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ARE THEY WORTH £100,000?
TOP council bosses have been challenged to defend their wages as the contents of their pay packets are made public.
Following the furore over councillors' and MPs' allowances, the spotlight has fallen council chief executives.
Figures compiled by the TaxPayers' Alliance show the wages and benefits of eight local council officers - four chief executives, a deputy chief executive and three directors - add up to almost £1million a year.
David Jenkins, chief executive of Dorset County Council, is the highest paid council officer in the county, earning £158,096 in 2006/07.
His deputy, Elaine Taylor, earned £119,773, director Steve Pitt £110,976, director Miles Butler £114,419 and director Stephen Prewitt £110,749.
At Bournemouth, Poole and New Forest councils, only the chief executives earn more than £100,000 a year. Bournemouth's chief executive, Pam Donnellan, saw her salary rise by 11.7 per cent to £121,205 in 2006/07 and Poole's chief executive, John McBride, enjoyed an increase of 5.3 per cent to £112,242.
The only chief executive not to receive an above-inflation pay rise was Dave Yates, the head of New Forest council, whose salary dropped by 8.8 per cent to £115,487.
No one at Christchurch, East Dorset, North Dorset or Purbeck councils earned £100,000 in 2006/07.
David Clutterbuck, chair of East Cliff and Town Centre Residents'association and a former Bournemouth councillor, said: "You have to remember it's not just high salaries we're talking about but pensions as well. When I was on the council, we often put taxpayers' money into the pension fund to top it up. A colossal amount of council tax is spent on salaries and pensions."
Ken Pottle, chairman of Southern Poole Chairmen's Liaison Group, said: "Officers' pay should reflect their sucess in the job."
Angus Campbell, leader of Dorset County Council, said a management restructure in 2006/07 reduced the number of bosses and saved £500,000 a year. He said salaries were decided by members, looking at national guidance and local salaries. and Dorset's chief executive salary was below the average paid by other county councils.
He said: "We pay the necessary level to attract and retain suitable candidates in a very competitive market.
Colin Hague, head of personnel and training at the Poole council, said: "The people who earn these salaries are responsible for ensuring millions of pounds of taxpayers' money is spent wisely."
6:39am Friday 28th March 2008
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CommentPosted by: HAL101, Bournemouth on 7:36am Fri 28 Mar 08
Massive pay levels of the council staff -
As it appears that they are in the position to [bold]decide their own pay levels[/bold] , and take what tax they want, I am very surprised that they have shown such restraint.
We peasants should be humble and grateful that our [bold]council Barons[/bold] have not awarded themselves far greater amounts such as millions, and tripled or quadrupled the council tax.
The question I ask myself in the mirror is, how did such a [bold]rotten system[/bold] of tyranny evolve originally and why is this rotten council system of social control not evolving towards a democratic system ? Clearly [bold]the elected councillors are not in control[/bold] or the pay of the chief executive Barons and the council tax would be very much lower.
Oh, how I long for that [bold]wonderful day[/bold] when we peasants rise in our millions and baying with fury storm the council office castles to confront the chief executive Barons and their body guards and remove them in a blood bath - Oh [bold]joyful day[/bold] of freedommmmmmm !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Massive pay levels of the council staff -
As it appears that they are in the position to
decide their own pay levels , and take what tax they want, I am very surprised that they have shown such restraint.
We peasants should be humble and grateful that our
council Barons have not awarded themselves far greater amounts such as millions, and tripled or quadrupled the council tax.
The question I ask myself in the mirror is, how did such a
rotten system of tyranny evolve originally and why is this rotten council system of social control not evolving towards a democratic system ? Clearly
the elected councillors are not in control or the pay of the chief executive Barons and the council tax would be very much lower.
Oh, how I long for that
wonderful day when we peasants rise in our millions and baying with fury storm the council office castles to confront the chief executive Barons and their body guards and remove them in a blood bath - Oh
joyful day of freedommmmmmm !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: anna, Poole on 8:08am Fri 28 Mar 08
Would also be interesting to see the 'golden handshakes' former Chief exec's and heads of departments have pocketed when leaving for one reason (or another).
Would also be interesting to see the 'golden handshakes' former Chief exec's and heads of departments have pocketed when leaving for one reason (or another).
Posted by: LauraM, Bournemouth on 8:48am Fri 28 Mar 08
Ever heard of such a thing called 'market forces', or supply & demand? These people manage millions of pounds and what they do affects each of us every day - quite a responsibiltiy I'd say, and one that would be much more highly rewarded in the private sector. Yes, it's alot of money, I'm not disputing that, but let's take a look at the job they actually have to do before all jumping on the bandwagon. Got to deal with all the councellors every day I expect for a start. Don't think I'd fancy that, even for £100k+.
Ever heard of such a thing called 'market forces', or supply & demand? These people manage millions of pounds and what they do affects each of us every day - quite a responsibiltiy I'd say, and one that would be much more highly rewarded in the private sector. Yes, it's alot of money, I'm not disputing that, but let's take a look at the job they actually have to do before all jumping on the bandwagon. Got to deal with all the councellors every day I expect for a start. Don't think I'd fancy that, even for £100k+.
Posted by: Ashley, Verwood on 8:56am Fri 28 Mar 08
Sounds very reasonable to me, if actually a bit on the cheap side.
You compare these salaries with relevent positions in the public or private industriues and it is pretty good value for money.
To become a chief exec in the first place takes lots of years of hard work (and also being in with the right people I'm afraid) but it is not given on a plate.
So the echo and a few other posters are implying they think it is too much - well what figures do you think is suitable then?
Sounds very reasonable to me, if actually a bit on the cheap side.
You compare these salaries with relevent positions in the public or private industriues and it is pretty good value for money.
To become a chief exec in the first place takes lots of years of hard work (and also being in with the right people I'm afraid) but it is not given on a plate.
So the echo and a few other posters are implying they think it is too much - well what figures do you think is suitable then?
Posted by: fedupwithjobsworths, Moordown on 9:16am Fri 28 Mar 08
These people like to claim that their wages need to be comparable to those in the private sector but this comparison is a convenient oversimplification. A CEO in a private company employing 4,500 staff would have many more onerous tasks a Local Government “equivalent”:
LG Wage scales are set nationally – it’s just a matter of putting up Council Tax
LG Pension Deficits are not a problem – put up Council Tax
LG Staffing Levels – also no problem, get Council Officers to “Gold Plate” Government directives, employ as many extra people as they like, the Council Taxpayer will be forced to cough up the dough.
A private company has to innovate cost effective products and compete effectively or go bust, Local Authorities have a captive customer base who have no choice - so can be milked dry.
The result of this is clear for all to see, year on year above inflation Council Tax rises, year on year increases in staffing levels, year on year cuts in front line services and overpaid un-elected un-accountable Council Officers in jobs for life.
The CEO of a Council has at best 25% only of the responsibilities of a private sector counterpart – a wage of £40K should be more than adequate!
These people like to claim that their wages need to be comparable to those in the private sector but this comparison is a convenient oversimplification. A CEO in a private company employing 4,500 staff would have many more onerous tasks a Local Government “equivalent”:
LG Wage scales are set nationally – it’s just a matter of putting up Council Tax
LG Pension Deficits are not a problem – put up Council Tax
LG Staffing Levels – also no problem, get Council Officers to “Gold Plate” Government directives, employ as many extra people as they like, the Council Taxpayer will be forced to cough up the dough.
A private company has to innovate cost effective products and compete effectively or go bust, Local Authorities have a captive customer base who have no choice - so can be milked dry.
The result of this is clear for all to see, year on year above inflation Council Tax rises, year on year increases in staffing levels, year on year cuts in front line services and overpaid un-elected un-accountable Council Officers in jobs for life.
The CEO of a Council has at best 25% only of the responsibilities of a private sector counterpart – a wage of £40K should be more than adequate!
Posted by: Erica Monk, Australia on 9:26am Fri 28 Mar 08
How about bringing in a wage system where one gets paid by the amount of work done. I know most (I didn't say all) council workers are a pack of bludgers. Get paid heaps for doing nothing or as little as possible.
How about bringing in a wage system where one gets paid by the amount of work done. I know most (I didn't say all) council workers are a pack of bludgers. Get paid heaps for doing nothing or as little as possible.
Posted by: Richard, Bournemouth on 9:43am Fri 28 Mar 08
fedupwithjobsworths
Go and offer yourself as Chief Exec to Bmth Council for £40k pa and let's see how you get on.
fedupwithjobsworths
Go and offer yourself as Chief Exec to Bmth Council for £40k pa and let's see how you get on.
Posted by: fedupwithjobsworths, Moordown on 10:24am Fri 28 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Richard[/bold] wrote:
fedupwithjobsworths Go and offer yourself as Chief Exec to Bmth Council for £40k pa and let's see how you get on. [/quote] It wouldn’t be challenging enough :-)
Richard wrote:
fedupwithjobsworths Go and offer yourself as Chief Exec to Bmth Council for £40k pa and let's see how you get on.
It wouldn’t be challenging enough :-)
Posted by: John, Poole on 11:16am Fri 28 Mar 08
[quote][bold]fedupwithjobsworths[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Richard[/bold] wrote: fedupwithjobsworths Go and offer yourself as Chief Exec to Bmth Council for £40k pa and let's see how you get on. [/quote] It wouldn’t be challenging enough :-)[/quote] Well, if you are like the Council Members, you could do the Chief Exec's job and still keep up your main job as commentator on this site (which is, albeit, sadly not paid for at all, never mind at the rate of an Echo Reporter!)
fedupwithjobsworths wrote:
Richard wrote: fedupwithjobsworths Go and offer yourself as Chief Exec to Bmth Council for £40k pa and let's see how you get on.
It wouldn’t be challenging enough :-)
Well, if you are like the Council Members, you could do the Chief Exec's job and still keep up your main job as commentator on this site (which is, albeit, sadly not paid for at all, never mind at the rate of an Echo Reporter!)
Posted by: derek, dorset on 11:52am Fri 28 Mar 08
The people in charge of local gvmt cannot be compared to people who run real compaines .
They pay what they want , they see the public as a big wallet to be emptied .
If they where in the real world then they would be accountable and sackable .
And of course , people in the real world have a choice , if they see bad service they move to another supplier.
The people in charge of local gvmt cannot be compared to people who run real compaines .
They pay what they want , they see the public as a big wallet to be emptied .
If they where in the real world then they would be accountable and sackable .
And of course , people in the real world have a choice , if they see bad service they move to another supplier.
Posted by: HAL101, Bournemouth on 12:00pm Fri 28 Mar 08
[quote][bold]LauraM[/bold] wrote:
Ever heard of such a thing called 'market forces', or supply & demand? These people manage millions of pounds and what they do affects each of us every day - quite a responsibiltiy I'd say, and one that would be much more highly rewarded in the private sector. Yes, it's alot of money, I'm not disputing that, but let's take a look at the job they actually have to do before all jumping on the bandwagon. Got to deal with all the councellors every day I expect for a start. Don't think I'd fancy that, even for £100k+.[/quote] Market forces and the State councils
You have raised a pertinent point. In the open market the council would have to sell it's services. With the police force and state schools administer by the central government (as they are not part of the free market) this would not leave much.
And of course [bold]in the open market people do not have to buy[/bold] . How many people would pay the council tax on a voluntary basis ? On a free market basis [bold]the council would go bankrupt overnight[/bold] . So a comparison with the free market is not a practical one.
The present system is a [bold]state administration system[/bold] employing [bold]administrative clerks[/bold] . Somehow, due to an oversight of our state government, both the titles and pay of the council clerks are decided by themselves ( I have been given to understand ).
For example the title 'chief executive' should be [bold]'chief clerk'[/bold] . Just what does this position execute ? I would have thought that a direct comparison with say a bank would indicate a pay of £30K to £35K, at the most, would be sensible. And a sensible wage for empowered democrat Councillors, who are suppose to execute the government instructions, is long overdue.
It appears to me that the council system is [bold]a gravy train[/bold] that is fully support by the law and the courts. If you do not [bold]hand your money over[/bold] to these people you will be stripped of your money and liberty - by being forced into a criminal prison.
It is time [bold]this undemocratic system[/bold] was democratised and reorganised, as many people and the Liberal Party strongly believe.
LauraM wrote:
Ever heard of such a thing called 'market forces', or supply & demand? These people manage millions of pounds and what they do affects each of us every day - quite a responsibiltiy I'd say, and one that would be much more highly rewarded in the private sector. Yes, it's alot of money, I'm not disputing that, but let's take a look at the job they actually have to do before all jumping on the bandwagon. Got to deal with all the councellors every day I expect for a start. Don't think I'd fancy that, even for £100k+.
Market forces and the State councils
You have raised a pertinent point. In the open market the council would have to sell it's services. With the police force and state schools administer by the central government (as they are not part of the free market) this would not leave much.
And of course
in the open market people do not have to buy . How many people would pay the council tax on a voluntary basis ? On a free market basis
the council would go bankrupt overnight . So a comparison with the free market is not a practical one.
The present system is a
state administration system employing
administrative clerks . Somehow, due to an oversight of our state government, both the titles and pay of the council clerks are decided by themselves ( I have been given to understand ).
For example the title 'chief executive' should be
'chief clerk' . Just what does this position execute ? I would have thought that a direct comparison with say a bank would indicate a pay of £30K to £35K, at the most, would be sensible. And a sensible wage for empowered democrat Councillors, who are suppose to execute the government instructions, is long overdue.
It appears to me that the council system is
a gravy train that is fully support by the law and the courts. If you do not
hand your money over to these people you will be stripped of your money and liberty - by being forced into a criminal prison.
It is time
this undemocratic system was democratised and reorganised, as many people and the Liberal Party strongly believe.
Posted by: HAL101, Bournemouth on 12:04pm Fri 28 Mar 08
Posted by: LauraM, Bournemouth on 8:48am today
[quote]Ever heard of such a thing called 'market forces', or supply & demand? These people manage millions of pounds and what they do affects each of us every day[/quote]
Market forces and the State councils
You have raised a pertinent point. In the open market the council would have to sell it's services. With the police force and state schools administer by the central government (as they are not part of the free market) this would not leave much.
And of course in the open market people do not have to buy. How many people would pay the council tax on a voluntary basis ? On a free market basis the council would go bankrupt overnight. So a comparison with the free market is not a practical one.
The present system is a state administration system employing administrative clerks. Somehow, due to an oversight of our state government, both the titles and pay of the council clerks are decided by themselves ( I have been given to understand ).
For example the title 'chief executive' should be 'chief clerk'. Just what does this position execute ? I would have thought that a direct comparison with say a bank would indicate a pay of £30K to £35K, at the most, would be sensible. And a sensible wage for empowered democrat Councillors, who are suppose to execute the government instructions, is long overdue.
It appears to me that the council system is a gravy train that is fully support by the law and the courts. If you do not hand your money over to these people you will be stripped of your money and liberty - by being forced into a criminal prison.
It is time this undemocratic system was democratised and reorganised, as many people and the Liberal Party strongly believe.
Posted by: LauraM, Bournemouth on 8:48am today
Ever heard of such a thing called 'market forces', or supply & demand? These people manage millions of pounds and what they do affects each of us every day
Market forces and the State councils
You have raised a pertinent point. In the open market the council would have to sell it's services. With the police force and state schools administer by the central government (as they are not part of the free market) this would not leave much.
And of course in the open market people do not have to buy. How many people would pay the council tax on a voluntary basis ? On a free market basis the council would go bankrupt overnight. So a comparison with the free market is not a practical one.
The present system is a state administration system employing administrative clerks. Somehow, due to an oversight of our state government, both the titles and pay of the council clerks are decided by themselves ( I have been given to understand ).
For example the title 'chief executive' should be 'chief clerk'. Just what does this position execute ? I would have thought that a direct comparison with say a bank would indicate a pay of £30K to £35K, at the most, would be sensible. And a sensible wage for empowered democrat Councillors, who are suppose to execute the government instructions, is long overdue.
It appears to me that the council system is a gravy train that is fully support by the law and the courts. If you do not hand your money over to these people you will be stripped of your money and liberty - by being forced into a criminal prison.
It is time this undemocratic system was democratised and reorganised, as many people and the Liberal Party strongly believe.
Posted by: HAL101, Bournemouth on 12:05pm Fri 28 Mar 08
Sorry for the double post. The first one did not seem to go in, so I did it again.
Sorry for the double post. The first one did not seem to go in, so I did it again.
Posted by: omegaman, Bournemouth on 12:33pm Fri 28 Mar 08
[quote][bold]derek[/bold] wrote:
The people in charge of local gvmt cannot be compared to people who run real compaines . They pay what they want , they see the public as a big wallet to be emptied . If they where in the real world then they would be accountable and sackable . And of course , people in the real world have a choice , if they see bad service they move to another supplier.[/quote] Rubbish - Pay scales for Chief Executives are set nationally according to the size of the Council. They cannot just pay themselves what they want. As for private companies there are not many in the area that have a turnover of newarly half billion ponnds and get paid less than their local government equivalents.Local government officers are sackable and accountantable. I can only think you are just jealous that some people can earn and deserve a higher wage packet than yourself.
derek wrote:
The people in charge of local gvmt cannot be compared to people who run real compaines . They pay what they want , they see the public as a big wallet to be emptied . If they where in the real world then they would be accountable and sackable . And of course , people in the real world have a choice , if they see bad service they move to another supplier.
Rubbish - Pay scales for Chief Executives are set nationally according to the size of the Council. They cannot just pay themselves what they want. As for private companies there are not many in the area that have a turnover of newarly half billion ponnds and get paid less than their local government equivalents.Local government officers are sackable and accountantable. I can only think you are just jealous that some people can earn and deserve a higher wage packet than yourself.
Posted by: HAL101, Bournemouth on 12:39pm Fri 28 Mar 08
Posted by: omegaman, Bournemouth on 12:33pm today
[quote]Pay scales for Chief Executives are set nationally according to the size of the Council.[/quote]
So [bold]who does set the council's wages[/bold] . Do you know ?
Councils do not have a 'turn over' as private companies do. They just administer tax money. Comparing commercial companies with state tax systems is not practical.
Posted by: omegaman, Bournemouth on 12:33pm today
Pay scales for Chief Executives are set nationally according to the size of the Council.
So
who does set the council's wages . Do you know ?
Councils do not have a 'turn over' as private companies do. They just administer tax money. Comparing commercial companies with state tax systems is not practical.
Posted by: JLC, here on 12:45pm Fri 28 Mar 08
£35,000 for being the chief exec of the council. Are you having a laugh? You coukd earn more than that in McDonalds.
Why is it that people on low incomes are always the ones to whinge when someone does okay for themselves. If you want to earn decent money then work for it, like the Chief Exec of the council will have. They could no doubt earn twice that in private industry!
We live in a capitalist society. Deal with it or move to China!
£35,000 for being the chief exec of the council. Are you having a laugh? You coukd earn more than that in McDonalds.
Why is it that people on low incomes are always the ones to whinge when someone does okay for themselves. If you want to earn decent money then work for it, like the Chief Exec of the council will have. They could no doubt earn twice that in private industry!
We live in a capitalist society. Deal with it or move to China!
Posted by: Carl Barron, Dorset on 12:51pm Fri 28 Mar 08
Well said HAL101.
So they think that they are worth all this money considering the following:
Bth Councillor's have overtime periodically wrecked the potential of good investment, [bold]the following comes to mind:[/bold]
1 The Echo stated many years ago that investors wanted to revamp the Pier and turn it into a Giant Marina come Casino with Bars and restaurants. Councillor's rejected the plan. Many passing vessels would have used this and future investments from wealthy entrepreneurs could have transpired as they would have seen Bth as a go a head modern thinking progressive town unlike it is today [bold]a miss mash of rubbish ideas.[/bold]
2 Councillor's should have let private enterprise update modernise the 'Pier Approach Baths' to International standards. The ice rink could also have been incorporated into this venture much revenue could have been gained from this. [bold]Unlike the eyesore IMAX Councillor's agreed to[/bold] .
Bournemouth has tremendous potential in the right hands.
[bold]Copy paste[/bold] link below into browser, to see the some of the good sides to Bournemouth.
http://dorsetvisualg
uide.co.uk/Bournemou
th_Picture_Gallery.h
tm
Well said HAL101.
So they think that they are worth all this money considering the following:
Bth Councillor's have overtime periodically wrecked the potential of good investment,
the following comes to mind:
1 The Echo stated many years ago that investors wanted to revamp the Pier and turn it into a Giant Marina come Casino with Bars and restaurants. Councillor's rejected the plan. Many passing vessels would have used this and future investments from wealthy entrepreneurs could have transpired as they would have seen Bth as a go a head modern thinking progressive town unlike it is today
a miss mash of rubbish ideas.
2 Councillor's should have let private enterprise update modernise the 'Pier Approach Baths' to International standards. The ice rink could also have been incorporated into this venture much revenue could have been gained from this.
Unlike the eyesore IMAX Councillor's agreed to .
Bournemouth has tremendous potential in the right hands.
Copy paste link below into browser, to see the some of the good sides to Bournemouth.
http://dorsetvisualg
uide.co.uk/Bournemou
th_Picture_Gallery.h
tm
Posted by: JLC, here on 1:01pm Fri 28 Mar 08
A tramp alseep on a bench is a good side of Bournemouth?
A tramp alseep on a bench is a good side of Bournemouth?
Posted by: snoff, Poole on 1:05pm Fri 28 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Erica Monk[/bold] wrote:
How about bringing in a wage system where one gets paid by the amount of work done. I know most (I didn't say all) council workers are a pack of bludgers. Get paid heaps for doing nothing or as little as possible. [/quote] Should be like it is in Oz where the only perks a council employee gets is to take a sheep / blue Heeler home for the nite and a can of the good ol amber nectar for their labour! That would show them eh Erica!!!!!
Erica Monk wrote:
How about bringing in a wage system where one gets paid by the amount of work done. I know most (I didn't say all) council workers are a pack of bludgers. Get paid heaps for doing nothing or as little as possible.
Should be like it is in Oz where the only perks a council employee gets is to take a sheep / blue Heeler home for the nite and a can of the good ol amber nectar for their labour! That would show them eh Erica!!!!!
Posted by: Carrie, Poole on 1:06pm Fri 28 Mar 08
The echo is happy to carry the story - but I wonder if it would be as quick to tell us that their top people earn?
The echo is happy to carry the story - but I wonder if it would be as quick to tell us that their top people earn?
Posted by: Carrie, Poole on 1:08pm Fri 28 Mar 08
Sorry should have said
The echo is happy to carry the story - but I wonder if it would be as quick to tell us the salaries that their top people earn?
Sorry should have said
The echo is happy to carry the story - but I wonder if it would be as quick to tell us the salaries that their top people earn?
Posted by: Mark, Bournemouth on 1:11pm Fri 28 Mar 08
There is not the level of accountability in the public sector as there is in the private one. Failure is so often rewarded, doubtless as part of a deal to whitewash the incompetence and protect others.
If a council Chief Exec/Officer fouls up it is not their home on the line or their future at stake, so no these wage levels are far too high.
There is not the level of accountability in the public sector as there is in the private one. Failure is so often rewarded, doubtless as part of a deal to whitewash the incompetence and protect others.
If a council Chief Exec/Officer fouls up it is not their home on the line or their future at stake, so no these wage levels are far too high.
Posted by: snoff, Poole on 1:13pm Fri 28 Mar 08
[quote][bold]fedupwithjobsworths[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Richard[/bold] wrote: fedupwithjobsworths Go and offer yourself as Chief Exec to Bmth Council for £40k pa and let's see how you get on. [/quote] It wouldn’t be challenging enough :-)[/quote] I think your far too challenged as it is - rolling around in your own waste and howling wildly :)
fedupwithjobsworths wrote:
Richard wrote: fedupwithjobsworths Go and offer yourself as Chief Exec to Bmth Council for £40k pa and let's see how you get on.
It wouldn’t be challenging enough :-)
I think your far too challenged as it is - rolling around in your own waste and howling wildly :)
Posted by: fedupwithjobsworths, Moordown on 1:15pm Fri 28 Mar 08
[quote][bold]omegaman[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]derek[/bold] wrote: The people in charge of local gvmt cannot be compared to people who run real compaines . They pay what they want , they see the public as a big wallet to be emptied . If they where in the real world then they would be accountable and sackable . And of course , people in the real world have a choice , if they see bad service they move to another supplier.[/quote] Rubbish - Pay scales for Chief Executives are set nationally according to the size of the Council. They cannot just pay themselves what they want. As for private companies there are not many in the area that have a turnover of newarly half billion ponnds and get paid less than their local government equivalents.Local government officers are sackable and accountantable. I can only think you are just jealous that some people can earn and deserve a higher wage packet than yourself.[/quote] There is a big difference between running a company, which generates a turnover of £0.5 billion and one, which just spends this amount of money. A Chief Clerk is all that is needed to head up a Council.
omegaman wrote:
derek wrote: The people in charge of local gvmt cannot be compared to people who run real compaines . They pay what they want , they see the public as a big wallet to be emptied . If they where in the real world then they would be accountable and sackable . And of course , people in the real world have a choice , if they see bad service they move to another supplier.
Rubbish - Pay scales for Chief Executives are set nationally according to the size of the Council. They cannot just pay themselves what they want. As for private companies there are not many in the area that have a turnover of newarly half billion ponnds and get paid less than their local government equivalents.Local government officers are sackable and accountantable. I can only think you are just jealous that some people can earn and deserve a higher wage packet than yourself.
There is a big difference between running a company, which generates a turnover of £0.5 billion and one, which just spends this amount of money. A Chief Clerk is all that is needed to head up a Council.
Posted by: fedupwithjobsworths, Moordown on 1:20pm Fri 28 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Carrie[/bold] wrote:
Sorry should have said The echo is happy to carry the story - but I wonder if it would be as quick to tell us the salaries that their top people earn?[/quote] The difference is that you don't need to buy the Echo if you don't want to. Nobody is forced to contribute to their salaries.
Carrie wrote:
Sorry should have said The echo is happy to carry the story - but I wonder if it would be as quick to tell us the salaries that their top people earn?
The difference is that you don't need to buy the Echo if you don't want to. Nobody is forced to contribute to their salaries.
Posted by: Carl Barron, Dorset on 1:30pm Fri 28 Mar 08
Posted by: JLC, here on 1:01pm today
[bold]Quote[/bold] A tramp asleep on a bench is a good side of Bournemouth?
[bold]Reply[/bold] By now he's probably [bold]one of the Chief Executives[/bold] , he looks like he's got all the qualifications, [italic]laid back attitude.[/italic]
Posted by: JLC, here on 1:01pm today
Quote A tramp asleep on a bench is a good side of Bournemouth?
Reply By now he's probably
one of the Chief Executives , he looks like he's got all the qualifications,
laid back attitude.
Posted by: omegaman, Bournemouth on 1:39pm Fri 28 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Carl Barron[/bold] wrote:
Posted by: JLC, here on 1:01pm today [bold]Quote[/bold] A tramp asleep on a bench is a good side of Bournemouth? [bold]Reply[/bold] By now he's probably [bold]one of the Chief Executives[/bold] , he looks like he's got all the qualifications, [italic]laid back attitude.[/italic] [/quote] A perfect example of a highly stupid comment.
Carl Barron wrote:
Posted by: JLC, here on 1:01pm today Quote A tramp asleep on a bench is a good side of Bournemouth? Reply By now he's probably one of the Chief Executives , he looks like he's got all the qualifications, laid back attitude.
A perfect example of a highly stupid comment.
Posted by: John, Poole on 2:07pm Fri 28 Mar 08
[quote][bold]fedupwithjobsworths[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Carrie[/bold] wrote: Sorry should have said The echo is happy to carry the story - but I wonder if it would be as quick to tell us the salaries that their top people earn?[/quote] The difference is that you don't need to buy the Echo if you don't want to. Nobody is forced to contribute to their salaries.[/quote] So no rewards for NHS doctors, nurses ambulancemen,firemen policemen,etc in your society... that is,of course, if, to coin a phrase you think there is any such thing as society!
fedupwithjobsworths wrote:
Carrie wrote: Sorry should have said The echo is happy to carry the story - but I wonder if it would be as quick to tell us the salaries that their top people earn?
The difference is that you don't need to buy the Echo if you don't want to. Nobody is forced to contribute to their salaries.
So no rewards for NHS doctors, nurses ambulancemen,firemen policemen,etc in your society... that is,of course, if, to coin a phrase you think there is any such thing as society!
Posted by: Chris, Wareham on 2:31pm Fri 28 Mar 08
I work for a local Council in a senior role (but not Chief Exec!), having previously spent 19 years working for a leading FTSE-100 company group. My work now is very similar and I still work just as hard (if not more so), but for a lot less pay & reward and with a much smaller team and budget to deliver very stretching targets. However, I'm really glad I made the switch, as I get so much more job satisfaction now and I work with a really capable & passionate team, which more than makes up for the drop in my earnings now. Compared to similar sized private companies (which in my experience are invariably much less diverse & complex to manage), I believe our senior managers & directors are **** good value. As public servants, we should rightly be challenged to deliver high standards & ever-improving performance, but please don't begrudge us a reasonably fair rate of pay. Most of us do this work because we want to make a difference for our communities - certainly not for the money, which many of us could boost substantially by working elsewhere.
I work for a local Council in a senior role (but not Chief Exec!), having previously spent 19 years working for a leading FTSE-100 company group. My work now is very similar and I still work just as hard (if not more so), but for a lot less pay & reward and with a much smaller team and budget to deliver very stretching targets. However, I'm really glad I made the switch, as I get so much more job satisfaction now and I work with a really capable & passionate team, which more than makes up for the drop in my earnings now. Compared to similar sized private companies (which in my experience are invariably much less diverse & complex to manage), I believe our senior managers & directors are **** good value. As public servants, we should rightly be challenged to deliver high standards & ever-improving performance, but please don't begrudge us a reasonably fair rate of pay. Most of us do this work because we want to make a difference for our communities - certainly not for the money, which many of us could boost substantially by working elsewhere.
Posted by: fedupwithjobsworths, Moordown on 3:33pm Fri 28 Mar 08
[quote][bold]John[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]fedupwithjobsworths[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Carrie[/bold] wrote: Sorry should have said The echo is happy to carry the story - but I wonder if it would be as quick to tell us the salaries that their top people earn?[/quote] The difference is that you don't need to buy the Echo if you don't want to. Nobody is forced to contribute to their salaries.[/quote] So no rewards for NHS doctors, nurses ambulancemen,firemen policemen,etc in your society... that is,of course, if, to coin a phrase you think there is any such thing as society![/quote] NHS doctors, nurses ambulancemen,firemen policemen, etc all do a fantastic job and deserve every penny they earn. These people are in front line jobs that serve the public - it's the empire building jobsworths I object to.
John wrote:
fedupwithjobsworths wrote: Carrie wrote: Sorry should have said The echo is happy to carry the story - but I wonder if it would be as quick to tell us the salaries that their top people earn?
The difference is that you don't need to buy the Echo if you don't want to. Nobody is forced to contribute to their salaries.
So no rewards for NHS doctors, nurses ambulancemen,firemen policemen,etc in your society... that is,of course, if, to coin a phrase you think there is any such thing as society!
NHS doctors, nurses ambulancemen,firemen policemen, etc all do a fantastic job and deserve every penny they earn. These people are in front line jobs that serve the public - it's the empire building jobsworths I object to.
Posted by: Phil, Poole on 3:45pm Fri 28 Mar 08
[quote][bold]fedupwithjobsworths[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]omegaman[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]derek[/bold] wrote: The people in charge of local gvmt cannot be compared to people who run real compaines . They pay what they want , they see the public as a big wallet to be emptied . If they where in the real world then they would be accountable and sackable . And of course , people in the real world have a choice , if they see bad service they move to another supplier.[/quote] Rubbish - Pay scales for Chief Executives are set nationally according to the size of the Council. They cannot just pay themselves what they want. As for private companies there are not many in the area that have a turnover of newarly half billion ponnds and get paid less than their local government equivalents.Local government officers are sackable and accountantable. I can only think you are just jealous that some people can earn and deserve a higher wage packet than yourself.[/quote] There is a big difference between running a company, which generates a turnover of £0.5 billion and one, which just spends this amount of money. A Chief Clerk is all that is needed to head up a Council. [/quote] You've hit the nail on the head. Also, the CEO of a company would be held accountable for results and therefore have far less job security than a council 'chief executive' - indeed the latter appear to have a job for life, not to mention a gold-plated pension. It's high time we council tax payers demanded better value for money.
fedupwithjobsworths wrote:
omegaman wrote:
derek wrote: The people in charge of local gvmt cannot be compared to people who run real compaines . They pay what they want , they see the public as a big wallet to be emptied . If they where in the real world then they would be accountable and sackable . And of course , people in the real world have a choice , if they see bad service they move to another supplier.
Rubbish - Pay scales for Chief Executives are set nationally according to the size of the Council. They cannot just pay themselves what they want. As for private companies there are not many in the area that have a turnover of newarly half billion ponnds and get paid less than their local government equivalents.Local government officers are sackable and accountantable. I can only think you are just jealous that some people can earn and deserve a higher wage packet than yourself.
There is a big difference between running a company, which generates a turnover of £0.5 billion and one, which just spends this amount of money. A Chief Clerk is all that is needed to head up a Council.
You've hit the nail on the head. Also, the CEO of a company would be held accountable for results and therefore have far less job security than a council 'chief executive' - indeed the latter appear to have a job for life, not to mention a gold-plated pension. It's high time we council tax payers demanded better value for money.
Posted by: Phil, Poole on 3:49pm Fri 28 Mar 08
[quote][bold]snoff[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]fedupwithjobsworths[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Richard[/bold] wrote: fedupwithjobsworths Go and offer yourself as Chief Exec to Bmth Council for £40k pa and let's see how you get on. [/quote] It wouldn’t be challenging enough :-)[/quote] I think your far too challenged as it is - rolling around in your own waste and howling wildly :)[/quote] snoff, I think we all know now that you 'work' for the council - on the rare occasions that you're not on this website. So please stop insulting tax-payers and go and earn the money we're paying you.
snoff wrote:
fedupwithjobsworths wrote:
Richard wrote: fedupwithjobsworths Go and offer yourself as Chief Exec to Bmth Council for £40k pa and let's see how you get on.
It wouldn’t be challenging enough :-)
I think your far too challenged as it is - rolling around in your own waste and howling wildly :)
snoff, I think we all know now that you 'work' for the council - on the rare occasions that you're not on this website. So please stop insulting tax-payers and go and earn the money we're paying you.
Posted by: Trifecta, Southbourne on 4:11pm Fri 28 Mar 08
"Bournemouth's chief executive, Pam Donnellan, saw her salary rise by 11.7 per cent to £121,205 in 2006/07"
I have no idea whether this lady is worth this money or not but can somebody tell me exactly what she does to earn it?
I mean the mechanics of the job, the day to day stuff. What special skills does she offer?
And what was the rate of pay for this job prior to 1997 and the boom in local government and red tape?
"Bournemouth's chief executive, Pam Donnellan, saw her salary rise by 11.7 per cent to £121,205 in 2006/07"
I have no idea whether this lady is worth this money or not but can somebody tell me exactly what she does to earn it?
I mean the mechanics of the job, the day to day stuff. What special skills does she offer?
And what was the rate of pay for this job prior to 1997 and the boom in local government and red tape?
Posted by: PETE WOODLEY on 4:24pm Fri 28 Mar 08
For a start,she wont speak to the likes of you and me,we are "beneath her",try phoning her at the town hall,HER royal palace,not a bit like mr lomas,who anyone could deal with.She is GOD.
For a start,she wont speak to the likes of you and me,we are "beneath her",try phoning her at the town hall,HER royal palace,not a bit like mr lomas,who anyone could deal with.She is GOD.
Posted by: PETE WOODLEY on 4:25pm Fri 28 Mar 08
For a start,she wont speak to the likes of you and me,we are "beneath her",try phoning her at the town hall,HER royal palace,not a bit like mr lomas,who anyone could deal with.She is GOD.
For a start,she wont speak to the likes of you and me,we are "beneath her",try phoning her at the town hall,HER royal palace,not a bit like mr lomas,who anyone could deal with.She is GOD.
Posted by: PETE WOODLEY on 4:27pm Fri 28 Mar 08
For a start,she wont speak to the likes of you and me,we are "beneath her",try phoning her at the town hall,HER royal palace,not a bit like mr lomas,who anyone could deal with.She is GOD.
For a start,she wont speak to the likes of you and me,we are "beneath her",try phoning her at the town hall,HER royal palace,not a bit like mr lomas,who anyone could deal with.She is GOD.
Posted by: Carl Barron, Dorset on 5:09pm Fri 28 Mar 08
[bold]How abot This Then?[/bold]
A survey revealed 14 executive Council chiefs earn more [bold]than Brown's annual salary[/bold] of 188,849 pounds, while a further 132 earn more than cabinet ministers -- at 137,579 pounds.
[bold]The highest earner[/bold] was Kent County Council's chief, [bold]Peter Gilroy[/bold] , who takes home almost 230,000 pounds, the survey found.
Is this [bold]taking the MICK[/bold] out of us Taxpayers, [italic]or what?[/italic]
[bold]Brown needs his head read[/bold] , if he's earning less than his subordinates
[bold]Copy paste[/bold] link into browser below:
http://uk.reuters.co
m/article/domesticNe
ws/idUKGOR8326672008
0328
[bold]More info at[/bold]
tasknews+hot topics
http://uk.geocities.
com/tasknews/
How abot This Then?
A survey revealed 14 executive Council chiefs earn more
than Brown's annual salary of 188,849 pounds, while a further 132 earn more than cabinet ministers -- at 137,579 pounds.
The highest earner was Kent County Council's chief,
Peter Gilroy , who takes home almost 230,000 pounds, the survey found.
Is this
taking the MICK out of us Taxpayers,
or what?
Brown needs his head read , if he's earning less than his subordinates
Copy paste link into browser below:
http://uk.reuters.co
m/article/domesticNe
ws/idUKGOR8326672008
0328
More info at
tasknews+hot topics
http://uk.geocities.
com/tasknews/
Posted by: the owl, Bere Regis on 5:10pm Fri 28 Mar 08
Don’t worry about duplicate posting its the climate to blame , Local University investigated the influence of focal transcranial magnetic stimulation (TMS) of the hand-associated motor cortex on the execution of ipsilateral finger-lifting movements in four humans all volunteers, All Seeing Eye,Hal101, Pete, and Mr Angry, In a simple finger reaction ,Movement onset was measured with an accelerometer. TMS delayed the execution of ipsilateral finger movement when the cortex stimulus preceded the onset of the intended movement of the index finger, the delay of the movement was 40 ms. Causing the posts to the Echo to be submitted more than once, Taking the corticomuscular conduction times to the activated muscles into account, TMS suppressed the output from the motor cortex in a period 6-45 ms after the contralateral motor cortex was stimulated. Such timing would be compatible with an interhemispheric inhibition similar to the previously described ipsilateral inhibition of ongoing tonic motor activity scientists concluded that all four volunteers should be cured when this wet weather is over.
Don’t worry about duplicate posting its the climate to blame , Local University investigated the influence of focal transcranial magnetic stimulation (TMS) of the hand-associated motor cortex on the execution of ipsilateral finger-lifting movements in four humans all volunteers, All Seeing Eye,Hal101, Pete, and Mr Angry, In a simple finger reaction ,Movement onset was measured with an accelerometer. TMS delayed the execution of ipsilateral finger movement when the cortex stimulus preceded the onset of the intended movement of the index finger, the delay of the movement was 40 ms. Causing the posts to the Echo to be submitted more than once, Taking the corticomuscular conduction times to the activated muscles into account, TMS suppressed the output from the motor cortex in a period 6-45 ms after the contralateral motor cortex was stimulated. Such timing would be compatible with an interhemispheric inhibition similar to the previously described ipsilateral inhibition of ongoing tonic motor activity scientists concluded that all four volunteers should be cured when this wet weather is over.
Posted by: Trifecta, Southbourne on 5:39pm Fri 28 Mar 08
I do not know about giving her a call Peter, as I have no idea what she actually does, but at her hourly rate I would not want to waste her time!
A quick Google reveals that she seems to appoint a lot of consultants but there must be more. Surely?
Oh BTW.
[bold]"With a turnover of around £400 million the salaries are perfectly normal and represent good value for money when compared with other public and private sector organisations of this size."[/bold]
A quote from the last council leader a year ago today when the Echo ran the same story quoting from the same organisation.
It's the same old song.....
I do not know about giving her a call Peter, as I have no idea what she actually does, but at her hourly rate I would not want to waste her time!
A quick Google reveals that she seems to appoint a lot of consultants but there must be more. Surely?
Oh BTW.
"With a turnover of around £400 million the salaries are perfectly normal and represent good value for money when compared with other public and private sector organisations of this size."
A quote from the last council leader a year ago today when the Echo ran the same story quoting from the same organisation.
It's the same old song.....
Posted by: omegaman, Bournemouth on 5:44pm Fri 28 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Phil[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]fedupwithjobsworths[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]omegaman[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]derek[/bold] wrote: The people in charge of local gvmt cannot be compared to people who run real compaines . They pay what they want , they see the public as a big wallet to be emptied . If they where in the real world then they would be accountable and sackable . And of course , people in the real world have a choice , if they see bad service they move to another supplier.[/quote] Rubbish - Pay scales for Chief Executives are set nationally according to the size of the Council. They cannot just pay themselves what they want. As for private companies there are not many in the area that have a turnover of newarly half billion ponnds and get paid less than their local government equivalents.Local government officers are sackable and accountantable. I can only think you are just jealous that some people can earn and deserve a higher wage packet than yourself.[/quote] There is a big difference between running a company, which generates a turnover of £0.5 billion and one, which just spends this amount of money. A Chief Clerk is all that is needed to head up a Council. [/quote] You've hit the nail on the head. Also, the CEO of a company would be held accountable for results and therefore have far less job security than a council 'chief executive' - indeed the latter appear to have a job for life, not to mention a gold-plated pension. It's high time we council tax payers demanded better value for money.[/quote] Again these contributors know nothing about how the system works. Local Government CEs do not have a job for life. They are on fixed term contracts and assessed every year for performance.Indeed the checks on them is far greater than any CE in the private sector.As for psension those in the private sector can out do local government ones by as much as tenfold. Some people never want to know the truth.
Phil wrote:
fedupwithjobsworths wrote: omegaman wrote: derek wrote: The people in charge of local gvmt cannot be compared to people who run real compaines . They pay what they want , they see the public as a big wallet to be emptied . If they where in the real world then they would be accountable and sackable . And of course , people in the real world have a choice , if they see bad service they move to another supplier.
Rubbish - Pay scales for Chief Executives are set nationally according to the size of the Council. They cannot just pay themselves what they want. As for private companies there are not many in the area that have a turnover of newarly half billion ponnds and get paid less than their local government equivalents.Local government officers are sackable and accountantable. I can only think you are just jealous that some people can earn and deserve a higher wage packet than yourself.
There is a big difference between running a company, which generates a turnover of £0.5 billion and one, which just spends this amount of money. A Chief Clerk is all that is needed to head up a Council.
You've hit the nail on the head. Also, the CEO of a company would be held accountable for results and therefore have far less job security than a council 'chief executive' - indeed the latter appear to have a job for life, not to mention a gold-plated pension. It's high time we council tax payers demanded better value for money.
Again these contributors know nothing about how the system works. Local Government CEs do not have a job for life. They are on fixed term contracts and assessed every year for performance.Indeed the checks on them is far greater than any CE in the private sector.As for psension those in the private sector can out do local government ones by as much as tenfold. Some people never want to know the truth.
Posted by: omegaman, Bournemouth on 5:48pm Fri 28 Mar 08
[quote][bold]PETE WOODLEY[/bold] wrote:
For a start,she wont speak to the likes of you and me,we are "beneath her",try phoning her at the town hall,HER royal palace,not a bit like mr lomas,who anyone could deal with.She is GOD.[/quote] What you really mean is that she is GOOD and worth every penny she gets.She always answers genuine letters from local residents but as anyone else would declines to waste her time with anyone who jus writes in because they have nothing else to do and are vindictive in the process. I presume you are not one of those. By the way you are in danger of losing one of those pints I owe you.
PETE WOODLEY wrote:
For a start,she wont speak to the likes of you and me,we are "beneath her",try phoning her at the town hall,HER royal palace,not a bit like mr lomas,who anyone could deal with.She is GOD.
What you really mean is that she is GOOD and worth every penny she gets.She always answers genuine letters from local residents but as anyone else would declines to waste her time with anyone who jus writes in because they have nothing else to do and are vindictive in the process. I presume you are not one of those. By the way you are in danger of losing one of those pints I owe you.
Posted by: snoff, Poole on 5:49pm Fri 28 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Phil[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]snoff[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]fedupwithjobsworths[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Richard[/bold] wrote: fedupwithjobsworths Go and offer yourself as Chief Exec to Bmth Council for £40k pa and let's see how you get on. [/quote] It wouldn’t be challenging enough :-)[/quote] I think your far too challenged as it is - rolling around in your own waste and howling wildly :)[/quote] snoff, I think we all know now that you 'work' for the council - on the rare occasions that you're not on this website. So please stop insulting tax-payers and go and earn the money we're paying you.[/quote] Hi there, haven't been on for a while to be honest, not really missed much as you spout the usual nonsense - all a bit boring really. I don't work for the council but I love winding morons like you up! ;)
Phil wrote:
snoff wrote: fedupwithjobsworths wrote: Richard wrote: fedupwithjobsworths Go and offer yourself as Chief Exec to Bmth Council for £40k pa and let's see how you get on.
It wouldn’t be challenging enough :-)
I think your far too challenged as it is - rolling around in your own waste and howling wildly :)
snoff, I think we all know now that you 'work' for the council - on the rare occasions that you're not on this website. So please stop insulting tax-payers and go and earn the money we're paying you.
Hi there, haven't been on for a while to be honest, not really missed much as you spout the usual nonsense - all a bit boring really. I don't work for the council but I love winding morons like you up! ;)
Posted by: snoff, Poole on 5:50pm Fri 28 Mar 08
[quote][bold]PETE WOODLEY[/bold] wrote:
For a start,she wont speak to the likes of you and me,we are "beneath her",try phoning her at the town hall,HER royal palace,not a bit like mr lomas,who anyone could deal with.She is GOD.[/quote] yes, I think you have made your point now, back of bed Mr Woodley!
PETE WOODLEY wrote:
For a start,she wont speak to the likes of you and me,we are "beneath her",try phoning her at the town hall,HER royal palace,not a bit like mr lomas,who anyone could deal with.She is GOD.
yes, I think you have made your point now, back of bed Mr Woodley!
Posted by: fedupwithjobsworths, Moordown on 6:05pm Fri 28 Mar 08
[quote][bold]snoff[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]PETE WOODLEY[/bold] wrote: For a start,she wont speak to the likes of you and me,we are "beneath her",try phoning her at the town hall,HER royal palace,not a bit like mr lomas,who anyone could deal with.She is GOD.[/quote] yes, I think you have made your point now, back of bed Mr Woodley! [/quote] Does anyone know if snoff has ever made a valid comment - he just seems to slag people off.
snoff wrote:
PETE WOODLEY wrote: For a start,she wont speak to the likes of you and me,we are "beneath her",try phoning her at the town hall,HER royal palace,not a bit like mr lomas,who anyone could deal with.She is GOD.
yes, I think you have made your point now, back of bed Mr Woodley!
Does anyone know if snoff has ever made a valid comment - he just seems to slag people off.
Posted by: Bournemouth UKIP, Bournemouth on 6:22pm Fri 28 Mar 08
So called market forces don't come into this. No private company can force you to buy their product on pain of imprisoment or a hefty fine and there are no alternative competitors to the local council to force prices down.
So called market forces don't come into this. No private company can force you to buy their product on pain of imprisoment or a hefty fine and there are no alternative competitors to the local council to force prices down.
Posted by: HAL101, Bournemouth on 6:27pm Fri 28 Mar 08
Posted by: Carl Barron, Dorset on 1:30pm today
[quote]Quote A tramp asleep on a bench is a good side of Bournemouth?
Reply By now he's probably one of the Chief Executives , he looks like he's got all the qualifications, laid back attitude.[/quote]
Carl, that is a pure gold comment. One of the best you have made. [bold]Going by personal experience[/bold] the chief exec [bold]do no work what so ever[/bold] . They just fill an office chair - the most expensive that money can buy.
Posted by: Carl Barron, Dorset on 1:30pm today
Quote A tramp asleep on a bench is a good side of Bournemouth?
Reply By now he's probably one of the Chief Executives , he looks like he's got all the qualifications, laid back attitude.
Carl, that is a pure gold comment. One of the best you have made.
Going by personal experience the chief exec
do no work what so ever . They just fill an office chair - the most expensive that money can buy.
Posted by: HAL101, Bournemouth on 6:33pm Fri 28 Mar 08
the owl, Bere Regis on 5:10pm today
That's really good, I am [bold]impressed[/bold] . I have taken a copy and put it into a new folder - 'Insulting Posters'
Any more ?
the owl, Bere Regis on 5:10pm today
That's really good, I am
impressed . I have taken a copy and put it into a new folder - 'Insulting Posters'
Any more ?
Posted by: omegaman, Bournemouth on 6:36pm Fri 28 Mar 08
[quote][bold]HAL101[/bold] wrote:
Posted by: Carl Barron, Dorset on 1:30pm today [quote]Quote A tramp asleep on a bench is a good side of Bournemouth? Reply By now he's probably one of the Chief Executives , he looks like he's got all the qualifications, laid back attitude.[/quote] Carl, that is a pure gold comment. One of the best you have made. [bold]Going by personal experience[/bold] the chief exec [bold]do no work what so ever[/bold] . They just fill an office chair - the most expensive that money can buy.[/quote] Again a very silly and ignorant comment. The CE of Bournemouth heads one of the largest organisations in Dorset. a 1/2 billion pound budget. nearly 7000 staff. She should actually get more and then she is not in the private sector. Perhaps all the morons who keep wrting in should actually think about the issue a bit more thoughtfully or perhaps they are not capable of doing that.
HAL101 wrote:
Posted by: Carl Barron, Dorset on 1:30pm today Quote A tramp asleep on a bench is a good side of Bournemouth? Reply By now he's probably one of the Chief Executives , he looks like he's got all the qualifications, laid back attitude.
Carl, that is a pure gold comment. One of the best you have made. Going by personal experience the chief exec do no work what so ever . They just fill an office chair - the most expensive that money can buy.
Again a very silly and ignorant comment. The CE of Bournemouth heads one of the largest organisations in Dorset. a 1/2 billion pound budget. nearly 7000 staff. She should actually get more and then she is not in the private sector. Perhaps all the morons who keep wrting in should actually think about the issue a bit more thoughtfully or perhaps they are not capable of doing that.
Posted by: HAL101, Bournemouth on 6:38pm Fri 28 Mar 08
[quote][bold]omegaman[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Phil[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]fedupwithjobsworths[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]omegaman[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]derek[/bold] wrote: The people in charge of local gvmt cannot be compared to people who run real compaines . They pay what they want , they see the public as a big wallet to be emptied . If they where in the real world then they would be accountable and sackable . And of course , people in the real world have a choice , if they see bad service they move to another supplier.[/quote] Rubbish - Pay scales for Chief Executives are set nationally according to the size of the Council. They cannot just pay themselves what they want. As for private companies there are not many in the area that have a turnover of newarly half billion ponnds and get paid less than their local government equivalents.Local government officers are sackable and accountantable. I can only think you are just jealous that some people can earn and deserve a higher wage packet than yourself.[/quote] There is a big difference between running a company, which generates a turnover of £0.5 billion and one, which just spends this amount of money. A Chief Clerk is all that is needed to head up a Council. [/quote] You've hit the nail on the head. Also, the CEO of a company would be held accountable for results and therefore have far less job security than a council 'chief executive' - indeed the latter appear to have a job for life, not to mention a gold-plated pension. It's high time we council tax payers demanded better value for money.[/quote] Again these contributors know nothing about how the system works. Local Government CEs do not have a job for life. They are on fixed term contracts and assessed every year for performance.Indeed the checks on them is far greater than any CE in the private sector.As for psension those in the private sector can out do local government ones by as much as tenfold. Some people never want to know the truth.[/quote] Yes that is because we are kept in the dark.
So come on omegaman, who checks them, and who decides the pay rate. Enlighten us please.
omegaman wrote:
Phil wrote: fedupwithjobsworths wrote: omegaman wrote: derek wrote: The people in charge of local gvmt cannot be compared to people who run real compaines . They pay what they want , they see the public as a big wallet to be emptied . If they where in the real world then they would be accountable and sackable . And of course , people in the real world have a choice , if they see bad service they move to another supplier.
Rubbish - Pay scales for Chief Executives are set nationally according to the size of the Council. They cannot just pay themselves what they want. As for private companies there are not many in the area that have a turnover of newarly half billion ponnds and get paid less than their local government equivalents.Local government officers are sackable and accountantable. I can only think you are just jealous that some people can earn and deserve a higher wage packet than yourself.
There is a big difference between running a company, which generates a turnover of £0.5 billion and one, which just spends this amount of money. A Chief Clerk is all that is needed to head up a Council.
You've hit the nail on the head. Also, the CEO of a company would be held accountable for results and therefore have far less job security than a council 'chief executive' - indeed the latter appear to have a job for life, not to mention a gold-plated pension. It's high time we council tax payers demanded better value for money.
Again these contributors know nothing about how the system works. Local Government CEs do not have a job for life. They are on fixed term contracts and assessed every year for performance.Indeed the checks on them is far greater than any CE in the private sector.As for psension those in the private sector can out do local government ones by as much as tenfold. Some people never want to know the truth.
Yes that is because we are kept in the dark.
So come on omegaman, who checks them, and who decides the pay rate. Enlighten us please.
Posted by: omegaman, Bournemouth on 6:40pm Fri 28 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Bournemouth UKIP[/bold] wrote:
So called market forces don't come into this. No private company can force you to buy their product on pain of imprisoment or a hefty fine and there are no alternative competitors to the local council to force prices down.[/quote] Wondered when the nutters from UKIP would join in!
Bournemouth UKIP wrote:
So called market forces don't come into this. No private company can force you to buy their product on pain of imprisoment or a hefty fine and there are no alternative competitors to the local council to force prices down.
Wondered when the nutters from UKIP would join in!
Posted by: omegaman, Bournemouth on 6:42pm Fri 28 Mar 08
[quote][bold]HAL101[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]omegaman[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Phil[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]fedupwithjobsworths[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]omegaman[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]derek[/bold] wrote: The people in charge of local gvmt cannot be compared to people who run real compaines . They pay what they want , they see the public as a big wallet to be emptied . If they where in the real world then they would be accountable and sackable . And of course , people in the real world have a choice , if they see bad service they move to another supplier.[/quote] Rubbish - Pay scales for Chief Executives are set nationally according to the size of the Council. They cannot just pay themselves what they want. As for private companies there are not many in the area that have a turnover of newarly half billion ponnds and get paid less than their local government equivalents.Local government officers are sackable and accountantable. I can only think you are just jealous that some people can earn and deserve a higher wage packet than yourself.[/quote] There is a big difference between running a company, which generates a turnover of £0.5 billion and one, which just spends this amount of money. A Chief Clerk is all that is needed to head up a Council. [/quote] You've hit the nail on the head. Also, the CEO of a company would be held accountable for results and therefore have far less job security than a council 'chief executive' - indeed the latter appear to have a job for life, not to mention a gold-plated pension. It's high time we council tax payers demanded better value for money.[/quote] Again these contributors know nothing about how the system works. Local Government CEs do not have a job for life. They are on fixed term contracts and assessed every year for performance.Indeed the checks on them is far greater than any CE in the private sector.As for psension those in the private sector can out do local government ones by as much as tenfold. Some people never want to know the truth.[/quote] Yes that is because we are kept in the dark. So come on omegaman, who checks them, and who decides the pay rate. Enlighten us please. [/quote] The Audit Commission for starters.
HAL101 wrote:
omegaman wrote: Phil wrote: fedupwithjobsworths wrote: omegaman wrote: derek wrote: The people in charge of local gvmt cannot be compared to people who run real compaines . They pay what they want , they see the public as a big wallet to be emptied . If they where in the real world then they would be accountable and sackable . And of course , people in the real world have a choice , if they see bad service they move to another supplier.
Rubbish - Pay scales for Chief Executives are set nationally according to the size of the Council. They cannot just pay themselves what they want. As for private companies there are not many in the area that have a turnover of newarly half billion ponnds and get paid less than their local government equivalents.Local government officers are sackable and accountantable. I can only think you are just jealous that some people can earn and deserve a higher wage packet than yourself.
There is a big difference between running a company, which generates a turnover of £0.5 billion and one, which just spends this amount of money. A Chief Clerk is all that is needed to head up a Council.
You've hit the nail on the head. Also, the CEO of a company would be held accountable for results and therefore have far less job security than a council 'chief executive' - indeed the latter appear to have a job for life, not to mention a gold-plated pension. It's high time we council tax payers demanded better value for money.
Again these contributors know nothing about how the system works. Local Government CEs do not have a job for life. They are on fixed term contracts and assessed every year for performance.Indeed the checks on them is far greater than any CE in the private sector.As for psension those in the private sector can out do local government ones by as much as tenfold. Some people never want to know the truth.
Yes that is because we are kept in the dark. So come on omegaman, who checks them, and who decides the pay rate. Enlighten us please.
The Audit Commission for starters.
Posted by: Charlie on 6:44pm Fri 28 Mar 08
Chris wrote:
[italic]"As public servants, we should rightly be challenged to deliver high standards & ever-improving performance, but please don't begrudge us a reasonably fair rate of pay. Most of us do this work because we want to make a difference for our communities - certainly not for the money, which many of us could boost substantially by working elsewhere."[/italic]
Glad you've acknowledged that you are a servant - I always did. Of course, there's also the final salary pension to be taken into account - has made my retirement very comfortable.
Chris wrote:
"As public servants, we should rightly be challenged to deliver high standards & ever-improving performance, but please don't begrudge us a reasonably fair rate of pay. Most of us do this work because we want to make a difference for our communities - certainly not for the money, which many of us could boost substantially by working elsewhere."
Glad you've acknowledged that you are a servant - I always did. Of course, there's also the final salary pension to be taken into account - has made my retirement very comfortable.
Posted by: HAL101, Bournemouth on 6:50pm Fri 28 Mar 08
omegaman, Bournemouth on 6:36pm today
What is silly ?
What is ignorant ?
Justify please or apologise and retract.
The CE does not 'head'. The democratically elected councillors do. The CE is simply an administrator who ‘heads’ a bloated department (7000 !!!) that is hopelessly over funded and overpowered and long overdue a drastic server prune.
There is no comparison to made with the free market private sector. The council is part of the non-democratic state ruling system.
What is silly ?
What is ignorant ?
Justify please or apologise and retract.
I await your reply.
omegaman, Bournemouth on 6:36pm today
What is silly ?
What is ignorant ?
Justify please or apologise and retract.
The CE does not 'head'. The democratically elected councillors do. The CE is simply an administrator who ‘heads’ a bloated department (7000 !!!) that is hopelessly over funded and overpowered and long overdue a drastic server prune.
There is no comparison to made with the free market private sector. The council is part of the non-democratic state ruling system.
What is silly ?
What is ignorant ?
Justify please or apologise and retract.
I await your reply.
Posted by: HAL101, Bournemouth on 6:55pm Fri 28 Mar 08
omegaman, Bournemouth on 6:42pm today
[quote]The Audit Commission for starters.[/quote]
Hiding behind empty titles ?
Let me guess, they work or are appointed by a branch of the non-democratic state ruling sector - the civil service.
Can you say who actually does it ?
omegaman, Bournemouth on 6:42pm today
The Audit Commission for starters.
Hiding behind empty titles ?
Let me guess, they work or are appointed by a branch of the non-democratic state ruling sector - the civil service.
Can you say who actually does it ?
Posted by: HAL101, Bournemouth on 7:02pm Fri 28 Mar 08
Posted by: Charlie on 6:44pm today
[quote]please don't begrudge us a reasonably fair rate of pay[/quote]
We don’t begrudge you Charlie. In fact, we demand that you have a fair rate of pay. About a quarter of what you have now, plus state retirement age of 65, plus the state pension. Now what is fairer than that ?
Note - in the 1930s the state employees had their pay cut by 30% (I believe)
Posted by: Charlie on 6:44pm today
please don't begrudge us a reasonably fair rate of pay
We don’t begrudge you Charlie. In fact, we demand that you have a fair rate of pay. About a quarter of what you have now, plus state retirement age of 65, plus the state pension. Now what is fairer than that ?
Note - in the 1930s the state employees had their pay cut by 30% (I believe)
Posted by: omegaman, Bournemouth on 7:15pm Fri 28 Mar 08
[quote][bold]HAL101[/bold] wrote:
omegaman, Bournemouth on 6:36pm today What is silly ? What is ignorant ? Justify please or apologise and retract. The CE does not 'head'. The democratically elected councillors do. The CE is simply an administrator who ‘heads’ a bloated department (7000 !!!) that is hopelessly over funded and overpowered and long overdue a drastic server prune. There is no comparison to made with the free market private sector. The council is part of the non-democratic state ruling system. What is silly ? What is ignorant ? Justify please or apologise and retract. I await your reply. [/quote] You have just made my point exactly. The full time employees f the Council are responsible for the day to day running of the Council and not the elected Councillors.The apology shpould come from the likes of you who make comments without any knowledge of the facts whatssoever.But never mind if it gives you pleasure then so be it but no one in their right mind would take you seriously.Of course the CE heads the organisation. If the Council was overfunded then why would everyone complain about councl tax increases - there would be no need for increases at all. I think that is probably enough lesson for you to take in in one go so take your milk and go to bed early like a good child.
HAL101 wrote:
omegaman, Bournemouth on 6:36pm today What is silly ? What is ignorant ? Justify please or apologise and retract. The CE does not 'head'. The democratically elected councillors do. The CE is simply an administrator who ‘heads’ a bloated department (7000 !!!) that is hopelessly over funded and overpowered and long overdue a drastic server prune. There is no comparison to made with the free market private sector. The council is part of the non-democratic state ruling system. What is silly ? What is ignorant ? Justify please or apologise and retract. I await your reply.
You have just made my point exactly. The full time employees f the Council are responsible for the day to day running of the Council and not the elected Councillors.The apology shpould come from the likes of you who make comments without any knowledge of the facts whatssoever.But never mind if it gives you pleasure then so be it but no one in their right mind would take you seriously.Of course the CE heads the organisation. If the Council was overfunded then why would everyone complain about councl tax increases - there would be no need for increases at all. I think that is probably enough lesson for you to take in in one go so take your milk and go to bed early like a good child.
Posted by: Trifecta, Southbourne on 7:18pm Fri 28 Mar 08
You defend her eloquently Omegaman but what does she actually do for her money?
You mentioned checks on her performance. I can only find one and that was in 2004 when her department was identified by the BBC as failing.
They said:
"Bosses at one of the South's worst performing social service units have defended themselves after it failed to improve its star rating.
Bournemouth Social Services was given just one star in the latest government performance figures."
The reward for this performance? Well worth having.
I have no axe to grind about this woman, she is obviously a career civil servant who has done well for herself and for that alone she is to be applauded.
But what does she actually do Sir ?
You defend her eloquently Omegaman but what does she actually do for her money?
You mentioned checks on her performance. I can only find one and that was in 2004 when her department was identified by the BBC as failing.
They said:
"Bosses at one of the South's worst performing social service units have defended themselves after it failed to improve its star rating.
Bournemouth Social Services was given just one star in the latest government performance figures."
The reward for this performance? Well worth having.
I have no axe to grind about this woman, she is obviously a career civil servant who has done well for herself and for that alone she is to be applauded.
But what does she actually do Sir ?
Posted by: Bournemouth UKIP, Bournemouth on 7:20pm Fri 28 Mar 08
[quote][bold]omegaman[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Bournemouth UKIP[/bold] wrote: So called market forces don't come into this. No private company can force you to buy their product on pain of imprisoment or a hefty fine and there are no alternative competitors to the local council to force prices down.[/quote] Wondered when the nutters from UKIP would join in! [/quote] Funny that - We wondered when the insults would start?
omegaman wrote:
Bournemouth UKIP wrote: So called market forces don't come into this. No private company can force you to buy their product on pain of imprisoment or a hefty fine and there are no alternative competitors to the local council to force prices down.
Wondered when the nutters from UKIP would join in!
Funny that - We wondered when the insults would start?
Posted by: HAL101, Bournemouth on 7:32pm Fri 28 Mar 08
omegaman, Bournemouth on 7:15pm today
[quote]The full time employees f the Council are responsible for the day to day running of the Council and not the elected Councillors.[/quote]
Exactly. The council are simply [bold]administrators[/bold] and it is the councillors who are the [bold]elected executives[/bold] . We fully agree with each other. It is so nice to be agreeable, would you not agree ?
The council is over funded by the government and the council tax payer, as is obvious from the [bold]bloated[/bold] wages, the [bold]low[/bold] retirement age, and the [bold]golden[/bold] pension, quite apart from the council contractors. And of course the [bold]gross[/bold] over manning (or to be more accurate over womanning) of the 7000 (!!!!! are you sure about that ?) staff. It is no wonder that there is so [bold]few police[/bold] around, and that [bold]class sizes of 30 to 40[/bold] are common, and that state pensioners are [bold]cripple[/bold] by the [bold]unrealistically high[/bold] council tax.
You have avoided all my questions and have [bold]not justified[/bold] your abuse of me. [bold]I demand[/bold] that you apologise for calling me silly and ignorant, and implying that I am childish.
omegaman, Bournemouth on 7:15pm today
