Noise from proposed Navitus Bay wind farm will be ‘louder over water’

Bournemouth Echo: Noise from Navitus Bay wind farm will be ‘louder over water’ Noise from Navitus Bay wind farm will be ‘louder over water’

A SCIENTIST has reinforced his claims that the noise from the proposed Navitus Bay wind farm will be louder than the developer is claiming.

As reported in the Daily Echo, Dr John Yelland, an Oxford University physicist and Fellow of the Institute of Engineering and Technology, said that operational noise from the wind farm, which would be 12 miles from Christchuch and 13 from Bournemouth and Poole, would be significantly above the public protection limit of 35 dBA set down in the Noise Regulations.

He claimed that developer Navitus Bay Development Ltd had used calculations for sound travelling over land rather than water.

NBDL project manager Mike Unsworth said he strongly rejected Dr Yelland’s analysis and that recognised standards had been used.

But Dr Yelland has again warned that residents will suffer excessive noise.

He said: “NBDL state in their noise assessment that the standard that they have used to calculate the airborne noise onshore was ISO 9613-2. This is an excellent international standard, but it was wrong for Navitus Bay to use it when its very first clause states that it should not be used for propagation over water.

“I was most surprised that the wind farm developers seemed unaware of recent academic research, which explains very clearly why use of the ISO 9613-2 standard is inappropriate and how sound propagation over water should in fact be calculated.

“Anyone who fishes in or sails on the sea will know that sound travels so much further over water than over the land.

“There is quite simply no other operational UK offshore wind farm that comes anywhere near the Navitus Bay proposal in terms of its high power – and therefore high noise – levels and proximity to densely-populated downwind shorelines largely dependent on tourism.

“Bournemouth and its surrounding shorelines should not be guinea pigs for an experiment like Navitus Bay, for which relatively simple science shows beyond doubt that current government noise level limits would be very significantly exceeded.”

Roy Pointer, chairman of Poole and Christchurch Bays Association, which represents more than 40 residents’ groups, added: “This is shocking news from a highly-respected scientist, who understands the way noise travels over water. If we can’t trust NBDL to use the right measurement process on this, how can we trust other aspects of their consultation process?”

If built, the park would see as many as 194 turbines as high as 200m. NBDL has submitted its planning application to the Planning Inspectorate.

  • A public meeting is to be held on Saturday from 2pm to 4.30pm at the BIC to discuss the wind farm plans, with speakers for and against.

Comparison is 'misleading'

MIKE Unsworth, project director for Navitus Bay, said: “Dr Yelland is factually incorrect in his judgement.

“The standards used by independent noise experts investigating the potential noise impacts of Navitus Bay, are exactly the same as those used by developers assessing potential noise impacts at other offshore wind park schemes around the UK – currently there are over 1000 operational turbines in UK waters.

“Local residents can be assured that the noise assessments undertaken are valid and, furthermore, predicted noise levels are not expected to exceed the internationally recognised threshold criteria during the construction, operation and maintenance, and decommissioning phases.

“Dr Yelland’s comparison with other wind parks in the UK is misinformed and misleading. The majority of the operational offshore wind projects around the UK are closer to shore than Navitus Bay will be, yet there is no evidence of operational noise impacts at the nearby coastal locations.”

Comments (36)

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7:01am Thu 8 May 14

kalebmoledirt says...

Forget what developers say ,go and check yourself ,their are plenty of them.I've seen many and stayed in hotels that have overlooked them (that is when it is,a very clear day)and never heard one.plus they did add a bit of light to what was an otherwise pitch black horizons.
Forget what developers say ,go and check yourself ,their are plenty of them.I've seen many and stayed in hotels that have overlooked them (that is when it is,a very clear day)and never heard one.plus they did add a bit of light to what was an otherwise pitch black horizons. kalebmoledirt
  • Score: 10

7:21am Thu 8 May 14

rorusmaximus says...

kalebmoledirt wrote:
Forget what developers say ,go and check yourself ,their are plenty of them.I've seen many and stayed in hotels that have overlooked them (that is when it is,a very clear day)and never heard one.plus they did add a bit of light to what was an otherwise pitch black horizons.
Were you downwind and were there anywhere near 194 turbines, 200 metres in height?
I instinctively trust the scientist over Mike Unsworth, who has a lot to gain.
The prospect of an incessant din droning in from the sea is not one I would be inclined to welcome.
However, were the turbines in reality not going to create any noise discernible from the shore, I would be willing to listen to further arguments for their successful introduction.
This noise issue does seem very speculative, however when an Oxford University Physicist disagrees with a layman man who sees a finish line glistening in gold, it really does paint a sorry picture.
[quote][p][bold]kalebmoledirt[/bold] wrote: Forget what developers say ,go and check yourself ,their are plenty of them.I've seen many and stayed in hotels that have overlooked them (that is when it is,a very clear day)and never heard one.plus they did add a bit of light to what was an otherwise pitch black horizons.[/p][/quote]Were you downwind and were there anywhere near 194 turbines, 200 metres in height? I instinctively trust the scientist over Mike Unsworth, who has a lot to gain. The prospect of an incessant din droning in from the sea is not one I would be inclined to welcome. However, were the turbines in reality not going to create any noise discernible from the shore, I would be willing to listen to further arguments for their successful introduction. This noise issue does seem very speculative, however when an Oxford University Physicist disagrees with a layman man who sees a finish line glistening in gold, it really does paint a sorry picture. rorusmaximus
  • Score: 5

7:29am Thu 8 May 14

poolebabe says...

We do need to think about alternative energy. We are our own worst enemy. We need to source more of our own but Fracking, wind farms, nuclear all cause controversy because no one wants any of it in their back yard. It would help if we could trust MPs and developers and such, but we can't. Not when they are so motivated by money.
We do need to think about alternative energy. We are our own worst enemy. We need to source more of our own but Fracking, wind farms, nuclear all cause controversy because no one wants any of it in their back yard. It would help if we could trust MPs and developers and such, but we can't. Not when they are so motivated by money. poolebabe
  • Score: 22

7:36am Thu 8 May 14

PokesdownMark says...

This is not the worlds first wind farm. Can the current ones be heard at 12 miles?
This is not the worlds first wind farm. Can the current ones be heard at 12 miles? PokesdownMark
  • Score: 10

7:50am Thu 8 May 14

mooninpisces says...

I wonder why the Echo has chosen to run the same story, about the same claim by the same protest group, for the second time in less than a month?

Can it be anything to do with the fact that it is today that the Planning Inspectorate is expected to make its decision about whether or not to accept the Navitus Bay application for Examination?
I wonder why the Echo has chosen to run the same story, about the same claim by the same protest group, for the second time in less than a month? Can it be anything to do with the fact that it is today that the Planning Inspectorate is expected to make its decision about whether or not to accept the Navitus Bay application for Examination? mooninpisces
  • Score: 11

7:52am Thu 8 May 14

apm1954 says...

get on with it , same people - no fracking, no wind farm, no nuclear, no solar, come on then give us your proposals, and stop moaning like i said get on with it.
get on with it , same people - no fracking, no wind farm, no nuclear, no solar, come on then give us your proposals, and stop moaning like i said get on with it. apm1954
  • Score: 8

7:55am Thu 8 May 14

kalebmoledirt says...

rorusmaximus wrote:
kalebmoledirt wrote:
Forget what developers say ,go and check yourself ,their are plenty of them.I've seen many and stayed in hotels that have overlooked them (that is when it is,a very clear day)and never heard one.plus they did add a bit of light to what was an otherwise pitch black horizons.
Were you downwind and were there anywhere near 194 turbines, 200 metres in height?
I instinctively trust the scientist over Mike Unsworth, who has a lot to gain.
The prospect of an incessant din droning in from the sea is not one I would be inclined to welcome.
However, were the turbines in reality not going to create any noise discernible from the shore, I would be willing to listen to further arguments for their successful introduction.
This noise issue does seem very speculative, however when an Oxford University Physicist disagrees with a layman man who sees a finish line glistening in gold, it really does paint a sorry picture.
We were staying at Smith's hall in Margate where the biggest wind farm in England is located and the second biggest in the world..I also live about 2km as the crows flies from only 4 of them and admit across open countryside .I have been to test the noise issue and had to get within few hundred meters to hear them
Whilst I understand some objecting to them .I don't think the noise factor will help stop them uterliziing wind power
[quote][p][bold]rorusmaximus[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]kalebmoledirt[/bold] wrote: Forget what developers say ,go and check yourself ,their are plenty of them.I've seen many and stayed in hotels that have overlooked them (that is when it is,a very clear day)and never heard one.plus they did add a bit of light to what was an otherwise pitch black horizons.[/p][/quote]Were you downwind and were there anywhere near 194 turbines, 200 metres in height? I instinctively trust the scientist over Mike Unsworth, who has a lot to gain. The prospect of an incessant din droning in from the sea is not one I would be inclined to welcome. However, were the turbines in reality not going to create any noise discernible from the shore, I would be willing to listen to further arguments for their successful introduction. This noise issue does seem very speculative, however when an Oxford University Physicist disagrees with a layman man who sees a finish line glistening in gold, it really does paint a sorry picture.[/p][/quote]We were staying at Smith's hall in Margate where the biggest wind farm in England is located and the second biggest in the world..I also live about 2km as the crows flies from only 4 of them and admit across open countryside .I have been to test the noise issue and had to get within few hundred meters to hear them Whilst I understand some objecting to them .I don't think the noise factor will help stop them uterliziing wind power kalebmoledirt
  • Score: 6

8:14am Thu 8 May 14

adspacebroker says...

Why are these do gooders with too much time on their hands trying to grasp every little string to hold on to the fight? Forget it it...it is happening whether you like it or not. As for the noise you are talking out of your a**e. Take a trip to the North Wales coast opposite the massive windfarm there and tell me if you can hear it.....we couldn't! and we were there for a week. This massive investment for Dorset, Hampshire and IW is a fantastic boost to our economy in addition to our green energy production. Many people who would give anything to work and earn a salary will benefit locally. The shoreside economy will be enjoying stability for a long time to come. Grow up and wear it!
Why are these do gooders with too much time on their hands trying to grasp every little string to hold on to the fight? Forget it it...it is happening whether you like it or not. As for the noise you are talking out of your a**e. Take a trip to the North Wales coast opposite the massive windfarm there and tell me if you can hear it.....we couldn't! and we were there for a week. This massive investment for Dorset, Hampshire and IW is a fantastic boost to our economy in addition to our green energy production. Many people who would give anything to work and earn a salary will benefit locally. The shoreside economy will be enjoying stability for a long time to come. Grow up and wear it! adspacebroker
  • Score: 5

8:29am Thu 8 May 14

nickynoodah says...

adspacebroker wrote:
Why are these do gooders with too much time on their hands trying to grasp every little string to hold on to the fight? Forget it it...it is happening whether you like it or not. As for the noise you are talking out of your a**e. Take a trip to the North Wales coast opposite the massive windfarm there and tell me if you can hear it.....we couldn't! and we were there for a week. This massive investment for Dorset, Hampshire and IW is a fantastic boost to our economy in addition to our green energy production. Many people who would give anything to work and earn a salary will benefit locally. The shoreside economy will be enjoying stability for a long time to come. Grow up and wear it!
Should ov put a new battery in your hearing aid you know
[quote][p][bold]adspacebroker[/bold] wrote: Why are these do gooders with too much time on their hands trying to grasp every little string to hold on to the fight? Forget it it...it is happening whether you like it or not. As for the noise you are talking out of your a**e. Take a trip to the North Wales coast opposite the massive windfarm there and tell me if you can hear it.....we couldn't! and we were there for a week. This massive investment for Dorset, Hampshire and IW is a fantastic boost to our economy in addition to our green energy production. Many people who would give anything to work and earn a salary will benefit locally. The shoreside economy will be enjoying stability for a long time to come. Grow up and wear it![/p][/quote]Should ov put a new battery in your hearing aid you know nickynoodah
  • Score: -12

8:32am Thu 8 May 14

poolebabe says...

I've been to places where there are wind farms. I've have even stayed at a place across the road from a wind farm in the countryside. I haven't heard any noise at all from them. I understand there is another concern regarding migrating birds, and as much as I love wildlife, the concerns seem to be largely speculative.
I've been to places where there are wind farms. I've have even stayed at a place across the road from a wind farm in the countryside. I haven't heard any noise at all from them. I understand there is another concern regarding migrating birds, and as much as I love wildlife, the concerns seem to be largely speculative. poolebabe
  • Score: 4

8:48am Thu 8 May 14

Ophilum says...

Poolebabe.

You are obviously talking right through your biased green hat on all counts read the science not just quote utter rubbish.
Poolebabe. You are obviously talking right through your biased green hat on all counts read the science not just quote utter rubbish. Ophilum
  • Score: -7

9:08am Thu 8 May 14

forest-dweller says...

I went to one of the open days that the developers held, and I have to say that they are somewhat economical with what they told people. For example, the visual impact that they showed, used the smallest turbines rather than the largest that are likely to be used. The benefits were over exaggerated using unrealistic load ratings. etc etc, So them under estimating the dB is not a surprise.
I went to one of the open days that the developers held, and I have to say that they are somewhat economical with what they told people. For example, the visual impact that they showed, used the smallest turbines rather than the largest that are likely to be used. The benefits were over exaggerated using unrealistic load ratings. etc etc, So them under estimating the dB is not a surprise. forest-dweller
  • Score: -2

9:11am Thu 8 May 14

forest-dweller says...

poolebabe wrote:
We do need to think about alternative energy. We are our own worst enemy. We need to source more of our own but Fracking, wind farms, nuclear all cause controversy because no one wants any of it in their back yard. It would help if we could trust MPs and developers and such, but we can't. Not when they are so motivated by money.
Fracking is probably the way to go. Caroline Lucas can demonstrate as much as she wants, but she is wrong to do so, for 2 reasons.

1) USA, a country known for its litigious nature has been fracking for something like 80 years. If it was the case that there was wide spread contamination of ground water and other pollutions, do you not think that there would have been mass class actions?

2) It seems to be OK to have extractions in other countries for our energy needs, where pollution and contamination takes place. I guess the NIMBYs follow the mantra of "out of sight, out of mind"!!
[quote][p][bold]poolebabe[/bold] wrote: We do need to think about alternative energy. We are our own worst enemy. We need to source more of our own but Fracking, wind farms, nuclear all cause controversy because no one wants any of it in their back yard. It would help if we could trust MPs and developers and such, but we can't. Not when they are so motivated by money.[/p][/quote]Fracking is probably the way to go. Caroline Lucas can demonstrate as much as she wants, but she is wrong to do so, for 2 reasons. 1) USA, a country known for its litigious nature has been fracking for something like 80 years. If it was the case that there was wide spread contamination of ground water and other pollutions, do you not think that there would have been mass class actions? 2) It seems to be OK to have extractions in other countries for our energy needs, where pollution and contamination takes place. I guess the NIMBYs follow the mantra of "out of sight, out of mind"!! forest-dweller
  • Score: 1

9:15am Thu 8 May 14

BarrHumbug says...

Don't you think the developers would make sure their farm would emit noise levels below the regulations before going to the expense of constructing it? Could it not be legally shut down if it exceeds that level, that would be a pretty expensive gamble? Now I could easily see the council wasting money like that (surf reef) and the government wasting money subsidising it, but not a private energy company?
Don't you think the developers would make sure their farm would emit noise levels below the regulations before going to the expense of constructing it? Could it not be legally shut down if it exceeds that level, that would be a pretty expensive gamble? Now I could easily see the council wasting money like that (surf reef) and the government wasting money subsidising it, but not a private energy company? BarrHumbug
  • Score: 6

9:17am Thu 8 May 14

yet_another_one says...

PokesdownMark wrote:
This is not the worlds first wind farm. Can the current ones be heard at 12 miles?
In short, the answer is NO they cannot be heard from 12 miles out.
Daily Echo reports are so negative towards this wind farm proposal & they are fuelling the NIMBY's arguments.
For goodness sake, we need to press ahead & build this wind farm & become more self sufficient in meeting our energy needs.
[quote][p][bold]PokesdownMark[/bold] wrote: This is not the worlds first wind farm. Can the current ones be heard at 12 miles?[/p][/quote]In short, the answer is NO they cannot be heard from 12 miles out. Daily Echo reports are so negative towards this wind farm proposal & they are fuelling the NIMBY's arguments. For goodness sake, we need to press ahead & build this wind farm & become more self sufficient in meeting our energy needs. yet_another_one
  • Score: 7

9:19am Thu 8 May 14

Townee says...

Why are the Echo running this story again? Perhaps it's because of the big meeting at the BIC this Saturday, they are rabble rousing again, trying to polarise opinion against the wind farm. A good paper will put all the facts and then let it's reader make up their own minds but not the Echo, it must be run by a load of tree huggers.
I'm looking forward to the day when permission is granted and work begins building them.
Why are the Echo running this story again? Perhaps it's because of the big meeting at the BIC this Saturday, they are rabble rousing again, trying to polarise opinion against the wind farm. A good paper will put all the facts and then let it's reader make up their own minds but not the Echo, it must be run by a load of tree huggers. I'm looking forward to the day when permission is granted and work begins building them. Townee
  • Score: 5

10:07am Thu 8 May 14

nobodyexpectedthat says...

So what if there is a noise. The real question that needs answering is will it be intrusive and will it adversely affect the everyday lives of residents or visitors? Perhaps more pertinently , will it affect tourism and drive people off the beaches and to other resorts?

Does anyone really believe the tens of thousands enjoying Borunemouth's glorious beaches in the summer will be able to hear anything other than the noise of people, cars, jet skis, power boats, the waves?

Some on this blog have commented from experience of being near real actual offshore windfarms and NONE of them has testified that the noise was anything other than hardly audible unless very close.

This noise thing is just the NIMBYS clutching at straws and demonstrates that they have nothing of any substance to add to the debate about whether we should have this farm or not.
So what if there is a noise. The real question that needs answering is will it be intrusive and will it adversely affect the everyday lives of residents or visitors? Perhaps more pertinently , will it affect tourism and drive people off the beaches and to other resorts? Does anyone really believe the tens of thousands enjoying Borunemouth's glorious beaches in the summer will be able to hear anything other than the noise of people, cars, jet skis, power boats, the waves? Some on this blog have commented from experience of being near real actual offshore windfarms and NONE of them has testified that the noise was anything other than hardly audible unless very close. This noise thing is just the NIMBYS clutching at straws and demonstrates that they have nothing of any substance to add to the debate about whether we should have this farm or not. nobodyexpectedthat
  • Score: 4

10:15am Thu 8 May 14

poolebabe says...

Ophilum wrote:
Poolebabe.

You are obviously talking right through your biased green hat on all counts read the science not just quote utter rubbish.
Can't you read? I'm not objecting, despite wearing a green hat as you put it.
[quote][p][bold]Ophilum[/bold] wrote: Poolebabe. You are obviously talking right through your biased green hat on all counts read the science not just quote utter rubbish.[/p][/quote]Can't you read? I'm not objecting, despite wearing a green hat as you put it. poolebabe
  • Score: 2

10:45am Thu 8 May 14

Flusters says...

Why don't they built it off Nice or Monte Carlo or maybe the Hague then they can send us their power via the line that connects us to the Continent via Kent and the National Grid? After all they don't allow fracking in France and the French and Dutch own Navitus I believe.
Why don't they built it off Nice or Monte Carlo or maybe the Hague then they can send us their power via the line that connects us to the Continent via Kent and the National Grid? After all they don't allow fracking in France and the French and Dutch own Navitus I believe. Flusters
  • Score: -3

11:31am Thu 8 May 14

nickynoodah says...

Flusters wrote:
Why don't they built it off Nice or Monte Carlo or maybe the Hague then they can send us their power via the line that connects us to the Continent via Kent and the National Grid? After all they don't allow fracking in France and the French and Dutch own Navitus I believe.
Their electric has not got enough volts in it for UK you know
[quote][p][bold]Flusters[/bold] wrote: Why don't they built it off Nice or Monte Carlo or maybe the Hague then they can send us their power via the line that connects us to the Continent via Kent and the National Grid? After all they don't allow fracking in France and the French and Dutch own Navitus I believe.[/p][/quote]Their electric has not got enough volts in it for UK you know nickynoodah
  • Score: -3

11:40am Thu 8 May 14

TheDistrict says...

Having seen other windfarms, both onshore and off shore, and sailed through the latter, I have yet to hear any noise above and beyond what is normal. One can imagine sat on a beach at Sandbanks and/or Bournemouth, and I would wager that the db's coming from the children enjoying their time on the beach is much louder than the alleged noise from the windfarm.

Everyone advocates that we need alternative sources of energy, and I for one would agree. At the same time, I would rather have a windfarm off shore, than a nuclear or coal burning power station on our shorelines.

Let Navitus get on with it. It is needed as is fracking to source other energies such as gas. Only on the BBC News this morning, there were two obviously rich Nimbys moaning about the possible fracking farm that maybe built on the land adjacent to their homes. Of course they can afford the energy bills where as a lot of people are finding it hard, so the more energy we can source, the better alround it will be.

Navitus would not win an application if they had not done the sums, the science before tendering such an application. And lets face it the Echo is obviously on the anti windfarm and fracking bench. As a media they should be neutral.
Having seen other windfarms, both onshore and off shore, and sailed through the latter, I have yet to hear any noise above and beyond what is normal. One can imagine sat on a beach at Sandbanks and/or Bournemouth, and I would wager that the db's coming from the children enjoying their time on the beach is much louder than the alleged noise from the windfarm. Everyone advocates that we need alternative sources of energy, and I for one would agree. At the same time, I would rather have a windfarm off shore, than a nuclear or coal burning power station on our shorelines. Let Navitus get on with it. It is needed as is fracking to source other energies such as gas. Only on the BBC News this morning, there were two obviously rich Nimbys moaning about the possible fracking farm that maybe built on the land adjacent to their homes. Of course they can afford the energy bills where as a lot of people are finding it hard, so the more energy we can source, the better alround it will be. Navitus would not win an application if they had not done the sums, the science before tendering such an application. And lets face it the Echo is obviously on the anti windfarm and fracking bench. As a media they should be neutral. TheDistrict
  • Score: 2

11:53am Thu 8 May 14

BmthNewshound says...

The Echo has firmly positioned itself behind the campaign against Navitus. The reporting style is designed to scaremonger rather than give a balanced and intelligent view on which the public can make an informed decision.
.
The objectors to Navitus represent a very small minority of local people. The vast majority of local residents are indifferent to the project or support it.
.
The objectors have failed to present an alternative to Navitus and live in a bubble isolated from the fact that in the next couple of decades the UK will face a real energy crisis as older power stations are turned off just as demands for electricity increase. It seems to me that a selfish minority expect to continue to receive a reliable electricity supply but expect others to be inconvenienced by its generation.
.
I
The Echo has firmly positioned itself behind the campaign against Navitus. The reporting style is designed to scaremonger rather than give a balanced and intelligent view on which the public can make an informed decision. . The objectors to Navitus represent a very small minority of local people. The vast majority of local residents are indifferent to the project or support it. . The objectors have failed to present an alternative to Navitus and live in a bubble isolated from the fact that in the next couple of decades the UK will face a real energy crisis as older power stations are turned off just as demands for electricity increase. It seems to me that a selfish minority expect to continue to receive a reliable electricity supply but expect others to be inconvenienced by its generation. . I BmthNewshound
  • Score: 3

11:57am Thu 8 May 14

neilf2006 says...

Sorry to be a party pooper, but noise ??? - we have the airshow and the wheels festival to look forward to ! 3 days each, or 4 ??? Noise guaranteed!

Incidentally, I have been near to a number of offshore wind-farms, never heard a thing from any of them. Yet to figure out exactly what is agitating people so much, surely this is not all about a view?
Sorry to be a party pooper, but noise ??? - we have the airshow and the wheels festival to look forward to ! 3 days each, or 4 ??? Noise guaranteed! Incidentally, I have been near to a number of offshore wind-farms, never heard a thing from any of them. Yet to figure out exactly what is agitating people so much, surely this is not all about a view? neilf2006
  • Score: 1

11:59am Thu 8 May 14

kalebmoledirt says...

kalebmoledirt wrote:
Forget what developers say ,go and check yourself ,their are plenty of them.I've seen many and stayed in hotels that have overlooked them (that is when it is,a very clear day)and never heard one.plus they did add a bit of light to what was an otherwise pitch black horizons.
Ps before anyone tries to get them banned because of the smell.they don't
[quote][p][bold]kalebmoledirt[/bold] wrote: Forget what developers say ,go and check yourself ,their are plenty of them.I've seen many and stayed in hotels that have overlooked them (that is when it is,a very clear day)and never heard one.plus they did add a bit of light to what was an otherwise pitch black horizons.[/p][/quote]Ps before anyone tries to get them banned because of the smell.they don't kalebmoledirt
  • Score: -4

12:15pm Thu 8 May 14

muscliffman says...

forest-dweller wrote:
poolebabe wrote:
We do need to think about alternative energy. We are our own worst enemy. We need to source more of our own but Fracking, wind farms, nuclear all cause controversy because no one wants any of it in their back yard. It would help if we could trust MPs and developers and such, but we can't. Not when they are so motivated by money.
Fracking is probably the way to go. Caroline Lucas can demonstrate as much as she wants, but she is wrong to do so, for 2 reasons.

1) USA, a country known for its litigious nature has been fracking for something like 80 years. If it was the case that there was wide spread contamination of ground water and other pollutions, do you not think that there would have been mass class actions?

2) It seems to be OK to have extractions in other countries for our energy needs, where pollution and contamination takes place. I guess the NIMBYs follow the mantra of "out of sight, out of mind"!!
.......Not just the USA we have been successfully 'fracking' in the UK for years as well, although we did not use that word - what do local fracking opponents think Wytch Farm has been doing for decades?

We should all be concentrating upon further cleaning up our proven and 24/7 reliable methods of energy generation and stop arguing about diversionary details like the noise from some ridiculous power station sitting in the sea that will only work when the wind happens to be blowing at the right speed.

We have access to thousands of years worth of inexpensive and independent of imports UK energy in coal reserves and shale gas, what on earth are we waiting for!
[quote][p][bold]forest-dweller[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]poolebabe[/bold] wrote: We do need to think about alternative energy. We are our own worst enemy. We need to source more of our own but Fracking, wind farms, nuclear all cause controversy because no one wants any of it in their back yard. It would help if we could trust MPs and developers and such, but we can't. Not when they are so motivated by money.[/p][/quote]Fracking is probably the way to go. Caroline Lucas can demonstrate as much as she wants, but she is wrong to do so, for 2 reasons. 1) USA, a country known for its litigious nature has been fracking for something like 80 years. If it was the case that there was wide spread contamination of ground water and other pollutions, do you not think that there would have been mass class actions? 2) It seems to be OK to have extractions in other countries for our energy needs, where pollution and contamination takes place. I guess the NIMBYs follow the mantra of "out of sight, out of mind"!![/p][/quote].......Not just the USA we have been successfully 'fracking' in the UK for years as well, although we did not use that word - what do local fracking opponents think Wytch Farm has been doing for decades? We should all be concentrating upon further cleaning up our proven and 24/7 reliable methods of energy generation and stop arguing about diversionary details like the noise from some ridiculous power station sitting in the sea that will only work when the wind happens to be blowing at the right speed. We have access to thousands of years worth of inexpensive and independent of imports UK energy in coal reserves and shale gas, what on earth are we waiting for! muscliffman
  • Score: 2

12:39pm Thu 8 May 14

Letcommonsenseprevail says...

YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO HEAR THEM AS IT WILL BE WINDY!!!!!!
YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO HEAR THEM AS IT WILL BE WINDY!!!!!! Letcommonsenseprevail
  • Score: -3

12:53pm Thu 8 May 14

a.g.o.g. says...

At least somebody is ``LISTENING`` at last!
At least somebody is ``LISTENING`` at last! a.g.o.g.
  • Score: -1

12:54pm Thu 8 May 14

Suedehead says...

Has this scientist taken into account the noise of the waves caused by the wind? I suspect that will drown out any noise from the turbines a lot of the time.
Has this scientist taken into account the noise of the waves caused by the wind? I suspect that will drown out any noise from the turbines a lot of the time. Suedehead
  • Score: 2

1:04pm Thu 8 May 14

JDH says...

if these wind farms are so great, why is it the Dutch (who have little in the way of natural energy) will not allow them off their coastline?
It was interesting to see the Sherringham Shoals windfarm in North Norfolk from the beach at Wells By The Sea on Christmas Day morning, no blades on the turbines that we could see, (which is a lot), were turning, and when is there a peak energy demand? Xmas morning when lots of people are cooking lunch.
if these wind farms are so great, why is it the Dutch (who have little in the way of natural energy) will not allow them off their coastline? It was interesting to see the Sherringham Shoals windfarm in North Norfolk from the beach at Wells By The Sea on Christmas Day morning, no blades on the turbines that we could see, (which is a lot), were turning, and when is there a peak energy demand? Xmas morning when lots of people are cooking lunch. JDH
  • Score: 5

1:10pm Thu 8 May 14

Suedehead says...

JDH wrote:
if these wind farms are so great, why is it the Dutch (who have little in the way of natural energy) will not allow them off their coastline?
It was interesting to see the Sherringham Shoals windfarm in North Norfolk from the beach at Wells By The Sea on Christmas Day morning, no blades on the turbines that we could see, (which is a lot), were turning, and when is there a peak energy demand? Xmas morning when lots of people are cooking lunch.
It isn't a matter of not allowing them - there are two in existence. However, the Dutch government have taken the few that AT THE MOMENT, it is too expensive. They may well change their minds in the future. It took abut a minute to do a Google search and find that information on a Dutch government website. Yes, they have an English language website.
[quote][p][bold]JDH[/bold] wrote: if these wind farms are so great, why is it the Dutch (who have little in the way of natural energy) will not allow them off their coastline? It was interesting to see the Sherringham Shoals windfarm in North Norfolk from the beach at Wells By The Sea on Christmas Day morning, no blades on the turbines that we could see, (which is a lot), were turning, and when is there a peak energy demand? Xmas morning when lots of people are cooking lunch.[/p][/quote]It isn't a matter of not allowing them - there are two in existence. However, the Dutch government have taken the few that AT THE MOMENT, it is too expensive. They may well change their minds in the future. It took abut a minute to do a Google search and find that information on a Dutch government website. Yes, they have an English language website. Suedehead
  • Score: 1

1:23pm Thu 8 May 14

muscliffman says...

nobodyexpectedthat wrote:
So what if there is a noise. The real question that needs answering is will it be intrusive and will it adversely affect the everyday lives of residents or visitors? Perhaps more pertinently , will it affect tourism and drive people off the beaches and to other resorts?

Does anyone really believe the tens of thousands enjoying Borunemouth's glorious beaches in the summer will be able to hear anything other than the noise of people, cars, jet skis, power boats, the waves?

Some on this blog have commented from experience of being near real actual offshore windfarms and NONE of them has testified that the noise was anything other than hardly audible unless very close.

This noise thing is just the NIMBYS clutching at straws and demonstrates that they have nothing of any substance to add to the debate about whether we should have this farm or not.
No, I think the 'real question' that needs answering is 'will this wind farm work properly?'.

To answer that one just withdraw all the publicly funded wind farm subsidies and see how long it takes the commercial interests involved to all disappear.....
[quote][p][bold]nobodyexpectedthat[/bold] wrote: So what if there is a noise. The real question that needs answering is will it be intrusive and will it adversely affect the everyday lives of residents or visitors? Perhaps more pertinently , will it affect tourism and drive people off the beaches and to other resorts? Does anyone really believe the tens of thousands enjoying Borunemouth's glorious beaches in the summer will be able to hear anything other than the noise of people, cars, jet skis, power boats, the waves? Some on this blog have commented from experience of being near real actual offshore windfarms and NONE of them has testified that the noise was anything other than hardly audible unless very close. This noise thing is just the NIMBYS clutching at straws and demonstrates that they have nothing of any substance to add to the debate about whether we should have this farm or not.[/p][/quote]No, I think the 'real question' that needs answering is 'will this wind farm work properly?'. To answer that one just withdraw all the publicly funded wind farm subsidies and see how long it takes the commercial interests involved to all disappear..... muscliffman
  • Score: 4

7:08pm Thu 8 May 14

JDH says...

Suedehead wrote:
JDH wrote: if these wind farms are so great, why is it the Dutch (who have little in the way of natural energy) will not allow them off their coastline? It was interesting to see the Sherringham Shoals windfarm in North Norfolk from the beach at Wells By The Sea on Christmas Day morning, no blades on the turbines that we could see, (which is a lot), were turning, and when is there a peak energy demand? Xmas morning when lots of people are cooking lunch.
It isn't a matter of not allowing them - there are two in existence. However, the Dutch government have taken the few that AT THE MOMENT, it is too expensive. They may well change their minds in the future. It took abut a minute to do a Google search and find that information on a Dutch government website. Yes, they have an English language website.
most Dutch people can speak English better than english people
[quote][p][bold]Suedehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JDH[/bold] wrote: if these wind farms are so great, why is it the Dutch (who have little in the way of natural energy) will not allow them off their coastline? It was interesting to see the Sherringham Shoals windfarm in North Norfolk from the beach at Wells By The Sea on Christmas Day morning, no blades on the turbines that we could see, (which is a lot), were turning, and when is there a peak energy demand? Xmas morning when lots of people are cooking lunch.[/p][/quote]It isn't a matter of not allowing them - there are two in existence. However, the Dutch government have taken the few that AT THE MOMENT, it is too expensive. They may well change their minds in the future. It took abut a minute to do a Google search and find that information on a Dutch government website. Yes, they have an English language website.[/p][/quote]most Dutch people can speak English better than english people JDH
  • Score: 1

7:12pm Thu 8 May 14

Suedehead says...

JDH wrote:
Suedehead wrote:
JDH wrote: if these wind farms are so great, why is it the Dutch (who have little in the way of natural energy) will not allow them off their coastline? It was interesting to see the Sherringham Shoals windfarm in North Norfolk from the beach at Wells By The Sea on Christmas Day morning, no blades on the turbines that we could see, (which is a lot), were turning, and when is there a peak energy demand? Xmas morning when lots of people are cooking lunch.
It isn't a matter of not allowing them - there are two in existence. However, the Dutch government have taken the few that AT THE MOMENT, it is too expensive. They may well change their minds in the future. It took abut a minute to do a Google search and find that information on a Dutch government website. Yes, they have an English language website.
most Dutch people can speak English better than english people
I wish I could say that was a gross exaggeration but I shall content myself with saying that it is a bit of an exaggeration.
[quote][p][bold]JDH[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Suedehead[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]JDH[/bold] wrote: if these wind farms are so great, why is it the Dutch (who have little in the way of natural energy) will not allow them off their coastline? It was interesting to see the Sherringham Shoals windfarm in North Norfolk from the beach at Wells By The Sea on Christmas Day morning, no blades on the turbines that we could see, (which is a lot), were turning, and when is there a peak energy demand? Xmas morning when lots of people are cooking lunch.[/p][/quote]It isn't a matter of not allowing them - there are two in existence. However, the Dutch government have taken the few that AT THE MOMENT, it is too expensive. They may well change their minds in the future. It took abut a minute to do a Google search and find that information on a Dutch government website. Yes, they have an English language website.[/p][/quote]most Dutch people can speak English better than english people[/p][/quote]I wish I could say that was a gross exaggeration but I shall content myself with saying that it is a bit of an exaggeration. Suedehead
  • Score: 0

11:03pm Thu 8 May 14

somer23 says...

The statement by Navitus re windfarms closer to shore than Bournemouth is incomplete. Direction of wind and wind shear can carry sound extensively. For example cheering from Bournemouths football ground can be heard near the cliffs at Boscombe during North and North easterly winds when usually there is nothing to be heard. Practical tests downwind of the present farms could be carried to allay or confirm fears. Also do those farms have the 200m windmils (they are not really turbines - think jet engine). the only thing that makes these windfarms viable is the subsidies we pay for. Experience in Germany shows that coal fired power stations need not be dirty. The technology is not cheap but it is there. Our coal may not be the cheapest but has an indpenedent study been made to evaluate a return to cola fired stations.
The statement by Navitus re windfarms closer to shore than Bournemouth is incomplete. Direction of wind and wind shear can carry sound extensively. For example cheering from Bournemouths football ground can be heard near the cliffs at Boscombe during North and North easterly winds when usually there is nothing to be heard. Practical tests downwind of the present farms could be carried to allay or confirm fears. Also do those farms have the 200m windmils (they are not really turbines - think jet engine). the only thing that makes these windfarms viable is the subsidies we pay for. Experience in Germany shows that coal fired power stations need not be dirty. The technology is not cheap but it is there. Our coal may not be the cheapest but has an indpenedent study been made to evaluate a return to cola fired stations. somer23
  • Score: 2

1:08pm Fri 9 May 14

Flusters says...

I understand power goes over to the Continent via the National Grid line from Kent.
I understand power goes over to the Continent via the National Grid line from Kent. Flusters
  • Score: 1

1:28pm Sat 10 May 14

Flusters says...

On the National Grid web site it says 'IFA2 will be a 1,000MW HVDC link between the French and British transmission systems. It will be a total of 230km in length and will connect the central south coast of the UK with the Normandy region of France. There will be a converter station in each country with short electrical connections to electrical substations. Land based electricity cables will connect the converter station to the submarine cable.

Public consultation on IFA2 is due to start in early 2014. The interconnector is expected to be operational by around 2020.'

Also a link for the Netherlands: 'National Grid and TenneT are constructing the BritNed subsea link which will support security of supply for both the Netherlands and UK as well as improving access for customers to participate in European markets.'
On the National Grid web site it says 'IFA2 will be a 1,000MW HVDC link between the French and British transmission systems. It will be a total of 230km in length and will connect the central south coast of the UK with the Normandy region of France. There will be a converter station in each country with short electrical connections to electrical substations. Land based electricity cables will connect the converter station to the submarine cable. Public consultation on IFA2 is due to start in early 2014. The interconnector is expected to be operational by around 2020.' Also a link for the Netherlands: 'National Grid and TenneT are constructing the BritNed subsea link which will support security of supply for both the Netherlands and UK as well as improving access for customers to participate in European markets.' Flusters
  • Score: 0

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