Councillor defends eight staff caught speeding in Poole council vehicles

Bournemouth Echo: HUMAN ERROR: Borough of Poole’s fleet of vehicles HUMAN ERROR: Borough of Poole’s fleet of vehicles

A POOLE cabinet portfolio holder has defended council staff after the Daily Echo reported that eight had been caught speeding in Borough of Poole vehicles.

Cllr Xena Dion’s portfolio includes transportation and environment and consumer protection, services whose staff accounted for six of the eight to receive penalty points.

The Echo reported that eight staff driving branded council vehicles were penalised for breaking the law between January 2013 and January 2014.

“Whilst not condoning any driving offence, to make a big issue over what is a very common error of judgment is to do the people concerned a total disservice,” she said.

She pointed out the council employed more than 3,000 staff and, like in other public services, many were expected to make journeys for their work.

“I am defending common sense and human behaviour,” she said.

“As councillors, most of us value the staff and the work they do.

“In today’s employment culture it is considered more appropriate and more productive for people to learn from mistakes made and endeavour to avoid making them again rather than punish and impose sanctions,” she said.

“The Echo could just as easily look at any other large public service employer and ask for the same information and I very much doubt they would find a different story.

“We are, after all, human and susceptible to making occasional mistakes.

“That is hardly a reason to attack staff who are, on the whole, providing a good and valued service,” she said.

However, she added that the Echo’s report did serve to highlight that staff needed to be “a bit more careful”.

The council took no sanctions against the drivers and has allowed them to continue driving its vehicles.

The Echo has also revealed that a driver of the borough’s “spy camera” car was caught speeding in January by the Dorset Road Safe camera van, and on another occasion the “spy camera” car was seen to jump a red traffic light.

Call for borough to review its training policies

DAVE Nichols from road safety charity Brake said: “Breaking traffic laws is dangerous and driving above the speed limit, even by a small amount, puts lives at risk.

“Speed is one of the biggest killers on roads; causing appalling suffering to families Brake supports. Everyone who drives, especially those who use their vehicles for work, should abide by speed limits and respect other road users.”

Neil Greig of the Institute of Advanced Motorists, added: “This story shows that Borough of Poole need to review their driver risk management policy and make it absolutely clear what is expected from their staff.

“Local authorities should always seek to implement best practice in driver training and fleet control. This would include informing employees about acceptable behaviour and putting in place opportunities for training or refreshing skills.

“With the proper polices in place this sort of story should not occur again.”

Comments (20)

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5:46am Fri 21 Feb 14

ShuttleX says...

It is well known that I am not a great lover of Council Management, but on this occasion I totally agree with Cllr Dions comments. Come on the Echo, lets hear from your Lord and Master Mr Beesley. Let us hear the same for Bournemouth and Christchurch. Come to that, lets hear how many Echo staff have been caught breaking the law in the same time. You really are scraping the barrel for a story aren't you. Your bone lazy, so called journalists can't be bothered to actually do proper investigations, you would much rather hammer away at the easy targets. Despite you being sent information regarding corruption in the Town Hall, you still refuse to say any nasty words against your Boss. That is the reason people still think you are a local rag, good for a bit of entertainment, but not to be taken seriously as a purveyor of news. You can do your usual trick of deleting any posts that criticize you, but it doesn't alter the fact that your level of journalism is getting as low as it can possible go.
It is well known that I am not a great lover of Council Management, but on this occasion I totally agree with Cllr Dions comments. Come on the Echo, lets hear from your Lord and Master Mr Beesley. Let us hear the same for Bournemouth and Christchurch. Come to that, lets hear how many Echo staff have been caught breaking the law in the same time. You really are scraping the barrel for a story aren't you. Your bone lazy, so called journalists can't be bothered to actually do proper investigations, you would much rather hammer away at the easy targets. Despite you being sent information regarding corruption in the Town Hall, you still refuse to say any nasty words against your Boss. That is the reason people still think you are a local rag, good for a bit of entertainment, but not to be taken seriously as a purveyor of news. You can do your usual trick of deleting any posts that criticize you, but it doesn't alter the fact that your level of journalism is getting as low as it can possible go. ShuttleX

7:07am Fri 21 Feb 14

Talkingheadera says...

It's a shame an error of judgement isn't how the law sees it though isn't it.
I don't think the police when stopping you would say don't worry about you're error of judgement. I won't be handing you a fine.!
It's a shame an error of judgement isn't how the law sees it though isn't it. I don't think the police when stopping you would say don't worry about you're error of judgement. I won't be handing you a fine.! Talkingheadera

7:18am Fri 21 Feb 14

Baysider says...

Talkingheadera wrote:
It's a shame an error of judgement isn't how the law sees it though isn't it.
I don't think the police when stopping you would say don't worry about you're error of judgement. I won't be handing you a fine.!
Oh for gawds sake can we not move on from this ridiculous waste of time story? A tiny, tiny amout of drivers got done for speeding in council vehicles from the 10,000's of journeys it's employees must do every year. THEY paid their fine and got the points on THEIR license but that's not enough for some who want to use it as yet another excuse to council bash.

"Reviewing driver risk management policy", yeah because that's the most important issue LA's are facing at the moment isn't it...
[quote][p][bold]Talkingheadera[/bold] wrote: It's a shame an error of judgement isn't how the law sees it though isn't it. I don't think the police when stopping you would say don't worry about you're error of judgement. I won't be handing you a fine.![/p][/quote]Oh for gawds sake can we not move on from this ridiculous waste of time story? A tiny, tiny amout of drivers got done for speeding in council vehicles from the 10,000's of journeys it's employees must do every year. THEY paid their fine and got the points on THEIR license but that's not enough for some who want to use it as yet another excuse to council bash. "Reviewing driver risk management policy", yeah because that's the most important issue LA's are facing at the moment isn't it... Baysider

7:34am Fri 21 Feb 14

kalebmoledirt says...

This was not news first time around.now it's tedious.It's not the council that needs to apologize it's the individuals and they have done so by way of fines to the court .Would you prefer the council sacks them so you can claim some sort of result from your daft campaign.Sure most of your journalists have received fines and cautions for riding on the pavement
This was not news first time around.now it's tedious.It's not the council that needs to apologize it's the individuals and they have done so by way of fines to the court .Would you prefer the council sacks them so you can claim some sort of result from your daft campaign.Sure most of your journalists have received fines and cautions for riding on the pavement kalebmoledirt

7:58am Fri 21 Feb 14

oy@Bmth says...

Yes this is an old story and has been reopened by the Cllr Dions' statement. What Cllr Xena Dion seems to forget and in doing so insults the 2,992 staff who have not committed motoring offenses is at the end of the day these staff have broken the LAW. Also as there offenses seem to have all happened when driving Council vehicles with the Poole Council logo on them it brings the council into disrepute. What adds insult to locals, is some of these vehicles are Traffic Enforcement vehicles so are the transportation and environment and consumer protection services saying or condoning one law for tax payers and exemption of the law for council enforcement officers, even the 999 service have to observe motoring laws and are only allowed certain exemptions in specific circumstances. Private companies have on the back of their vehicles “Am I being driven badly? call xxx if I am” and if they drive badly they can be dismissed for misconduct, just ask UNITE.
Yes this is an old story and has been reopened by the Cllr Dions' statement. What Cllr Xena Dion seems to forget and in doing so insults the 2,992 staff who have not committed motoring offenses is at the end of the day these staff have broken the LAW. Also as there offenses seem to have all happened when driving Council vehicles with the Poole Council logo on them it brings the council into disrepute. What adds insult to locals, is some of these vehicles are Traffic Enforcement vehicles so are the transportation and environment and consumer protection services saying or condoning one law for tax payers and exemption of the law for council enforcement officers, even the 999 service have to observe motoring laws and are only allowed certain exemptions in specific circumstances. Private companies have on the back of their vehicles “Am I being driven badly? call xxx if I am” and if they drive badly they can be dismissed for misconduct, just ask UNITE. oy@Bmth

8:10am Fri 21 Feb 14

Carolyn43 says...

Just how many titles does Xena Dion have? Is she being lined up to be council leader when Atkinson resigns?
Just how many titles does Xena Dion have? Is she being lined up to be council leader when Atkinson resigns? Carolyn43

8:45am Fri 21 Feb 14

pete woodley says...

Carolyn43 wrote:
Just how many titles does Xena Dion have? Is she being lined up to be council leader when Atkinson resigns?
You are right to be suspicious,but doubt any resignations,the old pals act works for most political parties,and the minnows like Poole people and Ukip,jump on the bandwagon.
[quote][p][bold]Carolyn43[/bold] wrote: Just how many titles does Xena Dion have? Is she being lined up to be council leader when Atkinson resigns?[/p][/quote]You are right to be suspicious,but doubt any resignations,the old pals act works for most political parties,and the minnows like Poole people and Ukip,jump on the bandwagon. pete woodley

8:48am Fri 21 Feb 14

PokesdownMark says...

Talkingheadera wrote:
It's a shame an error of judgement isn't how the law sees it though isn't it.
I don't think the police when stopping you would say don't worry about you're error of judgement. I won't be handing you a fine.!
Actually, in situations where a driver is only 1 or 2 mph over the limit, their driving was otherwise fine, eg no tailgating at the time, their vehicle is in good order and they show appropriate attitude after some guidance - this is exactly what the police may do and rightly so!
[quote][p][bold]Talkingheadera[/bold] wrote: It's a shame an error of judgement isn't how the law sees it though isn't it. I don't think the police when stopping you would say don't worry about you're error of judgement. I won't be handing you a fine.![/p][/quote]Actually, in situations where a driver is only 1 or 2 mph over the limit, their driving was otherwise fine, eg no tailgating at the time, their vehicle is in good order and they show appropriate attitude after some guidance - this is exactly what the police may do and rightly so! PokesdownMark

10:54am Fri 21 Feb 14

mikey2gorgeous says...

oy@Bmth wrote:
Yes this is an old story and has been reopened by the Cllr Dions' statement. What Cllr Xena Dion seems to forget and in doing so insults the 2,992 staff who have not committed motoring offenses is at the end of the day these staff have broken the LAW. Also as there offenses seem to have all happened when driving Council vehicles with the Poole Council logo on them it brings the council into disrepute. What adds insult to locals, is some of these vehicles are Traffic Enforcement vehicles so are the transportation and environment and consumer protection services saying or condoning one law for tax payers and exemption of the law for council enforcement officers, even the 999 service have to observe motoring laws and are only allowed certain exemptions in specific circumstances. Private companies have on the back of their vehicles “Am I being driven badly? call xxx if I am” and if they drive badly they can be dismissed for misconduct, just ask UNITE.
I think you mean the 2,992 staff who weren't caught. Given that we know for a fact that over 50% of drivers admit to breaking speed limits on a regular basis your statement that they haven't committed offences is a bit sweeping to say the least!
[quote][p][bold]oy@Bmth[/bold] wrote: Yes this is an old story and has been reopened by the Cllr Dions' statement. What Cllr Xena Dion seems to forget and in doing so insults the 2,992 staff who have not committed motoring offenses is at the end of the day these staff have broken the LAW. Also as there offenses seem to have all happened when driving Council vehicles with the Poole Council logo on them it brings the council into disrepute. What adds insult to locals, is some of these vehicles are Traffic Enforcement vehicles so are the transportation and environment and consumer protection services saying or condoning one law for tax payers and exemption of the law for council enforcement officers, even the 999 service have to observe motoring laws and are only allowed certain exemptions in specific circumstances. Private companies have on the back of their vehicles “Am I being driven badly? call xxx if I am” and if they drive badly they can be dismissed for misconduct, just ask UNITE.[/p][/quote]I think you mean the 2,992 staff who weren't caught. Given that we know for a fact that over 50% of drivers admit to breaking speed limits on a regular basis your statement that they haven't committed offences is a bit sweeping to say the least! mikey2gorgeous

11:41am Fri 21 Feb 14

muscliffman says...

This is getting silly, these Poole Council employees made a mistake and committed a minor driving offence, the same one that 'but for the grace of...' any of us motorists are doubtless guilty of, at least if we are honest with ourselves.

But why does the Echo keep knocking Poole Council and staff - do your apparently very close Council friends in Bournemouth Town Hall all have unblemished clean driving licences- or do they all have 'halos' above their heads?
This is getting silly, these Poole Council employees made a mistake and committed a minor driving offence, the same one that 'but for the grace of...' any of us motorists are doubtless guilty of, at least if we are honest with ourselves. But why does the Echo keep knocking Poole Council and staff - do your apparently very close Council friends in Bournemouth Town Hall all have unblemished clean driving licences- or do they all have 'halos' above their heads? muscliffman

11:50am Fri 21 Feb 14

John T says...

Cllr Dion said 'The Echo could just as easily look at any other large public service employer and ask for the same information and I very much doubt if they would find a different story'.
It is a shame they can't look at any large local private sector employer like Chase Manhattan or Barclays, or some small-minded employer like the Echo or United Taxis where they would get a different story, i.e. lies, deceit and cover ups.
Cllr Dion said 'The Echo could just as easily look at any other large public service employer and ask for the same information and I very much doubt if they would find a different story'. It is a shame they can't look at any large local private sector employer like Chase Manhattan or Barclays, or some small-minded employer like the Echo or United Taxis where they would get a different story, i.e. lies, deceit and cover ups. John T

12:20pm Fri 21 Feb 14

kalebmoledirt says...

oy@Bmth wrote:
Yes this is an old story and has been reopened by the Cllr Dions' statement. What Cllr Xena Dion seems to forget and in doing so insults the 2,992 staff who have not committed motoring offenses is at the end of the day these staff have broken the LAW. Also as there offenses seem to have all happened when driving Council vehicles with the Poole Council logo on them it brings the council into disrepute. What adds insult to locals, is some of these vehicles are Traffic Enforcement vehicles so are the transportation and environment and consumer protection services saying or condoning one law for tax payers and exemption of the law for council enforcement officers, even the 999 service have to observe motoring laws and are only allowed certain exemptions in specific circumstances. Private companies have on the back of their vehicles “Am I being driven badly? call xxx if I am” and if they drive badly they can be dismissed for misconduct, just ask UNITE.
To begin with I do NOT feel offended or insulted when a council worker gets caught for some driving offence and then as to pay his/her fine from their own wages neither am I offended when community nurses, midwife's,social workers, doctors ,or anybody going about their work and get caught they pay the fine not the NHS.so jumping on the daily dribble bandwagon trying to demonize ordinary working people is petty.like so many others I don't care
[quote][p][bold]oy@Bmth[/bold] wrote: Yes this is an old story and has been reopened by the Cllr Dions' statement. What Cllr Xena Dion seems to forget and in doing so insults the 2,992 staff who have not committed motoring offenses is at the end of the day these staff have broken the LAW. Also as there offenses seem to have all happened when driving Council vehicles with the Poole Council logo on them it brings the council into disrepute. What adds insult to locals, is some of these vehicles are Traffic Enforcement vehicles so are the transportation and environment and consumer protection services saying or condoning one law for tax payers and exemption of the law for council enforcement officers, even the 999 service have to observe motoring laws and are only allowed certain exemptions in specific circumstances. Private companies have on the back of their vehicles “Am I being driven badly? call xxx if I am” and if they drive badly they can be dismissed for misconduct, just ask UNITE.[/p][/quote]To begin with I do NOT feel offended or insulted when a council worker gets caught for some driving offence and then as to pay his/her fine from their own wages neither am I offended when community nurses, midwife's,social workers, doctors ,or anybody going about their work and get caught they pay the fine not the NHS.so jumping on the daily dribble bandwagon trying to demonize ordinary working people is petty.like so many others I don't care kalebmoledirt

12:22pm Fri 21 Feb 14

kalebmoledirt says...

oy@Bmth wrote:
Yes this is an old story and has been reopened by the Cllr Dions' statement. What Cllr Xena Dion seems to forget and in doing so insults the 2,992 staff who have not committed motoring offenses is at the end of the day these staff have broken the LAW. Also as there offenses seem to have all happened when driving Council vehicles with the Poole Council logo on them it brings the council into disrepute. What adds insult to locals, is some of these vehicles are Traffic Enforcement vehicles so are the transportation and environment and consumer protection services saying or condoning one law for tax payers and exemption of the law for council enforcement officers, even the 999 service have to observe motoring laws and are only allowed certain exemptions in specific circumstances. Private companies have on the back of their vehicles “Am I being driven badly? call xxx if I am” and if they drive badly they can be dismissed for misconduct, just ask UNITE.
To begin with I do NOT feel offended or insulted when a council worker gets caught for some driving offence and then as to pay his/her fine from their own wages neither am I offended when community nurses, midwife's,social workers, doctors ,or anybody going about their work and get caught they pay the fine not the NHS.so jumping on the daily dribble bandwagon trying to demonize ordinary working people is petty.like so many others I don't care
[quote][p][bold]oy@Bmth[/bold] wrote: Yes this is an old story and has been reopened by the Cllr Dions' statement. What Cllr Xena Dion seems to forget and in doing so insults the 2,992 staff who have not committed motoring offenses is at the end of the day these staff have broken the LAW. Also as there offenses seem to have all happened when driving Council vehicles with the Poole Council logo on them it brings the council into disrepute. What adds insult to locals, is some of these vehicles are Traffic Enforcement vehicles so are the transportation and environment and consumer protection services saying or condoning one law for tax payers and exemption of the law for council enforcement officers, even the 999 service have to observe motoring laws and are only allowed certain exemptions in specific circumstances. Private companies have on the back of their vehicles “Am I being driven badly? call xxx if I am” and if they drive badly they can be dismissed for misconduct, just ask UNITE.[/p][/quote]To begin with I do NOT feel offended or insulted when a council worker gets caught for some driving offence and then as to pay his/her fine from their own wages neither am I offended when community nurses, midwife's,social workers, doctors ,or anybody going about their work and get caught they pay the fine not the NHS.so jumping on the daily dribble bandwagon trying to demonize ordinary working people is petty.like so many others I don't care kalebmoledirt

2:59pm Fri 21 Feb 14

Chris the plumber says...

Breaking traffic laws is dangerous and driving above the speed limit, even by a small amount, puts lives at risk. Speed kills and speeding by our public
servants is far worse. these people should loose their job and their licences
.. These public workers have a duty NOT to have error of judgment that what we pay you for .... and I wonder if Cllr Xena Dion would say the same thing if they were all caught for drink driving ?? Cllr Xena Dion should hold her hear bin shame and if she is no sacked by the end of next week I would be surprised..
Breaking traffic laws is dangerous and driving above the speed limit, even by a small amount, puts lives at risk. Speed kills and speeding by our public servants is far worse. these people should loose their job and their licences .. These public workers have a duty NOT to have error of judgment that what we pay you for .... and I wonder if Cllr Xena Dion would say the same thing if they were all caught for drink driving ?? Cllr Xena Dion should hold her hear bin shame and if she is no sacked by the end of next week I would be surprised.. Chris the plumber

5:00pm Fri 21 Feb 14

dorsetspeed says...

It does however seem particularly absurd that a vehicle of which the only purpose is to improve safety is caught twice for breaking traffic laws in a short amount of time.

But again we see obsessive statements about speed blowing the problem out of all proportion from "Chris the plumber" and Dave Nicols from Brake- "driving even a small amount above the limit puts lives at risk" - a perfect example of total and absolute nonsense, dangerous nonsense as it diverts attention from competent and balanced road safety work., Again, the FACT is that speeding is NOT a significant factor in KSIs - about 7% and when other more significant factors may include vehicle theft, racing, drunk / drugged driving etc, the opportunities for casualty reduction through speed limits and enforcements are obviously next to nothing.
It does however seem particularly absurd that a vehicle of which the only purpose is to improve safety is caught twice for breaking traffic laws in a short amount of time. But again we see obsessive statements about speed blowing the problem out of all proportion from "Chris the plumber" and Dave Nicols from Brake- "driving even a small amount above the limit puts lives at risk" - a perfect example of total and absolute nonsense, dangerous nonsense as it diverts attention from competent and balanced road safety work., Again, the FACT is that speeding is NOT a significant factor in KSIs - about 7% and when other more significant factors may include vehicle theft, racing, drunk / drugged driving etc, the opportunities for casualty reduction through speed limits and enforcements are obviously next to nothing. dorsetspeed

8:15pm Fri 21 Feb 14

Chris the plumber says...

Dorset speed as usual is talking tosh, he is running scared because he knows that time in running out on the reckless speeders. Speed is a major
factor in the injuries, if any that you sustain dring a collision .. The Horton inn motorcyclist would still be alive if he was doing 30 mph instead of 80+
the lady killed by a speeding car of Herbert ave 2 evening ago would be alive if the car was not speeding, and I do not mean just exceeding the legal limit of 30, on a wet dark night with limited view of the road ahead 20mph would be more suitable. 60mph max for a large part of the M3 will be in place soon, 50 for the spur road and 50 from picket post to ashley heath, they will all come .. So Mr dorset speed would you also say drink driving is just a small error of judgement like speeding because I do believe that speeding will also become as anti social as drink driving.
Dorset speed as usual is talking tosh, he is running scared because he knows that time in running out on the reckless speeders. Speed is a major factor in the injuries, if any that you sustain dring a collision .. The Horton inn motorcyclist would still be alive if he was doing 30 mph instead of 80+ the lady killed by a speeding car of Herbert ave 2 evening ago would be alive if the car was not speeding, and I do not mean just exceeding the legal limit of 30, on a wet dark night with limited view of the road ahead 20mph would be more suitable. 60mph max for a large part of the M3 will be in place soon, 50 for the spur road and 50 from picket post to ashley heath, they will all come .. So Mr dorset speed would you also say drink driving is just a small error of judgement like speeding because I do believe that speeding will also become as anti social as drink driving. Chris the plumber

8:51am Sat 22 Feb 14

Teddy 1 says...

Surprised the cllr concerned is going against her normal supportive line with regards police work, speifically speeding. Is she really sending out the right message with speeding being acceptable?? Especially as her councill invests so heaily in road safety and are committed to making the area safely afterall she has a great team . I would think health and safety should be engrained in the culture written into empt contracts. Wake up cllr and get real..there are times when mistakes are made and times to admit you are wrong
Surprised the cllr concerned is going against her normal supportive line with regards police work, speifically speeding. Is she really sending out the right message with speeding being acceptable?? Especially as her councill invests so heaily in road safety and are committed to making the area safely afterall she has a great team . I would think health and safety should be engrained in the culture written into empt contracts. Wake up cllr and get real..there are times when mistakes are made and times to admit you are wrong Teddy 1

12:06pm Sat 22 Feb 14

dorsetspeed says...

Chris the Plumber, if I wanted to speed I would be quite happy with the way things are going, limits which are totally unrealistic and can be ignored and predictable enforcements covering such a small proportion of road space, and no proper traffic cops providing a deterrent everywhere.

Of course there are extreme cases of speeding, but you won't find police attempting to do anything about that, they will be where they can make the most money for the minimum effort, and has been seen recently, regardless of whether they actually cause a danger in the process.

Of course drinking and driving is not just a small error of judgement (although it could become if the threshold is reduced to zero).
Chris the Plumber, if I wanted to speed I would be quite happy with the way things are going, limits which are totally unrealistic and can be ignored and predictable enforcements covering such a small proportion of road space, and no proper traffic cops providing a deterrent everywhere. Of course there are extreme cases of speeding, but you won't find police attempting to do anything about that, they will be where they can make the most money for the minimum effort, and has been seen recently, regardless of whether they actually cause a danger in the process. Of course drinking and driving is not just a small error of judgement (although it could become if the threshold is reduced to zero). dorsetspeed

7:45am Sun 23 Feb 14

RM says...

Speeding -an error of judgement that often causes injury or death Cllr Dion.
Speeding -an error of judgement that often causes injury or death Cllr Dion. RM

7:34am Tue 25 Feb 14

tbpoole says...

dorsetspeed wrote:
Chris the Plumber, if I wanted to speed I would be quite happy with the way things are going, limits which are totally unrealistic and can be ignored and predictable enforcements covering such a small proportion of road space, and no proper traffic cops providing a deterrent everywhere.

Of course there are extreme cases of speeding, but you won't find police attempting to do anything about that, they will be where they can make the most money for the minimum effort, and has been seen recently, regardless of whether they actually cause a danger in the process.

Of course drinking and driving is not just a small error of judgement (although it could become if the threshold is reduced to zero).
Smugness personified?
[quote][p][bold]dorsetspeed[/bold] wrote: Chris the Plumber, if I wanted to speed I would be quite happy with the way things are going, limits which are totally unrealistic and can be ignored and predictable enforcements covering such a small proportion of road space, and no proper traffic cops providing a deterrent everywhere. Of course there are extreme cases of speeding, but you won't find police attempting to do anything about that, they will be where they can make the most money for the minimum effort, and has been seen recently, regardless of whether they actually cause a danger in the process. Of course drinking and driving is not just a small error of judgement (although it could become if the threshold is reduced to zero).[/p][/quote]Smugness personified? tbpoole

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