3:55pm Sun 11 Dec 11

pete woodley says...

cyclejim wrote:
How many voters don't drive? How many voters don't cycle? Any council action against cyclists will always be more popular.
Seeing more people do not vote than vote,how do you work out your theory then.
[quote][p][bold]cyclejim[/bold] wrote: How many voters don't drive? How many voters don't cycle? Any council action against cyclists will always be more popular.[/p][/quote]Seeing more people do not vote than vote,how do you work out your theory then. pete woodley
  • Score: 0

5:33pm Sun 11 Dec 11

old git 2 says...

its about time the cyclists actually used the cycle lanes that they are provided with - how many times do you drive along a road with a cycle lane and see a cyclist sat in the middle of the caridgeway!

and as for police enforceing parked vehicles - its a civil matter and not one for the police!

i see no problems with cyclists using the pavements RESPONSIBILY! (on busy roads such as Wimborne rd where there are no lanes for them!) just the same as pedrestrians and invilid scooters do. But this is about educating EVERYONE - not just cyclists or pedrestrens.

yes - cyclists should have some form of insurance. it could be an addition to their buildings / contents / personal liaibility.

Im a driver and a cyclist. I use cycle lanes. i am lit up like a christmas tree at night! i do everything in my power to make myself visable to ALL road users.
i care about my health and safety and will do everything in my power to ensure that i protect myself against stupid people!
its about time the cyclists actually used the cycle lanes that they are provided with - how many times do you drive along a road with a cycle lane and see a cyclist sat in the middle of the caridgeway! and as for police enforceing parked vehicles - its a civil matter and not one for the police! i see no problems with cyclists using the pavements RESPONSIBILY! (on busy roads such as Wimborne rd where there are no lanes for them!) just the same as pedrestrians and invilid scooters do. But this is about educating EVERYONE - not just cyclists or pedrestrens. yes - cyclists should have some form of insurance. it could be an addition to their buildings / contents / personal liaibility. Im a driver and a cyclist. I use cycle lanes. i am lit up like a christmas tree at night! i do everything in my power to make myself visable to ALL road users. i care about my health and safety and will do everything in my power to ensure that i protect myself against stupid people! old git 2
  • Score: 0

5:38pm Sun 11 Dec 11

pete woodley says...

Old git 2,for your benefit,parking on pavements IS a police matter,ASK the council.
Old git 2,for your benefit,parking on pavements IS a police matter,ASK the council. pete woodley
  • Score: 0

5:43pm Sun 11 Dec 11

cyclejim says...

You can change the word voters for people if you like as there are plenty of non-voters who are quick to complain when something happens they don't agree with. I'm not against people of any mode of transport being made to do so safely and within the law, but Cllr Smith is right - there has been far more action in the Echo and Town Hall from a girl suffering broken legs by a bike compared to dozens of deaths on Dorset's roads by cars.
.
Personally I think all such articles shouldn't allow comments as nobody knows what happened in any case and it just brings about prejudice, but a few weeks ago when asked on twitter why the Sienna story allowed comments and a couple of other articles involving injuries from car crashes didn't, the Echo replied it was because the Sienna story involved a police appeal. Just yesterday there was a police appeal involving a cyclist knocked off his bike by a car - no comments allowed. So the Echo lied about their policy.
You can change the word voters for people if you like as there are plenty of non-voters who are quick to complain when something happens they don't agree with. I'm not against people of any mode of transport being made to do so safely and within the law, but Cllr Smith is right - there has been far more action in the Echo and Town Hall from a girl suffering broken legs by a bike compared to dozens of deaths on Dorset's roads by cars. . Personally I think all such articles shouldn't allow comments as nobody knows what happened in any case and it just brings about prejudice, but a few weeks ago when asked on twitter why the Sienna story allowed comments and a couple of other articles involving injuries from car crashes didn't, the Echo replied it was because the Sienna story involved a police appeal. Just yesterday there was a police appeal involving a cyclist knocked off his bike by a car - no comments allowed. So the Echo lied about their policy. cyclejim
  • Score: 0

5:48pm Sun 11 Dec 11

MandinVerwood says...

The moajority of cycle lanes are ill thought out and not up to the job - Also not suitable for a lot of racing bikes either which travel too fast for them.
.
If i'm pootling along then I will use one, but if i'm out on my racer, you will find me in the middle of the road in the primary position and riding where it proven to be safest!
.
Most car drivers would never try to bully a horse & rider off the road - but too many try and do it with the cyclsits.
.
So people who are not as confident will seek to ride on the pavements or go into the cycle lanes looking for safety - not realising how dangerous a lot of them are.
The moajority of cycle lanes are ill thought out and not up to the job - Also not suitable for a lot of racing bikes either which travel too fast for them. . If i'm pootling along then I will use one, but if i'm out on my racer, you will find me in the middle of the road in the primary position and riding where it proven to be safest! . Most car drivers would never try to bully a horse & rider off the road - but too many try and do it with the cyclsits. . So people who are not as confident will seek to ride on the pavements or go into the cycle lanes looking for safety - not realising how dangerous a lot of them are. MandinVerwood
  • Score: 0

5:48pm Sun 11 Dec 11

Peggy Babcock says...

Yawn. Same thread, different week. When will it cease? There are bad cyclists as well as bad motorists - the bottom line is it is the INDIVIDUALS who are at fault so tarring everyone with the same brush is a blinkered view.
Yawn. Same thread, different week. When will it cease? There are bad cyclists as well as bad motorists - the bottom line is it is the INDIVIDUALS who are at fault so tarring everyone with the same brush is a blinkered view. Peggy Babcock
  • Score: 0

5:58pm Sun 11 Dec 11

oriteroom says...

Reference Echo report
UPDATED: Cyclist suffers serious injuries in Castle Lane crash (yesterday)

Doubt we will see an emotive picture of the 47 year old with leg in plaster in the arms of his mother or INDEED the council debating passing a motion on his behalf!
Reference Echo report UPDATED: Cyclist suffers serious injuries in Castle Lane crash (yesterday) Doubt we will see an emotive picture of the 47 year old with leg in plaster in the arms of his mother or INDEED the council debating passing a motion on his behalf! oriteroom
  • Score: 0

6:08pm Sun 11 Dec 11

cyclejim says...

Well said Peggy
.
And also Mandin too - most cycle lanes are impossible to cycle in while wearing cleats and the presence of bollards, barriers, uncleared tree and other debris, steel covers and raised ridges for the blind and partially sighted make even staying upright on a road bike difficult especially in the winter. There are a few decent cycle lanes and I'll happily use them, but if not I'll always go, quite legally, on the road where the presence of traffic holds me and other cars up more than I do on a bike. If anybody wants to challenge that they are more than welcome to join me on a tour of local excuses for cycle lanes to see exactly why they aren't used as much as they could be - it's nothing to do with arrogance in the majority of cases.
Well said Peggy . And also Mandin too - most cycle lanes are impossible to cycle in while wearing cleats and the presence of bollards, barriers, uncleared tree and other debris, steel covers and raised ridges for the blind and partially sighted make even staying upright on a road bike difficult especially in the winter. There are a few decent cycle lanes and I'll happily use them, but if not I'll always go, quite legally, on the road where the presence of traffic holds me and other cars up more than I do on a bike. If anybody wants to challenge that they are more than welcome to join me on a tour of local excuses for cycle lanes to see exactly why they aren't used as much as they could be - it's nothing to do with arrogance in the majority of cases. cyclejim
  • Score: 0

6:09pm Sun 11 Dec 11

Tig says...

"Dorset Police said yesterday that 17 motorists had been killed up on Dorset’s roads up until November 4."
.
This sentence is completely meaningless.
"Dorset Police said yesterday that 17 motorists had been killed up on Dorset’s roads up until November 4." . This sentence is completely meaningless. Tig
  • Score: 0

7:17pm Sun 11 Dec 11

BourneRed says...

Just a little comment on the cycle lanes, perhaps if Buses, lorries and cars didn't dip in and out of cycle lanes, cyclists might feel safer when using them.

However just because some irresponsible drivers do this, it doesn't mean that I then lump every driver into the same group and believe they are all arrogant, unsafe drivers.

The same has to go for cyclists, so whatever this motion means, I hope there remains some common sense. Cycling on the pavements isn't always dangerous, you can use the paths courteously, giving pedestrians right of way, not going to fast and always being aware of children etc.
Just a little comment on the cycle lanes, perhaps if Buses, lorries and cars didn't dip in and out of cycle lanes, cyclists might feel safer when using them. However just because some irresponsible drivers do this, it doesn't mean that I then lump every driver into the same group and believe they are all arrogant, unsafe drivers. The same has to go for cyclists, so whatever this motion means, I hope there remains some common sense. Cycling on the pavements isn't always dangerous, you can use the paths courteously, giving pedestrians right of way, not going to fast and always being aware of children etc. BourneRed
  • Score: 0

7:18pm Sun 11 Dec 11

BourneRed says...

Just a little comment on the cycle lanes, perhaps if Buses, lorries and cars didn't dip in and out of cycle lanes, cyclists might feel safer when using them.

However just because some irresponsible drivers do this, it doesn't mean that I then lump every driver into the same group and believe they are all arrogant, unsafe drivers.

The same has to go for cyclists, so whatever this motion means, I hope there remains some common sense. Cycling on the pavements isn't always dangerous, you can use the paths courteously, giving pedestrians right of way, not going to fast and always being aware of children etc.
Just a little comment on the cycle lanes, perhaps if Buses, lorries and cars didn't dip in and out of cycle lanes, cyclists might feel safer when using them. However just because some irresponsible drivers do this, it doesn't mean that I then lump every driver into the same group and believe they are all arrogant, unsafe drivers. The same has to go for cyclists, so whatever this motion means, I hope there remains some common sense. Cycling on the pavements isn't always dangerous, you can use the paths courteously, giving pedestrians right of way, not going to fast and always being aware of children etc. BourneRed
  • Score: 0

8:23pm Sun 11 Dec 11

billm says...

MandinVerwood wrote:
Get bylawes passed so that all bikes and completly banned from Bournemouth and the local areas - be it on the road, seafront, off-road or even children's bikes.
.
We don't want them - okay it will put people out of jobs, create more issues with travelling and congestion and make people unfitter - but at least I don't have to look at them - as it offends me!
.
What we need is to take Bournemouth back and make it like it was in the 50's - Great for old people. We don't want other people here - this should be for people to retire to - maybe a few younger people to look after us - but that's all!
There weren't so many cars in the 50's. A lot more people had bikes!
[quote][p][bold]MandinVerwood[/bold] wrote: Get bylawes passed so that all bikes and completly banned from Bournemouth and the local areas - be it on the road, seafront, off-road or even children's bikes. . We don't want them - okay it will put people out of jobs, create more issues with travelling and congestion and make people unfitter - but at least I don't have to look at them - as it offends me! . What we need is to take Bournemouth back and make it like it was in the 50's - Great for old people. We don't want other people here - this should be for people to retire to - maybe a few younger people to look after us - but that's all![/p][/quote]There weren't so many cars in the 50's. A lot more people had bikes! billm
  • Score: 0

8:31pm Sun 11 Dec 11

Rich_Enduro says...

anything going to be done about the cars driving in the cycle lanes along barrack Rd during rush hour? no? thought not
anything going to be done about the cars driving in the cycle lanes along barrack Rd during rush hour? no? thought not Rich_Enduro
  • Score: 0

9:34pm Sun 11 Dec 11

radical says...

oriteroom wrote:
Reference Echo report
UPDATED: Cyclist suffers serious injuries in Castle Lane crash (yesterday)

Doubt we will see an emotive picture of the 47 year old with leg in plaster in the arms of his mother or INDEED the council debating passing a motion on his behalf!
Why not wait until the official cause is announced and who was at fault.
[quote][p][bold]oriteroom[/bold] wrote: Reference Echo report UPDATED: Cyclist suffers serious injuries in Castle Lane crash (yesterday) Doubt we will see an emotive picture of the 47 year old with leg in plaster in the arms of his mother or INDEED the council debating passing a motion on his behalf![/p][/quote]Why not wait until the official cause is announced and who was at fault. radical
  • Score: 0

11:10pm Sun 11 Dec 11

downfader says...

radical wrote:
oriteroom wrote:
Reference Echo report
UPDATED: Cyclist suffers serious injuries in Castle Lane crash (yesterday)

Doubt we will see an emotive picture of the 47 year old with leg in plaster in the arms of his mother or INDEED the council debating passing a motion on his behalf!
Why not wait until the official cause is announced and who was at fault.
But it does raise a valid point. People have become reactionary towards a situation whilst almost willfully ignoring a more important one. They even use a tragedy as a platform for all kinds of irrelevant grievance, grievance that has barely even affected them.
[quote][p][bold]radical[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]oriteroom[/bold] wrote: Reference Echo report UPDATED: Cyclist suffers serious injuries in Castle Lane crash (yesterday) Doubt we will see an emotive picture of the 47 year old with leg in plaster in the arms of his mother or INDEED the council debating passing a motion on his behalf![/p][/quote]Why not wait until the official cause is announced and who was at fault.[/p][/quote]But it does raise a valid point. People have become reactionary towards a situation whilst almost willfully ignoring a more important one. They even use a tragedy as a platform for all kinds of irrelevant grievance, grievance that has barely even affected them. downfader
  • Score: 0

7:13am Mon 12 Dec 11

Howdie says...

MandinVerwood wrote:
Get bylawes passed so that all bikes and completly banned from Bournemouth and the local areas - be it on the road, seafront, off-road or even children's bikes.
.
We don't want them - okay it will put people out of jobs, create more issues with travelling and congestion and make people unfitter - but at least I don't have to look at them - as it offends me!
.
What we need is to take Bournemouth back and make it like it was in the 50's - Great for old people. We don't want other people here - this should be for people to retire to - maybe a few younger people to look after us - but that's all!
back to the 50s? Then throw away your computer along with your car, automatic washing machine and any other mod cons you have....this world has moved on...so should you
[quote][p][bold]MandinVerwood[/bold] wrote: Get bylawes passed so that all bikes and completly banned from Bournemouth and the local areas - be it on the road, seafront, off-road or even children's bikes. . We don't want them - okay it will put people out of jobs, create more issues with travelling and congestion and make people unfitter - but at least I don't have to look at them - as it offends me! . What we need is to take Bournemouth back and make it like it was in the 50's - Great for old people. We don't want other people here - this should be for people to retire to - maybe a few younger people to look after us - but that's all![/p][/quote]back to the 50s? Then throw away your computer along with your car, automatic washing machine and any other mod cons you have....this world has moved on...so should you Howdie
  • Score: 0

7:13am Mon 12 Dec 11

Howdie says...

MandinVerwood wrote:
Get bylawes passed so that all bikes and completly banned from Bournemouth and the local areas - be it on the road, seafront, off-road or even children's bikes.
.
We don't want them - okay it will put people out of jobs, create more issues with travelling and congestion and make people unfitter - but at least I don't have to look at them - as it offends me!
.
What we need is to take Bournemouth back and make it like it was in the 50's - Great for old people. We don't want other people here - this should be for people to retire to - maybe a few younger people to look after us - but that's all!
back to the 50s? Then throw away your computer along with your car, automatic washing machine and any other mod cons you have....this world has moved on...so should you
[quote][p][bold]MandinVerwood[/bold] wrote: Get bylawes passed so that all bikes and completly banned from Bournemouth and the local areas - be it on the road, seafront, off-road or even children's bikes. . We don't want them - okay it will put people out of jobs, create more issues with travelling and congestion and make people unfitter - but at least I don't have to look at them - as it offends me! . What we need is to take Bournemouth back and make it like it was in the 50's - Great for old people. We don't want other people here - this should be for people to retire to - maybe a few younger people to look after us - but that's all![/p][/quote]back to the 50s? Then throw away your computer along with your car, automatic washing machine and any other mod cons you have....this world has moved on...so should you Howdie
  • Score: 0

8:46am Mon 12 Dec 11

radical says...

downfader wrote:
radical wrote:
oriteroom wrote:
Reference Echo report
UPDATED: Cyclist suffers serious injuries in Castle Lane crash (yesterday)

Doubt we will see an emotive picture of the 47 year old with leg in plaster in the arms of his mother or INDEED the council debating passing a motion on his behalf!
Why not wait until the official cause is announced and who was at fault.
But it does raise a valid point. People have become reactionary towards a situation whilst almost willfully ignoring a more important one. They even use a tragedy as a platform for all kinds of irrelevant grievance, grievance that has barely even affected them.
I think this is because the pavement has always been a safety zone for pedestrians of all ages.
I would think that there would be an outrage if a car driver decided to drive along the pavement and seriously injure a child.
The roads are dangerous so we seem to accept that accidents will happen, and when they do it doesn't have as much impact as someone who is knocked down in a so called safe area.
I have no answer to the way things are at present, but to have pedestrians of all ages on the same path as cycles which can travel the same speed as a car is sheer lunacy and more of these accidents will occur until something is done about it.
[quote][p][bold]downfader[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]radical[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]oriteroom[/bold] wrote: Reference Echo report UPDATED: Cyclist suffers serious injuries in Castle Lane crash (yesterday) Doubt we will see an emotive picture of the 47 year old with leg in plaster in the arms of his mother or INDEED the council debating passing a motion on his behalf![/p][/quote]Why not wait until the official cause is announced and who was at fault.[/p][/quote]But it does raise a valid point. People have become reactionary towards a situation whilst almost willfully ignoring a more important one. They even use a tragedy as a platform for all kinds of irrelevant grievance, grievance that has barely even affected them.[/p][/quote]I think this is because the pavement has always been a safety zone for pedestrians of all ages. I would think that there would be an outrage if a car driver decided to drive along the pavement and seriously injure a child. The roads are dangerous so we seem to accept that accidents will happen, and when they do it doesn't have as much impact as someone who is knocked down in a so called safe area. I have no answer to the way things are at present, but to have pedestrians of all ages on the same path as cycles which can travel the same speed as a car is sheer lunacy and more of these accidents will occur until something is done about it. radical
  • Score: 0

11:36am Mon 12 Dec 11

beachcomber1 says...

how to mix up apples and oranges!

when cycling on the road you know you have to be on the lookout for cars.

when walking on the pavement you are not educated nor attuned to having to keep a lookout for illegal cyclists.
how to mix up apples and oranges! when cycling on the road you know you have to be on the lookout for cars. when walking on the pavement you are not educated nor attuned to having to keep a lookout for illegal cyclists. beachcomber1
  • Score: 0

12:21pm Mon 12 Dec 11

Azphreal says...

I see no difference between a bike or a car going up onto the kerb,they are both against the law. I have had enough of the car vs bike debate its pathetic! You have morons in cars and on bikes. Twice in the last week my disabled 4 year old (in her chair)was almost hit by idiots speeding down the path on bikes expecting everyone to get out of their way.
I see no difference between a bike or a car going up onto the kerb,they are both against the law. I have had enough of the car vs bike debate its pathetic! You have morons in cars and on bikes. Twice in the last week my disabled 4 year old (in her chair)was almost hit by idiots speeding down the path on bikes expecting everyone to get out of their way. Azphreal
  • Score: 0

12:27pm Mon 12 Dec 11

Gooby says...

Cycling infrastructure in the area is a bad joke at the best of times. None of it is dedicated for cyclists.

Cycle routes that weave up and down off pavements and into the road. On the road, even on a cycle route, a cyclist is clipped by cars passing too close. Frequently there is somebody parked in the cycle lane and rarely do they check for cyclists when throwing a door open.

The shared routes for cyclists and pedestrians exist primarily for the pensioners to **** at the cycles on the pavement.

What options are left to a cyclist? You can either cycle on the road. The legal option and dodge cars some of which try to hit you and many of which shout abuse or cycle on a pavement. The probelm is that when a car hits a cyclist the car driver will suffer no injury. It will be very uncommon for the cyclist to be uninjured.

How about some dedicated infrastructure for cyclists? Cyclists dont want to cycle on the path but they want to be smashed off thier bike by a car even less.
Cycling infrastructure in the area is a bad joke at the best of times. None of it is dedicated for cyclists. Cycle routes that weave up and down off pavements and into the road. On the road, even on a cycle route, a cyclist is clipped by cars passing too close. Frequently there is somebody parked in the cycle lane and rarely do they check for cyclists when throwing a door open. The shared routes for cyclists and pedestrians exist primarily for the pensioners to **** at the cycles on the pavement. What options are left to a cyclist? You can either cycle on the road. The legal option and dodge cars some of which try to hit you and many of which shout abuse or cycle on a pavement. The probelm is that when a car hits a cyclist the car driver will suffer no injury. It will be very uncommon for the cyclist to be uninjured. How about some dedicated infrastructure for cyclists? Cyclists dont want to cycle on the path but they want to be smashed off thier bike by a car even less. Gooby
  • Score: 0

12:34pm Mon 12 Dec 11

Jambonick says...

Believe it or not, illegal pavement cycling was discussed in the House of Lords last week.

During the debate, Lord Alan Sugar wasn't too sweet about cyclists, legal or otherwise! He wants the Law changing whereby cyclists have to carry some form of identity and if they can't prove their identity, their bikes should be taken off them and kept by the police until identity is proven!

One 'noble' Lord told the House that he and his Wife recently challenged a pavement cyclist who had 'nearly' ran into them.

The Lord (and his Lady) quickly challenged the errant cyclist, asking why he was cycling on the pavement and not the road.

The cyclist replied.. "I can't cycle on the road cos I ain't got any lights!" :-)
Believe it or not, illegal pavement cycling was discussed in the House of Lords last week. During the debate, Lord Alan Sugar wasn't too sweet about cyclists, legal or otherwise! He wants the Law changing whereby cyclists have to carry some form of identity and if they can't prove their identity, their bikes should be taken off them and kept by the police until identity is proven! One 'noble' Lord told the House that he and his Wife recently challenged a pavement cyclist who had 'nearly' ran into them. The Lord (and his Lady) quickly challenged the errant cyclist, asking why he was cycling on the pavement and not the road. The cyclist replied.. "I can't cycle on the road cos I ain't got any lights!" :-) Jambonick
  • Score: 0

12:39pm Mon 12 Dec 11

radical says...

Gooby wrote:
Cycling infrastructure in the area is a bad joke at the best of times. None of it is dedicated for cyclists.

Cycle routes that weave up and down off pavements and into the road. On the road, even on a cycle route, a cyclist is clipped by cars passing too close. Frequently there is somebody parked in the cycle lane and rarely do they check for cyclists when throwing a door open.

The shared routes for cyclists and pedestrians exist primarily for the pensioners to **** at the cycles on the pavement.

What options are left to a cyclist? You can either cycle on the road. The legal option and dodge cars some of which try to hit you and many of which shout abuse or cycle on a pavement. The probelm is that when a car hits a cyclist the car driver will suffer no injury. It will be very uncommon for the cyclist to be uninjured.

How about some dedicated infrastructure for cyclists? Cyclists dont want to cycle on the path but they want to be smashed off thier bike by a car even less.
This is where all the animosity starts, cycles have been on roads for years, all that has changed is the vast increase in cars compared to years ago.
I have been driving for 40 years and, as I was taught when I took my driving test, always give cyclists plenty of room, there are those that don't and this needs addressing some how.
There are bad drivers and good drivers just as there are cyclists that know what their doing and those that don't, there are cyclists that flout the law all the time such as ignoring red lights and speeding down pavements, these are the people that cause the trouble.
Not all drivers or cyclists are bad, it's a select few that cause the trouble.
[quote][p][bold]Gooby[/bold] wrote: Cycling infrastructure in the area is a bad joke at the best of times. None of it is dedicated for cyclists. Cycle routes that weave up and down off pavements and into the road. On the road, even on a cycle route, a cyclist is clipped by cars passing too close. Frequently there is somebody parked in the cycle lane and rarely do they check for cyclists when throwing a door open. The shared routes for cyclists and pedestrians exist primarily for the pensioners to **** at the cycles on the pavement. What options are left to a cyclist? You can either cycle on the road. The legal option and dodge cars some of which try to hit you and many of which shout abuse or cycle on a pavement. The probelm is that when a car hits a cyclist the car driver will suffer no injury. It will be very uncommon for the cyclist to be uninjured. How about some dedicated infrastructure for cyclists? Cyclists dont want to cycle on the path but they want to be smashed off thier bike by a car even less.[/p][/quote]This is where all the animosity starts, cycles have been on roads for years, all that has changed is the vast increase in cars compared to years ago. I have been driving for 40 years and, as I was taught when I took my driving test, always give cyclists plenty of room, there are those that don't and this needs addressing some how. There are bad drivers and good drivers just as there are cyclists that know what their doing and those that don't, there are cyclists that flout the law all the time such as ignoring red lights and speeding down pavements, these are the people that cause the trouble. Not all drivers or cyclists are bad, it's a select few that cause the trouble. radical
  • Score: 0

12:44pm Mon 12 Dec 11

FNS-man says...

I think that the first comment on here is ironic. Well maybe it's not given some people's attitude.

I think the debate should really be why it is not safe to cycle. In Holland the average age of kids to start cycling to school (on their own usually) is eight. Imagine letting your eight-year-old cycle to school in Bournemouth.

In a lot of places in Holland, almost 100% of the kids cycle to school. Here we have the dreaded school run where the little ones get ferried in, causing much more congestion for everyone.

If there were decent, safe cycle paths that were joined up and actually went useful places then maybe we could get the majority of cyclists off the road and the pavement. Surely nearly everyone can agree with that?
I think that the first comment on here is ironic. Well maybe it's not given some people's attitude. I think the debate should really be why it is not safe to cycle. In Holland the average age of kids to start cycling to school (on their own usually) is eight. Imagine letting your eight-year-old cycle to school in Bournemouth. In a lot of places in Holland, almost 100% of the kids cycle to school. Here we have the dreaded school run where the little ones get ferried in, causing much more congestion for everyone. If there were decent, safe cycle paths that were joined up and actually went useful places then maybe we could get the majority of cyclists off the road and the pavement. Surely nearly everyone can agree with that? FNS-man
  • Score: 0

1:02pm Mon 12 Dec 11

radical says...

FNS-man wrote:
I think that the first comment on here is ironic. Well maybe it's not given some people's attitude.

I think the debate should really be why it is not safe to cycle. In Holland the average age of kids to start cycling to school (on their own usually) is eight. Imagine letting your eight-year-old cycle to school in Bournemouth.

In a lot of places in Holland, almost 100% of the kids cycle to school. Here we have the dreaded school run where the little ones get ferried in, causing much more congestion for everyone.

If there were decent, safe cycle paths that were joined up and actually went useful places then maybe we could get the majority of cyclists off the road and the pavement. Surely nearly everyone can agree with that?
I agree with that but unfortunately the way our roads have been left for far to long it will never happen.
[quote][p][bold]FNS-man[/bold] wrote: I think that the first comment on here is ironic. Well maybe it's not given some people's attitude. I think the debate should really be why it is not safe to cycle. In Holland the average age of kids to start cycling to school (on their own usually) is eight. Imagine letting your eight-year-old cycle to school in Bournemouth. In a lot of places in Holland, almost 100% of the kids cycle to school. Here we have the dreaded school run where the little ones get ferried in, causing much more congestion for everyone. If there were decent, safe cycle paths that were joined up and actually went useful places then maybe we could get the majority of cyclists off the road and the pavement. Surely nearly everyone can agree with that?[/p][/quote]I agree with that but unfortunately the way our roads have been left for far to long it will never happen. radical
  • Score: 0

1:18pm Mon 12 Dec 11

Gooby says...

radical wrote:
Gooby wrote:
Cycling infrastructure in the area is a bad joke at the best of times. None of it is dedicated for cyclists.

Cycle routes that weave up and down off pavements and into the road. On the road, even on a cycle route, a cyclist is clipped by cars passing too close. Frequently there is somebody parked in the cycle lane and rarely do they check for cyclists when throwing a door open.

The shared routes for cyclists and pedestrians exist primarily for the pensioners to **** at the cycles on the pavement.

What options are left to a cyclist? You can either cycle on the road. The legal option and dodge cars some of which try to hit you and many of which shout abuse or cycle on a pavement. The probelm is that when a car hits a cyclist the car driver will suffer no injury. It will be very uncommon for the cyclist to be uninjured.

How about some dedicated infrastructure for cyclists? Cyclists dont want to cycle on the path but they want to be smashed off thier bike by a car even less.
This is where all the animosity starts, cycles have been on roads for years, all that has changed is the vast increase in cars compared to years ago.
I have been driving for 40 years and, as I was taught when I took my driving test, always give cyclists plenty of room, there are those that don't and this needs addressing some how.
There are bad drivers and good drivers just as there are cyclists that know what their doing and those that don't, there are cyclists that flout the law all the time such as ignoring red lights and speeding down pavements, these are the people that cause the trouble.
Not all drivers or cyclists are bad, it's a select few that cause the trouble.
I will agree the problem is it only takes one driver in a vindictive mood or texting to badly hurt a cyclist.

The fear of this will keep some cyclists avoiding cycling in the traffic.
[quote][p][bold]radical[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Gooby[/bold] wrote: Cycling infrastructure in the area is a bad joke at the best of times. None of it is dedicated for cyclists. Cycle routes that weave up and down off pavements and into the road. On the road, even on a cycle route, a cyclist is clipped by cars passing too close. Frequently there is somebody parked in the cycle lane and rarely do they check for cyclists when throwing a door open. The shared routes for cyclists and pedestrians exist primarily for the pensioners to **** at the cycles on the pavement. What options are left to a cyclist? You can either cycle on the road. The legal option and dodge cars some of which try to hit you and many of which shout abuse or cycle on a pavement. The probelm is that when a car hits a cyclist the car driver will suffer no injury. It will be very uncommon for the cyclist to be uninjured. How about some dedicated infrastructure for cyclists? Cyclists dont want to cycle on the path but they want to be smashed off thier bike by a car even less.[/p][/quote]This is where all the animosity starts, cycles have been on roads for years, all that has changed is the vast increase in cars compared to years ago. I have been driving for 40 years and, as I was taught when I took my driving test, always give cyclists plenty of room, there are those that don't and this needs addressing some how. There are bad drivers and good drivers just as there are cyclists that know what their doing and those that don't, there are cyclists that flout the law all the time such as ignoring red lights and speeding down pavements, these are the people that cause the trouble. Not all drivers or cyclists are bad, it's a select few that cause the trouble.[/p][/quote]I will agree the problem is it only takes one driver in a vindictive mood or texting to badly hurt a cyclist. The fear of this will keep some cyclists avoiding cycling in the traffic. Gooby
  • Score: 0

2:30pm Mon 12 Dec 11

FNS-man says...

radical wrote:
FNS-man wrote: I think that the first comment on here is ironic. Well maybe it's not given some people's attitude. I think the debate should really be why it is not safe to cycle. In Holland the average age of kids to start cycling to school (on their own usually) is eight. Imagine letting your eight-year-old cycle to school in Bournemouth. In a lot of places in Holland, almost 100% of the kids cycle to school. Here we have the dreaded school run where the little ones get ferried in, causing much more congestion for everyone. If there were decent, safe cycle paths that were joined up and actually went useful places then maybe we could get the majority of cyclists off the road and the pavement. Surely nearly everyone can agree with that?
I agree with that but unfortunately the way our roads have been left for far to long it will never happen.
Not in the slightest. The spending on cycle infrastructure is currently practically nothing compared to the overall budget for transport. With a small shift we could have a few main routes sorted very quickly.

Currently it's frankly terrifying cycling on the roads in many places. Why is this accepted?
[quote][p][bold]radical[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]FNS-man[/bold] wrote: I think that the first comment on here is ironic. Well maybe it's not given some people's attitude. I think the debate should really be why it is not safe to cycle. In Holland the average age of kids to start cycling to school (on their own usually) is eight. Imagine letting your eight-year-old cycle to school in Bournemouth. In a lot of places in Holland, almost 100% of the kids cycle to school. Here we have the dreaded school run where the little ones get ferried in, causing much more congestion for everyone. If there were decent, safe cycle paths that were joined up and actually went useful places then maybe we could get the majority of cyclists off the road and the pavement. Surely nearly everyone can agree with that?[/p][/quote]I agree with that but unfortunately the way our roads have been left for far to long it will never happen.[/p][/quote]Not in the slightest. The spending on cycle infrastructure is currently practically nothing compared to the overall budget for transport. With a small shift we could have a few main routes sorted very quickly. Currently it's frankly terrifying cycling on the roads in many places. Why is this accepted? FNS-man
  • Score: 0

3:15pm Mon 12 Dec 11

peter_c says...

The reason its accepted is because this country is so reliant on the motor vehicle that it needs to spend ££££s on the road network to keep up, and the fact that is the roads are no longer suitable for both cars and bikes. The main issue is that the roads are too narrow to accommodate a painted line (that, lets be honest) is ignored half the time by drivers. I've lost count of the many times I've almost been hit by someone who wanted to rush through a pinch point ahead of me (regardless of road position). I don't agree with pavement cycling but I do understand why some less experienced riders do it. Me? Road all the time (with the exception of dual carriageways over 40 mph).
.
On a side note, where's hammer today? I mean, a cycle story she hasn't commented on? I hope she's not come down with something!
The reason its accepted is because this country is so reliant on the motor vehicle that it needs to spend ££££s on the road network to keep up, and the fact that is the roads are no longer suitable for both cars and bikes. The main issue is that the roads are too narrow to accommodate a painted line (that, lets be honest) is ignored half the time by drivers. I've lost count of the many times I've almost been hit by someone who wanted to rush through a pinch point ahead of me (regardless of road position). I don't agree with pavement cycling but I do understand why some less experienced riders do it. Me? Road all the time (with the exception of dual carriageways over 40 mph). . On a side note, where's hammer today? I mean, a cycle story she hasn't commented on? I hope she's not come down with something! peter_c
  • Score: 0

3:28pm Mon 12 Dec 11

Jambonick says...

FNS-man wrote

> Currently it's frankly
> terrifying cycling on the
> roads in many places.
> Why is this accepted?

A good point!

That question could also be addressed to our elected representatives!

Problem is, 99% of local Councillors and Westminster MPs aren't regular cyclists (well apart from London Mayor Boris Johnson) so they really aren't aware of the dangers we cyclists face on a daily basis.

And even if they did care, where's the money coming from to install a decent, reasonably safe cycling infrastructure in towns and cities throughout the UK?

Eh? Wassat? Cycling? Bah! Humbug!
FNS-man wrote > Currently it's frankly > terrifying cycling on the > roads in many places. > Why is this accepted? A good point! That question could also be addressed to our elected representatives! Problem is, 99% of local Councillors and Westminster MPs aren't regular cyclists (well apart from London Mayor Boris Johnson) so they really aren't aware of the dangers we cyclists face on a daily basis. And even if they did care, where's the money coming from to install a decent, reasonably safe cycling infrastructure in towns and cities throughout the UK? Eh? Wassat? Cycling? Bah! Humbug! Jambonick
  • Score: 0

3:43pm Mon 12 Dec 11

Jambonick says...

peter_c inquired..

> On a side note, where's
> hammer today? I mean,
> a cycle story she hasn't
> commented on?

With no bike, 'Hammer' is probably clawing her way thru some massive Xmas-shopping traffic jam.

But don't fret: just like Arnold Swartisname..

She'll be back!
peter_c inquired.. > On a side note, where's > hammer today? I mean, > a cycle story she hasn't > commented on? With no bike, 'Hammer' is probably clawing her way thru some massive Xmas-shopping traffic jam. But don't fret: just like Arnold Swartisname.. She'll be back! Jambonick
  • Score: 0

3:59pm Mon 12 Dec 11

downfader says...

Jambonick wrote:
peter_c inquired..

> On a side note, where's
> hammer today? I mean,
> a cycle story she hasn't
> commented on?

With no bike, 'Hammer' is probably clawing her way thru some massive Xmas-shopping traffic jam.

But don't fret: just like Arnold Swartisname..

She'll be back!
Or she's bought a bike and is now in shock! Found something she likes...
:-D
[quote][p][bold]Jambonick[/bold] wrote: peter_c inquired.. > On a side note, where's > hammer today? I mean, > a cycle story she hasn't > commented on? With no bike, 'Hammer' is probably clawing her way thru some massive Xmas-shopping traffic jam. But don't fret: just like Arnold Swartisname.. She'll be back![/p][/quote]Or she's bought a bike and is now in shock! Found something she likes... :-D downfader
  • Score: 0

4:18pm Mon 12 Dec 11

downfader says...

radical wrote:
downfader wrote:
radical wrote:
oriteroom wrote:
Reference Echo report
UPDATED: Cyclist suffers serious injuries in Castle Lane crash (yesterday)

Doubt we will see an emotive picture of the 47 year old with leg in plaster in the arms of his mother or INDEED the council debating passing a motion on his behalf!
Why not wait until the official cause is announced and who was at fault.
But it does raise a valid point. People have become reactionary towards a situation whilst almost willfully ignoring a more important one. They even use a tragedy as a platform for all kinds of irrelevant grievance, grievance that has barely even affected them.
I think this is because the pavement has always been a safety zone for pedestrians of all ages.
I would think that there would be an outrage if a car driver decided to drive along the pavement and seriously injure a child.
The roads are dangerous so we seem to accept that accidents will happen, and when they do it doesn't have as much impact as someone who is knocked down in a so called safe area.
I have no answer to the way things are at present, but to have pedestrians of all ages on the same path as cycles which can travel the same speed as a car is sheer lunacy and more of these accidents will occur until something is done about it.
A good post.

There are around 300 serious injuries and 40 deaths to pedestrians on the pavement via the motor, unfortunately.

I don't particularly agree with many of the efforts in the South for shared-use access for the reasons I outlined earlier.

I do actually agree with the Police tackling the errant riders, but as the Cllr said it's ignoring other issues.

I think much can be done at schools to show kids safe riding and is being done with Bikeability. Colleges and Unis need to take a similar approach imo.

In London cyclists who have ridden illegally were give a Police talk, some basic training and advice on lights/road position. The London Cycle Campaign recently worked with cycle shops and the Police and handed out free lights to unlit cyclists in November.

I think theres always a way to try and make a difference.
[quote][p][bold]radical[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]downfader[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]radical[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]oriteroom[/bold] wrote: Reference Echo report UPDATED: Cyclist suffers serious injuries in Castle Lane crash (yesterday) Doubt we will see an emotive picture of the 47 year old with leg in plaster in the arms of his mother or INDEED the council debating passing a motion on his behalf![/p][/quote]Why not wait until the official cause is announced and who was at fault.[/p][/quote]But it does raise a valid point. People have become reactionary towards a situation whilst almost willfully ignoring a more important one. They even use a tragedy as a platform for all kinds of irrelevant grievance, grievance that has barely even affected them.[/p][/quote]I think this is because the pavement has always been a safety zone for pedestrians of all ages. I would think that there would be an outrage if a car driver decided to drive along the pavement and seriously injure a child. The roads are dangerous so we seem to accept that accidents will happen, and when they do it doesn't have as much impact as someone who is knocked down in a so called safe area. I have no answer to the way things are at present, but to have pedestrians of all ages on the same path as cycles which can travel the same speed as a car is sheer lunacy and more of these accidents will occur until something is done about it.[/p][/quote]A good post. There are around 300 serious injuries and 40 deaths to pedestrians on the pavement via the motor, unfortunately. I don't particularly agree with many of the efforts in the South for shared-use access for the reasons I outlined earlier. I do actually agree with the Police tackling the errant riders, but as the Cllr said it's ignoring other issues. I think much can be done at schools to show kids safe riding and is being done with Bikeability. Colleges and Unis need to take a similar approach imo. In London cyclists who have ridden illegally were give a Police talk, some basic training and advice on lights/road position. The London Cycle Campaign recently worked with cycle shops and the Police and handed out free lights to unlit cyclists in November. I think theres always a way to try and make a difference. downfader
  • Score: 0

9:58pm Mon 12 Dec 11

radical says...

downfader wrote:
Jambonick wrote:
peter_c inquired..

> On a side note, where's
> hammer today? I mean,
> a cycle story she hasn't
> commented on?

With no bike, 'Hammer' is probably clawing her way thru some massive Xmas-shopping traffic jam.

But don't fret: just like Arnold Swartisname..

She'll be back!
Or she's bought a bike and is now in shock! Found something she likes...
:-D
Don't know if it's bournehammer your talking about, if it isn't I apologise, but bournehammer posted some extremely disgusting language on here this morning and I hope that he or she has been removed form commenting for a while, the language was very disgusting and offensive.
[quote][p][bold]downfader[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Jambonick[/bold] wrote: peter_c inquired.. > On a side note, where's > hammer today? I mean, > a cycle story she hasn't > commented on? With no bike, 'Hammer' is probably clawing her way thru some massive Xmas-shopping traffic jam. But don't fret: just like Arnold Swartisname.. She'll be back![/p][/quote]Or she's bought a bike and is now in shock! Found something she likes... :-D[/p][/quote]Don't know if it's bournehammer your talking about, if it isn't I apologise, but bournehammer posted some extremely disgusting language on here this morning and I hope that he or she has been removed form commenting for a while, the language was very disgusting and offensive. radical
  • Score: 0

11:34pm Mon 12 Dec 11

Jambonick says...

radical wrote:
downfader wrote:
Jambonick wrote:
peter_c inquired..

> On a side note, where's
> hammer today? I mean,
> a cycle story she hasn't
> commented on?

With no bike, 'Hammer' is probably clawing her way thru some massive Xmas-shopping traffic jam.

But don't fret: just like Arnold Swartisname..

She'll be back!
Or she's bought a bike and is now in shock! Found something she likes...
:-D
Don't know if it's bournehammer your talking about, if it isn't I apologise, but bournehammer posted some extremely disgusting language on here this morning and I hope that he or she has been removed form commenting for a while, the language was very disgusting and offensive.
'peter_c' was earlier referring to subscriber 'Hammer' who was conspicuous by her absence from this particular cycling debate!

I was also referring to 'hammer' when replying to 'peter_c's post.

I'm fairly new to these columns and haven't yet seen any posts from 'Bournehammer'.

Yep, I agree; offensive posts should be immediately removed. No need for distasteful language.

Any post containing offensive or objectionable language, does nothing except highlight the ignorance of the sender.
[quote][p][bold]radical[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]downfader[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Jambonick[/bold] wrote: peter_c inquired.. > On a side note, where's > hammer today? I mean, > a cycle story she hasn't > commented on? With no bike, 'Hammer' is probably clawing her way thru some massive Xmas-shopping traffic jam. But don't fret: just like Arnold Swartisname.. She'll be back![/p][/quote]Or she's bought a bike and is now in shock! Found something she likes... :-D[/p][/quote]Don't know if it's bournehammer your talking about, if it isn't I apologise, but bournehammer posted some extremely disgusting language on here this morning and I hope that he or she has been removed form commenting for a while, the language was very disgusting and offensive.[/p][/quote]'peter_c' was earlier referring to subscriber 'Hammer' who was conspicuous by her absence from this particular cycling debate! I was also referring to 'hammer' when replying to 'peter_c's post. I'm fairly new to these columns and haven't yet seen any posts from 'Bournehammer'. Yep, I agree; offensive posts should be immediately removed. No need for distasteful language. Any post containing offensive or objectionable language, does nothing except highlight the ignorance of the sender. Jambonick
  • Score: 0

11:59pm Mon 12 Dec 11

s-pb2 says...

Just seems like a typical Echo story to antagonise the locals in its anti-cyclist agenda. Nothing needs changing, except maybe better cycle paths and networks. we do not need regulation of cyclists. Its unworkable, expensive, penalises the young and poor, and virtually impossible to police satisfactorily. Cyclists who ride on the pavement, should be dealt with as they are now, at the discretion of the police officer. The officers decision has to be in the publics interest and in the interest of safety. There are bad cyclists and good cyclists, as well as bad drivers and good drivers. In fact you can extend that to pedestrians too. I regularly see some pretty stupid forms of jaywalking!
Just seems like a typical Echo story to antagonise the locals in its anti-cyclist agenda. Nothing needs changing, except maybe better cycle paths and networks. we do not need regulation of cyclists. Its unworkable, expensive, penalises the young and poor, and virtually impossible to police satisfactorily. Cyclists who ride on the pavement, should be dealt with as they are now, at the discretion of the police officer. The officers decision has to be in the publics interest and in the interest of safety. There are bad cyclists and good cyclists, as well as bad drivers and good drivers. In fact you can extend that to pedestrians too. I regularly see some pretty stupid forms of jaywalking! s-pb2
  • Score: 0

5:21am Tue 13 Dec 11

ashleycross says...

There is no map of cycle lanes in Bournemouth Poole or Christchurch. Lanes should be mapped clearly showing width. The ridiculous lip service paid by the various councils to cycle routes is laughable. Silly narrow little lanes and suggested back street "routes" that don't even have lanes are ridiculous. Our hospitals are clogged up with asthma attacks brought on by car fumes. Everyone suffers from the anti cycling attitude of our councils. We need councillors to get over their antagonism to young people who form the majority of cyclists as they can't afford to drive and are fit enough to cycle and turn this conurbation round from the gridlocked smelly elephants graveyard that it has become into a place fit for our children's and grandchildren's futures.
There is no map of cycle lanes in Bournemouth Poole or Christchurch. Lanes should be mapped clearly showing width. The ridiculous lip service paid by the various councils to cycle routes is laughable. Silly narrow little lanes and suggested back street "routes" that don't even have lanes are ridiculous. Our hospitals are clogged up with asthma attacks brought on by car fumes. Everyone suffers from the anti cycling attitude of our councils. We need councillors to get over their antagonism to young people who form the majority of cyclists as they can't afford to drive and are fit enough to cycle and turn this conurbation round from the gridlocked smelly elephants graveyard that it has become into a place fit for our children's and grandchildren's futures. ashleycross
  • Score: 0

6:28am Tue 13 Dec 11

downfader says...

ashleycross wrote:
There is no map of cycle lanes in Bournemouth Poole or Christchurch. Lanes should be mapped clearly showing width. The ridiculous lip service paid by the various councils to cycle routes is laughable. Silly narrow little lanes and suggested back street "routes" that don't even have lanes are ridiculous. Our hospitals are clogged up with asthma attacks brought on by car fumes. Everyone suffers from the anti cycling attitude of our councils. We need councillors to get over their antagonism to young people who form the majority of cyclists as they can't afford to drive and are fit enough to cycle and turn this conurbation round from the gridlocked smelly elephants graveyard that it has become into a place fit for our children's and grandchildren's futures.
Every council usually provides a "cycling" section on its government website. Usually under "transport", and usually with either a pdf or jpg map. Might be worth looking there.
[quote][p][bold]ashleycross[/bold] wrote: There is no map of cycle lanes in Bournemouth Poole or Christchurch. Lanes should be mapped clearly showing width. The ridiculous lip service paid by the various councils to cycle routes is laughable. Silly narrow little lanes and suggested back street "routes" that don't even have lanes are ridiculous. Our hospitals are clogged up with asthma attacks brought on by car fumes. Everyone suffers from the anti cycling attitude of our councils. We need councillors to get over their antagonism to young people who form the majority of cyclists as they can't afford to drive and are fit enough to cycle and turn this conurbation round from the gridlocked smelly elephants graveyard that it has become into a place fit for our children's and grandchildren's futures.[/p][/quote]Every council usually provides a "cycling" section on its government website. Usually under "transport", and usually with either a pdf or jpg map. Might be worth looking there. downfader
  • Score: 0

10:41am Tue 13 Dec 11

Bournehammer68 says...

No Radical, we're different posters. I apologised for my rant so I'm not sure why you still have a bee in your bonnet. I used a bad word and the auto censor missed it move on.
No Radical, we're different posters. I apologised for my rant so I'm not sure why you still have a bee in your bonnet. I used a bad word and the auto censor missed it move on. Bournehammer68
  • Score: 0

11:06am Tue 13 Dec 11

Gooby says...

Proper cycling would make Bournemouth a far better place to be.

But cycling infrastructure will mean a fundamental change in the way the council act and a large scale reform of policy.

Bear with me.

For dedicated cycling lanes we would need far more space on the roads and less cars and parked vehicles. Properties would need to have thier own parking and not rely on parking on the roads to meet requirements.

Bournemouth council react to central government demands to build a certain amount of new housing. As bournemouth is land locked (sea in one direction, Poole in another, Christchurch and Ringwood) the only option is to create a higher density of housing on back gardens or build small flats. A good example of this is opposite me 2 houses were demolished and now there are 6 houses.

The demands on the infrastructure have increased and no changes have been made.

This kind of development will have to stop. Road space will be paramount. Large areas will have to be given over to the cycle and pedestrian.

Though I am not anti car, I am in favour of bettering the environment and less cars will make it safer for our children to play and go to school.
Proper cycling would make Bournemouth a far better place to be. But cycling infrastructure will mean a fundamental change in the way the council act and a large scale reform of policy. Bear with me. For dedicated cycling lanes we would need far more space on the roads and less cars and parked vehicles. Properties would need to have thier own parking and not rely on parking on the roads to meet requirements. Bournemouth council react to central government demands to build a certain amount of new housing. As bournemouth is land locked (sea in one direction, Poole in another, Christchurch and Ringwood) the only option is to create a higher density of housing on back gardens or build small flats. A good example of this is opposite me 2 houses were demolished and now there are 6 houses. The demands on the infrastructure have increased and no changes have been made. This kind of development will have to stop. Road space will be paramount. Large areas will have to be given over to the cycle and pedestrian. Though I am not anti car, I am in favour of bettering the environment and less cars will make it safer for our children to play and go to school. Gooby
  • Score: 0

12:02pm Tue 13 Dec 11

radical says...

Bournehammer68 wrote:
No Radical, we're different posters. I apologised for my rant so I'm not sure why you still have a bee in your bonnet. I used a bad word and the auto censor missed it move on.
Oh dear, someone got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning.
P.S it was more than one bad word.
[quote][p][bold]Bournehammer68[/bold] wrote: No Radical, we're different posters. I apologised for my rant so I'm not sure why you still have a bee in your bonnet. I used a bad word and the auto censor missed it move on.[/p][/quote]Oh dear, someone got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning. P.S it was more than one bad word. radical
  • Score: 0

12:09pm Tue 13 Dec 11

hammer says...

Jambonick wrote:
peter_c inquired.. > On a side note, where's > hammer today? I mean, > a cycle story she hasn't > commented on? With no bike, 'Hammer' is probably clawing her way thru some massive Xmas-shopping traffic jam. But don't fret: just like Arnold Swartisname.. She'll be back!
I must say I was touched that you missed me!
[quote][p][bold]Jambonick[/bold] wrote: peter_c inquired.. > On a side note, where's > hammer today? I mean, > a cycle story she hasn't > commented on? With no bike, 'Hammer' is probably clawing her way thru some massive Xmas-shopping traffic jam. But don't fret: just like Arnold Swartisname.. She'll be back![/p][/quote]I must say I was touched that you missed me! hammer
  • Score: 0

1:02pm Tue 13 Dec 11

Bournehammer68 says...

saynomore wrote:
oriteroom wrote:
The BBC recently published all road traffic deaths in England from 199-2010.

http://www.bbc.co.uk


/news/uk-15975720

Out of 49 deaths on roads in the Bournemouth area, 21, - yes 43%, were cyclists!! It's worse to cycle in Bournemouth than Manchester, Liverpool and many parts of London. The corridor from the Mountbatten Arms to Cemetery Juction (A3049/A347) scored the worst at 6.

Confirms my experience of the total lack of respect for cyclist on the road. If it's that many deaths then I dread to think of the odd broken limbs etc.
When cyclists show respect for everyone else then you may have a case,examples Jumong red Lights,no lights on their cycles,no bells when tearing up behond pedestrians and the suicial trent of wearing all black clothing,it is as if they are trying to get killed.Out of your 43% how many deaths were the fault of the said cyclists,it is all very well coming up with percentages but they need to be put into context.It is my fear as a responsible motorist (and part time cyclist) that I could cause the death of some irresponsible cyclist acting stupidly.
Saynomore are you saying they deserve to die? What a nice person you are.
[quote][p][bold]saynomore[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]oriteroom[/bold] wrote: The BBC recently published all road traffic deaths in England from 199-2010. http://www.bbc.co.uk /news/uk-15975720 Out of 49 deaths on roads in the Bournemouth area, 21, - yes 43%, were cyclists!! It's worse to cycle in Bournemouth than Manchester, Liverpool and many parts of London. The corridor from the Mountbatten Arms to Cemetery Juction (A3049/A347) scored the worst at 6. Confirms my experience of the total lack of respect for cyclist on the road. If it's that many deaths then I dread to think of the odd broken limbs etc.[/p][/quote]When cyclists show respect for everyone else then you may have a case,examples Jumong red Lights,no lights on their cycles,no bells when tearing up behond pedestrians and the suicial trent of wearing all black clothing,it is as if they are trying to get killed.Out of your 43% how many deaths were the fault of the said cyclists,it is all very well coming up with percentages but they need to be put into context.It is my fear as a responsible motorist (and part time cyclist) that I could cause the death of some irresponsible cyclist acting stupidly.[/p][/quote]Saynomore are you saying they deserve to die? What a nice person you are. Bournehammer68
  • Score: 0

2:01pm Tue 13 Dec 11

udaku says...

Ignore all cycle laws as a form of legitimate protest.

Had a copper stop me for jumping a red light on my bike, went not guilty. Three court cases later was fined a tenner, no costs.

Good use of resources?
Ignore all cycle laws as a form of legitimate protest. Had a copper stop me for jumping a red light on my bike, went not guilty. Three court cases later was fined a tenner, no costs. Good use of resources? udaku
  • Score: 0

2:14am Wed 14 Dec 11

Jambonick says...

Yet another cyclist 'hit-and-run ' fatality..

http://news.stv.tv/s
cotland/west-central
/287390-cyclist-dies
-after-hit-and-run-c
ollision/
Yet another cyclist 'hit-and-run ' fatality.. http://news.stv.tv/s cotland/west-central /287390-cyclist-dies -after-hit-and-run-c ollision/ Jambonick
  • Score: 0

9:43am Wed 14 Dec 11

doodlefish says...

MandinVerwood wrote:
Get bylawes passed so that all bikes and completly banned from Bournemouth and the local areas - be it on the road, seafront, off-road or even children's bikes.
.
We don't want them - okay it will put people out of jobs, create more issues with travelling and congestion and make people unfitter - but at least I don't have to look at them - as it offends me!
.
What we need is to take Bournemouth back and make it like it was in the 50's - Great for old people. We don't want other people here - this should be for people to retire to - maybe a few younger people to look after us - but that's all!
Go back home and stop being a fool. Bicycles have been around for years, before the car and are here to stay. Its only people like you who think that cyclists are the problem.
Open your eyes. Only a smell amount of idiots cycle on the pavements not the road. You obviously can't see the number of drivers that drive wile on the phone, with lights off or parking on the pavement and sometimes driving on them too.
[quote][p][bold]MandinVerwood[/bold] wrote: Get bylawes passed so that all bikes and completly banned from Bournemouth and the local areas - be it on the road, seafront, off-road or even children's bikes. . We don't want them - okay it will put people out of jobs, create more issues with travelling and congestion and make people unfitter - but at least I don't have to look at them - as it offends me! . What we need is to take Bournemouth back and make it like it was in the 50's - Great for old people. We don't want other people here - this should be for people to retire to - maybe a few younger people to look after us - but that's all![/p][/quote]Go back home and stop being a fool. Bicycles have been around for years, before the car and are here to stay. Its only people like you who think that cyclists are the problem. Open your eyes. Only a smell amount of idiots cycle on the pavements not the road. You obviously can't see the number of drivers that drive wile on the phone, with lights off or parking on the pavement and sometimes driving on them too. doodlefish
  • Score: 0

5:03pm Wed 14 Dec 11

downfader says...

doodlefish wrote:
MandinVerwood wrote:
Get bylawes passed so that all bikes and completly banned from Bournemouth and the local areas - be it on the road, seafront, off-road or even children's bikes.
.
We don't want them - okay it will put people out of jobs, create more issues with travelling and congestion and make people unfitter - but at least I don't have to look at them - as it offends me!
.
What we need is to take Bournemouth back and make it like it was in the 50's - Great for old people. We don't want other people here - this should be for people to retire to - maybe a few younger people to look after us - but that's all!
Go back home and stop being a fool. Bicycles have been around for years, before the car and are here to stay. Its only people like you who think that cyclists are the problem.
Open your eyes. Only a smell amount of idiots cycle on the pavements not the road. You obviously can't see the number of drivers that drive wile on the phone, with lights off or parking on the pavement and sometimes driving on them too.
The Big M was being ironic, satirically poking fun at the naysayers on here.
;-)
[quote][p][bold]doodlefish[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MandinVerwood[/bold] wrote: Get bylawes passed so that all bikes and completly banned from Bournemouth and the local areas - be it on the road, seafront, off-road or even children's bikes. . We don't want them - okay it will put people out of jobs, create more issues with travelling and congestion and make people unfitter - but at least I don't have to look at them - as it offends me! . What we need is to take Bournemouth back and make it like it was in the 50's - Great for old people. We don't want other people here - this should be for people to retire to - maybe a few younger people to look after us - but that's all![/p][/quote]Go back home and stop being a fool. Bicycles have been around for years, before the car and are here to stay. Its only people like you who think that cyclists are the problem. Open your eyes. Only a smell amount of idiots cycle on the pavements not the road. You obviously can't see the number of drivers that drive wile on the phone, with lights off or parking on the pavement and sometimes driving on them too.[/p][/quote]The Big M was being ironic, satirically poking fun at the naysayers on here. ;-) downfader
  • Score: 0

6:29pm Wed 14 Dec 11

bournemouthsimon says...

I agree with the councillor car drivers in Bournemouth need to be re tested as they have no respect for cyclists at, this is to all car drivers who offend cyclists go boil your heads
I agree with the councillor car drivers in Bournemouth need to be re tested as they have no respect for cyclists at, this is to all car drivers who offend cyclists go boil your heads bournemouthsimon
  • Score: 0

11:40am Thu 15 Dec 11

doodlefish says...

uvox44 wrote:
why not make cycling on pavements legal but with a 4mph speed limit? And to the inevitable replies about it not being enforced - well seems ok for a much heavier , more dangerous car on the road, how many people keep to 30 around town ? Even past schools and down narrow residential roads- the backstreets of winton are very narrow but do people, including those paragons of virtue mothers with young kids, slow down? Do they hell.
But let's ignore all that and instead demonise people who are actually using transport that is a lot less dangerous and produces NO pollution and can help free up the roads from gridlock- truely forward thinking don't you agree?
Thats what I like, forward thinking. The pavements on the back streets are to narrow in Winton to cycle down.
[quote][p][bold]uvox44[/bold] wrote: why not make cycling on pavements legal but with a 4mph speed limit? And to the inevitable replies about it not being enforced - well seems ok for a much heavier , more dangerous car on the road, how many people keep to 30 around town ? Even past schools and down narrow residential roads- the backstreets of winton are very narrow but do people, including those paragons of virtue mothers with young kids, slow down? Do they hell. But let's ignore all that and instead demonise people who are actually using transport that is a lot less dangerous and produces NO pollution and can help free up the roads from gridlock- truely forward thinking don't you agree?[/p][/quote]Thats what I like, forward thinking. The pavements on the back streets are to narrow in Winton to cycle down. doodlefish
  • Score: 0

11:48am Thu 15 Dec 11

doodlefish says...

radical wrote:
eyeinthesky wrote:
Wow! The troll had a bad night's sleep!

If the council provided sufficient facilities for cyclists to be able to complete their journies safely on fit-for-purpose cycle lanes I dare say that there wouldn't be cyclists on the pavements. How many "cycle lanes" do we have that just "appear" as suddenly as they disappear on our roads? Call me cynical but it's as though the council are trying to bump up the figures in terms of overall mileage of cycle lanes in the town to meet some kind of government-set target and so any scrap of cycle lane they can provide will count....

as for Cllr Smith not knowing how many people are killed on the roads of Dorset.... If he (or any other elected member of our council) want to be taken seriously during a debate they should do their research properly. All it needed was a phone call to Dorset Police and they would have told him the exact numbers of cyclists who have been killed in any given period of time.

Cyclists come in varying ages and degrees of ability. It is not safe to arbitrarily chuck them all on the roads. This isn't a problem that the cyclists can solve on their own. It's going to require engineering on the part of the council, education and a change of attitude by vehicle drivers. Until that happens it is unfair to penalise cyclists unless it can be shown that they have broken the law in such a way that it puts themselves or any other person at risk of serious harm.
the council already provide facilities for cyclists, it's called the road, the same way the council provide facilities for the safety of pedestrians, the pavement, why should council tax be used to give a selective few their own cycle track.
Or why don't you try and cycle or walk sometime? I cycle on the road and drivers get all funny about it. Grow some legs!
[quote][p][bold]radical[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]eyeinthesky[/bold] wrote: Wow! The troll had a bad night's sleep! If the council provided sufficient facilities for cyclists to be able to complete their journies safely on fit-for-purpose cycle lanes I dare say that there wouldn't be cyclists on the pavements. How many "cycle lanes" do we have that just "appear" as suddenly as they disappear on our roads? Call me cynical but it's as though the council are trying to bump up the figures in terms of overall mileage of cycle lanes in the town to meet some kind of government-set target and so any scrap of cycle lane they can provide will count.... as for Cllr Smith not knowing how many people are killed on the roads of Dorset.... If he (or any other elected member of our council) want to be taken seriously during a debate they should do their research properly. All it needed was a phone call to Dorset Police and they would have told him the exact numbers of cyclists who have been killed in any given period of time. Cyclists come in varying ages and degrees of ability. It is not safe to arbitrarily chuck them all on the roads. This isn't a problem that the cyclists can solve on their own. It's going to require engineering on the part of the council, education and a change of attitude by vehicle drivers. Until that happens it is unfair to penalise cyclists unless it can be shown that they have broken the law in such a way that it puts themselves or any other person at risk of serious harm.[/p][/quote]the council already provide facilities for cyclists, it's called the road, the same way the council provide facilities for the safety of pedestrians, the pavement, why should council tax be used to give a selective few their own cycle track.[/p][/quote]Or why don't you try and cycle or walk sometime? I cycle on the road and drivers get all funny about it. Grow some legs! doodlefish
  • Score: 0

11:51am Thu 15 Dec 11

alanhl says...

Rich_Enduro wrote:
well done to Dave Smith for speaking out. the idiot that hit the girl was a lout, not a cyclist.
nothing much is being said about the cyclist who it seems is fighting for his life after being hit by a car on Friday. my thoughts go out to him.

http://www.bournemou

thecho.co.uk/news/94

12493.UPDATED__Cycli

st_suffers_serious_i

njuries_in_Castle_La

ne_crash/?ref=mr
your "link" only takes us back to this article, i think this like many others is just a ruse by cyclists who ride on pavements to deflect criticism from themselves, all cyclists who ride on pavements are thugs regardless of age. when i was young my parents would not allow me to cycle to a destination that was dangerous to achieve. the same should apply now- the safer mode of transport that i had to use was the bus
[quote][p][bold]Rich_Enduro[/bold] wrote: well done to Dave Smith for speaking out. the idiot that hit the girl was a lout, not a cyclist. nothing much is being said about the cyclist who it seems is fighting for his life after being hit by a car on Friday. my thoughts go out to him. http://www.bournemou thecho.co.uk/news/94 12493.UPDATED__Cycli st_suffers_serious_i njuries_in_Castle_La ne_crash/?ref=mr[/p][/quote]your "link" only takes us back to this article, i think this like many others is just a ruse by cyclists who ride on pavements to deflect criticism from themselves, all cyclists who ride on pavements are thugs regardless of age. when i was young my parents would not allow me to cycle to a destination that was dangerous to achieve. the same should apply now- the safer mode of transport that i had to use was the bus alanhl
  • Score: 0

11:53am Thu 15 Dec 11

doodlefish says...

pete woodley wrote:
Get off your bike smith and try using the pavement,lets see you dodging cyclists,and getting sent flying in Winton,like i was,and then punched when i complained.
I cycle on the road. Here is a funny, I try and push cyclists into the road if they are on the pavement if I am walking.
[quote][p][bold]pete woodley[/bold] wrote: Get off your bike smith and try using the pavement,lets see you dodging cyclists,and getting sent flying in Winton,like i was,and then punched when i complained.[/p][/quote]I cycle on the road. Here is a funny, I try and push cyclists into the road if they are on the pavement if I am walking. doodlefish
  • Score: 0

11:56am Thu 15 Dec 11

alanhl says...

doodlefish wrote:
pete woodley wrote:
Get off your bike smith and try using the pavement,lets see you dodging cyclists,and getting sent flying in Winton,like i was,and then punched when i complained.
I cycle on the road. Here is a funny, I try and push cyclists into the road if they are on the pavement if I am walking.
you've changed your tune from 2 comments ago
[quote][p][bold]doodlefish[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]pete woodley[/bold] wrote: Get off your bike smith and try using the pavement,lets see you dodging cyclists,and getting sent flying in Winton,like i was,and then punched when i complained.[/p][/quote]I cycle on the road. Here is a funny, I try and push cyclists into the road if they are on the pavement if I am walking.[/p][/quote]you've changed your tune from 2 comments ago alanhl
  • Score: 0

12:11pm Thu 15 Dec 11

stevobath says...

MandinVerwood wrote:
Get bylawes passed so that all bikes and completly banned from Bournemouth and the local areas - be it on the road, seafront, off-road or even children's bikes.
.
We don't want them - okay it will put people out of jobs, create more issues with travelling and congestion and make people unfitter - but at least I don't have to look at them - as it offends me!
.
What we need is to take Bournemouth back and make it like it was in the 50's - Great for old people. We don't want other people here - this should be for people to retire to - maybe a few younger people to look after us - but that's all!
LMAO!
[quote][p][bold]MandinVerwood[/bold] wrote: Get bylawes passed so that all bikes and completly banned from Bournemouth and the local areas - be it on the road, seafront, off-road or even children's bikes. . We don't want them - okay it will put people out of jobs, create more issues with travelling and congestion and make people unfitter - but at least I don't have to look at them - as it offends me! . What we need is to take Bournemouth back and make it like it was in the 50's - Great for old people. We don't want other people here - this should be for people to retire to - maybe a few younger people to look after us - but that's all![/p][/quote]LMAO! stevobath
  • Score: 0

12:24pm Thu 15 Dec 11

stevobath says...

The only decent 'MOTIONS' Bournemouth Council have EVER passed, have been 1st thing in the morning while sitting on the toilet!
Obviously crack down on irrisponsible cyclists, but make sure EVERY car driver parking on pavements,on their mobiles & driving without due care are persecuted even MORE! Far more idiots driving cars,thats why cyclists causing major accidents etc, make such big headlines.
If someone in a car drives past blatantly breaking the law, its easy to rant & rave initially, but the culprit is gone in a flash & totally APATHETIC to any suffering they may cause others.A cyclist on the other hand is easy to shout at As theyre not in their 'RIGID STEEL SAFETY CAGE'. Id say motorists are far more inconsiderate.

Another thing. Ban those over 75 from driving big powerful automatics.There have been loads of accidents involving SENILE drivers, whove 'pressed the wrong pedal' over the years. I was witness to one such accident.Two old ladies both lost limbs because of some doderry OAP, who shouldnt have been in charge of a DOLLS PRAM let alone a 3.5L Rover auto!
The only decent 'MOTIONS' Bournemouth Council have EVER passed, have been 1st thing in the morning while sitting on the toilet! Obviously crack down on irrisponsible cyclists, but make sure EVERY car driver parking on pavements,on their mobiles & driving without due care are persecuted even MORE! Far more idiots driving cars,thats why cyclists causing major accidents etc, make such big headlines. If someone in a car drives past blatantly breaking the law, its easy to rant & rave initially, but the culprit is gone in a flash & totally APATHETIC to any suffering they may cause others.A cyclist on the other hand is easy to shout at As theyre not in their 'RIGID STEEL SAFETY CAGE'. Id say motorists are far more inconsiderate. Another thing. Ban those over 75 from driving big powerful automatics.There have been loads of accidents involving SENILE drivers, whove 'pressed the wrong pedal' over the years. I was witness to one such accident.Two old ladies both lost limbs because of some doderry OAP, who shouldnt have been in charge of a DOLLS PRAM let alone a 3.5L Rover auto! stevobath
  • Score: 0

6:27pm Thu 15 Dec 11

ian825 says...

MandinVerwood wrote:
Get bylawes passed so that all bikes and completly banned from Bournemouth and the local areas - be it on the road, seafront, off-road or even children's bikes.
.
We don't want them - okay it will put people out of jobs, create more issues with travelling and congestion and make people unfitter - but at least I don't have to look at them - as it offends me!
.
What we need is to take Bournemouth back and make it like it was in the 50's - Great for old people. We don't want other people here - this should be for people to retire to - maybe a few younger people to look after us - but that's all!
You sad person, why should Bournemouth be just for old people?
cycling is a great thing, it offends you?? i would love to see you face to face as what you have said is the most pathetic i have ever read on the echo comments page. sad sad person, if you live in Verwood , what have you got to do with Bournemouth, stay there in your little bungalow moaning about the world you sad #u*ts
[quote][p][bold]MandinVerwood[/bold] wrote: Get bylawes passed so that all bikes and completly banned from Bournemouth and the local areas - be it on the road, seafront, off-road or even children's bikes. . We don't want them - okay it will put people out of jobs, create more issues with travelling and congestion and make people unfitter - but at least I don't have to look at them - as it offends me! . What we need is to take Bournemouth back and make it like it was in the 50's - Great for old people. We don't want other people here - this should be for people to retire to - maybe a few younger people to look after us - but that's all![/p][/quote]You sad person, why should Bournemouth be just for old people? cycling is a great thing, it offends you?? i would love to see you face to face as what you have said is the most pathetic i have ever read on the echo comments page. sad sad person, if you live in Verwood , what have you got to do with Bournemouth, stay there in your little bungalow moaning about the world you sad #u*ts ian825
  • Score: 0

6:34pm Thu 15 Dec 11

peter_c says...

Ian825, it was a rhetorical point, as MandinVerwood is also a cyclist who sticks up for our rights on the road (although granted I haven't read all the posts since my earlier ones...)
Ian825, it was a rhetorical point, as MandinVerwood is also a cyclist who sticks up for our rights on the road (although granted I haven't read all the posts since my earlier ones...) peter_c
  • Score: 0

8:16am Fri 16 Dec 11

MandinVerwood says...

ian825 wrote:
MandinVerwood wrote:
Get bylawes passed so that all bikes and completly banned from Bournemouth and the local areas - be it on the road, seafront, off-road or even children's bikes.
.
We don't want them - okay it will put people out of jobs, create more issues with travelling and congestion and make people unfitter - but at least I don't have to look at them - as it offends me!
.
What we need is to take Bournemouth back and make it like it was in the 50's - Great for old people. We don't want other people here - this should be for people to retire to - maybe a few younger people to look after us - but that's all!
You sad person, why should Bournemouth be just for old people?
cycling is a great thing, it offends you?? i would love to see you face to face as what you have said is the most pathetic i have ever read on the echo comments page. sad sad person, if you live in Verwood , what have you got to do with Bournemouth, stay there in your little bungalow moaning about the world you sad #u*ts
Yes, It was very much tounge in cheek!
.
I do live in Verwood - with my family, but work in Bournemouth and cycle the 14.5 miles each way as often as possible and then cycle on both roads and mountain bike as much as possible too - but my family life keeps getting in the way! All four of us like to be out on our bikes and as a parent I want to ensure that my children have the same freedoms that I had as a child 30 years ago, where I would get around everywhere by bike and had no worries doign so.
[quote][p][bold]ian825[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MandinVerwood[/bold] wrote: Get bylawes passed so that all bikes and completly banned from Bournemouth and the local areas - be it on the road, seafront, off-road or even children's bikes. . We don't want them - okay it will put people out of jobs, create more issues with travelling and congestion and make people unfitter - but at least I don't have to look at them - as it offends me! . What we need is to take Bournemouth back and make it like it was in the 50's - Great for old people. We don't want other people here - this should be for people to retire to - maybe a few younger people to look after us - but that's all![/p][/quote]You sad person, why should Bournemouth be just for old people? cycling is a great thing, it offends you?? i would love to see you face to face as what you have said is the most pathetic i have ever read on the echo comments page. sad sad person, if you live in Verwood , what have you got to do with Bournemouth, stay there in your little bungalow moaning about the world you sad #u*ts[/p][/quote]Yes, It was very much tounge in cheek! . I do live in Verwood - with my family, but work in Bournemouth and cycle the 14.5 miles each way as often as possible and then cycle on both roads and mountain bike as much as possible too - but my family life keeps getting in the way! All four of us like to be out on our bikes and as a parent I want to ensure that my children have the same freedoms that I had as a child 30 years ago, where I would get around everywhere by bike and had no worries doign so. MandinVerwood
  • Score: 0

8:26am Fri 16 Dec 11

MandinVerwood says...

ian825 wrote:
MandinVerwood wrote:
Get bylawes passed so that all bikes and completly banned from Bournemouth and the local areas - be it on the road, seafront, off-road or even children's bikes.
.
We don't want them - okay it will put people out of jobs, create more issues with travelling and congestion and make people unfitter - but at least I don't have to look at them - as it offends me!
.
What we need is to take Bournemouth back and make it like it was in the 50's - Great for old people. We don't want other people here - this should be for people to retire to - maybe a few younger people to look after us - but that's all!
You sad person, why should Bournemouth be just for old people?
cycling is a great thing, it offends you?? i would love to see you face to face as what you have said is the most pathetic i have ever read on the echo comments page. sad sad person, if you live in Verwood , what have you got to do with Bournemouth, stay there in your little bungalow moaning about the world you sad #u*ts
Oh and I love cars too! When I don't cycle to work (which is most the time now) I drive, but also drive for fun and like nothing better than getting behind the wheel of a sports car and getting the wind in your hair.
.
But with whatever you do - you have responibilites to yourself and others - that is why I will ride or drive safely - but that may mean it could inconvience other road users for a matter of seconds. I will mayke the most loical choice for my saftey at the time - and if that means not using a cycle path as the road is safer - so be it.
[quote][p][bold]ian825[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MandinVerwood[/bold] wrote: Get bylawes passed so that all bikes and completly banned from Bournemouth and the local areas - be it on the road, seafront, off-road or even children's bikes. . We don't want them - okay it will put people out of jobs, create more issues with travelling and congestion and make people unfitter - but at least I don't have to look at them - as it offends me! . What we need is to take Bournemouth back and make it like it was in the 50's - Great for old people. We don't want other people here - this should be for people to retire to - maybe a few younger people to look after us - but that's all![/p][/quote]You sad person, why should Bournemouth be just for old people? cycling is a great thing, it offends you?? i would love to see you face to face as what you have said is the most pathetic i have ever read on the echo comments page. sad sad person, if you live in Verwood , what have you got to do with Bournemouth, stay there in your little bungalow moaning about the world you sad #u*ts[/p][/quote]Oh and I love cars too! When I don't cycle to work (which is most the time now) I drive, but also drive for fun and like nothing better than getting behind the wheel of a sports car and getting the wind in your hair. . But with whatever you do - you have responibilites to yourself and others - that is why I will ride or drive safely - but that may mean it could inconvience other road users for a matter of seconds. I will mayke the most loical choice for my saftey at the time - and if that means not using a cycle path as the road is safer - so be it. MandinVerwood
  • Score: 0

11:45am Fri 16 Dec 11

ScaredAmoeba says...

old git 2 wrote:
its about time the cyclists actually used the cycle lanes that they are provided with - how many times do you drive along a road with a cycle lane and see a cyclist sat in the middle of the caridgeway!

and as for police enforceing parked vehicles - its a civil matter and not one for the police!

i see no problems with cyclists using the pavements RESPONSIBILY! (on busy roads such as Wimborne rd where there are no lanes for them!) just the same as pedrestrians and invilid scooters do. But this is about educating EVERYONE - not just cyclists or pedrestrens.

yes - cyclists should have some form of insurance. it could be an addition to their buildings / contents / personal liaibility.

Im a driver and a cyclist. I use cycle lanes. i am lit up like a christmas tree at night! i do everything in my power to make myself visable to ALL road users.
i care about my health and safety and will do everything in my power to ensure that i protect myself against stupid people!
old git 2 wrote:
"its about time the cyclists actually used the cycle lanes that they are provided with - how many times do you drive along a road with a cycle lane and see a cyclist sat in the middle of the caridgeway! ... Im a driver and a cyclist. I use cycle lanes. i am lit up like a christmas tree at night! i do everything in my power to make myself visable to ALL road users."

It is not compulsory for cyclists to use Cycle infrastructure. See the Highway Code for details. Furthermore, since cycle infrastructure is only very rarely safe to use and fit for purpose, it is safer not to use it. Many cycle facilities are dangerous to use , or are littered with obstacles intentionally placed there to prevent their use by cyclists. e.g. litter bins; trees; traffic signs; railings; fences; mystery obstacles; & etc.

Shining examples of cycling infrastructure are illustrated here:
http://homepage.ntlw
orld.com/pete.meg/wc
c/facility-of-the-mo
nth/

Indeed, this is what Cyclecraft, the manual for Bikeability by John Franklin, says:
'In the UK, there is no legal obligation on cyclists to use cycle lanes and you should only do so where it is safe and to your advantage. As far as you can, ignore the presence of a cycle lane in determining the best position to ride on the road,....'
p 91

Cyclists are best advised to cycle in an assertive position. Cycling in the gutter is ill-advised.

BTW the 'cyclists dismount' is advisory and can be ignored.

Cycling without lights at night is stupid.

I'm pretty sure I don't believe you are a cyclist.

Your spelling also leaves much to be desired.
[quote][p][bold]old git 2[/bold] wrote: its about time the cyclists actually used the cycle lanes that they are provided with - how many times do you drive along a road with a cycle lane and see a cyclist sat in the middle of the caridgeway! and as for police enforceing parked vehicles - its a civil matter and not one for the police! i see no problems with cyclists using the pavements RESPONSIBILY! (on busy roads such as Wimborne rd where there are no lanes for them!) just the same as pedrestrians and invilid scooters do. But this is about educating EVERYONE - not just cyclists or pedrestrens. yes - cyclists should have some form of insurance. it could be an addition to their buildings / contents / personal liaibility. Im a driver and a cyclist. I use cycle lanes. i am lit up like a christmas tree at night! i do everything in my power to make myself visable to ALL road users. i care about my health and safety and will do everything in my power to ensure that i protect myself against stupid people![/p][/quote]old git 2 wrote: "its about time the cyclists actually used the cycle lanes that they are provided with - how many times do you drive along a road with a cycle lane and see a cyclist sat in the middle of the caridgeway! ... Im a driver and a cyclist. I use cycle lanes. i am lit up like a christmas tree at night! i do everything in my power to make myself visable to ALL road users." It is not compulsory for cyclists to use Cycle infrastructure. See the Highway Code for details. Furthermore, since cycle infrastructure is only very rarely safe to use and fit for purpose, it is safer not to use it. Many cycle facilities are dangerous to use [Door-zone, etc.], or are littered with obstacles intentionally placed there to prevent their use by cyclists. e.g. litter bins; trees; traffic signs; railings; fences; mystery obstacles; & etc. Shining examples of cycling infrastructure are illustrated here: http://homepage.ntlw orld.com/pete.meg/wc c/facility-of-the-mo nth/ Indeed, this is what Cyclecraft, the manual for Bikeability by John Franklin, says: 'In the UK, there is no legal obligation on cyclists to use cycle lanes and you should only do so where it is safe and to your advantage. As far as you can, ignore the presence of a cycle lane in determining the best position to ride on the road,....' p 91 Cyclists are best advised to cycle in an assertive position. Cycling in the gutter is ill-advised. BTW the 'cyclists dismount' is advisory and can be ignored. Cycling without lights at night is stupid. I'm pretty sure I don't believe you are a cyclist. Your spelling also leaves much to be desired. ScaredAmoeba
  • Score: 0

11:47am Fri 16 Dec 11

stevobath says...

Thing is, motorists feel aggreived as they pay so much in taxes etc.Obviously they own the roads & cyclists should be banned.Awful things bikes.On many a morning you can see awful cyclists getting upset just cause a car driver has knocked them off their cycle!The cheek of those cyclists.Fancy expecting to ride on the rd or cycle route & NOT be harrassed by a motor car?
After all, bikes have only been around on our roads a lot longer than cars.
Forgot to add. Its not just those on BENEFITS that have caused our economic problems, its the pesky cyclists & their evil bikes too.
Yes Im a proud ECHO reader along with its 'sister paper' full of 'real news items' THE DAILY MAIL! LOL :)
Thing is, motorists feel aggreived as they pay so much in taxes etc.Obviously they own the roads & cyclists should be banned.Awful things bikes.On many a morning you can see awful cyclists getting upset just cause a car driver has knocked them off their cycle!The cheek of those cyclists.Fancy expecting to ride on the rd or cycle route & NOT be harrassed by a motor car? After all, bikes have only been around on our roads a lot longer than cars. Forgot to add. Its not just those on BENEFITS that have caused our economic problems, its the pesky cyclists & their evil bikes too. Yes Im a proud ECHO reader along with its 'sister paper' full of 'real news items' THE DAILY MAIL! LOL :) stevobath
  • Score: 0

1:54pm Fri 16 Dec 11

LBUZZ CHERRY says...

So no comments allowed on another hit and run on a cyclist by a 'saintly' driver??

What a suprise....
So no comments allowed on another hit and run on a cyclist by a 'saintly' driver?? What a suprise.... LBUZZ CHERRY
  • Score: 0

2:57pm Fri 16 Dec 11

ScaredAmoeba says...

A number of complaints have been made here about pavement cycling.

As a cyclist who drives, I don't like any illegal behaviour, including pavement cycling. However, I suspect that many of those who cycle have been frightened off the roads which are hostile to cyclists. Cyclists notice and many now video their journeys, increasingly front and rear. There are many videos on the net that show deliberate harassment of cyclists; assaults; rudeness; bad, aggressive, angry and dangerous driving.

There are some very bad drivers out there. I see them every day. Driving at night without lights; or with fog-lights at night; or speeding; too close; grossly ignorant of the rules of the road.

When I'm on my bike, I'm frequently followed dangerously close behind; passed dangerously close at speed; overtaken by people then turn left or stop, blocking my path and forcing me to brake hard or stop; overtaken around blind bends; people open doors into my path; and of course, I get shouted at by people who feel the need to demonstrate publicly their ignorance and stupidity and I have had objects thrown at me.

Is this the way civilised people behave? I doubt it very much.

Driving definitely has an effect on people, and it isn't good.

Some time ago, I was followed very closely by an impatient woman driver who clearly wanted to pass and kept hooting me and revving her engine. I then pointed-out to her that she shouldn't be there, because around 300 metres back she had driven past a prominent 'No Entry' sign, excepting Taxis; Buses and Cyclists. All I got was a #?&%!

People on bicycles do not slow-down cars because by removing cars from the roads, they remove congestion.

Many times I have been passed by an incompetent driver who has the mind-set that they must pass cyclists at all costs, only to pass them shortly afterwards.

If drivers are always in such a hurry, they should read the Highway Code and leave sufficiently early.

Rule 97
Before setting off. You should ensure that you have planned your route and allowed sufficient time...
http://www.direct.go
v.uk/en/TravelAndTra
nsport/Highwaycode/D
G_069855
A number of complaints have been made here about pavement cycling. As a cyclist who drives, I don't like any illegal behaviour, including pavement cycling. However, I suspect that many of those who cycle have been frightened off the roads which are hostile to cyclists. Cyclists notice and many now video their journeys, increasingly front and rear. There are many videos on the net that show deliberate harassment of cyclists; assaults; rudeness; bad, aggressive, angry and dangerous driving. There are some very bad drivers out there. I see them every day. Driving at night without lights; or with fog-lights at night; or speeding; too close; grossly ignorant of the rules of the road. When I'm on my bike, I'm frequently followed dangerously close behind; passed dangerously close at speed; overtaken by people then turn left or stop, blocking my path and forcing me to brake hard or stop; overtaken around blind bends; people open doors into my path; and of course, I get shouted at by people who feel the need to demonstrate publicly their ignorance and stupidity and I have had objects thrown at me. Is this the way civilised people behave? I doubt it very much. Driving definitely has an effect on people, and it isn't good. Some time ago, I was followed very closely by an impatient woman driver who clearly wanted to pass and kept hooting me and revving her engine. I then pointed-out to her that she shouldn't be there, because around 300 metres back she had driven past a prominent 'No Entry' sign, excepting Taxis; Buses and Cyclists. All I got was a #?&%! People on bicycles do not slow-down cars because by removing cars from the roads, they remove congestion. Many times I have been passed by an incompetent driver who has the mind-set that they must pass cyclists at all costs, only to pass them shortly afterwards. If drivers are always in such a hurry, they should read the Highway Code and leave sufficiently early. Rule 97 Before setting off. You should ensure that you have planned your route and allowed sufficient time... http://www.direct.go v.uk/en/TravelAndTra nsport/Highwaycode/D G_069855 ScaredAmoeba
  • Score: 0

4:59pm Fri 16 Dec 11

T.BH1 says...

It's funny, when you see a person driving take SO much care when trying to pass someone riding a horse in the countryside, but when it comes to sharing the road with someone on a bike, they're treated like vermin.
.
Screw High-Vis clothing, I'm going to try and try down a horse costume for my commute.
It's funny, when you see a person driving take SO much care when trying to pass someone riding a horse in the countryside, but when it comes to sharing the road with someone on a bike, they're treated like vermin. . Screw High-Vis clothing, I'm going to try and try down a horse costume for my commute. T.BH1
  • Score: 0

5:51pm Fri 16 Dec 11

downfader says...

T.BH1 wrote:
It's funny, when you see a person driving take SO much care when trying to pass someone riding a horse in the countryside, but when it comes to sharing the road with someone on a bike, they're treated like vermin.
.
Screw High-Vis clothing, I'm going to try and try down a horse costume for my commute.
Its not always the case with horses. There have been documented issues in the New Forest, and some riders have raised issues (online and in many publications)
[quote][p][bold]T.BH1[/bold] wrote: It's funny, when you see a person driving take SO much care when trying to pass someone riding a horse in the countryside, but when it comes to sharing the road with someone on a bike, they're treated like vermin. . Screw High-Vis clothing, I'm going to try and try down a horse costume for my commute.[/p][/quote]Its not always the case with horses. There have been documented issues in the New Forest, and some riders have raised issues (online and in many publications) downfader
  • Score: 0

6:00pm Fri 16 Dec 11

Jambonick says...

'ScaredAmoeba' unwittingly scared us cyclists a bit more when revealing..

'When I'm on my bike, I'm frequently followed dangerously close behind; passed dangerously close at speed; overtaken by people then turn left or stop, blocking my path and forcing me to brake hard or stop; overtaken around blind bends; people open doors into my path; and of course, I get shouted at by people who feel the need to demonstrate publicly their ignorance and stupidity and I have had objects thrown at me'.

'Is this the way civilised people behave? I doubt it very much'.

The short answer is no! civilised people don't behave this way.

The people you describe (whom I have also encountered when cycling) are far from civilised! They are uncivilised, selfish, arrogant louts, in charge of a motor vehicle, which (in their hands) can be accurately described as a lethal weapon!

When seeing a cyclist in front of them, many of the thoughtless clots are absolutely COMPELLED to overtake! They just HAVE to get passed the cyclist at any cost; with a total disregard for oncoming vehicles. I have seen several near-misses and near head-ons, caused by those so-called 'drivers' overtaking a cyclist!

ScaredAmoeba continued with..

'Driving definitely has an effect on people, and it isn't good'.

You know; I've been wondering for years why apparently nice, ordinary unassuming people become almost unrecognisable and unbearable when behind the wheel? Why is that? Is it simply frustration? Is it arrogance? Is it ignorance? Is it simply human nature? Can anyone explain?

Maybe some students at Bournemouth Uni or Poole College could consider commencing a driver-study project? Perhaps the project could be called..

'Why do lots of seemingly sane human beings behave like wild animals when behind the wheel'?

Just a thought!
'ScaredAmoeba' unwittingly scared us cyclists a bit more when revealing.. 'When I'm on my bike, I'm frequently followed dangerously close behind; passed dangerously close at speed; overtaken by people then turn left or stop, blocking my path and forcing me to brake hard or stop; overtaken around blind bends; people open doors into my path; and of course, I get shouted at by people who feel the need to demonstrate publicly their ignorance and stupidity and I have had objects thrown at me'. 'Is this the way civilised people behave? I doubt it very much'. The short answer is no! civilised people don't behave this way. The people you describe (whom I have also encountered when cycling) are far from civilised! They are uncivilised, selfish, arrogant louts, in charge of a motor vehicle, which (in their hands) can be accurately described as a lethal weapon! When seeing a cyclist in front of them, many of the thoughtless clots are absolutely COMPELLED to overtake! They just HAVE to get passed the cyclist at any cost; with a total disregard for oncoming vehicles. I have seen several near-misses and near head-ons, caused by those so-called 'drivers' overtaking a cyclist! ScaredAmoeba continued with.. 'Driving definitely has an effect on people, and it isn't good'. You know; I've been wondering for years why apparently nice, ordinary unassuming people become almost unrecognisable and unbearable when behind the wheel? Why is that? Is it simply frustration? Is it arrogance? Is it ignorance? Is it simply human nature? Can anyone explain? Maybe some students at Bournemouth Uni or Poole College could consider commencing a driver-study project? Perhaps the project could be called.. 'Why do lots of seemingly sane human beings behave like wild animals when behind the wheel'? Just a thought! Jambonick
  • Score: 0

8:46am Sat 17 Dec 11

ScaredAmoeba says...

From Pedestrian Liberation blog:
http://pedestrianlib
eration.org/2011/11/
17/the-casualties-of
-war/

Peter Miller’s excellent visualisation the ITOWorld map of road casualties 2000-2010 is here:
http://map.itoworld.
com/road-casualties-
uk#
From Pedestrian Liberation blog: http://pedestrianlib eration.org/2011/11/ 17/the-casualties-of -war/ Peter Miller’s excellent visualisation the ITOWorld map of road casualties 2000-2010 is here: http://map.itoworld. com/road-casualties- uk# ScaredAmoeba
  • Score: 0

8:46am Sat 17 Dec 11

ScaredAmoeba says...

From Pedestrian Liberation blog:
http://pedestrianlib
eration.org/2011/11/
17/the-casualties-of
-war/

Peter Miller’s excellent visualisation the ITOWorld map of road casualties 2000-2010 is here:
http://map.itoworld.
com/road-casualties-
uk#
From Pedestrian Liberation blog: http://pedestrianlib eration.org/2011/11/ 17/the-casualties-of -war/ Peter Miller’s excellent visualisation the ITOWorld map of road casualties 2000-2010 is here: http://map.itoworld. com/road-casualties- uk# ScaredAmoeba
  • Score: 0

8:48am Sat 17 Dec 11

ScaredAmoeba says...

Peter Miller’s excellent visualisation the ITOWorld map of UK road casualties 2000-2010 is here:

From Pedestrian Liberation blog:
Search for:
Pedestrian Liberation Casualties of War
Peter Miller’s excellent visualisation the ITOWorld map of UK road casualties 2000-2010 is here: From Pedestrian Liberation blog: Search for: Pedestrian Liberation Casualties of War ScaredAmoeba
  • Score: 0

9:03am Sat 17 Dec 11

ScaredAmoeba says...

ScaredAmoeba wrote:
Peter Miller’s excellent visualisation the ITOWorld map of UK road casualties 2000-2010 is here:

From Pedestrian Liberation blog:
Search for:
Pedestrian Liberation Casualties of War
Click on: "saddest maps I have ever studied" for a map of road casualties 2000-2010.

Then look for the area of interest. It's really shocking.

For a map of speed limits

search for:
Pedestrian Liberation Variations in speed limits in urban areas

Food for thought.

There is good evidence why speed limits in urban and suburban streets should be reduced to 20 mph.

Search for:
'Reduced Sensitivity to Visual Looming Inflates the Risk Posed by Speeding Vehicles When Children Try to Cross the Road'
[quote][p][bold]ScaredAmoeba[/bold] wrote: Peter Miller’s excellent visualisation the ITOWorld map of UK road casualties 2000-2010 is here: From Pedestrian Liberation blog: Search for: Pedestrian Liberation Casualties of War[/p][/quote]Click on: "saddest maps I have ever studied" for a map of road casualties 2000-2010. Then look for the area of interest. It's really shocking. For a map of speed limits search for: Pedestrian Liberation Variations in speed limits in urban areas Food for thought. There is good evidence [science] why speed limits in urban and suburban streets should be reduced to 20 mph. Search for: 'Reduced Sensitivity to Visual Looming Inflates the Risk Posed by Speeding Vehicles When Children Try to Cross the Road' ScaredAmoeba
  • Score: 0

9:11am Sat 17 Dec 11

ScaredAmoeba says...

Reduced Sensitivity to Visual Looming Inflates the Risk Posed by Speeding Vehicles When Children Try to Cross the Road'

The need to detect and process looming remains critically important for humans in everyday life. Road traffic statistics confirm that children up to 15 years old are overrepresented in pedestrian casualties. We demonstrate that, for a given pedestrian crossing time, vehicles traveling faster loom less than slower vehicles, which creates a dangerous illusion in which faster vehicles may be perceived as not approaching. Our results from perceptual tests of looming thresholds show strong developmental trends in sensitivity, such that children may not be able to detect vehicles approaching at speeds in excess of 20 mph. This creates a risk of injudicious road crossing in urban settings when traffic speeds are higher than 20 mph. The risk is exacerbated because vehicles moving faster than this speed are more likely to result in pedestrian fatalities.
Reduced Sensitivity to Visual Looming Inflates the Risk Posed by Speeding Vehicles When Children Try to Cross the Road' The need to detect and process looming remains critically important for humans in everyday life. Road traffic statistics confirm that children up to 15 years old are overrepresented in pedestrian casualties. We demonstrate that, for a given pedestrian crossing time, vehicles traveling faster loom less than slower vehicles, which creates a dangerous illusion in which faster vehicles may be perceived as not approaching. Our results from perceptual tests of looming thresholds show strong developmental trends in sensitivity, such that children may not be able to detect vehicles approaching at speeds in excess of 20 mph. This creates a risk of injudicious road crossing in urban settings when traffic speeds are higher than 20 mph. The risk is exacerbated because vehicles moving faster than this speed are more likely to result in pedestrian fatalities. ScaredAmoeba
  • Score: 0

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