New plans for Bournemouth's Winter Gardens 'substantially different' says developer

Bournemouth Echo: ALL CHANGE: The old Winter Gardens site ALL CHANGE: The old Winter Gardens site

NEW plans for Bournemouth’s Winter Gardens site would be substantially different from those rejected last year, a developer has claimed.

Inland Homes says its new scheme for a hotel, leisure attractions and homes have been scaled down from the previous proposal in a bid to address neighbours’ concerns.

It is still pursuing an appeal against Bournemouth council’s refusal of the previous scheme, which was originally submitted by different applicants, but said it would withdraw that appeal if the new plans received permission.

Gregory Greay, of planning agency Gregory Gray Associates, said the proposed hotel would be two storeys smaller than originally planned.

In a presentation to the council’s planning board in advance of an application, he said the developer had sought the views of residents on nearby Cranborne Road.

He said: “Generally there’s contentment with the proposed mix of development and general support for the principle of a hotel but residents are deeply concerned about a building above six storeys in height.”

He said the new plans were not a “recycling” of the previous scheme but included “qualitative and quantitative changes”.

“Two storeys of the hotel element have been removed altogether. It’s reduced the scheme by 20,000ft.

“We’ve got a reduced impact of development and a reduced scale,” he said.

He said the scheme would mean also improving the public space around the site, with traffic and pedestrians sharing the “public realm”.

Councillors were told an application could go before them in June.

But the meeting heard concerns from council leader and ward councillor Cllr John Beesley.

“I don’t believe the local planning authority should in any way be pushed into making a decision on a fresh outline application on the basis that the appeal may be withdrawn,” he said.

“It’s a very significant site. It would be a very major development and we all know that the degree of detail in an outline application is hugely important in order that we don’t fetter ourselves to planning principles for the site that we realise later are not quite as good as we might have hoped for.”

He stressed that the “overwhelming majority of the site” belonged to the council and cautioned against “cutting corners to meet a timetable largely imposed by the developer”.

Comments (20)

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6:53am Thu 24 Apr 14

BIGTONE says...

“It’s a very significant site. It would be a very major development and we all know that the degree of detail in an outline application is hugely important in order that we don’t fetter ourselves to planning principles for the site that we realise later are not quite as good as we might have hoped for.”


That's exactly what others have said for years about developments.....sad
ly all in vain. Ohhhh how the tables turn Eh?
“It’s a very significant site. It would be a very major development and we all know that the degree of detail in an outline application is hugely important in order that we don’t fetter ourselves to planning principles for the site that we realise later are not quite as good as we might have hoped for.” That's exactly what others have said for years about developments.....sad ly all in vain. Ohhhh how the tables turn Eh? BIGTONE
  • Score: 4

7:05am Thu 24 Apr 14

wonderway says...

But the meeting heard concerns from council leader and ward councillor Cllr John Beesley.

“I don’t believe the local planning authority should in any way be pushed into making a decision on a fresh outline application on the basis that the appeal may be withdrawn,” he said.

Sounds like weasels trying to tell the planning board what to do again

his mates must be upset that they may loose out on their Christmas bonus

lost out on pavilion site

trying to buy out land from developers that have council planning approval because he wants to spend 10 million of tax payers money on CPO for Exeter rd car park

now he is now stating he does not approve some one else's idea for winter gardens,after his mate got caught with both hands in cookie jar

i have better idea ASK THE PEOPLE OF BOURNEMOUTH WHAT THEY WANT BUILT ON THE LAND instead of trying to dictate to residents what he wants
But the meeting heard concerns from council leader and ward councillor Cllr John Beesley. “I don’t believe the local planning authority should in any way be pushed into making a decision on a fresh outline application on the basis that the appeal may be withdrawn,” he said. Sounds like weasels trying to tell the planning board what to do again his mates must be upset that they may loose out on their Christmas bonus lost out on pavilion site trying to buy out land from developers that have council planning approval because he wants to spend 10 million of tax payers money on CPO for Exeter rd car park now he is now stating he does not approve some one else's idea for winter gardens,after his mate got caught with both hands in cookie jar i have better idea ASK THE PEOPLE OF BOURNEMOUTH WHAT THEY WANT BUILT ON THE LAND instead of trying to dictate to residents what he wants wonderway
  • Score: 15

7:34am Thu 24 Apr 14

billy bumble says...

Translation

"I am worried that I won't get my snout in this trough before being voted out next year"
Translation "I am worried that I won't get my snout in this trough before being voted out next year" billy bumble
  • Score: 13

7:42am Thu 24 Apr 14

Richard 1976 says...

I think a theatre suitable for orchestral performances would suit the site very nicely.
I think a theatre suitable for orchestral performances would suit the site very nicely. Richard 1976
  • Score: 9

7:50am Thu 24 Apr 14

Gastines3 says...

It would be interesting if to hear a different tune from the Council concerning plans submitted by others to whom Morgan Sindall and the chosen few weren't joined at the hip,or should I say pocket.
It would be interesting if to hear a different tune from the Council concerning plans submitted by others to whom Morgan Sindall and the chosen few weren't joined at the hip,or should I say pocket. Gastines3
  • Score: 8

7:50am Thu 24 Apr 14

Gastines3 says...

It would be interesting if to hear a different tune from the Council concerning plans submitted by others to whom Morgan Sindall and the chosen few weren't joined at the hip,or should I say pocket.
It would be interesting if to hear a different tune from the Council concerning plans submitted by others to whom Morgan Sindall and the chosen few weren't joined at the hip,or should I say pocket. Gastines3
  • Score: 7

8:04am Thu 24 Apr 14

High Treason says...

A super sized swimming pool, an ice rink, student accommodation, a new town hall, social housing, food bank, more shops, more restaurants, theatre, cinemas whatever. It will not be what the council tax payers wants. It will be what the dictatorship at the town hall wants.
A super sized swimming pool, an ice rink, student accommodation, a new town hall, social housing, food bank, more shops, more restaurants, theatre, cinemas whatever. It will not be what the council tax payers wants. It will be what the dictatorship at the town hall wants. High Treason
  • Score: 11

8:54am Thu 24 Apr 14

Townee says...

Beasley is the same guy who want to compulsory purchase land that already has planning permission to build a new development but he doesn't like.
This guy has to go, he is a dictator and doesn't listen to anyone but himself or his mates.
Beasley is the same guy who want to compulsory purchase land that already has planning permission to build a new development but he doesn't like. This guy has to go, he is a dictator and doesn't listen to anyone but himself or his mates. Townee
  • Score: 12

9:24am Thu 24 Apr 14

TheDistrict says...

Mr. Beesley, keep your nose out of planning, let the people decide what they want. Oh yes, you did that before, and we got an open air platform, which I believe was not on the list of what was asked for. Your are an embarrassment to the Town, the Council, and more importantly the people of Bournemouth.

Some one please step in and take over with the proviso that whoever, gets Bournemouth back to the town we loved.
Mr. Beesley, keep your nose out of planning, let the people decide what they want. Oh yes, you did that before, and we got an open air platform, which I believe was not on the list of what was asked for. Your are an embarrassment to the Town, the Council, and more importantly the people of Bournemouth. Some one please step in and take over with the proviso that whoever, gets Bournemouth back to the town we loved. TheDistrict
  • Score: 13

9:27am Thu 24 Apr 14

Redgolfer says...

Beasley states ''That the overwhelming majority of the site'' belonged to the council, sorry thought the council were in office for the good of the people and that all the land that they are flogging of to developers was actually land that belonged to the people of Bournemouth.
To quote from a tv program a long time ago, ''POWER TO THE PEOPLE'' yes from Wolfie Smith.
Beasley states ''That the overwhelming majority of the site'' belonged to the council, sorry thought the council were in office for the good of the people and that all the land that they are flogging of to developers was actually land that belonged to the people of Bournemouth. To quote from a tv program a long time ago, ''POWER TO THE PEOPLE'' yes from Wolfie Smith. Redgolfer
  • Score: 7

11:11am Thu 24 Apr 14

speedy231278 says...

I suspect the only plans the council would approve would be ones drawn up by Morgan Sindall on behalf of the BBC (Bournemouth Building Company). Oddly enough, their board is comprised entirely of Morgan Sindall directors and BBC (Bournemouth Borough Council) bigwigs. I wonder what fees these directorships attract, and what bonuses may be paid on completion of their projects? How coincidental that the area's strategic car parking plan states that open air car parks are inefficient use of space and ought to be redeveloped.....
I suspect the only plans the council would approve would be ones drawn up by Morgan Sindall on behalf of the BBC (Bournemouth Building Company). Oddly enough, their board is comprised entirely of Morgan Sindall directors and BBC (Bournemouth Borough Council) bigwigs. I wonder what fees these directorships attract, and what bonuses may be paid on completion of their projects? How coincidental that the area's strategic car parking plan states that open air car parks are inefficient use of space and ought to be redeveloped..... speedy231278
  • Score: 9

11:40am Thu 24 Apr 14

BOURNE RED says...

Why don't they just build a bus station there as it will be less Hassell and cheaper for the tax payer then trying to build Exeter NCP car park.. Plus it's closer to the beach and only a extra 200m from the the old bus station..
Why don't they just build a bus station there as it will be less Hassell and cheaper for the tax payer then trying to build Exeter NCP car park.. Plus it's closer to the beach and only a extra 200m from the the old bus station.. BOURNE RED
  • Score: 10

12:10pm Thu 24 Apr 14

Bob49 says...

The developers name .... Iinland Homes should give you a clue.

As to Cll Weasel bleating the devil being in the detail I don't remember him or the council overrly concerning themselves when the Moneychine development on Boscombe seafront was built HIGHER than the original submitted and approved plans.

Hhow did that happen, and more importantly why was NO action taken ?

An oversight by the architect, perhaps Cllr Weasel ?

I bet the same oversight didn't oocur in the direction the 'concultant's fees' went did they ?

The town is being systemically asset stripped............
.... for whose benefit ?
The developers name .... Iinland Homes should give you a clue. As to Cll Weasel bleating the devil being in the detail I don't remember him or the council overrly concerning themselves when the Moneychine development on Boscombe seafront was built HIGHER than the original submitted and approved plans. Hhow did that happen, and more importantly why was NO action taken ? An oversight by the architect, perhaps Cllr Weasel ? I bet the same oversight didn't oocur in the direction the 'concultant's fees' went did they ? The town is being systemically asset stripped............ .... for whose benefit ? Bob49
  • Score: 4

12:16pm Thu 24 Apr 14

Baywolf says...

Was just going to suggest the same thing Bourne Reed . The Pavillion development is a shambles and the former bus sight is being argued over despite being a car park lot for over 20 years! Now they want it all of a sudden. A giant hotel is being built opposite just what it needs is a bus station terminal right on its front door. A hotel in competition as it's neighbour makes you wonder what happened to the original brief of the Winter Gardens site that was for an Indoor Family Entertainment Facility.
Was just going to suggest the same thing Bourne Reed . The Pavillion development is a shambles and the former bus sight is being argued over despite being a car park lot for over 20 years! Now they want it all of a sudden. A giant hotel is being built opposite just what it needs is a bus station terminal right on its front door. A hotel in competition as it's neighbour makes you wonder what happened to the original brief of the Winter Gardens site that was for an Indoor Family Entertainment Facility. Baywolf
  • Score: 4

12:58pm Thu 24 Apr 14

Dorset Logic says...

All this negative stuff, they could be men of vision for all you know, you may get a Nando's, a Frankie and Bennys, and if they have a good vision a popular burger chain. If they go down the "Class" route I bet a chocolate fountain cafe, Cookie store and milk shake shop will also be considered. It may not be as formulaic as the norm. Wait until the Vision Statement appears before you judge these pillar's of society.
All this negative stuff, they could be men of vision for all you know, you may get a Nando's, a Frankie and Bennys, and if they have a good vision a popular burger chain. If they go down the "Class" route I bet a chocolate fountain cafe, Cookie store and milk shake shop will also be considered. It may not be as formulaic as the norm. Wait until the Vision Statement appears before you judge these pillar's of society. Dorset Logic
  • Score: 1

2:00pm Thu 24 Apr 14

BmthNewshound says...

It sounds to me as if Beesley is set against the scheme, in which case Inland Homes will be wasting their time and money submitting a full planning application. Lets face it if Beesley doesn't want it the planning committee won't grant permission.
.
If Bournemouth is serious about having a sustainable tourism industry it needs to seriously raise its game. Its going to take more than a zip-wire off the pier and a few plastic rocks on Boscombe beach if the town is to compete with other tourism centres. The Winter Gardens site is one of the last few site large enough for a major indoor attraction which will attract people to the town whatever the weather.
It sounds to me as if Beesley is set against the scheme, in which case Inland Homes will be wasting their time and money submitting a full planning application. Lets face it if Beesley doesn't want it the planning committee won't grant permission. . If Bournemouth is serious about having a sustainable tourism industry it needs to seriously raise its game. Its going to take more than a zip-wire off the pier and a few plastic rocks on Boscombe beach if the town is to compete with other tourism centres. The Winter Gardens site is one of the last few site large enough for a major indoor attraction which will attract people to the town whatever the weather. BmthNewshound
  • Score: 4

4:42pm Thu 24 Apr 14

old buffer says...

Why yet more flats and hotels? Why would people want to stay in what has now become such a dull town? For the BSO concerts? The town-centre swimming pool? The permanent ice-rink? The draw of first-class shops such as John Lewis and exciting entertainment venues such as an IMAX cinema? To enjoy any or all of these you need to get out of Bournemouth and travel. Yes, there's the occasional festival but most of the time there just aren't enough facilities, especially in bad weather. Westover Road is barely a shadow of its former self and the existing cinemas are well past their sell-by date. The BIC is charmless and the Pavilion hanging on by the skin of its art deco teeth. Those who come for the so-called 'night-life' are only here for a few hours' heavy drinking then disappear up the Spur Road in the early hours, throwing their fast-food rubbish out of the car windows as they leave. Yes, the town still has its natural attributes such as the gardens and the beaches but they aren't going to be enough to return Bournemouth to the forefront of tourism and culture and neither, it appears, is our present collection of councillors.
Why yet more flats and hotels? Why would people want to stay in what has now become such a dull town? For the BSO concerts? The town-centre swimming pool? The permanent ice-rink? The draw of first-class shops such as John Lewis and exciting entertainment venues such as an IMAX cinema? To enjoy any or all of these you need to get out of Bournemouth and travel. Yes, there's the occasional festival but most of the time there just aren't enough facilities, especially in bad weather. Westover Road is barely a shadow of its former self and the existing cinemas are well past their sell-by date. The BIC is charmless and the Pavilion hanging on by the skin of its art deco teeth. Those who come for the so-called 'night-life' are only here for a few hours' heavy drinking then disappear up the Spur Road in the early hours, throwing their fast-food rubbish out of the car windows as they leave. Yes, the town still has its natural attributes such as the gardens and the beaches but they aren't going to be enough to return Bournemouth to the forefront of tourism and culture and neither, it appears, is our present collection of councillors. old buffer
  • Score: 7

5:51pm Thu 24 Apr 14

Bob49 says...

because flats give a far higher return on the development .... and consequently far higher 'consultancy fees'

the pretence that the council has any interest in providing facilities for both locals and visitors has long since been abandoned ... and why not, no one complains so it's "fill your boots" time and "where's the next car park ? "

trebles and rolled up trouser legs, old boy !
because flats give a far higher return on the development .... and consequently far higher 'consultancy fees' the pretence that the council has any interest in providing facilities for both locals and visitors has long since been abandoned ... and why not, no one complains so it's "fill your boots" time and "where's the next car park ? " trebles and rolled up trouser legs, old boy ! Bob49
  • Score: 4

6:30pm Thu 24 Apr 14

O'Reilly says...

wonderway wrote:
But the meeting heard concerns from council leader and ward councillor Cllr John Beesley.

“I don’t believe the local planning authority should in any way be pushed into making a decision on a fresh outline application on the basis that the appeal may be withdrawn,” he said.

Sounds like weasels trying to tell the planning board what to do again

his mates must be upset that they may loose out on their Christmas bonus

lost out on pavilion site

trying to buy out land from developers that have council planning approval because he wants to spend 10 million of tax payers money on CPO for Exeter rd car park

now he is now stating he does not approve some one else's idea for winter gardens,after his mate got caught with both hands in cookie jar

i have better idea ASK THE PEOPLE OF BOURNEMOUTH WHAT THEY WANT BUILT ON THE LAND instead of trying to dictate to residents what he wants
You should know by know that Beesley's utterances have the gravitas of a queef........
[quote][p][bold]wonderway[/bold] wrote: But the meeting heard concerns from council leader and ward councillor Cllr John Beesley. “I don’t believe the local planning authority should in any way be pushed into making a decision on a fresh outline application on the basis that the appeal may be withdrawn,” he said. Sounds like weasels trying to tell the planning board what to do again his mates must be upset that they may loose out on their Christmas bonus lost out on pavilion site trying to buy out land from developers that have council planning approval because he wants to spend 10 million of tax payers money on CPO for Exeter rd car park now he is now stating he does not approve some one else's idea for winter gardens,after his mate got caught with both hands in cookie jar i have better idea ASK THE PEOPLE OF BOURNEMOUTH WHAT THEY WANT BUILT ON THE LAND instead of trying to dictate to residents what he wants[/p][/quote]You should know by know that Beesley's utterances have the gravitas of a queef........ O'Reilly
  • Score: 1

9:30pm Thu 24 Apr 14

eaststandman says...

Should be left as a car park ..........shame it can't be made into a beautiful open space to try and uplift this revolting shambles that the town centre has become.
Should be left as a car park ..........shame it can't be made into a beautiful open space to try and uplift this revolting shambles that the town centre has become. eaststandman
  • Score: 1

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