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Unpermitted use of this dog to detect cocaine or traces on or around a person is tantamount to an unwarranted search without due cause. Whilst I share the Police's distain for this evil substance, and I have posted on this site before to that effect, I do not support wholesale passive screening of the public to detect it. Tonnes of cocaine enters this country every week smuggled in containers, the dog would be better off deployed at ports where a positive signalling would more than likely indicate a far more sizable consignment than the single grams that it is likely to find in a snooty bar. People that take cocaine are balshy idiots anyway, add alcohol to the mix and they get even worse. Add to this the paranoia and unrest that an unwarranted Police 'search' adds to the mix and you have the ingredients for some very bad atmospheres and violent outbursts, for the sake of a few grams of contraband and the prosecution (if the Police are lucky) of 1 or 2 low-level end users of a product that needs to be prevented from getting onto the streets in the 1st place. Money spent trying to enforce the laws against cocaine trafficking and use should be far more wisely spent considering the unchecked epidemic of it's use, and the shrinking budget to fight it.

The Local Authorities make more money by fining the Single user. The Gov't probably allows so much in to the country to stimulate the fines....

This is a great idea by Le Bateau, lets hope the rest of the bars in the area take note and that the Police give Le Bateau the credit they deserve for taking action against drugs.. At least it means that people can go to a bar and not be harrased by idiots high on cocaine and alcohol a dangerous mix.

[quote][bold]Mike Pickering[/bold] wrote: Unpermitted use of this dog to detect cocaine or traces on or around a person is tantamount to an unwarranted search without due cause. Whilst I share the Police's distain for this evil substance, and I have posted on this site before to that effect, I do not support wholesale passive screening of the public to detect it. Tonnes of cocaine enters this country every week smuggled in containers, the dog would be better off deployed at ports where a positive signalling would more than likely indicate a far more sizable consignment than the single grams that it is likely to find in a snooty bar. People that take cocaine are balshy idiots anyway, add alcohol to the mix and they get even worse. Add to this the paranoia and unrest that an unwarranted Police 'search' adds to the mix and you have the ingredients for some very bad atmospheres and violent outbursts, for the sake of a few grams of contraband and the prosecution (if the Police are lucky) of 1 or 2 low-level end users of a product that needs to be prevented from getting onto the streets in the 1st place. Money spent trying to enforce the laws against cocaine trafficking and use should be far more wisely spent considering the unchecked epidemic of it's use, and the shrinking budget to fight it. [/quote] 2 really good points you have brought up..one, the fact that these peeps get balshy on coke..(i used to drive a cab..and have seen this many times)..and two...having it in the country in the first place. I'm a great believer in "grass roots" and solving problems from there..and not spending money on finding cures once a situation has gotten out of hand.

Why would a restaurant want to detect [bold]trace[/bold] amounts of cocaine on their customers? Do they spend less on alcohol?! Shouldn't this story have "Advertisement Feature" written across the top?

This bar used to be quite a chilled out place to have a drink, the owner has changed its direction towards sterile snooty bar and so I guess the prevalence of cocaine was bound to be next along with all of lairy idiots that it brings, sad but true..

CAN YOU SEND HIM HERE TO BOSCOMBE, BUT IF YOU DO BE READY TO WORK OVERTIME AS YOU WILL CATCH LOADS OF DEALERS AS WELL AS USERS.

[quote][bold]PokesdownMark[/bold] wrote: Why would a restaurant want to detect [bold]trace[/bold] amounts of cocaine on their customers? Do they spend less on alcohol?! Shouldn't this story have "Advertisement Feature" written across the top? [/quote] As you say good advert,but will put people off,as who wants to drink in a place,where you are a suspect,and have a dog sniffing arounde you.Richard should know better ?.

[quote][bold]PETE WOODLEY[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]PokesdownMark[/bold] wrote: Why would a restaurant want to detect [bold]trace[/bold] amounts of cocaine on their customers? Do they spend less on alcohol?! Shouldn't this story have "Advertisement Feature" written across the top? [/quote] As you say good advert,but will put people off,as who wants to drink in a place,where you are a suspect,and have a dog sniffing arounde you.Richard should know better ?.[/quote] 'dog sniffing around you' - sounds like a nite at Elements!

Take a trip to Ham-Worthy park on a nice day with a picnic basket, uncontrolled flea ridden dogs running wild, sniffing is not the word , they pee on your basket and proceed to poo on your blanket + sandwiches we left all of our picnic gear near the waste bin, gathered our children and fled..

Mike Pickering wrote [italic]"Unpermitted use of this dog to detect cocaine or traces on or around a person is tantamount to an unwarranted search without due cause."[/italic] There's nothing illegal in using the dog to sniff out drugs. It's being paid for and used by private clubs, [bold]not[/bold] the police, and they will have conditions of entry, one of them being that patrons consent to being searched if the staff see fit. If you don't want to consent to the search, you don't have to - you'll just be refused entry. Just because someone rings your doorbell doesn't mean you have to let them in your house!

It's a sticky wicket legally, Dave - if you use this dog and it signals that a person has cocaine on them, and you refuse them entry based upon that (you could of course refuse them entry based on anything you so chose - I worked in clubs and bars for over 10years), then you have, do you not - a more than reasonable suspicion that a serious crime is being committed (their posession of drugs), and you are legally bound to call the police. Failure to do so makes you complicit in the crime. The fact that so many of the potential patrons will have cocaine on them is a failure to police/monitor/inter cept our ports of entry. We pay an exhorbitant amount of taxes and have surrendered more than an acceptable amount of our civil liberties in the name of the 'war on drugs', and yet it is lost to such a degree that we are being searched just to go into a pub ?!? This IS lunacy, and whilst there may be nothing in the statutes to say that an unwarranted search is illegal, it is highly unethical. Door staff have no prior reason to suspect anyone entering of posessing cocaine (or stolen documents, or counterfeit money, or tax evasion - or any number of offences of a similar importance), yet the dog IS used to search them - something that the law allows Police to do only AFTER a probable cause has been established. The dog is used AS the instrument of search, NOT as a means of indicating probable cause.. "Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." Benjamin Franklin.

I don't think the story here is the dog being used on a restaurant. I'm really curious to know more about the dog. Training these animals is specialised and I thought only the public sector security agencies did it. I'm kinda guessing but would imagine real cocaine is used in the training? So is this a public sector trained dog that went private? if so, why? Or are private sector kennels training drug sniffing dogs? Is this the start of a trend or just a forward looking, innovative company testing the market? What if the dogs are moved completely into the public sector and a drug lord buys them all?! ok that probably unlikely. But an interesting thought.

I meant... moved completely into the [italic]private[/italic] sector getting my privates and publics confused... in public!

Passive drugs dogs are not new to Bournemouth & Boscombe. About 6 or 7 years ago in a number of joint operations involving Dorset Police and British Transport Police targeting people carrying drugs into the town, BTP Passive Drugs dogs(based in London) were used with some success. I recall that Dorset Police were so impressed with how effective these dogs were they went on to train their own, the training being very specialised and carried out Home Office authorised establishments. I would guess that a retired Dorset Police Officer would have the knowledge, experience & connections to have his dogs trained at the same place.

Further - on the legal point raised above. The Dog does not search anyone, any more than a metal detecting arch searches anyone. What it does is to INDICATE to the handler that something is present and that indication may give the handler grounds to carry out a search.

The dog is an invasion of privacy simply because it reveals information that would otherwise only be obtained about a person via a physical search. The Police and agencies would have you believe that the dogs are completely accurate, whereas infact they have a nearly 1/4 false positive signalling rate. There are also many reasons for which someone might legitimately not want to be sniffed by a dog. This is all rather moot however, as this is a private operation, which actually bodes very poorly for the rest of our lives were this 'experiment' be deemed a success, and maybe stipulated as a licensing condition for any regulated business open to the public... Interestingly enough, only drug possession is an offence - drug use remains legal, so any person legitmately under the influence of drugs, would be signalled by the dog, and refused entry - and this has no basis in law.

Hi Ive read these posts with great interest. As a Private Drugs Dog Handler myself doesn't surprise me to read these opinions, howether i would say that you are focusing on the negatives not the positives of having this dog there. 1. The dog is actually 90 -95% accurate in detecting a scent. 2. The management can turn you away for any reason they desire, let it be for the right ones from now on. 3. The dog is there primarilly as a deterent, people see the dog and are less likely to try to bring drugs into the Bar. 4.If someone has used a substance such as Cocain, you all seem to agree that they act like idiots. So why should the majority of law abiding people have to put up with them in the same place as them. 5. The dogs are trained using scents manafactured and home office approved this way you stop the dog looking for houshold substances that the dealers cut the coke with. Also this helps to allow the dog to be more accurate. 6. The dog does not run around jumping up and sticking his nose into people, he uses the wind to scent and screen around people. 7. and finally, this isn't a new idea, drugs dogs are already being implamented with other private companies all over the UK. In fact Dorset is one of the last areas yet to be affected and benefit from these great dogs. And lastly i would just like to add that drugs dogs are very highly trained, they take lots of constant re training and practice to get to the standard required by there handlers. If youve got nothing to hide then you shouldn't have anything bad to say. I agree with what you right about the ports and the import. But we cant get involved in that side of things thats down to the governement and the Police. What we can do is help the public to have a safe and trouble free experience whilst they are out trying to enjoy themselves. Thanks

Hi Ive read these posts with great interest. As a Private Drugs Dog Handler myself doesn't surprise me to read these opinions, howether i would say that you are focusing on the negatives not the positives of having this dog there. 1. The dog is actually 90 -95% accurate in detecting a scent. 2. The management can turn you away for any reason they desire, let it be for the right ones from now on. 3. The dog is there primarilly as a deterent, people see the dog and are less likely to try to bring drugs into the Bar. 4.If someone has used a substance such as Cocain, you all seem to agree that they act like idiots. So why should the majority of law abiding people have to put up with them in the same place as them. 5. The dogs are trained using scents manafactured and home office approved this way you stop the dog looking for houshold substances that the dealers cut the coke with. Also this helps to allow the dog to be more accurate. 6. The dog does not run around jumping up and sticking his nose into people, he uses the wind to scent and screen around people. 7. and finally, this isn't a new idea, drugs dogs are already being implamented with other private companies all over the UK. In fact Dorset is one of the last areas yet to be affected and benefit from these great dogs. And lastly i would just like to add that drugs dogs are very highly trained, they take lots of constant re training and practice to get to the standard required by there handlers. If youve got nothing to hide then you shouldn't have anything bad to say. I agree with what you right about the ports and the import. But we cant get involved in that side of things thats down to the governement and the Police. What we can do is help the public to have a safe and trouble free experience whilst they are out trying to enjoy themselves. Thanks

great info adam.. thx for passing it on

It's yet another version of the 'if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear' mentality that is rolled out by invasive regimes and governments the world over as an excuse to infringe on the privacy rights of the individual. Why is the issue of controlled drugs treated in this unique way when there are many aspects of the law that receive nowhere near as much vigourous and private 'enforcement' ? Tax evasion, identity theft, car theft, violence against the person, stolen goods etc - if a private company wished to use the methods to detect these offences as a condition of entering a contract to supply their goods or services, there would be moral outrage. Pulling up on a garage forecourt to fill up with petrol, and a bunch of goons surround you and start poking around looking for who knows what.. If you don't agree to the search, you can't buy the petrol. Fingerprint technology to use your credit/debit card and eventually just to use cash.. This will not end - this country has gone bonkers, little by little 'authority' has encroached on our rights to privacy and anyone who does not surrender these rights is regarded as guilty of the offence for which they are accused.. It is illegal for the Police to use the dogs in a situation where they funnel people into their paths so the dog can sniff the air around them, as at this point it becomes an invasive search and no convictions can be carried out..however this principal of law, proscribed by the Law Lords to offer the public at least some rights to their privacy will for sure, be entirely ignored by the private firm operating this dog, to ensure maximum effectiveness and to earn it's money. Having dogs niffing 'the air' as people walk past is NO substitute for effective and informed management of a premises. Security staff and management should already be aware of who the undesirables are, and they should not be admitted. Having the dog on the door is a drastic measure that gives the impression that the place is out of control, and I for one would not wish to go there. If only for the reason that seeing the dog means the place will be full of beaked up scoundrels and plastic women. Cocaine is god's way of telling you you have too much money, but sniffing everyone for it just to buy a pint is crass and tasteless, and if I have to explain why then you won't be any the wiser when I do tell you.

Adam and others, I have been reading these posts with a great deal of interest.I have been working and training drug dogs for scanning people and searching buildings for over 12 years. (I also sell dogs to the Police and other security companies)I agree with what has been written regarding keeping these people out of venues enabling the general public to enjoy a night out in a safe environment. People from all walks of life take drugs its not confined to one class, in the past one of my dogs indicated on a tax inspector, fireman and a milkman all in one night. I would like to pick up on a few points from Adam, if you are working the dog on an entrance to a building you have to take into account several important factors, wind strength and direction, heat and people eating food in the queque. The actual success rate is approx 42-47% for passive dogs, 90-95% pro active dogs. The management must have signs in place to inform the public that the dog is present should anyone be frightened of dogs and to avoid that person possibly collapsing, which I have seen several times. The dog is there as a deterrent and if people walk out the queque you've fulfilled your contract. Some dogs are trained on psuedo drugs which are made to replicate the scent of a live drug, there is nothing wrong with this as long as they are proofed on live drugs to confirm that the psuedo has worked. Some dogs are trained to work on moving queques some dogs on static lines, it is not the easiest job in the world it is mentally draining. What do you say to the people when the dog has indicated? You must have a set speech in your head should they start asking questions. Do you search the person yourself or do the door supervisors carry out the search. What do the door supervisors say when they have to search the individual and find drugs? These dogs are an excellent deterrent and we have a lot of success with them, I wish you all the best in your ventures.

It's just a ridiculous and heavy-handed bandage measure. Richard and Adam, I applaud your contribution to society in your training and use of these dogs - there are many instances every day where dog detection prevents contraband from reaching the streets and doubtless you've prevented a great deal of harm in your line of work, but when the problem is so bad in an establishment that you need to emulate a Customs control point just to sit down and have a beer then it's too late for your establishment and you need to close it up and reopen as something else with different customers. If there really is so much cocaine in this place that the owners have decided they need a dog, then as a citizen I just about demand that the Police in our collective employ visit that place, detect and arrest some of the guilty parties then review the license. For the management to say that they just don't know who might be carrying cocaine - it could be anyone - is an admission that they really don't have a clue what they're doing and thereby present a danger to society by continuing to blindly operate a premises where this goes on. Wise up or shut down.

Hi Mike I just wanted to Add that ive been in contact with the people offering this service and im now in a position to comment with authority. You seem to be saying that the bar in question should close its doors and re - open as something new with a different client base, thats a good comment if we were talking about just 1 bar using this service. Unfortunately its not 1 bar who deems this a valuable asset. Its many, and i would not be surprised if they were not working at every bar and Club in Bournemouth and Poole, within the next year. So I take it you think every bar and club should shut down?. Secondly you seem to think Cocain affects only the wealthy and the plastic people of this world, well heres news for you it doesnt it affects and controls people from every walk of life rich and poor, and everyone in between. Now lastly i just want to tell you a fact. As a licenced doorman, i can not let you into the premisis i work at for any reason i wish, I might not like your shoes, or your shirt, or even your hair style. Yes i might rub you up the wrong way but who cares. If the dog wants to tell me youve come in contact with drugs thats great it means i get to stop a drug user from entering and causing trouble. Thats good enough for me. And i do sujest you look up your information because Police dogs can be used to scent people directly outside while they are lined up. I know because ive worked with enough. And just to add, all the premisis are signed that passive dogs are in use, and if you don't like it you dont have to come in do you.....

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