Cycling has become a "dangerous game" say campaigners (From Bournemouth Echo)

Inspector Matt Butler of the Dorset Police traffic department said: “Dorset Police investigate all allegations of road traffic offences in accordance with the CPS Code for Crown Prosecutors. The success of any investigation relies on the evidence obtained.
What rubbish,i was knocked off my bike in castle lane 2 weeks ago,thee driver pulled out from a side road and then tried to blame me,not one other motorist cared,and when i phoned the police,they said it was not there problem,and to take the details of the driver,i got his details,but he has not paid up for the damage to my bike,i phoned the police again,and thay said again,it was not there problem,so maybe next time i should just break the drivers car window,then at least they would be out of pocket too like me.

An instant fix to make cycling safer would be to make all pavements shared routes and remove all 'No cycling' signs from precincts, the cliff tops, the chines and allow 24/7 year round cycling on the prom.

jobsworthwatch wrote:
An instant fix to make cycling safer would be to make all pavements shared routes and remove all 'No cycling' signs from precincts, the cliff tops, the chines and allow 24/7 year round cycling on the prom.

I agree in part with you but letting cyclists use all footpaths and precincts etc would mean more pedestrians (and cyclists) getting hurt. I fail to understand why a lot (not all) refuse to use cycle paths that are already provided. Yesterday I saw 2 cyclists riding on the road part of the Dorset Way by Tower Park when just 2 feet away there was an unused cycle path. Surely if cyclists thought drivers are so bad (not denying some are) then then should do themselves a favour and use the cycle paths. I always use provided cycle paths as there are a lot of drivers who don't car about cyclists.
Drivers need to be more aware of cyclists as they are more vulnarable (the cyclists not the drivers) but the cyclists also need to help themselves by making themselves less vulnarable.

So us horrible car drivers should stop cyclists when they are breaking the law and contact the Police! There are good cyclists and bad cyclists as there are good car drivers and bad car drivers!

yes, i must admit that cycling has become an outdated mode of transport, ideal for recreational jaunts through the forest and ambling along well kept paths, a different story when you are mixing it with with motor vehicles

I don't understand why cyclists risk their lives on the roads during rush hour when the council in some areas has built cycle lanes on the pavement? Example would be Gravel Hill cycle lane.

mookie44 wrote:
I don't understand why cyclists risk their lives on the roads during rush hour when the council in some areas has built cycle lanes on the pavement? Example would be Gravel Hill cycle lane.

Says a lot about our driving standards when legally cycling along a straight road is classed as taking a risk with your life.

The problem with many cycle lanes is that they are built for the benefit of the motorist and not the convenience of the cyclist. I'd happily lend someone a bike and take them on an obstacle ridden dis-jointed tour of these lanes to enlighten exactly why so many of them are rejected and that's an issue that frustrates both cyclists and motorists.

Autumn is also a particularly bad time for debris in 'gutter' cycle lanes, which are not often cleaned and can be extremely dangerous.

A lot is said about being able to anticipate and understand how someone might behave on the road and why. There'll always be those who bring a bad name to others and it does amaze me how cyclists get an inversely proportionate level of anger compared to the damage they cause, but I wonder if we can use these forums to educate each other about why people do things rather than turn comments into a string of insults.

hammer wrote:
So us horrible car drivers should stop cyclists when they are breaking the law and contact the Police! There are good cyclists and bad cyclists as there are good car drivers and bad car drivers!

All cyclist are at serious risk from all cars, proved by the recent spate of accidents regardless of blame, cyclists present little or no risk to car drivers.

mookie44 wrote:
I don't understand why cyclists risk their lives on the roads during rush hour when the council in some areas has built cycle lanes on the pavement? Example would be Gravel Hill cycle lane.

Mostly because a lot of motorists fail to understand cycle lanes, especially those on the side of the roads. Barrack Road and Castle Lane are execellent examples of taking your life in your hands as people veer in and out of the cycle lane to ensure they remain 1 foot behind the car in front at 3mph at all costs

That last point goes for everyone and I'm firmly in the 'for' camp when it comes to some kind of cycle training at school. The more experienced a cyclist I've become, there are things I now do differently in order to help those around me and for myself, be safer.

Clocks go back at the weekend, stand by for the spike in road accidents and no doubt it will be cyclists that fare the worst.

Perhaps it would be a good idea if ALL cyclists had insurance and paid towards cycle lane with a road tax when riding on the road. That way if they were involved in a dispute over an accident then their insurance company could fight for them. No cyclists don't want to pay anything to ride on roads paid for by car driver tax and other taxes from car drivers.

aerolover wrote:
Perhaps it would be a good idea if ALL cyclists had insurance and paid towards cycle lane with a road tax when riding on the road. That way if they were involved in a dispute over an accident then their insurance company could fight for them. No cyclists don't want to pay anything to ride on roads paid for by car driver tax and other taxes from car drivers.

Roads are paid for out of general taxation so anyone who has a job, buys anything, pays council tax etc is funding the roads. VED is a tax on emissions, and plenty of vehicles other than cyclists are exempt.

It also means that cyclists contribute millions of pounds in taxes for the upkeep of a motorway network we never use.

aerolover wrote:
Perhaps it would be a good idea if ALL cyclists had insurance and paid towards cycle lane with a road tax when riding on the road. That way if they were involved in a dispute over an accident then their insurance company could fight for them. No cyclists don't want to pay anything to ride on roads paid for by car driver tax and other taxes from car drivers.

Im a cyclist and a car driver...I cycle to work so i all ready pay my bit...But ok.....I shall pay my road tax which will be £0 as i produce no Co2. I shall now insure my bike 3rd party only which if i could would be about £20 pounds...Ok now im as legal as a car driver...that means cos ive paid my bit i shall now take up the whole lane and not be pushed into the gutter. Thats fair isnt it????

aerolover wrote:
Perhaps it would be a good idea if ALL cyclists had insurance and paid towards cycle lane with a road tax when riding on the road. That way if they were involved in a dispute over an accident then their insurance company could fight for them. No cyclists don't want to pay anything to ride on roads paid for by car driver tax and other taxes from car drivers.

Car tax does not pay for the roads, it goes directly to the Exchequer, Winston Churchill saw to that!
Nice to see you have your finger on the political pulse!
.
All members of the Cyclists' Touring Club have third party insurance.

JJMcClure wrote:

jobsworthwatch wrote:
An instant fix to make cycling safer would be to make all pavements shared routes and remove all 'No cycling' signs from precincts, the cliff tops, the chines and allow 24/7 year round cycling on the prom.

I agree in part with you but letting cyclists use all footpaths and precincts etc would mean more pedestrians (and cyclists) getting hurt. I fail to understand why a lot (not all) refuse to use cycle paths that are already provided. Yesterday I saw 2 cyclists riding on the road part of the Dorset Way by Tower Park when just 2 feet away there was an unused cycle path. Surely if cyclists thought drivers are so bad (not denying some are) then then should do themselves a favour and use the cycle paths. I always use provided cycle paths as there are a lot of drivers who don't car about cyclists.
Drivers need to be more aware of cyclists as they are more vulnarable (the cyclists not the drivers) but the cyclists also need to help themselves by making themselves less vulnarable.

Any cyclist that fails to use cycle paths where provided and ends up under the wheels of a vehicle only has themselves to blame.It should also be made law for cyclist to obtain third party insurance to cover injury to pedestrians if they are permitted use the pavement .
It seems that as long as the high and mighty cyclists think that they are a law unto themselves how can they expect any respect from other motorists.

burgerboy wrote:

JJMcClure wrote:

jobsworthwatch wrote:
An instant fix to make cycling safer would be to make all pavements shared routes and remove all 'No cycling' signs from precincts, the cliff tops, the chines and allow 24/7 year round cycling on the prom.

I agree in part with you but letting cyclists use all footpaths and precincts etc would mean more pedestrians (and cyclists) getting hurt. I fail to understand why a lot (not all) refuse to use cycle paths that are already provided. Yesterday I saw 2 cyclists riding on the road part of the Dorset Way by Tower Park when just 2 feet away there was an unused cycle path. Surely if cyclists thought drivers are so bad (not denying some are) then then should do themselves a favour and use the cycle paths. I always use provided cycle paths as there are a lot of drivers who don't car about cyclists.
Drivers need to be more aware of cyclists as they are more vulnarable (the cyclists not the drivers) but the cyclists also need to help themselves by making themselves less vulnarable.

Any cyclist that fails to use cycle paths where provided and ends up under the wheels of a vehicle only has themselves to blame.It should also be made law for cyclist to obtain third party insurance to cover injury to pedestrians if they are permitted use the pavement .
It seems that as long as the high and mighty cyclists think that they are a law unto themselves how can they expect any respect from other motorists.

Hundreds of motorists are caught breaking the law every day. Hundreds of people die every year as a result of bad driving. How much respect should cyclists give motorists?

The answer to both our questions is plenty. Showing someone a lack of respect based on what other people have done is a sign of bad driving and cycling and it's that kind of attitude that kills people.

Nice to know the cycling groups treat it all as a 'Game'.

Cyclists don't seem to use cycle lanes when they're there anyway. There's a cycle lane along the Dorset way all the way from Wallisdown roundabout to Fleets lane, yet I see many cyclists on the dual carriageway. Same goes for most other cycle lanes across the conurbation.

If I jump a red light in a car, I get 3 points and £60, whyt doesn't the same apply to cyclists?

Derf wrote:
Nice to know the cycling groups treat it all as a 'Game'.

Cyclists don't seem to use cycle lanes when they're there anyway. There's a cycle lane along the Dorset way all the way from Wallisdown roundabout to Fleets lane, yet I see many cyclists on the dual carriageway. Same goes for most other cycle lanes across the conurbation.

If I jump a red light in a car, I get 3 points and £60, whyt doesn't the same apply to cyclists?

Well it should do. And for cyclist who jump the lights and on their phone's at the same time. I use to ride my bike, but am ashamed on how cyclists are now. It's like they own the road and no else does.

you guys all seem to assume that all cyclist break the law.....tut tut.

This should not be a discussion about drivers vs cyclists but the facts remain clear - cyclists ARE being put at risk in areas and that really should not be happening.

None of the cyclists mentioned in the article have broken any laws.They were all riding in a legal manner when they were brought down. And let us not forget that hit and run is still an abhorrent thing to do to anyone.

I urge ALL cyclists to do the following:

- Join British Cycling and/or CTC (both not only offer discounts in shops but also training and campaign on your behalf for road safety - its only about £30 a year).

- Consider a helmet camera. You dont have to upload to youtube like some of us, but you will have a chance of evidence should something happen.

Many of us on the web will help you with advice (cycling forums, twitter, the blogs)

- Actively document issues that face yourselves and take those to your councillours, MPs, Police liason and write to Government demanding change.

- And yes, you do have to follow the law, whether in car, on bike or horse or on foot. That goes without saying. Like I said above there are many of us willing to give out advice.

I've only recently started driving again (previously took public transport) and what's surprised me is the amount of cyclists I see now who don't have lights on their bikes. It's darker in the mornings and gets darker earlier in the evenings - if you want road users to see you please don't wear black and no lights!

I nearly hit a man the other day at 6am (still dark out and was very misty) who was riding in all black with no lights on. He swore at me and shook his fist and I felt genuinely bad I nearly hit him but perhaps if he'd had a light on or a reflective jacket I would have noticed him sooner!

rozmister wrote:
I've only recently started driving again (previously took public transport) and what's surprised me is the amount of cyclists I see now who don't have lights on their bikes. It's darker in the mornings and gets darker earlier in the evenings - if you want road users to see you please don't wear black and no lights!

I nearly hit a man the other day at 6am (still dark out and was very misty) who was riding in all black with no lights on. He swore at me and shook his fist and I felt genuinely bad I nearly hit him but perhaps if he'd had a light on or a reflective jacket I would have noticed him sooner!

Totally agree Rosmister.
Many cyclists think they are above the law.
I bet if a car driver was to venture out without lights after dark it would not be long before they were pulled up by the police and reprimanded or charged,but the cyclist can ride without lights,ride on the pavement and charge through the pedestrian precinct which are all as far as i know against the law, and this is possibly one of the reasons that there is ongoing bad feeling toward many cyclist by car drivers.
.

burgerboy wrote:

rozmister wrote:
I've only recently started driving again (previously took public transport) and what's surprised me is the amount of cyclists I see now who don't have lights on their bikes. It's darker in the mornings and gets darker earlier in the evenings - if you want road users to see you please don't wear black and no lights!

I nearly hit a man the other day at 6am (still dark out and was very misty) who was riding in all black with no lights on. He swore at me and shook his fist and I felt genuinely bad I nearly hit him but perhaps if he'd had a light on or a reflective jacket I would have noticed him sooner!

Totally agree Rosmister.
Many cyclists think they are above the law.
I bet if a car driver was to venture out without lights after dark it would not be long before they were pulled up by the police and reprimanded or charged,but the cyclist can ride without lights,ride on the pavement and charge through the pedestrian precinct which are all as far as i know against the law, and this is possibly one of the reasons that there is ongoing bad feeling toward many cyclist by car drivers.
.

I would disagree that it is "many", none of the studies, or accident data has ever backed up that assertion,

What you have to remember is what I said above - those people affected in the article were not breaking the law.

After all - should you as a driver be held to account for drivers like this? -
http://www.dailymail
.co.uk/news/article-
2220276/Cardiff-hit-
run-Toddler-catapult
ed-air-caught-father
-driver-mows-FOURTEE
N-people.html

This is effectively what our culture is doing - guilt by association. This needs to stop.

For years I blamed cyclists for the problems until I started cycling again at which point I soon realised that the roads around here are so bad that cyclists need to cycle further out in the road as road margins are terrible.

Cycle lanes are woefully inadequate, stopping at random places and taking you a considerable way off course a lot of the time. There is one on Ringwood Road, Parkstone where one line goes around a tree and the other doesn't making the "cycle lane" too narrow for a cycle.

Also noticed an increasing number of drivers who seem unable to pass a cyclist and prefer to slow down to their speed and drive directly behind them - very odd behaviour!!

Not surprising really, the standard and attitude of drivers in around Poole and Bournemouth is atrocious. I say that as driver. As can be seen by some of the comments on here.
I spent a lot of time driving and cycling in Germany and the law protects cyclists and pedestrians. As a driver I slow down for other slower road users and wait until it is safe to do so and give them plenty of room, whatever mode of transport they use. What hassle is it to me, a move of the foot and a small turn on a steering wheel. Yet for some motorists they seem to full of their own self importance to be able to do this, they are not out in the weather, expending energy, with little protection around them. As as a driver their safety from my vehicle is my responsibility, not the cyclists.
Too many people these days are disrespectful to others and downright bone idle and lazy and think that the rules don't apply to them. It is time there was a clampdown NO EXCUSES!

I have to cycle to work because public transport where I live is rubbish and buses do not run early enough. Luckily I don't have to do this during rush hour and the roads are empty at 5AM.
On the way home is a different story though, the biggest problem are car drivers pulling out who just don't look.

On the other hand I see when it's still dark, cyclists without lights riding on the road.

Cycling is a good and cheap way to get around, but unfortunately a few drivers and cyclists make it dangerous.

aerolover wrote:
Perhaps it would be a good idea if ALL cyclists had insurance and paid towards cycle lane with a road tax when riding on the road. That way if they were involved in a dispute over an accident then their insurance company could fight for them. No cyclists don't want to pay anything to ride on roads paid for by car driver tax and other taxes from car drivers.

Rubbish!

I have a car, but choose to commute by bike. Many cyclists are the same. But as already stated - my car tax doesn't go towards the maintenance of roads. (they aren't maintained as far as I can see!)

I am a member of British Cycling, thus have 3rd party insurance.

I cannot understand the anger directed at cyclists. The road doesn't belong to car drivers, it is just as much my right to cycle down it.

- I cycle to keep fit, so hopefully won't need to use already strained NHS resources.

- I am relatively carbon neutral, not chucking out emissions whilst sitting in traffic

- I am not another car in the queue on your way to work

I would urge people banging on about how cyclists are breaking the law or getting in your way etc etc get out of your comfy cars and try riding a bike to work for a day. Then you'll realise how scary it is when you drive past giving us just an inch, or pull out on us at junctions.

Also..

I believe helmet wear for under 16s should be compulsory.

rolly80 wrote:

aerolover wrote: Perhaps it would be a good idea if ALL cyclists had insurance and paid towards cycle lane with a road tax when riding on the road. That way if they were involved in a dispute over an accident then their insurance company could fight for them. No cyclists don't want to pay anything to ride on roads paid for by car driver tax and other taxes from car drivers.

Rubbish! I have a car, but choose to commute by bike. Many cyclists are the same. But as already stated - my car tax doesn't go towards the maintenance of roads. (they aren't maintained as far as I can see!) I am a member of British Cycling, thus have 3rd party insurance. I cannot understand the anger directed at cyclists. The road doesn't belong to car drivers, it is just as much my right to cycle down it. - I cycle to keep fit, so hopefully won't need to use already strained NHS resources. - I am relatively carbon neutral, not chucking out emissions whilst sitting in traffic - I am not another car in the queue on your way to work I would urge people banging on about how cyclists are breaking the law or getting in your way etc etc get out of your comfy cars and try riding a bike to work for a day. Then you'll realise how scary it is when you drive past giving us just an inch, or pull out on us at junctions.

why do you need third party insurance if you as a cyclist never do anything wrong? What an eco warrior you are bless!

Imaximus wrote:
you guys all seem to assume that all cyclist break the law.....tut tut.

There are good drivers, and there are bad drivers.

There are good cyclists and there are bad cyclists.

Any vehicle should be used on the road in a manner considerate to all other road users, regardless of size or classification. Sadly the roads are over-run with selfish users, hence they jump lights, pull out of junctions into the path of oncoming vehicles, tailgate, cut up, don't give way, reverse out of driveways, etc and never wave to say thank you!

However as the most vulnerable users of the roads cyclists really should take responsibility to ensure their behaviour does not put them further at risk.

hammer wrote:

rolly80 wrote:

aerolover wrote: Perhaps it would be a good idea if ALL cyclists had insurance and paid towards cycle lane with a road tax when riding on the road. That way if they were involved in a dispute over an accident then their insurance company could fight for them. No cyclists don't want to pay anything to ride on roads paid for by car driver tax and other taxes from car drivers.

Rubbish! I have a car, but choose to commute by bike. Many cyclists are the same. But as already stated - my car tax doesn't go towards the maintenance of roads. (they aren't maintained as far as I can see!) I am a member of British Cycling, thus have 3rd party insurance. I cannot understand the anger directed at cyclists. The road doesn't belong to car drivers, it is just as much my right to cycle down it. - I cycle to keep fit, so hopefully won't need to use already strained NHS resources. - I am relatively carbon neutral, not chucking out emissions whilst sitting in traffic - I am not another car in the queue on your way to work I would urge people banging on about how cyclists are breaking the law or getting in your way etc etc get out of your comfy cars and try riding a bike to work for a day. Then you'll realise how scary it is when you drive past giving us just an inch, or pull out on us at junctions.

why do you need third party insurance if you as a cyclist never do anything wrong? What an eco warrior you are bless!

Serious?

rolly80 wrote:

hammer wrote:

rolly80 wrote:

aerolover wrote: Perhaps it would be a good idea if ALL cyclists had insurance and paid towards cycle lane with a road tax when riding on the road. That way if they were involved in a dispute over an accident then their insurance company could fight for them. No cyclists don't want to pay anything to ride on roads paid for by car driver tax and other taxes from car drivers.

Rubbish! I have a car, but choose to commute by bike. Many cyclists are the same. But as already stated - my car tax doesn't go towards the maintenance of roads. (they aren't maintained as far as I can see!) I am a member of British Cycling, thus have 3rd party insurance. I cannot understand the anger directed at cyclists. The road doesn't belong to car drivers, it is just as much my right to cycle down it. - I cycle to keep fit, so hopefully won't need to use already strained NHS resources. - I am relatively carbon neutral, not chucking out emissions whilst sitting in traffic - I am not another car in the queue on your way to work I would urge people banging on about how cyclists are breaking the law or getting in your way etc etc get out of your comfy cars and try riding a bike to work for a day. Then you'll realise how scary it is when you drive past giving us just an inch, or pull out on us at junctions.

why do you need third party insurance if you as a cyclist never do anything wrong? What an eco warrior you are bless!

Serious?

Hammer trolling. She has no real interest in debate, and ergo even listening.

Flamin puter.. missed out an "is"

Incidentally this is worthy reading for any of the angry people on here bemoaning cyclists - the question is - do you have the balls to read it and take it to heart?

http://www.bbc.co.uk
/news/business-19746
515

Any road over 40 limit and the speed difference is just too much and things become particularly dangerous for cyclists.

I see on my drive home from Poole even when its raining and dark, a cyclist riding along the a35 national speed limit road between bakers arms and Bere Regis - can only assume this is natural selection at work...

There may be less animosity toward cyclists if they followed the same rules as motorists, such as stopping at red lights, displaying a clear identification, using a constant white light at the front and constant red light at the back or flashing amber light to indicate a slow moving vehicle (not brilliant white strobe lights), signalling and acting on other motorists' signals; the other day I passed a cyclist at the top of my road, indicated to her that I was about to turn left, slowed down, checked for oncoming traffic, swung round to enter my driveway, and she tried to undertake me at speed. Had I not stopped in the middle of the road she would have been straight over my bonnet. Of course she screamed obscenities as she continued free-wheeling uncontrollably down the hill.

Twingo wrote:

Imaximus wrote:
you guys all seem to assume that all cyclist break the law.....tut tut.

There are good drivers, and there are bad drivers.

There are good cyclists and there are bad cyclists.

Any vehicle should be used on the road in a manner considerate to all other road users, regardless of size or classification. Sadly the roads are over-run with selfish users, hence they jump lights, pull out of junctions into the path of oncoming vehicles, tailgate, cut up, don't give way, reverse out of driveways, etc and never wave to say thank you!

However as the most vulnerable users of the roads cyclists really should take responsibility to ensure their behaviour does not put them further at risk.

When you go out on a Friday evening, the pubs and bars of Bournemouth are heaving. People beat each other up. Drunks vomit everywhere.

As the most vulnerable people, women really need to stop wearing short skirts and talking back to men. They need to take responsibility so their behaviour does not put them further at risk.

Bournefre wrote:
There may be less animosity toward cyclists if they followed the same rules as motorists, such as stopping at red lights, displaying a clear identification, using a constant white light at the front and constant red light at the back or flashing amber light to indicate a slow moving vehicle (not brilliant white strobe lights), signalling and acting on other motorists' signals; the other day I passed a cyclist at the top of my road, indicated to her that I was about to turn left, slowed down, checked for oncoming traffic, swung round to enter my driveway, and she tried to undertake me at speed. Had I not stopped in the middle of the road she would have been straight over my bonnet. Of course she screamed obscenities as she continued free-wheeling uncontrollably down the hill.

Highway Code Rule167
DO NOT overtake where you might come into conflict with other road users. For example

...stay behind if you are following a cyclist approaching a roundabout or junction, and you intend to turn left...

Your driveway would count as a junction and you knew you were going to turn into it. Why did you feel the need to overtake the cyclist so close to your destination? You created the situation that the cyclist felt was dangerous and let you know it.

It would be good if motorists obeyed the Highway Code: jumping red lights, exceeding the speed limit, not indicating at roundabouts, having faulty lights, driving with foglights in good visibility, driving without VED, driving without insurance, driving without a license, driving while drunk, not having the common decency to stop after knocking down a cyclist or child pedestrian!

cbrndc wrote:

Bournefre wrote: There may be less animosity toward cyclists if they followed the same rules as motorists, such as stopping at red lights, displaying a clear identification, using a constant white light at the front and constant red light at the back or flashing amber light to indicate a slow moving vehicle (not brilliant white strobe lights), signalling and acting on other motorists' signals; the other day I passed a cyclist at the top of my road, indicated to her that I was about to turn left, slowed down, checked for oncoming traffic, swung round to enter my driveway, and she tried to undertake me at speed. Had I not stopped in the middle of the road she would have been straight over my bonnet. Of course she screamed obscenities as she continued free-wheeling uncontrollably down the hill.

Highway Code Rule167 DO NOT overtake where you might come into conflict with other road users. For example ...stay behind if you are following a cyclist approaching a roundabout or junction, and you intend to turn left... Your driveway would count as a junction and you knew you were going to turn into it. Why did you feel the need to overtake the cyclist so close to your destination? You created the situation that the cyclist felt was dangerous and let you know it. It would be good if motorists obeyed the Highway Code: jumping red lights, exceeding the speed limit, not indicating at roundabouts, having faulty lights, driving with foglights in good visibility, driving without VED, driving without insurance, driving without a license, driving while drunk, not having the common decency to stop after knocking down a cyclist or child pedestrian!

The classic left-hook. The signature move of the cr*p driver.