Barriers and ‘lock down' measures – Poole residents call for better protection to deter travellers this summer

Bournemouth Echo: PROTECTION: Travellers moving onto Branksome Recreation ground PROTECTION: Travellers moving onto Branksome Recreation ground

RESIDENTS are calling for better protection for Poole’s open spaces to prevent easy access for travellers this summer.

Members of Branksome West Residents Association believe height barriers would act as a deterrent at the recreation ground, similar to those put in place at Corfe Mullen, which had no traveller camps.

At Branksome Rec at one time last summer there were approximately 19 caravans.

“Last year the travellers first broke in via the car park, in through the main gate which was open and then cut through the low level fencing separating the car park area from the green, with bolt cutters,” said association chairman Jacqui Wilson.

She said supplementing the low level fencing with small heavy duty cement pillars would prevent vehicles moving any further forward.

“We feel this would both secure the green and minimise the cost of protecting it.”

Planting shrubs would also act as a deterrent, she said. She said they were not making a special case for the rec and these measures would apply to the majority of the town’s open spaces.

She also called for co-operation and communication between the police and councils on eviction day so that a “lock down” of all green spaces could take place.

Joseph Jones, pictured above, of the Gypsy Council said there were a number of measures that could be taken, from negotiated stopping with everyone on site signing a contract to prosecuting anyone who dumped or left rubbish – using covert cameras.

“None of us want any kind of anti social behaviour,” he said. He said using covert cameras worked well in other areas where prolific fly tippers had stopped for fear of prosecution.

“If we can use police powers to remove their motors or even the threat of doing so, then we feel this would be a deterrent,” he said.

He said there needed to be a partnership with the community and called for all to work together to find an acceptable solution.

Borough of Poole councillors will meet on Thursday to discuss measures including better protection for vulnerable sites this summer.

Comments (34)

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5:34am Fri 4 Apr 14

ShuttleX says...

Joseph Jones said “None of us want any kind of anti social behaviour,” he said. He said using covert cameras worked well in other areas where prolific fly tippers had stopped for fear of prosecution."

I have to disagree Mr Jones. Some of these travellers thrive on the "us against the World" mentality. They know full well that their Anti Social behaviour causes anger and resentment, and really couldn't care less. They make no, or little, effort to compromise. It seems as if they want to cause as much bad press as they can.

When was the last time a traveller was successfully prosecuted for leaving rubbish behind? When have the Police ever removed travellers vehicles? Come to that, when have the Police ever checked their documents? The Law is an a55 in cases like this. They are so afraid of upsetting the travellers, or being accused of breaking somebodies Human Rights, they just turn a blind eye to what's going on, in the vain hope that it will go away. God help any local who dares say anything though, all sorts of dire threats are made then.

It seems to me that Local Councils spend way to much time worrying about the Travellers, and not enough time looking after the concerns of the residents they represent.
Joseph Jones said “None of us want any kind of anti social behaviour,” he said. He said using covert cameras worked well in other areas where prolific fly tippers had stopped for fear of prosecution." I have to disagree Mr Jones. Some of these travellers thrive on the "us against the World" mentality. They know full well that their Anti Social behaviour causes anger and resentment, and really couldn't care less. They make no, or little, effort to compromise. It seems as if they want to cause as much bad press as they can. When was the last time a traveller was successfully prosecuted for leaving rubbish behind? When have the Police ever removed travellers vehicles? Come to that, when have the Police ever checked their documents? The Law is an a55 in cases like this. They are so afraid of upsetting the travellers, or being accused of breaking somebodies Human Rights, they just turn a blind eye to what's going on, in the vain hope that it will go away. God help any local who dares say anything though, all sorts of dire threats are made then. It seems to me that Local Councils spend way to much time worrying about the Travellers, and not enough time looking after the concerns of the residents they represent. ShuttleX
  • Score: 45

7:34am Fri 4 Apr 14

Jeff in Parkstone says...

And Jacqui Wilson and yourself et al are not in a 100% confrontational mind set already ?

Your whole language and mind set not 100% aggressive ? - Travellers all totally wrong.

All outlaws to be villified and confronted.

Not a word on communication and liaison with Travellers.

There is no open common land in Poole.

There are no transit sites.

Genuine Travellers who travel are left with no option when in Poole but to use recreation grounds.

These grounds are not the personal property of any group of residents.

The issue needs communication negotiation and agreement both sides.

But what are you people doing - gearing up for 100% confrontation.

Allow space for some caravans on a part of the Rec. Make it clear where Travellers are not to go. Provide refuse and toilet facilities and I suggest Mr Shuttle you will then avoid confrontation.

And as for being "afraid" of upsetting Travellers - what about fear of upsetting resident groups and residents such as yourself ? You are demanding your solution to the issue (no Travellers on any Recs in any circumstances) as much as they are demanding use of the Recs.

To use your aggressive language God help any residents who shows any concern for the wellfare and the rights of travelling people. We will be shouted down and no less villified wont we.

And you mock Human Rights .... well read your history my friend. Its littered with perseuction .... and conflict both sides feeling they are the victims. You think you are the victims of Travellers - they feel they are the victims of town people and authorities who wont provide transit sites let alone common land.

Its a problem. It needs a solution. But all your hotility is doing is firing the issue up worse and worse. Wouldn't surprise me if Traveller groups read all that goes in the media as in these postings and with social media end up targetting those Rec areas where resident are most hostile and aggressive.

You end up getting what you bring on yourselves. Far better leave it all to Poole Council and police. Leave it all alone and I suggest with council organisation in restricted Rec areas with refuse and toilets facilties problems will be far less all round.

Jeff Williams
And Jacqui Wilson and yourself et al are not in a 100% confrontational mind set already ? Your whole language and mind set not 100% aggressive ? - Travellers all totally wrong. All outlaws to be villified and confronted. Not a word on communication and liaison with Travellers. There is no open common land in Poole. There are no transit sites. Genuine Travellers who travel are left with no option when in Poole but to use recreation grounds. These grounds are not the personal property of any group of residents. The issue needs communication negotiation and agreement both sides. But what are you people doing - gearing up for 100% confrontation. Allow space for some caravans on a part of the Rec. Make it clear where Travellers are not to go. Provide refuse and toilet facilities and I suggest Mr Shuttle you will then avoid confrontation. And as for being "afraid" of upsetting Travellers - what about fear of upsetting resident groups and residents such as yourself ? You are demanding your solution to the issue (no Travellers on any Recs in any circumstances) as much as they are demanding use of the Recs. To use your aggressive language God help any residents who shows any concern for the wellfare and the rights of travelling people. We will be shouted down and no less villified wont we. And you mock Human Rights .... well read your history my friend. Its littered with perseuction .... and conflict both sides feeling they are the victims. You think you are the victims of Travellers - they feel they are the victims of town people and authorities who wont provide transit sites let alone common land. Its a problem. It needs a solution. But all your hotility is doing is firing the issue up worse and worse. Wouldn't surprise me if Traveller groups read all that goes in the media as in these postings and with social media end up targetting those Rec areas where resident are most hostile and aggressive. You end up getting what you bring on yourselves. Far better leave it all to Poole Council and police. Leave it all alone and I suggest with council organisation in restricted Rec areas with refuse and toilets facilties problems will be far less all round. Jeff Williams Jeff in Parkstone
  • Score: -43

7:44am Fri 4 Apr 14

Peroni says...

At branksome ,they pulled off the low level barrier, that is crimminal damage is it not !
If i was to go and do that I would be arrested ,the police just stood and watched and told the public to allow access .
Putting in new barriers is a waste of money ,they will still get in,maybe they will give the police the key to the gate,then they allow them in with now damage next time......waste of space our frightened Bobby's !!!
At branksome ,they pulled off the low level barrier, that is crimminal damage is it not ! If i was to go and do that I would be arrested ,the police just stood and watched and told the public to allow access . Putting in new barriers is a waste of money ,they will still get in,maybe they will give the police the key to the gate,then they allow them in with now damage next time......waste of space our frightened Bobby's !!! Peroni
  • Score: 22

7:55am Fri 4 Apr 14

PUZZLED ONE says...

Jeff Williams
If these caravan dwellers want somewhere to stay there are dozens of caravan sites all over Dorset, why can't they use them?
Oh, I forgot, they would have to pay!
Jeff Williams If these caravan dwellers want somewhere to stay there are dozens of caravan sites all over Dorset, why can't they use them? Oh, I forgot, they would have to pay! PUZZLED ONE
  • Score: 37

8:17am Fri 4 Apr 14

rozmister says...

Jeff in Parkstone wrote:
And Jacqui Wilson and yourself et al are not in a 100% confrontational mind set already ?

Your whole language and mind set not 100% aggressive ? - Travellers all totally wrong.

All outlaws to be villified and confronted.

Not a word on communication and liaison with Travellers.

There is no open common land in Poole.

There are no transit sites.

Genuine Travellers who travel are left with no option when in Poole but to use recreation grounds.

These grounds are not the personal property of any group of residents.

The issue needs communication negotiation and agreement both sides.

But what are you people doing - gearing up for 100% confrontation.

Allow space for some caravans on a part of the Rec. Make it clear where Travellers are not to go. Provide refuse and toilet facilities and I suggest Mr Shuttle you will then avoid confrontation.

And as for being "afraid" of upsetting Travellers - what about fear of upsetting resident groups and residents such as yourself ? You are demanding your solution to the issue (no Travellers on any Recs in any circumstances) as much as they are demanding use of the Recs.

To use your aggressive language God help any residents who shows any concern for the wellfare and the rights of travelling people. We will be shouted down and no less villified wont we.

And you mock Human Rights .... well read your history my friend. Its littered with perseuction .... and conflict both sides feeling they are the victims. You think you are the victims of Travellers - they feel they are the victims of town people and authorities who wont provide transit sites let alone common land.

Its a problem. It needs a solution. But all your hotility is doing is firing the issue up worse and worse. Wouldn't surprise me if Traveller groups read all that goes in the media as in these postings and with social media end up targetting those Rec areas where resident are most hostile and aggressive.

You end up getting what you bring on yourselves. Far better leave it all to Poole Council and police. Leave it all alone and I suggest with council organisation in restricted Rec areas with refuse and toilets facilties problems will be far less all round.

Jeff Williams
Travellers are not left with no option. Why not book into a campsite or speak to a farmer outside of town about renting a field? These recreation fields belong to the community to enjoy they aren't there to act as free temporary accommodation for a minority group.
[quote][p][bold]Jeff in Parkstone[/bold] wrote: And Jacqui Wilson and yourself et al are not in a 100% confrontational mind set already ? Your whole language and mind set not 100% aggressive ? - Travellers all totally wrong. All outlaws to be villified and confronted. Not a word on communication and liaison with Travellers. There is no open common land in Poole. There are no transit sites. Genuine Travellers who travel are left with no option when in Poole but to use recreation grounds. These grounds are not the personal property of any group of residents. The issue needs communication negotiation and agreement both sides. But what are you people doing - gearing up for 100% confrontation. Allow space for some caravans on a part of the Rec. Make it clear where Travellers are not to go. Provide refuse and toilet facilities and I suggest Mr Shuttle you will then avoid confrontation. And as for being "afraid" of upsetting Travellers - what about fear of upsetting resident groups and residents such as yourself ? You are demanding your solution to the issue (no Travellers on any Recs in any circumstances) as much as they are demanding use of the Recs. To use your aggressive language God help any residents who shows any concern for the wellfare and the rights of travelling people. We will be shouted down and no less villified wont we. And you mock Human Rights .... well read your history my friend. Its littered with perseuction .... and conflict both sides feeling they are the victims. You think you are the victims of Travellers - they feel they are the victims of town people and authorities who wont provide transit sites let alone common land. Its a problem. It needs a solution. But all your hotility is doing is firing the issue up worse and worse. Wouldn't surprise me if Traveller groups read all that goes in the media as in these postings and with social media end up targetting those Rec areas where resident are most hostile and aggressive. You end up getting what you bring on yourselves. Far better leave it all to Poole Council and police. Leave it all alone and I suggest with council organisation in restricted Rec areas with refuse and toilets facilties problems will be far less all round. Jeff Williams[/p][/quote]Travellers are not left with no option. Why not book into a campsite or speak to a farmer outside of town about renting a field? These recreation fields belong to the community to enjoy they aren't there to act as free temporary accommodation for a minority group. rozmister
  • Score: 40

8:40am Fri 4 Apr 14

sea poole says...

Mr Williams, what you conveniently 'forget' to mention is that most of these 'villified' travellers will use council sites in the more clement weather and then return to their gargantuan homes later in the year when weather is usually less favourable. They're choosing a lifestyle that suits them for their convenience -it's not a real way of life.
I have a home, I have a caravan. When I choose to use the better weather to travel, I stop at properly-organised sites and pay for the privilege. So how does that make me different from selected 'travellers'?
1. I pay to park
2. I don't leave litter
3. I don't confront local residents
4. I pay my car taxes
Mr Williams, what you conveniently 'forget' to mention is that most of these 'villified' travellers will use council sites in the more clement weather and then return to their gargantuan homes later in the year when weather is usually less favourable. They're choosing a lifestyle that suits them for their convenience -it's not a real way of life. I have a home, I have a caravan. When I choose to use the better weather to travel, I stop at properly-organised sites and pay for the privilege. So how does that make me different from selected 'travellers'? 1. I pay to park 2. I don't leave litter 3. I don't confront local residents 4. I pay my car taxes sea poole
  • Score: 40

8:44am Fri 4 Apr 14

Hessenford says...

Jeff in Parkstone says........Allow space for some caravans on a part of the Rec. Make it clear where Travellers are not to go. Provide refuse and toilet facilities and I suggest Mr Shuttle you will then avoid confrontation.
.
I think you will find that travellers are already told where not to go but chose to ignore that advice.
Who pays for refuse and toilet facilities then, the tax payer, dont you think we pay enough for our services already without having to pay for a group of people who give nothing back to the locals except filth and trespass.
It about time the police and council stopped pussyfooting about with these irresponsible people and bulldozed their vehicles off any land they invade unlawfully.
Jeff in Parkstone says........Allow space for some caravans on a part of the Rec. Make it clear where Travellers are not to go. Provide refuse and toilet facilities and I suggest Mr Shuttle you will then avoid confrontation. . I think you will find that travellers are already told where not to go but chose to ignore that advice. Who pays for refuse and toilet facilities then, the tax payer, dont you think we pay enough for our services already without having to pay for a group of people who give nothing back to the locals except filth and trespass. It about time the police and council stopped pussyfooting about with these irresponsible people and bulldozed their vehicles off any land they invade unlawfully. Hessenford
  • Score: 26

8:53am Fri 4 Apr 14

boyerboy says...

Jeff in Parkstone wrote:
And Jacqui Wilson and yourself et al are not in a 100% confrontational mind set already ?

Your whole language and mind set not 100% aggressive ? - Travellers all totally wrong.

All outlaws to be villified and confronted.

Not a word on communication and liaison with Travellers.

There is no open common land in Poole.

There are no transit sites.

Genuine Travellers who travel are left with no option when in Poole but to use recreation grounds.

These grounds are not the personal property of any group of residents.

The issue needs communication negotiation and agreement both sides.

But what are you people doing - gearing up for 100% confrontation.

Allow space for some caravans on a part of the Rec. Make it clear where Travellers are not to go. Provide refuse and toilet facilities and I suggest Mr Shuttle you will then avoid confrontation.

And as for being "afraid" of upsetting Travellers - what about fear of upsetting resident groups and residents such as yourself ? You are demanding your solution to the issue (no Travellers on any Recs in any circumstances) as much as they are demanding use of the Recs.

To use your aggressive language God help any residents who shows any concern for the wellfare and the rights of travelling people. We will be shouted down and no less villified wont we.

And you mock Human Rights .... well read your history my friend. Its littered with perseuction .... and conflict both sides feeling they are the victims. You think you are the victims of Travellers - they feel they are the victims of town people and authorities who wont provide transit sites let alone common land.

Its a problem. It needs a solution. But all your hotility is doing is firing the issue up worse and worse. Wouldn't surprise me if Traveller groups read all that goes in the media as in these postings and with social media end up targetting those Rec areas where resident are most hostile and aggressive.

You end up getting what you bring on yourselves. Far better leave it all to Poole Council and police. Leave it all alone and I suggest with council organisation in restricted Rec areas with refuse and toilets facilties problems will be far less all round.

Jeff Williams
Could you provide us with your address please?

Then we can direct your friends to your home, I am sure I am not lone in wishing you a happy summer with your friends from across the water....they are not travellers of course merely misunderstood holiday makers out to earn a bob or two then go back to their own detached brick built homes for the winter, having avoided paying taxes for a further year...happy days.
[quote][p][bold]Jeff in Parkstone[/bold] wrote: And Jacqui Wilson and yourself et al are not in a 100% confrontational mind set already ? Your whole language and mind set not 100% aggressive ? - Travellers all totally wrong. All outlaws to be villified and confronted. Not a word on communication and liaison with Travellers. There is no open common land in Poole. There are no transit sites. Genuine Travellers who travel are left with no option when in Poole but to use recreation grounds. These grounds are not the personal property of any group of residents. The issue needs communication negotiation and agreement both sides. But what are you people doing - gearing up for 100% confrontation. Allow space for some caravans on a part of the Rec. Make it clear where Travellers are not to go. Provide refuse and toilet facilities and I suggest Mr Shuttle you will then avoid confrontation. And as for being "afraid" of upsetting Travellers - what about fear of upsetting resident groups and residents such as yourself ? You are demanding your solution to the issue (no Travellers on any Recs in any circumstances) as much as they are demanding use of the Recs. To use your aggressive language God help any residents who shows any concern for the wellfare and the rights of travelling people. We will be shouted down and no less villified wont we. And you mock Human Rights .... well read your history my friend. Its littered with perseuction .... and conflict both sides feeling they are the victims. You think you are the victims of Travellers - they feel they are the victims of town people and authorities who wont provide transit sites let alone common land. Its a problem. It needs a solution. But all your hotility is doing is firing the issue up worse and worse. Wouldn't surprise me if Traveller groups read all that goes in the media as in these postings and with social media end up targetting those Rec areas where resident are most hostile and aggressive. You end up getting what you bring on yourselves. Far better leave it all to Poole Council and police. Leave it all alone and I suggest with council organisation in restricted Rec areas with refuse and toilets facilties problems will be far less all round. Jeff Williams[/p][/quote]Could you provide us with your address please? Then we can direct your friends to your home, I am sure I am not lone in wishing you a happy summer with your friends from across the water....they are not travellers of course merely misunderstood holiday makers out to earn a bob or two then go back to their own detached brick built homes for the winter, having avoided paying taxes for a further year...happy days. boyerboy
  • Score: 29

9:26am Fri 4 Apr 14

bourne free says...

Don't employ them . | saw them put white lane marking paint down in Ashley Security and Woodlands social Club for cash last year !?
Don't employ them . | saw them put white lane marking paint down in Ashley Security and Woodlands social Club for cash last year !? bourne free
  • Score: 16

9:36am Fri 4 Apr 14

BarrHumbug says...

Plant a shrubbery!? Oh yeah why didn't I think of that, a shrubbery to a traveller is like garlic to a vampire hahahaha.

Its totally pointless you can put in as many concrete posts as you like but the council need vehicle access to maintain the parks and the travellers will just break in through there?
Plant a shrubbery!? Oh yeah why didn't I think of that, a shrubbery to a traveller is like garlic to a vampire hahahaha. Its totally pointless you can put in as many concrete posts as you like but the council need vehicle access to maintain the parks and the travellers will just break in through there? BarrHumbug
  • Score: 11

10:49am Fri 4 Apr 14

Jo__Go says...

Jeff Williams says...

"Genuine Travellers who travel are left with no option when in Poole but to use recreation grounds. "

So don't come to Poole! Or use camping grounds like the rest of the world.

It's not that difficult.
Jeff Williams says... "Genuine Travellers who travel are left with no option when in Poole but to use recreation grounds. " So don't come to Poole! Or use camping grounds like the rest of the world. It's not that difficult. Jo__Go
  • Score: 22

11:03am Fri 4 Apr 14

Jeff in Parkstone says...

"want somewhere to stay there are dozens of caravan sites all over Dorset, why can't they use them?
Oh, I forgot, they would have to pay!"

By tradition and custom over centuries Travellers pitch on open common land.

Land is free.

You only "pay" to use land when some "other" party owns the land - thence exercising charges.

With facilities charges would be right. But open common land - the Traveller tradition - the land is open and free to use by anyone.

************

"These recreation fields belong to the community to enjoy ..."

Which community is that ?

Who counts as community ?

Can I as a local resident go and pitch a tent on Branksome Rec if I want to ?

Could I organise a music festival with a few hundred then camping over-night ?

You're saying in particular a "minority group" of Travellers is not part of comunity.

Local town football club not part of community.

Travelling fair not part of community.

*************

"return to their gargantuan homes later in the year when weather is usually less favourable"

You know thsi for a fact ?

You've done all the research ?

Travelling in fair weather - why not ?

Seasonal work Itinerant (mobile) workers follow seasonal work. This has a long history in UK and world-wide.

If they are genuine Travellers then the caravan will be their only home. How hard is that for council/police to check out.

"3. I don't confront local residents"

And residents don''t confront Travellers ?

Take a look at the photos. Travellers are on the public recreation ground. Not in residents' front gardens.

Residents in the public street are confronting the travellers on the recreation ground.

The Travellers are not confronting the residents.

*******************

"Who pays for refuse and toilet facilities then ..."

Travellers should pay. I matter of nogotiation.

" ....give nothing back to the locals except filth and trespass."

We're all filthy. Check ou the filth litter packaging cans bottles fly-tips dumped in and around Ashley Road every day.

Check out how our homes are when-ever (at Christmas) refuse collection has fallen apart.

Provide litter skips and that problem is then dealt with.

Trespass ?

What about displacement.

Loss of all public common land in our borough and throughout much of the country.

Its okay for instance for Richard Drax MP to own 7,000 acres for himself and his family near Wimborne - and another several thousand similar private family landed estates in the country - but we can't leave open a few hundred acres in or near towns for open public use.

And so it is Travellers and residents end up fighting over what land we have left whilst the bigger picture - why there is no common land left in ths country - is completely lost from sight.

Go and tour Europe all counties from France to Spain to Greece - go to Canada, Australia, New Zealbnd, or the USA - you will not find a more land-locked country in Western World than England.

Why millions flooded out of England from 16th century onwards - to get land.

*************
"Could you provide us with your address please? Then we can direct your friends to your home

At least I write in my name - not hiding behind a pseudonym.

And the issue Boyerboy is not befriending anyone. It is saying we should have and must provide Transit Sites. Better still we should have a dozen acres of open common land in our borough and all boroughs.

We would then not have this problem confrontation between Travellers and residents would we.

Jeff Williams
"want somewhere to stay there are dozens of caravan sites all over Dorset, why can't they use them? Oh, I forgot, they would have to pay!" By tradition and custom over centuries Travellers pitch on open common land. Land is free. You only "pay" to use land when some "other" party owns the land - thence exercising charges. With facilities charges would be right. But open common land - the Traveller tradition - the land is open and free to use by anyone. ************ "These recreation fields belong to the community to enjoy ..." Which community is that ? Who counts as community ? Can I as a local resident go and pitch a tent on Branksome Rec if I want to ? Could I organise a music festival with a few hundred then camping over-night ? You're saying in particular a "minority group" of Travellers is not part of comunity. Local town football club not part of community. Travelling fair not part of community. ************* "return to their gargantuan homes later in the year when weather is usually less favourable" You know thsi for a fact ? You've done all the research ? Travelling in fair weather - why not ? Seasonal work Itinerant (mobile) workers follow seasonal work. This has a long history in UK and world-wide. If they are genuine Travellers then the caravan will be their only home. How hard is that for council/police to check out. "3. I don't confront local residents" And residents don''t confront Travellers ? Take a look at the photos. Travellers are on the public recreation ground. Not in residents' front gardens. Residents in the public street are confronting the travellers on the recreation ground. The Travellers are not confronting the residents. ******************* "Who pays for refuse and toilet facilities then ..." Travellers should pay. I matter of nogotiation. " ....give nothing back to the locals except filth and trespass." We're all filthy. Check ou the filth litter packaging cans bottles fly-tips dumped in and around Ashley Road every day. Check out how our homes are when-ever (at Christmas) refuse collection has fallen apart. Provide litter skips and that problem is then dealt with. Trespass ? What about displacement. Loss of all public common land in our borough and throughout much of the country. Its okay for instance for Richard Drax MP to own 7,000 acres for himself and his family near Wimborne - and another several thousand similar private family landed estates in the country - but we can't leave open a few hundred acres in or near towns for open public use. And so it is Travellers and residents end up fighting over what land we have left whilst the bigger picture - why there is no common land left in ths country - is completely lost from sight. Go and tour Europe all counties from France to Spain to Greece - go to Canada, Australia, New Zealbnd, or the USA - you will not find a more land-locked country in Western World than England. Why millions flooded out of England from 16th century onwards - to get land. ************* "Could you provide us with your address please? Then we can direct your friends to your home At least I write in my name - not hiding behind a pseudonym. And the issue Boyerboy is not befriending anyone. It is saying we should have and must provide Transit Sites. Better still we should have a dozen acres of open common land in our borough and all boroughs. We would then not have this problem confrontation between Travellers and residents would we. Jeff Williams Jeff in Parkstone
  • Score: -20

11:15am Fri 4 Apr 14

Carolyn43 says...

I agree with a lot of what you say Jeff, especially that people are ready to confront - and no travellers have appeared yet. What a lot of wasted emotion if they pitch up elsewhere and not in Poole.
I agree with a lot of what you say Jeff, especially that people are ready to confront - and no travellers have appeared yet. What a lot of wasted emotion if they pitch up elsewhere and not in Poole. Carolyn43
  • Score: -19

11:23am Fri 4 Apr 14

PUZZLED ONE says...

Jeff Williams
There is lots of land where caravans can be pitched - the parcels of land are called caravan sites. Please tell us all why the 'travellers' cannot (or will not) use these sites rather than preferring to park on public land,
Jeff Williams There is lots of land where caravans can be pitched - the parcels of land are called caravan sites. Please tell us all why the 'travellers' cannot (or will not) use these sites rather than preferring to park on public land, PUZZLED ONE
  • Score: 20

12:27pm Fri 4 Apr 14

Bob49 says...

Little will change as long as councils continue with their policy of containment (and acceptance). this means they see it as better that these tresspassers are better left where they are for a week rather than the authorities and police taking the necessary action.

Maybe the Daily Echo could ask if any of these folk are claiming work related benefits whilst here - and whether all vehicles are checked for insurance and tax.

Time for the hand wringing to stop.
Little will change as long as councils continue with their policy of containment (and acceptance). this means they see it as better that these tresspassers are better left where they are for a week rather than the authorities and police taking the necessary action. Maybe the Daily Echo could ask if any of these folk are claiming work related benefits whilst here - and whether all vehicles are checked for insurance and tax. Time for the hand wringing to stop. Bob49
  • Score: 12

12:32pm Fri 4 Apr 14

muscliffman says...

This is about the detail again, not the source of the problem,- namely the 'liberal' brigades past success in achieving ethnic recognition for a group of people following a lifestyle not even accepted in their home Country.

However the idea of any form of 'lock down' in Poole or Bournemouth will hit the same base problem, because our Authorities have demonstrated time and again how they become paralysed with a mix of 'liberalism', professional apathy and fear whenever 'travellers' turn up - and it matters not how many laws, gates or barriers are broken.

Where there is a will.....unfortunate
ly there is not.
This is about the detail again, not the source of the problem,- namely the 'liberal' brigades past success in achieving ethnic recognition for a group of people following a lifestyle not even accepted in their home Country. However the idea of any form of 'lock down' in Poole or Bournemouth will hit the same base problem, because our Authorities have demonstrated time and again how they become paralysed with a mix of 'liberalism', professional apathy and fear whenever 'travellers' turn up - and it matters not how many laws, gates or barriers are broken. Where there is a will.....unfortunate ly there is not. muscliffman
  • Score: 13

1:05pm Fri 4 Apr 14

Marty Caine UKIP says...

Apparently the problem is the law and it needs changing to give the police greater powers to evict the travellers from places like Branksome Rec, Baiter, Turlin Rec, etc. Unfortunately our esteemed member of parliament Robert Syms is more concerned about helping out Bournemouth residents than he is in sorting out the problems for his own constituents in Poole. In the meantime it would certainly make sense to secure the known sites better than what they have been in the past.
Apparently the problem is the law and it needs changing to give the police greater powers to evict the travellers from places like Branksome Rec, Baiter, Turlin Rec, etc. Unfortunately our esteemed member of parliament Robert Syms is more concerned about helping out Bournemouth residents than he is in sorting out the problems for his own constituents in Poole. In the meantime it would certainly make sense to secure the known sites better than what they have been in the past. Marty Caine UKIP
  • Score: 12

1:14pm Fri 4 Apr 14

RM says...

Jeff in Parkstone wrote:
And Jacqui Wilson and yourself et al are not in a 100% confrontational mind set already ?

Your whole language and mind set not 100% aggressive ? - Travellers all totally wrong.

All outlaws to be villified and confronted.

Not a word on communication and liaison with Travellers.

There is no open common land in Poole.

There are no transit sites.

Genuine Travellers who travel are left with no option when in Poole but to use recreation grounds.

These grounds are not the personal property of any group of residents.

The issue needs communication negotiation and agreement both sides.

But what are you people doing - gearing up for 100% confrontation.

Allow space for some caravans on a part of the Rec. Make it clear where Travellers are not to go. Provide refuse and toilet facilities and I suggest Mr Shuttle you will then avoid confrontation.

And as for being "afraid" of upsetting Travellers - what about fear of upsetting resident groups and residents such as yourself ? You are demanding your solution to the issue (no Travellers on any Recs in any circumstances) as much as they are demanding use of the Recs.

To use your aggressive language God help any residents who shows any concern for the wellfare and the rights of travelling people. We will be shouted down and no less villified wont we.

And you mock Human Rights .... well read your history my friend. Its littered with perseuction .... and conflict both sides feeling they are the victims. You think you are the victims of Travellers - they feel they are the victims of town people and authorities who wont provide transit sites let alone common land.

Its a problem. It needs a solution. But all your hotility is doing is firing the issue up worse and worse. Wouldn't surprise me if Traveller groups read all that goes in the media as in these postings and with social media end up targetting those Rec areas where resident are most hostile and aggressive.

You end up getting what you bring on yourselves. Far better leave it all to Poole Council and police. Leave it all alone and I suggest with council organisation in restricted Rec areas with refuse and toilets facilties problems will be far less all round.

Jeff Williams
Invite them to come & park on Jubilee Road car park as you live on Jubilee Road then Mr Williams if you sympathise with the travellers so much. That will be putting your money where your mouth is - leading by example instead of criticising those of us who don't share your views. The public toilets can be reopened for them so that they've got access to facilities & all the shops/pubs/cafes are within walking distance.
[quote][p][bold]Jeff in Parkstone[/bold] wrote: And Jacqui Wilson and yourself et al are not in a 100% confrontational mind set already ? Your whole language and mind set not 100% aggressive ? - Travellers all totally wrong. All outlaws to be villified and confronted. Not a word on communication and liaison with Travellers. There is no open common land in Poole. There are no transit sites. Genuine Travellers who travel are left with no option when in Poole but to use recreation grounds. These grounds are not the personal property of any group of residents. The issue needs communication negotiation and agreement both sides. But what are you people doing - gearing up for 100% confrontation. Allow space for some caravans on a part of the Rec. Make it clear where Travellers are not to go. Provide refuse and toilet facilities and I suggest Mr Shuttle you will then avoid confrontation. And as for being "afraid" of upsetting Travellers - what about fear of upsetting resident groups and residents such as yourself ? You are demanding your solution to the issue (no Travellers on any Recs in any circumstances) as much as they are demanding use of the Recs. To use your aggressive language God help any residents who shows any concern for the wellfare and the rights of travelling people. We will be shouted down and no less villified wont we. And you mock Human Rights .... well read your history my friend. Its littered with perseuction .... and conflict both sides feeling they are the victims. You think you are the victims of Travellers - they feel they are the victims of town people and authorities who wont provide transit sites let alone common land. Its a problem. It needs a solution. But all your hotility is doing is firing the issue up worse and worse. Wouldn't surprise me if Traveller groups read all that goes in the media as in these postings and with social media end up targetting those Rec areas where resident are most hostile and aggressive. You end up getting what you bring on yourselves. Far better leave it all to Poole Council and police. Leave it all alone and I suggest with council organisation in restricted Rec areas with refuse and toilets facilties problems will be far less all round. Jeff Williams[/p][/quote]Invite them to come & park on Jubilee Road car park as you live on Jubilee Road then Mr Williams if you sympathise with the travellers so much. That will be putting your money where your mouth is - leading by example instead of criticising those of us who don't share your views. The public toilets can be reopened for them so that they've got access to facilities & all the shops/pubs/cafes are within walking distance. RM
  • Score: 13

1:26pm Fri 4 Apr 14

muscliffman says...

Marty Caine UKIP wrote:
Apparently the problem is the law and it needs changing to give the police greater powers to evict the travellers from places like Branksome Rec, Baiter, Turlin Rec, etc. Unfortunately our esteemed member of parliament Robert Syms is more concerned about helping out Bournemouth residents than he is in sorting out the problems for his own constituents in Poole. In the meantime it would certainly make sense to secure the known sites better than what they have been in the past.
But how much of a problem really are the existing laws?

It has been pointed out in these forums before - apparently quite learnedly - that there are plenty of rules in place which could be invoked to deal with 'traveller' incursions.

Yet it appears even the most simple motoring regulations (which we would unhesitatingly be called to answer for) are breached by 'travellers' in full view of the Police - who then do absolutely nothing about it.

I return to my point; Where there is a will.......
[quote][p][bold]Marty Caine UKIP[/bold] wrote: Apparently the problem is the law and it needs changing to give the police greater powers to evict the travellers from places like Branksome Rec, Baiter, Turlin Rec, etc. Unfortunately our esteemed member of parliament Robert Syms is more concerned about helping out Bournemouth residents than he is in sorting out the problems for his own constituents in Poole. In the meantime it would certainly make sense to secure the known sites better than what they have been in the past.[/p][/quote]But how much of a problem really are the existing laws? It has been pointed out in these forums before - apparently quite learnedly - that there are plenty of rules in place which could be invoked to deal with 'traveller' incursions. Yet it appears even the most simple motoring regulations (which we would unhesitatingly be called to answer for) are breached by 'travellers' in full view of the Police - who then do absolutely nothing about it. I return to my point; Where there is a will....... muscliffman
  • Score: 14

4:15pm Fri 4 Apr 14

canfordcherry says...

It's good to see the Council in Poole are using money to replace dropped kerb stones which have sunk a little as residents have parked on drives.
Wouldn't the money have been better used to help this forth coming situation as I can see already the quote 'lack of cash, sorry can't do anything to Verity Park this year'.
(Replace Verity Park with your local free camp sight)
It's good to see the Council in Poole are using money to replace dropped kerb stones which have sunk a little as residents have parked on drives. Wouldn't the money have been better used to help this forth coming situation as I can see already the quote 'lack of cash, sorry can't do anything to Verity Park this year'. (Replace Verity Park with your local free camp sight) canfordcherry
  • Score: 5

5:12pm Fri 4 Apr 14

mia400 says...

after being spat on, sworn at, and treated like dirt by the travelers last year whilst at work and seen other staff abused and harassed i now have no respect for them and can only hope the council get off their fat **** and get the places protected, if you want to come here pay your way andl earn some manners !! simple !!
after being spat on, sworn at, and treated like dirt by the travelers last year whilst at work and seen other staff abused and harassed i now have no respect for them and can only hope the council get off their fat **** and get the places protected, if you want to come here pay your way andl earn some manners !! simple !! mia400
  • Score: 14

5:15pm Fri 4 Apr 14

ShuttleX says...

@Jeff Williams,

I will just have to disagree with you Mr Williams. We both have different points of view, and I doubt if we would ever agree.
@Jeff Williams, I will just have to disagree with you Mr Williams. We both have different points of view, and I doubt if we would ever agree. ShuttleX
  • Score: 2

5:41pm Fri 4 Apr 14

RM says...

RM wrote:
Jeff in Parkstone wrote:
And Jacqui Wilson and yourself et al are not in a 100% confrontational mind set already ?

Your whole language and mind set not 100% aggressive ? - Travellers all totally wrong.

All outlaws to be villified and confronted.

Not a word on communication and liaison with Travellers.

There is no open common land in Poole.

There are no transit sites.

Genuine Travellers who travel are left with no option when in Poole but to use recreation grounds.

These grounds are not the personal property of any group of residents.

The issue needs communication negotiation and agreement both sides.

But what are you people doing - gearing up for 100% confrontation.

Allow space for some caravans on a part of the Rec. Make it clear where Travellers are not to go. Provide refuse and toilet facilities and I suggest Mr Shuttle you will then avoid confrontation.

And as for being "afraid" of upsetting Travellers - what about fear of upsetting resident groups and residents such as yourself ? You are demanding your solution to the issue (no Travellers on any Recs in any circumstances) as much as they are demanding use of the Recs.

To use your aggressive language God help any residents who shows any concern for the wellfare and the rights of travelling people. We will be shouted down and no less villified wont we.

And you mock Human Rights .... well read your history my friend. Its littered with perseuction .... and conflict both sides feeling they are the victims. You think you are the victims of Travellers - they feel they are the victims of town people and authorities who wont provide transit sites let alone common land.

Its a problem. It needs a solution. But all your hotility is doing is firing the issue up worse and worse. Wouldn't surprise me if Traveller groups read all that goes in the media as in these postings and with social media end up targetting those Rec areas where resident are most hostile and aggressive.

You end up getting what you bring on yourselves. Far better leave it all to Poole Council and police. Leave it all alone and I suggest with council organisation in restricted Rec areas with refuse and toilets facilties problems will be far less all round.

Jeff Williams
Invite them to come & park on Jubilee Road car park as you live on Jubilee Road then Mr Williams if you sympathise with the travellers so much. That will be putting your money where your mouth is - leading by example instead of criticising those of us who don't share your views. The public toilets can be reopened for them so that they've got access to facilities & all the shops/pubs/cafes are within walking distance.
Funny how Mr Williams, after his continual spirited defences of the rights of the travellers & statements on how the residents must provide for them suddenly goes terribly quiet & disappears anytime the subject of him welcoming them to Jubilee Road comes up. I've suggested on previous articles that he could do that - and unfailingly, he disappears. Do as I say, not as I do?
[quote][p][bold]RM[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Jeff in Parkstone[/bold] wrote: And Jacqui Wilson and yourself et al are not in a 100% confrontational mind set already ? Your whole language and mind set not 100% aggressive ? - Travellers all totally wrong. All outlaws to be villified and confronted. Not a word on communication and liaison with Travellers. There is no open common land in Poole. There are no transit sites. Genuine Travellers who travel are left with no option when in Poole but to use recreation grounds. These grounds are not the personal property of any group of residents. The issue needs communication negotiation and agreement both sides. But what are you people doing - gearing up for 100% confrontation. Allow space for some caravans on a part of the Rec. Make it clear where Travellers are not to go. Provide refuse and toilet facilities and I suggest Mr Shuttle you will then avoid confrontation. And as for being "afraid" of upsetting Travellers - what about fear of upsetting resident groups and residents such as yourself ? You are demanding your solution to the issue (no Travellers on any Recs in any circumstances) as much as they are demanding use of the Recs. To use your aggressive language God help any residents who shows any concern for the wellfare and the rights of travelling people. We will be shouted down and no less villified wont we. And you mock Human Rights .... well read your history my friend. Its littered with perseuction .... and conflict both sides feeling they are the victims. You think you are the victims of Travellers - they feel they are the victims of town people and authorities who wont provide transit sites let alone common land. Its a problem. It needs a solution. But all your hotility is doing is firing the issue up worse and worse. Wouldn't surprise me if Traveller groups read all that goes in the media as in these postings and with social media end up targetting those Rec areas where resident are most hostile and aggressive. You end up getting what you bring on yourselves. Far better leave it all to Poole Council and police. Leave it all alone and I suggest with council organisation in restricted Rec areas with refuse and toilets facilties problems will be far less all round. Jeff Williams[/p][/quote]Invite them to come & park on Jubilee Road car park as you live on Jubilee Road then Mr Williams if you sympathise with the travellers so much. That will be putting your money where your mouth is - leading by example instead of criticising those of us who don't share your views. The public toilets can be reopened for them so that they've got access to facilities & all the shops/pubs/cafes are within walking distance.[/p][/quote]Funny how Mr Williams, after his continual spirited defences of the rights of the travellers & statements on how the residents must provide for them suddenly goes terribly quiet & disappears anytime the subject of him welcoming them to Jubilee Road comes up. I've suggested on previous articles that he could do that - and unfailingly, he disappears. Do as I say, not as I do? RM
  • Score: 6

6:15pm Fri 4 Apr 14

muscliffman says...

RM wrote:
RM wrote:
Jeff in Parkstone wrote:
And Jacqui Wilson and yourself et al are not in a 100% confrontational mind set already ?

Your whole language and mind set not 100% aggressive ? - Travellers all totally wrong.

All outlaws to be villified and confronted.

Not a word on communication and liaison with Travellers.

There is no open common land in Poole.

There are no transit sites.

Genuine Travellers who travel are left with no option when in Poole but to use recreation grounds.

These grounds are not the personal property of any group of residents.

The issue needs communication negotiation and agreement both sides.

But what are you people doing - gearing up for 100% confrontation.

Allow space for some caravans on a part of the Rec. Make it clear where Travellers are not to go. Provide refuse and toilet facilities and I suggest Mr Shuttle you will then avoid confrontation.

And as for being "afraid" of upsetting Travellers - what about fear of upsetting resident groups and residents such as yourself ? You are demanding your solution to the issue (no Travellers on any Recs in any circumstances) as much as they are demanding use of the Recs.

To use your aggressive language God help any residents who shows any concern for the wellfare and the rights of travelling people. We will be shouted down and no less villified wont we.

And you mock Human Rights .... well read your history my friend. Its littered with perseuction .... and conflict both sides feeling they are the victims. You think you are the victims of Travellers - they feel they are the victims of town people and authorities who wont provide transit sites let alone common land.

Its a problem. It needs a solution. But all your hotility is doing is firing the issue up worse and worse. Wouldn't surprise me if Traveller groups read all that goes in the media as in these postings and with social media end up targetting those Rec areas where resident are most hostile and aggressive.

You end up getting what you bring on yourselves. Far better leave it all to Poole Council and police. Leave it all alone and I suggest with council organisation in restricted Rec areas with refuse and toilets facilties problems will be far less all round.

Jeff Williams
Invite them to come & park on Jubilee Road car park as you live on Jubilee Road then Mr Williams if you sympathise with the travellers so much. That will be putting your money where your mouth is - leading by example instead of criticising those of us who don't share your views. The public toilets can be reopened for them so that they've got access to facilities & all the shops/pubs/cafes are within walking distance.
Funny how Mr Williams, after his continual spirited defences of the rights of the travellers & statements on how the residents must provide for them suddenly goes terribly quiet & disappears anytime the subject of him welcoming them to Jubilee Road comes up. I've suggested on previous articles that he could do that - and unfailingly, he disappears. Do as I say, not as I do?
"unfailingly, he disappears"....and on the topic of 'travellers', I thought you were referring to our PCC for a moment!
[quote][p][bold]RM[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]RM[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Jeff in Parkstone[/bold] wrote: And Jacqui Wilson and yourself et al are not in a 100% confrontational mind set already ? Your whole language and mind set not 100% aggressive ? - Travellers all totally wrong. All outlaws to be villified and confronted. Not a word on communication and liaison with Travellers. There is no open common land in Poole. There are no transit sites. Genuine Travellers who travel are left with no option when in Poole but to use recreation grounds. These grounds are not the personal property of any group of residents. The issue needs communication negotiation and agreement both sides. But what are you people doing - gearing up for 100% confrontation. Allow space for some caravans on a part of the Rec. Make it clear where Travellers are not to go. Provide refuse and toilet facilities and I suggest Mr Shuttle you will then avoid confrontation. And as for being "afraid" of upsetting Travellers - what about fear of upsetting resident groups and residents such as yourself ? You are demanding your solution to the issue (no Travellers on any Recs in any circumstances) as much as they are demanding use of the Recs. To use your aggressive language God help any residents who shows any concern for the wellfare and the rights of travelling people. We will be shouted down and no less villified wont we. And you mock Human Rights .... well read your history my friend. Its littered with perseuction .... and conflict both sides feeling they are the victims. You think you are the victims of Travellers - they feel they are the victims of town people and authorities who wont provide transit sites let alone common land. Its a problem. It needs a solution. But all your hotility is doing is firing the issue up worse and worse. Wouldn't surprise me if Traveller groups read all that goes in the media as in these postings and with social media end up targetting those Rec areas where resident are most hostile and aggressive. You end up getting what you bring on yourselves. Far better leave it all to Poole Council and police. Leave it all alone and I suggest with council organisation in restricted Rec areas with refuse and toilets facilties problems will be far less all round. Jeff Williams[/p][/quote]Invite them to come & park on Jubilee Road car park as you live on Jubilee Road then Mr Williams if you sympathise with the travellers so much. That will be putting your money where your mouth is - leading by example instead of criticising those of us who don't share your views. The public toilets can be reopened for them so that they've got access to facilities & all the shops/pubs/cafes are within walking distance.[/p][/quote]Funny how Mr Williams, after his continual spirited defences of the rights of the travellers & statements on how the residents must provide for them suddenly goes terribly quiet & disappears anytime the subject of him welcoming them to Jubilee Road comes up. I've suggested on previous articles that he could do that - and unfailingly, he disappears. Do as I say, not as I do?[/p][/quote]"unfailingly, he disappears"....and on the topic of 'travellers', I thought you were referring to our PCC for a moment! muscliffman
  • Score: 7

6:49pm Fri 4 Apr 14

smhinto says...

I would have thought that Napalm and a Rocket Propelled Grenade would be a better defence against this vermin.
I would have thought that Napalm and a Rocket Propelled Grenade would be a better defence against this vermin. smhinto
  • Score: 1

6:52pm Fri 4 Apr 14

we-shall-see says...

Jeff Williams says: It is saying we should have and must provide Transit Sites. Better still we should have a dozen acres of open common land in our borough and all boroughs.

Please explain why WE as a town SHOULD have land set aside for travellers - when they do not even get that in their own home country?

As has been said time and again - there is plenty of land to park up if they want to pay the fees - but of course they don't - and never will if pathetic councils and weak police forces do not stand up to these bullies and use the powers that are there to remove them from parks and recreation grounds etc.

Parks are NOT common land, they are owned by the council. There is very little if any actual common land in this country since the medieval tithes act, so travellers are simply flouting the laws - and getting away with it.

Our council can do more and our police force can certainly do more, but while they ****-foot around, dancing to the tune of the travellers, we will continue to get this unwanted harassment.

If the travellers are made to feel unwelcome in the town, perhaps they will stay away, but somehow I doubt it when they are provided with toilets and rubbish collection. We residents don't even get THAT and we pay for them to have the honour!

Talk about hypocrites pandering to the great unwashed :o/
Jeff Williams says: It is saying we should have and must provide Transit Sites. Better still we should have a dozen acres of open common land in our borough and all boroughs. Please explain why WE as a town SHOULD have land set aside for travellers - when they do not even get that in their own home country? As has been said time and again - there is plenty of land to park up if they want to pay the fees - but of course they don't - and never will if pathetic councils and weak police forces do not stand up to these bullies and use the powers that are there to remove them from parks and recreation grounds etc. Parks are NOT common land, they are owned by the council. There is very little if any actual common land in this country since the medieval tithes act, so travellers are simply flouting the laws - and getting away with it. Our council can do more and our police force can certainly do more, but while they ****-foot around, dancing to the tune of the travellers, we will continue to get this unwanted harassment. If the travellers are made to feel unwelcome in the town, perhaps they will stay away, but somehow I doubt it when they are provided with toilets and rubbish collection. We residents don't even get THAT and we pay for them to have the honour! Talk about hypocrites pandering to the great unwashed :o/ we-shall-see
  • Score: 7

10:37pm Fri 4 Apr 14

Bob49 says...

muscliffman wrote:
This is about the detail again, not the source of the problem,- namely the 'liberal' brigades past success in achieving ethnic recognition for a group of people following a lifestyle not even accepted in their home Country.

However the idea of any form of 'lock down' in Poole or Bournemouth will hit the same base problem, because our Authorities have demonstrated time and again how they become paralysed with a mix of 'liberalism', professional apathy and fear whenever 'travellers' turn up - and it matters not how many laws, gates or barriers are broken.

Where there is a will.....unfortunate

ly there is not.
oh dear' just when you think there is consensus of reasoned thpought up pops another Daily Mail style ill informed nonsense.

These people were ruled as an ethnic group by a decision made in a British court by a British judge, so why not stop spouting this tosh about 'liberalism'.

iIf you don't like the idea of free thought, tolerance and acceptance why don't you go live in some country that shares your views on intolerance and censorship.

As to the rest of us we suffer from these regular incursions and tresspass, amongst many other activities'. What it needs to stop this annual 'pillage' is for locals to know why this happens and what can be done to stop it - once and for all. And that begins by having information that is accurate - not your brand of Daily Mail style bo llox that adds nothing to the debate bar demonstrating the dangers of overdosing on lies and misinformation.

So why not actually look up what that ruling was, who made and then ask your elected representative why no government has challenged it.
[quote][p][bold]muscliffman[/bold] wrote: This is about the detail again, not the source of the problem,- namely the 'liberal' brigades past success in achieving ethnic recognition for a group of people following a lifestyle not even accepted in their home Country. However the idea of any form of 'lock down' in Poole or Bournemouth will hit the same base problem, because our Authorities have demonstrated time and again how they become paralysed with a mix of 'liberalism', professional apathy and fear whenever 'travellers' turn up - and it matters not how many laws, gates or barriers are broken. Where there is a will.....unfortunate ly there is not.[/p][/quote]oh dear' just when you think there is consensus of reasoned thpought up pops another Daily Mail style ill informed nonsense. These people were ruled as an ethnic group by a decision made in a British court by a British judge, so why not stop spouting this tosh about 'liberalism'. iIf you don't like the idea of free thought, tolerance and acceptance why don't you go live in some country that shares your views on intolerance and censorship. As to the rest of us we suffer from these regular incursions and tresspass, amongst many other activities'. What it needs to stop this annual 'pillage' is for locals to know why this happens and what can be done to stop it - once and for all. And that begins by having information that is accurate - not your brand of Daily Mail style bo llox that adds nothing to the debate bar demonstrating the dangers of overdosing on lies and misinformation. So why not actually look up what that ruling was, who made and then ask your elected representative why no government has challenged it. Bob49
  • Score: -4

7:17am Sat 5 Apr 14

Jeff in Parkstone says...

RM - "Invite them to come & park on Jubilee Road car park as you live on Jubilee Road then Mr Williams if you sympathise with the travellers so much. That will be putting your money where your mouth is - leading by example instead of criticising those of us who don't share your views. The public toilets can be reopened for them so that they've got access to facilities & all the shops/pubs/cafes are within walking distance."

The case I have put foward time and again is **not personal** **not condemning those that oppose Travellers on the Recs** it is that there is ***no public common land*** and Poole is one of few LAs that have never **provided Transit Sites**

RM "Funny how Mr Williams, after his continual spirited defences of the rights of the travellers & statements on how the residents must provide for them suddenly goes terribly quiet & disappears anytime the subject of him welcoming them to Jubilee Road comes up ..."

And likewise RM - all you are doing is **personalising the issue** - personally attacking me - as most of comments above attack and condemn Travellers without any interest in why they come to Recs ...

I do criticise myself attitudes condemning and pretty much villifying Travellers as **always in the wrong** which in my book is or borders on persecution - but I don't condemn those who oppose as having no right to their view.

What ever way you look at this you play into the hands of the worst of any Travellers if you do not have transit sites and you hype up all the condeming language. It's all confrontation - condeming any group or anyone without making some effort to understand the problem and how it can be solved ...

As for your comment Mr Williams "suddenly goes terribly quiet & disappears ...." that's a bit rich don't you think RM hding behind a secretive pseuodym - not even the courage to speak up in your own name .....

As for the Recs themselves the issue clearly does affect those who live nearest to these grounds. No-one wants huge changes on their doorstep making their life a mysery - but then at Branksome Rec we had the fun-fair banned years ago (which hundeds visted evey day), we've had PTFC totally opposed - not a grain of negotiation on that one - and in all the years not one initative to get impoved sports facilities onto the Rec.

So yes I do ask what exactly does Branksome West Residents Association (an very expansive title for the recreation ground residents) actually stand for except baning anything they don't like from the Rec ?

That is in the end all we ever hear - what is to be banned. Never any iniatives for improvements - one hue recreation ground lying empty 90% of the week unused - accept dog walkers ....

Jeff Williams
RM - "Invite them to come & park on Jubilee Road car park as you live on Jubilee Road then Mr Williams if you sympathise with the travellers so much. That will be putting your money where your mouth is - leading by example instead of criticising those of us who don't share your views. The public toilets can be reopened for them so that they've got access to facilities & all the shops/pubs/cafes are within walking distance." The case I have put foward time and again is **not personal** **not condemning those that oppose Travellers on the Recs** it is that there is ***no public common land*** and Poole is one of few LAs that have never **provided Transit Sites** RM "Funny how Mr Williams, after his continual spirited defences of the rights of the travellers & statements on how the residents must provide for them suddenly goes terribly quiet & disappears anytime the subject of him welcoming them to Jubilee Road comes up ..." And likewise RM - all you are doing is **personalising the issue** - personally attacking me - as most of comments above attack and condemn Travellers without any interest in why they come to Recs ... I do criticise myself attitudes condemning and pretty much villifying Travellers as **always in the wrong** which in my book is or borders on persecution - but I don't condemn those who oppose as having no right to their view. What ever way you look at this you play into the hands of the worst of any Travellers if you do not have transit sites and you hype up all the condeming language. It's all confrontation - condeming any group or anyone without making some effort to understand the problem and how it can be solved ... As for your comment Mr Williams "suddenly goes terribly quiet & disappears ...." that's a bit rich don't you think RM hding behind a secretive pseuodym - not even the courage to speak up in your own name ..... As for the Recs themselves the issue clearly does affect those who live nearest to these grounds. No-one wants huge changes on their doorstep making their life a mysery - but then at Branksome Rec we had the fun-fair banned years ago (which hundeds visted evey day), we've had PTFC totally opposed - not a grain of negotiation on that one - and in all the years not one initative to get impoved sports facilities onto the Rec. So yes I do ask what exactly does Branksome West Residents Association (an very expansive title for the recreation ground residents) actually stand for except baning anything they don't like from the Rec ? That is in the end all we ever hear - what is to be banned. Never any iniatives for improvements - one hue recreation ground lying empty 90% of the week unused - accept dog walkers .... Jeff Williams Jeff in Parkstone
  • Score: 1

7:45am Sat 5 Apr 14

Jeff in Parkstone says...

We-shall-see "Jeff Williams says: It is saying we should have and must provide Transit Sites. Better still we should have a dozen acres of open common land in our borough and all boroughs.

Please explain why WE as a town SHOULD have land set aside for travellers - when they do not even get that in their own home country?"

We used to have hundreds of thouands of acres of common land in our country - the public commons.

Land that any of us including Travellers could stop on.

But near all this common land has been lost over the years to Enclosure Acts.

Check out a Short History of Enclosures .... http://www.thelandma
gazine.org.uk/articl
es/short-history-enc
losure-britain

Travellers or any of us cannnot stop and pitch on National Trust land.

Cannot stop and ptich on Forestry Commisison Land.

Cannot stop and pitch on National Trust land.

Cannot stop and pitch on any Crown land - for instance beaches.

Cannot stop and pich on Local Authority Land.

And of course not on any private land.

There is no-where left for Travellers - or any of us - to stop and pitch a caravan or a tent.

All that is left as many point to is private paying caravan parks.

And that runs completely counter to the Traveller tradition.

In the end England of all countries the most bought up fenced owned landed country in the western world

Its not "We-shall-see" a matter of land being "set side" for Travllers (or anyone) - its a matter of millions of aces of public land having been taken out of public use. Bought up by private owners.

And you might compare that with for instance Richard Drax MP near Wimbounre Charbrough House 7,000 acres his land for his family. And similarly several thousand more landed estates thoughout UK.

Yet in all Dorset I doubt if we have more than a couple of acres of open public common land for the general public.

And that in my view is the issue. Why Travellers travelling though Poole and other towns are driven onto recreation grounds. Travellers and residents then in conflcit - becasue we have no public common land left in the country.

Jeff Williams
We-shall-see "Jeff Williams says: It is saying we should have and must provide Transit Sites. Better still we should have a dozen acres of open common land in our borough and all boroughs. Please explain why WE as a town SHOULD have land set aside for travellers - when they do not even get that in their own home country?" We used to have hundreds of thouands of acres of common land in our country - the public commons. Land that any of us including Travellers could stop on. But near all this common land has been lost over the years to Enclosure Acts. Check out a Short History of Enclosures .... http://www.thelandma gazine.org.uk/articl es/short-history-enc losure-britain Travellers or any of us cannnot stop and pitch on National Trust land. Cannot stop and ptich on Forestry Commisison Land. Cannot stop and pitch on National Trust land. Cannot stop and pitch on any Crown land - for instance beaches. Cannot stop and pich on Local Authority Land. And of course not on any private land. There is no-where left for Travellers - or any of us - to stop and pitch a caravan or a tent. All that is left as many point to is private paying caravan parks. And that runs completely counter to the Traveller tradition. In the end England of all countries the most bought up fenced owned landed country in the western world Its not "We-shall-see" a matter of land being "set side" for Travllers (or anyone) - its a matter of millions of aces of public land having been taken out of public use. Bought up by private owners. And you might compare that with for instance Richard Drax MP near Wimbounre Charbrough House 7,000 acres his land for his family. And similarly several thousand more landed estates thoughout UK. Yet in all Dorset I doubt if we have more than a couple of acres of open public common land for the general public. And that in my view is the issue. Why Travellers travelling though Poole and other towns are driven onto recreation grounds. Travellers and residents then in conflcit - becasue we have no public common land left in the country. Jeff Williams Jeff in Parkstone
  • Score: 3

8:00am Sat 5 Apr 14

muscliffman says...

Bob49 wrote:
muscliffman wrote:
This is about the detail again, not the source of the problem,- namely the 'liberal' brigades past success in achieving ethnic recognition for a group of people following a lifestyle not even accepted in their home Country.

However the idea of any form of 'lock down' in Poole or Bournemouth will hit the same base problem, because our Authorities have demonstrated time and again how they become paralysed with a mix of 'liberalism', professional apathy and fear whenever 'travellers' turn up - and it matters not how many laws, gates or barriers are broken.

Where there is a will.....unfortunate


ly there is not.
oh dear' just when you think there is consensus of reasoned thpought up pops another Daily Mail style ill informed nonsense.

These people were ruled as an ethnic group by a decision made in a British court by a British judge, so why not stop spouting this tosh about 'liberalism'.

iIf you don't like the idea of free thought, tolerance and acceptance why don't you go live in some country that shares your views on intolerance and censorship.

As to the rest of us we suffer from these regular incursions and tresspass, amongst many other activities'. What it needs to stop this annual 'pillage' is for locals to know why this happens and what can be done to stop it - once and for all. And that begins by having information that is accurate - not your brand of Daily Mail style bo llox that adds nothing to the debate bar demonstrating the dangers of overdosing on lies and misinformation.

So why not actually look up what that ruling was, who made and then ask your elected representative why no government has challenged it.
Off in your fantasy world again reading things that are not even there! Because I said, " the 'liberal' brigades past success in achieving ethnic recognition for a group of people following a lifestyle not even accepted in their home Country." I am perfectly aware that this 'liberalist' ruling was made here in the UK by our own daft establishment which is why nowhere in the post did I remotely suggest otherwise, so there was nothing 'ill-informed' or 'inaccurate' about that.

If we are to have accuracy please at least make the effort to read people's comments properly before hastily hijacking them as an irrelevant vehicle to peddle your rather too often repeated irrational hate of a particular national newspaper - which incidentally I do not like either - thank you.
[quote][p][bold]Bob49[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]muscliffman[/bold] wrote: This is about the detail again, not the source of the problem,- namely the 'liberal' brigades past success in achieving ethnic recognition for a group of people following a lifestyle not even accepted in their home Country. However the idea of any form of 'lock down' in Poole or Bournemouth will hit the same base problem, because our Authorities have demonstrated time and again how they become paralysed with a mix of 'liberalism', professional apathy and fear whenever 'travellers' turn up - and it matters not how many laws, gates or barriers are broken. Where there is a will.....unfortunate ly there is not.[/p][/quote]oh dear' just when you think there is consensus of reasoned thpought up pops another Daily Mail style ill informed nonsense. These people were ruled as an ethnic group by a decision made in a British court by a British judge, so why not stop spouting this tosh about 'liberalism'. iIf you don't like the idea of free thought, tolerance and acceptance why don't you go live in some country that shares your views on intolerance and censorship. As to the rest of us we suffer from these regular incursions and tresspass, amongst many other activities'. What it needs to stop this annual 'pillage' is for locals to know why this happens and what can be done to stop it - once and for all. And that begins by having information that is accurate - not your brand of Daily Mail style bo llox that adds nothing to the debate bar demonstrating the dangers of overdosing on lies and misinformation. So why not actually look up what that ruling was, who made and then ask your elected representative why no government has challenged it.[/p][/quote]Off in your fantasy world again reading things that are not even there! Because I said, " the 'liberal' brigades past success in achieving ethnic recognition for a group of people following a lifestyle not even accepted in their home Country." I am perfectly aware that this 'liberalist' ruling was made here in the UK by our own daft establishment which is why nowhere in the post did I remotely suggest otherwise, so there was nothing 'ill-informed' or 'inaccurate' about that. If we are to have accuracy please at least make the effort to read people's comments properly before hastily hijacking them as an irrelevant vehicle to peddle your rather too often repeated irrational hate of a particular national newspaper - which incidentally I do not like either - thank you. muscliffman
  • Score: 1

12:42pm Sat 5 Apr 14

seaviews says...

While the Dorset Police force choose how they will enforce or not enforce the law this problem will go on.

Question: Can the local council tell the police how to handle a situation?

I think a new police chief would probably be a good start, someone who would uphold the laws of the UK.

Lets treat these people as if the were normal law abiding citizens and where the law is broken act accordingly. Deal with the law breaker as would be normal to deal with them. Crush cars for no road tax and insurance. When filmed committing acts of criminal damage prosecute. Tie them up in costly court battles for long periods as would happen to normal people.

Lets be the first County to get rid of the PC correct element of councils and police to improve the quality of every day life for everyone in those counties.
While the Dorset Police force choose how they will enforce or not enforce the law this problem will go on. Question: Can the local council tell the police how to handle a situation? I think a new police chief would probably be a good start, someone who would uphold the laws of the UK. Lets treat these people as if the were normal law abiding citizens and where the law is broken act accordingly. Deal with the law breaker as would be normal to deal with them. Crush cars for no road tax and insurance. When filmed committing acts of criminal damage prosecute. Tie them up in costly court battles for long periods as would happen to normal people. Lets be the first County to get rid of the PC correct element of councils and police to improve the quality of every day life for everyone in those counties. seaviews
  • Score: 2

8:19am Sun 6 Apr 14

loftusrod says...

I notice Jeff Williams hasn't explained why they can't pay to stay at Caravan Club sites.
I notice Jeff Williams hasn't explained why they can't pay to stay at Caravan Club sites. loftusrod
  • Score: 2

2:26pm Sun 6 Apr 14

canfordcherry says...

With regard to Jeff, 7.17am Sat 5;
Money is planned to be spent on the sporting facilities at this venue with many more venues to come after. Thanks to DCFA, when this happens, for their pursuit of the interests of grass roots football.
With regard to Jeff, 7.17am Sat 5; Money is planned to be spent on the sporting facilities at this venue with many more venues to come after. Thanks to DCFA, when this happens, for their pursuit of the interests of grass roots football. canfordcherry
  • Score: 0

2:32pm Sun 6 Apr 14

Peroni says...

loftusrod wrote:
I notice Jeff Williams hasn't explained why they can't pay to stay at Caravan Club sites.
Or even why they can't go to any shop and purchase goods with out trying to steal !!!!!
They are the absolute bottom feeders of society , they can't even clear up mess .........why do we have to pay for the slobs !!!
[quote][p][bold]loftusrod[/bold] wrote: I notice Jeff Williams hasn't explained why they can't pay to stay at Caravan Club sites.[/p][/quote]Or even why they can't go to any shop and purchase goods with out trying to steal !!!!! They are the absolute bottom feeders of society , they can't even clear up mess .........why do we have to pay for the slobs !!! Peroni
  • Score: 2

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