UPDATE: Application for £3bn Navitus Bay wind farm accepted by planning body

Bournemouth Echo: Application for £3bn Navitus Bay wind farm accepted by Planning Inspectorate Application for £3bn Navitus Bay wind farm accepted by Planning Inspectorate

THE planning application for the controversial wind park off the Dorset coast has been accepted by the Planning Inspectorate.

The Government confirmed today that the application was valid and published all of the associated documents, including a funding statement that confirms that the total project construction costs will be £3 billion.

French energy giant EDF and Dutch utility company Eneco are behind the Navitus Bay park.

Now that the application has been accepted by the Planning Inspectorate, it has three months to prepare to examine it.

Between now and then, anyone can register as an interested party.

It is the first time that the full details of the scheme have been published, but the application still contains many variables.

It confirms that there will be up to 194 turbines, with a maximum tip height of 200m.

Cabling will make land at Taddiford Gap, between Barton on Sea and New Milton, and run around 22 miles to a new substation close to the existing National Grid station at Mannington near Wimborne.

The news comes as Bournemouth Borough Council prepares to hold a major meeting at the BIC on Saturday to give residents the chance to have a say on how it should respond to the application.

Mike Unsworth, project director for Navitus Bay, said: “We are delighted that our development consent application has been accepted for examination and it is testament to the vast amount of work undertaken by the project team and independent experts to deliver the 18,000 page application.

“While PINS (Planning Inspectorate) examines our application we will continue to work with stakeholders, businesses and residents in Dorset, Hampshire and the Isle of Wight whenever we can, to make sure that everyone is kept up-to-date about the project and the considerable benefits that it would bring, in terms of sustainable energy generation, job creation and economic opportunities."

Welcoming today’s move, Mike Birkin, South West campaigner for Friends of the Earth, said:

"This is a major step forward for this exciting project, which promises to be the biggest source of clean energy in the south of England.

“Offshore wind is huge success story for the UK, providing thousands of jobs and boosting energy security.

“We now welcome the opportunity for proper scrutiny of the proposals, which will shed light on some of the alarmist and unfounded information that has been spread by its opponents."

David Lloyd, of opposition group Challenge Navitus, said: “This is not about renewables, it’s about this particular proposal.

"It’s simply too big and in the wrong place. Inspectors will be concerned only with planning issues. Loss of amenity, visual impact, economic effects on local businesses are all valid planning issues.

“They will take reasoned arguments from individuals and organisations seriously, but petitions or copies of identical letters carry little weight.”

Council 'anger'

THE publication of planning documents has revealed the extent of Bournemouth Borough Council’s anger over the consultation.

Bournemouth council response on Navitus consultation

In its ‘adequacy of consultation’ response, Mike Holmes, director of planning, transport and regulation services, said that NBDL had “in general terms followed the consultation requirements” but there were a “number of issues” with the information that meant he could not describe the consultation as “fully adequate”.

Mr Holmes said that NBDL’s visualisations did not provide enough information and that the fact they did not compare with natural landmarks was “considered significant”.

He said that NBDL’s presentation of the “potential significant threat on jobs and the local economy” was “sufficiently misleading that it may well have led to misinformed responses”.

He also said the council was disappointed that NBDL did not engage fully with the town’s tourism representatives.

Don Gobbett, head of planning at Dorset County Council, said although NBDL had complied with its legal requirements, he shared concerns over the quality of the consultation.

He added: “In particular, consultation responses from county council officers and the general public requesting alternative visualisations of the proposed development have been ignored.

It is now commonly accepted that the existing guidance on land and seascape visualisations results in poor representations of what is likely to be seen in reality.”

You can see more documents at http://infrastructure.planningportal.gov.uk/projects/south-east/navitus-bay-wind-park/?ipcsection=overview

 

Comments (28)

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1:32pm Thu 8 May 14

BarrHumbug says...

So the planning body have accepted to look at the application, they now have 3 months to prepare to look at it, then start trawling through the 18,000 pages, and how much is all this costing and is there any chance of actually seeing the thing built and working within our lifetime?
So the planning body have accepted to look at the application, they now have 3 months to prepare to look at it, then start trawling through the 18,000 pages, and how much is all this costing and is there any chance of actually seeing the thing built and working within our lifetime? BarrHumbug
  • Score: -16

1:38pm Thu 8 May 14

saynomore says...

Now perhaps the moaners with their very long distant hearing and eyesight superpowers will finally shut up and find something else to protest about (some hope)
Now perhaps the moaners with their very long distant hearing and eyesight superpowers will finally shut up and find something else to protest about (some hope) saynomore
  • Score: -7

1:57pm Thu 8 May 14

Ebb Tide says...

BarrHumbug wrote:
So the planning body have accepted to look at the application, they now have 3 months to prepare to look at it, then start trawling through the 18,000 pages, and how much is all this costing and is there any chance of actually seeing the thing built and working within our lifetime?
Not forgetting the influence of a general election and the likelihood of a saner government reviewing everthing and establishing a credible energy policy for UK Plc !

Investing in something that produces electricity so expensive (when compared with other means) is not a matter to be taken lightly : fundamental economic policy for UK Plc cannot be disregarded. In other words can our businesses survive if our electricity prices are six time those of our global competitors ?
[quote][p][bold]BarrHumbug[/bold] wrote: So the planning body have accepted to look at the application, they now have 3 months to prepare to look at it, then start trawling through the 18,000 pages, and how much is all this costing and is there any chance of actually seeing the thing built and working within our lifetime?[/p][/quote]Not forgetting the influence of a general election and the likelihood of a saner government reviewing everthing and establishing a credible energy policy for UK Plc ! Investing in something that produces electricity so expensive (when compared with other means) is not a matter to be taken lightly : fundamental economic policy for UK Plc cannot be disregarded. In other words can our businesses survive if our electricity prices are six time those of our global competitors ? Ebb Tide
  • Score: 9

2:10pm Thu 8 May 14

BarrHumbug says...

saynomore wrote:
Now perhaps the moaners with their very long distant hearing and eyesight superpowers will finally shut up and find something else to protest about (some hope)
Oh no, on the contrary. This announcement is just to state that the planning body have accepted to look at the application, add to that the NIMBY's registering their interest to look at it and voice their rejection of every point in it, I doubt it will ever get passed.

But then that wouldn't be a bad thing, not because of the supposedly spoilt view, the apparent noise or the murder of birds on such a scale that it puts Malta in the shade. No, because the things don't produce efficient cheap energy.
[quote][p][bold]saynomore[/bold] wrote: Now perhaps the moaners with their very long distant hearing and eyesight superpowers will finally shut up and find something else to protest about (some hope)[/p][/quote]Oh no, on the contrary. This announcement is just to state that the planning body have accepted to look at the application, add to that the NIMBY's registering their interest to look at it and voice their rejection of every point in it, I doubt it will ever get passed. But then that wouldn't be a bad thing, not because of the supposedly spoilt view, the apparent noise or the murder of birds on such a scale that it puts Malta in the shade. No, because the things don't produce efficient cheap energy. BarrHumbug
  • Score: 2

2:20pm Thu 8 May 14

Tictock says...

Hurrah! A vote for common sense! Well done!
Hurrah! A vote for common sense! Well done! Tictock
  • Score: -2

2:21pm Thu 8 May 14

adspacebroker says...

SSSSSssshhh! Hark....can you hear them windmills!!! Absolutely fantastic news!!!
SSSSSssshhh! Hark....can you hear them windmills!!! Absolutely fantastic news!!! adspacebroker
  • Score: -4

3:18pm Thu 8 May 14

nobodyexpectedthat says...

Rising temperatures, maybe, mabe not!
Man made climate change, maybe maybe not!

Is there are 'truth' in any of these? depends on who you believe.

What is true and indisputable, is that the 'old' methods of generating electricity rely on finite resources or resources that the UK has no control over. Coal, Oil, Gas, Uranium are all running out. Yes there may be loads of gas through Fracking but it too one day will run out.

So the real issue here is that we (UK plc) need to generate our own energy to guarantee our way of life and security. If we dont then the lights will go out one day.

So we HAVE to look into alternative renewables. So this is not just about the cost of electricity as many opponents of wind, tidal, bio fuel power would have you believe.

A balanced local, logical, sustainable, renewable energy policy is the only sensible way forward. If you dont support this, where do you believe we will get our power from in 10, 20, 50 years?

Yes renewable energy technologies come at a price, but what price the alternatives?
Rising temperatures, maybe, mabe not! Man made climate change, maybe maybe not! Is there are 'truth' in any of these? depends on who you believe. What is true and indisputable, is that the 'old' methods of generating electricity rely on finite resources or resources that the UK has no control over. Coal, Oil, Gas, Uranium are all running out. Yes there may be loads of gas through Fracking but it too one day will run out. So the real issue here is that we (UK plc) need to generate our own energy to guarantee our way of life and security. If we dont then the lights will go out one day. So we HAVE to look into alternative renewables. So this is not just about the cost of electricity as many opponents of wind, tidal, bio fuel power would have you believe. A balanced local, logical, sustainable, renewable energy policy is the only sensible way forward. If you dont support this, where do you believe we will get our power from in 10, 20, 50 years? Yes renewable energy technologies come at a price, but what price the alternatives? nobodyexpectedthat
  • Score: -2

3:43pm Thu 8 May 14

itsneverblackorwhite says...

no surprise they got planning!
no surprise they got planning! itsneverblackorwhite
  • Score: -6

4:39pm Thu 8 May 14

Branksome snail says...

itsneverblackorwhite wrote:
no surprise they got planning!
if you mean permission, they didnt
It just means an application has been submitted
[quote][p][bold]itsneverblackorwhite[/bold] wrote: no surprise they got planning![/p][/quote]if you mean permission, they didnt It just means an application has been submitted Branksome snail
  • Score: 15

4:59pm Thu 8 May 14

Ebb Tide says...

itsneverblackorwhite wrote:
no surprise they got planning!
All they got was acknowledgement that they had put in a submission that was worth examining. The examination has now started. A decision is a long way off. The other side of a General Election no doubt !
[quote][p][bold]itsneverblackorwhite[/bold] wrote: no surprise they got planning![/p][/quote]All they got was acknowledgement that they had put in a submission that was worth examining. The examination has now started. A decision is a long way off. The other side of a General Election no doubt ! Ebb Tide
  • Score: 14

5:10pm Thu 8 May 14

Ebb Tide says...

nobodyexpectedthat wrote:
Rising temperatures, maybe, mabe not!
Man made climate change, maybe maybe not!

Is there are 'truth' in any of these? depends on who you believe.

What is true and indisputable, is that the 'old' methods of generating electricity rely on finite resources or resources that the UK has no control over. Coal, Oil, Gas, Uranium are all running out. Yes there may be loads of gas through Fracking but it too one day will run out.

So the real issue here is that we (UK plc) need to generate our own energy to guarantee our way of life and security. If we dont then the lights will go out one day.

So we HAVE to look into alternative renewables. So this is not just about the cost of electricity as many opponents of wind, tidal, bio fuel power would have you believe.

A balanced local, logical, sustainable, renewable energy policy is the only sensible way forward. If you dont support this, where do you believe we will get our power from in 10, 20, 50 years?

Yes renewable energy technologies come at a price, but what price the alternatives?
There is enough fossil fuel for mankind to incinerate itself. The challenge is to find ways in which, if at all, fossil fuels can be used without increasing greenhouse gases in the upper atmosphere.

The expression "if at all" is used because we are signally failing to find ways of generating electricity that are economically sustainable ! UK Plc has to EARN a living. Hopefully the UN (and common sense) will ensure that survival of any nation does not depend upon aggression / robbery / exploitation - as it did in the "good old days". Viking raids worked for the Vikings !
[quote][p][bold]nobodyexpectedthat[/bold] wrote: Rising temperatures, maybe, mabe not! Man made climate change, maybe maybe not! Is there are 'truth' in any of these? depends on who you believe. What is true and indisputable, is that the 'old' methods of generating electricity rely on finite resources or resources that the UK has no control over. Coal, Oil, Gas, Uranium are all running out. Yes there may be loads of gas through Fracking but it too one day will run out. So the real issue here is that we (UK plc) need to generate our own energy to guarantee our way of life and security. If we dont then the lights will go out one day. So we HAVE to look into alternative renewables. So this is not just about the cost of electricity as many opponents of wind, tidal, bio fuel power would have you believe. A balanced local, logical, sustainable, renewable energy policy is the only sensible way forward. If you dont support this, where do you believe we will get our power from in 10, 20, 50 years? Yes renewable energy technologies come at a price, but what price the alternatives?[/p][/quote]There is enough fossil fuel for mankind to incinerate itself. The challenge is to find ways in which, if at all, fossil fuels can be used without increasing greenhouse gases in the upper atmosphere. The expression "if at all" is used because we are signally failing to find ways of generating electricity that are economically sustainable ! UK Plc has to EARN a living. Hopefully the UN (and common sense) will ensure that survival of any nation does not depend upon aggression / robbery / exploitation - as it did in the "good old days". Viking raids worked for the Vikings ! Ebb Tide
  • Score: 2

5:34pm Thu 8 May 14

Townee says...

NIMBY's take note now the fight starts and I hope you will all switch your power off if you win.
NIMBY's take note now the fight starts and I hope you will all switch your power off if you win. Townee
  • Score: -10

6:05pm Thu 8 May 14

Ebb Tide says...

Townee wrote:
NIMBY's take note now the fight starts and I hope you will all switch your power off if you win.
It is hoped that the business case is persuasive. Have to await release of the 'evidence'.

Reference to a fight seems inappropriate : assuming Navitus is not wanting extravagant one-sided guarantees and their submission is clear and unequivocal about insuring the risks of any maritime incidents , associated losses to land based business activity and eventual comprehensive site restoration work after their proposed 'temporary fix' of a dubious problem.

The 'long term fix' (for substantially more than a decade or so) really does need to be found soon, if our children and their children need to be efficiently supplied with electricity.

Having seen something of the strength of the angry sea at Dawlish, the Navitus proposals will have to be very convincing before it is reasonable to put any money into actual structures in the English Channel.

Pure research is one thing - actual implementation is something else, especially with the anticipated budget (of unknown robustness) being so very large.
[quote][p][bold]Townee[/bold] wrote: NIMBY's take note now the fight starts and I hope you will all switch your power off if you win.[/p][/quote]It is hoped that the business case is persuasive. Have to await release of the 'evidence'. Reference to a fight seems inappropriate : assuming Navitus is not wanting extravagant one-sided guarantees and their submission is clear and unequivocal about insuring the risks of any maritime incidents , associated losses to land based business activity and eventual comprehensive site restoration work after their proposed 'temporary fix' of a dubious problem. The 'long term fix' (for substantially more than a decade or so) really does need to be found soon, if our children and their children need to be efficiently supplied with electricity. Having seen something of the strength of the angry sea at Dawlish, the Navitus proposals will have to be very convincing before it is reasonable to put any money into actual structures in the English Channel. Pure research is one thing - actual implementation is something else, especially with the anticipated budget (of unknown robustness) being so very large. Ebb Tide
  • Score: 8

8:51pm Thu 8 May 14

High Treason says...

They are only building wind farms because they are subsidised by us. The building, installation, maintenance costs do not cover the expected amount generated by the wind. In 20 years time they will be left to rot away because no money is being made. France sells us electricity because they had the sense to build nuclear.
They are only building wind farms because they are subsidised by us. The building, installation, maintenance costs do not cover the expected amount generated by the wind. In 20 years time they will be left to rot away because no money is being made. France sells us electricity because they had the sense to build nuclear. High Treason
  • Score: 10

10:01pm Thu 8 May 14

Purpledeley says...

The are an ugly eyesore which will affect our tourist industry, our marine and bird life and will be noisy. They will cost a fortune to build which will take years to get any money back from and then will probably brake and not get repaired and become a flop just like the surf reef.
The are an ugly eyesore which will affect our tourist industry, our marine and bird life and will be noisy. They will cost a fortune to build which will take years to get any money back from and then will probably brake and not get repaired and become a flop just like the surf reef. Purpledeley
  • Score: 1

10:28pm Thu 8 May 14

muscliffman says...

nobodyexpectedthat wrote:
Rising temperatures, maybe, mabe not!
Man made climate change, maybe maybe not!

Is there are 'truth' in any of these? depends on who you believe.

What is true and indisputable, is that the 'old' methods of generating electricity rely on finite resources or resources that the UK has no control over. Coal, Oil, Gas, Uranium are all running out. Yes there may be loads of gas through Fracking but it too one day will run out.

So the real issue here is that we (UK plc) need to generate our own energy to guarantee our way of life and security. If we dont then the lights will go out one day.

So we HAVE to look into alternative renewables. So this is not just about the cost of electricity as many opponents of wind, tidal, bio fuel power would have you believe.

A balanced local, logical, sustainable, renewable energy policy is the only sensible way forward. If you dont support this, where do you believe we will get our power from in 10, 20, 50 years?

Yes renewable energy technologies come at a price, but what price the alternatives?
You say " 'old' methods of generating electricity rely on finite resources or resources that the UK has no control over. Coal, Oil, Gas, Uranium are all running out."

Actually we can if we wish have absolute control over most of these proven and reliable methods of generating UK electricity, because they exist within the UK in quantities capable of satisfying our own energy needs for hundreds of years - and that is if we don't find any more vast coal deposits just off our coast on the scale of the one very recently confirmed under the North Sea.

Hopefully by the time these huge combined UK resources of shale gas, coal and nuclear fuel remotely approach 'running out' in many generations time they will have long discovered far better ways to convert other natural energy into electricity. Whilst the one thing we can all completely depend upon - providing common sense is restored to this matter- is that these methods will NOT include wind power!
[quote][p][bold]nobodyexpectedthat[/bold] wrote: Rising temperatures, maybe, mabe not! Man made climate change, maybe maybe not! Is there are 'truth' in any of these? depends on who you believe. What is true and indisputable, is that the 'old' methods of generating electricity rely on finite resources or resources that the UK has no control over. Coal, Oil, Gas, Uranium are all running out. Yes there may be loads of gas through Fracking but it too one day will run out. So the real issue here is that we (UK plc) need to generate our own energy to guarantee our way of life and security. If we dont then the lights will go out one day. So we HAVE to look into alternative renewables. So this is not just about the cost of electricity as many opponents of wind, tidal, bio fuel power would have you believe. A balanced local, logical, sustainable, renewable energy policy is the only sensible way forward. If you dont support this, where do you believe we will get our power from in 10, 20, 50 years? Yes renewable energy technologies come at a price, but what price the alternatives?[/p][/quote]You say " 'old' methods of generating electricity rely on finite resources or resources that the UK has no control over. Coal, Oil, Gas, Uranium are all running out." Actually we can if we wish have absolute control over most of these proven and reliable methods of generating UK electricity, because they exist within the UK in quantities capable of satisfying our own energy needs for hundreds of years - and that is if we don't find any more vast coal deposits just off our coast on the scale of the one very recently confirmed under the North Sea. Hopefully by the time these huge combined UK resources of shale gas, coal and nuclear fuel remotely approach 'running out' in many generations time they will have long discovered far better ways to convert other natural energy into electricity. Whilst the one thing we can all completely depend upon - providing common sense is restored to this matter- is that these methods will NOT include wind power! muscliffman
  • Score: 7

5:57am Fri 9 May 14

yet_another_one says...

muscliffman wrote:
nobodyexpectedthat wrote:
Rising temperatures, maybe, mabe not!
Man made climate change, maybe maybe not!

Is there are 'truth' in any of these? depends on who you believe.

What is true and indisputable, is that the 'old' methods of generating electricity rely on finite resources or resources that the UK has no control over. Coal, Oil, Gas, Uranium are all running out. Yes there may be loads of gas through Fracking but it too one day will run out.

So the real issue here is that we (UK plc) need to generate our own energy to guarantee our way of life and security. If we dont then the lights will go out one day.

So we HAVE to look into alternative renewables. So this is not just about the cost of electricity as many opponents of wind, tidal, bio fuel power would have you believe.

A balanced local, logical, sustainable, renewable energy policy is the only sensible way forward. If you dont support this, where do you believe we will get our power from in 10, 20, 50 years?

Yes renewable energy technologies come at a price, but what price the alternatives?
You say " 'old' methods of generating electricity rely on finite resources or resources that the UK has no control over. Coal, Oil, Gas, Uranium are all running out."

Actually we can if we wish have absolute control over most of these proven and reliable methods of generating UK electricity, because they exist within the UK in quantities capable of satisfying our own energy needs for hundreds of years - and that is if we don't find any more vast coal deposits just off our coast on the scale of the one very recently confirmed under the North Sea.

Hopefully by the time these huge combined UK resources of shale gas, coal and nuclear fuel remotely approach 'running out' in many generations time they will have long discovered far better ways to convert other natural energy into electricity. Whilst the one thing we can all completely depend upon - providing common sense is restored to this matter- is that these methods will NOT include wind power!
We simply cannot allow those responsible for making decisions to sit on their backsides for too long. It is a travesty this happens in the UK & a reason why we, as a nation, are falling behind the rest of the world.
For example, take a look at our road building/improvement program - by the time the roads are built traffic exceeds that anticipated & the end product is far worse than the original case was meant to solve. Absolutely ridiculous.
We can only hope the lights will not go out before any measure to make us more self sufficient gets built. After all, we do not want to be held to ransom by this eastern block mess over gas pipeline & supply because that will cost us dear in time.
On fossil fuels, we do not have a store for hundreds of years - we should think clearly & move fast before our future generations are affected by too much dilly dallying.
[quote][p][bold]muscliffman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]nobodyexpectedthat[/bold] wrote: Rising temperatures, maybe, mabe not! Man made climate change, maybe maybe not! Is there are 'truth' in any of these? depends on who you believe. What is true and indisputable, is that the 'old' methods of generating electricity rely on finite resources or resources that the UK has no control over. Coal, Oil, Gas, Uranium are all running out. Yes there may be loads of gas through Fracking but it too one day will run out. So the real issue here is that we (UK plc) need to generate our own energy to guarantee our way of life and security. If we dont then the lights will go out one day. So we HAVE to look into alternative renewables. So this is not just about the cost of electricity as many opponents of wind, tidal, bio fuel power would have you believe. A balanced local, logical, sustainable, renewable energy policy is the only sensible way forward. If you dont support this, where do you believe we will get our power from in 10, 20, 50 years? Yes renewable energy technologies come at a price, but what price the alternatives?[/p][/quote]You say " 'old' methods of generating electricity rely on finite resources or resources that the UK has no control over. Coal, Oil, Gas, Uranium are all running out." Actually we can if we wish have absolute control over most of these proven and reliable methods of generating UK electricity, because they exist within the UK in quantities capable of satisfying our own energy needs for hundreds of years - and that is if we don't find any more vast coal deposits just off our coast on the scale of the one very recently confirmed under the North Sea. Hopefully by the time these huge combined UK resources of shale gas, coal and nuclear fuel remotely approach 'running out' in many generations time they will have long discovered far better ways to convert other natural energy into electricity. Whilst the one thing we can all completely depend upon - providing common sense is restored to this matter- is that these methods will NOT include wind power![/p][/quote]We simply cannot allow those responsible for making decisions to sit on their backsides for too long. It is a travesty this happens in the UK & a reason why we, as a nation, are falling behind the rest of the world. For example, take a look at our road building/improvement program - by the time the roads are built traffic exceeds that anticipated & the end product is far worse than the original case was meant to solve. Absolutely ridiculous. We can only hope the lights will not go out before any measure to make us more self sufficient gets built. After all, we do not want to be held to ransom by this eastern block mess over gas pipeline & supply because that will cost us dear in time. On fossil fuels, we do not have a store for hundreds of years - we should think clearly & move fast before our future generations are affected by too much dilly dallying. yet_another_one
  • Score: -4

9:29am Fri 9 May 14

nobodyexpectedthat says...

For those on this thread that keep bashing renewables and promote the continued use of fossil fuels, this path is pure folly. However much you believe there may be in terms of known or to be discovered suplies of coal, oil or gas, the fact is they will one day run out. These dwindling resources will also be hotly 'fought' over by other nations so again its shere folly for UK plc to rely on these sources. Had it not occured to you either that particularly for oil, it is used as the main constituent for many other products so continuing to 'burn' it for power generation is also folly.

For those that keep harpng on about the high cost of Wind power, onshore or offshore, have you conveniently forgotten the huge (and to some extent, unknown) cost of nuclear power in terms of waste management and decommissioning, neither of which are built into the KW price for power generated this way. If we are talking about the merits or not of subsidising energy production, nuclear power would never have got off the ground.

Wind is sustainable, local, comparitively environmentally friendly - it may not be the cheapest now, but its completely logical and sensible for UK plc to invest in this energy technology to begin to balance our energy production and take control of our own energy destiny.
For those on this thread that keep bashing renewables and promote the continued use of fossil fuels, this path is pure folly. However much you believe there may be in terms of known or to be discovered suplies of coal, oil or gas, the fact is they will one day run out. These dwindling resources will also be hotly 'fought' over by other nations so again its shere folly for UK plc to rely on these sources. Had it not occured to you either that particularly for oil, it is used as the main constituent for many other products so continuing to 'burn' it for power generation is also folly. For those that keep harpng on about the high cost of Wind power, onshore or offshore, have you conveniently forgotten the huge (and to some extent, unknown) cost of nuclear power in terms of waste management and decommissioning, neither of which are built into the KW price for power generated this way. If we are talking about the merits or not of subsidising energy production, nuclear power would never have got off the ground. Wind is sustainable, local, comparitively environmentally friendly - it may not be the cheapest now, but its completely logical and sensible for UK plc to invest in this energy technology to begin to balance our energy production and take control of our own energy destiny. nobodyexpectedthat
  • Score: -5

10:05am Fri 9 May 14

muscliffman says...

yet_another_one wrote:
muscliffman wrote:
nobodyexpectedthat wrote:
Rising temperatures, maybe, mabe not!
Man made climate change, maybe maybe not!

Is there are 'truth' in any of these? depends on who you believe.

What is true and indisputable, is that the 'old' methods of generating electricity rely on finite resources or resources that the UK has no control over. Coal, Oil, Gas, Uranium are all running out. Yes there may be loads of gas through Fracking but it too one day will run out.

So the real issue here is that we (UK plc) need to generate our own energy to guarantee our way of life and security. If we dont then the lights will go out one day.

So we HAVE to look into alternative renewables. So this is not just about the cost of electricity as many opponents of wind, tidal, bio fuel power would have you believe.

A balanced local, logical, sustainable, renewable energy policy is the only sensible way forward. If you dont support this, where do you believe we will get our power from in 10, 20, 50 years?

Yes renewable energy technologies come at a price, but what price the alternatives?
You say " 'old' methods of generating electricity rely on finite resources or resources that the UK has no control over. Coal, Oil, Gas, Uranium are all running out."

Actually we can if we wish have absolute control over most of these proven and reliable methods of generating UK electricity, because they exist within the UK in quantities capable of satisfying our own energy needs for hundreds of years - and that is if we don't find any more vast coal deposits just off our coast on the scale of the one very recently confirmed under the North Sea.

Hopefully by the time these huge combined UK resources of shale gas, coal and nuclear fuel remotely approach 'running out' in many generations time they will have long discovered far better ways to convert other natural energy into electricity. Whilst the one thing we can all completely depend upon - providing common sense is restored to this matter- is that these methods will NOT include wind power!
We simply cannot allow those responsible for making decisions to sit on their backsides for too long. It is a travesty this happens in the UK & a reason why we, as a nation, are falling behind the rest of the world.
For example, take a look at our road building/improvement program - by the time the roads are built traffic exceeds that anticipated & the end product is far worse than the original case was meant to solve. Absolutely ridiculous.
We can only hope the lights will not go out before any measure to make us more self sufficient gets built. After all, we do not want to be held to ransom by this eastern block mess over gas pipeline & supply because that will cost us dear in time.
On fossil fuels, we do not have a store for hundreds of years - we should think clearly & move fast before our future generations are affected by too much dilly dallying.
You suggest "On fossil fuels, we do not have a store for hundreds of years" - says who, someone with a vested interest..........? Because we most certainly do!

It has always been accepted that we left hundreds of years worth of energy producing coal behind when we closed most of our mines in the 1980's - that decision was ultimately a purely economic one at the time. Since then we have developed many new inexpensive ways of extracting coal and have also discovered massive fresh coal reserves just off shore - plus of course huge quantities of shale gas. Latest estimates confirm that these two fossil fuels alone would keep the UK going with gas and electricity for over a thousand years - and I think that will do!

The only reason we are reaching a UK power crisis is because we are unquestionably following 'green' inspired EU programmes of decommissioning perfectly good oil, gas and coal fired UK power stations. Germany is among the first EU Countries to ignore this directive and is now actually building NEW coal fuelled power stations.

Cleanly used coal, gas and nuclear power generation is the common sense way forward for the UK, bringing both energy independence, security and renewed prosperity. We must not be diverted by very dubious politically fashionable 'green' causes and their financially motivated associates.
[quote][p][bold]yet_another_one[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]muscliffman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]nobodyexpectedthat[/bold] wrote: Rising temperatures, maybe, mabe not! Man made climate change, maybe maybe not! Is there are 'truth' in any of these? depends on who you believe. What is true and indisputable, is that the 'old' methods of generating electricity rely on finite resources or resources that the UK has no control over. Coal, Oil, Gas, Uranium are all running out. Yes there may be loads of gas through Fracking but it too one day will run out. So the real issue here is that we (UK plc) need to generate our own energy to guarantee our way of life and security. If we dont then the lights will go out one day. So we HAVE to look into alternative renewables. So this is not just about the cost of electricity as many opponents of wind, tidal, bio fuel power would have you believe. A balanced local, logical, sustainable, renewable energy policy is the only sensible way forward. If you dont support this, where do you believe we will get our power from in 10, 20, 50 years? Yes renewable energy technologies come at a price, but what price the alternatives?[/p][/quote]You say " 'old' methods of generating electricity rely on finite resources or resources that the UK has no control over. Coal, Oil, Gas, Uranium are all running out." Actually we can if we wish have absolute control over most of these proven and reliable methods of generating UK electricity, because they exist within the UK in quantities capable of satisfying our own energy needs for hundreds of years - and that is if we don't find any more vast coal deposits just off our coast on the scale of the one very recently confirmed under the North Sea. Hopefully by the time these huge combined UK resources of shale gas, coal and nuclear fuel remotely approach 'running out' in many generations time they will have long discovered far better ways to convert other natural energy into electricity. Whilst the one thing we can all completely depend upon - providing common sense is restored to this matter- is that these methods will NOT include wind power![/p][/quote]We simply cannot allow those responsible for making decisions to sit on their backsides for too long. It is a travesty this happens in the UK & a reason why we, as a nation, are falling behind the rest of the world. For example, take a look at our road building/improvement program - by the time the roads are built traffic exceeds that anticipated & the end product is far worse than the original case was meant to solve. Absolutely ridiculous. We can only hope the lights will not go out before any measure to make us more self sufficient gets built. After all, we do not want to be held to ransom by this eastern block mess over gas pipeline & supply because that will cost us dear in time. On fossil fuels, we do not have a store for hundreds of years - we should think clearly & move fast before our future generations are affected by too much dilly dallying.[/p][/quote]You suggest "On fossil fuels, we do not have a store for hundreds of years" - says who, someone with a vested interest..........? Because we most certainly do! It has always been accepted that we left hundreds of years worth of energy producing coal behind when we closed most of our mines in the 1980's - that decision was ultimately a purely economic one at the time. Since then we have developed many new inexpensive ways of extracting coal and have also discovered massive fresh coal reserves just off shore - plus of course huge quantities of shale gas. Latest estimates confirm that these two fossil fuels alone would keep the UK going with gas and electricity for over a thousand years - and I think that will do! The only reason we are reaching a UK power crisis is because we are unquestionably following 'green' inspired EU programmes of decommissioning perfectly good oil, gas and coal fired UK power stations. Germany is among the first EU Countries to ignore this directive and is now actually building NEW coal fuelled power stations. Cleanly used coal, gas and nuclear power generation is the common sense way forward for the UK, bringing both energy independence, security and renewed prosperity. We must not be diverted by very dubious politically fashionable 'green' causes and their financially motivated associates. muscliffman
  • Score: 7

10:54am Fri 9 May 14

nobodyexpectedthat says...

Muscliffman, you talk some sense but unfortunately you also spout alot of nonsense. How on earth can any reliance of nuclear power give the UK security or energy independance. I think you will find that the UK is not a producer of Uranium.

My contention all along is that the UK needs to BALANCE its energy production, not rely on one or even two fossil fuel sources. If, as you state, mining & prodcutoin techniques now make it so cost effective to mine coal / gas then why arent we doing it?

The last time I looked at any UK political commentary on renewables, it was hardly politically fashionable as you put it. Perhaps the reality is that is just makes sense and is the only logical way forward.

There is also a moral question which you have failed to consider - What right do we have as a generation to 'burn' our natural resources?

Claiming that the renewables brigade are financially motivated is a bit like the pot calling the kettle black. And you think the oil / coal / gas industry isnt financially motivated. Oh dear!
Muscliffman, you talk some sense but unfortunately you also spout alot of nonsense. How on earth can any reliance of nuclear power give the UK security or energy independance. I think you will find that the UK is not a producer of Uranium. My contention all along is that the UK needs to BALANCE its energy production, not rely on one or even two fossil fuel sources. If, as you state, mining & prodcutoin techniques now make it so cost effective to mine coal / gas then why arent we doing it? The last time I looked at any UK political commentary on renewables, it was hardly politically fashionable as you put it. Perhaps the reality is that is just makes sense and is the only logical way forward. There is also a moral question which you have failed to consider - What right do we have as a generation to 'burn' our natural resources? Claiming that the renewables brigade are financially motivated is a bit like the pot calling the kettle black. And you think the oil / coal / gas industry isnt financially motivated. Oh dear! nobodyexpectedthat
  • Score: -1

11:44am Fri 9 May 14

muscliffman says...

nobodyexpectedthat wrote:
Muscliffman, you talk some sense but unfortunately you also spout alot of nonsense. How on earth can any reliance of nuclear power give the UK security or energy independance. I think you will find that the UK is not a producer of Uranium.

My contention all along is that the UK needs to BALANCE its energy production, not rely on one or even two fossil fuel sources. If, as you state, mining & prodcutoin techniques now make it so cost effective to mine coal / gas then why arent we doing it?

The last time I looked at any UK political commentary on renewables, it was hardly politically fashionable as you put it. Perhaps the reality is that is just makes sense and is the only logical way forward.

There is also a moral question which you have failed to consider - What right do we have as a generation to 'burn' our natural resources?

Claiming that the renewables brigade are financially motivated is a bit like the pot calling the kettle black. And you think the oil / coal / gas industry isnt financially motivated. Oh dear!
Thanks for the response, but you rather confuse me as I have never suggested the UK become reliant nor 'independent' upon nuclear power, I simply believe it has a place in balanced combination (for now) alongside the fossil fuelled alternatives.

Of course the commercial undertakings producing energy are financially motivated, that only underlines the need to be very careful about what methods we support with public funding - it should be the most economically efficient, and that rules out wind farms from the start.

I am not sure how to answer the question 'what right.....' because taking it further, for example, what right do we have to eat today when others on this planet cannot.....so probably best to leave that one!
[quote][p][bold]nobodyexpectedthat[/bold] wrote: Muscliffman, you talk some sense but unfortunately you also spout alot of nonsense. How on earth can any reliance of nuclear power give the UK security or energy independance. I think you will find that the UK is not a producer of Uranium. My contention all along is that the UK needs to BALANCE its energy production, not rely on one or even two fossil fuel sources. If, as you state, mining & prodcutoin techniques now make it so cost effective to mine coal / gas then why arent we doing it? The last time I looked at any UK political commentary on renewables, it was hardly politically fashionable as you put it. Perhaps the reality is that is just makes sense and is the only logical way forward. There is also a moral question which you have failed to consider - What right do we have as a generation to 'burn' our natural resources? Claiming that the renewables brigade are financially motivated is a bit like the pot calling the kettle black. And you think the oil / coal / gas industry isnt financially motivated. Oh dear![/p][/quote]Thanks for the response, but you rather confuse me as I have never suggested the UK become reliant nor 'independent' upon nuclear power, I simply believe it has a place in balanced combination (for now) alongside the fossil fuelled alternatives. Of course the commercial undertakings producing energy are financially motivated, that only underlines the need to be very careful about what methods we support with public funding - it should be the most economically efficient, and that rules out wind farms from the start. I am not sure how to answer the question 'what right.....' because taking it further, for example, what right do we have to eat today when others on this planet cannot.....so probably best to leave that one! muscliffman
  • Score: 2

11:50am Fri 9 May 14

a.g.o.g. says...

yet_another_one wrote:
muscliffman wrote:
nobodyexpectedthat wrote:
Rising temperatures, maybe, mabe not!
Man made climate change, maybe maybe not!

Is there are 'truth' in any of these? depends on who you believe.

What is true and indisputable, is that the 'old' methods of generating electricity rely on finite resources or resources that the UK has no control over. Coal, Oil, Gas, Uranium are all running out. Yes there may be loads of gas through Fracking but it too one day will run out.

So the real issue here is that we (UK plc) need to generate our own energy to guarantee our way of life and security. If we dont then the lights will go out one day.

So we HAVE to look into alternative renewables. So this is not just about the cost of electricity as many opponents of wind, tidal, bio fuel power would have you believe.

A balanced local, logical, sustainable, renewable energy policy is the only sensible way forward. If you dont support this, where do you believe we will get our power from in 10, 20, 50 years?

Yes renewable energy technologies come at a price, but what price the alternatives?
You say " 'old' methods of generating electricity rely on finite resources or resources that the UK has no control over. Coal, Oil, Gas, Uranium are all running out."

Actually we can if we wish have absolute control over most of these proven and reliable methods of generating UK electricity, because they exist within the UK in quantities capable of satisfying our own energy needs for hundreds of years - and that is if we don't find any more vast coal deposits just off our coast on the scale of the one very recently confirmed under the North Sea.

Hopefully by the time these huge combined UK resources of shale gas, coal and nuclear fuel remotely approach 'running out' in many generations time they will have long discovered far better ways to convert other natural energy into electricity. Whilst the one thing we can all completely depend upon - providing common sense is restored to this matter- is that these methods will NOT include wind power!
We simply cannot allow those responsible for making decisions to sit on their backsides for too long. It is a travesty this happens in the UK & a reason why we, as a nation, are falling behind the rest of the world.
For example, take a look at our road building/improvement program - by the time the roads are built traffic exceeds that anticipated & the end product is far worse than the original case was meant to solve. Absolutely ridiculous.
We can only hope the lights will not go out before any measure to make us more self sufficient gets built. After all, we do not want to be held to ransom by this eastern block mess over gas pipeline & supply because that will cost us dear in time.
On fossil fuels, we do not have a store for hundreds of years - we should think clearly & move fast before our future generations are affected by too much dilly dallying.
We are far more reliant upon fossil fuel for transport than power and this Nation simply cannot afford to triple its power supply costs under the spurious argument that the fuel is running out.....we have to ``Go with The Flow`` of cheapest energy available or start wearing flowers again!
[quote][p][bold]yet_another_one[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]muscliffman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]nobodyexpectedthat[/bold] wrote: Rising temperatures, maybe, mabe not! Man made climate change, maybe maybe not! Is there are 'truth' in any of these? depends on who you believe. What is true and indisputable, is that the 'old' methods of generating electricity rely on finite resources or resources that the UK has no control over. Coal, Oil, Gas, Uranium are all running out. Yes there may be loads of gas through Fracking but it too one day will run out. So the real issue here is that we (UK plc) need to generate our own energy to guarantee our way of life and security. If we dont then the lights will go out one day. So we HAVE to look into alternative renewables. So this is not just about the cost of electricity as many opponents of wind, tidal, bio fuel power would have you believe. A balanced local, logical, sustainable, renewable energy policy is the only sensible way forward. If you dont support this, where do you believe we will get our power from in 10, 20, 50 years? Yes renewable energy technologies come at a price, but what price the alternatives?[/p][/quote]You say " 'old' methods of generating electricity rely on finite resources or resources that the UK has no control over. Coal, Oil, Gas, Uranium are all running out." Actually we can if we wish have absolute control over most of these proven and reliable methods of generating UK electricity, because they exist within the UK in quantities capable of satisfying our own energy needs for hundreds of years - and that is if we don't find any more vast coal deposits just off our coast on the scale of the one very recently confirmed under the North Sea. Hopefully by the time these huge combined UK resources of shale gas, coal and nuclear fuel remotely approach 'running out' in many generations time they will have long discovered far better ways to convert other natural energy into electricity. Whilst the one thing we can all completely depend upon - providing common sense is restored to this matter- is that these methods will NOT include wind power![/p][/quote]We simply cannot allow those responsible for making decisions to sit on their backsides for too long. It is a travesty this happens in the UK & a reason why we, as a nation, are falling behind the rest of the world. For example, take a look at our road building/improvement program - by the time the roads are built traffic exceeds that anticipated & the end product is far worse than the original case was meant to solve. Absolutely ridiculous. We can only hope the lights will not go out before any measure to make us more self sufficient gets built. After all, we do not want to be held to ransom by this eastern block mess over gas pipeline & supply because that will cost us dear in time. On fossil fuels, we do not have a store for hundreds of years - we should think clearly & move fast before our future generations are affected by too much dilly dallying.[/p][/quote]We are far more reliant upon fossil fuel for transport than power and this Nation simply cannot afford to triple its power supply costs under the spurious argument that the fuel is running out.....we have to ``Go with The Flow`` of cheapest energy available or start wearing flowers again! a.g.o.g.
  • Score: 2

11:56am Fri 9 May 14

yet_another_one says...

muscliffman wrote:
yet_another_one wrote:
muscliffman wrote:
nobodyexpectedthat wrote:
Rising temperatures, maybe, mabe not!
Man made climate change, maybe maybe not!

Is there are 'truth' in any of these? depends on who you believe.

What is true and indisputable, is that the 'old' methods of generating electricity rely on finite resources or resources that the UK has no control over. Coal, Oil, Gas, Uranium are all running out. Yes there may be loads of gas through Fracking but it too one day will run out.

So the real issue here is that we (UK plc) need to generate our own energy to guarantee our way of life and security. If we dont then the lights will go out one day.

So we HAVE to look into alternative renewables. So this is not just about the cost of electricity as many opponents of wind, tidal, bio fuel power would have you believe.

A balanced local, logical, sustainable, renewable energy policy is the only sensible way forward. If you dont support this, where do you believe we will get our power from in 10, 20, 50 years?

Yes renewable energy technologies come at a price, but what price the alternatives?
You say " 'old' methods of generating electricity rely on finite resources or resources that the UK has no control over. Coal, Oil, Gas, Uranium are all running out."

Actually we can if we wish have absolute control over most of these proven and reliable methods of generating UK electricity, because they exist within the UK in quantities capable of satisfying our own energy needs for hundreds of years - and that is if we don't find any more vast coal deposits just off our coast on the scale of the one very recently confirmed under the North Sea.

Hopefully by the time these huge combined UK resources of shale gas, coal and nuclear fuel remotely approach 'running out' in many generations time they will have long discovered far better ways to convert other natural energy into electricity. Whilst the one thing we can all completely depend upon - providing common sense is restored to this matter- is that these methods will NOT include wind power!
We simply cannot allow those responsible for making decisions to sit on their backsides for too long. It is a travesty this happens in the UK & a reason why we, as a nation, are falling behind the rest of the world.
For example, take a look at our road building/improvement program - by the time the roads are built traffic exceeds that anticipated & the end product is far worse than the original case was meant to solve. Absolutely ridiculous.
We can only hope the lights will not go out before any measure to make us more self sufficient gets built. After all, we do not want to be held to ransom by this eastern block mess over gas pipeline & supply because that will cost us dear in time.
On fossil fuels, we do not have a store for hundreds of years - we should think clearly & move fast before our future generations are affected by too much dilly dallying.
You suggest "On fossil fuels, we do not have a store for hundreds of years" - says who, someone with a vested interest..........? Because we most certainly do!

It has always been accepted that we left hundreds of years worth of energy producing coal behind when we closed most of our mines in the 1980's - that decision was ultimately a purely economic one at the time. Since then we have developed many new inexpensive ways of extracting coal and have also discovered massive fresh coal reserves just off shore - plus of course huge quantities of shale gas. Latest estimates confirm that these two fossil fuels alone would keep the UK going with gas and electricity for over a thousand years - and I think that will do!

The only reason we are reaching a UK power crisis is because we are unquestionably following 'green' inspired EU programmes of decommissioning perfectly good oil, gas and coal fired UK power stations. Germany is among the first EU Countries to ignore this directive and is now actually building NEW coal fuelled power stations.

Cleanly used coal, gas and nuclear power generation is the common sense way forward for the UK, bringing both energy independence, security and renewed prosperity. We must not be diverted by very dubious politically fashionable 'green' causes and their financially motivated associates.
Thatcher, in her infinite wisdom, declared coal from British coal fields was not of the correct calorific value & therefore could not be used to generate energy.
We all realise she was having a war with the NUM & Arthur Scargill in particular but why then state absolute untruths & rubbish - I guess that's politicians for you & I wouldn't trust any of them regardless of which side they are batting for.
The fact is the coal board has & is now shutting down most or nearly all coal mines in the UK because they are not economic to run.
So, if we were to extract all this coal at such massive cost, we'll have another problem with old people dying from hypothermia because the cost to produce energy will be so high & these people will not be able to heat their own homes..
Utilising natural resource such as wind, tidal or solar panels to produce energy is a sensible solution.
By the way, Germany has moved away from nuclear powered reactors in favour of renewable energy, the investments being made there is many fold more times than what is happening here in the UK & shame on those here for not being more responsible.
[quote][p][bold]muscliffman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]yet_another_one[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]muscliffman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]nobodyexpectedthat[/bold] wrote: Rising temperatures, maybe, mabe not! Man made climate change, maybe maybe not! Is there are 'truth' in any of these? depends on who you believe. What is true and indisputable, is that the 'old' methods of generating electricity rely on finite resources or resources that the UK has no control over. Coal, Oil, Gas, Uranium are all running out. Yes there may be loads of gas through Fracking but it too one day will run out. So the real issue here is that we (UK plc) need to generate our own energy to guarantee our way of life and security. If we dont then the lights will go out one day. So we HAVE to look into alternative renewables. So this is not just about the cost of electricity as many opponents of wind, tidal, bio fuel power would have you believe. A balanced local, logical, sustainable, renewable energy policy is the only sensible way forward. If you dont support this, where do you believe we will get our power from in 10, 20, 50 years? Yes renewable energy technologies come at a price, but what price the alternatives?[/p][/quote]You say " 'old' methods of generating electricity rely on finite resources or resources that the UK has no control over. Coal, Oil, Gas, Uranium are all running out." Actually we can if we wish have absolute control over most of these proven and reliable methods of generating UK electricity, because they exist within the UK in quantities capable of satisfying our own energy needs for hundreds of years - and that is if we don't find any more vast coal deposits just off our coast on the scale of the one very recently confirmed under the North Sea. Hopefully by the time these huge combined UK resources of shale gas, coal and nuclear fuel remotely approach 'running out' in many generations time they will have long discovered far better ways to convert other natural energy into electricity. Whilst the one thing we can all completely depend upon - providing common sense is restored to this matter- is that these methods will NOT include wind power![/p][/quote]We simply cannot allow those responsible for making decisions to sit on their backsides for too long. It is a travesty this happens in the UK & a reason why we, as a nation, are falling behind the rest of the world. For example, take a look at our road building/improvement program - by the time the roads are built traffic exceeds that anticipated & the end product is far worse than the original case was meant to solve. Absolutely ridiculous. We can only hope the lights will not go out before any measure to make us more self sufficient gets built. After all, we do not want to be held to ransom by this eastern block mess over gas pipeline & supply because that will cost us dear in time. On fossil fuels, we do not have a store for hundreds of years - we should think clearly & move fast before our future generations are affected by too much dilly dallying.[/p][/quote]You suggest "On fossil fuels, we do not have a store for hundreds of years" - says who, someone with a vested interest..........? Because we most certainly do! It has always been accepted that we left hundreds of years worth of energy producing coal behind when we closed most of our mines in the 1980's - that decision was ultimately a purely economic one at the time. Since then we have developed many new inexpensive ways of extracting coal and have also discovered massive fresh coal reserves just off shore - plus of course huge quantities of shale gas. Latest estimates confirm that these two fossil fuels alone would keep the UK going with gas and electricity for over a thousand years - and I think that will do! The only reason we are reaching a UK power crisis is because we are unquestionably following 'green' inspired EU programmes of decommissioning perfectly good oil, gas and coal fired UK power stations. Germany is among the first EU Countries to ignore this directive and is now actually building NEW coal fuelled power stations. Cleanly used coal, gas and nuclear power generation is the common sense way forward for the UK, bringing both energy independence, security and renewed prosperity. We must not be diverted by very dubious politically fashionable 'green' causes and their financially motivated associates.[/p][/quote]Thatcher, in her infinite wisdom, declared coal from British coal fields was not of the correct calorific value & therefore could not be used to generate energy. We all realise she was having a war with the NUM & Arthur Scargill in particular but why then state absolute untruths & rubbish - I guess that's politicians for you & I wouldn't trust any of them regardless of which side they are batting for. The fact is the coal board has & is now shutting down most or nearly all coal mines in the UK because they are not economic to run. So, if we were to extract all this coal at such massive cost, we'll have another problem with old people dying from hypothermia because the cost to produce energy will be so high & these people will not be able to heat their own homes.. Utilising natural resource such as wind, tidal or solar panels to produce energy is a sensible solution. By the way, Germany has moved away from nuclear powered reactors in favour of renewable energy, the investments being made there is many fold more times than what is happening here in the UK & shame on those here for not being more responsible. yet_another_one
  • Score: -2

11:59am Fri 9 May 14

nobodyexpectedthat says...

Muscliffman,

You said " Cleanly used ...... nuclear power generation is the common sense way forward for the UK, bringing both energy independence,"

clearly nuclear power is not 'independant for the UKas we do not mine Uranium, but have to buy it in from elsewhere in the world - not at all secure!

My point is that economics are not and should not be the only consideration - if that were the case there would be no single nuclear power generating reactor anywhere in the world (I studiesdat Univeristy and specialised in UK energy production)

My point about morality, is that we continue to use - some might argue squander, our natural resources when there are alternative technologies that might help reduce our reliance on fossil fuels.

These technologies including wind, solar, tidal , biofuel, are all sustainable and all could be completely under our control delivering local , secure solutions. They are also generally far greener than burning fossile fuels, however clean that process might be (debateable).

Just knocking Wind because its expensive or subsidised is a complete red herring. Its sustainable, it works and it is clean.

There is no logical argument against it - the only one would be that it doesnt generate electricity - which it does and can and potentially in abundance forever!
Muscliffman, You said " Cleanly used ...... nuclear power generation is the common sense way forward for the UK, bringing both energy independence," clearly nuclear power is not 'independant for the UKas we do not mine Uranium, but have to buy it in from elsewhere in the world - not at all secure! My point is that economics are not and should not be the only consideration - if that were the case there would be no single nuclear power generating reactor anywhere in the world (I studiesdat Univeristy and specialised in UK energy production) My point about morality, is that we continue to use - some might argue squander, our natural resources when there are alternative technologies that might help reduce our reliance on fossil fuels. These technologies including wind, solar, tidal , biofuel, are all sustainable and all could be completely under our control delivering local , secure solutions. They are also generally far greener than burning fossile fuels, however clean that process might be (debateable). Just knocking Wind because its expensive or subsidised is a complete red herring. Its sustainable, it works and it is clean. There is no logical argument against it - the only one would be that it doesnt generate electricity - which it does and can and potentially in abundance forever! nobodyexpectedthat
  • Score: -2

12:37pm Fri 9 May 14

muscliffman says...

nobodyexpectedthat wrote:
Muscliffman,

You said " Cleanly used ...... nuclear power generation is the common sense way forward for the UK, bringing both energy independence,"

clearly nuclear power is not 'independant for the UKas we do not mine Uranium, but have to buy it in from elsewhere in the world - not at all secure!

My point is that economics are not and should not be the only consideration - if that were the case there would be no single nuclear power generating reactor anywhere in the world (I studiesdat Univeristy and specialised in UK energy production)

My point about morality, is that we continue to use - some might argue squander, our natural resources when there are alternative technologies that might help reduce our reliance on fossil fuels.

These technologies including wind, solar, tidal , biofuel, are all sustainable and all could be completely under our control delivering local , secure solutions. They are also generally far greener than burning fossile fuels, however clean that process might be (debateable).

Just knocking Wind because its expensive or subsidised is a complete red herring. Its sustainable, it works and it is clean.

There is no logical argument against it - the only one would be that it doesnt generate electricity - which it does and can and potentially in abundance forever!
Hang on a moment, are you a budding politician?(!), I said "Cleanly used coal, gas and nuclear power generation is the common sense way" you cannot just remove key words from the middle of sentences and then argue about the only bits left!
[quote][p][bold]nobodyexpectedthat[/bold] wrote: Muscliffman, You said " Cleanly used ...... nuclear power generation is the common sense way forward for the UK, bringing both energy independence," clearly nuclear power is not 'independant for the UKas we do not mine Uranium, but have to buy it in from elsewhere in the world - not at all secure! My point is that economics are not and should not be the only consideration - if that were the case there would be no single nuclear power generating reactor anywhere in the world (I studiesdat Univeristy and specialised in UK energy production) My point about morality, is that we continue to use - some might argue squander, our natural resources when there are alternative technologies that might help reduce our reliance on fossil fuels. These technologies including wind, solar, tidal , biofuel, are all sustainable and all could be completely under our control delivering local , secure solutions. They are also generally far greener than burning fossile fuels, however clean that process might be (debateable). Just knocking Wind because its expensive or subsidised is a complete red herring. Its sustainable, it works and it is clean. There is no logical argument against it - the only one would be that it doesnt generate electricity - which it does and can and potentially in abundance forever![/p][/quote]Hang on a moment, are you a budding politician?(!), I said "Cleanly used coal, gas and nuclear power generation is the common sense way" you cannot just remove key words from the middle of sentences and then argue about the only bits left! muscliffman
  • Score: 2

9:07pm Sat 10 May 14

Phixer says...

yet_another_one wrote:
muscliffman wrote:
yet_another_one wrote:
muscliffman wrote:
nobodyexpectedthat wrote:
Rising temperatures, maybe, mabe not!
Man made climate change, maybe maybe not!

Is there are 'truth' in any of these? depends on who you believe.

What is true and indisputable, is that the 'old' methods of generating electricity rely on finite resources or resources that the UK has no control over. Coal, Oil, Gas, Uranium are all running out. Yes there may be loads of gas through Fracking but it too one day will run out.

So the real issue here is that we (UK plc) need to generate our own energy to guarantee our way of life and security. If we dont then the lights will go out one day.

So we HAVE to look into alternative renewables. So this is not just about the cost of electricity as many opponents of wind, tidal, bio fuel power would have you believe.

A balanced local, logical, sustainable, renewable energy policy is the only sensible way forward. If you dont support this, where do you believe we will get our power from in 10, 20, 50 years?

Yes renewable energy technologies come at a price, but what price the alternatives?
You say " 'old' methods of generating electricity rely on finite resources or resources that the UK has no control over. Coal, Oil, Gas, Uranium are all running out."

Actually we can if we wish have absolute control over most of these proven and reliable methods of generating UK electricity, because they exist within the UK in quantities capable of satisfying our own energy needs for hundreds of years - and that is if we don't find any more vast coal deposits just off our coast on the scale of the one very recently confirmed under the North Sea.

Hopefully by the time these huge combined UK resources of shale gas, coal and nuclear fuel remotely approach 'running out' in many generations time they will have long discovered far better ways to convert other natural energy into electricity. Whilst the one thing we can all completely depend upon - providing common sense is restored to this matter- is that these methods will NOT include wind power!
We simply cannot allow those responsible for making decisions to sit on their backsides for too long. It is a travesty this happens in the UK & a reason why we, as a nation, are falling behind the rest of the world.
For example, take a look at our road building/improvement program - by the time the roads are built traffic exceeds that anticipated & the end product is far worse than the original case was meant to solve. Absolutely ridiculous.
We can only hope the lights will not go out before any measure to make us more self sufficient gets built. After all, we do not want to be held to ransom by this eastern block mess over gas pipeline & supply because that will cost us dear in time.
On fossil fuels, we do not have a store for hundreds of years - we should think clearly & move fast before our future generations are affected by too much dilly dallying.
You suggest "On fossil fuels, we do not have a store for hundreds of years" - says who, someone with a vested interest..........? Because we most certainly do!

It has always been accepted that we left hundreds of years worth of energy producing coal behind when we closed most of our mines in the 1980's - that decision was ultimately a purely economic one at the time. Since then we have developed many new inexpensive ways of extracting coal and have also discovered massive fresh coal reserves just off shore - plus of course huge quantities of shale gas. Latest estimates confirm that these two fossil fuels alone would keep the UK going with gas and electricity for over a thousand years - and I think that will do!

The only reason we are reaching a UK power crisis is because we are unquestionably following 'green' inspired EU programmes of decommissioning perfectly good oil, gas and coal fired UK power stations. Germany is among the first EU Countries to ignore this directive and is now actually building NEW coal fuelled power stations.

Cleanly used coal, gas and nuclear power generation is the common sense way forward for the UK, bringing both energy independence, security and renewed prosperity. We must not be diverted by very dubious politically fashionable 'green' causes and their financially motivated associates.
Thatcher, in her infinite wisdom, declared coal from British coal fields was not of the correct calorific value & therefore could not be used to generate energy.
We all realise she was having a war with the NUM & Arthur Scargill in particular but why then state absolute untruths & rubbish - I guess that's politicians for you & I wouldn't trust any of them regardless of which side they are batting for.
The fact is the coal board has & is now shutting down most or nearly all coal mines in the UK because they are not economic to run.
So, if we were to extract all this coal at such massive cost, we'll have another problem with old people dying from hypothermia because the cost to produce energy will be so high & these people will not be able to heat their own homes..
Utilising natural resource such as wind, tidal or solar panels to produce energy is a sensible solution.
By the way, Germany has moved away from nuclear powered reactors in favour of renewable energy, the investments being made there is many fold more times than what is happening here in the UK & shame on those here for not being more responsible.
Wilson closed more coal mines than did Thatcher. For those who are critical of Thatcher, are you willing to resign your present job and become a miner?

No, thought not.

It is EU diktats being followed by the UK that is causing us problems - and which the Germans are beginning to ignore.

I wouldn't have a problem with the visual impact of wind turbines off-shore. No doubt people complained when windmills were first built until they became an accepted part of our landscape.

What I do object to is having my bank accounts emptied because of the corruption by the energy companies and companies such as Navitas who are only interested in paying dividends to their shareholders - and don't give a **** how much you/me/our neighbours and pensioners have to suffer financially.
[quote][p][bold]yet_another_one[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]muscliffman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]yet_another_one[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]muscliffman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]nobodyexpectedthat[/bold] wrote: Rising temperatures, maybe, mabe not! Man made climate change, maybe maybe not! Is there are 'truth' in any of these? depends on who you believe. What is true and indisputable, is that the 'old' methods of generating electricity rely on finite resources or resources that the UK has no control over. Coal, Oil, Gas, Uranium are all running out. Yes there may be loads of gas through Fracking but it too one day will run out. So the real issue here is that we (UK plc) need to generate our own energy to guarantee our way of life and security. If we dont then the lights will go out one day. So we HAVE to look into alternative renewables. So this is not just about the cost of electricity as many opponents of wind, tidal, bio fuel power would have you believe. A balanced local, logical, sustainable, renewable energy policy is the only sensible way forward. If you dont support this, where do you believe we will get our power from in 10, 20, 50 years? Yes renewable energy technologies come at a price, but what price the alternatives?[/p][/quote]You say " 'old' methods of generating electricity rely on finite resources or resources that the UK has no control over. Coal, Oil, Gas, Uranium are all running out." Actually we can if we wish have absolute control over most of these proven and reliable methods of generating UK electricity, because they exist within the UK in quantities capable of satisfying our own energy needs for hundreds of years - and that is if we don't find any more vast coal deposits just off our coast on the scale of the one very recently confirmed under the North Sea. Hopefully by the time these huge combined UK resources of shale gas, coal and nuclear fuel remotely approach 'running out' in many generations time they will have long discovered far better ways to convert other natural energy into electricity. Whilst the one thing we can all completely depend upon - providing common sense is restored to this matter- is that these methods will NOT include wind power![/p][/quote]We simply cannot allow those responsible for making decisions to sit on their backsides for too long. It is a travesty this happens in the UK & a reason why we, as a nation, are falling behind the rest of the world. For example, take a look at our road building/improvement program - by the time the roads are built traffic exceeds that anticipated & the end product is far worse than the original case was meant to solve. Absolutely ridiculous. We can only hope the lights will not go out before any measure to make us more self sufficient gets built. After all, we do not want to be held to ransom by this eastern block mess over gas pipeline & supply because that will cost us dear in time. On fossil fuels, we do not have a store for hundreds of years - we should think clearly & move fast before our future generations are affected by too much dilly dallying.[/p][/quote]You suggest "On fossil fuels, we do not have a store for hundreds of years" - says who, someone with a vested interest..........? Because we most certainly do! It has always been accepted that we left hundreds of years worth of energy producing coal behind when we closed most of our mines in the 1980's - that decision was ultimately a purely economic one at the time. Since then we have developed many new inexpensive ways of extracting coal and have also discovered massive fresh coal reserves just off shore - plus of course huge quantities of shale gas. Latest estimates confirm that these two fossil fuels alone would keep the UK going with gas and electricity for over a thousand years - and I think that will do! The only reason we are reaching a UK power crisis is because we are unquestionably following 'green' inspired EU programmes of decommissioning perfectly good oil, gas and coal fired UK power stations. Germany is among the first EU Countries to ignore this directive and is now actually building NEW coal fuelled power stations. Cleanly used coal, gas and nuclear power generation is the common sense way forward for the UK, bringing both energy independence, security and renewed prosperity. We must not be diverted by very dubious politically fashionable 'green' causes and their financially motivated associates.[/p][/quote]Thatcher, in her infinite wisdom, declared coal from British coal fields was not of the correct calorific value & therefore could not be used to generate energy. We all realise she was having a war with the NUM & Arthur Scargill in particular but why then state absolute untruths & rubbish - I guess that's politicians for you & I wouldn't trust any of them regardless of which side they are batting for. The fact is the coal board has & is now shutting down most or nearly all coal mines in the UK because they are not economic to run. So, if we were to extract all this coal at such massive cost, we'll have another problem with old people dying from hypothermia because the cost to produce energy will be so high & these people will not be able to heat their own homes.. Utilising natural resource such as wind, tidal or solar panels to produce energy is a sensible solution. By the way, Germany has moved away from nuclear powered reactors in favour of renewable energy, the investments being made there is many fold more times than what is happening here in the UK & shame on those here for not being more responsible.[/p][/quote]Wilson closed more coal mines than did Thatcher. For those who are critical of Thatcher, are you willing to resign your present job and become a miner? No, thought not. It is EU diktats being followed by the UK that is causing us problems - and which the Germans are beginning to ignore. I wouldn't have a problem with the visual impact of wind turbines off-shore. No doubt people complained when windmills were first built until they became an accepted part of our landscape. What I do object to is having my bank accounts emptied because of the corruption by the energy companies and companies such as Navitas who are only interested in paying dividends to their shareholders - and don't give a **** how much you/me/our neighbours and pensioners have to suffer financially. Phixer
  • Score: 0

12:52pm Sun 11 May 14

Ebb Tide says...

Phixer wrote:
yet_another_one wrote:
muscliffman wrote:
yet_another_one wrote:
muscliffman wrote:
nobodyexpectedthat wrote:
Rising temperatures, maybe, mabe not!
Man made climate change, maybe maybe not!

Is there are 'truth' in any of these? depends on who you believe.

What is true and indisputable, is that the 'old' methods of generating electricity rely on finite resources or resources that the UK has no control over. Coal, Oil, Gas, Uranium are all running out. Yes there may be loads of gas through Fracking but it too one day will run out.

So the real issue here is that we (UK plc) need to generate our own energy to guarantee our way of life and security. If we dont then the lights will go out one day.

So we HAVE to look into alternative renewables. So this is not just about the cost of electricity as many opponents of wind, tidal, bio fuel power would have you believe.

A balanced local, logical, sustainable, renewable energy policy is the only sensible way forward. If you dont support this, where do you believe we will get our power from in 10, 20, 50 years?

Yes renewable energy technologies come at a price, but what price the alternatives?
You say " 'old' methods of generating electricity rely on finite resources or resources that the UK has no control over. Coal, Oil, Gas, Uranium are all running out."

Actually we can if we wish have absolute control over most of these proven and reliable methods of generating UK electricity, because they exist within the UK in quantities capable of satisfying our own energy needs for hundreds of years - and that is if we don't find any more vast coal deposits just off our coast on the scale of the one very recently confirmed under the North Sea.

Hopefully by the time these huge combined UK resources of shale gas, coal and nuclear fuel remotely approach 'running out' in many generations time they will have long discovered far better ways to convert other natural energy into electricity. Whilst the one thing we can all completely depend upon - providing common sense is restored to this matter- is that these methods will NOT include wind power!
We simply cannot allow those responsible for making decisions to sit on their backsides for too long. It is a travesty this happens in the UK & a reason why we, as a nation, are falling behind the rest of the world.
For example, take a look at our road building/improvement program - by the time the roads are built traffic exceeds that anticipated & the end product is far worse than the original case was meant to solve. Absolutely ridiculous.
We can only hope the lights will not go out before any measure to make us more self sufficient gets built. After all, we do not want to be held to ransom by this eastern block mess over gas pipeline & supply because that will cost us dear in time.
On fossil fuels, we do not have a store for hundreds of years - we should think clearly & move fast before our future generations are affected by too much dilly dallying.
You suggest "On fossil fuels, we do not have a store for hundreds of years" - says who, someone with a vested interest..........? Because we most certainly do!

It has always been accepted that we left hundreds of years worth of energy producing coal behind when we closed most of our mines in the 1980's - that decision was ultimately a purely economic one at the time. Since then we have developed many new inexpensive ways of extracting coal and have also discovered massive fresh coal reserves just off shore - plus of course huge quantities of shale gas. Latest estimates confirm that these two fossil fuels alone would keep the UK going with gas and electricity for over a thousand years - and I think that will do!

The only reason we are reaching a UK power crisis is because we are unquestionably following 'green' inspired EU programmes of decommissioning perfectly good oil, gas and coal fired UK power stations. Germany is among the first EU Countries to ignore this directive and is now actually building NEW coal fuelled power stations.

Cleanly used coal, gas and nuclear power generation is the common sense way forward for the UK, bringing both energy independence, security and renewed prosperity. We must not be diverted by very dubious politically fashionable 'green' causes and their financially motivated associates.
Thatcher, in her infinite wisdom, declared coal from British coal fields was not of the correct calorific value & therefore could not be used to generate energy.
We all realise she was having a war with the NUM & Arthur Scargill in particular but why then state absolute untruths & rubbish - I guess that's politicians for you & I wouldn't trust any of them regardless of which side they are batting for.
The fact is the coal board has & is now shutting down most or nearly all coal mines in the UK because they are not economic to run.
So, if we were to extract all this coal at such massive cost, we'll have another problem with old people dying from hypothermia because the cost to produce energy will be so high & these people will not be able to heat their own homes..
Utilising natural resource such as wind, tidal or solar panels to produce energy is a sensible solution.
By the way, Germany has moved away from nuclear powered reactors in favour of renewable energy, the investments being made there is many fold more times than what is happening here in the UK & shame on those here for not being more responsible.
Wilson closed more coal mines than did Thatcher. For those who are critical of Thatcher, are you willing to resign your present job and become a miner?

No, thought not.

It is EU diktats being followed by the UK that is causing us problems - and which the Germans are beginning to ignore.

I wouldn't have a problem with the visual impact of wind turbines off-shore. No doubt people complained when windmills were first built until they became an accepted part of our landscape.

What I do object to is having my bank accounts emptied because of the corruption by the energy companies and companies such as Navitas who are only interested in paying dividends to their shareholders - and don't give a **** how much you/me/our neighbours and pensioners have to suffer financially.
What ? No altruism just a desire for money offered by politicians panicking over the failure to develop Carbon Capture and Storage ? Surely not !!
just
Subsidies should be a means to an end not a permanent component of the overall business plan : especially extravagant subsidies making the unit price of electricity (in Euros !) extremely high whilst simultaneously reducing the purchasing power of Sterling for Euros.
[quote][p][bold]Phixer[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]yet_another_one[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]muscliffman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]yet_another_one[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]muscliffman[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]nobodyexpectedthat[/bold] wrote: Rising temperatures, maybe, mabe not! Man made climate change, maybe maybe not! Is there are 'truth' in any of these? depends on who you believe. What is true and indisputable, is that the 'old' methods of generating electricity rely on finite resources or resources that the UK has no control over. Coal, Oil, Gas, Uranium are all running out. Yes there may be loads of gas through Fracking but it too one day will run out. So the real issue here is that we (UK plc) need to generate our own energy to guarantee our way of life and security. If we dont then the lights will go out one day. So we HAVE to look into alternative renewables. So this is not just about the cost of electricity as many opponents of wind, tidal, bio fuel power would have you believe. A balanced local, logical, sustainable, renewable energy policy is the only sensible way forward. If you dont support this, where do you believe we will get our power from in 10, 20, 50 years? Yes renewable energy technologies come at a price, but what price the alternatives?[/p][/quote]You say " 'old' methods of generating electricity rely on finite resources or resources that the UK has no control over. Coal, Oil, Gas, Uranium are all running out." Actually we can if we wish have absolute control over most of these proven and reliable methods of generating UK electricity, because they exist within the UK in quantities capable of satisfying our own energy needs for hundreds of years - and that is if we don't find any more vast coal deposits just off our coast on the scale of the one very recently confirmed under the North Sea. Hopefully by the time these huge combined UK resources of shale gas, coal and nuclear fuel remotely approach 'running out' in many generations time they will have long discovered far better ways to convert other natural energy into electricity. Whilst the one thing we can all completely depend upon - providing common sense is restored to this matter- is that these methods will NOT include wind power![/p][/quote]We simply cannot allow those responsible for making decisions to sit on their backsides for too long. It is a travesty this happens in the UK & a reason why we, as a nation, are falling behind the rest of the world. For example, take a look at our road building/improvement program - by the time the roads are built traffic exceeds that anticipated & the end product is far worse than the original case was meant to solve. Absolutely ridiculous. We can only hope the lights will not go out before any measure to make us more self sufficient gets built. After all, we do not want to be held to ransom by this eastern block mess over gas pipeline & supply because that will cost us dear in time. On fossil fuels, we do not have a store for hundreds of years - we should think clearly & move fast before our future generations are affected by too much dilly dallying.[/p][/quote]You suggest "On fossil fuels, we do not have a store for hundreds of years" - says who, someone with a vested interest..........? Because we most certainly do! It has always been accepted that we left hundreds of years worth of energy producing coal behind when we closed most of our mines in the 1980's - that decision was ultimately a purely economic one at the time. Since then we have developed many new inexpensive ways of extracting coal and have also discovered massive fresh coal reserves just off shore - plus of course huge quantities of shale gas. Latest estimates confirm that these two fossil fuels alone would keep the UK going with gas and electricity for over a thousand years - and I think that will do! The only reason we are reaching a UK power crisis is because we are unquestionably following 'green' inspired EU programmes of decommissioning perfectly good oil, gas and coal fired UK power stations. Germany is among the first EU Countries to ignore this directive and is now actually building NEW coal fuelled power stations. Cleanly used coal, gas and nuclear power generation is the common sense way forward for the UK, bringing both energy independence, security and renewed prosperity. We must not be diverted by very dubious politically fashionable 'green' causes and their financially motivated associates.[/p][/quote]Thatcher, in her infinite wisdom, declared coal from British coal fields was not of the correct calorific value & therefore could not be used to generate energy. We all realise she was having a war with the NUM & Arthur Scargill in particular but why then state absolute untruths & rubbish - I guess that's politicians for you & I wouldn't trust any of them regardless of which side they are batting for. The fact is the coal board has & is now shutting down most or nearly all coal mines in the UK because they are not economic to run. So, if we were to extract all this coal at such massive cost, we'll have another problem with old people dying from hypothermia because the cost to produce energy will be so high & these people will not be able to heat their own homes.. Utilising natural resource such as wind, tidal or solar panels to produce energy is a sensible solution. By the way, Germany has moved away from nuclear powered reactors in favour of renewable energy, the investments being made there is many fold more times than what is happening here in the UK & shame on those here for not being more responsible.[/p][/quote]Wilson closed more coal mines than did Thatcher. For those who are critical of Thatcher, are you willing to resign your present job and become a miner? No, thought not. It is EU diktats being followed by the UK that is causing us problems - and which the Germans are beginning to ignore. I wouldn't have a problem with the visual impact of wind turbines off-shore. No doubt people complained when windmills were first built until they became an accepted part of our landscape. What I do object to is having my bank accounts emptied because of the corruption by the energy companies and companies such as Navitas who are only interested in paying dividends to their shareholders - and don't give a **** how much you/me/our neighbours and pensioners have to suffer financially.[/p][/quote]What ? No altruism just a desire for money offered by politicians panicking over the failure to develop Carbon Capture and Storage ? Surely not !! just Subsidies should be a means to an end not a permanent component of the overall business plan : especially extravagant subsidies making the unit price of electricity (in Euros !) extremely high whilst simultaneously reducing the purchasing power of Sterling for Euros. Ebb Tide
  • Score: 0

5:06pm Wed 14 May 14

Marty Caine UKIP says...

BarrHumbug wrote:
So the planning body have accepted to look at the application, they now have 3 months to prepare to look at it, then start trawling through the 18,000 pages, and how much is all this costing and is there any chance of actually seeing the thing built and working within our lifetime?
Hopefully not and even if they do build it you will never see it working efficiently enough to meet our needs, but hey lets just throw £3 billion at it anyway
[quote][p][bold]BarrHumbug[/bold] wrote: So the planning body have accepted to look at the application, they now have 3 months to prepare to look at it, then start trawling through the 18,000 pages, and how much is all this costing and is there any chance of actually seeing the thing built and working within our lifetime?[/p][/quote]Hopefully not and even if they do build it you will never see it working efficiently enough to meet our needs, but hey lets just throw £3 billion at it anyway Marty Caine UKIP
  • Score: 0

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