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Police Comissioner Elections: live results (From Bournemouth Echo)
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Police Comissioner Elections: live results
8:52am Friday 16th November 2012 in News
This live event has finished
Latest
- Independent Martyn Underhill has been elected as Dorset's Police and Crime Commissioner
- Turnout for yesterday's election is believed to have been around 15 per cent nationally
- Candidates for Dorset were Rachel Rogers, Nick King, Andy Canning and Martyn Underhill
- The count took place at Lighthouse Poole.
- Turnout across Dorset is believed to be 16.8%, ranging from 13.32% in Bournemouth to 21.56% in West Dorset
4:45pm
Here's Martyn Underhill speaking after he was declared winner of the election:
4:12pm
We're just working on a video interview with winning candidate Martyn Underhill, which we hope to have live shortly.
3:26pm
Bournemouth West MP Conor Burns has said the government will regret introducing the role of PPC and he regrets voting for the bill that introduced the job.
And he said the elections should not have been held in autumn.
“What on Earth were we thinking going to the polls in November? This should have happened, if they were going to have it at all, at the local elections,” he said.
But he claimed Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg had not wanted the law and order to be an issue during government elections.
“It was £80million placating Mr Clegg and opening polling stations around the country for the worst turnout in an election in British history,” he said.
He also said it was a mistake not to allow each candidate a free mailshot to electors as happened in parliamentary and European elections. He said this had denied information the seven per cent of people without internet access.
2:23pm
And so it ends with 51930 votes for Martyn Underhill and 34451 for Nick King after second count. #dorset has an Independent pcc
— @MelVassEcho 16 November 2012
2:16pm
Result formally announced - figures to come shortly. But Mr Underhill says that after a "bloody campaign" now is the time to heal. He says his victory sends a message to govt that the public will not accept political interference in the police
2:05pm
And from west Dorset - 588 for Nick King and 1667 for Martyn Underhill, whose victory is going to be formally announced in 5 mins
2:03pm
Tables and chairs being packed away now, Martyn Underhill surrounded by jubilant family and getting lots of hugs from partner Debs
1:57pm
Disappointed Conservative candidate Nick King leaves the count before the declaration.
1:56pm
Lib Dem candidate Andy Canning is only other candidate still here, the local pubs must be doing well today
1:54pm
Poole's second preferences - 680 for Nick King and 1534 for Martyn Underhill
and Bournemouth - 705 for Nick King and 1695 for Martyn Underhill
just west Dorset to go
1:53pm
Tension in the Conservative ranks
1:46pm
Martyn Underhill sent this tweet earlier
We go to the second count, I am ahead on first count, but short of 50%. Thank you the people of Dorset. Looks... http://t.co/CvP0OxTY
— @Tosh599 16 November 2012
1:45pm
Purbeck's second preferences
282 for Nick King, 619 for Martyn Underhill and 457 for eliminated candidates
1:42pm
Second preferences from christchurch
170 for Nick King, 463 for Martyn Underhill and 258 for eliminated ccandidates.
and from East Dorset 301 for Nick King and 764 for Martyn Underhill. 586 for eliminated candidates
1:39pm
Second preferences from Weymouth and Portland
309 for Nick King, 1040 for Martyn Underhill and 728 for eliminated candidates
1:35pm
1:23pm Fri 16 Nov 12
rayc says
roboman1984 wrote:Politics is already in policing. The ACPO is a politically motivated organisation and Chief Constables are looking at getting an award such as a knighthood or MBE. The Police Federation also has political motives.
Re: The Police Commissioners
I think this whole enterprise has been a colossal waste of money. When one considers the cost for employing polling clerks, polling officers not to mention the cost of vote count staff, voting literature and venue hire – all this for a national voting turnout of 16% (due in no small part to the lack of information available) it feels like a wasted exercise.
Each police commissioner will be paid between £60,000 and £100, 000 and each one will tell us what we want to hear i.e. “Making crime fighting the priority”, “more police on the streets”. The police know their own job but they suffer from a lack of funding.
Instead of a police commissioner why not select a non paid body of public and community representatives who the public could go to. The money saved could have been put into the police force in order to improve man power and facilities. The public would have had a link with the police force and we could’ve kept politics out of policing.
I can't say that I think the outgoing Dorset Police Authority has done a fantastic job in giving Dorset Council Tax payers a good return for their money.
1:35pm
Second preferences in North Dorset
251 for Nick King and 723 for Martin Underhill. There were 415 for eliminated candidates.
1:30pm
It's a very different atmosphere in counting hall now, with virtually all the politicians gone.
it's a bit subdued as we wait to hear the inevitable
1:12pm
Nick King, who has not stuck around to hear the result declared, said Mr Underhill deserved his victory and had worked hard for it.
"I think an awful lot of people didn't understand the premise," he said. "And there was a backlash against parties.
"it shows that someone who's very well funded can overcome the volunteer advantage that we have.
"I really want him to build the links with neighbourhood watches that he has promised and follow through on the promises on volunteers and special constables that he's made."
1:04pm
Rachel Rogers wished Mr Underhill all the best and said she hoped he honoured his obligations to represent all the people of Dorset and to maintain an open, honest and transparent connection with the people that voted for him - and those that didn'tdidn't
1:00pm
@MelVassEcho how close can it be when only 16% of people voted. Such a waste of time
— @JosephCurtis4 16 November 2012
12:59pm
Counting of second preferences now underway
12:54pm
Andy Canning warned that Martyn Underhill would have an "uphill struggle" in the job because of lack of media coverage and public interest.
He added that the panel that will scrutinise Mr Underhill and his work was dominated by Conservatives and could hinder his efforts
12:51pm
But the local Labour Party are pleased with their share of the vote in Weymouth and Bournemouth.
And both defeated candidates said they enjoyed the campaign and found it a great experience
12:49pm
12:37pm Fri 16 Nov 12
calmdowndear says
Who ever gets this useless job will be paid 70,000 pounds a year,it takes me over 3 and half years to earn that and as some are council members i expect they have other income aswell,so no wonder people have no interest.
12:48pm
Rachel Rogers, Labour candidate, said: "frankly I think the government has failed the public entirely here. They've failed to publicise the election effectively, they've held it at the wrong time of year and they've wasted money on these elections at a time of police cuts."
12:45pm
Interesting facts about the spoilt papers, there were loads with comments stating the process was a sham and lots with rather explicit drawings on them. Instead of putting a cross, many drew something else entirely...
12:40pm
Andy Canning, Lib Dem candidate, said: "I think there's an overwhelming rejection of the concept of Pccs - the low turnout and high number of spoilt ballot papers and the fact that the non party candidate is going to win are signs that people didn't want this in the first place."
12:36pm
So the Labour and Lib Dem candidates are out of the contest now and the second preferences on their votes are now being counted.
Interestingly, neither are hanging around. I think Martyn Underhill will be on the stage on his own when he is declared the winner
12:26pm
12:11pm
That petition we mentioned earlier "My non-vote was a No vote" is now getting five new signatures a minute.
12:07pm
Electoral returning officer Paul Morris is going to formally announce the stage one results in 5 minutes
12:06pm
Final voting figures from East Dorset
Canning 893
King 4540
Rogers 940
Underhill 6476
12:03pm
If you're not registered to comment and you have something to add, you can email newsdesk@bournemouthecho.co.uk
11:48am
Bournemouth's vote is in and it's clear it will now go to a second round, where second preferences are counted.
Canning 1511
King 6543
Rogers 2988
Underhill 7329
11:46am
And the telltale piles of votes...
11:45am
11:45am
11:44am
Some pictures from Richard Crease at the count:
11:43am
It will be interesting to see whether the other candidates share a stage with Martyn Underhill when he is declared the winner. There's definitely a bit of tension there
11:42am
@Bournemouthecho can you let us know how many spoiled votes were polled?
— @ajjolley 16 November 2012
11:41am
On a separate note, there seem to be quite a lot of spoilt ballot papers - some people have definitely take the opportunity to make a stand
11:39am
West dorset has voted like this
Canning 2763
King 4952
Rogers 1720
Underhill 7120
11:37am
We are waiting on results from Bournemouth, East Dorset and West Dorset. Martyn Underhill would love to win it in the first round.
11:34am
11:23am Fri 16 Nov 12
TimAFCB says
I feel angry that I could not use my vote. I would normally vote Conservative during a General Election but I have been known to vote Liberal for Local Elections. Rather than just voting for the party I would usually vote for (which I feel a lot of people who cast votes have done) or taken the line to keep politics out of Policing and voted Independant (possibly funded by a property landlord with a dubious reputation), I am very afraid the wrong person for the job will be elected because of the lack of information available.
11:34am
11:23am Fri 16 Nov 12
Humf says
Drastic police cutbacks in every force and several million pounds wasted on electing a person we know little about or know little about what the job actually they are going to do.
People made their vote by not bothering to.
11:28am
It seems pretty clear now that Dorset's first PCC will be Independent Martyn Underhill. Just a question of whether he can do it in the first round.
I think there's been a backlash against political candidates, and Martyn's police experience has clearly gone down well with voters
11:27am
For those interested, here's what the Dorset Police Federation has to say about the election and turnout:
Vote counting for Dorset #PCC Election has started. 16.8% turnout - very poor http://t.co/7prDT7qK
— @DorsetPoliceFed 16 November 2012
RT @MrCliveC: I imagine more people are voting in TV Polls: XFactor - "I'm a Celebrity" etc. - than did in yesterday's £100m #PCC elections debacle
— @DorsetPoliceFed 16 November 2012
RT @MrCliveC: Lesson from #PCC debacle: Govt can listen to ThinkTank Policy Exchange but should do the opposite of what they advise to avoid embarrassment
— @DorsetPoliceFed 16 November 2012
11:21am
@Bournemouthecho These results look to be humiliating for the #LibDems. Beaten by Labour in North Dorset!? No longer challengers anywhere.
— @dbremz 16 November 2012
11:21am
Poole's results
Canning 1958
King 5820
Rogers 2078
Underhill 8219
11:10am
Christchurch results
Canning 417, King 2061, Rogers 635, Underhill 3548
11:08am
Again, Martyn can't quite get to 50% but very close
11:07am
Provisional results from north dorset
Andy Canning, 782
Nick King, 3583
Rachel Rogers 837
Martyn Underhill 4074
11:03am
Martyn Underhill is picking up an awful lot of votes but getting 50% of the first preferences is a big ask. It's definitely possible though
11:00am
Provisional results from Weymouth and Portland - Andy Canning, lib Dem, 788, Nick King, Conservative, 1643, Rachel Rogers, Labour, 1711 and Independent Martyn Underhill 3809
10:51am
Votes from Purbeck region are as follows -851 for Andy canning, 2023 for nick king, 713 for Rachel Rodgers and 2850 for Martyn Underhill
10:43am
9:50am Fri 16 Nov 12
The Seasider says
If I was a betting man, my betting slip (for Dorset) would be:
Winner: Independent candidate
2nd: Tory
3rd: Labour
4th: Lib Dem
Turnout: 14%
I dont expect it will take very long to find out how wrong I am!
10:41am
The general feeling is it will go to a second round. Candidate needs 50% of votes after first count to be declared winner at that stage. If they fall short of this figure, second preferences will be counted
10:32am
People avidly monitoring the ballot papers believe it's close between Conservative Nick King and Independent Martyn Underhill
10:29am
Poole's turnout was 16.073%, Christchurch's 17.338%, East Dorset 18.276%, 18.110% in North Dorset, 18.335% in Purbeck and 15.925% in Weymouth and Portland
10:22am
I've got some details on turnout, it ranges from 13.32% in Bournemouth to 21.56% in West Dorset. I think everyone knew it would be low but Bournemouth's figure is particularly disappointing
10:21am
The BBC are reporting at 16.8% turnout for Dorset.
10:20am
10:18am Fri 16 Nov 12
isthisit says
One reason for a poor turnout was lack of publicity other reason is that there isn't much point as nothing really changes as central government in London control everything,and until we have a change from the three main parties nothing will.
10:14am
RT @MelVassEcho: The scene at the Lighthouse, as the count begins http://t.co/Ntwera4q
— @Bournemouthecho 16 November 2012
10:07am
@Bournemouthecho Whoever wins, w. a mandate of less than 17%, the public, the force and the idea of policing by consent will all lose.
— @dbremz 16 November 2012
10:03am
I've just arrived at the count, it is a veritable hive of activity. All the votes are being sorted and it seems like every politician in Dorset is here watching proceedings.
10:01am
Oops. A power cut in Upton means people voting at the community centre are doing so by torchlight at the moment.
— @Nickking 15 November 2012
9:52am
Our first prediction from the comments...
9:50am Fri 16 Nov 12
The Seasider says
If I was a betting man, my betting slip (for Dorset) would be:
Winner: Independent candidate
2nd: Tory
3rd: Labour
4th: Lib Dem
Turnout: 14%
I dont expect it will take very long to find out how wrong I am!
9:52am
I've just been pointed in the direction of this petition, created by a man from Dorset. It says:
The undersigned believe that the current Police and Crime Commissioner positions, as enacted in the Police Reform and Social Responsibility Act that became law 2011, are fundamentally flawed.
Since there was no way of expressing this during the election we, the undersigned, were forced to:
* not vote
* spoil our ballot
* vote for the candidate that would do the least harm
We wish to express that this was not an act of apathy, or an uninformed electorate, but a deliberate decision.
As a short term action by the government we would prefer a return to the old Police Authorities that, while flawed, are far superior to the new PCC roles.
779 people have signed it so far.
9:46am
For those of you who live over the border in Hampshire, the count there has also started
Counting has begun in Southampton for Hampshire and IoW Police Commissioner #pcc Low turnout so result soon? http://t.co/E0vgZ5vk
— @BBCPeterH 16 November 2012
9:43am
Lowest reported turnout so far is I think Coventry, at a paltry 11 per cent. A councillor there is reporting that only 6 per cent of that was at the polls with the rest postal votes. And two polling stations had no voters at all.
9:42am
Rachel Rogers posted last night that turnout in her home turf of Weymouth and Portland was 15.9%.
9:41am
Mel Vass is on her way to the count now, by the way, so we'll have updates from Lighthouse soon.
9:40am
Interesting fact: we've called in apathy in our story about low turn out today, but the piece we wrote yesterday about the elections was in fact the most-read of the day - which suggests it's not that many people don't care, it's that they really are opposed on principle.
The big question is, will that make it harder for the elected PCC to do their job?
9:37am
16.8 per cent comparatively not bad - but the turnout for the Branksome East byelection was nearly 30 per cent, which may have had a knock on effect.
Turnout for #pcc # dorset was 16.8% count starts at 9:30.
— @BoroughofPoole 16 November 2012
9:33am
9:33am Fri 16 Nov 12
TimAFCB says
Apart from a brief statement I could not find any information on any of the candidates on the internet at all. Lots of I will do this, I will do that if elected, but no explanations of how it would be funded or how many front line Police Officers would be cut in order to fund these ideas. I saw statements like 'I would provide a village Policeman' - Why? Rural areas have a lower crime rate than towns so why deploy resources where they are needed less? Chasing the rural vote?
9:32am
9:32am Fri 16 Nov 12
The Liberal says
Totally agree with Old Colonial and the smiling assassin. It's not apathy: many people simply don't see the need for an elected commissioner and are against the whole idea, so either didn't vote or spoiled their ballot papers. Why wasn't a ‘No Police and Crime Commissioner’ option on the ballot paper?
9:31am
@Bournemouthecho I've just read that the national turn out is going to be just under 14%. Proves my point really!!!!!!
— @kirschpc 16 November 2012
@Bournemouthecho Instead of spending MILLIONS on these pointless elections, shouldnt they just hired hundreds more Police and Nurses????
— @kirschpc 16 November 2012
9:26am
@Bournemouthecho We were unable to get out to the polls as a result of a major power cut last night... not all apathy.
— @stuafcb 16 November 2012
@Bournemouthecho I'll be interested to know how many people actually turned out to vote yesterday, to be precise, people under 60. Not many.
— @kirschpc 16 November 2012
9:23am
Just reading that in Greater Manchester, where there was also a byelection, turnout was just 13.5 per cent
9:22am
Here's what Labour's Yvette Cooper has said about the elections in general:
As the government's flagship police reform policy, these police and crime commissioner elections have been a complete shambles.
e warned the government repeatedly that they had the wrong approach and that turnout would be low. Theresa May and David Cameron didn't listen and it is shocking that they have spent £100m on these elections rather than on 3,000 police constables instead.
The Electoral Reform Society has described the Government's handling of these elections as a "comedy of errors."
ime and again on the doorstep people told us either they didn't have enough information, didn't know the elections were happening, didn't support them or didn't want to go out in the dark to vote.
Theresa May and David Cameron need to explain why they have spent so much money on elections that have had such low public support, why they provided so little public information and why they chose to hold elections in November too.
9:20am
8:44am Fri 16 Nov 12
Old Colonial says
This is not apathy. It's a rejection of the whole idea, together with disapproval of the candidates. If more people had turned out and just spoiled their voting papers it may have given a clearer indication of the general mood.
9:20am
8:43am Fri 16 Nov 12
the smiling assassin says
The reason many people haven’t voted has nothing to do with apathy. It’s simply because the majority of the population don’t see a need for an elected police commissioner! We don’t want the police, the NHS or any other public services to be politicised!
*
Added to the fact that there has been very little information provided regarding the who the candidates are and what they stand for means that people just don’t know who to vote for even if we wanted a police commissioner!
*
P.S. When I think ‘Police Commissioner’, I think of the 60’s TV series ‘Batman’ with the bumbling ineffective Chief of Police in Gotham City; Commissioner Gordon!!!
9:19am
8:22am Fri 16 Nov 12
boscombewizard says
It shouldn't take them long to count I guess. There had been 80 in at my station by 8:00 p.m.
It does increase the value of every vote.
9:17am
We had an interesting discussion in Echo Towers yesterday: non-voters arguing that a low turnout would send the message to the government that no-one really wants/understands/is interested in PCCs and the other side arguing that in four years time when this term is finished, the role will be so established that the low turnout this time round will be forgotten.
9:14am
@Bournemouthecho No one cares about these elections, no one knows who's in them, and again no one cares. I think I speak for the majority.
— @kirschpc 16 November 2012
9:02am
@VikkiMinxymoo @bournemouthecho I only got one information sheet delivered to home
— @tpphotography 16 November 2012
9:02am
@Bournemouthecho more like none of the info that were were told would come through arrived, so no one knew who to vote for!
— @VikkiMinxymoo 16 November 2012
8:58am
Asked about the low turnout in Wiltshire yestershire, the new PCC Angus Macpherson said the election was "less a mandate and more a large job interview". Thoughts?
8:56am
The count for all of Dorset starts at 9.30am at the Lighthouse Poole, we should know by mid afternoon!
— @Tosh599 16 November 2012
8:56am
RT @skymarkwhite: Some context re #PCCelections -Previous record low turnout in peacetime was 23% for Euro vote in 1999. Some areas reporting 10% PCC turnout
— @Tosh599 16 November 2012
8:55am
8:54am
Good morning from Echo Towers. Mel Vass will be your guide through today's count for the Police and Crime Comissioner election but it seems that turn out was dismal yesterday.
One polling station saw 50 people all day and another only 25 out of a potential 1500. We've been told by one voter that when they cast their vote at 6pm they were 55 and 56 out of 1500.
So, we don't expect the count to take a terribly long time, just based on the number of ballot papers.
Comments(70)
TimAFCB
says...
9:33am Fri 16 Nov 12
The Seasider
says...
9:50am Fri 16 Nov 12
Winner: Independent candidate
2nd: Tory
3rd: Labour
4th: Lib Dem
Turnout: 14%
I dont expect it will take very long to find out how wrong I am!
live-and-let-live
says...
9:51am Fri 16 Nov 12
isthisit
says...
10:18am Fri 16 Nov 12
Avengerboy
says...
10:32am Fri 16 Nov 12
Avengerboy
says...
10:36am Fri 16 Nov 12
The Liberal
says...
10:53am Fri 16 Nov 12
Avengerboy wrote:They'll just claim it's apathy or confusion – they'll probably even claim deliberately spoiled ballot papers are a result of confusion about the preferential voting system.
If the turnout is less than 25% .... scrap the whole idea.The Tories like to use low voting figures to hammer the Unions (representing ordinary British workers), I wonder how they will weasel out of this mess.
Humf
says...
11:23am Fri 16 Nov 12
People made their vote by not bothering to.
TimAFCB
says...
11:23am Fri 16 Nov 12
John T
says...
11:39am Fri 16 Nov 12
Well done to Martyn Underhill if he wins with so much deliberately stacked against him, e.g. no FREEPOST for candidates, ridiculously high deposit required from independent candidates and, of course, the promotion of Nick King by the Echo.
Melanie.Read12
says...
11:42am Fri 16 Nov 12
It would be very interesting to know these figures also - as some people have spoiled their paper, as an alternative to abstaining.
pd7
says...
11:50am Fri 16 Nov 12
John T
says...
12:07pm Fri 16 Nov 12
I DON'T KNOW AND I DON'T CARE!
calmdowndear
says...
12:37pm Fri 16 Nov 12
Nigel Blumenthal
says...
12:47pm Fri 16 Nov 12
Andy Canning, Lib Dem candidate, said: "I think there's an overwhelming rejection of the concept of Pccs - the low turnout and high number of spoilt ballot papers and the fact that the non party candidate is going to win are signs that people didn't want this in the first place."
.
Unmitigated rubbish, Andy. The low turnout and the high number of spoiled papers reflects a lack of publicity and preparedness on the part of the government, who conveniently forgot to explain this to anyone or to find funds to run it properly, and the high number of votes for the non-party candidate just reflects the total lack of trust that people have in any party politicians.
.
As usual, the Lib Dems are talking out of their backsides.
j neptune esq
says...
12:51pm Fri 16 Nov 12
This whole thing is utterly pointless. Underhill has the backing of 7% of the county.
rayc
says...
12:52pm Fri 16 Nov 12
If they thought like that then why run for the role?
boscombewizard
says...
12:56pm Fri 16 Nov 12
icsoutofpolicing.co.
uk/my-election-pledg
es/my-manifesto-how-
do-we-pay-for-this/ FAO Timafcb. This candidate listed coatings and many other things besides on his website. He seems to have made a real effort to provide information. I do not know him, never met him. So no vested interest.
boscombewizard
says...
12:56pm Fri 16 Nov 12
icsoutofpolicing.co.
uk/my-election-pledg
es/my-manifesto-how-
do-we-pay-for-this/ FAO Timafcb. This candidate listed costings and many other things besides on his website. He seems to have made a real effort to provide information. I do not know him, never met him. So no vested interest.
boscombewizard
says...
12:56pm Fri 16 Nov 12
icsoutofpolicing.co.
uk/my-election-pledg
es/my-manifesto-how-
do-we-pay-for-this/ FAO Timafcb. This candidate listed costings and many other things besides on his website. He seems to have made a real effort to provide information. I do not know him, never met him. So no vested interest.
boscombewizard
says...
12:57pm Fri 16 Nov 12
icsoutofpolicing.co.
uk/my-election-pledg
es/my-manifesto-how-
do-we-pay-for-this/ FAO Timafcb. This candidate listed costings and many other things besides on his website. He seems to have made a real effort to provide information. I do not know him, never met him. So no vested interest.
boscombewizard
says...
12:57pm Fri 16 Nov 12
icsoutofpolicing.co.
uk/my-election-pledg
es/my-manifesto-how-
do-we-pay-for-this/ FAO Timafcb. This candidate listed costings and many other things besides on his website. He seems to have made a real effort to provide information. I do not know him, never met him. So no vested interest.
boscombewizard
says...
1:07pm Fri 16 Nov 12
allornothing
says...
1:07pm Fri 16 Nov 12
contric
says...
1:07pm Fri 16 Nov 12
roboman1984
says...
1:11pm Fri 16 Nov 12
I think this whole enterprise has been a colossal waste of money. When one considers the cost for employing polling clerks, polling officers not to mention the cost of vote count staff, voting literature and venue hire – all this for a national voting turnout of 16% (due in no small part to the lack of information available) it feels like a wasted exercise.
Each police commissioner will be paid between £60,000 and £100, 000 and each one will tell us what we want to hear i.e. “Making crime fighting the priority”, “more police on the streets”. The police know their own job but they suffer from a lack of funding.
Instead of a police commissioner why not select a non paid body of public and community representatives who the public could go to. The money saved could have been put into the police force in order to improve man power and facilities. The public would have had a link with the police force and we could’ve kept politics out of policing.
rayc
says...
1:23pm Fri 16 Nov 12
roboman1984 wrote:Politics is already in policing. The ACPO is a politically motivated organisation and Chief Constables are looking at getting an award such as a knighthood or MBE. The Police Federation also has political motives.
Re: The Police Commissioners
I think this whole enterprise has been a colossal waste of money. When one considers the cost for employing polling clerks, polling officers not to mention the cost of vote count staff, voting literature and venue hire – all this for a national voting turnout of 16% (due in no small part to the lack of information available) it feels like a wasted exercise.
Each police commissioner will be paid between £60,000 and £100, 000 and each one will tell us what we want to hear i.e. “Making crime fighting the priority”, “more police on the streets”. The police know their own job but they suffer from a lack of funding.
Instead of a police commissioner why not select a non paid body of public and community representatives who the public could go to. The money saved could have been put into the police force in order to improve man power and facilities. The public would have had a link with the police force and we could’ve kept politics out of policing.
I can't say that I think the outgoing Dorset Police Authority has done a fantastic job in giving Dorset Council Tax payers a good return for their money.
roboman1984
says...
1:37pm Fri 16 Nov 12
rayc wrote:Sorry I shoulve said "on this occasion".
roboman1984 wrote:Politics is already in policing. The ACPO is a politically motivated organisation and Chief Constables are looking at getting an award such as a knighthood or MBE. The Police Federation also has political motives.
Re: The Police Commissioners
I think this whole enterprise has been a colossal waste of money. When one considers the cost for employing polling clerks, polling officers not to mention the cost of vote count staff, voting literature and venue hire – all this for a national voting turnout of 16% (due in no small part to the lack of information available) it feels like a wasted exercise.
Each police commissioner will be paid between £60,000 and £100, 000 and each one will tell us what we want to hear i.e. “Making crime fighting the priority”, “more police on the streets”. The police know their own job but they suffer from a lack of funding.
Instead of a police commissioner why not select a non paid body of public and community representatives who the public could go to. The money saved could have been put into the police force in order to improve man power and facilities. The public would have had a link with the police force and we could’ve kept politics out of policing.
I can't say that I think the outgoing Dorset Police Authority has done a fantastic job in giving Dorset Council Tax payers a good return for their money.
super_soup
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2:19pm Fri 16 Nov 12
London-centric politics means the London-centric national media didn't really give two-hoots about this whole exercise.
The Liberal
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2:21pm Fri 16 Nov 12
Well done Martyn Underhill, keeping politics out of policing.
George Bowling
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2:34pm Fri 16 Nov 12
I hope we see more independents standing in future council and general elections. This result shows people want an alternative to the offerings of the traditional parties.
pete woodley
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2:35pm Fri 16 Nov 12
Old Colonial
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2:37pm Fri 16 Nov 12
John T
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2:48pm Fri 16 Nov 12
Omnipotence triumphs over omnishambles!
John T
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2:54pm Fri 16 Nov 12
pete woodley wrote:pete woodley is being as magnanimous in defeat as ever; mind you, he has had plenty of practice.
I wish i could say it was a fair fight,but in my opinion it WAS NOT,the mudslinging against Nick King was disgraceful and Underhill should be ashamed of himself.All pals together now at Headquarters.Police rule.
Nevertheless, thank you, pete, for the unintended support your comments on this site have given to Martyn.
Bob49
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2:59pm Fri 16 Nov 12
simplythebest
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3:17pm Fri 16 Nov 12
Keep politicians out of policing. Absolutely right. The poor turnout should provoke quesitons about Teresa May's position as well.
isthisit
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3:20pm Fri 16 Nov 12
TimAFCB wrote:You admit you voted for these clowns we have now in government ,shame on you.
I feel angry that I could not use my vote. I would normally vote Conservative during a General Election but I have been known to vote Liberal for Local Elections. Rather than just voting for the party I would usually vote for (which I feel a lot of people who cast votes have done) or taken the line to keep politics out of Policing and voted Independant (possibly funded by a property landlord with a dubious reputation), I am very afraid the wrong person for the job will be elected because of the lack of information available.
Gordon Cann
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3:27pm Fri 16 Nov 12
John T
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3:34pm Fri 16 Nov 12
Why am I not surprised by this opportunistic comment from Burns, when, against all the odds and against all the obstacles put in his way, one of his constituents has just become Dorset's Independent Police Commissioner?
pete woodley
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3:39pm Fri 16 Nov 12
Glashen
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4:09pm Fri 16 Nov 12
pete woodley wrote:From where I stood it did not appear to be Martyn Underhill who started the dubious tactics, though I agree he regrettably took part in them. But somebody did once say "If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen" . Good Advice for Nick King.
I wish i could say it was a fair fight,but in my opinion it WAS NOT,the mudslinging against Nick King was disgraceful and Underhill should be ashamed of himself.All pals together now at Headquarters.Police rule.
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I think the truth is for those who voted, they saw in Martyn Underhill someone who was not in the pocket of one party and at least seems to understand the challenges that Dorset Police face.
davecook
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4:43pm Fri 16 Nov 12
The Seasider
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4:45pm Fri 16 Nov 12
The Seasider wrote:I knew I should have had a quid on it at the bookies!
If I was a betting man, my betting slip (for Dorset) would be:
Winner: Independent candidate
2nd: Tory
3rd: Labour
4th: Lib Dem
Turnout: 14%
I dont expect it will take very long to find out how wrong I am!
I wonder if this win will inspire more Independents of good quality to fight the general election? There has never been a better time, think about it:
1. The Lib-Dems have been virtually wiped off the British political map (mainly due to the colossal U-turn over education fee's).
2. The Torys cut top-rate income tax for the rich, increased aid abroad but slashed all UK public spending on essential services whilst also failing to get a grip on welfare budgets or collect tax from huge corporations... a lot of people not too happy about that.
3. Labour. Is Milliband up to the job? Can we risk another £1 trillion of debt added to what Blair/ Brown managed to achieve?
All of that leaves huge scope for Independents to make their mark!
EGHH
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4:45pm Fri 16 Nov 12
stonkin
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4:51pm Fri 16 Nov 12
PS: I've heard a rumour that our new PCC got funding from a certain businessman called Mr Wells. Anybody confirm that?
EGHH
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4:54pm Fri 16 Nov 12
As one officer put it, " Would you allow an elected lay person to tell your doctor how to do his job?" But we have done just that. We will live to regret this stupid idea.
This is the ConDems playing politics with the policing.
And I have sneaking suspicion that is how the Tories plan to privatise our police forces.
pete woodley
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4:58pm Fri 16 Nov 12
tely being a conservative he took the brunt of the anti political views.Nothing wrong with keeping politics out,but as Glashen has said Underhill took part in some nasty campaigning.He is not a true independent.
s-pb2
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5:06pm Fri 16 Nov 12
I did go to vote, although i spoilt my paper as i thought all 4 candidates were rubbish.
It was obvious that the parties didnt actually want to win this. None of them made any effort to engage with the electorate. None of them called in favours from supporters regards printing cheap flyers etc. None of them mobilised there supporters in getting out there and stuffing a sheet of paper backing their candidate, through peoples letterboxes. They just wernt interested, and neither were we. Monumental waste of money
s-pb2
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5:11pm Fri 16 Nov 12
Bob49 wrote:No it wouldnt. Would have been better spent on having more police.
The money cpuld be better spent employing somebody to investigate the running of Bournemouth council.
Square Old Codger
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5:14pm Fri 16 Nov 12
Nigel Blumenthal wrote:There's an element of truth in his statement, I didn't see any benefit at all in the whole concept and certainly don't want to see political involvement in the Police. As it is we are replacing a man with an outstanding record for an unknown quantity! They of course daren't ask the electorate whether we wanted this balmy American idea! In some area's the vote was below 6% and in the Manchester bye Election the lowest vote ever recorded in a Parliamentary Election, maybe , just maybe the people are shewing their contempt and distaste for Politicians.
Quote: Andy Canning, Lib Dem candidate, said: "I think there's an overwhelming rejection of the concept of Pccs - the low turnout and high number of spoilt ballot papers and the fact that the non party candidate is going to win are signs that people didn't want this in the first place." . Unmitigated rubbish, Andy. The low turnout and the high number of spoiled papers reflects a lack of publicity and preparedness on the part of the government, who conveniently forgot to explain this to anyone or to find funds to run it properly, and the high number of votes for the non-party candidate just reflects the total lack of trust that people have in any party politicians. . As usual, the Lib Dems are talking out of their backsides.
arthur1948
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5:25pm Fri 16 Nov 12
no wonder a low vote
muscliffman
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5:33pm Fri 16 Nov 12
PCC, brilliant idea wasn't it!
The Renegade Master
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5:41pm Fri 16 Nov 12
Veryhappyincomer
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6:44pm Fri 16 Nov 12
davecook wrote:I didn't realise that it was STV either. I only voted for one candidate and left the second column blank. Perhaps the instructions should have been clearer, but my single vote would have counted. It is like a council election where you might have two or three votes - you don't have to use them all.
Now the voting is over, I do have a comment or two to make. Firstly, I was given wrong information at the poll booth. I wanted to vote for a particular person, but was surprised to see a choice for a second vote. I was told that if it was a tie, the second choice would be counted. So my second choice was Martyn. Seeing as nobody who votes Labour would ever vote Conservative as second choice, but might vote independant, and anybody voting Conservative would never vote Labour, but may well vote independant as a second choice, it is clear that by the time you add in the people who made a political point by voting for Martyn as a way of protesting against the parties, Martyn was almost guaranteed the post. Secondly, never again should we be put into the position of having an alternative vote. This is a crackpot scheme dreamed up by LibDems, and obviously foisted upon us here and now to show what rubbish it is. Fortunately, the winner of the first round also won the second, otherwise it would have been most unfair. Particularly for any, like myself, who gave a competitor candidate a vote against my wishes due to poor instruction within the polling station.
Veryhappyincomer
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6:48pm Fri 16 Nov 12
stonkin wrote:I believe that he was forced to confirm it himself. He also supports a charity that brings addicts to "rehab" centres on the south coast.
I'm not surprised an independent won here. They'll get the "All the political parties are rubbish" vote. Then when it goes to 2nd choices, Tories will either not vote or vote independent, Libs will vote Labour or Independent, Labs will vote Lib Dem or independent. For a Tory to win they'll pretty much have to win in the first round.
PS: I've heard a rumour that our new PCC got funding from a certain businessman called Mr Wells. Anybody confirm that?
I suspect that more people will vote in the next election in 4 years time, just to get rid of him.
Veryhappyincomer
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6:58pm Fri 16 Nov 12
EGHH wrote:Other parts of the country already have directly elected PCC's, only they are know as Mayors. There was no election in London because Boris Johnson is already the PCC.
You should read the tweets from 100s of serving police officers who all think it's the biggest disaster since the the police were founded. All say the money could have been spent on increasing the numbers of coppers on the beat instead of cutting them.
As one officer put it, " Would you allow an elected lay person to tell your doctor how to do his job?" But we have done just that. We will live to regret this stupid idea.
This is the ConDems playing politics with the policing.
And I have sneaking suspicion that is how the Tories plan to privatise our police forces.
Personally I think that if we can get the right person to do the job it doesn't matter about their background. I do wish that we could have a Ray Mallon type of candidate though. He is Mayor of Middlesbrough and a former policeman known as "RoboCop", but was deeply unpopular among serving police officers. In his first year in office he managed to reduce crime by 20%.
Dj Kaz
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7:14pm Fri 16 Nov 12
tracy m
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8:00pm Fri 16 Nov 12
Anything to keep Cleggie and crew on board!
No expense spared!
tracy m
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8:00pm Fri 16 Nov 12
Anything to keep Cleggie and crew on board!
No expense spared!
West moors 1
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8:38pm Fri 16 Nov 12
s-pb2
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10:50pm Fri 16 Nov 12
The Renegade Master wrote:People who break the law on the road are real criminals. They have the same arrogance and disregard for the law as other criminals and should be treated in the same way
I couldn't care less who the new Commissioner is it won't make any difference, but if the new man really wants to make an impression he could do that by closing down the parasites at Dorset Road Safe and using the money saved to fight real criminals instead.
Clunge
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11:05pm Fri 16 Nov 12
derek j
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12:40am Sat 17 Nov 12
We the people voted against this, and heavily rejected PR
now we are being cunningly forced into the rejected system!!
Azphreal
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9:06am Sat 17 Nov 12
Glashen
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11:16am Sat 17 Nov 12
derek j wrote:We voted against a change to the voting system for UK parliamentary elections, alternative voting methods are already used in many other elections such as the European Parliament.
WHY DID WE HAVE THIS 2 VOTE SYSTEM
We the people voted against this, and heavily rejected PR
now we are being cunningly forced into the rejected system!!
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The method used is known as "Supplementary Vote" and is also used for Mayoral elections.The lack of information extended to most people not knowing that this would not be simple "straight past the post".
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On balance I think the Police & Crime Commissioners might not be a bad thing but the selling of it to the public and the lack of information was dire.
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If this Government is not to be remembered by the epithet "Omnishambles" it has to get its act together now and no more of these demonstrations of how not to do it.
Glashen
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1:03pm Sat 17 Nov 12
Glashen wrote:I've just looked through the results, in every case that the second vote made a difference between an independent and a party sponsored candidate it went to the independent overturning the first choice votes.
derek j wrote:We voted against a change to the voting system for UK parliamentary elections, alternative voting methods are already used in many other elections such as the European Parliament.
WHY DID WE HAVE THIS 2 VOTE SYSTEM
We the people voted against this, and heavily rejected PR
now we are being cunningly forced into the rejected system!!
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The method used is known as "Supplementary Vote" and is also used for Mayoral elections.The lack of information extended to most people not knowing that this would not be simple "straight past the post".
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On balance I think the Police & Crime Commissioners might not be a bad thing but the selling of it to the public and the lack of information was dire.
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If this Government is not to be remembered by the epithet "Omnishambles" it has to get its act together now and no more of these demonstrations of how not to do it.
pete woodley
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6:20pm Sat 17 Nov 12
portia6
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9:19pm Thu 22 Nov 12
the crystal ball!
The Liberal says...
9:32am Fri 16 Nov 12