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ARE THEY WORTH £100,000?
6:39am Friday 28th March 2008
Comments (83)
TOP council bosses have been challenged to defend their wages as the contents of their pay packets are made public.
Following the furore over councillors' and MPs' allowances, the spotlight has fallen council chief executives.
Figures compiled by the TaxPayers' Alliance show the wages and benefits of eight local council officers - four chief executives, a deputy chief executive and three directors - add up to almost £1million a year.
David Jenkins, chief executive of Dorset County Council, is the highest paid council officer in the county, earning £158,096 in 2006/07.
His deputy, Elaine Taylor, earned £119,773, director Steve Pitt £110,976, director Miles Butler £114,419 and director Stephen Prewitt £110,749.
At Bournemouth, Poole and New Forest councils, only the chief executives earn more than £100,000 a year. Bournemouth's chief executive, Pam Donnellan, saw her salary rise by 11.7 per cent to £121,205 in 2006/07 and Poole's chief executive, John McBride, enjoyed an increase of 5.3 per cent to £112,242.
The only chief executive not to receive an above-inflation pay rise was Dave Yates, the head of New Forest council, whose salary dropped by 8.8 per cent to £115,487.
No one at Christchurch, East Dorset, North Dorset or Purbeck councils earned £100,000 in 2006/07.
David Clutterbuck, chair of East Cliff and Town Centre Residents'association and a former Bournemouth councillor, said: "You have to remember it's not just high salaries we're talking about but pensions as well. When I was on the council, we often put taxpayers' money into the pension fund to top it up. A colossal amount of council tax is spent on salaries and pensions."
Ken Pottle, chairman of Southern Poole Chairmen's Liaison Group, said: "Officers' pay should reflect their sucess in the job."
Angus Campbell, leader of Dorset County Council, said a management restructure in 2006/07 reduced the number of bosses and saved £500,000 a year. He said salaries were decided by members, looking at national guidance and local salaries. and Dorset's chief executive salary was below the average paid by other county councils.
He said: "We pay the necessary level to attract and retain suitable candidates in a very competitive market.
Colin Hague, head of personnel and training at the Poole council, said: "The people who earn these salaries are responsible for ensuring millions of pounds of taxpayers' money is spent wisely."
Your Say YourBournemouth Echo
anna, Poole says...
8:08am Fri 28 Mar 08
LauraM, Bournemouth says...
8:48am Fri 28 Mar 08
Ashley, Verwood says...
8:56am Fri 28 Mar 08
You compare these salaries with relevent positions in the public or private industriues and it is pretty good value for money.
To become a chief exec in the first place takes lots of years of hard work (and also being in with the right people I'm afraid) but it is not given on a plate.
So the echo and a few other posters are implying they think it is too much - well what figures do you think is suitable then?
fedupwithjobsworths, Moordown says...
9:16am Fri 28 Mar 08
LG Wage scales are set nationally its just a matter of putting up Council Tax
LG Pension Deficits are not a problem put up Council Tax
LG Staffing Levels also no problem, get Council Officers to Gold Plate Government directives, employ as many extra people as they like, the Council Taxpayer will be forced to cough up the dough.
A private company has to innovate cost effective products and compete effectively or go bust, Local Authorities have a captive customer base who have no choice - so can be milked dry.
The result of this is clear for all to see, year on year above inflation Council Tax rises, year on year increases in staffing levels, year on year cuts in front line services and overpaid un-elected un-accountable Council Officers in jobs for life.
The CEO of a Council has at best 25% only of the responsibilities of a private sector counterpart a wage of £40K should be more than adequate!
Erica Monk, Australia says...
9:26am Fri 28 Mar 08
Richard, Bournemouth says...
9:43am Fri 28 Mar 08
Go and offer yourself as Chief Exec to Bmth Council for £40k pa and let's see how you get on.
fedupwithjobsworths, Moordown says...
10:24am Fri 28 Mar 08
Richard wrote:It wouldnt be challenging enough :-)
fedupwithjobsworths Go and offer yourself as Chief Exec to Bmth Council for £40k pa and let's see how you get on.
John, Poole says...
11:16am Fri 28 Mar 08
fedupwithjobsworths wrote:Well, if you are like the Council Members, you could do the Chief Exec's job and still keep up your main job as commentator on this site (which is, albeit, sadly not paid for at all, never mind at the rate of an Echo Reporter!)
Richard wrote: fedupwithjobsworths Go and offer yourself as Chief Exec to Bmth Council for £40k pa and let's see how you get on.It wouldnt be challenging enough :-)
derek, dorset says...
11:52am Fri 28 Mar 08
They pay what they want , they see the public as a big wallet to be emptied .
If they where in the real world then they would be accountable and sackable .
And of course , people in the real world have a choice , if they see bad service they move to another supplier.
HAL101, Bournemouth says...
12:00pm Fri 28 Mar 08
LauraM wrote:Market forces and the State councils
Ever heard of such a thing called 'market forces', or supply & demand? These people manage millions of pounds and what they do affects each of us every day - quite a responsibiltiy I'd say, and one that would be much more highly rewarded in the private sector. Yes, it's alot of money, I'm not disputing that, but let's take a look at the job they actually have to do before all jumping on the bandwagon. Got to deal with all the councellors every day I expect for a start. Don't think I'd fancy that, even for £100k+.
You have raised a pertinent point. In the open market the council would have to sell it's services. With the police force and state schools administer by the central government (as they are not part of the free market) this would not leave much.
And of course in the open market people do not have to buy . How many people would pay the council tax on a voluntary basis ? On a free market basis the council would go bankrupt overnight . So a comparison with the free market is not a practical one.
The present system is a state administration system employing administrative clerks . Somehow, due to an oversight of our state government, both the titles and pay of the council clerks are decided by themselves ( I have been given to understand ).
For example the title 'chief executive' should be 'chief clerk' . Just what does this position execute ? I would have thought that a direct comparison with say a bank would indicate a pay of £30K to £35K, at the most, would be sensible. And a sensible wage for empowered democrat Councillors, who are suppose to execute the government instructions, is long overdue.
It appears to me that the council system is a gravy train that is fully support by the law and the courts. If you do not hand your money over to these people you will be stripped of your money and liberty - by being forced into a criminal prison.
It is time this undemocratic system was democratised and reorganised, as many people and the Liberal Party strongly believe.
HAL101, Bournemouth says...
12:04pm Fri 28 Mar 08
Ever heard of such a thing called 'market forces', or supply & demand? These people manage millions of pounds and what they do affects each of us every day
Market forces and the State councils
You have raised a pertinent point. In the open market the council would have to sell it's services. With the police force and state schools administer by the central government (as they are not part of the free market) this would not leave much.
And of course in the open market people do not have to buy. How many people would pay the council tax on a voluntary basis ? On a free market basis the council would go bankrupt overnight. So a comparison with the free market is not a practical one.
The present system is a state administration system employing administrative clerks. Somehow, due to an oversight of our state government, both the titles and pay of the council clerks are decided by themselves ( I have been given to understand ).
For example the title 'chief executive' should be 'chief clerk'. Just what does this position execute ? I would have thought that a direct comparison with say a bank would indicate a pay of £30K to £35K, at the most, would be sensible. And a sensible wage for empowered democrat Councillors, who are suppose to execute the government instructions, is long overdue.
It appears to me that the council system is a gravy train that is fully support by the law and the courts. If you do not hand your money over to these people you will be stripped of your money and liberty - by being forced into a criminal prison.
It is time this undemocratic system was democratised and reorganised, as many people and the Liberal Party strongly believe.
HAL101, Bournemouth says...
12:05pm Fri 28 Mar 08
omegaman, Bournemouth says...
12:33pm Fri 28 Mar 08
derek wrote:Rubbish - Pay scales for Chief Executives are set nationally according to the size of the Council. They cannot just pay themselves what they want. As for private companies there are not many in the area that have a turnover of newarly half billion ponnds and get paid less than their local government equivalents.Local government officers are sackable and accountantable. I can only think you are just jealous that some people can earn and deserve a higher wage packet than yourself.
The people in charge of local gvmt cannot be compared to people who run real compaines . They pay what they want , they see the public as a big wallet to be emptied . If they where in the real world then they would be accountable and sackable . And of course , people in the real world have a choice , if they see bad service they move to another supplier.
HAL101, Bournemouth says...
12:39pm Fri 28 Mar 08
Pay scales for Chief Executives are set nationally according to the size of the Council.
So who does set the council's wages . Do you know ?
Councils do not have a 'turn over' as private companies do. They just administer tax money. Comparing commercial companies with state tax systems is not practical.
JLC, here says...
12:45pm Fri 28 Mar 08
Why is it that people on low incomes are always the ones to whinge when someone does okay for themselves. If you want to earn decent money then work for it, like the Chief Exec of the council will have. They could no doubt earn twice that in private industry!
We live in a capitalist society. Deal with it or move to China!
Carl Barron, Dorset says...
12:51pm Fri 28 Mar 08
So they think that they are worth all this money considering the following:
Bth Councillor's have overtime periodically wrecked the potential of good investment, the following comes to mind:
1 The Echo stated many years ago that investors wanted to revamp the Pier and turn it into a Giant Marina come Casino with Bars and restaurants. Councillor's rejected the plan. Many passing vessels would have used this and future investments from wealthy entrepreneurs could have transpired as they would have seen Bth as a go a head modern thinking progressive town unlike it is today a miss mash of rubbish ideas.
2 Councillor's should have let private enterprise update modernise the 'Pier Approach Baths' to International standards. The ice rink could also have been incorporated into this venture much revenue could have been gained from this. Unlike the eyesore IMAX Councillor's agreed to .
Bournemouth has tremendous potential in the right hands.
Copy paste link below into browser, to see the some of the good sides to Bournemouth.
http://dorsetvisualg
uide.co.uk/Bournemou
th_Picture_Gallery.h
tm
JLC, here says...
1:01pm Fri 28 Mar 08
snoff, Poole says...
1:05pm Fri 28 Mar 08
Erica Monk wrote:Should be like it is in Oz where the only perks a council employee gets is to take a sheep / blue Heeler home for the nite and a can of the good ol amber nectar for their labour! That would show them eh Erica!!!!!
How about bringing in a wage system where one gets paid by the amount of work done. I know most (I didn't say all) council workers are a pack of bludgers. Get paid heaps for doing nothing or as little as possible.
Carrie, Poole says...
1:06pm Fri 28 Mar 08
Carrie, Poole says...
1:08pm Fri 28 Mar 08
The echo is happy to carry the story - but I wonder if it would be as quick to tell us the salaries that their top people earn?
Mark, Bournemouth says...
1:11pm Fri 28 Mar 08
If a council Chief Exec/Officer fouls up it is not their home on the line or their future at stake, so no these wage levels are far too high.
snoff, Poole says...
1:13pm Fri 28 Mar 08
fedupwithjobsworths wrote:I think your far too challenged as it is - rolling around in your own waste and howling wildly :)
Richard wrote: fedupwithjobsworths Go and offer yourself as Chief Exec to Bmth Council for £40k pa and let's see how you get on.It wouldnt be challenging enough :-)
fedupwithjobsworths, Moordown says...
1:15pm Fri 28 Mar 08
omegaman wrote:There is a big difference between running a company, which generates a turnover of £0.5 billion and one, which just spends this amount of money. A Chief Clerk is all that is needed to head up a Council.
derek wrote: The people in charge of local gvmt cannot be compared to people who run real compaines . They pay what they want , they see the public as a big wallet to be emptied . If they where in the real world then they would be accountable and sackable . And of course , people in the real world have a choice , if they see bad service they move to another supplier.Rubbish - Pay scales for Chief Executives are set nationally according to the size of the Council. They cannot just pay themselves what they want. As for private companies there are not many in the area that have a turnover of newarly half billion ponnds and get paid less than their local government equivalents.Local government officers are sackable and accountantable. I can only think you are just jealous that some people can earn and deserve a higher wage packet than yourself.
fedupwithjobsworths, Moordown says...
1:20pm Fri 28 Mar 08
Carrie wrote:The difference is that you don't need to buy the Echo if you don't want to. Nobody is forced to contribute to their salaries.
Sorry should have said The echo is happy to carry the story - but I wonder if it would be as quick to tell us the salaries that their top people earn?
Carl Barron, Dorset says...
1:30pm Fri 28 Mar 08
Quote A tramp asleep on a bench is a good side of Bournemouth?
Reply By now he's probably one of the Chief Executives , he looks like he's got all the qualifications, laid back attitude.
omegaman, Bournemouth says...
1:39pm Fri 28 Mar 08
Carl Barron wrote:A perfect example of a highly stupid comment.
Posted by: JLC, here on 1:01pm today Quote A tramp asleep on a bench is a good side of Bournemouth? Reply By now he's probably one of the Chief Executives , he looks like he's got all the qualifications, laid back attitude.
John, Poole says...
2:07pm Fri 28 Mar 08
fedupwithjobsworths wrote:So no rewards for NHS doctors, nurses ambulancemen,firemen policemen,etc in your society... that is,of course, if, to coin a phrase you think there is any such thing as society!
Carrie wrote: Sorry should have said The echo is happy to carry the story - but I wonder if it would be as quick to tell us the salaries that their top people earn?The difference is that you don't need to buy the Echo if you don't want to. Nobody is forced to contribute to their salaries.
Chris, Wareham says...
2:31pm Fri 28 Mar 08
fedupwithjobsworths, Moordown says...
3:33pm Fri 28 Mar 08
John wrote:NHS doctors, nurses ambulancemen,firemen policemen, etc all do a fantastic job and deserve every penny they earn. These people are in front line jobs that serve the public - it's the empire building jobsworths I object to.
fedupwithjobsworths wrote:So no rewards for NHS doctors, nurses ambulancemen,firemen policemen,etc in your society... that is,of course, if, to coin a phrase you think there is any such thing as society!Carrie wrote: Sorry should have said The echo is happy to carry the story - but I wonder if it would be as quick to tell us the salaries that their top people earn?The difference is that you don't need to buy the Echo if you don't want to. Nobody is forced to contribute to their salaries.
Phil, Poole says...
3:45pm Fri 28 Mar 08
fedupwithjobsworths wrote:You've hit the nail on the head. Also, the CEO of a company would be held accountable for results and therefore have far less job security than a council 'chief executive' - indeed the latter appear to have a job for life, not to mention a gold-plated pension. It's high time we council tax payers demanded better value for money.
omegaman wrote:There is a big difference between running a company, which generates a turnover of £0.5 billion and one, which just spends this amount of money. A Chief Clerk is all that is needed to head up a Council.
derek wrote: The people in charge of local gvmt cannot be compared to people who run real compaines . They pay what they want , they see the public as a big wallet to be emptied . If they where in the real world then they would be accountable and sackable . And of course , people in the real world have a choice , if they see bad service they move to another supplier.Rubbish - Pay scales for Chief Executives are set nationally according to the size of the Council. They cannot just pay themselves what they want. As for private companies there are not many in the area that have a turnover of newarly half billion ponnds and get paid less than their local government equivalents.Local government officers are sackable and accountantable. I can only think you are just jealous that some people can earn and deserve a higher wage packet than yourself.
Phil, Poole says...
3:49pm Fri 28 Mar 08
snoff wrote:snoff, I think we all know now that you 'work' for the council - on the rare occasions that you're not on this website. So please stop insulting tax-payers and go and earn the money we're paying you.
fedupwithjobsworths wrote:I think your far too challenged as it is - rolling around in your own waste and howling wildly :)
Richard wrote: fedupwithjobsworths Go and offer yourself as Chief Exec to Bmth Council for £40k pa and let's see how you get on.It wouldnt be challenging enough :-)
Trifecta, Southbourne says...
4:11pm Fri 28 Mar 08
I have no idea whether this lady is worth this money or not but can somebody tell me exactly what she does to earn it?
I mean the mechanics of the job, the day to day stuff. What special skills does she offer?
And what was the rate of pay for this job prior to 1997 and the boom in local government and red tape?
PETE WOODLEY, says...
4:24pm Fri 28 Mar 08
PETE WOODLEY, says...
4:25pm Fri 28 Mar 08
PETE WOODLEY, says...
4:27pm Fri 28 Mar 08
Carl Barron, Dorset says...
5:09pm Fri 28 Mar 08
A survey revealed 14 executive Council chiefs earn more than Brown's annual salary of 188,849 pounds, while a further 132 earn more than cabinet ministers -- at 137,579 pounds.
The highest earner was Kent County Council's chief, Peter Gilroy , who takes home almost 230,000 pounds, the survey found.
Is this taking the MICK out of us Taxpayers, or what?
Brown needs his head read , if he's earning less than his subordinates
Copy paste link into browser below:
http://uk.reuters.co
m/article/domesticNe
ws/idUKGOR8326672008
0328
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the owl, Bere Regis says...
5:10pm Fri 28 Mar 08
Trifecta, Southbourne says...
5:39pm Fri 28 Mar 08
A quick Google reveals that she seems to appoint a lot of consultants but there must be more. Surely?
Oh BTW.
"With a turnover of around £400 million the salaries are perfectly normal and represent good value for money when compared with other public and private sector organisations of this size."
A quote from the last council leader a year ago today when the Echo ran the same story quoting from the same organisation.
It's the same old song.....
omegaman, Bournemouth says...
5:44pm Fri 28 Mar 08
Phil wrote:Again these contributors know nothing about how the system works. Local Government CEs do not have a job for life. They are on fixed term contracts and assessed every year for performance.Indeed the checks on them is far greater than any CE in the private sector.As for psension those in the private sector can out do local government ones by as much as tenfold. Some people never want to know the truth.
fedupwithjobsworths wrote:You've hit the nail on the head. Also, the CEO of a company would be held accountable for results and therefore have far less job security than a council 'chief executive' - indeed the latter appear to have a job for life, not to mention a gold-plated pension. It's high time we council tax payers demanded better value for money.omegaman wrote:There is a big difference between running a company, which generates a turnover of £0.5 billion and one, which just spends this amount of money. A Chief Clerk is all that is needed to head up a Council.derek wrote: The people in charge of local gvmt cannot be compared to people who run real compaines . They pay what they want , they see the public as a big wallet to be emptied . If they where in the real world then they would be accountable and sackable . And of course , people in the real world have a choice , if they see bad service they move to another supplier.Rubbish - Pay scales for Chief Executives are set nationally according to the size of the Council. They cannot just pay themselves what they want. As for private companies there are not many in the area that have a turnover of newarly half billion ponnds and get paid less than their local government equivalents.Local government officers are sackable and accountantable. I can only think you are just jealous that some people can earn and deserve a higher wage packet than yourself.
omegaman, Bournemouth says...
5:48pm Fri 28 Mar 08
PETE WOODLEY wrote:What you really mean is that she is GOOD and worth every penny she gets.She always answers genuine letters from local residents but as anyone else would declines to waste her time with anyone who jus writes in because they have nothing else to do and are vindictive in the process. I presume you are not one of those. By the way you are in danger of losing one of those pints I owe you.
For a start,she wont speak to the likes of you and me,we are "beneath her",try phoning her at the town hall,HER royal palace,not a bit like mr lomas,who anyone could deal with.She is GOD.
snoff, Poole says...
5:49pm Fri 28 Mar 08
Phil wrote:Hi there, haven't been on for a while to be honest, not really missed much as you spout the usual nonsense - all a bit boring really. I don't work for the council but I love winding morons like you up! ;)
snoff wrote:snoff, I think we all know now that you 'work' for the council - on the rare occasions that you're not on this website. So please stop insulting tax-payers and go and earn the money we're paying you.fedupwithjobsworths wrote:I think your far too challenged as it is - rolling around in your own waste and howling wildly :)Richard wrote: fedupwithjobsworths Go and offer yourself as Chief Exec to Bmth Council for £40k pa and let's see how you get on.It wouldnt be challenging enough :-)
snoff, Poole says...
5:50pm Fri 28 Mar 08
PETE WOODLEY wrote:yes, I think you have made your point now, back of bed Mr Woodley!
For a start,she wont speak to the likes of you and me,we are "beneath her",try phoning her at the town hall,HER royal palace,not a bit like mr lomas,who anyone could deal with.She is GOD.
fedupwithjobsworths, Moordown says...
6:05pm Fri 28 Mar 08
snoff wrote:Does anyone know if snoff has ever made a valid comment - he just seems to slag people off.
PETE WOODLEY wrote: For a start,she wont speak to the likes of you and me,we are "beneath her",try phoning her at the town hall,HER royal palace,not a bit like mr lomas,who anyone could deal with.She is GOD.yes, I think you have made your point now, back of bed Mr Woodley!
Bournemouth UKIP, Bournemouth says...
6:22pm Fri 28 Mar 08
HAL101, Bournemouth says...
6:27pm Fri 28 Mar 08
Quote A tramp asleep on a bench is a good side of Bournemouth?
Reply By now he's probably one of the Chief Executives , he looks like he's got all the qualifications, laid back attitude.
Carl, that is a pure gold comment. One of the best you have made. Going by personal experience the chief exec do no work what so ever . They just fill an office chair - the most expensive that money can buy.
HAL101, Bournemouth says...
6:33pm Fri 28 Mar 08
That's really good, I am impressed . I have taken a copy and put it into a new folder - 'Insulting Posters'
Any more ?
omegaman, Bournemouth says...
6:36pm Fri 28 Mar 08
HAL101 wrote:Again a very silly and ignorant comment. The CE of Bournemouth heads one of the largest organisations in Dorset. a 1/2 billion pound budget. nearly 7000 staff. She should actually get more and then she is not in the private sector. Perhaps all the morons who keep wrting in should actually think about the issue a bit more thoughtfully or perhaps they are not capable of doing that.
Posted by: Carl Barron, Dorset on 1:30pm todayQuote A tramp asleep on a bench is a good side of Bournemouth? Reply By now he's probably one of the Chief Executives , he looks like he's got all the qualifications, laid back attitude.Carl, that is a pure gold comment. One of the best you have made. Going by personal experience the chief exec do no work what so ever . They just fill an office chair - the most expensive that money can buy.
HAL101, Bournemouth says...
6:38pm Fri 28 Mar 08
omegaman wrote:Yes that is because we are kept in the dark.
Phil wrote:Again these contributors know nothing about how the system works. Local Government CEs do not have a job for life. They are on fixed term contracts and assessed every year for performance.Indeed the checks on them is far greater than any CE in the private sector.As for psension those in the private sector can out do local government ones by as much as tenfold. Some people never want to know the truth.fedupwithjobsworths wrote:You've hit the nail on the head. Also, the CEO of a company would be held accountable for results and therefore have far less job security than a council 'chief executive' - indeed the latter appear to have a job for life, not to mention a gold-plated pension. It's high time we council tax payers demanded better value for money.omegaman wrote:There is a big difference between running a company, which generates a turnover of £0.5 billion and one, which just spends this amount of money. A Chief Clerk is all that is needed to head up a Council.derek wrote: The people in charge of local gvmt cannot be compared to people who run real compaines . They pay what they want , they see the public as a big wallet to be emptied . If they where in the real world then they would be accountable and sackable . And of course , people in the real world have a choice , if they see bad service they move to another supplier.Rubbish - Pay scales for Chief Executives are set nationally according to the size of the Council. They cannot just pay themselves what they want. As for private companies there are not many in the area that have a turnover of newarly half billion ponnds and get paid less than their local government equivalents.Local government officers are sackable and accountantable. I can only think you are just jealous that some people can earn and deserve a higher wage packet than yourself.
So come on omegaman, who checks them, and who decides the pay rate. Enlighten us please.
omegaman, Bournemouth says...
6:40pm Fri 28 Mar 08
Bournemouth UKIP wrote:Wondered when the nutters from UKIP would join in!
So called market forces don't come into this. No private company can force you to buy their product on pain of imprisoment or a hefty fine and there are no alternative competitors to the local council to force prices down.
omegaman, Bournemouth says...
6:42pm Fri 28 Mar 08
HAL101 wrote:The Audit Commission for starters.
omegaman wrote:Yes that is because we are kept in the dark. So come on omegaman, who checks them, and who decides the pay rate. Enlighten us please.Phil wrote:Again these contributors know nothing about how the system works. Local Government CEs do not have a job for life. They are on fixed term contracts and assessed every year for performance.Indeed the checks on them is far greater than any CE in the private sector.As for psension those in the private sector can out do local government ones by as much as tenfold. Some people never want to know the truth.fedupwithjobsworths wrote:You've hit the nail on the head. Also, the CEO of a company would be held accountable for results and therefore have far less job security than a council 'chief executive' - indeed the latter appear to have a job for life, not to mention a gold-plated pension. It's high time we council tax payers demanded better value for money.omegaman wrote:There is a big difference between running a company, which generates a turnover of £0.5 billion and one, which just spends this amount of money. A Chief Clerk is all that is needed to head up a Council.derek wrote: The people in charge of local gvmt cannot be compared to people who run real compaines . They pay what they want , they see the public as a big wallet to be emptied . If they where in the real world then they would be accountable and sackable . And of course , people in the real world have a choice , if they see bad service they move to another supplier.Rubbish - Pay scales for Chief Executives are set nationally according to the size of the Council. They cannot just pay themselves what they want. As for private companies there are not many in the area that have a turnover of newarly half billion ponnds and get paid less than their local government equivalents.Local government officers are sackable and accountantable. I can only think you are just jealous that some people can earn and deserve a higher wage packet than yourself.
Charlie, says...
6:44pm Fri 28 Mar 08
"As public servants, we should rightly be challenged to deliver high standards & ever-improving performance, but please don't begrudge us a reasonably fair rate of pay. Most of us do this work because we want to make a difference for our communities - certainly not for the money, which many of us could boost substantially by working elsewhere."
Glad you've acknowledged that you are a servant - I always did. Of course, there's also the final salary pension to be taken into account - has made my retirement very comfortable.
HAL101, Bournemouth says...
6:50pm Fri 28 Mar 08
What is silly ?
What is ignorant ?
Justify please or apologise and retract.
The CE does not 'head'. The democratically elected councillors do. The CE is simply an administrator who heads a bloated department (7000 !!!) that is hopelessly over funded and overpowered and long overdue a drastic server prune.
There is no comparison to made with the free market private sector. The council is part of the non-democratic state ruling system.
What is silly ?
What is ignorant ?
Justify please or apologise and retract.
I await your reply.
HAL101, Bournemouth says...
6:55pm Fri 28 Mar 08
The Audit Commission for starters.
Hiding behind empty titles ?
Let me guess, they work or are appointed by a branch of the non-democratic state ruling sector - the civil service.
Can you say who actually does it ?
HAL101, Bournemouth says...
7:02pm Fri 28 Mar 08
please don't begrudge us a reasonably fair rate of pay
We dont begrudge you Charlie. In fact, we demand that you have a fair rate of pay. About a quarter of what you have now, plus state retirement age of 65, plus the state pension. Now what is fairer than that ?
Note - in the 1930s the state employees had their pay cut by 30% (I believe)
omegaman, Bournemouth says...
7:15pm Fri 28 Mar 08
HAL101 wrote:You have just made my point exactly. The full time employees f the Council are responsible for the day to day running of the Council and not the elected Councillors.The apology shpould come from the likes of you who make comments without any knowledge of the facts whatssoever.But never mind if it gives you pleasure then so be it but no one in their right mind would take you seriously.Of course the CE heads the organisation. If the Council was overfunded then why would everyone complain about councl tax increases - there would be no need for increases at all. I think that is probably enough lesson for you to take in in one go so take your milk and go to bed early like a good child.
omegaman, Bournemouth on 6:36pm today What is silly ? What is ignorant ? Justify please or apologise and retract. The CE does not 'head'. The democratically elected councillors do. The CE is simply an administrator who heads a bloated department (7000 !!!) that is hopelessly over funded and overpowered and long overdue a drastic server prune. There is no comparison to made with the free market private sector. The council is part of the non-democratic state ruling system. What is silly ? What is ignorant ? Justify please or apologise and retract. I await your reply.
Trifecta, Southbourne says...
7:18pm Fri 28 Mar 08
You mentioned checks on her performance. I can only find one and that was in 2004 when her department was identified by the BBC as failing.
They said:
"Bosses at one of the South's worst performing social service units have defended themselves after it failed to improve its star rating.
Bournemouth Social Services was given just one star in the latest government performance figures."
The reward for this performance? Well worth having.
I have no axe to grind about this woman, she is obviously a career civil servant who has done well for herself and for that alone she is to be applauded.
But what does she actually do Sir ?
Bournemouth UKIP, Bournemouth says...
7:20pm Fri 28 Mar 08
omegaman wrote:Funny that - We wondered when the insults would start?
Bournemouth UKIP wrote: So called market forces don't come into this. No private company can force you to buy their product on pain of imprisoment or a hefty fine and there are no alternative competitors to the local council to force prices down.Wondered when the nutters from UKIP would join in!
HAL101, Bournemouth says...
7:32pm Fri 28 Mar 08
The full time employees f the Council are responsible for the day to day running of the Council and not the elected Councillors.
Exactly. The council are simply administrators and it is the councillors who are the elected executives . We fully agree with each other. It is so nice to be agreeable, would you not agree ?
The council is over funded by the government and the council tax payer, as is obvious from the bloated wages, the low retirement age, and the golden pension, quite apart from the council contractors. And of course the gross over manning (or to be more accurate over womanning) of the 7000 (!!!!! are you sure about that ?) staff. It is no wonder that there is so few police around, and that class sizes of 30 to 40 are common, and that state pensioners are cripple by the unrealistically high council tax.
You have avoided all my questions and have not justified your abuse of me. I demand that you apologise for calling me silly and ignorant, and implying that I am childish.
HAL101, Bournemouth says...
7:54pm Fri 28 Mar 08
I demand that you retract and apologise.
HAL101, Bournemouth says...
7:56pm Fri 28 Mar 08
He's done a runner.
omegaman, Bournemouth says...
8:06pm Fri 28 Mar 08
As for me I am on my way out to dinner. My taxi is waiting and a fine meal together with some vintage wine will make my evening complete.
omegaman, Bournemouth says...
8:10pm Fri 28 Mar 08
Bournemouth UKIP wrote:You didn't have to wait long as usual.
omegaman wrote:Funny that - We wondered when the insults would start?Bournemouth UKIP wrote: So called market forces don't come into this. No private company can force you to buy their product on pain of imprisoment or a hefty fine and there are no alternative competitors to the local council to force prices down.Wondered when the nutters from UKIP would join in!
Charlie, says...
8:12pm Fri 28 Mar 08
HAL101 wrote:Chris wrote: "please don't begrudge us a reasonably fair rate of pay" - not me. I'm already retired and am receiving my final salary pension (less than a quarter of what I was earning) plus state retirement pension, which isn't enough to live on on its own..
Posted by: Charlie on 6:44pm todayplease don't begrudge us a reasonably fair rate of payWe dont begrudge you Charlie. In fact, we demand that you have a fair rate of pay. About a quarter of what you have now, plus state retirement age of 65, plus the state pension. Now what is fairer than that ? Note - in the 1930s the state employees had their pay cut by 30% (I believe)
HAL101, Bournemouth says...
8:43pm Fri 28 Mar 08
Chris wrote: "please don't begrudge us a reasonably fair rate of pay" - not me.
Well spotted. I retract and apologise.
HAL101, Bournemouth says...
8:46pm Fri 28 Mar 08
That all sounds like pure fantasy to me. I am off to have my dry bread and stale cheese and tap water. Yummy.
See you tomorra. :)
Old Contemptible, Poole says...
9:25pm Fri 28 Mar 08
Erica Monk, Australia says...
8:09am Sat 29 Mar 08
HAL101, Bournemouth says...
10:15am Sat 29 Mar 08
Erica Monk wrote:But we are giving our opinions Erica. And we are allowed to reply to others.
Oh for goodness sake why don't you two grow up this is a site for people to give their opinions of course they are going to be different from yours so what let them have their say & leave them alone.
HAL101, Bournemouth says...
10:21am Sat 29 Mar 08
Erica Monk wrote:But we are giving our opinions Erica. And we are allowed to reply to others.
Oh for goodness sake why don't you two grow up this is a site for people to give their opinions of course they are going to be different from yours so what let them have their say & leave them alone.
omegaman, Bournemouth says...
10:36am Sat 29 Mar 08
Erica Monk wrote:What on earth has it got to do with someone in Australia!
Oh for goodness sake why don't you two grow up this is a site for people to give their opinions of course they are going to be different from yours so what let them have their say & leave them alone.
Nighthawk, Bournemouth says...
1:36pm Sat 29 Mar 08
omegaman wrote:omegaman - You are extremely rude and disrespectful of other peoples opinions, obviously your extensive intake of Vintage Wine has addled the few remaining brain cells you have left. I work for Local Government and would love to have a pay rise that just keeps even slightly ahead of inflation. As it is our salary increase is pegged at less than than 3% for the next three years. With current rates of inflation, we are effectively taking a pay cut, in real terms. With Council Tax set to rise at the rate of 4.5% in this area, it's easy to see where this money is going. With Fat Cat salaries being paid to the "jobsfortheboys&girl
Erica Monk wrote:What on earth has it got to do with someone in Australia!
Oh for goodness sake why don't you two grow up this is a site for people to give their opinions of course they are going to be different from yours so what let them have their say & leave them alone.
sworths"
May I suggest that you take up residence in China, where you will more than likely simply disappear for expressing your insulting remarks, with any luck !! We live in a democracy where freedom of speech is a basic human right, as should be the right to earn a decent wage for a hards days graft. We would all love a double figure pay increase, but unfortunately have to live in the real world, and abide by the decisions made by our esteemed leaders.
bigmac, Bournemouth says...
1:59pm Sat 29 Mar 08
snoff wrote:Snoff, you are also rude, belittling and insulting. Leave the gentleman Pete Woodley alone, there's a good lad. He's a regular contributor to the Echo Comments, and entitled to his opinion, as are others, without you putting in your "two pennies".......
PETE WOODLEY wrote:yes, I think you have made your point now, back of bed Mr Woodley!
For a start,she wont speak to the likes of you and me,we are "beneath her",try phoning her at the town hall,HER royal palace,not a bit like mr lomas,who anyone could deal with.She is GOD.
omegaman, Bournemouth says...
6:01pm Sat 29 Mar 08
Nighthawk wrote:It's always nice to be appreciated. The wine last night was especially good but so was the food.I have thought about China but of course it's hard to get a good take away there.Delighted to hear that you work in local government. i hope next time ypou a get a good pay rise.
omegaman wrote:omegaman - You are extremely rude and disrespectful of other peoples opinions, obviously your extensive intake of Vintage Wine has addled the few remaining brain cells you have left. I work for Local Government and would love to have a pay rise that just keeps even slightly ahead of inflation. As it is our salary increase is pegged at less than than 3% for the next three years. With current rates of inflation, we are effectively taking a pay cut, in real terms. With Council Tax set to rise at the rate of 4.5% in this area, it's easy to see where this money is going. With Fat Cat salaries being paid to the "jobsfortheboys&girl sworths" May I suggest that you take up residence in China, where you will more than likely simply disappear for expressing your insulting remarks, with any luck !! We live in a democracy where freedom of speech is a basic human right, as should be the right to earn a decent wage for a hards days graft. We would all love a double figure pay increase, but unfortunately have to live in the real world, and abide by the decisions made by our esteemed leaders.Erica Monk wrote: Oh for goodness sake why don't you two grow up this is a site for people to give their opinions of course they are going to be different from yours so what let them have their say & leave them alone.What on earth has it got to do with someone in Australia!
accountability, Ex-local says...
6:28pm Sun 30 Mar 08
They just keep their nose clean, employ loads of consultants who they can blame if anything goes wrong, don't make any decisions and wait for pension day.
If you deal with the council officers you will recognise this common species.
I know it is true as I went into a high powered job in a council from the private sector and couldn't believe the 'do nothing' culture. I got out fast ....... and I wouldn't pay most of them in washers!
Nighthawk, Bournemouth says...
7:43pm Sun 30 Mar 08
PETE WOODLEY, says...
9:11pm Sun 30 Mar 08
Nighthawk, Bournemouth says...
9:32pm Sun 30 Mar 08
PETE WOODLEY wrote:Apparently, he can afford good quality Wine & Food, so one must assume that two pints of ale wouldn't break the bank. Sorry Pete, not sure who omegaman really is. Maybe someone else would be kind enough to enlighten us all. Come on folks......spill the beans please !!
Is "omegaman" a labour councillor or a town hall employee,obviously one of the chosen few,has anyone any other guesses,he owes me two pints and i want to collect.
Nick, Bournemouth says...
12:21am Mon 31 Mar 08
John, Poole says...
9:18am Mon 31 Mar 08
Nighthawk, Bournemouth says...
11:38am Tue 1 Apr 08
PETE WOODLEY, says...
12:24pm Tue 1 Apr 08
Nighthawk wrote:How right you are,We need another Enoch now to wake us all up to whats happening,This country is going down the pan.
I only wish all concerned had taken on board Enoch Powell's "Rivers of Blood" Speech back in the 60's . We have the big fat over paid Council bosses forever licking up the cream, that's very true, but we also have far too many immigrants, who see it as their Human Right to claim benefits and take advantage of our NHS, for which they have never paid into. If only they had listened, when E Powell spoke from the heart, and his own first hand knowledge of what was happening in his own constituency at the time. He could see what lie ahead. We now have the very real problem of these immigrants, too many of them, that he tried to warn about. Resources are becoming more and more scarce. Ordinary folk like myself re having to work even harder just to make ends meet, just to scratch out an honest, decent, living, therefore it is hardly surprising that the top earners are under scrutiny.
PETE WOODLEY, says...
12:25pm Tue 1 Apr 08
Nighthawk wrote:How right you are,We need another Enoch now to wake us all up to whats happening,This country is going down the pan.
I only wish all concerned had taken on board Enoch Powell's "Rivers of Blood" Speech back in the 60's . We have the big fat over paid Council bosses forever licking up the cream, that's very true, but we also have far too many immigrants, who see it as their Human Right to claim benefits and take advantage of our NHS, for which they have never paid into. If only they had listened, when E Powell spoke from the heart, and his own first hand knowledge of what was happening in his own constituency at the time. He could see what lie ahead. We now have the very real problem of these immigrants, too many of them, that he tried to warn about. Resources are becoming more and more scarce. Ordinary folk like myself re having to work even harder just to make ends meet, just to scratch out an honest, decent, living, therefore it is hardly surprising that the top earners are under scrutiny.
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HAL101, Bournemouth says...
7:36am Fri 28 Mar 08
As it appears that they are in the position to decide their own pay levels , and take what tax they want, I am very surprised that they have shown such restraint.
We peasants should be humble and grateful that our council Barons have not awarded themselves far greater amounts such as millions, and tripled or quadrupled the council tax.
The question I ask myself in the mirror is, how did such a rotten system of tyranny evolve originally and why is this rotten council system of social control not evolving towards a democratic system ? Clearly the elected councillors are not in control or the pay of the chief executive Barons and the council tax would be very much lower.
Oh, how I long for that wonderful day when we peasants rise in our millions and baying with fury storm the council office castles to confront the chief executive Barons and their body guards and remove them in a blood bath - Oh joyful day of freedommmmmmm !!!!!!!!!!!!!