"Why we should give Boscombe surf reef time to prove itself"

Bournemouth Echo: Why we should give the surf reef time Why we should give the surf reef time

Over the last few months there has been a good deal of critisism of the Boscombe surf reef and many local residents have expressed an opinion, most of which seem to be based on an incorrect understanding of the reef's capability and potential.

I have written these words in an effort to help the non-surfing community understand what the reef aims to do, and more importantly explain why we haven't seen the perfect barelling waves the local critics seem to be expecting.

Firstly, in response to those who suggested that we had excellent surfing conditions last week and that the reef was not working.

Well, frankly, we did not have anywhere near good conditions last week. Howling onshore winds did indeed produce large waves (reminiscent of a washing machine) but this practically never results in a good surfing wave.

The reef is designed to amplify an existing swell into a steep, fast wedged wave. This will not happen (assuming ASR's design is accurate) until a good solid ground swell appears at the same time as offshore winds. This is the key to the best conditions.

There is no point making accusations about bad design, or the reef being in the wrong place until we see clean, pealing waves breaking towards the end of Boscombe pier with an offshore wind.

I would urge all those suggesting otherwise to be patient and wait. The combination of ground swell with offshores is rare enough on the south coast but as we go into winter it should happen and then we can all make our judgements.

In response to the recent 'white elephant' article, to suggest that the reef is on the wrong side of the pier because the surfers go to the far side is frankly a little naive. An onshore windy wave like the last few days is normally accompanied by a strong current.

Depending on the exact wind direction the pier can act as a shelter and shield the waves from breaking quite so early and messily.

Most of the surfers will select either the right or left of the pier depending on the direction of the current, as no surfer wants to waste all their energy on paddling away from the pier which can get a tad hairy in big onshore waves.

So when you see surfers on the right of the pier more often than not this is due to a current flowing towards Bournemouth, and if they are on the left the current is normally flowing towards Southbourne.

That is not to say that sometimes (normally in calm weather with a good wave period) waves will break best on one particular side of the pier, but in recent weeks chosing a side was almost certainly due to current and tidal conditions.

I have purposely not gone into the science of surfing and forecasting but if you want to understand more I would suggest looking at ASR's website or surfing guidance such as Magicseaweed.

Whilst any local surfer reading this might think it patronising, I very much hope that some of the critical parties out there who have been so eager to dismiss the project might read this and give the reef another chance. Given the right conditions to perform as we all hope it will, it may prove a success for the local businesses and regeneration of Boscombe.

If you would like to follow up-to-date surf conditions please visit my website at www.jellyphish.co.uk.

Comments (33)

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1:33pm Mon 26 Oct 09

Tripod says...

I thought the idea behind a project like this is to bring-in an increase in local trade that more than covers the cost of construction; if the Reef needs very specific weather conditions to be of use, it’s going to be a very long time (if ever) before the (local tax payers) money is recouped.
I thought the idea behind a project like this is to bring-in an increase in local trade that more than covers the cost of construction; if the Reef needs very specific weather conditions to be of use, it’s going to be a very long time (if ever) before the (local tax payers) money is recouped. Tripod

1:37pm Mon 26 Oct 09

inpoole says...

As you stated "The reef is designed to amplify an existing swell into a steep, fast wedged wave. This will not happen (assuming ASR's design is accurate) until a good solid ground swell appears at the same time as offshore winds. This is the key to the best conditions." The thing is Bournemouth & Boscombe never see's a good swell. We simply don't have a decent swell to start with so the result of amplifying nothing is "nothing" Glad I'm not in Bournemouth to be hit with any tax rises needed to pay for this over scheduled, over budget waste of a sand dump. There are bigger waves in my bath-tub!
As you stated "The reef is designed to amplify an existing swell into a steep, fast wedged wave. This will not happen (assuming ASR's design is accurate) until a good solid ground swell appears at the same time as offshore winds. This is the key to the best conditions." The thing is Bournemouth & Boscombe never see's a good swell. We simply don't have a decent swell to start with so the result of amplifying nothing is "nothing" Glad I'm not in Bournemouth to be hit with any tax rises needed to pay for this over scheduled, over budget waste of a sand dump. There are bigger waves in my bath-tub! inpoole

2:30pm Mon 26 Oct 09

Glashen says...

It is good to hear the case for the defence at last. A lot of the criticism has seemed to me to miss the point, was the surf reef the best way to bring about improvement and investment in Boscombe. It is hard to deny the seafront area has improved IMHO beyond recognition. The other much quoted issue it that Boscombe is simply the wrong place to surf, yet there are a great many surfers here now even when the weather conditions have been universally accepted as poor.

It is to be hoped the reef will produce the desired conditions since that should lead to the council keeping their promise that the cost will not fall on the council tax payer.
It is good to hear the case for the defence at last. A lot of the criticism has seemed to me to miss the point, was the surf reef the best way to bring about improvement and investment in Boscombe. It is hard to deny the seafront area has improved IMHO beyond recognition. The other much quoted issue it that Boscombe is simply the wrong place to surf, yet there are a great many surfers here now even when the weather conditions have been universally accepted as poor. It is to be hoped the reef will produce the desired conditions since that should lead to the council keeping their promise that the cost will not fall on the council tax payer. Glashen

3:34pm Mon 26 Oct 09

wonderway says...

2 years late 2million overspend wait for the perfect swell
sorry pre contract statement was
DOUBLE NUMBER OF SURFING DAYS PER YEAR PLUS CLASS 5 WAVE
NOW WE WAIT AND WAIT WHILE ASR COME UPWITH EXCUSES LIKE BETTER MARINE LIFE GOOD FOR FISHERMEN TO FISH ON SAFE OUR BEACH FROM ERROSION WHILE ASR SPEND SPEND SPEND THE 3.3 MILLION POUND THE COUNCIL HAVE GIVEN THEM AND OFF TO INDIAN TO BUILD THE NEXT ONE FROM 2005 BOXING DAY DISASTER FUNDS ....................
............JUST TELL US THE TRUTH WHEN WILL IT WORK
2 years late 2million overspend wait for the perfect swell sorry pre contract statement was DOUBLE NUMBER OF SURFING DAYS PER YEAR PLUS CLASS 5 WAVE NOW WE WAIT AND WAIT WHILE ASR COME UPWITH EXCUSES LIKE BETTER MARINE LIFE GOOD FOR FISHERMEN TO FISH ON SAFE OUR BEACH FROM ERROSION WHILE ASR SPEND SPEND SPEND THE 3.3 MILLION POUND THE COUNCIL HAVE GIVEN THEM AND OFF TO INDIAN TO BUILD THE NEXT ONE FROM 2005 BOXING DAY DISASTER FUNDS .................... ............JUST TELL US THE TRUTH WHEN WILL IT WORK wonderway

3:34pm Mon 26 Oct 09

Peggy Babcock says...

The ideal conditions are rare for the placement of the reef. The area rarely has offshore winds. Most of the time they are southwesterly. Therefore surfers cannot 'plan' a trip to surf the reef - they can only decide on the day if the conditions are correct, and even that assumes the forecast is correct. I therefore cannot see how the reef will increase tourism.

I do however support the re-development of the area - it is much improved.
The ideal conditions are rare for the placement of the reef. The area rarely has offshore winds. Most of the time they are southwesterly. Therefore surfers cannot 'plan' a trip to surf the reef - they can only decide on the day if the conditions are correct, and even that assumes the forecast is correct. I therefore cannot see how the reef will increase tourism. I do however support the re-development of the area - it is much improved. Peggy Babcock

3:51pm Mon 26 Oct 09

[Chris] says...

I thank you David Oliver for your explanation, but even you are some what sceptical in your story "assuming ASR's design is accurate". A number of other authorities on surfing, and marine knowledge have already discussed the facts that the Surf Reef is at the wrong angle, laid the wrong direction, and overall the Bay does not produce what is needed to increase the wave. All in all another Leisure Department flop.
.
With regards to the Boscombe improvements. Again this is farsical. The idea of the improvements was based around the Surf Reef to the value of over £12m. To date only three, (3) pods have been sold, out of some fifty odd pods. Supposedly to recouperate some of the mega pounds of taxpayers money wasted on yet another Leisure Department Flop.
.
One big Belly Flop.
I thank you David Oliver for your explanation, but even you are some what sceptical in your story "assuming ASR's design is accurate". A number of other authorities on surfing, and marine knowledge have already discussed the facts that the Surf Reef is at the wrong angle, laid the wrong direction, and overall the Bay does not produce what is needed to increase the wave. All in all another Leisure Department flop. . With regards to the Boscombe improvements. Again this is farsical. The idea of the improvements was based around the Surf Reef to the value of over £12m. To date only three, (3) pods have been sold, out of some fifty odd pods. Supposedly to recouperate some of the mega pounds of taxpayers money wasted on yet another Leisure Department Flop. . One big Belly Flop. [Chris]

4:04pm Mon 26 Oct 09

Glashen says...

The question of the reef's performance will hopefully be settled by time and the survey being undertaken by Plymouth University. But in the meantime in seems a bit pointless to keep knocking it, if you wish the best for Boscombe.
I would not defend the council's handling of the project which has at times been very poor, however one of the biggest potential gains should be the good publicity when the right conditions arrive and the reef is launched, so I still suggest we wait and see.
The question of the reef's performance will hopefully be settled by time and the survey being undertaken by Plymouth University. But in the meantime in seems a bit pointless to keep knocking it, if you wish the best for Boscombe. I would not defend the council's handling of the project which has at times been very poor, however one of the biggest potential gains should be the good publicity when the right conditions arrive and the reef is launched, so I still suggest we wait and see. Glashen

4:45pm Mon 26 Oct 09

beachhut says...

Now then, lets have the real reason, which some council official let slip recently. The regeration grant was for Boscombe, thats to the east of the pier, not the west of the peir, and not Southbourne. It had to be put where it is to secure some funding, along with regeneration by selling off car parks and over prices beach bunkers. The pile of sand bags is in fact irrelevant it was all about the surrounding infastructure which would be made available if the reef was given the go ahead. It was part of the package, which should have extended right through Boscombe right up to the town centre, but it has run out of cash to finish the programme, and now the main people who pushed it through are jumping ship.
Now then, lets have the real reason, which some council official let slip recently. The regeration grant was for Boscombe, thats to the east of the pier, not the west of the peir, and not Southbourne. It had to be put where it is to secure some funding, along with regeneration by selling off car parks and over prices beach bunkers. The pile of sand bags is in fact irrelevant it was all about the surrounding infastructure which would be made available if the reef was given the go ahead. It was part of the package, which should have extended right through Boscombe right up to the town centre, but it has run out of cash to finish the programme, and now the main people who pushed it through are jumping ship. beachhut

4:45pm Mon 26 Oct 09

rainbowkisses says...

I'm afraid I am one of those who is against the reef. It makes no difference if it does create waves for a few days each year, the simple fact is it has cost US, the rate payers over £3million. The chances of recouping that amount, and more...is zero. The money is gone, nothing we can do about that. But spending that amount on a scheme that will only benefit a few (mostly out of towners) can not be justified. As has been pointed out, the Council have only sold 3 out of 50 odd of their much vaunted pods. The fact is, they are to expensive for what you get. So how will all these surfers be bringing income to the Boscombe area? May be in the pubs or burger outlets? Will they be charged to swim in the sea? Charged by the length of their boards? Where will they be parking? So waves or no waves, we will not be getting our money back. Then again, anybody who believes a word that the council says, deserves to get ripped off. You voted them in, you can vote them out.
I'm afraid I am one of those who is against the reef. It makes no difference if it does create waves for a few days each year, the simple fact is it has cost US, the rate payers over £3million. The chances of recouping that amount, and more...is zero. The money is gone, nothing we can do about that. But spending that amount on a scheme that will only benefit a few (mostly out of towners) can not be justified. As has been pointed out, the Council have only sold 3 out of 50 odd of their much vaunted pods. The fact is, they are to expensive for what you get. So how will all these surfers be bringing income to the Boscombe area? May be in the pubs or burger outlets? Will they be charged to swim in the sea? Charged by the length of their boards? Where will they be parking? So waves or no waves, we will not be getting our money back. Then again, anybody who believes a word that the council says, deserves to get ripped off. You voted them in, you can vote them out. rainbowkisses

5:23pm Mon 26 Oct 09

davidowoah says...

Can it be said any clearer?

The vast majority of funding, if not all, has come from the sale of a car park to Barratt Homes - Not the local taxpayers.

What we have is a regenerated and excellent sea front for the cost. We have a Pier restored, we have the Overstrand restored, we have evidence in local/private investment in the Harvester being externally refurbished and Urban Reef and Sorted Surf shops.

What did we have? Derelict closed pier and pier approach, derelict Overstrand building, run down Neptune bar no sign or reason to be invested in. What did we give up? A large sq meterage of tarmac. You can still see it on some images in Microsoft Earth and Google Earth. Lets face it, look back at the pictures, Honeycombe chine was a large chunck of tarmac, not some nature reserve. I for one salute the council officer that took the money from Baratt Homes. It has paid for most if not all of this. Not the local taxpayers of which I AM ONE! I dont live in nearby Boroughs I am here and paying.

Be proud that something has been achieved, it does not happen very often in Local Govt these days. If the reef is not a huge success the bigger picture certainly is. There were mistakes, but lets not all start crowing and making claims of wasting taxpayers money. Look at the big picture, the tarmac has gone yes, in return a pier and overstrand, toilets, showers, bars etc. The money was certainly not coming from anywhere else, ask the people of Hastings who is paying to restore their pier? NO ONE. Hopefully the regeneration will spread beyond the Christchurch Road, but lets face it the current economical climate has been nightmarish. For the record I have very little regard for ASR and have read their History, but I see the big picture. Be Proud of Boscombe Sea Front, It is now Bournemouth's Leading sea front for facilities and looks great. Love the pier!

Can it be said any clearer? The vast majority of funding, if not all, has come from the sale of a car park to Barratt Homes - Not the local taxpayers. What we have is a regenerated and excellent sea front for the cost. We have a Pier restored, we have the Overstrand restored, we have evidence in local/private investment in the Harvester being externally refurbished and Urban Reef and Sorted Surf shops. What did we have? Derelict closed pier and pier approach, derelict Overstrand building, run down Neptune bar no sign or reason to be invested in. What did we give up? A large sq meterage of tarmac. You can still see it on some images in Microsoft Earth and Google Earth. Lets face it, look back at the pictures, Honeycombe chine was a large chunck of tarmac, not some nature reserve. I for one salute the council officer that took the money from Baratt Homes. It has paid for most if not all of this. Not the local taxpayers of which I AM ONE! I dont live in nearby Boroughs I am here and paying. Be proud that something has been achieved, it does not happen very often in Local Govt these days. If the reef is not a huge success the bigger picture certainly is. There were mistakes, but lets not all start crowing and making claims of wasting taxpayers money. Look at the big picture, the tarmac has gone yes, in return a pier and overstrand, toilets, showers, bars etc. The money was certainly not coming from anywhere else, ask the people of Hastings who is paying to restore their pier? NO ONE. Hopefully the regeneration will spread beyond the Christchurch Road, but lets face it the current economical climate has been nightmarish. For the record I have very little regard for ASR and have read their History, but I see the big picture. Be Proud of Boscombe Sea Front, It is now Bournemouth's Leading sea front for facilities and looks great. Love the pier! davidowoah

6:01pm Mon 26 Oct 09

R1200RT says...

Lend me those rose tinted specs davidowoah
Lend me those rose tinted specs davidowoah R1200RT

6:12pm Mon 26 Oct 09

rainbowkisses says...

About that pier David. Just what use is it? There is nothing on it, no seats (unless you pay to sit) Brings in no revenue. Was closed during the Air Show etc. Barrets would have build the flats there, reef or no reef. The car park money (which belonged to the tax payers) could have been used to build something that would benefit the people of Bournemouth, not the tourists. The Overstand does look better I agree, but with pods that locals don't want (or afford?) most of which are still empty. How much money will those surf shops make if the reef turns out to be a flop? The restaurants are a good idea and look busy when I walk past. The question is though, what have they got to do with the reef? Should the tax payers of Bournemouth be putting money up, for what is a private enterpirse? As much as I agree you have the right to your opinions, you have to accept that those of us who think it was a waste of our money, have the same right.
About that pier David. Just what use is it? There is nothing on it, no seats (unless you pay to sit) Brings in no revenue. Was closed during the Air Show etc. Barrets would have build the flats there, reef or no reef. The car park money (which belonged to the tax payers) could have been used to build something that would benefit the people of Bournemouth, not the tourists. The Overstand does look better I agree, but with pods that locals don't want (or afford?) most of which are still empty. How much money will those surf shops make if the reef turns out to be a flop? The restaurants are a good idea and look busy when I walk past. The question is though, what have they got to do with the reef? Should the tax payers of Bournemouth be putting money up, for what is a private enterpirse? As much as I agree you have the right to your opinions, you have to accept that those of us who think it was a waste of our money, have the same right. rainbowkisses

6:13pm Mon 26 Oct 09

[Chris] says...

davidowoah wrote:
Can it be said any clearer?

The vast majority of funding, if not all, has come from the sale of a car park to Barratt Homes - Not the local taxpayers.

What we have is a regenerated and excellent sea front for the cost. We have a Pier restored, we have the Overstrand restored, we have evidence in local/private investment in the Harvester being externally refurbished and Urban Reef and Sorted Surf shops.

What did we have? Derelict closed pier and pier approach, derelict Overstrand building, run down Neptune bar no sign or reason to be invested in. What did we give up? A large sq meterage of tarmac. You can still see it on some images in Microsoft Earth and Google Earth. Lets face it, look back at the pictures, Honeycombe chine was a large chunck of tarmac, not some nature reserve. I for one salute the council officer that took the money from Baratt Homes. It has paid for most if not all of this. Not the local taxpayers of which I AM ONE! I dont live in nearby Boroughs I am here and paying.

Be proud that something has been achieved, it does not happen very often in Local Govt these days. If the reef is not a huge success the bigger picture certainly is. There were mistakes, but lets not all start crowing and making claims of wasting taxpayers money. Look at the big picture, the tarmac has gone yes, in return a pier and overstrand, toilets, showers, bars etc. The money was certainly not coming from anywhere else, ask the people of Hastings who is paying to restore their pier? NO ONE. Hopefully the regeneration will spread beyond the Christchurch Road, but lets face it the current economical climate has been nightmarish. For the record I have very little regard for ASR and have read their History, but I see the big picture. Be Proud of Boscombe Sea Front, It is now Bournemouth's Leading sea front for facilities and looks great. Love the pier!

I think you will find that the Car Park only raised around half of the overall total cost (over spend). This is why there is emphasis on selling the pods. One needs to see the overall picture and not what they just want to see and with open eyes. £12.1m is a far cry from something like £6.3m which was around the initial costings. Rose tinted glasses, more like blinkered.
[quote][p][bold]davidowoah[/bold] wrote: Can it be said any clearer? The vast majority of funding, if not all, has come from the sale of a car park to Barratt Homes - Not the local taxpayers. What we have is a regenerated and excellent sea front for the cost. We have a Pier restored, we have the Overstrand restored, we have evidence in local/private investment in the Harvester being externally refurbished and Urban Reef and Sorted Surf shops. What did we have? Derelict closed pier and pier approach, derelict Overstrand building, run down Neptune bar no sign or reason to be invested in. What did we give up? A large sq meterage of tarmac. You can still see it on some images in Microsoft Earth and Google Earth. Lets face it, look back at the pictures, Honeycombe chine was a large chunck of tarmac, not some nature reserve. I for one salute the council officer that took the money from Baratt Homes. It has paid for most if not all of this. Not the local taxpayers of which I AM ONE! I dont live in nearby Boroughs I am here and paying. Be proud that something has been achieved, it does not happen very often in Local Govt these days. If the reef is not a huge success the bigger picture certainly is. There were mistakes, but lets not all start crowing and making claims of wasting taxpayers money. Look at the big picture, the tarmac has gone yes, in return a pier and overstrand, toilets, showers, bars etc. The money was certainly not coming from anywhere else, ask the people of Hastings who is paying to restore their pier? NO ONE. Hopefully the regeneration will spread beyond the Christchurch Road, but lets face it the current economical climate has been nightmarish. For the record I have very little regard for ASR and have read their History, but I see the big picture. Be Proud of Boscombe Sea Front, It is now Bournemouth's Leading sea front for facilities and looks great. Love the pier! [/p][/quote]I think you will find that the Car Park only raised around half of the overall total cost (over spend). This is why there is emphasis on selling the pods. One needs to see the overall picture and not what they just want to see and with open eyes. £12.1m is a far cry from something like £6.3m which was around the initial costings. Rose tinted glasses, more like blinkered. [Chris]

7:20pm Mon 26 Oct 09

leonabright says...

Why not hold your hands up. We all know whatever the swell enhancement or whatever you call it. This was a MASSIVE WASTE OF OUR MONEY. The timing couldn't be worse with a full on recession but as we see crucial services cut, Three million plus quid for gods sake and an ugly block of flats that has broken planning permission and ruined the view.

Those responsible owe a duty to this town, maybe we can demand it back from their gold plated pensions? Or make these guys buy up the overpriced and unsold beach huts/pods/sheds.
Why not hold your hands up. We all know whatever the swell enhancement or whatever you call it. This was a MASSIVE WASTE OF OUR MONEY. The timing couldn't be worse with a full on recession but as we see crucial services cut, Three million plus quid for gods sake and an ugly block of flats that has broken planning permission and ruined the view. Those responsible owe a duty to this town, maybe we can demand it back from their gold plated pensions? Or make these guys buy up the overpriced and unsold beach huts/pods/sheds. leonabright

10:07pm Mon 26 Oct 09

reefskeptic says...

For what gain does the reef need more time? It is there, it is as the surfers agreed and wanted it to be and it will be as the weather and ocean circumstances allow it to be. So what does it have to prove to who? The moneys spent and the surfers have no reason to complain, they have everything that they asked for and more. So who are these special interest groups&individuals that are speaking out? It seems that we have community who may wish the money were differently spent, we may have commerce who wish to create, maintain and perpetuate an illusion that all is well and of course the stewards of the entire process. The council whose job it was to attempt to make the best out of a sorry state. Oh theres an important sub-group here , it seems a number of the surfers are not impressed with the results thus far. The last group are the most vocal as they half the reason for the reef being there. The first half is to protect the foreshore in front of the cash cow that is supposed to pay for it all. The surfing was always known to be minimal. An attempt to add value to a protection reef by adding surfing amenity has been , in everyones view -oversold. A reef that turrns a 1m wave into a 2m breaking wave for that height for 75 to 100 meters is now looking like a wedge at the peak of the reef. Is the selected reef design 21 falacious and erroneous in its ability to be created ,real and performing?. Others, the users and the designers can answer that. I notice they have been asked? Also can someone tell me why the reef has been built bottom layer last and the top layer first? Is this the reason that the promised results of reef21 will not happen ? I hope that everyone can appreciate my attempt at dissecting the issues. Surfing is only one and those with fervour for surfing could be expected to be on the shore everyday "for a paddle of confidence " out to the reef and back. Show your support for the surfing reef that way. you dont need to use words as your reef has been built -what more do you want now than for you to use your allocated oxygen in the water. ASR as you promised -answers please? oh and me -I'm a skeptic of everything because thats the way i learn the truth. Just ask me about global warming ?
For what gain does the reef need more time? It is there, it is as the surfers agreed and wanted it to be and it will be as the weather and ocean circumstances allow it to be. So what does it have to prove to who? The moneys spent and the surfers have no reason to complain, they have everything that they asked for and more. So who are these special interest groups&individuals that are speaking out? It seems that we have community who may wish the money were differently spent, we may have commerce who wish to create, maintain and perpetuate an illusion that all is well and of course the stewards of the entire process. The council whose job it was to attempt to make the best out of a sorry state. Oh theres an important sub-group here , it seems a number of the surfers are not impressed with the results thus far. The last group are the most vocal as they half the reason for the reef being there. The first half is to protect the foreshore in front of the cash cow that is supposed to pay for it all. The surfing was always known to be minimal. An attempt to add value to a protection reef by adding surfing amenity has been , in everyones view -oversold. A reef that turrns a 1m wave into a 2m breaking wave for that height for 75 to 100 meters is now looking like a wedge at the peak of the reef. Is the selected reef design 21 falacious and erroneous in its ability to be created ,real and performing?. Others, the users and the designers can answer that. I notice they have been asked? Also can someone tell me why the reef has been built bottom layer last and the top layer first? Is this the reason that the promised results of reef21 will not happen ? I hope that everyone can appreciate my attempt at dissecting the issues. Surfing is only one and those with fervour for surfing could be expected to be on the shore everyday "for a paddle of confidence " out to the reef and back. Show your support for the surfing reef that way. you dont need to use words as your reef has been built -what more do you want now than for you to use your allocated oxygen in the water. ASR as you promised -answers please? oh and me -I'm a skeptic of everything because thats the way i learn the truth. Just ask me about global warming ? reefskeptic

7:25am Tue 27 Oct 09

The-Bleeding-Obvious says...

In a years time it will be interesting to know just how many days with 'satisfactory conditions' there will have been in its first 12 months. Nodoubt you will be able to count them on one hand! A marina would have done more for the location.
In a years time it will be interesting to know just how many days with 'satisfactory conditions' there will have been in its first 12 months. Nodoubt you will be able to count them on one hand! A marina would have done more for the location. The-Bleeding-Obvious

8:59am Tue 27 Oct 09

PTBarnum says...

Magicseaweeds swell animations show a splodge of swell comming this way sunday so sunday will be "with swell". Can someone race out to meet it and ask it to conform to specifications so that the reef may be opened. The builders are coming back to town to greet and meet and give individual inteviews to the press and sundry. what a day it will be!
Magicseaweeds swell animations show a splodge of swell comming this way sunday so sunday will be "with swell". Can someone race out to meet it and ask it to conform to specifications so that the reef may be opened. The builders are coming back to town to greet and meet and give individual inteviews to the press and sundry. what a day it will be! PTBarnum

9:54am Tue 27 Oct 09

time nor Tide says...

"A marina would have done more for the location."
This is a good suggestion and one that may well accomadate surfing on seawalls edges. marina design and construction is a milk run for the marina industry -adding surfing to its edges would be nothing new. It may yet be considered a "fall back' for selling the units and pods? Construction contracts for marinas are also well established for whats expected and whats paid for . (no experimentation required) no deliver -no pay. I'm thinking new designers and contractors though? Irrefutable sucessfull Track record essential for applicants. (isnt that part of law for government contracts with public money?)
"A marina would have done more for the location." This is a good suggestion and one that may well accomadate surfing on seawalls edges. marina design and construction is a milk run for the marina industry -adding surfing to its edges would be nothing new. It may yet be considered a "fall back' for selling the units and pods? Construction contracts for marinas are also well established for whats expected and whats paid for . (no experimentation required) no deliver -no pay. I'm thinking new designers and contractors though? Irrefutable sucessfull Track record essential for applicants. (isnt that part of law for government contracts with public money?) time nor Tide

11:24am Tue 27 Oct 09

upyourpipe says...

I would love to see massive high waves comin in, not for the surfers, but to wash this load of rubbish away
I would love to see massive high waves comin in, not for the surfers, but to wash this load of rubbish away upyourpipe

11:51am Tue 27 Oct 09

open mind says...

In reply to Rainbowkisses, the Pier has had artists selling their work on Sundays and is also popular with fishermen all year round. Next year should see more events put on by the pier or on it.
In reply to Rainbowkisses, the Pier has had artists selling their work on Sundays and is also popular with fishermen all year round. Next year should see more events put on by the pier or on it. open mind

2:49pm Tue 27 Oct 09

asj says...

what happened to half of the pier ? was it de-restored!
what happened to half of the pier ? was it de-restored! asj

3:55pm Tue 27 Oct 09

jeebuscripes says...

Whilst waiting for the perfect waves why not consider using the top of the IMAX as a viewing platform. The interior could be used as a 3d cinema.
Whilst waiting for the perfect waves why not consider using the top of the IMAX as a viewing platform. The interior could be used as a 3d cinema. jeebuscripes

8:40pm Wed 28 Oct 09

PTBarnum says...

jeebuscripes wrote:
Whilst waiting for the perfect waves why not consider using the top of the IMAX as a viewing platform. The interior could be used as a 3d cinema.
can that be altered in time for sundays waves?

.

The second real chance for the "three ring circus' is then.

.

I have applied to be the ringmister but i suspect Ms Swartz will be the dominant person on the day . (if the waves arrive)

.

They (the waves) have been invited and are showing their prescence on magicseaweed , if you look they have initialed their rsvp in the shape of a wave on the animation for sunday.

.

whoever started this clear point by point paragraph format -i like it ,They are hired!! Nose and Suit will be provided
[quote][p][bold]jeebuscripes[/bold] wrote: Whilst waiting for the perfect waves why not consider using the top of the IMAX as a viewing platform. The interior could be used as a 3d cinema. [/p][/quote]can that be altered in time for sundays waves? . The second real chance for the "three ring circus' is then. . I have applied to be the ringmister but i suspect Ms Swartz will be the dominant person on the day . (if the waves arrive) . They (the waves) have been invited and are showing their prescence on magicseaweed , if you look they have initialed their rsvp in the shape of a wave on the animation for sunday. . whoever started this clear point by point paragraph format -i like it ,They are hired!! Nose and Suit will be provided PTBarnum

11:31am Fri 30 Oct 09

time nor Tide says...

www.stuff.co.nz search the site for opanake reef will find the reef grief story - now our surfing wreath?

Construction of the reef began in March 2006 with placement of bag anchors. It has been delayed by equipment problems and rough weather. the entire budget was spent in putting 10% of the bags in.


18 April 2008
The reef, which was the first to be finished in New Zealand, just needed a little fine-tuning, Reef Trust acting chairman Neil Walker said.

18/04/2008

"It is kind of experimental in the filling of the bags. This year because they knew what they are doing and they've got the right equipment the bags have just gone in."
The reef was already showing signs of its potential.

09/02/2009
Mr Lusk said: "ASR acknowledge they did get some things wrong which resulted in only four bags being filled in the first two years and that delay has cost us money. ASR were contracted to secure 28 bags to the seabed and fill them with sand. The end sections of those bags remain to be filled to create the shape that causes a wave. It's not certain when the work will be done at this stage but they have agreed to proceed.

15/04/2009
"Surf reef representatives say they will be back in Opunake this week to do an underwater inspection of what some locals are now calling the "surf grief".
But the Raglan-based designer and contractor, ASR Ltd, is keeping its options open about when the reef might be completed and operational."
.

04/07/2009
Containers, industrial equipment and piles of sand are ruining the view at the northern headland spot, frustrated locals say and they want it cleaned up.

The unsightly equipment is part of the town's artificial reef construction, which stalled more than a year ago.
The family say the lookout is just another example of the controversy and hold-ups Opunake has dealt with over the reef issue.

"David Lusk said they'll (ASR Ltd) will be coming back but there are half-finished reefs around the world from Wales to India. I don't think they'll be coming back to Opunake.

"We could be waiting forever," they said.

.
11/09/2009
Although ASR has "purchased" a floating pipeline and sand pumping gear from the trust, Dr Mead used the term "circus" when referring to the complex setting up and dismantling of that operation.

He says a tug-towed barge carrying a hydraulic excavator might be the best method to complete the job, instead of pumping sand out from shore. The digger could excavate from the seabed, fill the bags and lower them into place. But it would depend on whether a further consent to excavate was required.
"We did the survey using depth sounder, GPS, video cameras and tape measures. We have gaps to fill between the three sections of the reef and the height has to be raised to a uniform level to make the wave curl."
Yesterday Dr Mead said: "Boscombe will be our showpiece reef. People are surfing that reef now, but it will perform better in winter when the big swells come in.

"The Bournemouth Borough Council are partnering up with us to take the technology to the European Union. The more EU links they get, the bigger grants they can apply for, and for us it means more reef projects."


Although ASR has "purchased" a floating pipeline and sand pumping gear from the trust, Dr Mead used the term "circus" when referring to the complex setting up and dismantling of that operation.


www.stuff.co.nz search the site for opanake reef will find the reef grief story - now our surfing wreath?
www.stuff.co.nz search the site for opanake reef will find the reef grief story - now our surfing wreath? Construction of the reef began in March 2006 with placement of bag anchors. It has been delayed by equipment problems and rough weather. the entire budget was spent in putting 10% of the bags in. 18 April 2008 The reef, which was the first to be finished in New Zealand, just needed a little fine-tuning, Reef Trust acting chairman Neil Walker said. 18/04/2008 "It is kind of experimental in the filling of the bags. This year because they knew what they are doing and they've got the right equipment the bags have just gone in." The reef was already showing signs of its potential. 09/02/2009 Mr Lusk said: "ASR acknowledge they did get some things wrong which resulted in only four bags being filled in the first two years and that delay has cost us money. ASR were contracted to secure 28 bags to the seabed and fill them with sand. The end sections of those bags remain to be filled to create the shape that causes a wave. It's not certain when the work will be done at this stage but they have agreed to proceed. 15/04/2009 "Surf reef representatives say they will be back in Opunake this week to do an underwater inspection of what some locals are now calling the "surf grief". But the Raglan-based designer and contractor, ASR Ltd, is keeping its options open about when the reef might be completed and operational." . 04/07/2009 Containers, industrial equipment and piles of sand are ruining the view at the northern headland spot, frustrated locals say and they want it cleaned up. The unsightly equipment is part of the town's artificial reef construction, which stalled more than a year ago. The family say the lookout is just another example of the controversy and hold-ups Opunake has dealt with over the reef issue. "David Lusk said they'll (ASR Ltd) will be coming back but there are half-finished reefs around the world from Wales to India. I don't think they'll be coming back to Opunake. "We could be waiting forever," they said. . 11/09/2009 Although ASR has "purchased" a floating pipeline and sand pumping gear from the trust, Dr Mead used the term "circus" when referring to the complex setting up and dismantling of that operation. He says a tug-towed barge carrying a hydraulic excavator might be the best method to complete the job, instead of pumping sand out from shore. The digger could excavate from the seabed, fill the bags and lower them into place. But it would depend on whether a further consent to excavate was required. "We did the survey using depth sounder, GPS, video cameras and tape measures. We have gaps to fill between the three sections of the reef and the height has to be raised to a uniform level to make the wave curl." Yesterday Dr Mead said: "Boscombe will be our showpiece reef. People are surfing that reef now, but it will perform better in winter when the big swells come in. "The Bournemouth Borough Council are partnering up with us to take the technology to the European Union. The more EU links they get, the bigger grants they can apply for, and for us it means more reef projects." Although ASR has "purchased" a floating pipeline and sand pumping gear from the trust, Dr Mead used the term "circus" when referring to the complex setting up and dismantling of that operation. www.stuff.co.nz search the site for opanake reef will find the reef grief story - now our surfing wreath? time nor Tide

12:39pm Fri 30 Oct 09

freemasonwilly says...

Bournemouth Councils very own 'weapons of mass destruction' lie/exaggeration/con
. Next they will be trying to move the goalposts again by claiming it was all about making the area nicer or some such tosh.
Bournemouth Councils very own 'weapons of mass destruction' lie/exaggeration/con . Next they will be trying to move the goalposts again by claiming it was all about making the area nicer or some such tosh. freemasonwilly

1:09pm Fri 30 Oct 09

time nor Tide says...

:) i sort of got that idea myself -but hey we might be wrong? who are we when compared to the boffins?
:) i sort of got that idea myself -but hey we might be wrong? who are we when compared to the boffins? time nor Tide

1:53pm Fri 30 Oct 09

time nor Tide says...

wheres bob49 now that we need him? thats what hes been saying for years now! do you like the "fine tuning bit?
wheres bob49 now that we need him? thats what hes been saying for years now! do you like the "fine tuning bit? time nor Tide

5:26pm Fri 30 Oct 09

Wimbourneflyer says...

Why Bournemouth spent millions of pounds on something just to please a few VW camper van-driving 'dudes' with long hair is beyond me. There must be more crown-green bowling enthusiasts on the south coast then surfers and you would never see the council waste millions on a crown green bowling stadium, would you. what a joke
Why Bournemouth spent millions of pounds on something just to please a few VW camper van-driving 'dudes' with long hair is beyond me. There must be more crown-green bowling enthusiasts on the south coast then surfers and you would never see the council waste millions on a crown green bowling stadium, would you. what a joke Wimbourneflyer

11:18pm Fri 30 Oct 09

time nor Tide says...

They were convinced by slick marketing and some community pressure that the strategy was a certainty.

Funny enough everyone knows that most commonsense fact thing about the weather and the ocean is that it is lifes greatest uncertainty.
.
Empires and kings ransoms have been lost due to its uncertainty and here we have an entire towns future attraction being gambled on ... the weather and its effect on the ocean.
.
Thats not unique as so does tourism everywhere else in one or the other. But saying that the very small waves that bournemouth consistantly gets is totally at odds with the large offshore reef. (if it works when conditions are purfict)

.
That seems to be obvious to anybody by where daily surfing is consistantly happening. We are past two months into the surfing season (magicseaweed.com)

.
For fun waikiki type surfing learning experiences Bournemouth might be perfect. It would not be anywhere near the expense for many small gizmos nearer the shore to create those conditions when all the small waves are around. (1000 more times than when the reef might have the right sorted conditions?)

I think the wrong product has been purchased -but that seems to becoming clear to everybody in an overwhelming way.

If you tell a Bentley (sic) salesman you are thinking about buying a car - he will obviously sell you a optioned up Bentley.

"stung"


The options can double the price 'once you are on the hook?"

.
So yes there is no option except wait (and prepare) , but the best that may happen is what others and I am saying (as above)

.

I am getting the feeling that even a twice in a year ( unlikely) perfect reef wave may be an unacceptable outcome.
.
They were convinced by slick marketing and some community pressure that the strategy was a certainty. Funny enough everyone knows that most commonsense fact thing about the weather and the ocean is that it is lifes greatest uncertainty. . Empires and kings ransoms have been lost due to its uncertainty and here we have an entire towns future attraction being gambled on ... the weather and its effect on the ocean. . Thats not unique as so does tourism everywhere else in one or the other. But saying that the very small waves that bournemouth consistantly gets is totally at odds with the large offshore reef. (if it works when conditions are purfict) . That seems to be obvious to anybody by where daily surfing is consistantly happening. We are past two months into the surfing season (magicseaweed.com) . For fun waikiki type surfing learning experiences Bournemouth might be perfect. It would not be anywhere near the expense for many small gizmos nearer the shore to create those conditions when all the small waves are around. (1000 more times than when the reef might have the right sorted conditions?) I think the wrong product has been purchased -but that seems to becoming clear to everybody in an overwhelming way. If you tell a Bentley (sic) salesman you are thinking about buying a car - he will obviously sell you a optioned up Bentley. "stung" The options can double the price 'once you are on the hook?" . So yes there is no option except wait (and prepare) , but the best that may happen is what others and I am saying (as above) . I am getting the feeling that even a twice in a year ( unlikely) perfect reef wave may be an unacceptable outcome. . time nor Tide

9:53am Sat 31 Oct 09

poolebabe says...

At least the council are trying to do something to an area that has been neglected and under used. Boscome Beach is a nice beach and with the air festival becoming a major event, it makes sense to make each and every section of the beach as good as each other with different things on offer. A lot of money has gone into doing up Boscome, and I think it has helped to put it on the map. Whether the surf reef turns out to be a white elephant or not, people are talking about Boscome and more people will be attracted to the area. I think people should be a little less critical. Lets see how much more tourism the whole rejuvination project brings in first.
At least the council are trying to do something to an area that has been neglected and under used. Boscome Beach is a nice beach and with the air festival becoming a major event, it makes sense to make each and every section of the beach as good as each other with different things on offer. A lot of money has gone into doing up Boscome, and I think it has helped to put it on the map. Whether the surf reef turns out to be a white elephant or not, people are talking about Boscome and more people will be attracted to the area. I think people should be a little less critical. Lets see how much more tourism the whole rejuvination project brings in first. poolebabe

10:58am Sat 31 Oct 09

time nor Tide says...

yes poolebabe I agree, but lessons have to be learned and the surfing should still be improved.

If fact the need is there now more than ever to realistically improve the surfing without great expense. It has already cost to much for too little gain -but it has been a very expensive way to promote -if it fails as a usefull asset it must be replaced with something that

1. is not expensive
.
2. is close to shore
.
3.works well in small waves
.
4.prevents erosion on a small scale
.
5 is easily mutiplied for extra capacity along the shore
.
6. emulates the natural action of well formed sandbanks
.
7. doesnt not need foreigners to do
.
8. can be easily maintained without aliens from abroad getting involved
.
9. is not a ben hur production putting the entire town on a rolla coaster ride of false expectations.

.
10. has truth of product as a cornerstone of small scale trials without any fanfare but just small scale achievement as its goals

there must be some Barnes Wallaces left around still?

I dont think we need anyone from anywhere else to do that. If fact the less high cost commercial acedemics involved the the better -the lessons have been already been learnt at too great expense.

I think the alien docs have done their dash - they are not a pinch on B.Wallace!
yes poolebabe I agree, but lessons have to be learned and the surfing should still be improved. If fact the need is there now more than ever to realistically improve the surfing without great expense. It has already cost to much for too little gain -but it has been a very expensive way to promote -if it fails as a usefull asset it must be replaced with something that 1. is not expensive . 2. is close to shore . 3.works well in small waves . 4.prevents erosion on a small scale . 5 is easily mutiplied for extra capacity along the shore . 6. emulates the natural action of well formed sandbanks . 7. doesnt not need foreigners to do . 8. can be easily maintained without aliens from abroad getting involved . 9. is not a ben hur production putting the entire town on a rolla coaster ride of false expectations. . 10. has truth of product as a cornerstone of small scale trials without any fanfare but just small scale achievement as its goals there must be some Barnes Wallaces left around still? I dont think we need anyone from anywhere else to do that. If fact the less high cost commercial acedemics involved the the better -the lessons have been already been learnt at too great expense. I think the alien docs have done their dash - they are not a pinch on B.Wallace! time nor Tide

6:35pm Mon 2 Nov 09

WIGGINSv says...

davidowoah wrote:
Can it be said any clearer? The vast majority of funding, if not all, has come from the sale of a car park to Barratt Homes - Not the local taxpayers. What we have is a regenerated and excellent sea front for the cost. We have a Pier restored, we have the Overstrand restored, we have evidence in local/private investment in the Harvester being externally refurbished and Urban Reef and Sorted Surf shops. What did we have? Derelict closed pier and pier approach, derelict Overstrand building, run down Neptune bar no sign or reason to be invested in. What did we give up? A large sq meterage of tarmac. You can still see it on some images in Microsoft Earth and Google Earth. Lets face it, look back at the pictures, Honeycombe chine was a large chunck of tarmac, not some nature reserve. I for one salute the council officer that took the money from Baratt Homes. It has paid for most if not all of this. Not the local taxpayers of which I AM ONE! I dont live in nearby Boroughs I am here and paying. Be proud that something has been achieved, it does not happen very often in Local Govt these days. If the reef is not a huge success the bigger picture certainly is. There were mistakes, but lets not all start crowing and making claims of wasting taxpayers money. Look at the big picture, the tarmac has gone yes, in return a pier and overstrand, toilets, showers, bars etc. The money was certainly not coming from anywhere else, ask the people of Hastings who is paying to restore their pier? NO ONE. Hopefully the regeneration will spread beyond the Christchurch Road, but lets face it the current economical climate has been nightmarish. For the record I have very little regard for ASR and have read their History, but I see the big picture. Be Proud of Boscombe Sea Front, It is now Bournemouth's Leading sea front for facilities and looks great. Love the pier!
This whole area - beach chalets, pier, has been neglected by the council for decades. No doubt with grandiose plans such as this in the pipeline.
Why couldn't they have have tarted up the area for the local beach users and holidaymakers years ago? It would have been less expensive. However when you are wasting other peoples money who gives a ****.
[quote][p][bold]davidowoah[/bold] wrote: Can it be said any clearer? The vast majority of funding, if not all, has come from the sale of a car park to Barratt Homes - Not the local taxpayers. What we have is a regenerated and excellent sea front for the cost. We have a Pier restored, we have the Overstrand restored, we have evidence in local/private investment in the Harvester being externally refurbished and Urban Reef and Sorted Surf shops. What did we have? Derelict closed pier and pier approach, derelict Overstrand building, run down Neptune bar no sign or reason to be invested in. What did we give up? A large sq meterage of tarmac. You can still see it on some images in Microsoft Earth and Google Earth. Lets face it, look back at the pictures, Honeycombe chine was a large chunck of tarmac, not some nature reserve. I for one salute the council officer that took the money from Baratt Homes. It has paid for most if not all of this. Not the local taxpayers of which I AM ONE! I dont live in nearby Boroughs I am here and paying. Be proud that something has been achieved, it does not happen very often in Local Govt these days. If the reef is not a huge success the bigger picture certainly is. There were mistakes, but lets not all start crowing and making claims of wasting taxpayers money. Look at the big picture, the tarmac has gone yes, in return a pier and overstrand, toilets, showers, bars etc. The money was certainly not coming from anywhere else, ask the people of Hastings who is paying to restore their pier? NO ONE. Hopefully the regeneration will spread beyond the Christchurch Road, but lets face it the current economical climate has been nightmarish. For the record I have very little regard for ASR and have read their History, but I see the big picture. Be Proud of Boscombe Sea Front, It is now Bournemouth's Leading sea front for facilities and looks great. Love the pier! [/p][/quote]This whole area - beach chalets, pier, has been neglected by the council for decades. No doubt with grandiose plans such as this in the pipeline. Why couldn't they have have tarted up the area for the local beach users and holidaymakers years ago? It would have been less expensive. However when you are wasting other peoples money who gives a ****. WIGGINSv

6:35am Wed 4 Nov 09

time nor Tide says...

http://www.youtube.c
om/watch?v=I32YYoH2I
g0&feature=related

Can someone confirm that the bournemouth reef modelling as shown in the tank test is how the reef is breaking now?

I have some difficulty relating that video to what is actually happening?

http://www.youtube.c
om/watch?v=I32YYoH2I
g0&feature=related

the boogie boarders are having fun and thats good! But if the reef waves are not what are suppossed to be - when the reef be fixed?
http://www.youtube.c om/watch?v=I32YYoH2I g0&feature=related Can someone confirm that the bournemouth reef modelling as shown in the tank test is how the reef is breaking now? I have some difficulty relating that video to what is actually happening? http://www.youtube.c om/watch?v=I32YYoH2I g0&feature=related the boogie boarders are having fun and thats good! But if the reef waves are not what are suppossed to be - when the reef be fixed? time nor Tide

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