Calls for Poole council leader to resign after shock sacking of cabinet member Judy Butt

Calls for Poole council leader to resign after shock sacking of cabinet member Judy Butt

DISMISSAL: Councillor Judy Butt

APPALLING: Colin Lambert

INDEFENSIBLE: Peter Steer

SURPRISED: Janet Berry,

DISAPPOINTED: Tom Houston

DISGUSTED: Keith Willard

First published in News
Last updated
by

POOLE residents have reacted with shock to the surprise removal of a cabinet member and the council leader who sacked her has been called on to resign.

Creekmoor councillor Judy Butt, who until Wednesday was a cabinet member on Borough of Poole, was sacked by council leader Cllr Elaine Atkinson for supporting residents opposing a temporary transit site in her ward above her council-wide responsibilities.

Now Colin Lambert, for 10 years a committee member of Parkstone Bay Association, said Cllr Elaine Atkinson should stand down for her “appalling” treatment of Cllr Butt.

He said Creekmoor councillor Judy Butt had always been helpful and had even helped clear up Whitecliff after a traveller incursion last year.

“I think that the people responsible for her removal from the cabinet should hang their heads in shame. It should be those people responsible who are removed from office,” he said.

“Councillors are meant to support their ward residents. Poole always used to be a democratically run borough. It would seem now that it is running the risk of turning into a dictatorship.”

Peter Steer, secretary of PBA for more than 25 years, said Cllr Butt had assisted, advised and supported the association whenever asked.

“To dismiss her from her cabinet position for supporting the residents of her ward, the very residents who voted her in to represent them on Poole Council, is indefensible,” he said.

Terry Stewart of the Vision for Poole group said Cllr Butt’s dismissal was “terrible” for Poole.

“She has been marvellously supportive of residents (the electorate) on a number of issues, such as the Fields in Trust protection for our parks, the travellers and planning,” he said.

“She is now the 5th councillor to be pushed out of their position by the council leaders, which is a sad sign for democracy in Poole.”

Creekmoor resident John Butler, chairman of UKIP Poole and Mid Dorset, said: “Surely she was only doing her job?”

Disappointment and disgust at decision

Janet Berry, from Creekmoor, said: “I am surprised. She lived nearby and knew the area and the residents.”

Tom Houston said: “I’m very disappointed. She’s a very good councillor. It doesn’t seem very democratic.”

Keith Willard said: I’m disgusted that someone has the authority to sack people for them just doing their job.”

Comments (68)

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5:59am Fri 14 Feb 14

BIGTONE says...

This is what communism and little Hitler's is all about.
This is what communism and little Hitler's is all about. BIGTONE
  • Score: 21

7:17am Fri 14 Feb 14

Letcommonsenseprevail says...

Shameless bully-boy tactics from a wannabe politician.
Shameless bully-boy tactics from a wannabe politician. Letcommonsenseprevail
  • Score: 22

7:51am Fri 14 Feb 14

kalebmoledirt says...

Poole could twin it's self with some place in North Korea.The lady was elected to look after the her electors.Not the fragile ego of a weak council.They say the worst enemy of a woman in the boardroom is another woman
Poole could twin it's self with some place in North Korea.The lady was elected to look after the her electors.Not the fragile ego of a weak council.They say the worst enemy of a woman in the boardroom is another woman kalebmoledirt
  • Score: 29

8:20am Fri 14 Feb 14

Carolyn43 says...

The Echo likes polls. Let's have one:
......
Who thinks Judy Butt is right to represent her residents and should be reinstated?
....
and
....
Who thinks Atkinson is a dictator and should resign?
The Echo likes polls. Let's have one: ...... Who thinks Judy Butt is right to represent her residents and should be reinstated? .... and .... Who thinks Atkinson is a dictator and should resign? Carolyn43
  • Score: 73

8:22am Fri 14 Feb 14

Carolyn43 says...

Or make it 4 questions:
....
Do you think Judy Butt is right to represent her residents?
Do you think Judy Butt should be reinstated?
Do you think Atkinson dictates to the council?
Do you think Atkinson should resign?
Or make it 4 questions: .... Do you think Judy Butt is right to represent her residents? Do you think Judy Butt should be reinstated? Do you think Atkinson dictates to the council? Do you think Atkinson should resign? Carolyn43
  • Score: 71

9:00am Fri 14 Feb 14

manyogie says...

There must be an ombudsman somewhere to sort this out
I vote for people to represent me, if, in doing so, they get fired, that is wrong!
There must be an ombudsman somewhere to sort this out I vote for people to represent me, if, in doing so, they get fired, that is wrong! manyogie
  • Score: 27

9:21am Fri 14 Feb 14

The Liberal says...

This is simply poor politics and shows a lack of maturity from Cllr Atkinson. Anyone with any sense would have appreciated that Cllr Butt needed to represent the views of the people in her ward and therefore leave it that, rather than treat it as some form of indiscipline or treachery. Hopefully Cllr Butt will stand as an Independent next time – I'm sure she'd be elected.
This is simply poor politics and shows a lack of maturity from Cllr Atkinson. Anyone with any sense would have appreciated that Cllr Butt needed to represent the views of the people in her ward and therefore leave it that, rather than treat it as some form of indiscipline or treachery. Hopefully Cllr Butt will stand as an Independent next time – I'm sure she'd be elected. The Liberal
  • Score: 32

9:22am Fri 14 Feb 14

sea poole says...

If any of you know either of the cllrs -Butt or Atkinson, ask yourselves a very simple question -who has done more for Poole and its residents -is it Cllr Butt or Cllr Atkinson? I think we all know the answer to this question. Is it A or B? There certainly isn't a Plan A (Atkinson) but there's plenty of vision for B (Butt)!
If any of you know either of the cllrs -Butt or Atkinson, ask yourselves a very simple question -who has done more for Poole and its residents -is it Cllr Butt or Cllr Atkinson? I think we all know the answer to this question. Is it A or B? There certainly isn't a Plan A (Atkinson) but there's plenty of vision for B (Butt)! sea poole
  • Score: 17

9:30am Fri 14 Feb 14

phonehome says...

Time for Judy to join Poole People Party. No whip, no fear.
Time for Judy to join Poole People Party. No whip, no fear. phonehome
  • Score: 10

9:43am Fri 14 Feb 14

DorsetFerret says...

Councilor Butts' dismissal from her cabinet post by councilor Atkinson is symptomatic with all that is wrong with the leadership of this council and I include councilor Eads in this statement. Between them and from the very start, they have tried to ‘railroad’ the travellers site through the various procedures with little or no thought for the residents of Creekmoor, (or come to that Poole in general). Isn't it time now for them to do the decent thing and put this whole matter on hold until Parliament has discussed the problem of travellers in 2015 with a view to allowing local authorities to work together. And re-instate councilor Butt?
Councilor Butts' dismissal from her cabinet post by councilor Atkinson is symptomatic with all that is wrong with the leadership of this council and I include councilor Eads in this statement. Between them and from the very start, they have tried to ‘railroad’ the travellers site through the various procedures with little or no thought for the residents of Creekmoor, (or come to that Poole in general). Isn't it time now for them to do the decent thing and put this whole matter on hold until Parliament has discussed the problem of travellers in 2015 with a view to allowing local authorities to work together. And re-instate councilor Butt? DorsetFerret
  • Score: 28

9:44am Fri 14 Feb 14

Gordon Cann says...

I sympathise with the general sentiments expressed but it goes to the heart of representative government ; if Councillor Atkinson made a bad decision as many feel she did then two questions need to be asked- firstly does she have the support of her Cabinet colleagues who can replace her; and secondly does she have the support of the rank and file Conservative Councillors who can be deselected if their constituents so wish.

The truth is ( sadly in my opinion) that if any Councillor does not toe the agreed party line he or she will probably be deselected and if they stand as independents they will probably be voted out against a majority party political candidate- it what is called party politics
I sympathise with the general sentiments expressed but it goes to the heart of representative government ; if Councillor Atkinson made a bad decision as many feel she did then two questions need to be asked- firstly does she have the support of her Cabinet colleagues who can replace her; and secondly does she have the support of the rank and file Conservative Councillors who can be deselected if their constituents so wish. The truth is ( sadly in my opinion) that if any Councillor does not toe the agreed party line he or she will probably be deselected and if they stand as independents they will probably be voted out against a majority party political candidate- it what is called party politics Gordon Cann
  • Score: 4

10:03am Fri 14 Feb 14

speedy231278 says...

The problem is that this is exactly the same thing as happens in Parliament. Come the time to vote on a particular motion, the parties will often instruct their MPs they must vote, and if they don't follow this instruction, they can have serious sanctions imposed, including expulsion from the party. They cannot say how to vote, but it is clear that all the votes in their favour are necessary, so the implication is obvious. In this case, the council's policy is clearly that this camp will be put exactly where they have already chosen regardless of what anyone else thinks about it.

It would seem that councillor Butt has ignored the council's equivalent of a three line whip.
The problem is that this is exactly the same thing as happens in Parliament. Come the time to vote on a particular motion, the parties will often instruct their MPs they must vote, and if they don't follow this instruction, they can have serious sanctions imposed, including expulsion from the party. They cannot say how to vote, but it is clear that all the votes in their favour are necessary, so the implication is obvious. In this case, the council's policy is clearly that this camp will be put exactly where they have already chosen regardless of what anyone else thinks about it. It would seem that councillor Butt has ignored the council's equivalent of a three line whip. speedy231278
  • Score: 7

10:08am Fri 14 Feb 14

Teddy 1 says...

Someone should raise this issue nationally through a facebook campaign. Not about the traveller issue but the council treatmant of cllr butt. Disgusting treatment. Time for her 'boss' to resign.
Someone should raise this issue nationally through a facebook campaign. Not about the traveller issue but the council treatmant of cllr butt. Disgusting treatment. Time for her 'boss' to resign. Teddy 1
  • Score: 17

10:22am Fri 14 Feb 14

calamity carney says...

Now I wonder who will end up being leader if cllr Atkinson is forced out? One guess only chaps!
Now I wonder who will end up being leader if cllr Atkinson is forced out? One guess only chaps! calamity carney
  • Score: 6

10:26am Fri 14 Feb 14

boyerboy says...

You have a good councillor ( Branksome) who is told to adopt the party line and whole heartedly supported the ill advised stadium application in Branksome for Poole Football Club.....result ? lost her seat at the next election. Voters are not idiots, we have long memories and will not vote for Councillors who fail to represent our views....surprised the band of merry men at Poole do not recognise this.
You have a good councillor ( Branksome) who is told to adopt the party line and whole heartedly supported the ill advised stadium application in Branksome for Poole Football Club.....result ? lost her seat at the next election. Voters are not idiots, we have long memories and will not vote for Councillors who fail to represent our views....surprised the band of merry men at Poole do not recognise this. boyerboy
  • Score: 13

10:31am Fri 14 Feb 14

adspacebroker says...

In between eating Jaffa Cakes, Atkinson forgets how she got elected, it was the people who SHE was supposed to represent, that means voicing their interests at council meetings....which is exactly what Judy Butt was doing. Sadly many councillors forget that once they start looking forward to their expenses cheque every month and then they come out of the woodwork before an election in a panic. Atkinson it is NOT ABOUT YOU, it is about the residents, you are a total disgrace, get out!!!
In between eating Jaffa Cakes, Atkinson forgets how she got elected, it was the people who SHE was supposed to represent, that means voicing their interests at council meetings....which is exactly what Judy Butt was doing. Sadly many councillors forget that once they start looking forward to their expenses cheque every month and then they come out of the woodwork before an election in a panic. Atkinson it is NOT ABOUT YOU, it is about the residents, you are a total disgrace, get out!!! adspacebroker
  • Score: 34

10:40am Fri 14 Feb 14

dustbindanny says...

So much for democracy,! Welcome to North Korean Politics,,People of Poole with Honourable Leader Atkinson!
So much for democracy,! Welcome to North Korean Politics,,People of Poole with Honourable Leader Atkinson! dustbindanny
  • Score: 7

10:54am Fri 14 Feb 14

calamity carney says...

dustbindanny wrote:
So much for democracy,! Welcome to North Korean Politics,,People of Poole with Honourable Leader Atkinson!
Looks like a witch hunt is going on now!
[quote][p][bold]dustbindanny[/bold] wrote: So much for democracy,! Welcome to North Korean Politics,,People of Poole with Honourable Leader Atkinson![/p][/quote]Looks like a witch hunt is going on now! calamity carney
  • Score: -4

11:07am Fri 14 Feb 14

John T says...

calamity carney wrote:
dustbindanny wrote:
So much for democracy,! Welcome to North Korean Politics,,People of Poole with Honourable Leader Atkinson!
Looks like a witch hunt is going on now!
Do you mean Councillor Dion is being head-hunted to be the next Leader of Poole Council?
God save us from Councillor Dion and UKIP!
[quote][p][bold]calamity carney[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]dustbindanny[/bold] wrote: So much for democracy,! Welcome to North Korean Politics,,People of Poole with Honourable Leader Atkinson![/p][/quote]Looks like a witch hunt is going on now![/p][/quote]Do you mean Councillor Dion is being head-hunted to be the next Leader of Poole Council? God save us from Councillor Dion and UKIP! John T
  • Score: 1

11:08am Fri 14 Feb 14

Carolyn43 says...

Atkinson is proud of having seen the delivery of an unreliable pretty bridge.
......
Creekmoor already has one white elephant in the form of the so-called park and ride, and lost a green field for that because Marshes End was too polluted for people to park cars on. Now Atkinson intends to put people to live on that site, and when they refuse to do so for that and other valid reasons, there'll be another white elephant and another green area lost.
.....
Will Atkinson resign then? Of course she won't. She'll be proud of that as well.
......
We don't have a council. We have just two people running Poole.
Atkinson is proud of having seen the delivery of an unreliable pretty bridge. ...... Creekmoor already has one white elephant in the form of the so-called park and ride, and lost a green field for that because Marshes End was too polluted for people to park cars on. Now Atkinson intends to put people to live on that site, and when they refuse to do so for that and other valid reasons, there'll be another white elephant and another green area lost. ..... Will Atkinson resign then? Of course she won't. She'll be proud of that as well. ...... We don't have a council. We have just two people running Poole. Carolyn43
  • Score: 19

11:31am Fri 14 Feb 14

BmthNewshound says...

Atkinson and Beesley must have attended the same training camp for dictatorial and autocratic Tory council leaders. Both need to be wary as the grey vote on which they depend to stay in power are prime targets for UKIP.
Atkinson and Beesley must have attended the same training camp for dictatorial and autocratic Tory council leaders. Both need to be wary as the grey vote on which they depend to stay in power are prime targets for UKIP. BmthNewshound
  • Score: 15

12:15pm Fri 14 Feb 14

kalebmoledirt says...

Just googled,Elaine Atkinson and got a look at her,Whoa.Judy its clear why she did,nt want to be in the Same room as you
Just googled,Elaine Atkinson and got a look at her,Whoa.Judy its clear why she did,nt want to be in the Same room as you kalebmoledirt
  • Score: 6

12:17pm Fri 14 Feb 14

Jo__Go says...

I'm sure Atkinson thinks she is showing firm leadership, sadly the time for that was when the arrogant and smug Eades was pushing through this ludicrous proposal to grease his own election prospects. How does a minority leader, even when he's Mayor, get to dictate to the whole Council including the unfortunate officers tasked with making a fairy story into a Cabinet report?
The sacking of Judy Butt is pure spite and petulance, with a hint of grandstanding. It is shameful, and should be the final nail in the coffin of an utterly inadequate leader.
Time for her to go.
I'm sure Atkinson thinks she is showing firm leadership, sadly the time for that was when the arrogant and smug Eades was pushing through this ludicrous proposal to grease his own election prospects. How does a minority leader, even when he's Mayor, get to dictate to the whole Council including the unfortunate officers tasked with making a fairy story into a Cabinet report? The sacking of Judy Butt is pure spite and petulance, with a hint of grandstanding. It is shameful, and should be the final nail in the coffin of an utterly inadequate leader. Time for her to go. Jo__Go
  • Score: 16

12:41pm Fri 14 Feb 14

muscliffman says...

Yes the 'leader' of Poole Council should resign over this whole shocking set of events, but having followed the story from very slightly afar I sincerely do wonder who exactly is the true 'leader' of Poole Council. There is much evidence to suggest the title holder is certainly not the one running the show!
Yes the 'leader' of Poole Council should resign over this whole shocking set of events, but having followed the story from very slightly afar I sincerely do wonder who exactly is the true 'leader' of Poole Council. There is much evidence to suggest the title holder is certainly not the one running the show! muscliffman
  • Score: 13

12:42pm Fri 14 Feb 14

kalebmoledirt says...

Given the credibility of this council it seem increasingly likely that UKIP will be a strong contender in the next election.This may be a good time to encourage councillors that still have some credibility to defect to UKIP .instead of accepting someone that is otherwise unknown.Judy Butt give it some thought
Given the credibility of this council it seem increasingly likely that UKIP will be a strong contender in the next election.This may be a good time to encourage councillors that still have some credibility to defect to UKIP .instead of accepting someone that is otherwise unknown.Judy Butt give it some thought kalebmoledirt
  • Score: 5

1:28pm Fri 14 Feb 14

muscliffman says...

kalebmoledirt wrote:
Given the credibility of this council it seem increasingly likely that UKIP will be a strong contender in the next election.This may be a good time to encourage councillors that still have some credibility to defect to UKIP .instead of accepting someone that is otherwise unknown.Judy Butt give it some thought
I note UKIP came second in a Parliamentary election only yesterday (a Labour safe seat) beating the Conservative into third place and the Liberal Democrat into an appalling fourth - the Liberal's even lost their deposit! In 2010 UKIP just managed fifth place in this same Constituency so their popular momentum is unquestionably gathering and manifesting time and again as real votes.

It is not unknown for groups of UK Councillors to defect in one go to UKIP so maybe this is what we need to look out for locally, although Councillor Butt with her status and current repute could alone easily provide a significant toehold for this welcome alternative to the stale and failing old-time Parties.
[quote][p][bold]kalebmoledirt[/bold] wrote: Given the credibility of this council it seem increasingly likely that UKIP will be a strong contender in the next election.This may be a good time to encourage councillors that still have some credibility to defect to UKIP .instead of accepting someone that is otherwise unknown.Judy Butt give it some thought[/p][/quote]I note UKIP came second in a Parliamentary election only yesterday (a Labour safe seat) beating the Conservative into third place and the Liberal Democrat into an appalling fourth - the Liberal's even lost their deposit! In 2010 UKIP just managed fifth place in this same Constituency so their popular momentum is unquestionably gathering and manifesting time and again as real votes. It is not unknown for groups of UK Councillors to defect in one go to UKIP so maybe this is what we need to look out for locally, although Councillor Butt with her status and current repute could alone easily provide a significant toehold for this welcome alternative to the stale and failing old-time Parties. muscliffman
  • Score: 4

1:49pm Fri 14 Feb 14

David_Ross says...

Does the Council Cabinet - a truly awful thing that we have these in Local Government - operate on Collective Responsibility?

If so then a member who cannot support a policy should resign with honour. It is the way National Government operates

If on the other hand such a policy does not apply (or does not apply on this issue) then I don't think she should have left the cabinet.
Does the Council Cabinet - a truly awful thing that we have these in Local Government - operate on Collective Responsibility? If so then a member who cannot support a policy should resign with honour. It is the way National Government operates If on the other hand such a policy does not apply (or does not apply on this issue) then I don't think she should have left the cabinet. David_Ross
  • Score: 0

2:13pm Fri 14 Feb 14

Jo__Go says...

David_Ross wrote:
Does the Council Cabinet - a truly awful thing that we have these in Local Government - operate on Collective Responsibility?

If so then a member who cannot support a policy should resign with honour. It is the way National Government operates

If on the other hand such a policy does not apply (or does not apply on this issue) then I don't think she should have left the cabinet.
The doctrine of collective responsibility at central government is one built out of tradition and history ... a local authority cabinet is only bound by a similar doctrine if it chooses to be. Bear in mind that central gov't Cabinet is a meeting held in secret, with the discussions only released 30 years later. A local Cabinet is a meeting open to the public while it happens.
Two very different animals...
[quote][p][bold]David_Ross[/bold] wrote: Does the Council Cabinet - a truly awful thing that we have these in Local Government - operate on Collective Responsibility? If so then a member who cannot support a policy should resign with honour. It is the way National Government operates If on the other hand such a policy does not apply (or does not apply on this issue) then I don't think she should have left the cabinet.[/p][/quote]The doctrine of collective responsibility at central government is one built out of tradition and history ... a local authority cabinet is only bound by a similar doctrine if it chooses to be. Bear in mind that central gov't Cabinet is a meeting held in secret, with the discussions only released 30 years later. A local Cabinet is a meeting open to the public while it happens. Two very different animals... Jo__Go
  • Score: 3

2:25pm Fri 14 Feb 14

In Absentia says...

An awful lot of commentators on here, including those in the report, seem to have no understanding of the principles of cabinet governance. Irrespective of whether Judy Butt was right to defend her residents (which I think she was), she should have resigned from the Cabinet if this stance was at odds with cabinet policies. One could argue that waiting to be sacked has given her a greater martyr status. If she no longer has any confidence in Elaine Atkinson then as a member of the Conservative group she could call for a vote of confidence in her leadership? We can then see how the Conservative group feels on the matter.
An awful lot of commentators on here, including those in the report, seem to have no understanding of the principles of cabinet governance. Irrespective of whether Judy Butt was right to defend her residents (which I think she was), she should have resigned from the Cabinet if this stance was at odds with cabinet policies. One could argue that waiting to be sacked has given her a greater martyr status. If she no longer has any confidence in Elaine Atkinson then as a member of the Conservative group she could call for a vote of confidence in her leadership? We can then see how the Conservative group feels on the matter. In Absentia
  • Score: 5

2:32pm Fri 14 Feb 14

Letcommonsenseprevail says...

kalebmoledirt wrote:
Poole could twin it's self with some place in North Korea.The lady was elected to look after the her electors.Not the fragile ego of a weak council.They say the worst enemy of a woman in the boardroom is another woman
Good quote!
[quote][p][bold]kalebmoledirt[/bold] wrote: Poole could twin it's self with some place in North Korea.The lady was elected to look after the her electors.Not the fragile ego of a weak council.They say the worst enemy of a woman in the boardroom is another woman[/p][/quote]Good quote! Letcommonsenseprevail
  • Score: 0

2:50pm Fri 14 Feb 14

i have heard it all now says...

Adolf Atkinson I would hate to be married to you,I assume it is married.

I thought my Grandad fought wars to stop this intolerance,how wrong am I.
Adolf Atkinson I would hate to be married to you,I assume it is married. I thought my Grandad fought wars to stop this intolerance,how wrong am I. i have heard it all now
  • Score: 2

3:20pm Fri 14 Feb 14

pete woodley says...

John T wrote:
calamity carney wrote:
dustbindanny wrote:
So much for democracy,! Welcome to North Korean Politics,,People of Poole with Honourable Leader Atkinson!
Looks like a witch hunt is going on now!
Do you mean Councillor Dion is being head-hunted to be the next Leader of Poole Council?
God save us from Councillor Dion and UKIP!
Once again i have to agree with you.
[quote][p][bold]John T[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]calamity carney[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]dustbindanny[/bold] wrote: So much for democracy,! Welcome to North Korean Politics,,People of Poole with Honourable Leader Atkinson![/p][/quote]Looks like a witch hunt is going on now![/p][/quote]Do you mean Councillor Dion is being head-hunted to be the next Leader of Poole Council? God save us from Councillor Dion and UKIP![/p][/quote]Once again i have to agree with you. pete woodley
  • Score: 0

3:21pm Fri 14 Feb 14

pete woodley says...

John T wrote:
calamity carney wrote:
dustbindanny wrote:
So much for democracy,! Welcome to North Korean Politics,,People of Poole with Honourable Leader Atkinson!
Looks like a witch hunt is going on now!
Do you mean Councillor Dion is being head-hunted to be the next Leader of Poole Council?
God save us from Councillor Dion and UKIP!
Once again i have to agree with you.
[quote][p][bold]John T[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]calamity carney[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]dustbindanny[/bold] wrote: So much for democracy,! Welcome to North Korean Politics,,People of Poole with Honourable Leader Atkinson![/p][/quote]Looks like a witch hunt is going on now![/p][/quote]Do you mean Councillor Dion is being head-hunted to be the next Leader of Poole Council? God save us from Councillor Dion and UKIP![/p][/quote]Once again i have to agree with you. pete woodley
  • Score: 0

3:27pm Fri 14 Feb 14

Jo__Go says...

In Absentia wrote:
An awful lot of commentators on here, including those in the report, seem to have no understanding of the principles of cabinet governance. Irrespective of whether Judy Butt was right to defend her residents (which I think she was), she should have resigned from the Cabinet if this stance was at odds with cabinet policies. One could argue that waiting to be sacked has given her a greater martyr status. If she no longer has any confidence in Elaine Atkinson then as a member of the Conservative group she could call for a vote of confidence in her leadership? We can then see how the Conservative group feels on the matter.
Hmm...
Cabinet didn't make the decision, they felt unable to cope with the responsibility, and referred it instead to full Council. How does that sit with your cabinet governance model?
Of course Judy could call for a vote of no confidence in Atkinson, but she would be foolish to do so until she can see a much stronger chance of winning it. Currently the spineless Tories aren't feeling enough pain to want to change their leader ... they will.
[quote][p][bold]In Absentia[/bold] wrote: An awful lot of commentators on here, including those in the report, seem to have no understanding of the principles of cabinet governance. Irrespective of whether Judy Butt was right to defend her residents (which I think she was), she should have resigned from the Cabinet if this stance was at odds with cabinet policies. One could argue that waiting to be sacked has given her a greater martyr status. If she no longer has any confidence in Elaine Atkinson then as a member of the Conservative group she could call for a vote of confidence in her leadership? We can then see how the Conservative group feels on the matter.[/p][/quote]Hmm... Cabinet didn't make the decision, they felt unable to cope with the responsibility, and referred it instead to full Council. How does that sit with your cabinet governance model? Of course Judy could call for a vote of no confidence in Atkinson, but she would be foolish to do so until she can see a much stronger chance of winning it. Currently the spineless Tories aren't feeling enough pain to want to change their leader ... they will. Jo__Go
  • Score: 2

3:38pm Fri 14 Feb 14

John T says...

pete woodley wrote:
John T wrote:
calamity carney wrote:
dustbindanny wrote:
So much for democracy,! Welcome to North Korean Politics,,People of Poole with Honourable Leader Atkinson!
Looks like a witch hunt is going on now!
Do you mean Councillor Dion is being head-hunted to be the next Leader of Poole Council?
God save us from Councillor Dion and UKIP!
Once again i have to agree with you.
pete
As I had not seen you comment on this site for a little while, I was becoming concerned about your health. Now that you are agreeing with me so often, I am beginning to worry about mine, especially my state of mind!
Anyway, here's truly, hoping that you are as well as can be expected.
[quote][p][bold]pete woodley[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]John T[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]calamity carney[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]dustbindanny[/bold] wrote: So much for democracy,! Welcome to North Korean Politics,,People of Poole with Honourable Leader Atkinson![/p][/quote]Looks like a witch hunt is going on now![/p][/quote]Do you mean Councillor Dion is being head-hunted to be the next Leader of Poole Council? God save us from Councillor Dion and UKIP![/p][/quote]Once again i have to agree with you.[/p][/quote]pete As I had not seen you comment on this site for a little while, I was becoming concerned about your health. Now that you are agreeing with me so often, I am beginning to worry about mine, especially my state of mind! Anyway, here's truly, hoping that you are as well as can be expected. John T
  • Score: 2

3:38pm Fri 14 Feb 14

Dr Strangelove says...

John T wrote:
calamity carney wrote:
dustbindanny wrote:
So much for democracy,! Welcome to North Korean Politics,,People of Poole with Honourable Leader Atkinson!
Looks like a witch hunt is going on now!
Do you mean Councillor Dion is being head-hunted to be the next Leader of Poole Council?
God save us from Councillor Dion and UKIP!
No BUTT you can one guess who?
[quote][p][bold]John T[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]calamity carney[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]dustbindanny[/bold] wrote: So much for democracy,! Welcome to North Korean Politics,,People of Poole with Honourable Leader Atkinson![/p][/quote]Looks like a witch hunt is going on now![/p][/quote]Do you mean Councillor Dion is being head-hunted to be the next Leader of Poole Council? God save us from Councillor Dion and UKIP![/p][/quote]No BUTT you can one guess who? Dr Strangelove
  • Score: 0

3:58pm Fri 14 Feb 14

cromwell9 says...

Join UKIP Judy.
UKIP are the true Conservatives ,Standing up for the working classes,
I have always voted Conservative ,But not anymore.
Dont come on here rubbishing this comment,
Unless you are a public secter worker.
Join UKIP Judy. UKIP are the true Conservatives ,Standing up for the working classes, I have always voted Conservative ,But not anymore. Dont come on here rubbishing this comment, Unless you are a public secter worker. cromwell9
  • Score: 2

4:10pm Fri 14 Feb 14

ADST_2008 says...

Poole Council can still step away from the Abyss, you know what to do.
Poole Council can still step away from the Abyss, you know what to do. ADST_2008
  • Score: 4

4:20pm Fri 14 Feb 14

ADST_2008 says...

Jo__Go wrote:
In Absentia wrote: An awful lot of commentators on here, including those in the report, seem to have no understanding of the principles of cabinet governance. Irrespective of whether Judy Butt was right to defend her residents (which I think she was), she should have resigned from the Cabinet if this stance was at odds with cabinet policies. One could argue that waiting to be sacked has given her a greater martyr status. If she no longer has any confidence in Elaine Atkinson then as a member of the Conservative group she could call for a vote of confidence in her leadership? We can then see how the Conservative group feels on the matter.
Hmm... Cabinet didn't make the decision, they felt unable to cope with the responsibility, and referred it instead to full Council. How does that sit with your cabinet governance model? Of course Judy could call for a vote of no confidence in Atkinson, but she would be foolish to do so until she can see a much stronger chance of winning it. Currently the spineless Tories aren't feeling enough pain to want to change their leader ... they will.
This is I hope the wake up call the current Poole Admin. needs. A new stronger and fairer leader.
[quote][p][bold]Jo__Go[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]In Absentia[/bold] wrote: An awful lot of commentators on here, including those in the report, seem to have no understanding of the principles of cabinet governance. Irrespective of whether Judy Butt was right to defend her residents (which I think she was), she should have resigned from the Cabinet if this stance was at odds with cabinet policies. One could argue that waiting to be sacked has given her a greater martyr status. If she no longer has any confidence in Elaine Atkinson then as a member of the Conservative group she could call for a vote of confidence in her leadership? We can then see how the Conservative group feels on the matter.[/p][/quote]Hmm... Cabinet didn't make the decision, they felt unable to cope with the responsibility, and referred it instead to full Council. How does that sit with your cabinet governance model? Of course Judy could call for a vote of no confidence in Atkinson, but she would be foolish to do so until she can see a much stronger chance of winning it. Currently the spineless Tories aren't feeling enough pain to want to change their leader ... they will.[/p][/quote]This is I hope the wake up call the current Poole Admin. needs. A new stronger and fairer leader. ADST_2008
  • Score: 0

4:21pm Fri 14 Feb 14

ADST_2008 says...

Jo__Go wrote:
In Absentia wrote: An awful lot of commentators on here, including those in the report, seem to have no understanding of the principles of cabinet governance. Irrespective of whether Judy Butt was right to defend her residents (which I think she was), she should have resigned from the Cabinet if this stance was at odds with cabinet policies. One could argue that waiting to be sacked has given her a greater martyr status. If she no longer has any confidence in Elaine Atkinson then as a member of the Conservative group she could call for a vote of confidence in her leadership? We can then see how the Conservative group feels on the matter.
Hmm... Cabinet didn't make the decision, they felt unable to cope with the responsibility, and referred it instead to full Council. How does that sit with your cabinet governance model? Of course Judy could call for a vote of no confidence in Atkinson, but she would be foolish to do so until she can see a much stronger chance of winning it. Currently the spineless Tories aren't feeling enough pain to want to change their leader ... they will.
This is I hope the wake up call the current Poole Admin. needs. A new stronger and fairer leader.
[quote][p][bold]Jo__Go[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]In Absentia[/bold] wrote: An awful lot of commentators on here, including those in the report, seem to have no understanding of the principles of cabinet governance. Irrespective of whether Judy Butt was right to defend her residents (which I think she was), she should have resigned from the Cabinet if this stance was at odds with cabinet policies. One could argue that waiting to be sacked has given her a greater martyr status. If she no longer has any confidence in Elaine Atkinson then as a member of the Conservative group she could call for a vote of confidence in her leadership? We can then see how the Conservative group feels on the matter.[/p][/quote]Hmm... Cabinet didn't make the decision, they felt unable to cope with the responsibility, and referred it instead to full Council. How does that sit with your cabinet governance model? Of course Judy could call for a vote of no confidence in Atkinson, but she would be foolish to do so until she can see a much stronger chance of winning it. Currently the spineless Tories aren't feeling enough pain to want to change their leader ... they will.[/p][/quote]This is I hope the wake up call the current Poole Admin. needs. A new stronger and fairer leader. ADST_2008
  • Score: 1

4:23pm Fri 14 Feb 14

Jeff in Parkstone says...

There seems to be bandwagon here.

I have myself come out in support of Cllr Butt.

And posted a letter in support in Echo today.

However I have had an email from Cllr Atkinson.

The critcal point in that letter the point Cllr Butt's position had become *untenable*.

Meaning Judy could not continue as a cabinet Cllr supporting cabinet and council policy to put a transit site into Creekmoor, and work with residents actively opposing this policy.

That to me is understandable.

One large conflict of interests.

Judy was then given the opportunity to step down from cabinet and as a ward Cllr work with her residents opposing the site with then no conflcit of interest.

Clearly then a very upsetting decision for a hard working committed cabinet Cllr who put so much hard work into community project including trying to move forward the travellers' issue.

So the whole issue is not as clear cut as it seems at first.

Rather a very regretable situation all round. An extraordinary conflict between being a ward Cllr and being a cabinet Cllr.

Council and cabinet trying to work in the interest of the *whole borough* to set up a required transit site for travellers (as requried by national law), Cllr Butt ending up in her position as ward Cllr understandably suporting her residents and opposing the policy.

And irony of ironies Cllr Butt the one who in her position as Portfolio Holder of Communities the Cllr who took forward the travellers' issue to find a suitable site.

So no winners here is there. And I would say no baddies either. Just a very fraught situation.

If any lessons are to be learned it must be that there is a way to make ward Cllr responsibilties *ompatible*with cabinet porttfolio collective responsiblity.

There must be a way and this doesn't happen again. And indeed I would hope Cllr Butt resinstated to her position as a valued member of Cllr Atkinson's team.

Jeff Williams
There seems to be bandwagon here. I have myself come out in support of Cllr Butt. And posted a letter in support in Echo today. However I have had an email from Cllr Atkinson. The critcal point in that letter the point Cllr Butt's position had become *untenable*. Meaning Judy could not continue as a cabinet Cllr supporting cabinet and council policy to put a transit site into Creekmoor, and work with residents actively opposing this policy. That to me is understandable. One large conflict of interests. Judy was then given the opportunity to step down from cabinet and as a ward Cllr work with her residents opposing the site with then no conflcit of interest. Clearly then a very upsetting decision for a hard working committed cabinet Cllr who put so much hard work into community project including trying to move forward the travellers' issue. So the whole issue is not as clear cut as it seems at first. Rather a very regretable situation all round. An extraordinary conflict between being a ward Cllr and being a cabinet Cllr. Council and cabinet trying to work in the interest of the *whole borough* to set up a required transit site for travellers (as requried by national law), Cllr Butt ending up in her position as ward Cllr understandably suporting her residents and opposing the policy. And irony of ironies Cllr Butt the one who in her position as Portfolio Holder of Communities the Cllr who took forward the travellers' issue to find a suitable site. So no winners here is there. And I would say no baddies either. Just a very fraught situation. If any lessons are to be learned it must be that there is a way to make ward Cllr responsibilties *ompatible*with cabinet porttfolio collective responsiblity. There must be a way and this doesn't happen again. And indeed I would hope Cllr Butt resinstated to her position as a valued member of Cllr Atkinson's team. Jeff Williams Jeff in Parkstone
  • Score: 2

4:33pm Fri 14 Feb 14

Gordon Cann says...

Rightly or wrongly local government in this country operates with a structure that requires a Cabinet where collective responsibility is the guiding principle; anyone who is invited to join a Cabinet does so knowing they are bound by collective responsibility-if they do not accept the limitation that applies to their actions then a seat in the Cabinet should be declined

You cannot really ;have your cake and eat it nearly all Councillors are elected as a consequence of having a political label; just look at how many Independents there are on Poole Council or in the House of Commons ) and ask why that is so; the only real alternative is probably an elected mayor at the local government level.
Rightly or wrongly local government in this country operates with a structure that requires a Cabinet where collective responsibility is the guiding principle; anyone who is invited to join a Cabinet does so knowing they are bound by collective responsibility-if they do not accept the limitation that applies to their actions then a seat in the Cabinet should be declined You cannot really ;have your cake and eat it nearly all Councillors are elected as a consequence of having a political label; just look at how many Independents there are on Poole Council or in the House of Commons ) and ask why that is so; the only real alternative is probably an elected mayor at the local government level. Gordon Cann
  • Score: -2

4:41pm Fri 14 Feb 14

Gordon Cann says...

I have just read Jeff Williams comment, perhaps he would indicate what he understands by collective responsibility , whether it is a good idea and if it is not how would he replace it.
I have just read Jeff Williams comment, perhaps he would indicate what he understands by collective responsibility , whether it is a good idea and if it is not how would he replace it. Gordon Cann
  • Score: 2

5:18pm Fri 14 Feb 14

Jo__Go says...

Gordon Cann wrote:
Rightly or wrongly local government in this country operates with a structure that requires a Cabinet where collective responsibility is the guiding principle; anyone who is invited to join a Cabinet does so knowing they are bound by collective responsibility-if they do not accept the limitation that applies to their actions then a seat in the Cabinet should be declined

You cannot really ;have your cake and eat it nearly all Councillors are elected as a consequence of having a political label; just look at how many Independents there are on Poole Council or in the House of Commons ) and ask why that is so; the only real alternative is probably an elected mayor at the local government level.
Yes, a cabinet structure is, at the moment, legally required, I've yet to find any legal requirement for a doctrine of collective responsibility. Interestingly, the Localism Act seems to offer councils the opportunity to move away from 'leader and cabinet' back to a council and committee system ... evidence of poor performance of the executive model?
I initially thought, despite my admiration for Judy Butt's stance, that she should perhaps resign from Cabinet, but on more mature reflection, it seemed to me appropriate and fitting that Atkinson be forced to bear the consequences of her blinkered intransigence, and have to step up to sack Judy. If nothing else the debacle has shown where true responsibility for the travellers proposal farce lies.
[quote][p][bold]Gordon Cann[/bold] wrote: Rightly or wrongly local government in this country operates with a structure that requires a Cabinet where collective responsibility is the guiding principle; anyone who is invited to join a Cabinet does so knowing they are bound by collective responsibility-if they do not accept the limitation that applies to their actions then a seat in the Cabinet should be declined You cannot really ;have your cake and eat it nearly all Councillors are elected as a consequence of having a political label; just look at how many Independents there are on Poole Council or in the House of Commons ) and ask why that is so; the only real alternative is probably an elected mayor at the local government level.[/p][/quote]Yes, a cabinet structure is, at the moment, legally required, I've yet to find any legal requirement for a doctrine of collective responsibility. Interestingly, the Localism Act seems to offer councils the opportunity to move away from 'leader and cabinet' back to a council and committee system ... evidence of poor performance of the executive model? I initially thought, despite my admiration for Judy Butt's stance, that she should perhaps resign from Cabinet, but on more mature reflection, it seemed to me appropriate and fitting that Atkinson be forced to bear the consequences of her blinkered intransigence, and have to step up to sack Judy. If nothing else the debacle has shown where true responsibility for the travellers proposal farce lies. Jo__Go
  • Score: 2

5:22pm Fri 14 Feb 14

Big Man 2 says...

Jeff in Parkstone wrote:
There seems to be bandwagon here.

I have myself come out in support of Cllr Butt.

And posted a letter in support in Echo today.

However I have had an email from Cllr Atkinson.

The critcal point in that letter the point Cllr Butt's position had become *untenable*.

Meaning Judy could not continue as a cabinet Cllr supporting cabinet and council policy to put a transit site into Creekmoor, and work with residents actively opposing this policy.

That to me is understandable.

One large conflict of interests.

Judy was then given the opportunity to step down from cabinet and as a ward Cllr work with her residents opposing the site with then no conflcit of interest.

Clearly then a very upsetting decision for a hard working committed cabinet Cllr who put so much hard work into community project including trying to move forward the travellers' issue.

So the whole issue is not as clear cut as it seems at first.

Rather a very regretable situation all round. An extraordinary conflict between being a ward Cllr and being a cabinet Cllr.

Council and cabinet trying to work in the interest of the *whole borough* to set up a required transit site for travellers (as requried by national law), Cllr Butt ending up in her position as ward Cllr understandably suporting her residents and opposing the policy.

And irony of ironies Cllr Butt the one who in her position as Portfolio Holder of Communities the Cllr who took forward the travellers' issue to find a suitable site.

So no winners here is there. And I would say no baddies either. Just a very fraught situation.

If any lessons are to be learned it must be that there is a way to make ward Cllr responsibilties *ompatible*with cabinet porttfolio collective responsiblity.

There must be a way and this doesn't happen again. And indeed I would hope Cllr Butt resinstated to her position as a valued member of Cllr Atkinson's team.

Jeff Williams
Jeff you seem to be under the misconception that we the residents of Poole are required to provide this site in law, that is not the case , there is nor requiremt in statute, this was rescinded at the start of the coalition Government and is no longer a requirement.

Poole council has been working towards a transit site with other councils and Dorset County Council, for a central transit site in the county, and until those negotiations are complete the council should not even be considering wasting taxpayers hard earned money.

This is a personal project of the mayor, just for electioneering purposes, well I think it has now backfired on him with sacking of Judy Butt, may as well remove your name from next years MP elections Mr Eades, you ain't got a cat in hells chance now.!!

Judy Butt is one the most hardworking and respected Councillors in Poole, and as such deserves a lot more respect from the rest of the council, including the council leader and the mayor.

At least she values her electorate, and knows a vast amount of them personally, how many other Councillors can say that !!
[quote][p][bold]Jeff in Parkstone[/bold] wrote: There seems to be bandwagon here. I have myself come out in support of Cllr Butt. And posted a letter in support in Echo today. However I have had an email from Cllr Atkinson. The critcal point in that letter the point Cllr Butt's position had become *untenable*. Meaning Judy could not continue as a cabinet Cllr supporting cabinet and council policy to put a transit site into Creekmoor, and work with residents actively opposing this policy. That to me is understandable. One large conflict of interests. Judy was then given the opportunity to step down from cabinet and as a ward Cllr work with her residents opposing the site with then no conflcit of interest. Clearly then a very upsetting decision for a hard working committed cabinet Cllr who put so much hard work into community project including trying to move forward the travellers' issue. So the whole issue is not as clear cut as it seems at first. Rather a very regretable situation all round. An extraordinary conflict between being a ward Cllr and being a cabinet Cllr. Council and cabinet trying to work in the interest of the *whole borough* to set up a required transit site for travellers (as requried by national law), Cllr Butt ending up in her position as ward Cllr understandably suporting her residents and opposing the policy. And irony of ironies Cllr Butt the one who in her position as Portfolio Holder of Communities the Cllr who took forward the travellers' issue to find a suitable site. So no winners here is there. And I would say no baddies either. Just a very fraught situation. If any lessons are to be learned it must be that there is a way to make ward Cllr responsibilties *ompatible*with cabinet porttfolio collective responsiblity. There must be a way and this doesn't happen again. And indeed I would hope Cllr Butt resinstated to her position as a valued member of Cllr Atkinson's team. Jeff Williams[/p][/quote]Jeff you seem to be under the misconception that we the residents of Poole are required to provide this site in law, that is not the case , there is nor requiremt in statute, this was rescinded at the start of the coalition Government and is no longer a requirement. Poole council has been working towards a transit site with other councils and Dorset County Council, for a central transit site in the county, and until those negotiations are complete the council should not even be considering wasting taxpayers hard earned money. This is a personal project of the mayor, just for electioneering purposes, well I think it has now backfired on him with sacking of Judy Butt, may as well remove your name from next years MP elections Mr Eades, you ain't got a cat in hells chance now.!! Judy Butt is one the most hardworking and respected Councillors in Poole, and as such deserves a lot more respect from the rest of the council, including the council leader and the mayor. At least she values her electorate, and knows a vast amount of them personally, how many other Councillors can say that !! Big Man 2
  • Score: 6

6:11pm Fri 14 Feb 14

davecraft says...

A councillor who acts and thinks of her electors, well done!
A councillor who acts and thinks of her electors, well done! davecraft
  • Score: 5

6:13pm Fri 14 Feb 14

ADST_2008 says...

A quick respone from the Leader to defend her poor decision I read above, the word *untenable* being used only by one person. Not a word from the other cabinet members or councilors on the subject I bet!
A quick respone from the Leader to defend her poor decision I read above, the word *untenable* being used only by one person. Not a word from the other cabinet members or councilors on the subject I bet! ADST_2008
  • Score: 2

6:22pm Fri 14 Feb 14

ADST_2008 says...

As I understand it Clr Butt was advising her residents only and not as suggested leading an attack against BOP over the TSP at Marshes end Creekmoor.
Please get the facts right.
As I understand it Clr Butt was advising her residents only and not as suggested leading an attack against BOP over the TSP at Marshes end Creekmoor. Please get the facts right. ADST_2008
  • Score: 0

6:29pm Fri 14 Feb 14

mimi55 says...

Big Man 2 wrote:
Jeff in Parkstone wrote:
There seems to be bandwagon here.

I have myself come out in support of Cllr Butt.

And posted a letter in support in Echo today.

However I have had an email from Cllr Atkinson.

The critcal point in that letter the point Cllr Butt's position had become *untenable*.

Meaning Judy could not continue as a cabinet Cllr supporting cabinet and council policy to put a transit site into Creekmoor, and work with residents actively opposing this policy.

That to me is understandable.

One large conflict of interests.

Judy was then given the opportunity to step down from cabinet and as a ward Cllr work with her residents opposing the site with then no conflcit of interest.

Clearly then a very upsetting decision for a hard working committed cabinet Cllr who put so much hard work into community project including trying to move forward the travellers' issue.

So the whole issue is not as clear cut as it seems at first.

Rather a very regretable situation all round. An extraordinary conflict between being a ward Cllr and being a cabinet Cllr.

Council and cabinet trying to work in the interest of the *whole borough* to set up a required transit site for travellers (as requried by national law), Cllr Butt ending up in her position as ward Cllr understandably suporting her residents and opposing the policy.

And irony of ironies Cllr Butt the one who in her position as Portfolio Holder of Communities the Cllr who took forward the travellers' issue to find a suitable site.

So no winners here is there. And I would say no baddies either. Just a very fraught situation.

If any lessons are to be learned it must be that there is a way to make ward Cllr responsibilties *ompatible*with cabinet porttfolio collective responsiblity.

There must be a way and this doesn't happen again. And indeed I would hope Cllr Butt resinstated to her position as a valued member of Cllr Atkinson's team.

Jeff Williams
Jeff you seem to be under the misconception that we the residents of Poole are required to provide this site in law, that is not the case , there is nor requiremt in statute, this was rescinded at the start of the coalition Government and is no longer a requirement.

Poole council has been working towards a transit site with other councils and Dorset County Council, for a central transit site in the county, and until those negotiations are complete the council should not even be considering wasting taxpayers hard earned money.

This is a personal project of the mayor, just for electioneering purposes, well I think it has now backfired on him with sacking of Judy Butt, may as well remove your name from next years MP elections Mr Eades, you ain't got a cat in hells chance now.!!

Judy Butt is one the most hardworking and respected Councillors in Poole, and as such deserves a lot more respect from the rest of the council, including the council leader and the mayor.

At least she values her electorate, and knows a vast amount of them personally, how many other Councillors can say that !!
Hear hear!
[quote][p][bold]Big Man 2[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Jeff in Parkstone[/bold] wrote: There seems to be bandwagon here. I have myself come out in support of Cllr Butt. And posted a letter in support in Echo today. However I have had an email from Cllr Atkinson. The critcal point in that letter the point Cllr Butt's position had become *untenable*. Meaning Judy could not continue as a cabinet Cllr supporting cabinet and council policy to put a transit site into Creekmoor, and work with residents actively opposing this policy. That to me is understandable. One large conflict of interests. Judy was then given the opportunity to step down from cabinet and as a ward Cllr work with her residents opposing the site with then no conflcit of interest. Clearly then a very upsetting decision for a hard working committed cabinet Cllr who put so much hard work into community project including trying to move forward the travellers' issue. So the whole issue is not as clear cut as it seems at first. Rather a very regretable situation all round. An extraordinary conflict between being a ward Cllr and being a cabinet Cllr. Council and cabinet trying to work in the interest of the *whole borough* to set up a required transit site for travellers (as requried by national law), Cllr Butt ending up in her position as ward Cllr understandably suporting her residents and opposing the policy. And irony of ironies Cllr Butt the one who in her position as Portfolio Holder of Communities the Cllr who took forward the travellers' issue to find a suitable site. So no winners here is there. And I would say no baddies either. Just a very fraught situation. If any lessons are to be learned it must be that there is a way to make ward Cllr responsibilties *ompatible*with cabinet porttfolio collective responsiblity. There must be a way and this doesn't happen again. And indeed I would hope Cllr Butt resinstated to her position as a valued member of Cllr Atkinson's team. Jeff Williams[/p][/quote]Jeff you seem to be under the misconception that we the residents of Poole are required to provide this site in law, that is not the case , there is nor requiremt in statute, this was rescinded at the start of the coalition Government and is no longer a requirement. Poole council has been working towards a transit site with other councils and Dorset County Council, for a central transit site in the county, and until those negotiations are complete the council should not even be considering wasting taxpayers hard earned money. This is a personal project of the mayor, just for electioneering purposes, well I think it has now backfired on him with sacking of Judy Butt, may as well remove your name from next years MP elections Mr Eades, you ain't got a cat in hells chance now.!! Judy Butt is one the most hardworking and respected Councillors in Poole, and as such deserves a lot more respect from the rest of the council, including the council leader and the mayor. At least she values her electorate, and knows a vast amount of them personally, how many other Councillors can say that !![/p][/quote]Hear hear! mimi55
  • Score: 2

6:37pm Fri 14 Feb 14

Carolyn43 says...

Judy Butt was doing her job on the cabinet by pointing out that this was not a suitable site for a large number of reasons, no matter where it was. Atkinson and co had already decided that this was where it was going to be that they wouldn't listen to any reasoned argument. The fact that they've hidden the planning application by not including any of the words 'travellers' 'gypsies', 'Creekmoor', 'transit' in the title shows that they intended to get the planning application through without anyone noticing. The fact that Judy was supporting her residents as well as demonstrating that it was the wrong site and showed integrity in refusing to keep the secret is an added bonus.
......
The Dorset CPRE has suggested that the site of the old power station could be used as a temporary site as it already has hard standing, and would be suitable while a permanent site is found or there is a change in the law. They are concerned that there could be environmental issues which haven't been investigated.
......
There is a huge error in the planning application which states that it will be surfaced with "Permeable 'nogging', comprising compacted shingle to a depth of 300 mm".
.....
I'd like to know how they propose to do that. "Nogging: an architectural term, may refer to: Brick nog, (nogged, nogging) term used for the filling in-between wall framing in buildings."
......
What they should have stated is hoggin. "Hoggin is a compactable groundcover that is composed of a mixture of clay, gravel, and sand or granite dust that produces a buff-coloured bound surface."
.......
If you or I put in a planning application with something so glaringly wrong, it would be thrown out and we'd have to reapply. Will that happen in this case? I bet not.
.......
Atkinson and co were in so much of a hurry to push this through, they couldn't be bothered to get it right.
Judy Butt was doing her job on the cabinet by pointing out that this was not a suitable site for a large number of reasons, no matter where it was. Atkinson and co had already decided that this was where it was going to be that they wouldn't listen to any reasoned argument. The fact that they've hidden the planning application by not including any of the words 'travellers' 'gypsies', 'Creekmoor', 'transit' in the title shows that they intended to get the planning application through without anyone noticing. The fact that Judy was supporting her residents as well as demonstrating that it was the wrong site and showed integrity in refusing to keep the secret is an added bonus. ...... The Dorset CPRE has suggested that the site of the old power station could be used as a temporary site as it already has hard standing, and would be suitable while a permanent site is found or there is a change in the law. They are concerned that there could be environmental issues which haven't been investigated. ...... There is a huge error in the planning application which states that it will be surfaced with "Permeable 'nogging', comprising compacted shingle to a depth of 300 mm". ..... I'd like to know how they propose to do that. "Nogging: an architectural term, may refer to: Brick nog, (nogged, nogging) term used for the filling in-between wall framing in buildings." ...... What they should have stated is hoggin. "Hoggin is a compactable groundcover that is composed of a mixture of clay, gravel, and sand or granite dust that produces a buff-coloured bound surface." ....... If you or I put in a planning application with something so glaringly wrong, it would be thrown out and we'd have to reapply. Will that happen in this case? I bet not. ....... Atkinson and co were in so much of a hurry to push this through, they couldn't be bothered to get it right. Carolyn43
  • Score: 6

6:42pm Fri 14 Feb 14

mimi55 says...

Carolyn43 wrote:
Judy Butt was doing her job on the cabinet by pointing out that this was not a suitable site for a large number of reasons, no matter where it was. Atkinson and co had already decided that this was where it was going to be that they wouldn't listen to any reasoned argument. The fact that they've hidden the planning application by not including any of the words 'travellers' 'gypsies', 'Creekmoor', 'transit' in the title shows that they intended to get the planning application through without anyone noticing. The fact that Judy was supporting her residents as well as demonstrating that it was the wrong site and showed integrity in refusing to keep the secret is an added bonus.
......
The Dorset CPRE has suggested that the site of the old power station could be used as a temporary site as it already has hard standing, and would be suitable while a permanent site is found or there is a change in the law. They are concerned that there could be environmental issues which haven't been investigated.
......
There is a huge error in the planning application which states that it will be surfaced with "Permeable 'nogging', comprising compacted shingle to a depth of 300 mm".
.....
I'd like to know how they propose to do that. "Nogging: an architectural term, may refer to: Brick nog, (nogged, nogging) term used for the filling in-between wall framing in buildings."
......
What they should have stated is hoggin. "Hoggin is a compactable groundcover that is composed of a mixture of clay, gravel, and sand or granite dust that produces a buff-coloured bound surface."
.......
If you or I put in a planning application with something so glaringly wrong, it would be thrown out and we'd have to reapply. Will that happen in this case? I bet not.
.......
Atkinson and co were in so much of a hurry to push this through, they couldn't be bothered to get it right.
Very well put. The Council seem hell bent on wasting money, as if they
hadn't wasted enough on the Creekmoor 'park and ride'. I'll be reminding
the electors of all this in May 2015!
[quote][p][bold]Carolyn43[/bold] wrote: Judy Butt was doing her job on the cabinet by pointing out that this was not a suitable site for a large number of reasons, no matter where it was. Atkinson and co had already decided that this was where it was going to be that they wouldn't listen to any reasoned argument. The fact that they've hidden the planning application by not including any of the words 'travellers' 'gypsies', 'Creekmoor', 'transit' in the title shows that they intended to get the planning application through without anyone noticing. The fact that Judy was supporting her residents as well as demonstrating that it was the wrong site and showed integrity in refusing to keep the secret is an added bonus. ...... The Dorset CPRE has suggested that the site of the old power station could be used as a temporary site as it already has hard standing, and would be suitable while a permanent site is found or there is a change in the law. They are concerned that there could be environmental issues which haven't been investigated. ...... There is a huge error in the planning application which states that it will be surfaced with "Permeable 'nogging', comprising compacted shingle to a depth of 300 mm". ..... I'd like to know how they propose to do that. "Nogging: an architectural term, may refer to: Brick nog, (nogged, nogging) term used for the filling in-between wall framing in buildings." ...... What they should have stated is hoggin. "Hoggin is a compactable groundcover that is composed of a mixture of clay, gravel, and sand or granite dust that produces a buff-coloured bound surface." ....... If you or I put in a planning application with something so glaringly wrong, it would be thrown out and we'd have to reapply. Will that happen in this case? I bet not. ....... Atkinson and co were in so much of a hurry to push this through, they couldn't be bothered to get it right.[/p][/quote]Very well put. The Council seem hell bent on wasting money, as if they hadn't wasted enough on the Creekmoor 'park and ride'. I'll be reminding the electors of all this in May 2015! mimi55
  • Score: 4

7:38pm Fri 14 Feb 14

kalebmoledirt says...

Judy you have support,but not if you choose to settle for tourist class on the Titanic.
Judy you have support,but not if you choose to settle for tourist class on the Titanic. kalebmoledirt
  • Score: 1

8:05pm Fri 14 Feb 14

apm1954 says...

time atkinson and eades went i suggest.
time atkinson and eades went i suggest. apm1954
  • Score: 6

8:22pm Fri 14 Feb 14

ADST_2008 says...

kalebmoledirt wrote:
Judy you have support,but not if you choose to settle for tourist class on the Titanic.
Support....None !. I am afraid the group wll I predeict rally around the leader.
[quote][p][bold]kalebmoledirt[/bold] wrote: Judy you have support,but not if you choose to settle for tourist class on the Titanic.[/p][/quote]Support....None !. I am afraid the group wll I predeict rally around the leader. ADST_2008
  • Score: -1

8:31pm Fri 14 Feb 14

Carolyn43 says...

ADST_2008 wrote:
kalebmoledirt wrote:
Judy you have support,but not if you choose to settle for tourist class on the Titanic.
Support....None !. I am afraid the group wll I predeict rally around the leader.
Only because they're scared for their jobs and adoption by their respective parties for the next election, not because of their convictions or concern for the residents of Poole.
[quote][p][bold]ADST_2008[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]kalebmoledirt[/bold] wrote: Judy you have support,but not if you choose to settle for tourist class on the Titanic.[/p][/quote]Support....None !. I am afraid the group wll I predeict rally around the leader.[/p][/quote]Only because they're scared for their jobs and adoption by their respective parties for the next election, not because of their convictions or concern for the residents of Poole. Carolyn43
  • Score: 0

8:33pm Fri 14 Feb 14

kalebmoledirt says...

ADST_2008 wrote:
kalebmoledirt wrote:
Judy you have support,but not if you choose to settle for tourist class on the Titanic.
Support....None !. I am afraid the group wll I predeict rally around the leader.
I was thinking if she jumped off the Titanic and joined UKIP
[quote][p][bold]ADST_2008[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]kalebmoledirt[/bold] wrote: Judy you have support,but not if you choose to settle for tourist class on the Titanic.[/p][/quote]Support....None !. I am afraid the group wll I predeict rally around the leader.[/p][/quote]I was thinking if she jumped off the Titanic and joined UKIP kalebmoledirt
  • Score: -1

8:36pm Fri 14 Feb 14

kalebmoledirt says...

ADST_2008 wrote:
kalebmoledirt wrote:
Judy you have support,but not if you choose to settle for tourist class on the Titanic.
Support....None !. I am afraid the group wll I predeict rally around the leader.
I was thinking if she jumped off the Titanic and joined UKIP
[quote][p][bold]ADST_2008[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]kalebmoledirt[/bold] wrote: Judy you have support,but not if you choose to settle for tourist class on the Titanic.[/p][/quote]Support....None !. I am afraid the group wll I predeict rally around the leader.[/p][/quote]I was thinking if she jumped off the Titanic and joined UKIP kalebmoledirt
  • Score: 0

1:04am Sat 15 Feb 14

Marty Caine UKIP says...

Cllr Judy Butt is the type of councillor that will always put people before party and that is how a councillor should be but this is not acceptable behaviour for Conservatives, Lib Dems or Labour, they must toe the party line. UKIP councillors do not have the same decision making problems and insist they work in the best interest of their constituents, which is probably why Romsey a UKIP run council is doing so well.

Though in saying that this decision is not a party policy decision is it, its a group of bullies flexing their muscles and what has happened to Cllr Judy Butt is nothing short of disgusting, though Cllr Elaine Atkinson may well be leader the decision to sack Judy was certainly not hers alone. It was a clear vindictive move by those in favour of the transit site and I think they should all hang their heads in shame.

It was around this time last year that Poole People were calling for Cllr Atkinson's resignation after she failed to raise Council tax unnecessarily. You get what you vote for I suppose.
Cllr Judy Butt is the type of councillor that will always put people before party and that is how a councillor should be but this is not acceptable behaviour for Conservatives, Lib Dems or Labour, they must toe the party line. UKIP councillors do not have the same decision making problems and insist they work in the best interest of their constituents, which is probably why Romsey a UKIP run council is doing so well. Though in saying that this decision is not a party policy decision is it, its a group of bullies flexing their muscles and what has happened to Cllr Judy Butt is nothing short of disgusting, though Cllr Elaine Atkinson may well be leader the decision to sack Judy was certainly not hers alone. It was a clear vindictive move by those in favour of the transit site and I think they should all hang their heads in shame. It was around this time last year that Poole People were calling for Cllr Atkinson's resignation after she failed to raise Council tax unnecessarily. You get what you vote for I suppose. Marty Caine UKIP
  • Score: 2

3:33am Sat 15 Feb 14

portia6 says...

Maybe we should ask a Labour mp what the solution is?
Maybe we should ask a Labour mp what the solution is? portia6
  • Score: 1

10:56am Sat 15 Feb 14

Avengerboy says...

portia6 wrote:
Maybe we should ask a Labour mp what the solution is?
Tories are in power, Tories took away the original sites around the country ....let's ask the Tories!
[quote][p][bold]portia6[/bold] wrote: Maybe we should ask a Labour mp what the solution is?[/p][/quote]Tories are in power, Tories took away the original sites around the country ....let's ask the Tories! Avengerboy
  • Score: -1

11:26am Sat 15 Feb 14

Avengerboy says...

Nimby councillors.
Nimby councillors. Avengerboy
  • Score: 1

11:32am Sat 15 Feb 14

Avengerboy says...

Short memories.
http://www.bournemou
thecho.co.uk/news/46
89357.Poole_councill
or_didn_t_get_planni
ng_permission_before
_extending_driveway_
___and_she_s_on_the_
planning_committee_/
Short memories. http://www.bournemou thecho.co.uk/news/46 89357.Poole_councill or_didn_t_get_planni ng_permission_before _extending_driveway_ ___and_she_s_on_the_ planning_committee_/ Avengerboy
  • Score: -2

6:35pm Sat 15 Feb 14

Carolyn43 says...

Avengerboy wrote:
Short memories.
http://www.bournemou

thecho.co.uk/news/46

89357.Poole_councill

or_didn_t_get_planni

ng_permission_before

_extending_driveway_

___and_she_s_on_the_

planning_committee_/
So you drag up something from 5 years ago to try prove a point. I assume you've never made a mistake. Get on with polishing your halo.
......
Unlike most councillors, she actually listens to her residents and acts on their behalf.
[quote][p][bold]Avengerboy[/bold] wrote: Short memories. http://www.bournemou thecho.co.uk/news/46 89357.Poole_councill or_didn_t_get_planni ng_permission_before _extending_driveway_ ___and_she_s_on_the_ planning_committee_/[/p][/quote]So you drag up something from 5 years ago to try prove a point. I assume you've never made a mistake. Get on with polishing your halo. ...... Unlike most councillors, she actually listens to her residents and acts on their behalf. Carolyn43
  • Score: 1

2:41pm Sun 16 Feb 14

ADST_2008 says...

Rather than sacking the leader, I feel as a resident we should take a more balanced view, perhaps a smack on the wrists for Clr. Butt and a temporary 4 weeks suspension from here position and that is all , as she is so good for Poole and Creekmoor!
Rather than sacking the leader, I feel as a resident we should take a more balanced view, perhaps a smack on the wrists for Clr. Butt and a temporary 4 weeks suspension from here position and that is all , as she is so good for Poole and Creekmoor! ADST_2008
  • Score: 1

2:50pm Sun 16 Feb 14

ADST_2008 says...

Avengerboy wrote:
Short memories.
http://www.bournemou

thecho.co.uk/news/46

89357.Poole_councill

or_didn_t_get_planni

ng_permission_before

_extending_driveway_

___and_she_s_on_the_

planning_committee_/
Any more dirt you can dig up? Grasping at straws me thinks....
[quote][p][bold]Avengerboy[/bold] wrote: Short memories. http://www.bournemou thecho.co.uk/news/46 89357.Poole_councill or_didn_t_get_planni ng_permission_before _extending_driveway_ ___and_she_s_on_the_ planning_committee_/[/p][/quote]Any more dirt you can dig up? Grasping at straws me thinks.... ADST_2008
  • Score: 1

3:52pm Sun 16 Feb 14

Bandit3 says...

Lets get rid of of Elaine Akinson. She is a bully & should put her own house in order first ! ! ! !
Lets get rid of of Elaine Akinson. She is a bully & should put her own house in order first ! ! ! ! Bandit3
  • Score: 2

11:00pm Sun 16 Feb 14

cyberbob45 says...

They should change the law in regards to sacking Cllr Judy Butt as she has no rights as a Councillor ! Which is mad at the end of the day !

Its a job like any other and if Councillors had protection by Employment Act 2008 then Cllr Judy Butt wouldn't of been sacked nor kicked out for protecting her residents !

I think that Cllr Judy Butt should have rights like any other person in any other job !!!!!
They should change the law in regards to sacking Cllr Judy Butt as she has no rights as a Councillor ! Which is mad at the end of the day ! Its a job like any other and if Councillors had protection by Employment Act 2008 then Cllr Judy Butt wouldn't of been sacked nor kicked out for protecting her residents ! I think that Cllr Judy Butt should have rights like any other person in any other job !!!!! cyberbob45
  • Score: 1

7:16am Mon 17 Feb 14

Marty Caine UKIP says...

John T wrote:
calamity carney wrote:
dustbindanny wrote:
So much for democracy,! Welcome to North Korean Politics,,People of Poole with Honourable Leader Atkinson!
Looks like a witch hunt is going on now!
Do you mean Councillor Dion is being head-hunted to be the next Leader of Poole Council?
God save us from Councillor Dion and UKIP!
Why save you from UKIP? Unlike Lab/Con/Lib UKIP does not force its councillors to toe a party line and councillors are encouraged to work in the interests of their constituents, maybe you need to stop believing in all the smear campaigns against UKIP and start asking yourself why they are happening in the first place. You might actually find out it is partly because UKIP want to reduce central government and give greater powers to local authorities and the political elite don't like that idea.
[quote][p][bold]John T[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]calamity carney[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]dustbindanny[/bold] wrote: So much for democracy,! Welcome to North Korean Politics,,People of Poole with Honourable Leader Atkinson![/p][/quote]Looks like a witch hunt is going on now![/p][/quote]Do you mean Councillor Dion is being head-hunted to be the next Leader of Poole Council? God save us from Councillor Dion and UKIP![/p][/quote]Why save you from UKIP? Unlike Lab/Con/Lib UKIP does not force its councillors to toe a party line and councillors are encouraged to work in the interests of their constituents, maybe you need to stop believing in all the smear campaigns against UKIP and start asking yourself why they are happening in the first place. You might actually find out it is partly because UKIP want to reduce central government and give greater powers to local authorities and the political elite don't like that idea. Marty Caine UKIP
  • Score: -1

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