Ice rink would be on way to being completed if AFC Bournemouth hadn’t competed against us, says operator

INTERESTED: Eddie Mitchell at the site

INTERESTED: Eddie Mitchell at the site

First published in News
Last updated
by

AN ICE rink operator who was in talks to build a stadium at King’s Park has spoken about their reasons for pulling out.

Somerset-based Burnham Developments twice attempted to progress plans to build an Olympic-sized rink and other leisure facilities.

They overcame concerns about the Five Parks Act but withdrew from talks when faced with competition from AFC Bournemouth.

This meant the council was obliged to go through a tendering process and this was not a risk the company wanted to take.

Director and consultant John Collinson said: “We were in negotiations about the detailed terms of an exclusivity arrangement and in parallel with that we were advised to talk with AFC Bournemouth.

“The proposal was to share parking with the football club, however the outcome of sharing our progress with AFC Bournemouth was that they separately contacted the council to say that they would like to develop the project themselves without us.

“We can’t afford to enter public competitions, we can only do deals with either private or public landowners on a one-to-one basis.”

AFC Bournemouth then withdrew as well and Burnham Developments approached the council again, only to be told another interested party had come forward.

Mr Collinson stressed he had no complaints about his dealings with Bournemouth council and said: “All we can do is wish them well and hope they get the ice rink that we all believe the town deserves.

“It was very unfortunate that the football club for a very limited time decided they wanted to compete against us.

“If they hadn’t done that I dare say we would have been well on our way to getting the thing completed now.”

Eddie Mitchell, who as AFC Bournemouth chairman spearheaded their interest in the ice rink project, declined to comment on the reasons they withdrew.

But he said: “If I was personally given the opportunity through my company to look at the possibility of funding for a new ice rink complex, I would be more than interested.”

Cllr Lawrence Williams, cabinet member for tourism, leisure and culture, said: “We are currently in discussions with an ice rink operator and we remain committed to the provision of a new ice facility in King’s Park.

“However, at a time when the council’s finances are under severe pressure, we need to ensure that any proposals are economically viable and can be developed and operated without subsidy.”

Comments (50)

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6:43am Tue 21 Jan 14

Talkingheadera says...

Please don't give it to Mitchell.
The stadium roof leaks in parts an so did the club shop not long ago.his company were in charge of maintaining the ground.
Please don't give it to Mitchell. The stadium roof leaks in parts an so did the club shop not long ago.his company were in charge of maintaining the ground. Talkingheadera
  • Score: 2

6:56am Tue 21 Jan 14

MW Bournemouth says...

Who are the 3rd party Bournemouth Council keep talking about? Starting to think they don't really exist especially as they go on to talk about how their finances are under pressure all the time.
Could Burnham be talked round and try again with the backing of the public who have already signed the petition for a permanent rink?
Who are the 3rd party Bournemouth Council keep talking about? Starting to think they don't really exist especially as they go on to talk about how their finances are under pressure all the time. Could Burnham be talked round and try again with the backing of the public who have already signed the petition for a permanent rink? MW Bournemouth
  • Score: 3

7:26am Tue 21 Jan 14

nosuchluck54 says...

MW Bournemouth wrote:
Who are the 3rd party Bournemouth Council keep talking about? Starting to think they don't really exist especially as they go on to talk about how their finances are under pressure all the time.
Could Burnham be talked round and try again with the backing of the public who have already signed the petition for a permanent rink?
This will be great by the time I return from work today im sure the Miss Marples and the rest of the Echos "who done it" armchair detectives team and conspiracy theorists will have the answer.
[quote][p][bold]MW Bournemouth[/bold] wrote: Who are the 3rd party Bournemouth Council keep talking about? Starting to think they don't really exist especially as they go on to talk about how their finances are under pressure all the time. Could Burnham be talked round and try again with the backing of the public who have already signed the petition for a permanent rink?[/p][/quote]This will be great by the time I return from work today im sure the Miss Marples and the rest of the Echos "who done it" armchair detectives team and conspiracy theorists will have the answer. nosuchluck54
  • Score: 9

7:29am Tue 21 Jan 14

Wilkie says...

The improvements to the stadium and it's surrounds are a credit to the town. Were it not for Eddie Mitchell's vision and singlemindedness in overcoming the obstructions put up by the council, we would still have a dog toilet in the park rather than the immaculate training pitches. Perhaps Talkingheader would like to get off his backside and drive forward the Ice Rink project.
The improvements to the stadium and it's surrounds are a credit to the town. Were it not for Eddie Mitchell's vision and singlemindedness in overcoming the obstructions put up by the council, we would still have a dog toilet in the park rather than the immaculate training pitches. Perhaps Talkingheader would like to get off his backside and drive forward the Ice Rink project. Wilkie
  • Score: 11

7:38am Tue 21 Jan 14

kalebmoledirt says...

It is 5 months since Mr Mitchell was involved with the running of AFC Bournemouth so why wasn,t the campaigning skaters and more importantly the rate payers not made aware.Just how much clout do these one or developers have.Might as well just dump the council and and let the developers decided what is good for the residents of Bournemouth.or is that the case already?
It is 5 months since Mr Mitchell was involved with the running of AFC Bournemouth so why wasn,t the campaigning skaters and more importantly the rate payers not made aware.Just how much clout do these one or developers have.Might as well just dump the council and and let the developers decided what is good for the residents of Bournemouth.or is that the case already? kalebmoledirt
  • Score: 10

8:02am Tue 21 Jan 14

itsneverblackorwhite says...

The third party is probably S&D leisure and judging by the accounts of the lower gardens they will do very nicely out of it!
The third party is probably S&D leisure and judging by the accounts of the lower gardens they will do very nicely out of it! itsneverblackorwhite
  • Score: 10

8:09am Tue 21 Jan 14

djd says...

The company wanted it all their own way, an exclusivity agreement says it all. As for sharing the car park with the football club, perhaps the ice rink company were asked to contribute towards the maintenance retrospectively.
The spokesman says "I dare say the ice rink would be in the process of being built." That sounds like real commitment, doesn't it?
As for the third operator, please let it not be S&D or they will be running the ice rink like those tatty rides and exorbitant coffee kiosks in the town.
The company wanted it all their own way, an exclusivity agreement says it all. As for sharing the car park with the football club, perhaps the ice rink company were asked to contribute towards the maintenance retrospectively. The spokesman says "I dare say the ice rink would be in the process of being built." That sounds like real commitment, doesn't it? As for the third operator, please let it not be S&D or they will be running the ice rink like those tatty rides and exorbitant coffee kiosks in the town. djd
  • Score: 15

9:05am Tue 21 Jan 14

CourtOffside says...

A decent ice rink needs an anchor tenant in the form of a hockey club. Without that, the rink is never going to be sustainable. Leisure skaters, figure skating lessons and shows will all provide other income streams - but cannot provide enough money to make the rink work without the regular income a hockey team would provide.

If the council seriously wants this to happen, they need to go at it a different way - start speaking to Ice Hockey UK and work with them to find people who want to establish a new club that you can partner with. With the Eastern European population growing in the area there's an untapped market of potential fans waiting for them... It's a real shame AFCB didn't come through - it would have been ideal.
A decent ice rink needs an anchor tenant in the form of a hockey club. Without that, the rink is never going to be sustainable. Leisure skaters, figure skating lessons and shows will all provide other income streams - but cannot provide enough money to make the rink work without the regular income a hockey team would provide. If the council seriously wants this to happen, they need to go at it a different way - start speaking to Ice Hockey UK and work with them to find people who want to establish a new club that you can partner with. With the Eastern European population growing in the area there's an untapped market of potential fans waiting for them... It's a real shame AFCB didn't come through - it would have been ideal. CourtOffside
  • Score: 20

9:16am Tue 21 Jan 14

speedy231278 says...

Why does Bournemouth 'need' an ice rink?
Why does Bournemouth 'need' an ice rink? speedy231278
  • Score: 2

9:27am Tue 21 Jan 14

kalebmoledirt says...

speedy231278 wrote:
Why does Bournemouth 'need' an ice rink?
It doesn't need one a few people want one
[quote][p][bold]speedy231278[/bold] wrote: Why does Bournemouth 'need' an ice rink?[/p][/quote]It doesn't need one a few people want one kalebmoledirt
  • Score: 18

9:37am Tue 21 Jan 14

Lord Spring says...

speedy231278 wrote:
Why does Bournemouth 'need' an ice rink?
Web nearly had one this morning.
[quote][p][bold]speedy231278[/bold] wrote: Why does Bournemouth 'need' an ice rink?[/p][/quote]Web nearly had one this morning. Lord Spring
  • Score: -4

9:38am Tue 21 Jan 14

Lord Spring says...

Lord Spring wrote:
speedy231278 wrote:
Why does Bournemouth 'need' an ice rink?
Web nearly had one this morning.
We
[quote][p][bold]Lord Spring[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]speedy231278[/bold] wrote: Why does Bournemouth 'need' an ice rink?[/p][/quote]Web nearly had one this morning.[/p][/quote]We Lord Spring
  • Score: -10

10:06am Tue 21 Jan 14

speedy231278 says...

kalebmoledirt wrote:
speedy231278 wrote:
Why does Bournemouth 'need' an ice rink?
It doesn't need one a few people want one
Amazing the difference between need and want. Bournemouth needs a better public transport system, but the council are more interested in ice rinks and cinemas because they can make a nice wedge off of them....
[quote][p][bold]kalebmoledirt[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]speedy231278[/bold] wrote: Why does Bournemouth 'need' an ice rink?[/p][/quote]It doesn't need one a few people want one[/p][/quote]Amazing the difference between need and want. Bournemouth needs a better public transport system, but the council are more interested in ice rinks and cinemas because they can make a nice wedge off of them.... speedy231278
  • Score: 16

10:34am Tue 21 Jan 14

BmthNewshound says...

I don't understand the obsession with the town having an ice rink. This is a vocal minority demanding something the town doesn't need and an incompetent Council jumping on the bandwagon without scrutinising the commercial viability of an ice rink.
.
My fear is that if an ice rink is built that it will be a commercial disaster and we'll end up with the taxpayer having to fund yet with another white elephant.
.
Imax, Surf Reef, Pavilion Gardens/West Central, Winter Gardens - time after time Bournemouth Council demonstrates its inability to successfully deliver large scale projects.
I don't understand the obsession with the town having an ice rink. This is a vocal minority demanding something the town doesn't need and an incompetent Council jumping on the bandwagon without scrutinising the commercial viability of an ice rink. . My fear is that if an ice rink is built that it will be a commercial disaster and we'll end up with the taxpayer having to fund yet with another white elephant. . Imax, Surf Reef, Pavilion Gardens/West Central, Winter Gardens - time after time Bournemouth Council demonstrates its inability to successfully deliver large scale projects. BmthNewshound
  • Score: 14

10:50am Tue 21 Jan 14

kalebmoledirt says...

Sorry if I,m repeating myself .look on skaters forum it states that's,an ice rink open 18hours,a day will cost £160 pound an hour to maintain or £1000,000 a year then there is they original building cost to repay it doesn't,t say whether that includes staffing ,insurance ,business tax ect. ,You can only close so many toilets to cover that sort of outlay
Sorry if I,m repeating myself .look on skaters forum it states that's,an ice rink open 18hours,a day will cost £160 pound an hour to maintain or £1000,000 a year then there is they original building cost to repay it doesn't,t say whether that includes staffing ,insurance ,business tax ect. ,You can only close so many toilets to cover that sort of outlay kalebmoledirt
  • Score: 5

11:32am Tue 21 Jan 14

retry69 says...

Lord Spring wrote:
Lord Spring wrote:
speedy231278 wrote:
Why does Bournemouth 'need' an ice rink?
Web nearly had one this morning.
We
Looks like youre skating on thin ice
[quote][p][bold]Lord Spring[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lord Spring[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]speedy231278[/bold] wrote: Why does Bournemouth 'need' an ice rink?[/p][/quote]Web nearly had one this morning.[/p][/quote]We[/p][/quote]Looks like youre skating on thin ice retry69
  • Score: -3

11:33am Tue 21 Jan 14

retry69 says...

Lord Spring wrote:
Lord Spring wrote:
speedy231278 wrote:
Why does Bournemouth 'need' an ice rink?
Web nearly had one this morning.
We
On thin ice lol :)
[quote][p][bold]Lord Spring[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lord Spring[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]speedy231278[/bold] wrote: Why does Bournemouth 'need' an ice rink?[/p][/quote]Web nearly had one this morning.[/p][/quote]We[/p][/quote]On thin ice lol :) retry69
  • Score: -4

11:40am Tue 21 Jan 14

retry69 says...

Seriously though a joint business venture with Eddie Mitchell and Dave Wells at the helm is all a Bournemouth based ice rink needs,guaranteed success.
Seriously though a joint business venture with Eddie Mitchell and Dave Wells at the helm is all a Bournemouth based ice rink needs,guaranteed success. retry69
  • Score: -12

12:13pm Tue 21 Jan 14

John T says...

retry69 wrote:
Lord Spring wrote:
Lord Spring wrote:
speedy231278 wrote:
Why does Bournemouth 'need' an ice rink?
Web nearly had one this morning.
We
Looks like youre skating on thin ice
And it's almost mellow yellow...weh!
[quote][p][bold]retry69[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lord Spring[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Lord Spring[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]speedy231278[/bold] wrote: Why does Bournemouth 'need' an ice rink?[/p][/quote]Web nearly had one this morning.[/p][/quote]We[/p][/quote]Looks like youre skating on thin ice[/p][/quote]And it's almost mellow yellow...weh! John T
  • Score: 2

12:15pm Tue 21 Jan 14

mcadder says...

kalebmoledirt wrote:
Sorry if I,m repeating myself .look on skaters forum it states that's,an ice rink open 18hours,a day will cost £160 pound an hour to maintain or £1000,000 a year then there is they original building cost to repay it doesn't,t say whether that includes staffing ,insurance ,business tax ect. ,You can only close so many toilets to cover that sort of outlay
Agree - if ice rinks are a viable business, then the one in Westover Road would still be open. Overheads are too high to operate the premises successfully.
Also, Councillor Williams quotes - We are currently in discussions with an ice rink operator and we remain committed to the provision of a new ice facility in King’s Park.
“However, at a time when the council’s finances are under severe pressure, we need to ensure that any proposals are economically viable and can be developed and operated without subsidy.” SO, HOW COME BOURNEMOUTH COUNCIL HAVE £15,000,000 SPARE TO SET UP THE BANK OF BOURNEMOUTH??
[quote][p][bold]kalebmoledirt[/bold] wrote: Sorry if I,m repeating myself .look on skaters forum it states that's,an ice rink open 18hours,a day will cost £160 pound an hour to maintain or £1000,000 a year then there is they original building cost to repay it doesn't,t say whether that includes staffing ,insurance ,business tax ect. ,You can only close so many toilets to cover that sort of outlay[/p][/quote]Agree - if ice rinks are a viable business, then the one in Westover Road would still be open. Overheads are too high to operate the premises successfully. Also, Councillor Williams quotes - We are currently in discussions with an ice rink operator and we remain committed to the provision of a new ice facility in King’s Park. “However, at a time when the council’s finances are under severe pressure, we need to ensure that any proposals are economically viable and can be developed and operated without subsidy.” SO, HOW COME BOURNEMOUTH COUNCIL HAVE £15,000,000 SPARE TO SET UP THE BANK OF BOURNEMOUTH?? mcadder
  • Score: 0

12:35pm Tue 21 Jan 14

Noel. says...

mcadder wrote:
kalebmoledirt wrote:
Sorry if I,m repeating myself .look on skaters forum it states that's,an ice rink open 18hours,a day will cost £160 pound an hour to maintain or £1000,000 a year then there is they original building cost to repay it doesn't,t say whether that includes staffing ,insurance ,business tax ect. ,You can only close so many toilets to cover that sort of outlay
Agree - if ice rinks are a viable business, then the one in Westover Road would still be open. Overheads are too high to operate the premises successfully.
Also, Councillor Williams quotes - We are currently in discussions with an ice rink operator and we remain committed to the provision of a new ice facility in King’s Park.
“However, at a time when the council’s finances are under severe pressure, we need to ensure that any proposals are economically viable and can be developed and operated without subsidy.” SO, HOW COME BOURNEMOUTH COUNCIL HAVE £15,000,000 SPARE TO SET UP THE BANK OF BOURNEMOUTH??
Because they are expecting a £8million return on their investment per annum according to Echo reports. I doubt an Ice Rink will give that.

The Surf Reef must be giving negative returns........
[quote][p][bold]mcadder[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]kalebmoledirt[/bold] wrote: Sorry if I,m repeating myself .look on skaters forum it states that's,an ice rink open 18hours,a day will cost £160 pound an hour to maintain or £1000,000 a year then there is they original building cost to repay it doesn't,t say whether that includes staffing ,insurance ,business tax ect. ,You can only close so many toilets to cover that sort of outlay[/p][/quote]Agree - if ice rinks are a viable business, then the one in Westover Road would still be open. Overheads are too high to operate the premises successfully. Also, Councillor Williams quotes - We are currently in discussions with an ice rink operator and we remain committed to the provision of a new ice facility in King’s Park. “However, at a time when the council’s finances are under severe pressure, we need to ensure that any proposals are economically viable and can be developed and operated without subsidy.” SO, HOW COME BOURNEMOUTH COUNCIL HAVE £15,000,000 SPARE TO SET UP THE BANK OF BOURNEMOUTH??[/p][/quote]Because they are expecting a £8million return on their investment per annum according to Echo reports. I doubt an Ice Rink will give that. The Surf Reef must be giving negative returns........ Noel.
  • Score: 7

12:42pm Tue 21 Jan 14

sundaydriver says...

I think the site would be a great place for a Drive Thru McDonalds
I think the site would be a great place for a Drive Thru McDonalds sundaydriver
  • Score: 0

12:43pm Tue 21 Jan 14

mcadder says...

Noel. wrote:
mcadder wrote:
kalebmoledirt wrote:
Sorry if I,m repeating myself .look on skaters forum it states that's,an ice rink open 18hours,a day will cost £160 pound an hour to maintain or £1000,000 a year then there is they original building cost to repay it doesn't,t say whether that includes staffing ,insurance ,business tax ect. ,You can only close so many toilets to cover that sort of outlay
Agree - if ice rinks are a viable business, then the one in Westover Road would still be open. Overheads are too high to operate the premises successfully.
Also, Councillor Williams quotes - We are currently in discussions with an ice rink operator and we remain committed to the provision of a new ice facility in King’s Park.
“However, at a time when the council’s finances are under severe pressure, we need to ensure that any proposals are economically viable and can be developed and operated without subsidy.” SO, HOW COME BOURNEMOUTH COUNCIL HAVE £15,000,000 SPARE TO SET UP THE BANK OF BOURNEMOUTH??
Because they are expecting a £8million return on their investment per annum according to Echo reports. I doubt an Ice Rink will give that.

The Surf Reef must be giving negative returns........
You miss the point - The council should be using the funds to provide better services, not lending it to people who are a bad credit risk who can't borrow elsewhere.
[quote][p][bold]Noel.[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]mcadder[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]kalebmoledirt[/bold] wrote: Sorry if I,m repeating myself .look on skaters forum it states that's,an ice rink open 18hours,a day will cost £160 pound an hour to maintain or £1000,000 a year then there is they original building cost to repay it doesn't,t say whether that includes staffing ,insurance ,business tax ect. ,You can only close so many toilets to cover that sort of outlay[/p][/quote]Agree - if ice rinks are a viable business, then the one in Westover Road would still be open. Overheads are too high to operate the premises successfully. Also, Councillor Williams quotes - We are currently in discussions with an ice rink operator and we remain committed to the provision of a new ice facility in King’s Park. “However, at a time when the council’s finances are under severe pressure, we need to ensure that any proposals are economically viable and can be developed and operated without subsidy.” SO, HOW COME BOURNEMOUTH COUNCIL HAVE £15,000,000 SPARE TO SET UP THE BANK OF BOURNEMOUTH??[/p][/quote]Because they are expecting a £8million return on their investment per annum according to Echo reports. I doubt an Ice Rink will give that. The Surf Reef must be giving negative returns........[/p][/quote]You miss the point - The council should be using the funds to provide better services, not lending it to people who are a bad credit risk who can't borrow elsewhere. mcadder
  • Score: 1

12:44pm Tue 21 Jan 14

retry69 says...

"McDonalds On Ice" does have a certain ring about it :)
"McDonalds On Ice" does have a certain ring about it :) retry69
  • Score: -2

12:46pm Tue 21 Jan 14

sundaydriver says...

Thanks - see how quickly a good idea catches on. Milkshakes would stay cool as well. We could have a Skate Thru McDonalds
Thanks - see how quickly a good idea catches on. Milkshakes would stay cool as well. We could have a Skate Thru McDonalds sundaydriver
  • Score: -3

12:52pm Tue 21 Jan 14

retry69 says...

The idea is snowballing isn't it,there would be iced doughnuts also :)
The idea is snowballing isn't it,there would be iced doughnuts also :) retry69
  • Score: -4

12:58pm Tue 21 Jan 14

Phixer says...

kalebmoledirt wrote:
It is 5 months since Mr Mitchell was involved with the running of AFC Bournemouth so why wasn,t the campaigning skaters and more importantly the rate payers not made aware.Just how much clout do these one or developers have.Might as well just dump the council and and let the developers decided what is good for the residents of Bournemouth.or is that the case already?
Wasn't that the case 100 years ago? And a fine legacy they left us. Not today's concrete carbuncles.
[quote][p][bold]kalebmoledirt[/bold] wrote: It is 5 months since Mr Mitchell was involved with the running of AFC Bournemouth so why wasn,t the campaigning skaters and more importantly the rate payers not made aware.Just how much clout do these one or developers have.Might as well just dump the council and and let the developers decided what is good for the residents of Bournemouth.or is that the case already?[/p][/quote]Wasn't that the case 100 years ago? And a fine legacy they left us. Not today's concrete carbuncles. Phixer
  • Score: 1

1:08pm Tue 21 Jan 14

lionheart says...

mcadder wrote:
kalebmoledirt wrote:
Sorry if I,m repeating myself .look on skaters forum it states that's,an ice rink open 18hours,a day will cost £160 pound an hour to maintain or £1000,000 a year then there is they original building cost to repay it doesn't,t say whether that includes staffing ,insurance ,business tax ect. ,You can only close so many toilets to cover that sort of outlay
Agree - if ice rinks are a viable business, then the one in Westover Road would still be open. Overheads are too high to operate the premises successfully.
Also, Councillor Williams quotes - We are currently in discussions with an ice rink operator and we remain committed to the provision of a new ice facility in King’s Park.
“However, at a time when the council’s finances are under severe pressure, we need to ensure that any proposals are economically viable and can be developed and operated without subsidy.” SO, HOW COME BOURNEMOUTH COUNCIL HAVE £15,000,000 SPARE TO SET UP THE BANK OF BOURNEMOUTH??
The old Westover Ice Rink situated above shops with no parking, rink size problems, water leaking etc had had its day. Kings Park is about the only site left in town.

The picture above is of the car park leased to AFC Bournemouth and not the proposed site of the ice rink.
[quote][p][bold]mcadder[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]kalebmoledirt[/bold] wrote: Sorry if I,m repeating myself .look on skaters forum it states that's,an ice rink open 18hours,a day will cost £160 pound an hour to maintain or £1000,000 a year then there is they original building cost to repay it doesn't,t say whether that includes staffing ,insurance ,business tax ect. ,You can only close so many toilets to cover that sort of outlay[/p][/quote]Agree - if ice rinks are a viable business, then the one in Westover Road would still be open. Overheads are too high to operate the premises successfully. Also, Councillor Williams quotes - We are currently in discussions with an ice rink operator and we remain committed to the provision of a new ice facility in King’s Park. “However, at a time when the council’s finances are under severe pressure, we need to ensure that any proposals are economically viable and can be developed and operated without subsidy.” SO, HOW COME BOURNEMOUTH COUNCIL HAVE £15,000,000 SPARE TO SET UP THE BANK OF BOURNEMOUTH??[/p][/quote]The old Westover Ice Rink situated above shops with no parking, rink size problems, water leaking etc had had its day. Kings Park is about the only site left in town. The picture above is of the car park leased to AFC Bournemouth and not the proposed site of the ice rink. lionheart
  • Score: 2

1:24pm Tue 21 Jan 14

roypoppy says...

ice rinks are 100% viable with a full hockey team, ice shows etc, look at how many are in this country. There must be at least 50 rinks and a premier resort like Bournemouth should have one!!! The only reason Westover shut was because when it was built back in 1920 it was wrong from the start!!! It should have never been built over shops. It leaked in summer and condensation in winter. It became un insurable in the end thats why it closed!!!
ice rinks are 100% viable with a full hockey team, ice shows etc, look at how many are in this country. There must be at least 50 rinks and a premier resort like Bournemouth should have one!!! The only reason Westover shut was because when it was built back in 1920 it was wrong from the start!!! It should have never been built over shops. It leaked in summer and condensation in winter. It became un insurable in the end thats why it closed!!! roypoppy
  • Score: 1

1:35pm Tue 21 Jan 14

sundaydriver says...

How many ice rinks are there in England?
How many ice rinks are there in England? sundaydriver
  • Score: -1

1:46pm Tue 21 Jan 14

nickynoodah says...

sundaydriver wrote:
How many ice rinks are there in England?
Ask Gropper Moledirt
hes sure to know
you know
[quote][p][bold]sundaydriver[/bold] wrote: How many ice rinks are there in England?[/p][/quote]Ask Gropper Moledirt hes sure to know you know nickynoodah
  • Score: -2

1:49pm Tue 21 Jan 14

sundaydriver says...

Wasn't he on Dancing On Ice?
Wasn't he on Dancing On Ice? sundaydriver
  • Score: -2

2:03pm Tue 21 Jan 14

nickynoodah says...

That's right george
he fell over on slippery ice
and blarted
That's right george he fell over on slippery ice and blarted nickynoodah
  • Score: -3

2:04pm Tue 21 Jan 14

kalebmoledirt says...

nickynoodah wrote:
sundaydriver wrote:
How many ice rinks are there in England?
Ask Gropper Moledirt
hes sure to know
you know
32 permanent ones. it,s spelt groper
[quote][p][bold]nickynoodah[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]sundaydriver[/bold] wrote: How many ice rinks are there in England?[/p][/quote]Ask Gropper Moledirt hes sure to know you know[/p][/quote]32 permanent ones. it,s spelt groper kalebmoledirt
  • Score: -1

2:06pm Tue 21 Jan 14

sundaydriver says...

32! wow that is a surprise - I wonder what their profitability is?
32! wow that is a surprise - I wonder what their profitability is? sundaydriver
  • Score: 2

2:17pm Tue 21 Jan 14

nickynoodah says...

sundaydriver wrote:
32! wow that is a surprise - I wonder what their profitability is?
Ask Gropper Moledirt
hes sure to know
you know
[quote][p][bold]sundaydriver[/bold] wrote: 32! wow that is a surprise - I wonder what their profitability is?[/p][/quote]Ask Gropper Moledirt hes sure to know you know nickynoodah
  • Score: -2

2:19pm Tue 21 Jan 14

kalebmoledirt says...

sundaydriver wrote:
32! wow that is a surprise - I wonder what their profitability is?
Don,t know there is a swimming pool in the country that makes a profit and they get a lot more use than ice rinks and that,s is a fact
[quote][p][bold]sundaydriver[/bold] wrote: 32! wow that is a surprise - I wonder what their profitability is?[/p][/quote]Don,t know there is a swimming pool in the country that makes a profit and they get a lot more use than ice rinks and that,s is a fact kalebmoledirt
  • Score: 4

2:34pm Tue 21 Jan 14

High Treason says...

Did they really expect anything else from Mitchell, the ultimate unacceptable face of capitalism.
Did they really expect anything else from Mitchell, the ultimate unacceptable face of capitalism. High Treason
  • Score: 4

2:49pm Tue 21 Jan 14

mark.s says...

If this Burnham company feels unable to go into a tender process competing against Eddie Mitchell - that says something very bad about Burnham. If you can't produce a cost competitive and cost efficient design against Mitchell, then you're going very wrong somewhere.

That failing is nothing to do with the football club or local council.
If this Burnham company feels unable to go into a tender process competing against Eddie Mitchell - that says something very bad about Burnham. If you can't produce a cost competitive and cost efficient design against Mitchell, then you're going very wrong somewhere. That failing is nothing to do with the football club or local council. mark.s
  • Score: 3

4:03pm Tue 21 Jan 14

Bob49 says...

Is this the same Burnham Developments who were talking about building ice rinks at Burnham on Sea and Newquay as well as Bournemouth as far back as 2007 ? None of which were ever built.

This is no more anything to do with Ice Skating than handing over a big chunk of Boscombe seafront to a developer was about surfing. If anybody had bothered to look at the plans that went before the planning committee that would have seen that they were a joke. Outdoor archery courts and a climbing wall !

Even the planning meeting was a joke with one not too bright councillor trying to jump the gun and put it to the vote, before any deputations hhad been heard. Clearly he knew the had already been arranged but had not been told that you should not make that fact so obvious.

And as with the IMAX/carpark site where the witless keep bleating about the view, it is nothing more than a ruse to hand over public land to favoured private developers. Comprehensive redevelopment, we are now told. Much as with numerous carparks.

Sadly what is so blindingly obvious appears to be so easily over looked once a small minority convince themselves that their interest might be being pandered to.

Not so much carpet bagging, as carparkbagging

Trebles all round, old boy !
Is this the same Burnham Developments who were talking about building ice rinks at Burnham on Sea and Newquay as well as Bournemouth as far back as 2007 ? None of which were ever built. This is no more anything to do with Ice Skating than handing over a big chunk of Boscombe seafront to a developer was about surfing. If anybody had bothered to look at the plans that went before the planning committee that would have seen that they were a joke. Outdoor archery courts and a climbing wall ! Even the planning meeting was a joke with one not too bright councillor trying to jump the gun and put it to the vote, before any deputations hhad been heard. Clearly he knew the had already been arranged but had not been told that you should not make that fact so obvious. And as with the IMAX/carpark site where the witless keep bleating about the view, it is nothing more than a ruse to hand over public land to favoured private developers. Comprehensive redevelopment, we are now told. Much as with numerous carparks. Sadly what is so blindingly obvious appears to be so easily over looked once a small minority convince themselves that their interest might be being pandered to. Not so much carpet bagging, as carparkbagging Trebles all round, old boy ! Bob49
  • Score: 2

4:25pm Tue 21 Jan 14

susi.m says...

I thought that all council stuff or stuff on land owned by the council had to go out to tender.
I thought that all council stuff or stuff on land owned by the council had to go out to tender. susi.m
  • Score: 2

7:39pm Tue 21 Jan 14

kalebmoledirt says...

Going off on a tangent .no withstanding the desperate need for an ice rink more cinema seats ,boutique restaurants,clubs bars and fast food outlets,Bournemouth is blessed with fine beaches ,great country side and a sometimes lite sign welcoming the disoriented holidaymakers to the town that as a surplus of a lot of money ?are any of the developers interested in building a few council houses for the families in expensive B&B.Sorry if this sounds Naive
Going off on a tangent .no withstanding the desperate need for an ice rink more cinema seats ,boutique restaurants,clubs bars and fast food outlets,Bournemouth is blessed with fine beaches ,great country side and a sometimes lite sign welcoming the disoriented holidaymakers to the town that as a surplus of a lot of money ?are any of the developers interested in building a few council houses for the families in expensive B&B.Sorry if this sounds Naive kalebmoledirt
  • Score: 0

8:18pm Tue 21 Jan 14

kalebmoledirt says...

CourtOffside wrote:
A decent ice rink needs an anchor tenant in the form of a hockey club. Without that, the rink is never going to be sustainable. Leisure skaters, figure skating lessons and shows will all provide other income streams - but cannot provide enough money to make the rink work without the regular income a hockey team would provide.

If the council seriously wants this to happen, they need to go at it a different way - start speaking to Ice Hockey UK and work with them to find people who want to establish a new club that you can partner with. With the Eastern European population growing in the area there's an untapped market of potential fans waiting for them... It's a real shame AFCB didn't come through - it would have been ideal.
As a long term solution to making an ice rink viable I agree.however it would like building a premier league standard football stadium in Poole and inviting a football club to do it justice,they need to be formed and work their way up through the divisions.Would be a brave investor
[quote][p][bold]CourtOffside[/bold] wrote: A decent ice rink needs an anchor tenant in the form of a hockey club. Without that, the rink is never going to be sustainable. Leisure skaters, figure skating lessons and shows will all provide other income streams - but cannot provide enough money to make the rink work without the regular income a hockey team would provide. If the council seriously wants this to happen, they need to go at it a different way - start speaking to Ice Hockey UK and work with them to find people who want to establish a new club that you can partner with. With the Eastern European population growing in the area there's an untapped market of potential fans waiting for them... It's a real shame AFCB didn't come through - it would have been ideal.[/p][/quote]As a long term solution to making an ice rink viable I agree.however it would like building a premier league standard football stadium in Poole and inviting a football club to do it justice,they need to be formed and work their way up through the divisions.Would be a brave investor kalebmoledirt
  • Score: 1

10:32pm Tue 21 Jan 14

Bournefre says...

For some reason the more arguments I hear 'for' an ice rink the more I am against one:
The Saturday evening light entertainment programme 'Dancing on Ice' isn't actually that popular, which is why ratings plummeted and why it is being cancelled. Torvill and Dean may have been popular in the 80s and 90s but their past popularity is no indication of how many people would use a permanent ice rink now - it would be like building an Olympic sized diving pool because of the current popularity of Tom Daley.
If ice skating is still so popular why are so many ice rinks closing down? Not just the Westover road one but all over the country.
Building a new ice rink in an attempt to buck a national trend seems like another high risk venture, the like of which local taxpayers are becoming tired of.
Given Bournemouth's past record of 'problems from the start' with things like this (Castlepoint, Imax, surf reef, 'Welcome to Bournemouth' sign, beach 'pods', Poole's Twin Sails bridge) where is the guarantee that a new, bigger ice rink further out of town will fare any better than the Westover road ice rink which shut down for the same reason?
Everybody seems to agree a new ice rink would need serious users such as sports teams and ice shows as well as casual users such as families caught out by the rain; considering none of these teams or even users currently exist, assuming they will materialise is another big gamble.
Building a permanent Olympic sized ice rink based on the popularity of a temporary winter rink seems to make as much sense as building a permanent Santa's Grotto based on the popularity of temporary Grottos around Christmas.
Ask a load of children if they want 'an ice rink' or 'no ice rink' and of course they'll say they want one, without considering the amount of taxpayers' money that would be wasted on an uneconomic venture.

I would love to be proved wrong, but I feel it is another town's turn to lead the way and attempt to resurrect what seems to be a pastime from a bygone age.
For some reason the more arguments I hear 'for' an ice rink the more I am against one: The Saturday evening light entertainment programme 'Dancing on Ice' isn't actually that popular, which is why ratings plummeted and why it is being cancelled. Torvill and Dean may have been popular in the 80s and 90s but their past popularity is no indication of how many people would use a permanent ice rink now - it would be like building an Olympic sized diving pool because of the current popularity of Tom Daley. If ice skating is still so popular why are so many ice rinks closing down? Not just the Westover road one but all over the country. Building a new ice rink in an attempt to buck a national trend seems like another high risk venture, the like of which local taxpayers are becoming tired of. Given Bournemouth's past record of 'problems from the start' with things like this (Castlepoint, Imax, surf reef, 'Welcome to Bournemouth' sign, beach 'pods', Poole's Twin Sails bridge) where is the guarantee that a new, bigger ice rink further out of town will fare any better than the Westover road ice rink which shut down for the same reason? Everybody seems to agree a new ice rink would need serious users such as sports teams and ice shows as well as casual users such as families caught out by the rain; considering none of these teams or even users currently exist, assuming they will materialise is another big gamble. Building a permanent Olympic sized ice rink based on the popularity of a temporary winter rink seems to make as much sense as building a permanent Santa's Grotto based on the popularity of temporary Grottos around Christmas. Ask a load of children if they want 'an ice rink' or 'no ice rink' and of course they'll say they want one, without considering the amount of taxpayers' money that would be wasted on an uneconomic venture. I would love to be proved wrong, but I feel it is another town's turn to lead the way and attempt to resurrect what seems to be a pastime from a bygone age. Bournefre
  • Score: 3

9:21am Wed 22 Jan 14

Davepix says...

I have visited over 70 ice rinks in this country and all over the world.
An Olympic size ice rink with 4000 seats is not necessary, Ice Hockey teams are expensive to run and will not necessarily make money.
Best idea find an empty warehouse or build one on an Industrial estate and put either a 56m x 26m rink in there with 1000 seats similar to Oxford and Swindon or a 44m x 22m as Gosport or Ryde, much cheaper and easier to build and run and will still answer all the needs
I have visited over 70 ice rinks in this country and all over the world. An Olympic size ice rink with 4000 seats is not necessary, Ice Hockey teams are expensive to run and will not necessarily make money. Best idea find an empty warehouse or build one on an Industrial estate and put either a 56m x 26m rink in there with 1000 seats similar to Oxford and Swindon or a 44m x 22m as Gosport or Ryde, much cheaper and easier to build and run and will still answer all the needs Davepix
  • Score: 1

11:13am Wed 22 Jan 14

CourtOffside says...

Davepix wrote:
I have visited over 70 ice rinks in this country and all over the world.
An Olympic size ice rink with 4000 seats is not necessary, Ice Hockey teams are expensive to run and will not necessarily make money.
Best idea find an empty warehouse or build one on an Industrial estate and put either a 56m x 26m rink in there with 1000 seats similar to Oxford and Swindon or a 44m x 22m as Gosport or Ryde, much cheaper and easier to build and run and will still answer all the needs
"Ice hockey teams ... will not necessarily make money"

The profits are irrelevant. They would pay rent...

56x26 is the minimum size allowed under IIHF rules. I believe it would be foolish to build a rink with those dimensions and be vulnerable to future rule changes which could render it unusable for league hockey.

44x22 is no good to anyone but leisure skaters.
[quote][p][bold]Davepix[/bold] wrote: I have visited over 70 ice rinks in this country and all over the world. An Olympic size ice rink with 4000 seats is not necessary, Ice Hockey teams are expensive to run and will not necessarily make money. Best idea find an empty warehouse or build one on an Industrial estate and put either a 56m x 26m rink in there with 1000 seats similar to Oxford and Swindon or a 44m x 22m as Gosport or Ryde, much cheaper and easier to build and run and will still answer all the needs[/p][/quote]"Ice hockey teams ... will not necessarily make money" The profits are irrelevant. They would pay rent... 56x26 is the minimum size allowed under IIHF rules. I believe it would be foolish to build a rink with those dimensions and be vulnerable to future rule changes which could render it unusable for league hockey. 44x22 is no good to anyone but leisure skaters. CourtOffside
  • Score: 0

11:39am Wed 22 Jan 14

CourtOffside says...

kalebmoledirt wrote:
CourtOffside wrote:
A decent ice rink needs an anchor tenant in the form of a hockey club. Without that, the rink is never going to be sustainable. Leisure skaters, figure skating lessons and shows will all provide other income streams - but cannot provide enough money to make the rink work without the regular income a hockey team would provide.

If the council seriously wants this to happen, they need to go at it a different way - start speaking to Ice Hockey UK and work with them to find people who want to establish a new club that you can partner with. With the Eastern European population growing in the area there's an untapped market of potential fans waiting for them... It's a real shame AFCB didn't come through - it would have been ideal.
As a long term solution to making an ice rink viable I agree.however it would like building a premier league standard football stadium in Poole and inviting a football club to do it justice,they need to be formed and work their way up through the divisions.Would be a brave investor
There's no automatic promotion and relegation to the top level in hockey.. However I agree, you don't just form a club and apply for election to the EIHL - but that has to be the aim, to get a club established and build it up to that level over a few years.

The costs aren't that huge, and again with so many synergies between two sports clubs it would have been an ideal scenario for an AFCB hockey club to be launched that could then share fitness, physio, ticketing etc with the football team..
[quote][p][bold]kalebmoledirt[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]CourtOffside[/bold] wrote: A decent ice rink needs an anchor tenant in the form of a hockey club. Without that, the rink is never going to be sustainable. Leisure skaters, figure skating lessons and shows will all provide other income streams - but cannot provide enough money to make the rink work without the regular income a hockey team would provide. If the council seriously wants this to happen, they need to go at it a different way - start speaking to Ice Hockey UK and work with them to find people who want to establish a new club that you can partner with. With the Eastern European population growing in the area there's an untapped market of potential fans waiting for them... It's a real shame AFCB didn't come through - it would have been ideal.[/p][/quote]As a long term solution to making an ice rink viable I agree.however it would like building a premier league standard football stadium in Poole and inviting a football club to do it justice,they need to be formed and work their way up through the divisions.Would be a brave investor[/p][/quote]There's no automatic promotion and relegation to the top level in hockey.. However I agree, you don't just form a club and apply for election to the EIHL - but that has to be the aim, to get a club established and build it up to that level over a few years. The costs aren't that huge, and again with so many synergies between two sports clubs it would have been an ideal scenario for an AFCB hockey club to be launched that could then share fitness, physio, ticketing etc with the football team.. CourtOffside
  • Score: 1

11:47am Wed 22 Jan 14

CourtOffside says...

kalebmoledirt wrote:
Sorry if I,m repeating myself .look on skaters forum it states that's,an ice rink open 18hours,a day will cost £160 pound an hour to maintain or £1000,000 a year then there is they original building cost to repay it doesn't,t say whether that includes staffing ,insurance ,business tax ect. ,You can only close so many toilets to cover that sort of outlay
I don't know where those figures have come from, or who has dreamed them up.. but the main costs associated with an ice rink are energy costs. Modern energy efficient equipment makes a massive difference here.

The rink has to be self sustaining though, I agree.. and I don't see that being too much of a problem - provided there's a hockey club as an anchor tenant and a decent capacity to watch them and shows etc.
[quote][p][bold]kalebmoledirt[/bold] wrote: Sorry if I,m repeating myself .look on skaters forum it states that's,an ice rink open 18hours,a day will cost £160 pound an hour to maintain or £1000,000 a year then there is they original building cost to repay it doesn't,t say whether that includes staffing ,insurance ,business tax ect. ,You can only close so many toilets to cover that sort of outlay[/p][/quote]I don't know where those figures have come from, or who has dreamed them up.. but the main costs associated with an ice rink are energy costs. Modern energy efficient equipment makes a massive difference here. The rink has to be self sustaining though, I agree.. and I don't see that being too much of a problem - provided there's a hockey club as an anchor tenant and a decent capacity to watch them and shows etc. CourtOffside
  • Score: -1

3:56pm Wed 22 Jan 14

Bob49 says...

"Building a new ice rink in an attempt to buck a national trend..........."

It was not.

It was merely a means to get a change of use for that part of publicly owned park. That is why that nothing further has happened, or will happen since the vote was carried.

Just as at Boscombe seafront where the grand schemes and promises about surf reefs, surf pods etc have melted away now the flats have been built.

Likewise the Imax site. The 'not too bright' have overexcited themselves about the restoration of the view and the wondrous entertainment there - something that will be swept away when the 'comprehensive redevelopment' takes place.

There's much more that can be said, but best not as it would only cause this post to be removed.

All I can add is that Bournemouth tax[payers should open their eyes a good bit more and stop being so naive.
"Building a new ice rink in an attempt to buck a national trend..........." It was not. It was merely a means to get a change of use for that part of publicly owned park. That is why that nothing further has happened, or will happen since the vote was carried. Just as at Boscombe seafront where the grand schemes and promises about surf reefs, surf pods etc have melted away now the flats have been built. Likewise the Imax site. The 'not too bright' have overexcited themselves about the restoration of the view and the wondrous entertainment there - something that will be swept away when the 'comprehensive redevelopment' takes place. There's much more that can be said, but best not as it would only cause this post to be removed. All I can add is that Bournemouth tax[payers should open their eyes a good bit more and stop being so naive. Bob49
  • Score: 0

10:54pm Wed 22 Jan 14

Davepix says...

Try looking at Planet Ice web site! They successfully operate non Olympic sized rinks as well as Olympuc sized rinks.
Ice Hockey teams need a minimum of 15 players. And most of them would need to be foreign, lots of expenses.
The English Ice Hockey Assocition have their own very successful leagues. The smaller non standard rinks such as Ryde and Gosport are permitted to operate at the lower levels and attract a good fan base. The EIHA have an outstanding Junior development programme.
Good income can be made from evening and especially weekend family and adult disco skate sessions,.
Figure and speed skating clubs could also provide income.
What ever happens the Council will have to dig deep to support the facility.
So look out for an empty warehouse !
Try looking at Planet Ice web site! They successfully operate non Olympic sized rinks as well as Olympuc sized rinks. Ice Hockey teams need a minimum of 15 players. And most of them would need to be foreign, lots of expenses. The English Ice Hockey Assocition have their own very successful leagues. The smaller non standard rinks such as Ryde and Gosport are permitted to operate at the lower levels and attract a good fan base. The EIHA have an outstanding Junior development programme. Good income can be made from evening and especially weekend family and adult disco skate sessions,. Figure and speed skating clubs could also provide income. What ever happens the Council will have to dig deep to support the facility. So look out for an empty warehouse ! Davepix
  • Score: 0

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