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‘Fine the parents of children who cause night street crime’
An MP is calling for parents to be fined if their children cause trouble on the streets after dark.
Bournemouth West MP Sir John Butterfill said: "If parents were made to pay for failing to control their children, they might think twice about letting them out late at night. It's all about educating parents and making sure they are doing their job."
Sir John described calls for a national youth curfew to curb knife crime and violent behaviour as "unworkable".
"How would you enforce a curfew? Some 14-year-olds on the streets of Bournemouth at night look more like they are 20," he said.
"Ten to 12-year-olds should be taken home by the police, then it is a matter for the parents to sort out."
A report from a House of Commons committee will say this week that a national curfew on young teenagers would help stem antisocial and violent behaviour.
But New Forest West MP Desmond Swayne said calls for a curfew were "daft".
He added: "I believe in punishing the guilty - not the innocent. Why should we make every young person pay? It's daft.
"We have to look at more severe punishments for those caught carrying knives, school discipline and parenting. Many issues have led to increasing disorder in society.
"I'd like to see more police on the streets and officers using stop-and-search powers more robustly in problem areas. People wouldn't be worried if they had nothing to hide."
Mid Dorset and North Poole MP Annette Brooke said: "We need to work with young people and not demonise them all.
"The majority do wonderful things but unfortunately do not get enough media attention.
"Obviously we have to tackle gang crime but we need sensible measures and to look at why young people feel the need to carry knives."
Bournemouth East MP Tobias Ellwood said: "Each area has to make a judgement about curfews. We have our problems here but I don't think it would be right for Bournemouth to take such a Draconian step.
"One of the biggest challenges for any government is that we have so many broken families with no role models to pass on the values of past generations."
7:00am Tuesday 15th July 2008
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CommentPosted by: Maria, christchurch on 7:39am Tue 15 Jul 08
Lets hope they dont back down on this idea. I have been saying this for ages, parents need to supervise their children more. The only ones who will moan about this are the ones who let their kids roam not caring where they are or what they are doing. It may come across to some as heavy tactics, but just look at how bad our society is becoming. Children need to learn respect for others and this has to start in the home.
Lets hope they dont back down on this idea. I have been saying this for ages, parents need to supervise their children more. The only ones who will moan about this are the ones who let their kids roam not caring where they are or what they are doing. It may come across to some as heavy tactics, but just look at how bad our society is becoming. Children need to learn respect for others and this has to start in the home.
Posted by: PooleChick, Poole on 7:47am Tue 15 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Maria[/bold] wrote:
Lets hope they dont back down on this idea. I have been saying this for ages, parents need to supervise their children more. The only ones who will moan about this are the ones who let their kids roam not caring where they are or what they are doing. It may come across to some as heavy tactics, but just look at how bad our society is becoming. Children need to learn respect for others and this has to start in the home.[/quote] Hear Hear!
Maria wrote:
Lets hope they dont back down on this idea. I have been saying this for ages, parents need to supervise their children more. The only ones who will moan about this are the ones who let their kids roam not caring where they are or what they are doing. It may come across to some as heavy tactics, but just look at how bad our society is becoming. Children need to learn respect for others and this has to start in the home.
Hear Hear!
Posted by: PokesdownMark, Pokesdown on 7:55am Tue 15 Jul 08
Maria, you are assuming that parents of the problem kids do not care what they are doing and do not control them as a result. I think you are failing to consider parents who [italic]cannot[/italic] control their kids and do very much care and worry what they are doing. I think this latter category is much more prevalent.
It seems Sir John has thought rationally about the curfew idea but can't be applying the same degree of rational thought to the idea of fines. The flaws in both schemes are equally visible to me.
Maria, you are assuming that parents of the problem kids do not care what they are doing and do not control them as a result. I think you are failing to consider parents who
cannot control their kids and do very much care and worry what they are doing. I think this latter category is much more prevalent.
It seems Sir John has thought rationally about the curfew idea but can't be applying the same degree of rational thought to the idea of fines. The flaws in both schemes are equally visible to me.
Posted by: Maria, christchurch on 8:08am Tue 15 Jul 08
How can anyone NOT control their kids. For the record I have 4, my eldest is 16. I am not naive, this isn't just a bit of fooling about on corners and yes children will always cause some mischief. This goes far beyond that, if my son was disrespectful, which isn't in his nature at all, My husband and I would be down on him like a ton of bricks. We haven't ruled with a rod of iron, he has had had freedom to make his choices but our guidlines are firm and clear. We respect each other as a family and as a result I have a polite teenager who prefers to spend time with his family playing sport than going out with friends.He volunteers at our local church and helps look after autistic children. I am proud of my son and can say without doubt that we have contributed to this well rounded teenager because we CARE enough to KNOW where he is and set firm boundries.
How can anyone NOT control their kids. For the record I have 4, my eldest is 16. I am not naive, this isn't just a bit of fooling about on corners and yes children will always cause some mischief. This goes far beyond that, if my son was disrespectful, which isn't in his nature at all, My husband and I would be down on him like a ton of bricks. We haven't ruled with a rod of iron, he has had had freedom to make his choices but our guidlines are firm and clear. We respect each other as a family and as a result I have a polite teenager who prefers to spend time with his family playing sport than going out with friends.He volunteers at our local church and helps look after autistic children. I am proud of my son and can say without doubt that we have contributed to this well rounded teenager because we CARE enough to KNOW where he is and set firm boundries.
Posted by: JENNYMAC2008, BOURNEMOUTH on 9:05am Tue 15 Jul 08
The idea is all very well, but from previous experience, would involve everyone standing together to make it work. I experienced terrible trouble with my son a couple of years ago. And in spite of the fact I am a responsible, caring and respectable parent, the fact that I am single, in the eyes of the law and social services, seemed to give my son the excuse to act like a lout, refuse to come home on time, fight in the street, get drunk, and come home and smash up my house. My attemts to punish him with a zero tolerance policy was frowned upon by social services, who told him I was being too controlling!!! They weren't having to visit A&E every weekend, spend money having teeth replaced, being called to yhe police station etc etc etc... In addition to this, I called the police on numerous occasions to tell them he was missing ( at 3am in the morning!) and at 13 yrs old, I consider this missing, they didn't. Neither did they deem it neccessary to remove him from my home in the early hours of the morning when he was rampaging around, punching holes in doors, upturning tables and threatening me. I refuse to accept responsibility for his behaviour just because I am a single mother. The only way I could of physically controlled him (because he wasn't listening to reason!) was to have acquired a tazar or something equivalent. I would of been the one in prison then! I understand that something must be done, and maybe some parents dont care what their kids get up to? But as a parent who went through it, and sat up every weekend waiting for a call to say her son had been seriously hurt or worse, please don't think that one solution fits all. The problems run much deeper than parenting, society has forced our children to grow up quicker, and laws have allowed them to get away with more and more over the years. Human rights protect the offender more than the victim nowadays. Maybe the law needs to get harder instead of giving them excuses to mis-behave. They hear everyone blaming parenting, then wonder why they don't have any respect for their parents, how will they ever when constantly being bombarded with people saying we are not doing our job properly? Luckily my son turned himself around, and is ashamed of his actions now, which were all fuelled by alcohol (sold to them by local offlicences!!) I ejected him from my house at the age of 14. He wasn't letting me be his parent, or repecting the home, so a quick wake up call did the trick. I still worried about him every night, but no more than when he was living in the house. We all have to be responsible for our OWN actions, teach them that first, and stop blaming the parents, that only gives them the excuse they want?
The idea is all very well, but from previous experience, would involve everyone standing together to make it work. I experienced terrible trouble with my son a couple of years ago. And in spite of the fact I am a responsible, caring and respectable parent, the fact that I am single, in the eyes of the law and social services, seemed to give my son the excuse to act like a lout, refuse to come home on time, fight in the street, get drunk, and come home and smash up my house. My attemts to punish him with a zero tolerance policy was frowned upon by social services, who told him I was being too controlling!!! They weren't having to visit A&E every weekend, spend money having teeth replaced, being called to yhe police station etc etc etc... In addition to this, I called the police on numerous occasions to tell them he was missing ( at 3am in the morning!) and at 13 yrs old, I consider this missing, they didn't. Neither did they deem it neccessary to remove him from my home in the early hours of the morning when he was rampaging around, punching holes in doors, upturning tables and threatening me. I refuse to accept responsibility for his behaviour just because I am a single mother. The only way I could of physically controlled him (because he wasn't listening to reason!) was to have acquired a tazar or something equivalent. I would of been the one in prison then! I understand that something must be done, and maybe some parents dont care what their kids get up to? But as a parent who went through it, and sat up every weekend waiting for a call to say her son had been seriously hurt or worse, please don't think that one solution fits all. The problems run much deeper than parenting, society has forced our children to grow up quicker, and laws have allowed them to get away with more and more over the years. Human rights protect the offender more than the victim nowadays. Maybe the law needs to get harder instead of giving them excuses to mis-behave. They hear everyone blaming parenting, then wonder why they don't have any respect for their parents, how will they ever when constantly being bombarded with people saying we are not doing our job properly? Luckily my son turned himself around, and is ashamed of his actions now, which were all fuelled by alcohol (sold to them by local offlicences!!) I ejected him from my house at the age of 14. He wasn't letting me be his parent, or repecting the home, so a quick wake up call did the trick. I still worried about him every night, but no more than when he was living in the house. We all have to be responsible for our OWN actions, teach them that first, and stop blaming the parents, that only gives them the excuse they want?
Posted by: Christopher, Wallisdown & Winton West on 9:13am Tue 15 Jul 08
In theory, it is all sounds good. However, in these columns we have heard in the past from single Mum's who do not stand a chance of controlling there elder sons or daughters. Even to the point of being beaten up themselves. It sounds hard to believe, but it does happen.
Do not get me wrong, I am all for supporting any action that can curtail kids from causing problems and troubles, but before we pass the buck, perhaps Mr's Butterfill and Tobias could also look at ways of helping those who need help in fighting this cause.
In theory, it is all sounds good. However, in these columns we have heard in the past from single Mum's who do not stand a chance of controlling there elder sons or daughters. Even to the point of being beaten up themselves. It sounds hard to believe, but it does happen.
Do not get me wrong, I am all for supporting any action that can curtail kids from causing problems and troubles, but before we pass the buck, perhaps Mr's Butterfill and Tobias could also look at ways of helping those who need help in fighting this cause.
Posted by: HAL101 , Bournemouth on 9:17am Tue 15 Jul 08
[quote]But New Forest West MP Desmond Swayne said calls for a curfew were "daft".
He added: "I believe in punishing the guilty - not the innocent. Why should we make every young person pay? It's daft.
"We have to look at more severe punishments for those caught carrying knives, school discipline and parenting. Many issues have led to increasing disorder in society.
"I'd like to see more police on the streets and officers using stop-and-search powers more robustly in problem areas. People wouldn't be worried if they had nothing to hide."[/quote]Wise words from a sensible and practical man.
The solution is obvious, both from history and practicality - effective deterrent retribution punishments.
Why is this such a problem to the people who rule our lives? Are they just simply lazy?
Parental control of kids? - if they are as strong as you and violent, there is not much you can do about it. Don't forget, under our present laws, they can punch you out, but if you so much as lay a finger on them - ! the old faithful accusation is used, "I am being abused", and the mighty state institutions unhesitatingly forcefully move in to demand prove of innocence.
You must also bear in mind that incest, while not being the norm, is generally regarded as not being uncommon. So it is no good making some parents responsible for their kid's behaviour, because they are not responsible themselves.
But New Forest West MP Desmond Swayne said calls for a curfew were "daft".
He added: "I believe in punishing the guilty - not the innocent. Why should we make every young person pay? It's daft.
"We have to look at more severe punishments for those caught carrying knives, school discipline and parenting. Many issues have led to increasing disorder in society.
"I'd like to see more police on the streets and officers using stop-and-search powers more robustly in problem areas. People wouldn't be worried if they had nothing to hide."
Wise words from a sensible and practical man.
The solution is obvious, both from history and practicality - effective deterrent retribution punishments.
Why is this such a problem to the people who rule our lives? Are they just simply lazy?
Parental control of kids? - if they are as strong as you and violent, there is not much you can do about it. Don't forget, under our present laws, they can punch you out, but if you so much as lay a finger on them - ! the old faithful accusation is used, "I am being abused", and the mighty state institutions unhesitatingly forcefully move in to demand prove of innocence.
You must also bear in mind that incest, while not being the norm, is generally regarded as not being uncommon. So it is no good making some parents responsible for their kid's behaviour, because they are not responsible themselves.
Posted by: sharpy, Southbourne on 9:25am Tue 15 Jul 08
Maria Wrote:
"I have a polite teenager who prefers to spend time with his family playing sport than going out with friends"
Excuse me for saying this but that really isn't healthy. Your son sounds like an outstanding citizen and one we should all look up to but to me a 16yo guy who wants to spend time with their family and doesn't want to spend time with friends/others their own age sounds like they may be in trouble on a different level. Not all the problems with the youth result or show themselves as violence.
These are hard times we live in and it saddens me to see all the knife crime. I myself was brought up in a similar environment with firm rules and wouldn't change it for the world. So I fully agree that parents can watch their children and keep some control and if they are in trouble im pretty sure there is advice and help that can be sought to aid a family if they have a difficult child before it becomes a problem.... If there is no advice for parents WHY NOT?!
As they say education is the best way forward so maybe rather then punishment (both the guilty and innocent) why not try prevention.
Sorry if I caused offence earlier just something rung an alarm bell there.
Maria Wrote:
"I have a polite teenager who prefers to spend time with his family playing sport than going out with friends"
Excuse me for saying this but that really isn't healthy. Your son sounds like an outstanding citizen and one we should all look up to but to me a 16yo guy who wants to spend time with their family and doesn't want to spend time with friends/others their own age sounds like they may be in trouble on a different level. Not all the problems with the youth result or show themselves as violence.
These are hard times we live in and it saddens me to see all the knife crime. I myself was brought up in a similar environment with firm rules and wouldn't change it for the world. So I fully agree that parents can watch their children and keep some control and if they are in trouble im pretty sure there is advice and help that can be sought to aid a family if they have a difficult child before it becomes a problem.... If there is no advice for parents WHY NOT?!
As they say education is the best way forward so maybe rather then punishment (both the guilty and innocent) why not try prevention.
Sorry if I caused offence earlier just something rung an alarm bell there.
Posted by: sam, christchurch on 10:12am Tue 15 Jul 08
MMMM let me see, a teenager who likes to play sport with his family or a teenager who likes to hang on street corners causing trouble. Wonder which one I'd prefer. How can it be not healthy to want to spend time with your family, my daughter is 15 and she always comes on our outings, we go swimming as a family, rollerblading etc. Hardly unhealthy if she is having so much fun. What would you rather have Sharpy, yobs with no respect for their family.
MMMM let me see, a teenager who likes to play sport with his family or a teenager who likes to hang on street corners causing trouble. Wonder which one I'd prefer. How can it be not healthy to want to spend time with your family, my daughter is 15 and she always comes on our outings, we go swimming as a family, rollerblading etc. Hardly unhealthy if she is having so much fun. What would you rather have Sharpy, yobs with no respect for their family.
Posted by: Maria, christchurch on 10:31am Tue 15 Jul 08
The point I was trying to make, which perhaps didn't come across clearly enough is that my son couldn't think of anything more boring than standing on a street corner with nothing to do. When he goes out he'd rather be playing sport, which we do as a family, or coming out on our day/cycling trips with his siblings. He has plenty of friends who come along with us at various times. He just doesn't see the point of wasting time with yobs (his words not mine.). I do not think this is unhealthy, far from it I am pleased he has such an active life. I was trying to get across the point that we have always lavished our children with attention and consequently their lives are so rich they do not need to hang about causing trouble.
The point I was trying to make, which perhaps didn't come across clearly enough is that my son couldn't think of anything more boring than standing on a street corner with nothing to do. When he goes out he'd rather be playing sport, which we do as a family, or coming out on our day/cycling trips with his siblings. He has plenty of friends who come along with us at various times. He just doesn't see the point of wasting time with yobs (his words not mine.). I do not think this is unhealthy, far from it I am pleased he has such an active life. I was trying to get across the point that we have always lavished our children with attention and consequently their lives are so rich they do not need to hang about causing trouble.
Posted by: scorpio3, dorset on 10:34am Tue 15 Jul 08
You can teach your kids all about respecting other people, untill your blue in the face, but as soon as they go to school they have other influences,badly run schools are the problem, kids who are disruptive and violent dont get the help they need,and are not dealt with at an early age ,so a lot of other kids are having to deal with violence at an early age,by the time they go through secondary school they have learnt how to deal with problems through violence because thats all they know. They know no one can sort it out for them , teachers cant do anything,when they leave school ,its each man for themselves ,hence they are stronger in numbers, hence they join the gangs. It really does start at school,please put more investment in schools and after school activities ,lets make these kids feel safe in life...
You can teach your kids all about respecting other people, untill your blue in the face, but as soon as they go to school they have other influences,badly run schools are the problem, kids who are disruptive and violent dont get the help they need,and are not dealt with at an early age ,so a lot of other kids are having to deal with violence at an early age,by the time they go through secondary school they have learnt how to deal with problems through violence because thats all they know. They know no one can sort it out for them , teachers cant do anything,when they leave school ,its each man for themselves ,hence they are stronger in numbers, hence they join the gangs. It really does start at school,please put more investment in schools and after school activities ,lets make these kids feel safe in life...
Posted by: dibbles, Bournemouth on 10:39am Tue 15 Jul 08
Perhaps the surfews should be enforced in certain arears for example no persons under the age of 16 in the town centre unless with a "responsible adult". Quote"So I fully agree that parents can watch their children and keep some control and if they are in trouble im pretty sure there is advice and help that can be sought to aid a family if they have a difficult child before it becomes a problem.... If there is no advice for parents WHY NOT?!"Now there is a question?
Perhaps the surfews should be enforced in certain arears for example no persons under the age of 16 in the town centre unless with a "responsible adult". Quote"So I fully agree that parents can watch their children and keep some control and if they are in trouble im pretty sure there is advice and help that can be sought to aid a family if they have a difficult child before it becomes a problem.... If there is no advice for parents WHY NOT?!"Now there is a question?
Posted by: suec, bournemouth on 10:56am Tue 15 Jul 08
My son is just approaching his 16th birthday. Until recently although kicking at the traces of parental control he still complied (albeit grudgingly) to house rules and my authority. Recently he has fallen in with a group of friends at school who are not so disciplined and has started to truant from school on occasion and go out at weekends to Poole to "hang around" with his friends.
A couple of weeks ago as a punishment for mis-behaving (truancy) I cut his mobile phone contract and he subsequently refused to come home for 3 days and would eventually only talk to me at an arranged meeting at his school. Since he has been home his attitude has been "when I am 16 I can do as I like".My response is generally not in my home. His grievances are that he has to go to bed by 10pm on a school night(weekends I allow him to go to bed when he wants) restricted computer time (1.5 hours school nights & 2 hours on a Sat/Sunday)and the fact that I expect him to help in the house at weekends by keeping his room clean/tidy and alternating washing up on a daily basis with his sister.Not too tough a life?? He thinks I am unreasonable and "tight" because I remove computer time when he does not comply.
This is the only "punishment" that I have left now thanks to the government and all those do gooders who "protect" the interests of children so parents are no longer allowed to discipline. As i so often get thrown at me "you're not allowed to do that - i'll report you".
He stays at his friend's house sometimes on a school night because he "cba" to get a bus home, he also stays occasionally on a weekend night. How can I control what he does when he is not in my home? How can I stop a lad who is taller and strong then me from walking out the door if he wants to, how can I force him to come home if he doesn't want to? I can't because I am not allowed to physically drag him home or physically punish when necessary.
On the whole he is a good lad and compared to many of his piers is well behaved but all my "rights" as a parent have been eroded by various agencies and I think we are just starting to see the tip of the iceburg - results from the intervention of removal of discipline by parents and by schools. We are going to see more and more trouble by uncontrollable thugs- male & female - in our society as they have not been taught discipline and control or been shown what behaviour is acceptable/ unacceptable. Not through parents lack of trying but because parents are not allowed to try. A small slap on the hand when the toddler is misbehaving works a treat-what 2 year old in the middle of misbehaving is going to respond to a voice command if there is no element of punishment for ignoring requests? I see it day in and day out. Kids uncontrollable, bad language, violence - it's ok for a kid to kick or hit the parent but not the other way round- this country is going to the dogs.
Talk about educating parents? There was not this sort of problem 50 years ago when families were able to control their own youngsters without interference. I know some children are abused by adults but even with all these rules and regulations today this abuse still continues because the abusers do it behind closed doors and will continue to do so whatever laws are passed - it won't stop them but it does stop normal parents who want their children to grow into well balanced adults who can contribute to society by being able to exert discipline when necessary.
I was brought up by very strict parents and although I personally left home at 16 it has installed in me very strong moral guidlines. I do not beat my children, they used to have the occasional slap when younger if naughty but most of the time just the threat of a slap was enough to control their behaviour. They always had a warning when misbehaving and an explanation as the the reasoning behind why their behaviour was considered unsuitable and until recently that was enough to produce 2 polite, considerate children, but now my son has met lads who have not had the same up bringing and all my hard work appears to be undone.
My son is just approaching his 16th birthday. Until recently although kicking at the traces of parental control he still complied (albeit grudgingly) to house rules and my authority. Recently he has fallen in with a group of friends at school who are not so disciplined and has started to truant from school on occasion and go out at weekends to Poole to "hang around" with his friends.
A couple of weeks ago as a punishment for mis-behaving (truancy) I cut his mobile phone contract and he subsequently refused to come home for 3 days and would eventually only talk to me at an arranged meeting at his school. Since he has been home his attitude has been "when I am 16 I can do as I like".My response is generally not in my home. His grievances are that he has to go to bed by 10pm on a school night(weekends I allow him to go to bed when he wants) restricted computer time (1.5 hours school nights & 2 hours on a Sat/Sunday)and the fact that I expect him to help in the house at weekends by keeping his room clean/tidy and alternating washing up on a daily basis with his sister.Not too tough a life?? He thinks I am unreasonable and "tight" because I remove computer time when he does not comply.
This is the only "punishment" that I have left now thanks to the government and all those do gooders who "protect" the interests of children so parents are no longer allowed to discipline. As i so often get thrown at me "you're not allowed to do that - i'll report you".
He stays at his friend's house sometimes on a school night because he "cba" to get a bus home, he also stays occasionally on a weekend night. How can I control what he does when he is not in my home? How can I stop a lad who is taller and strong then me from walking out the door if he wants to, how can I force him to come home if he doesn't want to? I can't because I am not allowed to physically drag him home or physically punish when necessary.
On the whole he is a good lad and compared to many of his piers is well behaved but all my "rights" as a parent have been eroded by various agencies and I think we are just starting to see the tip of the iceburg - results from the intervention of removal of discipline by parents and by schools. We are going to see more and more trouble by uncontrollable thugs- male & female - in our society as they have not been taught discipline and control or been shown what behaviour is acceptable/ unacceptable. Not through parents lack of trying but because parents are not allowed to try. A small slap on the hand when the toddler is misbehaving works a treat-what 2 year old in the middle of misbehaving is going to respond to a voice command if there is no element of punishment for ignoring requests? I see it day in and day out. Kids uncontrollable, bad language, violence - it's ok for a kid to kick or hit the parent but not the other way round- this country is going to the dogs.
Talk about educating parents? There was not this sort of problem 50 years ago when families were able to control their own youngsters without interference. I know some children are abused by adults but even with all these rules and regulations today this abuse still continues because the abusers do it behind closed doors and will continue to do so whatever laws are passed - it won't stop them but it does stop normal parents who want their children to grow into well balanced adults who can contribute to society by being able to exert discipline when necessary.
I was brought up by very strict parents and although I personally left home at 16 it has installed in me very strong moral guidlines. I do not beat my children, they used to have the occasional slap when younger if naughty but most of the time just the threat of a slap was enough to control their behaviour. They always had a warning when misbehaving and an explanation as the the reasoning behind why their behaviour was considered unsuitable and until recently that was enough to produce 2 polite, considerate children, but now my son has met lads who have not had the same up bringing and all my hard work appears to be undone.
Posted by: serendipity, Bournemouth on 10:59am Tue 15 Jul 08
i'm with you maria and sam, on this one i have two sons the oldest is 16 and the youngest 12. neither of whom have ever been in trouble. one of the reasons is that we keep them busy doing things together as a family you know what the old saying says "the devil makes work for idle hands" on the flip side thought I do know that there are decent families out there who through no fault of their own have children that they really cannot control, one very good friend of mine with 3 children had exactly the same problem with one of her kids that JENNYMAC2008 quoted. things got so bad for her that her son actually came and lived with me and my family as she really could not cope with him any more. he stayed with me on and off from the age of 12 untill 16. and i can honestly say apart from the odd little thing we never really had a problem with him. that said i dont think that this had anything to do with my parenting skills, and i'm not saying that i could do any more or any better for him than his mother could i personally put it down to the fact that he was with someone else and not his own family. as any parent knows sometimes kids behave differently for other people that for their own parents.
i'm with you maria and sam, on this one i have two sons the oldest is 16 and the youngest 12. neither of whom have ever been in trouble. one of the reasons is that we keep them busy doing things together as a family you know what the old saying says "the devil makes work for idle hands" on the flip side thought I do know that there are decent families out there who through no fault of their own have children that they really cannot control, one very good friend of mine with 3 children had exactly the same problem with one of her kids that JENNYMAC2008 quoted. things got so bad for her that her son actually came and lived with me and my family as she really could not cope with him any more. he stayed with me on and off from the age of 12 untill 16. and i can honestly say apart from the odd little thing we never really had a problem with him. that said i dont think that this had anything to do with my parenting skills, and i'm not saying that i could do any more or any better for him than his mother could i personally put it down to the fact that he was with someone else and not his own family. as any parent knows sometimes kids behave differently for other people that for their own parents.
Posted by: sharpy, Southbourne on 11:24am Tue 15 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Maria[/bold] wrote:
The point I was trying to make, which perhaps didn't come across clearly enough is that my son couldn't think of anything more boring than standing on a street corner with nothing to do. When he goes out he'd rather be playing sport, which we do as a family, or coming out on our day/cycling trips with his siblings. He has plenty of friends who come along with us at various times. He just doesn't see the point of wasting time with yobs (his words not mine.). I do not think this is unhealthy, far from it I am pleased he has such an active life. I was trying to get across the point that we have always lavished our children with attention and consequently their lives are so rich they do not need to hang about causing trouble. [/quote] Ok I think I got the wrong end of the stick there Maria. Please accept my apologies.
When I said unhealthy its more a case of not spending time with peer groups isn't good for social development in my opinion but it seems he has that as well as the family support so would have to say that's a perfect balance.
I guess I come from a different time. I'm by no means that old. But 'hanging' out with my mates when I was 15/16 meant going skateboarding, cycling or on the odd evening playing pool in anywhere that would let us in. True I wandered the street at night but for the most part we were a little loud ok but I never hit, hurt or damaged any property other then the odd pavement curb ;) I don't think any of my friends caused any real trouble other then the odd telling off for getting in the way a bit.
I guess a lot has changed in the last 7 or 8 years!
I'm trying not to tarnish all kids with the same brush. Quite a few of my friends have younger brothers and sisters around the 16 mark. not all of them are that bad. But it does seem there are a fair few more bad eggs now.
When I said 'educate' parents I didn't quite mean it in a classroom sense. I meant it more as help for parents. If you have ever seen the super nanny type programs I meant something like that, and maybe the American's are onto a good idea with the boot camps. Just an idea.
Maria wrote:
The point I was trying to make, which perhaps didn't come across clearly enough is that my son couldn't think of anything more boring than standing on a street corner with nothing to do. When he goes out he'd rather be playing sport, which we do as a family, or coming out on our day/cycling trips with his siblings. He has plenty of friends who come along with us at various times. He just doesn't see the point of wasting time with yobs (his words not mine.). I do not think this is unhealthy, far from it I am pleased he has such an active life. I was trying to get across the point that we have always lavished our children with attention and consequently their lives are so rich they do not need to hang about causing trouble.
Ok I think I got the wrong end of the stick there Maria. Please accept my apologies.
When I said unhealthy its more a case of not spending time with peer groups isn't good for social development in my opinion but it seems he has that as well as the family support so would have to say that's a perfect balance.
I guess I come from a different time. I'm by no means that old. But 'hanging' out with my mates when I was 15/16 meant going skateboarding, cycling or on the odd evening playing pool in anywhere that would let us in. True I wandered the street at night but for the most part we were a little loud ok but I never hit, hurt or damaged any property other then the odd pavement curb ;) I don't think any of my friends caused any real trouble other then the odd telling off for getting in the way a bit.
I guess a lot has changed in the last 7 or 8 years!
I'm trying not to tarnish all kids with the same brush. Quite a few of my friends have younger brothers and sisters around the 16 mark. not all of them are that bad. But it does seem there are a fair few more bad eggs now.
When I said 'educate' parents I didn't quite mean it in a classroom sense. I meant it more as help for parents. If you have ever seen the super nanny type programs I meant something like that, and maybe the American's are onto a good idea with the boot camps. Just an idea.
Posted by: JENNYMAC2008, BOURNEMOUTH on 11:56am Tue 15 Jul 08
Maybe we are complicating things too much? When I was a teenager, I had to make my own entertainment. My parents didn't spend with me. I just had an ingrained understanding that what they said went. I was no angel, but wouldn't of dreamt of causing anyone any harm or distress, and if I did step over the boundaries, I accepted there would be a punishment suited to what I had done. As a parent I, on the other hand spent every weekend while my son was small going on outings, sent him to the local football club from the age of 6, then on to sunday league, when I spent every Sunday watching his matches. I helped and encouraged him with homework, and have always gone out to work for everything we have. It still didn't stop him from going through a stage of being an unrecognisable monster. Some times people just make bad choices in their lives, what our parents may or may not have done doesn't come into it. Society as a whole, not just youngsters must start realising that there are personal consequences for personal actions and to stop making excuses. The law is supposed to be there to protect the innocent. Stop limiting parent's powers to discipline, stop giving excuses to kids for their behaviour, bring in zero tolerance, fine anyone caught supplying them with alcohol, make cosequences that affect the offender, not the victims?
Maybe we are complicating things too much? When I was a teenager, I had to make my own entertainment. My parents didn't spend with me. I just had an ingrained understanding that what they said went. I was no angel, but wouldn't of dreamt of causing anyone any harm or distress, and if I did step over the boundaries, I accepted there would be a punishment suited to what I had done. As a parent I, on the other hand spent every weekend while my son was small going on outings, sent him to the local football club from the age of 6, then on to sunday league, when I spent every Sunday watching his matches. I helped and encouraged him with homework, and have always gone out to work for everything we have. It still didn't stop him from going through a stage of being an unrecognisable monster. Some times people just make bad choices in their lives, what our parents may or may not have done doesn't come into it. Society as a whole, not just youngsters must start realising that there are personal consequences for personal actions and to stop making excuses. The law is supposed to be there to protect the innocent. Stop limiting parent's powers to discipline, stop giving excuses to kids for their behaviour, bring in zero tolerance, fine anyone caught supplying them with alcohol, make cosequences that affect the offender, not the victims?
Posted by: JLC2, here on 12:41pm Tue 15 Jul 08
Just take responsibility for your children. If you are unable to do that you should have them taken away.
I'd advocate a suitability test for people before they are allowed children. It amazes me that you need a licence to breed dogs but not children.
Just take responsibility for your children. If you are unable to do that you should have them taken away.
I'd advocate a suitability test for people before they are allowed children. It amazes me that you need a licence to breed dogs but not children.
Posted by: JENNYMAC2008, BOURNEMOUTH on 1:04pm Tue 15 Jul 08
Well, I'm sure if we did the necessary to take control of them, with the law how it is, and the many excuses they live behind today they would be taken away. So maybe you're right?
Well, I'm sure if we did the necessary to take control of them, with the law how it is, and the many excuses they live behind today they would be taken away. So maybe you're right?
Posted by: PokesdownMark, Pokesdown on 1:47pm Tue 15 Jul 08
suec... I am with you generally but then you said:
[quote]There was not this sort of problem 50 years ago when families were able to control their own youngsters without interference.
[/quote]
There is a strong tendancy to look back on the good old days with little evidence or research. I can assure you that exactly these sorts of problems happened 50 years ago. Along with widespread poverty, prejudice and racism... but no to widen the discussion too much here.
Many people on this thread have great kids. My three are too are fantastic - model citizens in fact. But I know families that have kids that are a handful. And I see no correlation in terms of family values, wealth, education. If you have good kids you can take some credit, sure. But I do not think the connection is as strong as thought. So my overall point is this: it is not a simple as [italic]bad parents[/italic] and simply imposing fines will not resolve the issue. Help the parents, sure. But don't just take money from them.
suec... I am with you generally but then you said:
There was not this sort of problem 50 years ago when families were able to control their own youngsters without interference.
There is a strong tendancy to look back on the good old days with little evidence or research. I can assure you that exactly these sorts of problems happened 50 years ago. Along with widespread poverty, prejudice and racism... but no to widen the discussion too much here.
Many people on this thread have great kids. My three are too are fantastic - model citizens in fact. But I know families that have kids that are a handful. And I see no correlation in terms of family values, wealth, education. If you have good kids you can take some credit, sure. But I do not think the connection is as strong as thought. So my overall point is this: it is not a simple as
bad parents and simply imposing fines will not resolve the issue. Help the parents, sure. But don't just take money from them.
Posted by: Christopher, Wallisdown & Winton West on 1:53pm Tue 15 Jul 08
That sort of comment was expected from the likes of JLC2.
In case you are unaware, no parents go out to produce kids that are destined to cause trouble. How can any one judge that from a baby the size of a hand in a cot or pram. How ridiculous.
We, as has been said, were brought up with discipline. This included, when neccesary, slaps or telling offs from parents, the local bobby, corporal punishment in schools, etc etc.
As has been said also, this was taken from the parent and the schools some time ago, and the results are as we see today. On top of this we have a criminal system that does not work, and a judicial system that does not give the right punishment.
Looking at it from this point of view, what chance do parent have.
National Service is one step, or a similar sort of system. I can remember gobby, over powering lads joining up when I was teaching in the Navy. Threatening their subordinates, and their peers. They really thought they were the big boys. On completion of training they joined ships going to the Gulf. See their faces change then, see their reactions when coming under missile attack.
The cotton wool system is the problem.
That sort of comment was expected from the likes of JLC2.
In case you are unaware, no parents go out to produce kids that are destined to cause trouble. How can any one judge that from a baby the size of a hand in a cot or pram. How ridiculous.
We, as has been said, were brought up with discipline. This included, when neccesary, slaps or telling offs from parents, the local bobby, corporal punishment in schools, etc etc.
As has been said also, this was taken from the parent and the schools some time ago, and the results are as we see today. On top of this we have a criminal system that does not work, and a judicial system that does not give the right punishment.
Looking at it from this point of view, what chance do parent have.
National Service is one step, or a similar sort of system. I can remember gobby, over powering lads joining up when I was teaching in the Navy. Threatening their subordinates, and their peers. They really thought they were the big boys. On completion of training they joined ships going to the Gulf. See their faces change then, see their reactions when coming under missile attack.
The cotton wool system is the problem.
Posted by: PETE WOODLEY on 2:23pm Tue 15 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Christopher[/bold] wrote:
That sort of comment was expected from the likes of JLC2.
In case you are unaware, no parents go out to produce kids that are destined to cause trouble. How can any one judge that from a baby the size of a hand in a cot or pram. How ridiculous.
We, as has been said, were brought up with discipline. This included, when neccesary, slaps or telling offs from parents, the local bobby, corporal punishment in schools, etc etc.
As has been said also, this was taken from the parent and the schools some time ago, and the results are as we see today. On top of this we have a criminal system that does not work, and a judicial system that does not give the right punishment.
Looking at it from this point of view, what chance do parent have.
National Service is one step, or a similar sort of system. I can remember gobby, over powering lads joining up when I was teaching in the Navy. Threatening their subordinates, and their peers. They really thought they were the big boys. On completion of training they joined ships going to the Gulf. See their faces change then, see their reactions when coming under missile attack.
The cotton wool system is the problem.
[/quote] I cant remember reading about our ships being attacked by missiles ?.
Christopher wrote:
That sort of comment was expected from the likes of JLC2.
In case you are unaware, no parents go out to produce kids that are destined to cause trouble. How can any one judge that from a baby the size of a hand in a cot or pram. How ridiculous.
We, as has been said, were brought up with discipline. This included, when neccesary, slaps or telling offs from parents, the local bobby, corporal punishment in schools, etc etc.
As has been said also, this was taken from the parent and the schools some time ago, and the results are as we see today. On top of this we have a criminal system that does not work, and a judicial system that does not give the right punishment.
Looking at it from this point of view, what chance do parent have.
National Service is one step, or a similar sort of system. I can remember gobby, over powering lads joining up when I was teaching in the Navy. Threatening their subordinates, and their peers. They really thought they were the big boys. On completion of training they joined ships going to the Gulf. See their faces change then, see their reactions when coming under missile attack.
The cotton wool system is the problem.
I cant remember reading about our ships being attacked by missiles ?.
Posted by: JLC2, here on 2:43pm Tue 15 Jul 08
It's quite simple really. You can gauge the suitability of a parent in the following ways:
1) Do they wear Elizabeth Duke jewellery?
2) Do they smoke B&H, lamberts or royal cigarettes?
3) Do they have Sky TV?
4) Are they unemployed?
5) Are they on benefits for "stress" or are just "unable to work" through some fabled illness or injury?
6) Do they wear Lonsdale jumpers?
7) Do they have visible tattoos?
8) Do they eat Rustlers burgers, Turkey Twislers or any other type of heavily processed meat based snacks?
9) Do they swear, in public, frequently?
10) Do they have bits of cars in their front garden?
If the answer to more than one of these is yes, I'm willing to bet my Q7 on the fact that they're going to be a pretty lousy parent.
It's quite simple really. You can gauge the suitability of a parent in the following ways:
1) Do they wear Elizabeth Duke jewellery?
2) Do they smoke B&H, lamberts or royal cigarettes?
3) Do they have Sky TV?
4) Are they unemployed?
5) Are they on benefits for "stress" or are just "unable to work" through some fabled illness or injury?
6) Do they wear Lonsdale jumpers?
7) Do they have visible tattoos?
8) Do they eat Rustlers burgers, Turkey Twislers or any other type of heavily processed meat based snacks?
9) Do they swear, in public, frequently?
10) Do they have bits of cars in their front garden?
If the answer to more than one of these is yes, I'm willing to bet my Q7 on the fact that they're going to be a pretty lousy parent.
Posted by: Donna on 2:46pm Tue 15 Jul 08
I completely agree 100% with Maria and Sam. I have 4 children two of them grown up and left home now and 1 grandchild. I am 37 and think it is time that parents started to parent their children. Not to just allow them to roam the streets. Where I live children as young as 2 are out on the streets. I am emigrating and just hope and pray that something changes here soon before the youth culture gets completely out of hand. (Pretty much there right now).
I completely agree 100% with Maria and Sam. I have 4 children two of them grown up and left home now and 1 grandchild. I am 37 and think it is time that parents started to parent their children. Not to just allow them to roam the streets. Where I live children as young as 2 are out on the streets. I am emigrating and just hope and pray that something changes here soon before the youth culture gets completely out of hand. (Pretty much there right now).
Posted by: PETE the PILLOCK on 3:34pm Tue 15 Jul 08
you might bump into marsh if you emigrate to fairyland
you might bump into marsh if you emigrate to fairyland
Posted by: Christopher, Wallisdown & Winton West on 4:15pm Tue 15 Jul 08
JLC2, such poppycock. Thank god you do not carry out the surveys or censuses in this town or county.
I know a lot of people with tattoos who live in this town. Ah but, they are all ex or still serving members of the armed forces. And I cannot think of anyone of them of being a lousy parent.
JLC2, such poppycock. Thank god you do not carry out the surveys or censuses in this town or county.
I know a lot of people with tattoos who live in this town. Ah but, they are all ex or still serving members of the armed forces. And I cannot think of anyone of them of being a lousy parent.
Posted by: The Puppet Master, Bournemouth on 4:25pm Tue 15 Jul 08
[bold]bold[/bold] WOW[bold]bold[/bold] JLC2 you do live in a strange world of your own, are you sure you`re not our council leader, or do you just live on the same cloud as him? I know everyone has got their own views but you must really hate the world the way you talk. Just take a deep breath and try to loosen up a bit. You`ll feel much better.
WOW JLC2 you do live in a strange world of your own, are you sure you`re not our council leader, or do you just live on the same cloud as him? I know everyone has got their own views but you must really hate the world the way you talk. Just take a deep breath and try to loosen up a bit. You`ll feel much better.
Posted by: JLC2, here on 4:26pm Tue 15 Jul 08
Yes but do they combine it with one of the other ten traits? You can get away with one, but two is a no-no.
Yes but do they combine it with one of the other ten traits? You can get away with one, but two is a no-no.
Posted by: Hugh, Bournemouth on 6:13pm Tue 15 Jul 08
The following is only my opinion and your opinion is as important and valued to me as mine.
It is the parents who should have responsibility for their children, but too often the state has intervened and interfered by, not holding the parent responsible, but setting up over bearing authoritive schools and limiting the parents ability to give corrective guidance in the form of corporal punishment (which is readily understood by the very young child where reasoning or sanctions are not) and deprivations such as going to bed without any supper.
The state should do much more to support parents in their parental duties, and less interference.
But it is the parents who should have responsibility for their children and held responsible.
[italic][quote]Ephesians 6:1-3 (King James Version)
1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.
2 Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise;
3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth[/quote][/italic]
The following is only my opinion and your opinion is as important and valued to me as mine.
It is the parents who should have responsibility for their children, but too often the state has intervened and interfered by, not holding the parent responsible, but setting up over bearing authoritive schools and limiting the parents ability to give corrective guidance in the form of corporal punishment (which is readily understood by the very young child where reasoning or sanctions are not) and deprivations such as going to bed without any supper.
The state should do much more to support parents in their parental duties, and less interference.
But it is the parents who should have responsibility for their children and held responsible.
Ephesians 6:1-3 (King James Version)
1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.
2 Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise;
3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth
Posted by: fedupwithjobsworths, Moordown on 6:54pm Tue 15 Jul 08
We are reaping the benefits of our do-gooder run society. Parents are not allowed to punish, schools are not allowed to discipline, police are not allowed to enforce the law and our legal system lets offenders off scot free. The do-gooders now try to blame parents for this mess.
We are reaping the benefits of our do-gooder run society. Parents are not allowed to punish, schools are not allowed to discipline, police are not allowed to enforce the law and our legal system lets offenders off scot free. The do-gooders now try to blame parents for this mess.
Posted by: hoppity, hamworthy on 7:31pm Tue 15 Jul 08
I think there are two types of parents, the ones who's kids still get into trouble despite their best efforts and when they do the parents take responsibility. The other type of parent who dont give a fig when their kids are in trouble and think that it's not their job. Also we are too soft on children today I see some as young a 7 or 8 telling their parents what to do. Its more difficult when they are 16 and over but still possible to keep an eye on, I wont say I knew all the time where my daughter was at 14/15 but we did our best we would call her friends house where she was supposed to check. she had a curfew. I do believe parental control starts very young and although it's tough especially if you are a single parent but it is possible if you keep at it.
I think there are two types of parents, the ones who's kids still get into trouble despite their best efforts and when they do the parents take responsibility. The other type of parent who dont give a fig when their kids are in trouble and think that it's not their job. Also we are too soft on children today I see some as young a 7 or 8 telling their parents what to do. Its more difficult when they are 16 and over but still possible to keep an eye on, I wont say I knew all the time where my daughter was at 14/15 but we did our best we would call her friends house where she was supposed to check. she had a curfew. I do believe parental control starts very young and although it's tough especially if you are a single parent but it is possible if you keep at it.
Posted by: Dorsetman1986, Wimborne on 8:30pm Tue 15 Jul 08
I fully agree. Maybe then more people will see that it IS just a minority causing the problem.
To be honest though parents who constantly check up on their kids and try to parent them into good kids end up making them more into tearaways so it's a fine line to tread.
Maybe some sort of incentive scheme for parents and their children for NOT getting in to trouble as well?
I fully agree. Maybe then more people will see that it IS just a minority causing the problem.
To be honest though parents who constantly check up on their kids and try to parent them into good kids end up making them more into tearaways so it's a fine line to tread.
Maybe some sort of incentive scheme for parents and their children for NOT getting in to trouble as well?
Posted by: Phil, Poole on 10:05am Wed 16 Jul 08
I don't think they've thought this one through. Imagine a teenage yob who already disrespects his parents and goes out causing trouble. Is he really going to be bothered if they get fined? In fact, it may even give him more leverage over them: “Let me do/have whatever I like or I'll break the law and get [bold]you[/bold] into trouble.”
I don't think they've thought this one through. Imagine a teenage yob who already disrespects his parents and goes out causing trouble. Is he really going to be bothered if they get fined? In fact, it may even give him more leverage over them: “Let me do/have whatever I like or I'll break the law and get
you into trouble.”
Posted by: Disgusted Dad, Townsend on 11:18am Wed 16 Jul 08
[quote][bold]JLC2[/bold] wrote:
It's quite simple really. You can gauge the suitability of a parent in the following ways: 1) Do they wear Elizabeth Duke jewellery? 2) Do they smoke B&H, lamberts or royal cigarettes? 3) Do they have Sky TV? 4) Are they unemployed? 5) Are they on benefits for "stress" or are just "unable to work" through some fabled illness or injury? 6) Do they wear Lonsdale jumpers? 7) Do they have visible tattoos? 8) Do they eat Rustlers burgers, Turkey Twislers or any other type of heavily processed meat based snacks? 9) Do they swear, in public, frequently? 10) Do they have bits of cars in their front garden? If the answer to more than one of these is yes, I'm willing to bet my Q7 on the fact that they're going to be a pretty lousy parent.[/quote] Bet your Q7
What sort of Ar*e are you JLC2 ?
You want us all to know you drive a massively expensive gas guzzling Audi whilst you slag off everyone else!!
What a moron.
You have ably demonstrated your complete unsuitability to add to the gene pool.
None of your 10 "tests" have any bearing on someones ability as a parent.
Try care, love, and many other positive values instead of taking a bigoted view.
It's obvious you dont have a decent IQ let alone a Q7.
JLC2 wrote:
It's quite simple really. You can gauge the suitability of a parent in the following ways: 1) Do they wear Elizabeth Duke jewellery? 2) Do they smoke B&H, lamberts or royal cigarettes? 3) Do they have Sky TV? 4) Are they unemployed? 5) Are they on benefits for "stress" or are just "unable to work" through some fabled illness or injury? 6) Do they wear Lonsdale jumpers? 7) Do they have visible tattoos? 8) Do they eat Rustlers burgers, Turkey Twislers or any other type of heavily processed meat based snacks? 9) Do they swear, in public, frequently? 10) Do they have bits of cars in their front garden? If the answer to more than one of these is yes, I'm willing to bet my Q7 on the fact that they're going to be a pretty lousy parent.
Bet your Q7
What sort of Ar*e are you JLC2 ?
You want us all to know you drive a massively expensive gas guzzling Audi whilst you slag off everyone else!!
What a moron.
You have ably demonstrated your complete unsuitability to add to the gene pool.
None of your 10 "tests" have any bearing on someones ability as a parent.
Try care, love, and many other positive values instead of taking a bigoted view.
It's obvious you dont have a decent IQ let alone a Q7.
Posted by: Christopher, Wallisdown & Winton West on 5:27pm Wed 16 Jul 08
[quote][bold]JLC2[/bold] wrote:
Yes but do they combine it with one of the other ten traits? You can get away with one, but two is a no-no.[/quote] Firstly well said DD above.
Some may have two JLC2, ie, Sky TV. Suggest you get down to the Armed Forces Careers Office and let them now of they people.
Mr. Woodley, I was referring to the 1991 Desert Storm. Yes missiles were fired at ships.
JLC2 wrote:
Yes but do they combine it with one of the other ten traits? You can get away with one, but two is a no-no.
Firstly well said DD above.
Some may have two JLC2, ie, Sky TV. Suggest you get down to the Armed Forces Careers Office and let them now of they people.
Mr. Woodley, I was referring to the 1991 Desert Storm. Yes missiles were fired at ships.
Posted by: JLC2, here on 6:32pm Wed 16 Jul 08
My unsutability to add to the gene pool? I can afford to raise my kids thanks, and take them to school in a decent car so they aren't on the streets to cause problems. Don't point the jealous finger at me because you can't provide a stable grounding for your kids.
My unsutability to add to the gene pool? I can afford to raise my kids thanks, and take them to school in a decent car so they aren't on the streets to cause problems. Don't point the jealous finger at me because you can't provide a stable grounding for your kids.
Posted by: Dorsetman1986, Wimborne on 6:58pm Wed 16 Jul 08
[quote][bold]JLC2[/bold] wrote:
My unsutability to add to the gene pool? I can afford to raise my kids thanks, and take them to school in a decent car so they aren't on the streets to cause problems. Don't point the jealous finger at me because you can't provide a stable grounding for your kids.[/quote] Do you mean get them in a 4x4 and drive them 30 seconds down the road, and dropping them off at school in a no park zone?
JLC2 wrote:
My unsutability to add to the gene pool? I can afford to raise my kids thanks, and take them to school in a decent car so they aren't on the streets to cause problems. Don't point the jealous finger at me because you can't provide a stable grounding for your kids.
Do you mean get them in a 4x4 and drive them 30 seconds down the road, and dropping them off at school in a no park zone?
Posted by: PETE WOODLEY on 7:42pm Wed 16 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Christopher[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]JLC2[/bold] wrote:
Yes but do they combine it with one of the other ten traits? You can get away with one, but two is a no-no.[/quote] Firstly well said DD above.
Some may have two JLC2, ie, Sky TV. Suggest you get down to the Armed Forces Careers Office and let them now of they people.
Mr. Woodley, I was referring to the 1991 Desert Storm. Yes missiles were fired at ships.
[/quote] Take your word for it.
Christopher wrote:
JLC2 wrote:
Yes but do they combine it with one of the other ten traits? You can get away with one, but two is a no-no.
Firstly well said DD above.
Some may have two JLC2, ie, Sky TV. Suggest you get down to the Armed Forces Careers Office and let them now of they people.
Mr. Woodley, I was referring to the 1991 Desert Storm. Yes missiles were fired at ships.
Take your word for it.
Posted by: B.Fair, east howe on 9:18pm Wed 16 Jul 08
What appalling examples of aggression your contributors show in their writings. Is it any wonder that some youngsters think you have to knock people about to get them to do what you want! They are following the example of their elders. It's the same with drinking too much.
Isn't it time we got a grip, grew up, set a better example, took our children with us like they do in some other countries, and enjoyed life?
Of course many people are quietly doing just that, thank goodness.
What appalling examples of aggression your contributors show in their writings. Is it any wonder that some youngsters think you have to knock people about to get them to do what you want! They are following the example of their elders. It's the same with drinking too much.
Isn't it time we got a grip, grew up, set a better example, took our children with us like they do in some other countries, and enjoyed life?
Of course many people are quietly doing just that, thank goodness.
Posted by: hoppity, hamworthy on 7:57am Thu 17 Jul 08
[quote][bold]B.Fair[/bold] wrote:
What appalling examples of aggression your contributors show in their writings. Is it any wonder that some youngsters think you have to knock people about to get them to do what you want! They are following the example of their elders. It's the same with drinking too much. Isn't it time we got a grip, grew up, set a better example, took our children with us like they do in some other countries, and enjoyed life? Of course many people are quietly doing just that, thank goodness. [/quote] hear hear was just reading the above comments and thinking why? can we not give our opinions without insulting each other everbody has a right to have their say but JLC you were quite rude in your assumptions about the parents of trouble makers so you may expect a knee jerk response I find some peoples responses are quite blinkered on here.
B.Fair wrote:
What appalling examples of aggression your contributors show in their writings. Is it any wonder that some youngsters think you have to knock people about to get them to do what you want! They are following the example of their elders. It's the same with drinking too much. Isn't it time we got a grip, grew up, set a better example, took our children with us like they do in some other countries, and enjoyed life? Of course many people are quietly doing just that, thank goodness.
hear hear was just reading the above comments and thinking why? can we not give our opinions without insulting each other everbody has a right to have their say but JLC you were quite rude in your assumptions about the parents of trouble makers so you may expect a knee jerk response I find some peoples responses are quite blinkered on here.
Posted by: JLC2, here on 8:56am Thu 17 Jul 08
What was rude about it? I stand by the facts. I haven't insulted anyone.If you wish to defend potty mouthed, smoking, unemployed people who shop in Argos and have bits of cars in their front garden that's up to you. I wont judge you on it.
What was rude about it? I stand by the facts. I haven't insulted anyone.If you wish to defend potty mouthed, smoking, unemployed people who shop in Argos and have bits of cars in their front garden that's up to you. I wont judge you on it.
Posted by: PETE WOODLEY on 1:46pm Thu 17 Jul 08
[quote][bold]JLC2[/bold] wrote:
My unsutability to add to the gene pool? I can afford to raise my kids thanks, and take them to school in a decent car so they aren't on the streets to cause problems. Don't point the jealous finger at me because you can't provide a stable grounding for your kids.[/quote] jlc2,Have you noticed "chris" and "disgusting dad" are friends again,and chris backing DD after DD had a go at him over Townsend,it looks like DD really fancies himself,i expect muffins pleased.
JLC2 wrote:
My unsutability to add to the gene pool? I can afford to raise my kids thanks, and take them to school in a decent car so they aren't on the streets to cause problems. Don't point the jealous finger at me because you can't provide a stable grounding for your kids.
jlc2,Have you noticed "chris" and "disgusting dad" are friends again,and chris backing DD after DD had a go at him over Townsend,it looks like DD really fancies himself,i expect muffins pleased.
Posted by: Disgusted Dad, Townsend on 2:59pm Thu 17 Jul 08
I don't know Christopher or Mr Woodley, or JLC2.
But, I will comment on bigots such a JLC2 who has nothing better to do than wind people up, as he is obviously very sick in the head.
I stand by my previous comments that Christopher and Mr Woodley do ten to turn some debates into a personal argument.
I am a far from perfect person, father or husband. But I am a decent living, thinking and doing person who has always worked hard and am proud of my parents, and my children and my upbringing. My children are decent well rounded people, who have respect for themselves, others and society.
It is irrelevant what car we or anyone else has or what wealth one has or does not have.
[bold]JLC2 wrote:
My unsutability to add to the gene pool? I can afford to raise my kids thanks, and take them to school in a decent car so they aren't on the streets to cause problems. Don't point the jealous finger at me because you can't provide a stable grounding for your kids[/bold]
I didnt say JLC2 could not afford anything, and I fail to see what type of car makes on a school run.
My kids have a very stable grounding not that its anyones business.
JLC2 is obviously a very insecure, jealous person who really needs us to believe he or shes has everything and is wealthy and so much better than us all.
It is a shame he or she probably doesn't and probably isn't.
I don't know Christopher or Mr Woodley, or JLC2.
But, I will comment on bigots such a JLC2 who has nothing better to do than wind people up, as he is obviously very sick in the head.
I stand by my previous comments that Christopher and Mr Woodley do ten to turn some debates into a personal argument.
I am a far from perfect person, father or husband. But I am a decent living, thinking and doing person who has always worked hard and am proud of my parents, and my children and my upbringing. My children are decent well rounded people, who have respect for themselves, others and society.
It is irrelevant what car we or anyone else has or what wealth one has or does not have.
JLC2 wrote:
My unsutability to add to the gene pool? I can afford to raise my kids thanks, and take them to school in a decent car so they aren't on the streets to cause problems. Don't point the jealous finger at me because you can't provide a stable grounding for your kids
I didnt say JLC2 could not afford anything, and I fail to see what type of car makes on a school run.
My kids have a very stable grounding not that its anyones business.
JLC2 is obviously a very insecure, jealous person who really needs us to believe he or shes has everything and is wealthy and so much better than us all.
It is a shame he or she probably doesn't and probably isn't.
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