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Principle is backed if not the method...
LILLIPUT First School yesterday spoke out to distance itself from the council spying scandal.
However, it did back Poole council in its attempts to prevent families trying to falsely claim school places.
In a letter sent out to all parents, headteacher Julie Jeans and chair of governors Anne-Maria Lush said: "The headteacher and governing body of Lilliput CE VC First School are not responsible for administering admissions to the school and did not instigate the investigation into this case.
"The local authority has a duty to ensure that school places are offered to those parents who fulfil the requirements of the published criteria for a school."
The statement pointed out that when a complaint is received, the council is "duty bound" to investigate it and said in a small minority of cases it may be necessary to make an application to use the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act (RIPA).
The statement concluded: "The local authority has to ensure that, in the interests of fairness to all parents, those with a genuine claim for a school place at their catchment area school should not be deprived of an offer of a school place by actions of a small minority of parents who are prepared to go to such lengths to secure a place, knowingly using fraudulent or intentionally misleading information."
Reaction from parents at the school was one of shock, though many also backed the council's reasoning, if not its actions.
Katy Waterman, 28, from Lilliput said: "If it was my child losing out on a place to someone not in the catchment, I would be angry, but I don't think the council should spy on people.
"I think it is over the top and there must be other ways to go about it."
Another mother, Nicola Ruggier, 48, said she thought the council's response was "awful" and it should spend the money on making sure schools aren't so over-subscribed.
Anthony Wolstenhulme, 62, whose grandchildren attend the school, said: "It is a very hard school to get into but spying is over the top."
Sue Warwick, 35, from Whitecliff, said: "I think it's important to make sure people are in the right catchment area but this is a bit creepy."
Another parent, who asked not to be named, said: "I know some people use slightly dodgy ways to get their children into the school, so it's only fair the council check. But I think surveillance is a bit too far."
7:00am Saturday 12th April 2008
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CommentPosted by: pooleboy, poole on 8:04am Sat 12 Apr 08
We're talking here about people who lie on schools applications to obtain an advantage to the DISadvantage of proper residents. No one wants to be spied upon but if we don't enforce the rules then there will be even more abuse. The police investigate people suspected of breaking the law. The Council has a duty to investigate (especially after a complaint as in the Jenny Paton case) - how else is it supposed to do this? Ask them?!
We're talking here about people who lie on schools applications to obtain an advantage to the DISadvantage of proper residents. No one wants to be spied upon but if we don't enforce the rules then there will be even more abuse. The police investigate people suspected of breaking the law. The Council has a duty to investigate (especially after a complaint as in the Jenny Paton case) - how else is it supposed to do this? Ask them?!
Posted by: rayc, Poole on 9:24am Sat 12 Apr 08
[quote][bold]pooleboy[/bold] wrote:
We're talking here about people who lie on schools applications to obtain an advantage to the DISadvantage of proper residents. No one wants to be spied upon but if we don't enforce the rules then there will be even more abuse. The police investigate people suspected of breaking the law. The Council has a duty to investigate (especially after a complaint as in the Jenny Paton case) - how else is it supposed to do this? Ask them?! [/quote] "Ask them"? That might be a good idea. Mr Paton did nothing underhand and followed the councils rules as explained to her by them. She did nothing underhand she followed the rules. We are told in today's Britain that if you follow the rules, obey the laws, you have nothing to fear.
pooleboy wrote:
We're talking here about people who lie on schools applications to obtain an advantage to the DISadvantage of proper residents. No one wants to be spied upon but if we don't enforce the rules then there will be even more abuse. The police investigate people suspected of breaking the law. The Council has a duty to investigate (especially after a complaint as in the Jenny Paton case) - how else is it supposed to do this? Ask them?!
"Ask them"? That might be a good idea. Mr Paton did nothing underhand and followed the councils rules as explained to her by them. She did nothing underhand she followed the rules. We are told in today's Britain that if you follow the rules, obey the laws, you have nothing to fear.
Posted by: michael carpenter, BOSCOMBE on 11:20am Sat 12 Apr 08
Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act
DOES THE FIRST THREE LETTERS (RIP) STAND FOR YOUR RIGHTS TO PRIVACY. ITS A SAD DAY WHEN A COUNCIL STOOPS SO LOW AS TO SPY ON PEOPLE.
Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act
DOES THE FIRST THREE LETTERS (RIP) STAND FOR YOUR RIGHTS TO PRIVACY. ITS A SAD DAY WHEN A COUNCIL STOOPS SO LOW AS TO SPY ON PEOPLE.
Posted by: pooleboy, poole on 11:40am Sat 12 Apr 08
Hmm. Of the hundreds if not thousands of children allocated spaces by the Council only 3 were investigated to this degree. 2 were found to be fraudulent and 1 whilst sailing close to the wind was within the rules but arguably morally wrong. We wouldn't need to go to these lengths if all small minority didn't try to cheat their way into schools. Funny how no mention has been made of the "spy hell" inflicted on the two fraudsters. And what about the child in the Lilliput school catchment area denied a place by Ms Paton's trumbone playing. Who speaks for him/her?
Hmm. Of the hundreds if not thousands of children allocated spaces by the Council only 3 were investigated to this degree. 2 were found to be fraudulent and 1 whilst sailing close to the wind was within the rules but arguably morally wrong. We wouldn't need to go to these lengths if all small minority didn't try to cheat their way into schools. Funny how no mention has been made of the "spy hell" inflicted on the two fraudsters. And what about the child in the Lilliput school catchment area denied a place by Ms Paton's trumbone playing. Who speaks for him/her?
Posted by: rayc, Poole on 1:01pm Sat 12 Apr 08
It is reported in today's Telegraph that councils are using this act of Parliament to investigate over a 1,000 cases each month nmainly for minor offences.
It is reported in today's Telegraph that councils are using this act of Parliament to investigate over a 1,000 cases each month nmainly for minor offences.
Posted by: Carl Barron, Dorset on 1:53pm Sat 12 Apr 08
Posted by: rayc, Poole on 1:01pm today
[bold]Quote[/bold] It is reported in today's Telegraph that councils are using this act of Parliament to investigate over a 1,000 cases each month mainly for minor offences.
[bold]Reply[/bold] To use such laws [bold]indiscriminately[/bold] and let the information that such has happened [bold]get into the Public Domain is NOT Acceptable[/bold] at all.
The reputations of many [bold]Councils[/bold] in the UK [bold]absolutely reek of Corruption and abuse of powers.[/bold]
I guessed it was only a matter of time before many such cases of [bold]Spying[/bold] at will would take place because of [bold]Blunkett giving excessive powers[/bold] to Councils.
[bold]The business community need also be made aware[/bold] , that thier e-mails may also be monitored (Electronically) at will, and information as to important Contracts pending may well be divulged. [bold]Illegally I stress[/bold]
Posted by: rayc, Poole on 1:01pm today
Quote It is reported in today's Telegraph that councils are using this act of Parliament to investigate over a 1,000 cases each month mainly for minor offences.
Reply To use such laws
indiscriminately and let the information that such has happened
get into the Public Domain is NOT Acceptable at all.
The reputations of many
Councils in the UK
absolutely reek of Corruption and abuse of powers.
I guessed it was only a matter of time before many such cases of
Spying at will would take place because of
Blunkett giving excessive powers to Councils.
The business community need also be made aware , that thier e-mails may also be monitored (Electronically) at will, and information as to important Contracts pending may well be divulged.
Illegally I stress
Posted by: Tru Belle, purbeck on 4:39pm Sat 12 Apr 08
The parents should have read the book [bold]Pinnochio[/bold] first!!
The parents should have read the book
Pinnochio first!!
Posted by: Christopher, Wallisdown & Winton West on 5:59pm Sat 12 Apr 08
It is still there. This stigma that Mrs Paton did wrong. Yet we have been told there was no case to answer from the Council. She has been called a liar, a depriver of someone elses place. Do we know that another applicant was turned down because there was no places. No we do not.
What we do know is that RIPA was brought in for other reasons by government legislation. In this case, I do not think this surveilance was listed as one of the reasons for RIPA. Mr. Nash and Co decided off their own backs, and if we read the stories correctly we will read that even their own Councillors have to a degre condemned them for using this approach.
Poole Council or those who carried out this task were heavy handed, and over powering in their actions and approach to this matter.
It is still there. This stigma that Mrs Paton did wrong. Yet we have been told there was no case to answer from the Council. She has been called a liar, a depriver of someone elses place. Do we know that another applicant was turned down because there was no places. No we do not.
What we do know is that RIPA was brought in for other reasons by government legislation. In this case, I do not think this surveilance was listed as one of the reasons for RIPA. Mr. Nash and Co decided off their own backs, and if we read the stories correctly we will read that even their own Councillors have to a degre condemned them for using this approach.
Poole Council or those who carried out this task were heavy handed, and over powering in their actions and approach to this matter.
Posted by: laurie marsh, australia on 11:46am Sun 13 Apr 08
LILLIPUT.
READ GULIVERS TRAVELS!
A SMALL PLACE FULL OF SMALL PEOPLE WITH SMALL MINDS!
SO THREE FUTURE (THREE YEAR OLD)TERRORISTS GET INTO YOUR SMALL SCHOOL!
THIS IS A SUFFICIENT REASON TO THROW AWAY FOUR HUNDRED YEARS OF FIGHTING FOR INDIVIDUAL FREEDOMS BY GENERATIONS OF REAL PEOPLE WHO KNEW WHAT IT WAS LIKE TO HAVE SOMEONES HEEL ON THEIR NECKS!
HEY!
THIS IS A SCHOOL!
ANYONE WHO DOESN'T LEARN FROM HISTORY WILL SUFFER THE SAME FATE!
LILLIPUT.
READ GULIVERS TRAVELS!
A SMALL PLACE FULL OF SMALL PEOPLE WITH SMALL MINDS!
SO THREE FUTURE (THREE YEAR OLD)TERRORISTS GET INTO YOUR SMALL SCHOOL!
THIS IS A SUFFICIENT REASON TO THROW AWAY FOUR HUNDRED YEARS OF FIGHTING FOR INDIVIDUAL FREEDOMS BY GENERATIONS OF REAL PEOPLE WHO KNEW WHAT IT WAS LIKE TO HAVE SOMEONES HEEL ON THEIR NECKS!
HEY!
THIS IS A SCHOOL!
ANYONE WHO DOESN'T LEARN FROM HISTORY WILL SUFFER THE SAME FATE!
Posted by: rayc, Poole on 2:15pm Sun 13 Apr 08
This is why you shouldn't give councils power.
http://www.thisislon
don.co.uk/standard/a
rticle-23476572-deta
ils/Motorist%20prove
s%20that%20the%20cam
era%20can%20tell%20a
%20lie/article.do?ex
pand=true#StartComme
nts
This is why you shouldn't give councils power.
http://www.thisislon
don.co.uk/standard/a
rticle-23476572-deta
ils/Motorist%20prove
s%20that%20the%20cam
era%20can%20tell%20a
%20lie/article.do?ex
pand=true#StartComme
nts
Posted by: Roy Stockdill, Watford, Herts on 11:07am Mon 14 Apr 08
Hasn't it occurred to anyone that there is something insidiously nasty and thoroughly unBritish about a state that encourages people to spy on their neighbours and report them to authorities for some offence or other, whether real or imagined? This kind of behaviour only encourages petty-minded people who are envious of their neighbours to dream up some alleged, fictitious crime, which the authorities will then have to waste time and money investigating and leave the victims of these nasty slurs forever under a cloud.
Now, where did I read about this kind of thing happening? Oh, yes, I remember - in George Orwell's 1984.
Hasn't it occurred to anyone that there is something insidiously nasty and thoroughly unBritish about a state that encourages people to spy on their neighbours and report them to authorities for some offence or other, whether real or imagined? This kind of behaviour only encourages petty-minded people who are envious of their neighbours to dream up some alleged, fictitious crime, which the authorities will then have to waste time and money investigating and leave the victims of these nasty slurs forever under a cloud.
Now, where did I read about this kind of thing happening? Oh, yes, I remember - in George Orwell's 1984.
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